Thanks for posting this. I love “why is there something instead of nothing” conversations!
Very interesting, thanks! The so-called “Leibniz question” is endlessly fascinating; one decade ago, it inspired Jim Holt to write the excellent book entitled “Why Does the World Exist?”. Off-topic, related to the obsession of the week, Will Chamberlain has an interesting thread suggesting a possible (even likely) culprit for the leak, a female clerk for Breyer who is an ardent pro-abortion feminist with a background in “gender studies” and a husband who works as a journalist and who has connections in DC’s swamp.
Leibniz intrigued me because of candide which was darker than i originally remember reading it back in college days
Why x? Existence is something, so why?
We don’t know and can’t know – but there’s lot of speculation that’s possible to speculate about it. “Question the question … dismiss” — is a cop-out.
“Could have been otherwise” is a speculative. “God exists, and created creation”, seems a bit more reasonable. Then the fundamental fact of existence starts with God (the Creator), and we mere mortals must accept it as a mystery.
Rickles is interesting, but somehow neither enlightening, nor inspiring.
In the meantime, Trump’s 55-0 endorsement rating (or 50-5-0, no losses, 5 runoffs) shows the Reps are becoming the America First party, and this party is changing the culture. While I do believe politics is downstream of culture, it’s also true that culture is downstream of politics. Escher describes this reality of feedback better than any actual picture of reality.
Anyone tried to read godel bach escher and didnt get a terrible headache
@Tom Grey:“God exists, and created creation”, seems a bit more reasonable. Then the fundamental fact of existence starts with God (the Creator), and we mere mortals must accept it as a mystery.
Shorter and more efficient to just start with the existence of the universe and accept that as the mystery, if you are in the business of accepting mysteries already. It doesn’t do God any favors, in my opinion, to stand the universe on His back like a tortoise.
To be consistent, you either have to explain where God came from, which is now a game of “turtles all the way down”; or you have to explain why you just get to assume God without explanation to explain the Universe, but nobody gets to assume the Universe without explanation.
I think at bottom the only reason sentences like “God created the Universe” sound like they make sense is because we don’t spend any time unpacking these words to be sure that we’re not introducing inconsistencies. For example is God supposed to be separate from and outside the Universe in some way? If so we have to be very careful with the word “Universe”.
If all you mean by “Universe” is “space, time, and the stuff found there”, and God is something else… well okay, but every time anyone talks about “cause and effect” it involves space, time, and the stuff you find there, and so if you want to assign God outside those things as a “cause” of those things, you now have a special concept of “cause and effect” that is only used in this one case, and now we’re back to “why do you get to assume that”?
Totally fine to redefine words in order to discuss something but you have to be very careful that the old meanings aren’t creeping in and confusing the issue.
Tom Grey,
“America First” is such an obviously successful platform only a party as feckless as the GOP could butcher it.
Let’s hope that enough learned from Trump’s approach of always being on offense to finally tip the scales.
“America First” is such an obviously successful platform only a party as feckless as the GOP could butcher it.
Ha, ha! Love it. Actually, Mark Levin had an interesting counterpoint to America First on his Sunday show, 1.5 weeks ago I think.
______
We’ve had something like a 2,000 Dow points swing in the last 24 hours, with a major market selloff this morning.
Worker productivity fell 7.5% in the first quarter, the fastest decline since 1947.
At the same time, labor costs as measured against productivity soared 11.6%, bringing the increase over the past four quarters to 7.2%, the fastest rise in about 40 years.
– – –
Nonfarm productivity, a measure of output against hours worked, declined 7.5% from January through March, the biggest fall since the third quarter of 1947.
I was wondering about “productivity.” Is that per dollar of labor or per hour? It’s the latter. In recent years the Fed has agonized over the fact that productivity growth has been very low; much lower than say 15 years ago. Now it is quite negative.
Rapidly rising wages and labor costs is part of the “wage price spiral” that the Fed worries can sustain strong inflation for longer periods.
Short of Putin dropping dead and Russia retreating from the Ukraine, I don’t see anything positive on the economic horizon. OK, a successful election cycle for the GOP this fall is another possible positive.
Not solely “old” meanings creep in to our speech to induce confusion, but equally, I think, “new” words as well.
As a philosophical enterprise however, this line of inquiry — why being rather than not-being? — will (does, did at inception circa 700-600 BC) begin wholly apart from theological reflections. In a way, leaving aside the poets’ theology is the whole point. Without that step the philosophers wouldn’t be distinguishable at all: they’d merely be another bunch of poets. Their business, on the contrary, was otherwise. They aimed somehow to depart from the realm of opinion and move to the realm of knowledge.
“Why is there anything at all?”
Might as well ask how did the very very first star (the celestial variety) come into existence?
Nobody knows; it is inexplicable
No need getting your knickers in a twist trying to explain some things that really have no explanation.
Multiple universes is the physicist’s version of stacking turtles on the backs of turtles. 🙂
Something that theologians and philosophers have pondered long before there were physicists. 🙂
Reportedly, Chechin troops are being used in the role of Stalin’s NKVD units in WWII, shoot any Soviet soldiers who retreat, but now it’s Russian Federation soldiers. Also other non-Chechin units are reportedly not putting up with it.
Time will tell. Fog of war.
Existential 13 minutes.
BTW South Ossetia is one of those Vladistans formed after the little Vlad adventure in Georgia.
A potential source of Open Thread YouTube links. Celebs and musicians give their opinions on the top songs for hit lists of the 60s and 70s.
The reviewers are not shy.
you have to explain why you just get to assume God without explanation to explain the Universe, but nobody gets to assume the Universe without explanation.
The explanation is simple – God is the “answer”.
To the very relevant question of almost everybody – why am *I* here? Once one assumes the unknowable mystery of the existence of God, one can, and does, use God to explain the other stuff.
And what is the evidence for God? One key piece for me is that people who believe in God are happier, live better lives, help more other people, more often.
Certainly not perfect, but in group aggregate by many criteria better.
Certainly the happiest atheists are happier than the avg believer, and possibly happier than the happiest believers (but I don’t see that in my experience).
Rickles seems, like most modern philosophers, to NOT be a believer. So think of the important question of his video: “Why is there anything at all?”.
What was his answer?
My answer: It’s God’s will.
[and human sin comes from human Free Will…]
om: “Multiple universes is the physicist’s version of stacking turtles on the backs of turtles.”
Bravo! I’m going to be quoting that.
Generally, when something is mysterious and needs to be explained, we try to explain in terms of things that are less mysterious and not more mysterious than what we started with.
There’s a lot of ways to think about the Universe and where it came from and what God has to do with it all. Some are well-thought out, and some are not. Some are secular, and some are religious. A poorly-thought-out secular explanation does not strengthen a poorly-thought-out religious one and vice versa, because reason is not a team sport. Every idea stands or falls on its own merits.
I personally do not think the multiverse has much to recommend it. I’m content to assume the math, without assuming a bunch of “other universes” to “explain” the math. I just assume the math, mostly because I’m sure someone else is going to come along someday with different math and show that the math I’m seeing only applies in some situations, and the thing I’m assuming to “explain” my math might not even be needed (see “luminiferous ether”).
Likewise, as reason is not a team sport where one side “wins” because the other gave up points, “God is the Answer” does not “explain” where the Universe came from any more than it “explains” how the sky is blue, or where I left my wallet, or why ice forms hexagonal crystals at ambient pressure but cubic crystals at high pressure. If the sky were green, or if I had my wallet in my pocket, or if ice always made cubic crystals at any pressure, you could still say “God is the Answer”.
It’s just a way of stopping asking questions. If that’s all we’re doing, there’s no defense against those who would stop one asking step short of where we did, or those who would want God explained.
God certainly doesn’t tell us everything, and obviously there are things He left us to figure out.
BTW South Ossetia is one of those Vladistans formed after the little Vlad adventure in Georgia.
It’s existed since the Soviet era. North Ossetia was part of the old Russian Soviet Federated Socialist Republic. South Ossetia was part of the Georgian Soviet Republic. South Ossetia has a population of about 55,000. IIRC, South Ossetia is only accessible by one particular pass.
Art Deco:
Georgia (the other one, not in the USA) may disagree with you.
“But let’s not bicker and argue about who killed who, this is supposed to be a happy occassion.” MPATHG – Swamp Castle and Sir Lancelot.
If you were thinking that Amnesty International had finally hit bottom and couldn’t sink any lower, they’ve proved you wrong:
Georgia (the other one, not in the USA) may disagree with you.
It was incorporated in 1922. Doesn’t matter if they ‘disagree’.
Hey, everybody! Remember Ukraine? Remember that Russian warship that got sunk? Well, NBC News is reporting that U.S. intelligence helped the Ukrainians sink the ship.
But I’m sure there won’t be any consequences for that. Russians are notorious for not holding grudges and letting things slide.
Mike
Mike,
The consequence for the US conducting a proxy war with the Russians, indicated by the US making no effort to call for even a cease fire… will be future proxy wars conducted against the US.
Iran will likely be the first to call. Not by attacking us but by using its coming nuclear ICBM capability to hold hostage passage through the Strait of Hormuz, through which 1/3 of the world’s oil passes. Russia is now certain to back the Iranian’s ‘legitimate’ territorial control of the Strait. Especially as restricted oil flow through the Strait will increase demand for Russia’s oil…
Russia is also now certain to back China when it invades Taiwan.
Who knew that, that pesky Law of Unintended Consequences would arise once again?
Anyone tried to read godel bach escher and didnt get a terrible headache
Miguel Cervantes:
I read GBE and was astounded. I didn’t get it all. I hummed my way through some parts. Whoa!
I knew Godel’s Proof was all-mighty important and I already loved Bach and Escher. I had tried to read Ernest Nagel’s academic explication of Godel, but it was over my head. So Hofstadter seemed my best bet and I was hardly disappointed.
I wondered who Douglas Hofstadter was, the youngish man (34) who produced this remarkable book. Turned out his father was Nobel Prize co-winning physicist and Stanford professor. Ernest Nagel was a regular visitor to the Hofstadter household and became something of a mentor to young Douglas.
I read Hofstadter’s later books and they were good too, if one is inclined to the subject matter.
Note the dates. This rather polished political propaganda ad was released on the same day as the original Politico leak article. We don’t know when the leak was given to Politico, but at a minimum there was some collusion between some Politico people and the people producing the ad. Or it could have been the leaker bypassing Politico, but that would be worse.
Both philosophers and physicists have a problem with understanding that they simply don’t have the tools to prove any hypothesis they come up with concerning this topic, rendering said hypothesis fantasy – mathematical, logical or otherwise.
Note the dates.
–TommyJay
Indeed.
I appreciate the forbearance many conservatives have shown to leave open the possibility that the leak wasn’t necessarily yet another hard left tactic to get its way, regardless of dishonesty or norm-shredding.
But to me it falls in the Epstein suicide category.
Geoffrey and Bunge:
But but but 13 minutes!
And exactly why are the “intelligence” community and the media now held to be credible?
You got some ‘splainin to do.
LOL
What a dynamic duo.
Miguel and Huxley, you might enjoy David Berlinski’s Advent of the Algorithm. One of the most exciting books I’ve ever read.
Of course, YMMV.
The consequence for the US conducting a proxy war with the Russians,
The proxy war does not exist outside the space between the ears of Putin press agents. The Ukraine is not acting as an agent of the United States. They are fighting for their lives.
Proxies often fight for their lives.
And are bitterly disappointed when later betrayed.
Another thing for the May 9, 2022 Victory (Pyrric) Parade?
Fog of war, and time will tell.
What do you think, om and Art?
Our Intel Community is pretty open about how they are helping UA to take out RU generals and naval vessels. Is RU weak enough that they can be taken down and control of the vast natural resources taken away and controlled by Western elites?
Or will RU lash out with some sort of escalation?
JimNorCal:
You believe our “Intelligence Community” and what they peddle in the media. Seems more likely to be self serving BS. You do remember Brennan, Clapper, etc al?
Regarding Russia’s vast natural resources, who specifically is going to steal them from the Russian oligarchs?
Special pleaders for Russia are not a new thing it seems. IIRC, Ukraine didn’t invade Russia and isn’t threating the western world with nukes. Do try to focus.
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Thanks for posting this. I love “why is there something instead of nothing” conversations!
Very interesting, thanks! The so-called “Leibniz question” is endlessly fascinating; one decade ago, it inspired Jim Holt to write the excellent book entitled “Why Does the World Exist?”. Off-topic, related to the obsession of the week, Will Chamberlain has an interesting thread suggesting a possible (even likely) culprit for the leak, a female clerk for Breyer who is an ardent pro-abortion feminist with a background in “gender studies” and a husband who works as a journalist and who has connections in DC’s swamp.
Leibniz intrigued me because of candide which was darker than i originally remember reading it back in college days
Why x? Existence is something, so why?
We don’t know and can’t know – but there’s lot of speculation that’s possible to speculate about it. “Question the question … dismiss” — is a cop-out.
“Could have been otherwise” is a speculative. “God exists, and created creation”, seems a bit more reasonable. Then the fundamental fact of existence starts with God (the Creator), and we mere mortals must accept it as a mystery.
Rickles is interesting, but somehow neither enlightening, nor inspiring.
In the meantime, Trump’s 55-0 endorsement rating (or 50-5-0, no losses, 5 runoffs) shows the Reps are becoming the America First party, and this party is changing the culture. While I do believe politics is downstream of culture, it’s also true that culture is downstream of politics. Escher describes this reality of feedback better than any actual picture of reality.
Anyone tried to read godel bach escher and didnt get a terrible headache
@Tom Grey:“God exists, and created creation”, seems a bit more reasonable. Then the fundamental fact of existence starts with God (the Creator), and we mere mortals must accept it as a mystery.
Shorter and more efficient to just start with the existence of the universe and accept that as the mystery, if you are in the business of accepting mysteries already. It doesn’t do God any favors, in my opinion, to stand the universe on His back like a tortoise.
To be consistent, you either have to explain where God came from, which is now a game of “turtles all the way down”; or you have to explain why you just get to assume God without explanation to explain the Universe, but nobody gets to assume the Universe without explanation.
I think at bottom the only reason sentences like “God created the Universe” sound like they make sense is because we don’t spend any time unpacking these words to be sure that we’re not introducing inconsistencies. For example is God supposed to be separate from and outside the Universe in some way? If so we have to be very careful with the word “Universe”.
If all you mean by “Universe” is “space, time, and the stuff found there”, and God is something else… well okay, but every time anyone talks about “cause and effect” it involves space, time, and the stuff you find there, and so if you want to assign God outside those things as a “cause” of those things, you now have a special concept of “cause and effect” that is only used in this one case, and now we’re back to “why do you get to assume that”?
Totally fine to redefine words in order to discuss something but you have to be very careful that the old meanings aren’t creeping in and confusing the issue.
Tom Grey,
“America First” is such an obviously successful platform only a party as feckless as the GOP could butcher it.
Let’s hope that enough learned from Trump’s approach of always being on offense to finally tip the scales.
“America First” is such an obviously successful platform only a party as feckless as the GOP could butcher it.
Ha, ha! Love it. Actually, Mark Levin had an interesting counterpoint to America First on his Sunday show, 1.5 weeks ago I think.
______
We’ve had something like a 2,000 Dow points swing in the last 24 hours, with a major market selloff this morning.
Today’s labor statistics from CNBC:
Worker productivity fell 7.5% in the first quarter, the fastest decline since 1947.
At the same time, labor costs as measured against productivity soared 11.6%, bringing the increase over the past four quarters to 7.2%, the fastest rise in about 40 years.
– – –
Nonfarm productivity, a measure of output against hours worked, declined 7.5% from January through March, the biggest fall since the third quarter of 1947.
I was wondering about “productivity.” Is that per dollar of labor or per hour? It’s the latter. In recent years the Fed has agonized over the fact that productivity growth has been very low; much lower than say 15 years ago. Now it is quite negative.
Rapidly rising wages and labor costs is part of the “wage price spiral” that the Fed worries can sustain strong inflation for longer periods.
Short of Putin dropping dead and Russia retreating from the Ukraine, I don’t see anything positive on the economic horizon. OK, a successful election cycle for the GOP this fall is another possible positive.
Not solely “old” meanings creep in to our speech to induce confusion, but equally, I think, “new” words as well.
As a philosophical enterprise however, this line of inquiry — why being rather than not-being? — will (does, did at inception circa 700-600 BC) begin wholly apart from theological reflections. In a way, leaving aside the poets’ theology is the whole point. Without that step the philosophers wouldn’t be distinguishable at all: they’d merely be another bunch of poets. Their business, on the contrary, was otherwise. They aimed somehow to depart from the realm of opinion and move to the realm of knowledge.
“Why is there anything at all?”
Might as well ask how did the very very first star (the celestial variety) come into existence?
Nobody knows; it is inexplicable
No need getting your knickers in a twist trying to explain some things that really have no explanation.
Multiple universes is the physicist’s version of stacking turtles on the backs of turtles. 🙂
Something that theologians and philosophers have pondered long before there were physicists. 🙂
More news for the May 9, 2022 Victory Parade:
https://redstate.com/streiff/2022/05/05/the-russian-army-wasnt-designed-for-war-and-putins-war-in-ukraine-is-proving-it-n560026
Reportedly, Chechin troops are being used in the role of Stalin’s NKVD units in WWII, shoot any Soviet soldiers who retreat, but now it’s Russian Federation soldiers. Also other non-Chechin units are reportedly not putting up with it.
Time will tell. Fog of war.
Existential 13 minutes.
BTW South Ossetia is one of those Vladistans formed after the little Vlad adventure in Georgia.
A potential source of Open Thread YouTube links. Celebs and musicians give their opinions on the top songs for hit lists of the 60s and 70s.
The reviewers are not shy.
Sample: here is Barry Gibb commenting on songs of October 1967
https://youtu.be/g4CRpYvz2Ns
you have to explain why you just get to assume God without explanation to explain the Universe, but nobody gets to assume the Universe without explanation.
The explanation is simple – God is the “answer”.
To the very relevant question of almost everybody – why am *I* here? Once one assumes the unknowable mystery of the existence of God, one can, and does, use God to explain the other stuff.
And what is the evidence for God? One key piece for me is that people who believe in God are happier, live better lives, help more other people, more often.
Certainly not perfect, but in group aggregate by many criteria better.
Certainly the happiest atheists are happier than the avg believer, and possibly happier than the happiest believers (but I don’t see that in my experience).
Rickles seems, like most modern philosophers, to NOT be a believer. So think of the important question of his video: “Why is there anything at all?”.
What was his answer?
My answer: It’s God’s will.
[and human sin comes from human Free Will…]
Denis Prager: Why Some Scientists Embrace the ‘Multiverse’
https://dennisprager.com/column/why-some-scientists-embrace-the-multiverse/
Perfect and irrefutable evidence of intelligent design.
Here is an interesting article on how Putin is coping with the economic war on him.
om: “Multiple universes is the physicist’s version of stacking turtles on the backs of turtles.”
Bravo! I’m going to be quoting that.
Generally, when something is mysterious and needs to be explained, we try to explain in terms of things that are less mysterious and not more mysterious than what we started with.
There’s a lot of ways to think about the Universe and where it came from and what God has to do with it all. Some are well-thought out, and some are not. Some are secular, and some are religious. A poorly-thought-out secular explanation does not strengthen a poorly-thought-out religious one and vice versa, because reason is not a team sport. Every idea stands or falls on its own merits.
I personally do not think the multiverse has much to recommend it. I’m content to assume the math, without assuming a bunch of “other universes” to “explain” the math. I just assume the math, mostly because I’m sure someone else is going to come along someday with different math and show that the math I’m seeing only applies in some situations, and the thing I’m assuming to “explain” my math might not even be needed (see “luminiferous ether”).
Likewise, as reason is not a team sport where one side “wins” because the other gave up points, “God is the Answer” does not “explain” where the Universe came from any more than it “explains” how the sky is blue, or where I left my wallet, or why ice forms hexagonal crystals at ambient pressure but cubic crystals at high pressure. If the sky were green, or if I had my wallet in my pocket, or if ice always made cubic crystals at any pressure, you could still say “God is the Answer”.
It’s just a way of stopping asking questions. If that’s all we’re doing, there’s no defense against those who would stop one asking step short of where we did, or those who would want God explained.
God certainly doesn’t tell us everything, and obviously there are things He left us to figure out.
BTW South Ossetia is one of those Vladistans formed after the little Vlad adventure in Georgia.
It’s existed since the Soviet era. North Ossetia was part of the old Russian Soviet Federated Socialist Republic. South Ossetia was part of the Georgian Soviet Republic. South Ossetia has a population of about 55,000. IIRC, South Ossetia is only accessible by one particular pass.
Art Deco:
Georgia (the other one, not in the USA) may disagree with you.
“But let’s not bicker and argue about who killed who, this is supposed to be a happy occassion.” MPATHG – Swamp Castle and Sir Lancelot.
If you were thinking that Amnesty International had finally hit bottom and couldn’t sink any lower, they’ve proved you wrong:
https://www.facebook.com/amnestyusa
Georgia (the other one, not in the USA) may disagree with you.
It was incorporated in 1922. Doesn’t matter if they ‘disagree’.
Hey, everybody! Remember Ukraine? Remember that Russian warship that got sunk? Well, NBC News is reporting that U.S. intelligence helped the Ukrainians sink the ship.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/us-intel-helped-ukraine-sink-russian-flagship-moskva-officials-say-rcna27559
But I’m sure there won’t be any consequences for that. Russians are notorious for not holding grudges and letting things slide.
Mike
Mike,
The consequence for the US conducting a proxy war with the Russians, indicated by the US making no effort to call for even a cease fire… will be future proxy wars conducted against the US.
Iran will likely be the first to call. Not by attacking us but by using its coming nuclear ICBM capability to hold hostage passage through the Strait of Hormuz, through which 1/3 of the world’s oil passes. Russia is now certain to back the Iranian’s ‘legitimate’ territorial control of the Strait. Especially as restricted oil flow through the Strait will increase demand for Russia’s oil…
Russia is also now certain to back China when it invades Taiwan.
Who knew that, that pesky Law of Unintended Consequences would arise once again?
Anyone tried to read godel bach escher and didnt get a terrible headache
Miguel Cervantes:
I read GBE and was astounded. I didn’t get it all. I hummed my way through some parts. Whoa!
I knew Godel’s Proof was all-mighty important and I already loved Bach and Escher. I had tried to read Ernest Nagel’s academic explication of Godel, but it was over my head. So Hofstadter seemed my best bet and I was hardly disappointed.
I wondered who Douglas Hofstadter was, the youngish man (34) who produced this remarkable book. Turned out his father was Nobel Prize co-winning physicist and Stanford professor. Ernest Nagel was a regular visitor to the Hofstadter household and became something of a mentor to young Douglas.
I read Hofstadter’s later books and they were good too, if one is inclined to the subject matter.
At least they are predictable.
#GOPHandMaidsTale
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_g2CqOrFGak
Note the dates. This rather polished political propaganda ad was released on the same day as the original Politico leak article. We don’t know when the leak was given to Politico, but at a minimum there was some collusion between some Politico people and the people producing the ad. Or it could have been the leaker bypassing Politico, but that would be worse.
Both philosophers and physicists have a problem with understanding that they simply don’t have the tools to prove any hypothesis they come up with concerning this topic, rendering said hypothesis fantasy – mathematical, logical or otherwise.
Note the dates.
–TommyJay
Indeed.
I appreciate the forbearance many conservatives have shown to leave open the possibility that the leak wasn’t necessarily yet another hard left tactic to get its way, regardless of dishonesty or norm-shredding.
But to me it falls in the Epstein suicide category.
Geoffrey and Bunge:
But but but 13 minutes!
And exactly why are the “intelligence” community and the media now held to be credible?
You got some ‘splainin to do.
LOL
What a dynamic duo.
Miguel and Huxley, you might enjoy David Berlinski’s Advent of the Algorithm. One of the most exciting books I’ve ever read.
Of course, YMMV.
The consequence for the US conducting a proxy war with the Russians,
The proxy war does not exist outside the space between the ears of Putin press agents. The Ukraine is not acting as an agent of the United States. They are fighting for their lives.
Proxies often fight for their lives.
And are bitterly disappointed when later betrayed.
More fienting in the Black Sea?
https://redstate.com/streiff/2022/05/06/russian-frigate-reported-on-fire-as-the-intelligence-community-tries-to-convince-us-they-know-what-they-are-doing-n560809
Another thing for the May 9, 2022 Victory (Pyrric) Parade?
Fog of war, and time will tell.
What do you think, om and Art?
Our Intel Community is pretty open about how they are helping UA to take out RU generals and naval vessels. Is RU weak enough that they can be taken down and control of the vast natural resources taken away and controlled by Western elites?
Or will RU lash out with some sort of escalation?
JimNorCal:
You believe our “Intelligence Community” and what they peddle in the media. Seems more likely to be self serving BS. You do remember Brennan, Clapper, etc al?
Regarding Russia’s vast natural resources, who specifically is going to steal them from the Russian oligarchs?
Special pleaders for Russia are not a new thing it seems. IIRC, Ukraine didn’t invade Russia and isn’t threating the western world with nukes. Do try to focus.