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Home » Pelosi and the 25th

Pelosi and the 25th

The New Neo Posted on by

We knew this was coming:

…[N]now House Democrats are toying with attempting to invoke the 25th amendment to remove Trump from office since he tested positive for COVID-19. Or so they say.

Trump’s response:

I think Trump should say to Pelosi: “You first, Nancy. You first.”

Comments

Pelosi and the 25th — 39 Comments

  1. President Trump is correct: This trial balloon by Speaker Pelosi is intended to have the mechanism in place to declare Biden, if he’s elected, unfit for office — which he is. It’s unlikely that a majority of the cabinet will declare Biden unfit, but the Congress will.

    Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

    — 25th Amendment, Section 4

    The election is a bait and switch: elect Biden and Harris becomes President.
    What will be her program? We have to elect a Biden-Harris administration to find out what’s in it.

  3. I saw a tweet on the night of the VP debate that stated that when Trump tested positive VP Pence probably sincerely prayed for his recovery but if President Biden as much as coughed VP Harris would put a pillow over his face in a second.

  5. Did you hear Trump on Rush Limbaugh for two hours this afternoon? He should do this twice a week up to the election. He needs more ways (in addition to tweeting) to be able to speak his mind and explain what he’s doing and why he’s doing it, unfiltered through the MSM bias and TDS.

  6. I was texting with young relative the night of the VP debate and she is a big Trump fan and was going on about how she absolutely hates Kamala Harris. More than Hillary interestingly.

    Being older and far more pessimistic I pointed out that Harris will probably be president for 11 years so there is that to look forward to.

  7. }}} I saw a tweet on the night of the VP debate that stated that when Trump tested positive VP Pence probably sincerely prayed for his recovery but if President Biden as much as coughed VP Harris would put a pillow over his face in a second.

    Stolen. LOLZ.

  8. }}} Being older and far more pessimistic I pointed out that Harris will probably be president for 11 years so there is that to look forward to.

    This assumes Biden has 2 good years left. I don’t see that as likely.

    If Harris serves more than 2y of Biden’s elected term, that is treated as a full term of her two allowed by the law.

    For one more thing, I don’t think Harris has that much patience.

    In the United States, the president of the United States is elected indirectly through the United States Electoral College to a four-year term, with a term limit of two terms (totaling eight years) or a maximum of ten years if the president acted as president for two years or less in a term where another was elected as president, imposed by the Twenty-second Amendment to the United States Constitution, ratified in 1951.

  9. OBloodyHell, I think Kamala would get her eyes scratched out by Dr. Jill Biden within microseconds of trying that. Jill has got to be hyper-ambitious to be willing to put Joe through this. She probably dreams of reprising the part of Edith Wilson, who was the actual president while ol’ Woodrow lay in a coma in the White House.

  10. While Trump is President, this has no chance whatsoever of passing.

    Pelosi is throwing a political bone to the dem’s radical base.

    “It’s unlikely that a majority of the cabinet will declare Biden unfit… rcat

    I think the powers behind the scenes are planning on it. Biden will be ‘maneuvered’ into picking whom they want for his cabinet. No one unwilling to get with the program will be allowed to sit on that cabinet.

  11. No, I’m not about to join the ranks of Montage here, . . . but . . .

    in my judgment, *any* president, be s/he Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Socialist, Green, Whig, whatever . . .

    *any* president, be s/he Trump, Obama, Biden, Hillary, AOC, whoever, . . .

    *any* president who is taking medications that potentially induce mood swings or other alterations to personality,

    *any* such president, needs to step down (or be compelled to step down) under Amendment 25 and let the vice president ermmm, *preside* until the effects of those medications have clearly subsided.

    Nuclear war and all that . . .

    This should not be controversial (but of course it will be).

  12. M J R:

    Sorry, but that doesn’t make sense.

    First of all, the list of side effects on most medications is long, and that includes very common medications. For example, antidepressants or blood pressure meds – or really, as I said, virtually any medication – can cause mood swings or suicidal thoughts or any number of strange reactions. And yet millions upon millions of people – the vast majority of people who take them – are fine while taking them.

    In addition, people can have mood swings while taking nothing at all. Or they can even have psychotic breaks, or other illnesses that can cause changes in mood or cognition.

    As with anything else involving a president’s health, the only thing to pay attention to is the behavior of the president. Is he or she acting way out of line from his or her usual, or not? And it has to be markedly so. We don’t take presidential powers away pre-emptively because of a possible side effect of a medication!

  13. I read that the House adjourns (today?), not to return till 2021.
    Thus, Nancy’s 25th Am ploy is pure theater.

    Or, it could very well be aimed at Joe.

  15. OBloodyHell,

    Thanks for the info I didn’t realize a president couldn’t serve for more than 10 years. The example I’m most familiar with was Theodore Roosevelt who served three after McKinleys death then a full term and always kicked himself for not running in 1908. Obviously before the 22nd amendment.

    So we will only get 7 years of Harris. Woo hoo!!

  16. Need to research options for removing Speaker.

    Griffin, I demur. The American people, including I imagine the DNC, would be so sick of Harris that I question whether she could win an election on her own.

    For instance, she currently cites her experience as Attorney General of California; and can do that because it is largely hidden. Not a pretty picture.

    Right now she is barely known outside of California. But, I think she would make Hillary look charming. By that I suggest that she has many of HRC’s personal traits, plus she is quick on the draw with the race card.

    I really believer that the race card is fast passing its “sell by” date.

  17. Re: Medications. Trump said, on Limbaugh’s show today, that he’s not taking anything any more.

  18. Oldflyer,

    Maybe but the media will make her out to be the greatest most awesomest President non stop and whoever would go against her would obviously be a total racist and sexist.

  19. I must admit that I find the idea of this proposal as a setup to take not Trump, but Biden out of the big chair pretty clever. Kind of jarring that someone like Pelosi should still have any interest in even pretending to care about “da Konstatooshun” at this point – I mean, really, everyone in her corner would surely just say “yeah, whatever, girl, just get it done.” Who does she think she’s impressing, or to whom is she selling this? Maybe to give SCOTUS a fig leaf down the road, I guess. Still, pretty clever.

  20. Trump’s response is why so many (myself included) just love Trump. He doesn’t just not tolerate BS; he calls people out on it

  21. Absolutely insane.

    I will throw out these questions into the ether:

    Is this the behavior of a leader confident her party is on the precipice of a large victory? Or is it the raving of someone increasingly worried that, despite the echo chamber of ever more insistent assurances of a Democrat sweep, that maybe, just maybe, her party’s prospects are not all that rosy?

    Is it subliminally about Biden? I don’t know, although that would make more sense. It still would be quite bizarre to casually suggest such a maneuver whether directed at the President or the (“absolutely certain to be, it’s all over, polls are infallible, ‘shut up, you racist troglodyte!’ if you disagree, plus ‘COVID, MASKS, SCIENCE!!!!!!(tm)”) future “President-elect”. A ‘dog whistle’ to the leftist base…”don’t worry, we will consign the senile old twit to a padded room in the basement of the White House shortly after the inauguration…and then, progressive orgy 2021!…Just get out and vote!”? Again, maybe?

    Is Nancy just senile and unhinged, herself? Probably.

    But, I read a certain level of panic into this. I think there’s a realization that…perhaps the electorate isn’t as in love with the Democrats, and as browbeaten into the MSM narrative, as the latter smugly believes. What then?

    Just my opinion.

  22. A commenter at LI linked this post –
    https://www.breitbart.com/health/2020/10/09/kevin-mccarthy-house-members-seeking-path-determine-nancy-pelosis-mental-health/

    McCarthy said it is the Speaker’s mental well-being that is in question given her idea to try to oust the president less than a month before the general election.

    “To even bring this up when you’re talking 27 days before an election,” McCarthy said. “You know she’s second in line right after the vice president.”

    “It really brings into question her own mental capacity to be Speaker of the House,” McCarthy said, adding that Pelosi should be held to the same standard that she’s demanding Trump meet.

    “Are you going to recommend the same commission take a look at her mental capacity?” Levin asked. “Does she have to submit any kind of records about her health? Mental health?”

    “If she’s now saying they should have a commission to do that with the president?” McCarthy responded. “Shouldn’t you do that with all three people who are in line for the presidency?

    “Shouldn’t she have to submit to the same test that she’s trying to claim?” McCarthy said, adding that he doesn’t think she would survive such scrutiny.

    “I am getting together with a number of members — and can tell you there are people on the other side that have raised this question as well,” McCarthy said. “We’re going to get together; find out ways that we can craft something.”

    McCarthy noted that it takes a two-thirds vote in both the House and the Senate to remove a president under the 25th Amendment.

    “She knows this will not be a reality,” McCarthy said. “This is just another attempt to attack our democracy.”

    Since there IS still an election in progress, this should be noted:
    https://www.breitbart.com/2020-election/2020/10/09/commission-presidential-debates-cancels-oct-15-debate/

    They claim the Oct 22 debate is still on the schedule, but it won’t continue to be if they pull another stunt like the last one, changing the format to virtual without even consulting Trump’s campaign.

    A spokesman for which said: “There’s nothing that says that President Trump and Joe Biden can’t debate together without the overlords at the commission having a say in the matter. We would be glad to debate one-on-one without the commission’s interference.”

    Works for me.

    (PS if you read a story about the partisan journalist formerly known as debate moderator Scully Tweeting disgraced former official Scaramucci for advice, ignore it – he claims he was hacked. No, really.)

  23. “I read a certain level of panic into this. I think there’s a realization that…perhaps the electorate isn’t as in love with the Democrats, and as browbeaten into the MSM narrative, as the latter smugly believes.” – Ackler

    Charles Hurt agrees with you – read his long list of “tells” and see if you agree with those.

    https://www.breitbart.com/2020-election/2020/10/09/charles-hurt-if-the-democrats-are-really-so-far-ahead-why-are-they-acting-so-desperate/

  24. This worries me more than Pelosi’s machinations do – because Biden has to win for her scheme to work, and we know the Democrats are not averse to fraud.

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/10/09/left-recruits-600k-poll-workers-to-ensure-fair-election/

    In light of the COVID-19 pandemic, this November’s election will be critically different from previous ones in that polling stations throughout the U.S. will be managed by inexperienced, first-time volunteers and workers, some as young as 16, due to the absence of many older, experienced poll workers. These workers will also be charged with rapidly processing results to avoid an extended period of tabulation and most will be tasked to supervise and manage in-person voting in battleground states.

    That many of them are recruited by and associated with left-wing activist networks, groups and individuals who are desperately pushing a Biden win, is even more cause for concern.

    Though the initiative claims to be non-partisan, it has cooperated almost exclusively with the left, even incorporating leftist messaging, including Black Lives Matter imagery as well as references to George Floyd, throughout its posts.

    President Trump, concerned that Democrats could use various means to “steal the election,” has urged supporters “to go into the polls and watch very carefully.”

    True the Vote is working on the Right side of the street, because any organization that is not explicitly Left Wing can benefit the Right, even if it is formally non-partisan (which I believe they are; it’s just that unbiased election integrity favors Republicans these days).

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/10/breaking-true-vote-requests-supreme-court-consider-montana-mail-vote-lawsuit-legal-standard-country/

    Catherine Engelbrecht is the Founder and President of True The Vote the nation’s largest voters’ rights group.

    The organization for over ten years now has been on the front lines of election fraud prevention by building action-oriented election integrity movements in key states, counties, and precincts. ‘True the Vote’ does not advocate for particular parties or candidates only for fair elections at all levels

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/09/must-see-video-true-vote-founder-catherine-engelbrecht-can-next-44-days-save-election-trump/

    The voter rights organization was so successful that True the Vote and its founder Catherine Engelbrecht, were targeted by top federal government agencies including the IRS, DOJ, FBI, ATF, OSHA by the Obama regime. Under the Obama Administration, those agencies launched 23 audits, investigations, and inquiries, persistently attacking the patriotic group. Engelbrecht and her organization were harassed by the Obama IRS for months. The Obama IRS wanted to know Facebook posts, tweets and where Catherine intended to speak.

    In June 2019, after nearly a decade-long battle against the IRS, True the Vote won a major decision in federal court and was awarded maximum attorney fees.
    …
    Go to True the Vote and find our local election official offices. VOLUNTEER TODAY! True the Vote has the complete county list on who to call, what to say. This year just voting IS NOT ENOUGH!

    Catherine Engelbrecht: “We need everyone who can serve, to serve!”

    We will continue our discussion with Catherine in the coming days so that the Trump Army is prepared for the corruption the left is planning for November.

    TtV is non-partisan (probably), but Jim Hoft definitely is not — so his rhetoric is part of what is triggering responses like this:
    https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2020/10/09/msnbcs-jason-johnson-trump-raising-an-illegal-white-nationalist-terrorist-army/

    Anchor Nicolle Wallace said, “I think what the foiled plot against Gretchen Whitmer maybe makes real is that the tweets are acted upon sometimes. Whether they’re cause and effect, I think that’s a question only law enforcement can answer, but there are dots that can be connected between the things he says and the things bad people do. I want to read you this from Politico. ‘Trump campaign ready to unleash thousands of poll watchers on election day. The campaign has established what it says is a 50,000 plus army of volunteer observers across an array of battleground states like North Carolina and Pennsylvania where operations are already underway. Poll watchers monitor everything from voting machines to the processing of ballots to checking voter ID. They’re not permitted to interact directly with voters, but they can relay problems to local election officials or campaign higher-ups.’ Now there is sort of a civic piece of poll watchers and some history of it, but that is not the vain [sic] in which Donald Trump is talking about a 50,000-plus army, is it?”

    Johnson said, “No, no, and that’s very much connected to what we saw in Michigan this week. The president is raising an illegal white nationalist terrorist army that he wants to go out there and intimidate people, so we have both the legal and the extra-legal. From the legal standpoint, we see things like what just happened in Wisconsin where the Milwaukee Bucks had actually agreed with NBA players to turn their arena into a polling station that will be useful during the pandemic, and then they had to shut it down because Republicans said, ‘Well it’s technically past the deadline so any ballots that are in that location if you vote there, will invalidate everything at that polling station.’”

    “We will see wholesale attempts to invalidate where people have voted by the hundreds and thousands,” Johnson continued. “Then you’ve got militia poll workers going out there. Here’s what’s key about what happened this week. It’s not just that Gretchen Whitmer was obviously protected, and this plot was foiled, but it’s intimidating local people, intimidating a county commissioner, it’s intimidating a local election official. The fact that you’ve got these white nationalist groups—Gretchen Whitmer has a lot of protection that your local board is not going to have. If someone throws a molotov cocktail into my house, and I live in Maricopa County, Arizona, I may not go to work the next day, or I may be intimidated into not making the right decision.”

    Trump is unleashing terrorist poll watchers, but Democrats are maintaining election integrity.
    Got it.

    BONUS question: How is an”illegal white nationalist terrorist army that he wants to go out there and intimidate people” different from the New Black Panthers in 2007?
    They aren’t being protected by the AG and President.

  25. Aesop,

    I agree with everything Hurt said in that post. Most importantly…vote and work hard to get out the vote.

    But nothing coming from the Democrats indicates any kind of confidence or even, practical, cautious optimism. They’re unhinged, and the higher on the echelon one goes, the more unhinged they appear. Unhinged doesn’t mean ignorant or clueless, however. They may have a rational basis for such behavior. Indeed, I’m fairly certain they do.

    Trump remains steady, stable and focused. Given his debate performance, so does Pence. We would do well to follow their lead.

    I have said it before, but I will repeat: Trump is going to win by 2-3% in the popular vote, and between 315-350 electoral votes. I have held that position since “Slow Joe” was anointed the Democrat nominee-to-be, and nothing, absolutely nothing, of the endless stream of”breaking” news events since then has significantly affected my conclusion. I don’t care if seven score of new polls show Biden winning by 145% and sweeping every state with Democrats winning 400 seats in the House.

    Trump is going to win. Easily

  26. Meanwhile:

    –“AG Barr Says No Durham Report Before the Election”
    https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/rick-moran/2020/10/09/ag-barr-says-no-durham-report-before-the-election-n1026639

    The article offers some blah-blah about no-wine-before-its-time, but unless one has rock-solid confidence in a Trump victory, then there is a decent chance Biden wins and you’ve got to know all that work ends up burned, bleach-bit’d or in that mammoth warehouse at the end of “Raiders of the Lost Ark.”

    If that’s OK with Barr and Durham, I’ve got to wonder how serious they have been all along.

    Even if their case isn’t as good as they would like it — due to all the slow-walking and passive-aggression — the information would still be out there for the public and likely have some negative effect on Biden’s chances. Which is good enough for me.

  27. Steven Hayward mansplains Pelosi’s plan with a unique insight and the 25th Amendment in a flowchart.

    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/10/the-25th-for-the-250th-time.php

    News out today is that Nancy Pelosi wants to establish a commission that would evaluate the fitness of a President under the terms of Section 4 of the 25th Amendment:
    …
    Of course, talking about using the 25th Amendment to get rid of Trump began the day after the election in 2016, but notice one key point: It requires the active cooperation of the Vice President, and there’s little chance Mike Pence would go along with this intrigue even if the commission consisted only of Adam Schiff and Jerry Nadler.

    But I wonder if that would be equally true of the very ambitious Vice President Kamala Harris? Maybe Pelosi is using Trump as a stalking horse to get an early start on replacing Biden in six months if he wins the election? This is what “Lucretia” and I consider at length last weekend. If you set up a commission, it could help get around the loyalty of a cabinet.

  28. Doc Zero docsplains Pelosi.

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1314583881262272513.html

    I don’t understand the need for elaborate theories that Pelosi is wasting America’s time with this wackadoo 25th Amendment stuff because she’s setting up some elaborate plan to replace Biden with Harris after the election.

    This is what Nancy Pelosi DOES. She thinks nothing of wasting the time and money of the American people on dingbat political stunts.
    …[reprises the list we all know]

    She has no conscience or remorse whatsoever about doing stuff like this.
    …
    So no, she doesn’t need some big plan to swap Biden for Harris. The Dems wouldn’t embarrass themselves that way. Biden will just say he’s not feeling well and resign, or his family will do it for him, if he’s no longer capable of bowing out himself. No 25A hijinks needed.

    Pelosi is wasting America’s time and money on this stupid stunt solely and entirely because she thinks it will embarrass Trump. She knows the same servile media that let her slide on the Royal Hair Salon garbage will carry her water and print the stories she wants.

  29. Yes AesopFan, this is very unlikely to apply to Trump because it requires the approval of the VP no matter what Congress does, and Pence is loyal. Harris on the other hand …

  30. Just commented over at PowerLine, quoting the 25th:

    or of such other body as Congress may by law provide

    So Nancy would have to get a bill past the Senate and survive a Presidential veto to create any substitute for the Cabinet.

    This is a stunt.

  32. HRC was the vampiric cabal Chosen One. Kama is just the replacement.

    Jo is just the mule they ride into the gates.

  33. I agree it’s a stunt. This would have to pass the House and the Senate. If the Dems get the Senate, however, and get rid of the filibuster, then they could do it.

    Vote Republican as if your life depends on it. It just might.

  34. Although I now recall that the 25th Amendment requires a 2/3 vote of both House and Senate to remove the President.

    Stunt. But think of the message: Democrats are plotting to remove the guy they want you to vote for.

  36. Bryan Lovely:

    The 25th Amendment begins “Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide . . .” Authority is primarily and specifically provided to the Executive branch: The Vice President and the officers of the executive departments. The catch-all phrase “or such other body as Congress may by law provide” violates the rules of statutory construction (and separation of powers) were it deemed to grant to the Legislative branch a power which the preceding language has clearly granted solely to the Executive branch. Even were it so deemed, it is not at all clear whether said “body” must be pre-existing, or if that phrase gave Congress the authority to create such “body.” The only possible Constitutional provision for such power would be Article 1, Section 8 where Congress is given the authority “To constitute tribunals inferior to the supreme court,” and even then it would require stretching the term “tribunals” beyond its clear meaning.

  37. Cap’n Rusty —

    Good point. So if Congress set up some sort of new commission in lieu of the Cabinet it would have to go to the Supreme Court for interpretation as well, which one hopes would reject the argument that the President basically serves at the pleasure of Congress. One more hurdle. Looking even stuntier.

  38. Akler,
    I think Pelosi should undergo scans for botox brain disorder. She is the one who gave the squad positions on important committees and wouldn’t condemn Ilhan Omar’s anti-Semitic remarks. She let AOC become an important voice for the party. The only part of her brain that seems to be working is the one that likes power.
    Botox Brain Nancy definitely needs a checkup.

  39. “So if Congress set up some sort of new commission in lieu of the Cabinet it would have to go to the Supreme Court for interpretation as well, which one hopes would reject the argument that the President basically serves at the pleasure of Congress.” – Bryan

    Hence the absolute necessity of confirming Barrett immediately if not sooner.

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