Gazans’ perceptions of Hamas and October 7
First, we have this from a recent poll of Palestinians:
More than five months after Hamas-led savage marauders slaughtered more than 1200 Israeli men, women and children, support for the October 7 massacre is at an all-time high among Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza.
“Despite the ensuing war, the humanitarian crisis and the atrocities committed against Israelis, the vast majority of Palestinians in the West Bank (71 percent) and the Gaza Strip (71 percent) still viewed the October 7 “offensive”,” the Israeli TV channel i24NEWS reported Thursday citing a poll released by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research (PSR).
The poll also indicated that Palestinians would like Hamas to continue in power, with 64% of those in the West Bank preferring it and 52% of Gazans preferring it.
Of course, there’s always the caveat that Palestinians in opposition to these pro-October 7 and pro-Hamas positions might just refuse to answer the poll questions, or they might lie. But from what I’ve seen, there is indeed a great deal of support among Palestinians for the pro-jihadi positions, and for eliminating Israel entirely.
Second, we have this finding, from what I believe is the same poll:
Ninety-three percent of Palestinians say they believe Hamas did not commit atrocities during its mass invasion of southern Israel on Oct. 7 …
Notably, among Palestinians who watched videos of the atrocities filmed by the perpetrators themselves, 81% still did not believe they were committed.
Only one in five Palestinians has seen such videos, according to the survey.
Denial is rife, and is encouraged by news sources in the Palestinian press and leadership. I’m not saying that a great many Palestinians wouldn’t support October 7 even if they knew the entire story, but I suspect that the numbers approving would at least be somewhat lower.
[NOTE: Also see this about the mindset of someone like Sinwar. Here’s an excerpt, which describes Sinwar when he was in an Israeli prison during the first decade of the 21st century, how he got there, and how he got released:
Sinwar studied his enemy assiduously. He read Israeli newspapers, took classes in Jewish history through the prison’s “open university,” and spoke to Bitton about Hamas’ goals—the expulsion of all Jews from Palestine, the duty to implement God’s laws as given to Muhammad on all sacred Muslim soil. Numerous efforts to recruit him in prison failed. “The struggle continued inside the prison,” Bitton said. Sinwar was not married then, and he had few visitors. “Hamas and the struggle were his life.” …
Having initially been arrested in 1982 for what Israel termed subversive activities, he was rearrested in 1985. Released again, he and Mushtaha founded Munazzamat al Jihad w’al-Dawa (MAJD), an organization responsible for rooting out Palestinian collaborators with Israel and other rival factions. Sinwar excelled at his job, earning himself the nickname “Butcher of Khan Yunis.” In 1988 he was arrested again for planning the abduction and killing of two Israeli soldiers and the murder of four Palestinians he considered collaborators. According to Israeli press accounts, he had acknowledged during his interrogation having strangled two of the Palestinians, inadvertently killing another during his interrogation, and shooting the fourth who had tried to escape. He was said to have led investigators to the orchard where the bodies were buried. In 1989, Israel sentenced him to four life sentences.
Under normal circumstances, a man with such a violent resume would not have been released. But after Israeli Staff Sergeant (then-Corporal) Gilad Shalit was kidnapped in 2006, negotiations with Hamas inside and outside of prisons began. Bitton himself was involved in the talks with Sinwar and other Hamas negotiators. Brokered by German and Egyptian mediators and signed in Cairo in 2011, the deal agreed to Shalit’s return in exchange for the phased release of 1,027 Israeli-held prisoners, including some 315 Palestinians who were serving life sentences for having been convicted of the worst crimes. Among them were Sinwar and his two lieutenants.
Hamas’ leaders considered Israel’s willingness to release over 1,000 Palestinians for a single Israeli soldier a victory. Most of the prisoners were ecstatic about their release. But Sinwar denounced the trade. “He was furious, even though he was among those scheduled to be released,” Bitton recalled. He told me that releasing Shalit for a thousand Palestinian prisoners was “not enough.” All of the Palestinians in Israeli jails had to be released.
Much more at the link.]
“Notably, among Palestinians who watched videos of the atrocities filmed by the perpetrators themselves, 81% still did not believe they were committed.”
It is not that they didn’t think Hamas committed these acts, it is that they don’t think they are atrocities when perpetrated against Israelis.
Richard Nieporent:
No doubt there are some who think that, but that’s not what the question measured. The question measured those who don’t think the atrocities occurred. They think the videos were fake and/or staged. Many Hamas supporters in the US think the same.
Upon what basis should we assume that polled Palestinians are providing the truth about what they actually think? Especially as Hamas is completely open about what they believe, about what they’ve done and what they plan to do… again and again and again.
People who support Hamas will not hesitate to lie. Like the left, we are far more likely to be correct by assuming the truth to be exactly the opposite of what they claim.
Sounds like a sociopath to me, or just a typical Hamashite?
Send all the so-called Palestinians to Qatar. Those who refuse should be sent to the Uyghur prison camps in China. In return, China gets to keep TikTok. Can’t get somethin’ for nothin’
A man can dream.
neo on March 21, 2024 at 4:32 pm said:
Richard Nieporent:
No doubt there are some who think that, but that’s not what the question measured. The question measured those who don’t think the atrocities occurred. They think the videos were fake and/or staged. Many Hamas supporters in the US think the same.
That’s what it claims to measure. Most will realize it happened and then claim it didn’t for the cause.
Many ordinary Palestinians took part in the attacks, including women and children. Those polled are the same type of people. They understand what happened because it is what they themselves would have done. They just know to lie about it.
consider what memri showed 20 years about their version of sesame street, farfour the mouse, I don’t doubt that at all
You hit the crux Neo.
The Palestinians elected Hamas,
Every building over one story in the W bank should be destroyed by the IDF. Be careful of who you vote for!
Don:
You are not a mind reader and don’t know what every single Palestinian believes. I have little doubt that some know the atrocities happened and think it’s just fine. But there are a certain number who think they are fake – and these people exist in this country, too, and not just among Palestinians.
It’s similar, in a way, to 9/11 truthers. If evidence threatens a belief system, a certain number of people (in any society or of any political persuasion) will deny the truth of the evidence. The question is: how many?
Neo,
Right after October 7th, before Israel had a chance to fight back, we had progressives in our country justifying the atrocities that were perpetuated by Hamas. Did you not see the signs carried by progressives that said among other things that rape is resistance? If our progressives could not condemn what took place, why do you believe that the Palestinians would think differently? The Palestinian children have been indoctrinated from kindergarten to kill Israelis. Why do you think that the method used would cause them any second thoughts?
https://www.ynetnews.com/article/hyqkwg90a
Richard Nieporent:
Of course I saw those people demonstrating right after 10/7. What makes you think I’m referring to those people – who are a tiny fraction of those adhering to the “cycle of violence” and “2-state solution” point of view? I have stated several times that yes, some people knew about the atrocities and didn’t care. The point is: what percentage of those who vote Democrat are in that group? And furthermore, what percentage of Palestinians are in that group?
I don’t think it’s difficult to understand my point, which is that we simply don’t know the percentages, but it’s logical to believe that in each group there are also people who don’t think the atrocities happened. This is how cognitive dissonance can work. If people in the US, for example, start out feeling sorry for Palestinians and believing in the cycle of violence and 2-state solution, and then get evidence of what Hamas plus some civilian Palestinians did on October 7, it is a shock that would cause a huge and uncomfortable amount of cognitive dissonance. Some people will always resolve such a dilemma (cognitive dissonance) by saying – and believing – that the evidence isn’t real.
Some progressives here condemned what Hamas did. It took some courage. It would take much much greater courage for any Gazans to do the same.
Neo, I think I can better read Palestinians minds than you can read the mind of every single Israeli Jew.
As you preciously suggested when you stated there was no way an Israeli official looked the other way and allowed Oct 7 to happen to harm Bibi.
Caroline Glock reports that Israel received intelligence prior to the attacks and a specific official sat on it.
I’m getting to the point where I think the Israelis should nuke Gaza and let g*d sort them out…horrible to contemplate, but it would be the end of Hamas.
The polls of March are consistent with polls from the fall. The Palis are doubling down.
Don:
I have never claimed to read the mind of every single Israeli or every single Jew. I would never make such a claim, nor did I.
And of course there might be an evil official or two in Israel who might look the other way and allow an attack to happen in order to harm Netanyahu. But it would have to be more than one or two people doing it; it would have to be a large group ignoring intelligence FOR THAT REASON.
Yes, there was intelligence that was indeed ignored. I’ve written about it many times. But there are plenty of other reasons to have ignored it; mainly that they thought their technological defenses would be effective and they thought it was just bluster. Another reason it was ignored was this:
Also – although I can’t recall where I read it – but there had been times when Israel had mobilized its military in response to intelligence and it had turned out to be a costly and embarrassing false alarm. In the 2 years before October 7, there were many signals that Hamas was becoming less violent and more interested in the economic benefits that could offer, and Israel’s leaders seem to have believed that. There is no need to advance conspiracy theories as to why the intelligence was ignored; there were plenty of other obvious reasons it wasn’t acted on.
And cut out the “precious” business.
I’m sure the Israelis felt no need at the time, but as we were in Arizona chopping B52s into future soda cans and toasters to appease Russia, had Tel Aviv expressed interest I’d wager a half dozen could have been had for cheap.
IIRC, each could hold 51 MK82s, and also IIRC, 3 on each wing pod. Sorties of six 52s 2-3 times/day could do yeoman service Arc Lighting Gaza, assuming the proper fuzing on the 82s.
I suspect that’s where the Gaza situation will have to wind up for there to be any assurance of preventing another October 7; the perpetrators are receiving way too much encouragement from left-leaning governments and organizations and seem way too anxious for a repeat performance.
Cavenidsh, Israel’s capital is Jeruslaem. To refer to “Tel Aviv” as the Israeli government makes as much sense as referring to Chicago as the US Government.
YahyaSinwar should never have been left alive. He was as dangerous and evil a man as Reinhard Heydrich was.
Don your post is absolutely absurd and you should be embarrassed for writing it. Never chalk up to mailice that which can be chalked up to incompetence.
No i would say malice
https://www.frontpagemag.com/biden-regime-considering-new-move-to-stab-israel-in-the-back/
https://fogbow.ch/team/
One would call them the ansars