Rick Perry, student
Rick Perry has not yet formally announced his candidacy for the Republican nomination in 2012, although most people are pretty sure he will run. But early though it may be, we already have his college transcripts, which were published at HuffPo via “a source in Texas.”
I guess the intrepid HuffPo detectives have no “sources” in Hawaii, Los Angeles, New York City, or Boston, because in the four and a half years since Obama formally announced his candidacy in February of 2007, we have yet to see a single grade of his from Punahou, Occidental, Columbia, or Harvard Law.
Not that I much care what grades any of them got. I actually do not think that college grades matter for much of anything except academia, or to indicate that one is a scholarly sort of person (and I say this as just that sort of person, possessing uniformly excellent college grades from stellar institutions—except for integral calculus at the college level, which I failed). I just don’t see that much of a connection between college grades and what we might call Real Life.
Perry might be suffering from the Student Anxiety Dream right about now—you know, the one where you’re at an exam and you find you’re sweating bullets because you suddenly realize you haven’t studied and you know you’re going to flunk, even though you’re all grown up now and haven’t been in school for decades? Even though your accomplishments since school might be quite impressive?
Some of those mocking Perry for his grades also point out that the school he received them from, Texas A&M, is hardly Harvard. True enough–but it’s probably more difficult to get a good grade at the former than the latter, with its rampant grade inflation. In addition, Perry is sixty-one years old (that was a surprise to me; he looks mighty good for his age). You young whippersnappers may not realize that when he attended college a “C” was a far more respectable grade than it is now. Perry also seems to have taken a lot of heavy-duty science courses, known far and wide as a generally more difficult and labor-intensive course of study than a concentration in the humanities.
Not that Perry was a big scholar. Clearly, he was not. And just as clearly, he (and others) should be evaluated on his job performance since then, and what he intends to do if he were to be elected president.
[NOTE: I hardly knew a thing about Texas A&M before this, but I looked it up in Wiki, and it’s a well-respected university:
In the 2011 U.S. News and World Report ranking of public universities, Texas A&M is listed 22nd; among “national universities” the school tied for 63rd place…In 2009 the National Science Foundation has recognized Texas A&M as one of the top 20 research institutions.
Internationally, the university is also well-regarded. Newsweek International ranked Texas A&M as the 77th university globally on the basis of “openness and diversity” as well as “distinction in research”. In a comparison of educational quality, faculty quality, and research output, Shanghai Jiao Tong University ranked Texas A&M 53rd in the Americas and 88th internationally. The Times Higher Education Supplement listed Texas A&M 60th among the world’s top 100 technology universities, 24th among America’s top biomedicine universities, and 50th among North America’s top 50 universities.
Not too shabby. Any graduates here care to defend your alma mater?]
Neo:
Looks like Perry was heading initially for a Pre-veterinarian major until (chuckle, chuckle) Organic Chemistry reared its gorgeous head. Aside from that, it’s not that bad for a top 25 school.
My colleague, Occam’s Blunt Instrument, might have a word or two to say on this.
As an Olde Organic Chemist, I did find it interesting. Heh!
Now about BHO’s major in Basket Weaving…
When Perry went to school the average grade was c+ and lots of people flunked out. Now the average grade is B+.
Also of note is the fact that Perry was an Air Force pilot. Entrance into pilot training is very competitive and many people wash out.
Mr. Frank: Ah, but you must be wrong about that Air Force pilot being smart thing. Wasn’t Bush a jet fighter pilot? And isn’t he a stupidhead? QED.
Sigh.
I don’t know much about Texas A&M, but already I’m fatigued by the politics of “civility” and the exhaustive investigative reporting that we’ll be subjected to prior to the election.
If Perry is the nominee we’ll be hearing about his grades, in detail, ad nauseum, but will ANYONE in the MSM have the intellectual honesty to dig into Obama’s grades? Or question why we don’t have them, at least?
I’m sick to death of these people.
I think the “terrorist” meme regarding the Boehner deal finally put me over the edge.
I am not that interested in Perry’s college transcripts one way or the other.
The thing that bothers about Perry is his tendency to change his positions and even his party for the sake of political expediency.
I know Reagan was a Democrat and became a Republican…but Perry was Gore’s friend until it was more advantageous to be Bush’s friend and then when that did not help him, he was not Bush’s friend anymore.
He talks about deficits and big government, but the government in Texas is bigger than it was when he took office and there is a deficit there now. They can say Bush was the compassionate conservative and Perry is the true conservative, but Bush did not leave office in Texas with a $10 billion deficit on the state level either.
He also supported states making decisions about gay marriage and abortion and then turned around and supported federal laws to address both of these things.
I know politicians do this kind of thing all the time, but there is just something about the guy that bothers me. And I am not a Democrat either.
You failed Integral Calculus!?!?!?!?! I’m NEVER reading your blog again!!!
Tom: does it help that my professor didn’t speak a word of English? He was Turkish, and never addressed the class. We were so obedient that no one complained to the higher-ups; just never thought of it. About half the class flunked, as I recall.
It’s makes a fine excuse, anyway.
hahahahaha, works for me, since I didn’t even graduate!
Oh, dear Neo – Texas A&M is hitherto unknown to you? Well, much can be forgiven of right-coast sophisticates – but in Texas, A & M is hugely prestigious. The Veterinary School is one of the finest in the country, and terribly well thought of! My daughter was aiming at that for a while, through some pre-vet courses. They have a huge cadet corps (ROTC), and I am too tired from a book event today in Georgetown to look up the figures, but A & M supposedly provided commissioned officers in the WWII fighting Army only second to West Point itself.
I’ve actually met Gov. Perry face to face, two years ago at a Tea Party event in San Antonio, and I will confirm that he is quite brashly charming. Long story — I blogged it thusly:
“…the biggest element in the program was Governor Perry signing off on our “Contract with the Constitution” — a statement of principles, which we would like to present to every elected politician or prospective politician. If they sign off on it — good and well; if not … well, then, that says something. And if they sign off on it, and then don’t keep to it … that says something else. Up until the last minutes, we were under the impression that he would just zoom right in, introduce Marcus Luttrell, sign off on the Contract and zoom out again. He actually stayed for about three hours, some of it in rustic little banquet hall where the VIP dinner was being held, and the rest in the backstage area. When the VIP dinner was over and a lot of the guests were scattering to their seats in front of the stage, Blondie and I went and bought plates of chopped brisket on a bun from the food vendor, and brought them in to eat in the relative coolness of the hall. We sat next to the elderly lady known to us all as Matt’s Mom; Matt is the webmaster for the Tea Party Committee. His Mom comes to all the meetings and events with him. On Matt’s Mom’s other side was Other Matt, the husband of another Committee member who was wearing his 82nd Airborne baseball cap. After a bit, Governor Perry came over, and pulled up a chair opposite and began ragging on Other Matt, the old paratrooper for jumping out of perfectly good airplanes; the Governor had been an Air Force transport pilot, it transpired. So we had quite a frivolous and merry conversation, with Blondie ragging back at him, when he confessed that he had broken a collarbone lately in a bike accident — but not a motorcycle, a mountain bike, and I recommended that he give up on the VIP chicken dinner, and try some of the brisket from the vendor outside. Not quite sure why he glommed on to us, out of the people left in the hall — possibly because we didn’t want to talk politics or ask for a picture.”
I think, out of all the major-league politicans in 2009-2010 — and surely a governor has to count as major-league — he was the first to sense that the Tea Party was genuinely a real movement of real people, with passion behind them, and the determination to go the long, hard road, and had the assurance to act on it. I think he knew, quite early on, that it was something he had better get out in front of. He’s a professional politician, for god’s sake, with (apparently) excellent social instincts. Later, I told a male acquaintance about this, who also knows him; I said that my daughter and I both had the feeling that if the venue had — by some miracle — been the NCO club on a Saturday night, we were being hit on by a charming and amusing man. The male friend chuckled, and said, “Yeah, but he was hitting on you, politically!”
The local nick-name for him is “Governor Good-Hair.” And yes, he does tend to go wherever the prevailing winds would take him — but at least he is paying attention to those winds. Unlike some professional pols that I could name.
Neo, When I served as an Army officer back in the 70’s, there were lots of “Aggies” who were officers because Texas A&M had one of the largest ROTC programs. When I trained with these men we used to make jokes about them all the time. I got to be so good at telling Aggie jokes that even the Aggies thought they were funny. All jokes aside, the Aggies made excellent officers and we all should be glad that so many of them served in uniform.
I don’t care about Obama’s grades, but I would like to see the list of courses that he took; I would love to see syllabi and reading lists.
Any conservative needs to research Perry’s role in the attempted “Trans Texas Corridor” before casting their vote for him in the primaries.
As a life long Southerner and Conservative, I say give me one of the northern girls for President, like from Alaska or Minnesota, before you give me Perry for President- I do not trust him .
Joseph,
It’s not that I care about Obama’s grades. I don’t. I care that he seems to be the only politician who is exempt from having them publicized.
It’s a media thing. Pardon my language, but their heads are still so far up Obama’s a$$ that they see daylight only when he speaks
While Phil Gramm, a former Aggie econ prof turned US Senator, was a transient presidential candidate, my fellow-alum and donations hooker for the horribly liberal liberal arts college (in Newsweek’s Top 10) we attended called to seek my contribution to “Annual Giving”. I told him I’d only send money to A&M, and he choked. We haven’t talked since, nor have I given.
And thank goodness it ranks 77th in ‘openness and diversity”. Let’s try for lower!
Hitting on Perry for starting out as a Democrat twenty five years ago in Texas is either ignorant of history or intentionally misleading. During that period in the South, Democrats were in control and were very conservative. The Democratic primaries at all levels tended to pick the ultimate winner of the office. In many cases the general election was a formality.
Neo:
You wrote:”Any graduates here care to defend your alma mater?”.
I never have to defend my undergraduate school – Caltech. I ALWAYS qualify my graduate school – Harvard – attendance with: “well i was in the hard sciences (chemistry) just after the Jim Conant era while Bob Woodward was there…”
Verbum Sapiens Statis
Neo:
There is a great rivalry between Texas A&M and the University of Texas at Austin. The football game the Friday after Thanksgiving (most years) is a big deal. Both make jokes about the other. Others have already mentioned Aggie jokes.
There are a number at faculty at both institutions at both schools who have mixed emotions about the big game, as they got a degree at one school and teach at the other.
What is amusing about the rivalry between the institutions is that it can be seen as a fight among siblings. There are many families in TX which send one child to UT, and another to A&M.
Bottom line is that when families have no qualms sending one child to UT and another to A&M, both are respected institutions. That being said, what a student gets out of an education has more to do what effort the student puts in his education, rather than what school the student attends.
Grades vary greatly through majors and through the years. One can be an Education major with a 4.0 major and 900 SATs, with minimal studying. One can be an
Grades vary greatly through majors and through the years. One can be an Education major with a 4.0 major and 900 SATs, with minimal studying. One can be an Engineering major with a 2.5 average, 1300 SATs, and study 60 hours a week.
sorry about that
I would have no idea where Barnard Baruch College would end up… and have no idea where Bronx Science stacks up any more other than its continuing connections to history
looking it up…
For 2009-2010 Baruch College ranked #65 in the world. The Global 100 current ranking is 64 in the world.
Bronx Science has received international recognition as one of the best high schools in the United States, public or private, ranking in the top 100 in U.S. News and World Report’s lists of America’s “Gold-Medal” high schools in 2008 and 2009
Every year almost all Bronx Science graduates go on to four-year colleges; many attend Ivy League and other prestigious schools. Bronx Science has counted 132 finalists in the Intel (formerly Westinghouse) Science Talent Search, the largest number of any high school. Seven graduates have won Nobel Prizes – more than any other secondary education institution in the United States – and six have won Pulitzer Prizes. The seven Nobel Laureates have earned Bronx Science a designation by the American Physical Society as a “Historic Physics Site” in 2010.
Admission is based exclusively on an entrance examination, known as the Specialized High Schools Admissions Test (SHSAT),[23] open to all eighth and ninth grade New York City students and covering math (word problems and computation) and verbal (reading comprehension, logical reasoning, unscrambling paragraphs). Out of the 26,000 students taking the entrance examination each year, only about 700 are admitted to Science.
back when i took it they only took in 400, and more kids took the test as i was on the tail end of the baby boom, as the schools were not as bad as now, and we were still socially with it in science, and all that… the moon missions were not that far behind.
i got in freshman year…. not junior after being in advanced placement throughout my education… by the time i got to jr high, i no longer had to attend classes just pass tests for records sake.. it was 70s in a bronx school, not exactly a picnic.
note that the 26,000 are the best in the whole school system… public or private… only the top 400 get in… and now 700, though i dont know if they only go by score or they have scores for different categories to get a more diverse campus.
it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
Eldest Son is in the midst of USAF pilot training. He graduated with a 3.82 average from a private university last year, bachelor’s degree in Business Administration. He tells me that the intense classwork and studying required of him in pilot training makes his college coursework seem like grade school.
If Perry was an Air Force pilot, he’s no idiot. He’s part of a carefully selected extremely intelligent group of people. What grades he got in his college courses four decades ago pales in comparison to that achievement.
Full disclosure: My dad was a Texas Aggie…got a B. S. in Horticulture. I have a B. S. in Chemical Engineering from the University of Texas at Austin. I studied engineering at Rice and got on the Dean’s List a couple of times there (Rice’s equivalent of all A’s and B’s). Hated Rice…transferred to Texas and I can assure you I got a better all round education at Texas.
A quick correction about the football game between Texas and Texas A&M…in the good ole days before college football became a billion dollar industry and being on TV wasn’t so important economically, that game was ALWAYS played on Thanksgiving DAY..not the Friday after.
Texas A&M is an excellent university, especially in engineering, agriculture, and veterinary medicine (well duhhh…A&M stands for “Agricultural & Mechanical”). If you check out who are successful officers in large corporations, you’ll find many Aggies amongst them.
Texas A&M and my Texas Longhorns are huge rivals on the football field but I have a high regard for Texas A&M. If you get to know Aggies, you’ll find that most are capable and honorable people.
I agree with Neo and most who are commenting here…the university one attends and the grades you make there usually are’t all that important.
Here’s an interesting story that fits well with this subject:
Recently, I had to buy a new battery for my car. I went to Autozone to buy it because their prices are good, it’s convenient to me, and they install batteries there. A young lady wound up installing it for me. We got into a conversation as she worked to get it installed (in the hot Texas sun). She let me know that her job there was just a stepping stone to better things.
She was driving about 75 miles to work each day but was attending college too and was only one year from getting her degree in Education. She had transferred from New Mexico State University when she moved to Texas. Her ultimate goal is to become an elementary school principal. When she graduates next year, she will owe ZERO on student loans.
I bet she will become a much more productive citizen than most Yale grads who major in something like French Art History.
Oh, by the way, S&P has just raised Texas’ bond rating to AA+ since Perry, the so called dummy, has been governor. It’s the same rating the USA now has since S&P just downgraded it. (Hat tip to Ace).
I don’t like Governor Good Hair, but we absolutely do not have a deficit.
I guess everyone at Harvard Law graduates magna cum laude and becomes an editor of the Harvard Law Review with gentleman’s C’s.
This may be the lamest defense of Perry ever.
I hate these arguments about who is the brightest and got the best grades. Being bright is simple candlepower and good grades go to those who study or brown nose. Obama may be bright but he is not experienced; he lacks common sense and knowledge and is therefore not wise. I have yet to hear anyone say he has wisdom and knows what he is doing.
Of course there are alternatives to Perry:
http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2011/01/governor-christies-dirty-islamist-ties.html
The ultimate political dilemma is to figure out who is, or is engaging in some degree of intellectual pretend (especially pretense), dishonesty so intolerable that an inspiration of defiance dominates your (personal) judgement over fear, unless or until you are caught and subject to physical intimidation… too bad there are so many fools dominating history? We now know the history of the 20th century, here at the beginning of the 2nd decade of the 21st one has to wonder if the civilizations will be determined enough to create the tragedy and havoc of the 20th, ie. the 20th essentially was kicked off with the Armenian genocide. Too bad there’s no possibility of Rudy Giuliani, a great mix of welfare state compassion and intellectually honest values.
Hey, y’all, any century now, the ‘Fourth Estate’ will wake up, scratch itself, yawn, and start to do due diligence in vetting the current leader of the Free World.
Any century now. Of course, they might sleep with the fishes if they do: does anyone remember any other American case of such STASI-like censorship and silence about a powerful politician? The fact that no one has leaked anything is even scarier than what we can guess that he might be hiding. Think of what it would take to ensure such global silence: then feel the hair on the back of your neck rise.
“Some of those mocking Perry for his grades also point out that the school he received them from, Texas A&M, is hardly Harvard”
Huh?
You’ve written this after suggesting that seeing the grades from the guy who graduated cum laude from Harvard could have anything other than a fkn obvious result.
Was Texas A&M the strong school in this equation?
Perfected Democrat:
I have read (cannot independently confirm) that 75% of Obama’s class graduated “cum laude” or better. (That probably corresponds to everyone able to read).
Also read an recent interview with a full professor who taught with Obama in Chicago. According to this colleague:
1) Obama was considered totally unqualified to teach by the Law School. Board of Trustees forced his hiring.
2) Faculty considered him lazy and intellectually weak after his hiring.
3) He is, apparently, the only law school editor in history to never publish anything. Voting “Present” again?
Please, Lord, give us an Aggie instead of an intellectually vapid empty suit created by the Democratic party out of nothing.
PS. If Obama’s record is so stellar, why is it not being displayed on the White House wall? It is apparently OK to put Perry’s grades out there.
GaryP wrote: “If Obama’s record is so stellar, why is it not being displayed on the White House wall? It is apparently OK to put Perry’s grades out there.”.
As a grad student at Harvard – see above – I shared quarters and dining hall with law school students. One was a high school buddy (we were academically one and two in our high school years.).
Fred told me that a black (remember this guys was/is as liberal as they came then) would never be flunked out. In a pissed off mode he told me the grading philosophy: “They give them a “D” for the course, telling them not to come back and annoy them again. That way, the kid moves on, stays in law school, and they don’t have the onus of flunking a black.”
Needless to say, this fact tarnished black students who could make the cut. Fred again: “When a balck shows up in your class – no matter what his/her abilities are – we all think ‘here comes the “D”‘. Unfair to a person with abilities – yes, but what do you expect…it’s the rule even if they’re the exception.”
Some of our trolls must be reading-challenged.
Let me attempt to make it crystal clear, since that seems to be what you require: I don’t care what Obama’s grades were. I don’t care what anyone’s grades were unless they’re looking for a job in academia. When voting someone into office, I care what people have done since then.
I also am critical of the fact that Obama is treated differentially by the press, and that he gets a pass on showing his grades (and no “sources” have come forward offering his transcripts) while other politicians seem to have to reveal their grades, or at the very least to have a source come forward to reveal them for them.
I have written elsewhere on this blog that I happen to think Obama’s grades were probably fairly decent, and perhaps even good, at Harvard. I happen to think he was probably a fairly good student. However, being president of the Law Review is no indication of that, because by the time Obama got to Harvard Law School, it was an elected office. Earlier, it had gone to the best students in the class, but that was over by the time Obama got the job–which he performed more minimally than any previous or later person holding the position, not publishing anything except a short unsigned note.
AUTODIDACT
My wife’s comment…
“If Obama’s grades were even halfway great (she means a “C” average [I pressed her on that point]), they would be plastered over the world’s media. So I suspect the charge of Affirmative Action Poster Child is probably true.”
The other possibility (she says) is that the transcript box marked “Religious Preference” is either “None” or “Muslim”. Either case would be fatal.
And this from a self-styled “Classic Liberal Democrat”!!
Whoo Hoo…
Every candidate is imperfect, it is apparently built into the human condition; the priority now is to find a candidate who will appeal to the swing voters who may have sipped, but have not finished drinking the Democratic Party Kool-aid…
We’ve already already gone over the cliff, what we need now is a parachute. Obama is this century’s Woodrow Wilson (though Wilson was, no doubt, at least a loyal American), while spiraling events in the middle-east and elsewhere associated with islamic military and cultural expansion are this century’s equivalent to the Armenian genocide; history repeating itself…
It’s more important to unseat Obama in this next election than to have an ideal candidate.
Ah yes, grades. Let’s return to those thrilling days of yesteryear when John Kerry’s supporters were, based in large part on his undergraduate grades, calling George W. Bush a dunce. Then Mr. Kerry’s grades were revealed and surprise, surprise, were even lower than those of Mr. Bush. That line of attack ended forthwith.
Unless Mr. Obama is willing to release his college grades, which grades are apparently under a secrecy classification greater than top secret, his supporters would be wise to drop this line of attack.
I realize I’m not addressing Perry’s grades here, but their relevance is marginal. Here’s an interesting chart:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms
Was there not a survey about a year ago among corporate recruiters with regard to the schools that turned out the best prepared students for industry, the top three were
1) Penn State
2) Texas A&M
3) Illinois
The schools have the following in common, Ag Schools, Very Good Engineering Schools, were “blue collar” schools. Wish I had link to the survey but cannot find it. Yeah, I went to Penn State and my oldest went to A&M, but my other two went to KU and Texas. My opinion is get a good technical education at the major schools and you are well off. Major schools, Big Ten, SEC, Pacific Coast, Big 12, etc.
Perry’s transcripts will carry weight with people already inclined to dislike him. The HuffPo echo chamber is a tiny place that appears large to its inhabitants because its insides are full of convex mirrors that make objects seem larger than they are in reality.
I am SHOCKED (not) by the lack of concern about the grotesque violation of federal privacy laws (FERPA) that some (most likely) state employee (Texas A&M is a state school) committed.
Did Huffpo get the transcripts authenticated by A&M? If not, why not?
Has A&M initiated an investigation into who accessed Perry’s transcripts? If not, why not?
I attended the Bush School of Government and Public Service. It has high standards and the professors are both respected scholars and interested in teaching.
As for grades, the old saying doesn’t quite ring true for our current president:
The people who earn A’s teach the people who earn B’s to work for the people who earn C’s.
The President should have stuck to teaching.