COVID: hope and fear
Commenter “Rufus T. Firefly” writes:
I’ll admit I had a bias. My bias was hoping that COVID-19 would not be as terminal as predicted. I followed any reasonable, valid sign that gave credence to that hope. And, most all of us eventually saw it would be nowhere near as fatal as WHO and CDC predictions. Thank goodness!!
But people like the woman you have been debating with have the opposite hope. She wants it to be deadly. She wants people to remain frightened, and masked. She latches onto any sign she can find that it is worse than it is.
What does that say about who she is? Yikes!
I have a few ideas on that – not about this particular woman being discussed, but about the phenomenon in general. There’s always the “she’s just evil and wishing people harm” spin, but let’s leave that aside and imagine other possibilities.
First we have the traditional split between the optimist and the pessimist. Rufus is hoping for the best and the other person is fearing the worst. One can entertain both thoughts simultaneously, of course, but in most people one side or the other tends to dominate. The reasons are hard to know, but perhaps it has something to do with the atmosphere of the person’s family of origin, or even some genetic tendency towards joy versus depression.
Some people even try to ward off the worst by imagining the worst. Sometimes it’s even a learned cultural/ethnic thing: “Don’t be too optimistic and you won’t be disappointed – don’t tempt fate!”
Then there’s the phenomenon of not wanting to be proven wrong. If one has cast one’s lot early on with the doom and gloom crowd – on COVID or anything else – some people will be happy to hear that it’s not as bad as all that and will eagerly accept the more hopeful news. Others will be reluctant to admit they were wrong and/or reluctant to give up a point of view for which they’ve read plenty of evidence already. This works both ways at times; in other words, the formerly optimistic can be loath to give that perspective up in the face of data that points to a more negative situation.
Another problem that sometimes occurs is that many people are bad at math and/or science and have no idea how to evaluate data. Granted, most studies do require a certain amount of math to understand, and a grounding in the scientific method as well. If a person doesn’t have a halfway decent background in those things, it’s much easier to be swayed by emotion and talk on social media, the MSM, or elsewhere.
Is it the case that such people “want it to be deadly”? I assume there are some such people. But I think they’re very much a minority of the group that we’re talking about. People who work in the MSM, however, have reason to want it to be deadly – maybe not consciously and certainly not to anyone they know personally. But if it bleeds, it leads.. That’s been true of the news business for a long long time.
Now that the Democrats are being hurt by it, the MSM knows it’s time to let up a little. But it’s a habit that’s hard to break.
[ADDENDUM: Several people in the comments brought up the idea that some people just want to be afraid – such as, for example, people who like to watch scary movies.
I don’t think people who like to watch scary movies or ride on scary rides want to be afraid. Not actually afraid. At least, not most of them. They want the frisson of fear; a soupçon of fear rather than the real anxiety of fearing a disease hitting them or their loved ones. They are playing at fear and playing with a slight and exciting feeling of fear as a game.
People who are truly afraid of horror movies or thrill rides do not tend to watch them or ride them (more than one time, anyway) unless someone forces them in some way, by threats or bullying, or unless they work with a behaviorial psychologist to de-sensitize themselves to them.
There probably are people who like to actually be afraid in the real sense of fear, but I don’t think they are common. Most of the people who are really afraid of COVID either have a reason for it (they have lots of co-morbidities, for example, and are very old) or have more general problems with anxiety disorder.
Many of the people I know who actually are afraid don’t seem to want to be afraid at all. Some of them have those previously-mentioned factors (OCD would be another predisposing factor).
That’s a generalization, of course, but that’s what I see.
There also are people who seem to get off on telling others what to do and on scaring other people if they can. They’re not necessarily the same people who are themselves afraid.]
‘conclusion driven science’
Lots of good stuff in this clip from Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying. They talk a bit at the end about people that can’t admit that they may have been wrong about some things because they are so emotionally invested in their earlier beliefs. LOTS of that going around right now.
About ten minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4X0rbi2HkRA
I have been a member of the “doom and gloom” crowd since Biden was “elected” and I have yet to be disappointed. It was apparent early that the virus was the greatest threat to the elderly (like me) and those who had pre-existing health issues. Early on, it was apparent that the total shutdown of the economy was unnecessary. That even raised the issue of how much this reaction was related to Trump and re-election. I read Scott Atlas’s book and agreed with his conclusions.
Now, I am reading RFK Jr’s book and wondering how much his conspiracy theories are true.
You spelled “loath” wrong, using the verb “loathe” instead.
I’ve tried to talk about this in comments in the past but I think the western world was so primed for a response like the last two years. We in first world countries have gotten so used to cushy safe lives that many were so vulnerable to massive media and social media fear mongering that has led many off the emotional cliff.
Safetyism has been a growing thing for 20 years or so and it has led people to be extremely risk averse in unknown situations. COVID unknown. Careening down a freeway at 70 MPH in heavy traffic known.
Another major factor is that so many more people are either having no kids or only one and when you have fewer of an item you worry about it and protect it more even from things that are of no statistical risk.
Which leads to the point neo mentioned that people are extraordinarily illiterate mathematically in evaluating risk which led some people to almost act like no one ever dies and we can actually really do something to prevent mostly elderly sick people from dying. Sadly we can’t but in an effort to try society has caused a multitude of other problems that will take a long time to fix if they are ever fixed.
Worst societal mistake ever.
“Some people even try to ward off the worst by imagining the worst. Sometimes it’s even a learned cultural/ethnic thing: “Don’t be too optimistic and you won’t be disappointed – don’t tempt fate!”
My mother is a prime example of this phenomenon. Although she’s actually been fairly measured about Covid.
“Is it the case that such people “want it to be deadly”? I assume there are some such people. But I think they’re very much a minority of the group that we’re talking about. ”
Probably, but I’m convinced they’re a much larger minority than we might assume (and that I assumed before Covid).
The left is full of utopians and nihilists; indeed, leftist thought and actions naturally attracts both (and the two are not necessarily exclusive). For the eutopians, Covid was an ideal catalyst to finally ‘fundamentally transform’ America, and really the West as a whole, into the socialist, multicultural paradise they’ve dreamed of. The more people who die, the more power the left can seize, and the quicker they can create this paradise. It’s a small price to pay; omelette and breaking of eggs and such….
The nihilists simply hate America and (to a lesser extent) the West as a whole, and simply want to see it burn. There are many reasons for their hatred, and decent amount if them suffer from severe mental illness, but much of it comes down to envy and ennui. Nihilists often come from the bottom and top of society and are most often motivated by envy and ennui respectively.
We have seen the utopians and nihilists out in full force (and indeed I think many new one created) in the last two years
Neo, one other point that I’ve considered is that there are people who simply like to be afraid. Fear titillates them. I think of all of the people who like scary movies. I don’t, of course, know the motivations of all of them, but some not so small percentage like the fear. Fear porn I suppose it is. And mass, shared fear that is justified and reinforced by authority figures will be terribly difficult to let go of.
I would like to share an anecdote. One morning one of my senior local staff in Manila was wearing her double mask at her desk, where it wasn’t required. When I walked past I asked her why she was masked, and said “You have been double-jabbed and boostered, AND you had covid after all of that. Cathy, you’re bulletproof, so why are you wearing not one but two masks where one isn’t even required?” She couldn’t give me an answer beyond, “Well, I like to be careful.”
Fear porn? Blind obedience to authority? Cultural norms? Neo, I would appreciate any insights/opinions from you and any of the commenters.
“I was just following orders.”
THIS is how that happens.
People who were already “ germ-a-phobes” likely took COVID pretty hard to begin with.
Fear is certainly a factor among the public insisting upon the viral threat. So too is ignorance a factor. They’ve been subjected to a campaign of lies.
Not so among those who either know better or have the means to determine the truth. They are most definitely evil because they’ve actively participated in mass murder. Fauci foremost among that group but he has, at the least, hundreds of fellow travelers.
This is what the “mass formation” stuff is about. People want COVID to be an existential threat, so that they can feel heroic and virtuous making personal sacrifices to combat it. They will cling to anything that makes COVID seem dangerous, so that their heroic struggles and willing sacrifices are not in vain.
This one stopped me. I had to think a bit about why I’m a scoffer about the “We’re all going to die!” types. And I’ve always been like that.
On the one hand, I am pessimistic to the core. (Hence my chosen sig.) I’m always pessimistic about sports, and elections, and pretty much all else. So why not here? None of the reasons given seem to apply to me.
What I think is the cause, with me, is my contempt for the panic mongers, which I’ve has since an early age. When, say, a hurricane was coming, or a heavy snow. There have been some nasty exceptions, but most of the time, I’ve been right.
“Biden denies religious exemption to Navy chaplain”
https://donsurber.blogspot.com/2022/02/biden-denies-religious-exemption-to.html?m=1
Medical mandates are a direct violation of the Nuremberg Code, to which the US is a signatory. Which means that those imposing mandates are engaged in a “Crime Against Humanity”.
Shaquille O’Neil cuts to the chase: “Shaq dunks on Mandates…” https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/shaq-stands-tall-against-vaccine-mandates/
I think there are some people who have become transfixed by Covid, have a lot of emotional stake in it, and have allowed it to bring out their inner anti-social nature. Life is easier in some ways when you have a ready-made excuse to be a loner. Some of those even want it to be deadly, both to maintain their new lifestyle, but also because they believe that it will be the unvaccinated Trumpers and rednecks who will die.
I have 2 friends, entirely different people, both college educated that are vaxxed and boosted who are very afraid of getting the virus, even though each one knows scores of people who have recovered from it without issue. In both cases, they receive their information from the MSM in all its rancor. They believe they are following “the science” and they are….Fauci!
neo:
I say stick with “loath” — that’s the adjective. “Loathe” is a verb.
Two of my liberal cafe friends — with whom I am still talking — disappeared for over a month.
The wife always steers the conversation into the foolishness of those who won’t get vaccinated, as long as they are conservative whites. I fend her off with vague “That’s a long discussion” responses.
I saw them last week. Turns out they had gone to a family gathering on Christmas Day and, though just about all were vaxxed, everyone got Covid.
I said nothing.
The COVID outbreak has just been theater and an excuse for the Progressive Left to do what they always wanted. If it wasn’t COVID, it would have been something else, like supply chain shortages, fuel shortages, climate change, etc. Anything that would justify seizing control and faking election results, e.g. fuel shortage means people can’t actually go to vote in person, etc. The popular reactions are just human nature and a means to their end. COVID, or whatever, were needed to keep people from thinking about the un-auditable election results. It is drama for drama’s sake.
I get the feeling that for a lot of people Covid is a proxy for Trump, and all the vaxxing and masking are to keep him away. Any possible therapy or remedy is seen as minimizing the great danger of his return. Conversely, those who aren’t scared to death of Covid are probably not scared to death of Trump.
“I just think COVID is God’s gift to the left,” [Jane] Fonda continued. “That’s a terrible thing to say. I think it was a very difficult thing to send down to us, but [Covid] has ripped the Band-Aid off who [Trump] is and what he stands for and what is being done to average people and working people in this country.”
She continued, “We can see it now, people who couldn’t see it before, you know, they see it now and we have a chance to harness that anger.”
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/jane-fonda-says-coronavirus-gods-gift-left-help-biden-defeat-trump
See also then & now flow charts of Scientific Method vs Science Worshipper’s Method:
https://samim.io/p/2020-05-23-scientific-methods-vs-scientific-worshippers-method/
I have been astonished and dismayed, from the beginning of this thing, by the absolute reluctance of my Dem/centrist friends to accept anything which appears to be good news on the Covid front.
I have been saying since the beginning that the fact that kids are essentially impervious to covid is a good thing! The almost universal response is that “we don’t know enough, they can pass it on to family members, there are stories of kids dying…”
The idea that the omicron variant is more infectious but less lethal–a good thing as we will get to herd immunity faster—“We don’t know what the next variant will do–we don’t know that having omicron confers immunity”
Sure–but that’s what it looks like–like all covid viruses–a good thing!
Absolute psychological resistance. Sure–Covid’s not a good thing; in fact it’s very bad–but the glorying in bad news is ghoulish and pathological.
Ben Shapiro links COVID panic to expressive individualism as defined by Robert Bellah: “Philosopher Robert Bellah once posited that modern Western human beings identify themselves in a peculiar way: as emotional cores, surrounded by baser material. According to Bellah, we are expressive individualists — meaning that ‘each person has a unique core of feeling and intuition that should unfold or be expressed if individuality is to be realized.’ This mode of self-definition wars with older, more traditional modes, which suggest that our identities lie in how we interact with the world and society around us.
Expressive individualism, by contrast, suggests that we are not truly ourselves unless the world confirms all of our feelings and intuitions. . . . [but] COVID-19 should be a paradigmatic example of where expressive individualism fails: It is an exogenous shock to the individual, a reality that exists no matter the subjective thoughts or feelings. . . .
And yet we have now, as a society, psychologized even COVID-19 in expressive individualist terms. Thus, after Bari Weiss pointed out on Bill Maher’s show that the public health establishment has failed time and again to follow the data, that the vast majority of those who have been vaccinated are safe from COVID-19, and that we ought to consider life returning to normal, a massive backlash ensued — backlash from those least vulnerable to COVID-19, who have now internalized a sense of COVID-19 moral superiority. . . .
[T]here will be no normalization for those who have made pandemic paranoia a feature of their identity. That’s because the public health establishment has now successfully cultivated a large group of people who measure their moral value by just how compliant and panicked they remain over COVID-19: Fully 68% of people fully vaccinated with boosters remain very or somewhat worried about getting sick from COVID-19 in the next year, compared with just 39% of those who are unvaccinated.”
https://stoppingsocialism.com/2022/01/ben-shapiro-the-covid-19-impact-of-expressive-individualism/
Telemachus- “Neo, one other point that I’ve considered is that there are people who simply like to be afraid. Fear titillates them. I think of all of the people who like scary movies. I don’t, of course, know the motivations of all of them, but some not so small percentage like the fear.”
Harpoon- “People want COVID to be an existential threat, so that they can feel heroic and virtuous making personal sacrifices to combat it.”
Yes, I know people like that. They love talking about COVID and how they are following whatever rules the “experts” are recommending at the moment. But oddly, they don’t seem fearful, as much as to be sort of enjoying themselves. It’s as if COVID is bringing drama and excitement into their otherwise dull lives.
Okay, “loath” it is.
Maybe some people enjoy being told what to do by the authorities. If you trust them, then following instructions will keep you “safe.” And you don’t have to do any critical thinking.
Then there are those who don’t trust the authorities – as Reagan said, “Trust but verify.” The commenters and our bogger-in- chief fall in this category. The health bureaucrats don’t seem to realize how badly they have done. Their pronouncements have often been contradictory and not well explained or scientifically driven. The Johns Hopkins study really puts a spotlight on that. Will they do the self-examination necessary to try to do better? Nope. It’s the “Vision of the Annointed.” 🙁
I have wondered from the beginning why no significant effort was placed on therapeutics in coordination with the vaccines. Or why monoclonal antibodies have received so little attention. Money and a desire to control people seem to be the motivators. And delusions of Fauci grandeur
And after all this, a seemingly well-done study out of Israel finds that Vitamin D levels do make a difference in protecting against severe disease. Lives ruined, money wasted, children set back, hospital systems strained, nursing homes in bad shape, the country divided politically, and much more in trying to combat a virus. And the answer may be as simple as supplementing with Vitamin D? It could be.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-study-offers-strongest-proof-yet-of-vitamin-ds-power-to-fight-covid/
huxley:
It may be that the woman thought that being vaccinated was good because it tends to prevent serious cases, even though you can still contract Omicron if you’ve been vaccinated. And if you confronted the couple on this, that might be their answer – and it would probably be correct, although even without a vaccine they might have had a mild case.
SharonW:
Thing is, even though most of us know scores of people who’ve had mild cases, many of us also know some people who have died of it. And the people who have died of it have not always been very old or very ill to begin with. I know such people myself, more than one. And of course there are many celebrities it’s happened to, as well, some of them fairly young and not seemingly ill before COVID. This tended to happen more often before vaccines, and with Alpha or Delta, but it made a deep impression on people to see this.
It isn’t easy for anxious people to look at the statistics and know they will probably be safe, when they know people who have died and were not seemingly all that much at risk. And they themselves might have risk factors such as age, or overweight, or diabetes, things that are quite common and yet don’t necessarily lead to a quick death.
That’s probably not the explanation for all the fear we see, certainly. But I think it is the reason for some of it, plus the media and government hype of course. Some people are better able to shrug things off and not be afraid, and others are more reactive and fear-prone.
neo:
She had some good reasons and I understood them too, but I couldn’t help but notice that the discussions always moved to criticize only those unvaxxed who were white and conservative.
I mentioned that blacks have strong resistance to the vaxx and she waved that right off.
It’s a typical pattern when I talk to Democrats. The punchline is always conservative villains.
Jimmy:
Yes, some people are really loners and like the excuse.
Others, however, are not really loners but have grown used to being alone and have come to feel safe that way. There’s an element of habit that I forget to mention in the post, but it can be operating as well. Some people figure “I’ve been safe so far doing this, and I feel like I need to continue in order to continue feeling safe.”
Eeyore:
I think there’s a big difference between the panic mongers and the panicked. I’m talking about the latter, for the most part, in this post.
The panic mongers would be the MSM and many in government. People listening to them can react in any number of ways, and some take that panic in (for various personal reasons) and take it very hard and become afraid, sometimes deeply afraid. I think that’s different.
Harpoon:
So you think it’s because they want to be afraid rather than that they are afraid? I agree that there can be overlap. But many of the people I know who actually are afraid don’t seem to want to be afraid at all. One in particular I’m thinking of has no history of that sort of thing prior to COVID; au contraire, actually.
huxley:
For her there was political overlay, too. That certainly happens. But it’s not the only thing driving it – it’s a side benefit, that a person thinks he or she gets to score a political point.
Telemachus; Chris B:
About wanting to be afraid –
I don’t think people who like to watch scary movies or ride on scary rides want to be afraid. Not actually afraid. At least, not most of them. They want the frisson of fear; a soupçon of fear rather than the real anxiety of fearing a disease hitting them or their loved ones. They are playing at fear and playing with a slight and exciting feeling of fear as a game.
People who are truly afraid of horror movies or thrill rides do not tend to watch them or ride them (more than one time, anyway) unless someone forces them in some way, by threats or bullying, or unless they work with a behavior psychologist to de-sensitize themselves to them.
There probably are people who like to actually be afraid in the real sense of fear, but I don’t think they are common. Most of the people who are really afraid of COVID either have a reason for it (they have lots of co-morbidities, for example, and are very old) or have more general problems with anxiety disorder.
Many of the people I know who actually are afraid don’t seem to want to be afraid at all. Some of them have those previously-mentioned factors (OCD would be another predisposing factor).
That’s a generalization, of course, but that’s what I see.
There also are people who seem to get off on telling others what to do and on scaring other people if they can. That’s not necessarily the same people who are themselves afraid.
Griffin @ 4:34pm,
I agree with what you write about society being primed for the response. Also, people in their 20s and younger were raised on a plethora of dystopian stories; along with zombie apocalypse themes (a subset of dystopian narratives).
Neo- yes, and I didn’t mean that there are many people like that. Other people are truly terrified by this.
We have a really sweet friend and neighbor, in spite of being vax’d and boosted, who has barely been out of her house since COVID began. She has even been unwilling to meet her own year-old grandson in person for fear that she might somehow give him COVID. She admits that it is unreasonable but can’t help herself.
I feel bad for people like her.
neo @ 7:45pm,
No question personal knowledge (or knowledge through association on television or the cinema) changes one’s perspective. If the nightly news featured stories on each day’s teens injured or killed in auto accidents mothers would soon be lobbying to have the legal age for driving raised to 21.
I think this is why the news tends to downplay black on white crime. Sometime around the ’70s news agencies became worried of the perception that news fosters. And, unfortunately, this is why so many blacks believe white policemen run rampant in the land, indiscriminately murdering blacks.
Regarding the post and the woman physicsguy wrote of:
I know people who wanted Donald Trump to be seriously ill, even die, when he contracted COVID. I know people who wanted the same for Joe Rogan when he contracted COVID. They could barely conceal their sense of satisfaction when it was reported both had the disease. They wanted college football games to be “super spreader” events, especially those held in the south.
When I heard AOC had it, Justin Trudeau… I hoped they both had asymptomatic or mild cases.
Yes, I think among the Covidiots you have:
-people who are genuinely afraid, either because they have a skewed perception of their chances of dying, or because they really do have a reason to believe they’re one of the unlucky ones who could die
-people who “get off on telling others what to do”
-people with a savior complex who love the idea that there is some catastrophe on the way and that they’re smart enough to know about it and stop it
-people who place an unwarranted and foolish amount of trust in government and other mainstream social institutions
-and also people who remind me of the “circle dance” quote you post from time to time. Some people’s attitude makes me think they’re truly offended some others don’t want to join their circle dance and be “all in this together” with them.
“the public health establishment has now successfully cultivated a large group of people who measure their moral value by just how compliant and panicked they remain over COVID-19.” I think that’s part of it, too. Fear certainly has been made into a virtue in the past several years. There were hints of it predating Covid. It was virtuous to be afraid of guns, global warming, and Trump.
Another thing I’m sincerely confused about:
Very early into the pandemic, I think it was February 2020, I heard a long podcast with a well credentialed, very knowledgeable MD/Scientist who spoke very specifically about aspects of the Virus and the incredibly unlikely statistical probability it evolved naturally. I heard several other well credentialed folks state the same independently, sighting similar or identical scientific reasons regarding the virus’ structure.
Early into lockdowns I heard and read people digesting COVID case/hospitalization/mortality data, extrapolating it out and predicting a very different future than the CDC and WHO. Some of those people were here, including neo. I did my own, daily analysis of CDC data for months and what I saw agreed with what folks like neo, physicsguy and others were corroborating here.
I’m now hearing people who were supposed to do research like that for a living, people like Bari Weiss, piecing the evidence together. There was A LOT of very credible opposition to the narrative. The Barrington Declaration, Alex Berenson’s reports and books. Remember the Diamond Princess cruise ship?! Neo did a great break down of it here. That was about as good as a laboratory as we could have had so early in the outbreak.
Did others not seek any information outside of their chosen bubble? Even if it’s “appeal to experts” (CDC, WHO) there were experts countering the narrative. Did they hear and not listen? Ignore?
In the presence of an existential threat, I can’t imagine not wanting to understand as much as possible, in order to protect myself and others.
Chris B,
I feel sorry for the healthy, 20-somethings I know who live like her.
Neo: I don’t think people like your acquaintance *want* to be afraid. They *are* afraid, and so is everyone around them who listens to the same sources that tell them to be afraid. They’re in a bubble of fear. Some people (and I’m referring just to the people we would consider low-risk) respond to the fear by acting the way the experts tell them to act, even when it requires great sacrifice. Now they feel they are on the team of the good guys, and their sacrifice is for a righteous cause, and it makes them feel good about themselves. Classic cognitive dissonance makes it hard for them to see, and especially to welcome, evidence that those sacrifices aren’t necessary any more.
I like Harpoon’s views. Consider someone who has a boring, predictable, middle-class life where, among other things, safetyism has removed a fair proportion of the unexpected.
Being afraid of Covid is a relief. I’d suggest, based on the folks I presume are in this group, that they like being afraid, considering the alternative, but even more they like DOING SOMETHING. And remarking on others not doing SOMETHING. Then feeling superior. I think the reaction is excessive to the perceived fear, but they need fear as a foundation.
They can’t stand to be without it, so various ideas that, either there’s not much we can do, or there are cheap and effective preventatives or therapeutics, or prescribed actions and other mitigation techniques don’t actually work–see Johns Hopkins–remove the foundation for what might be considered the best time of their–recent–lives.
I’m picturing some people I know as I write this.
Others, however, are not really loners but have grown used to being alone and have come to feel safe that way.
Yes, I was including both types. Many people who weren’t overtly loners discovered that when they aren’t allowed to go to the office, there’s a kind of comfort and safety in not having to interact in person with others, and they grow to like it. But it’s not a healthy way to live.
Jimmy & Neo:
This has been my experience as well. I’ve simply become comfortable working remotely from home, avoiding gatherings, participating only in solo outdoor activities, and shopping almost exclusively online. I have gone months without coming near someone outside of my immediate family. This does not stem from any fear of COVID but simply out of a desire to continue doing what I’ve grown accustomed to.
I’ve been secretly pleased whenever my place of work has pushed back the return to office date due to a local spike in cases or fear over a new variant.
I would guess there is a large group of people who feign fear simply to extend the COVID response that is of some benefit to them.
I have a relative that got thrown into working from home and at first she loved it as she no longer had to commute didn’t have to worry about makeup or dress and saved huge amount on gas but as the months and now years have gone by she has grown to hate it and her gov’t department is now going remote permanently.
It’s not for everyone.
Arthur Koestler wrote about what he called the Tragic and the Trivial planes of life. As explained by his friend, the writer and fighter pilot Richard Hillary:
“K has a theory for this. He believes there are two planes of existence which he calls vie tragique and vie triviale. Usually we move on the trivial plane, but occasionally in moments of elation or danger, we find ourselves transferred to the plane of the vie tragique, with its non-commonsense, cosmic perspective. When we are on the trivial plane, the realities of the other appear as nonsense–as overstrung nerves and so on. When we live on the tragic plane, the realities of the other are shallow, frivolous, frivolous, trifling. But in exceptional circumstances, for instance if someone has to live through a long stretch of time in physical danger, one is placed, as it were, on the intersection line of the two planes; a curious situation which is a kind of tightrope-walking on one’s nerves…I think he is right.”
I think much Woke behavior is an effort by people to get more Vie Tragique in their lives, and this also describes those who seem to somehow *like* being afraid of Covid.
This all relates to something Sebastian Haffner noted in his memoir of life in Germany between the wars, which we’ve discussed here a few times. He said there were people who actually *did not welcome* the stabilization of politics and the economy that seemed to be happening at one point:
“A generation of young Germans had become accustomed to having the entire content of their lives delivered gratis, so to speak, by the public sphere, all the raw material for their deeper emotions…Now that these deliveries suddently ceased, people were left helpless, impoverished, robbed, and disappointed. They had never learned how to live from within themselves, how to make an ordinary private life great, beautiful and worth while, how to enjoy it and make it interesting. So they regarded the end of political tension and the return of private liberty not as a gift, but as a deprivation. They were bored, their minds strayed to silly thoughts, and they began to sulk.”
There is also a search for meaning in an increasingly secular society. It’s often been said that Leftism has become it’s own religion.
As the saying goes when you stop believing in God you don’t believe in nothing you believe in anything. Climate, wokism and now the Covidians all a search for meaning.
I would guess there is a large group of people who feign fear simply to extend the COVID response that is of some benefit to them.
I’m more like Griffin’s @10:54pm’s relative, though I only liked it for a couple of weeks back in March 2020. As a moderately introverted person who had learned to push myself to be more socially interactive, I really started to feel like I’d fallen off the wagon, and I knew it was bad for me, bad for my colleagues, bad for my students (I teach at a university). I was the first one back at the office when it reopened, the first one back teaching in person, and went out to bars and restaurants as soon as possible. So at the risk of causing offense or seeming patronizing, I don’t think it’s really “of benefit” to most people, even if it feels like it at the moment.
I think the vie tragique is a great model.
However. Not many people are fighter pilots trying to land in a crosswind without enough gas to go around and try again. To push a metaphor.
One of my can’t-do-without-it acquaintances….is really big into global warming. Her adult daughter, when I mentioned the Diamond Princess, said, “all lies” before my last syllable had quit disturbing the air.
And, mentioning Y2K as a failed catastrophe, I discovered we were not on the same page. She still thinks we barely dodged a bullet.
Other than masking, and not going to large events–which her family rarely did anyway, she is not inconvenienced.
Consider: She and her husband came to visit us. Four hour round trip. Spent likely a gallon of gas seeing this area which they hadn’t seen in a year but had been familiar to them before. Went through an old-money neighborhood while she lamented about why people had to have so much when others didn’t have much.
Directed us to a lunch consisting of a forgettable sandwich for $25, had a drink, hubby had a beer. Congratulated the waitress on not bringing a straw.
Wondered why people are so blasé about global warming. Which, as it happens, is why our area tempered by the Great Lakes, is cooler in the summer than is Cincinnati.
But, boy is she all over those who don’t do the max about the wu flu.
Speaking only about my personal experience with friends and family, the folks that I know that have been, and continue to be, most concerned about Covid are genuinely concerned for the health and well-being of others and themselves. They follow the news and read and research extensively for the latest information. And they do what most people do: cherry pick the data that confirms their belief, ignore the stuff that contradicts what they believe.
Not a psychologist I cannot explain why they think and act this way. I can say though that these folks tend to be cautious and pessimistic in general. They are not risk takers. At least one is a germaphobe. The precautionary principle for them is a way of life.
I do think there is something to the argument that life for most of us is historically easy so this ‘crisis’ gives some a sense of purpose and meaning. Sad if that is true.
No journalist, in or out of the MSM, ever got a raise for saying :
“Nothing happened today”
If they don’t have a story they’re out of a job, and the more dramatic the story the better.
Some people are taking COVID fear to a whole new level: according to SDA (Small Dead Animals), a “vaccine jihadist” wearing a mask inside his white vehicle tried to run over truckers and their supporters in Winnipeg last night:
http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2022/02/05/vaccine-jihadists/
“Thanks to the media, public health bureaucrats, lock downer politicians and all of the twitter doctors gas lighting the general public for the last two years we now have ‘Vaccine Jihadists’ running people over in the streets. You should all be very proud of yourselves.”
Video and still photo at the link. According to a commenter at SDA, the driver has been arrested.
@Neo what you may want to add to your knowledge armamentarium, is that after someone takes a booster shot, after 2 months they will show a 15-25% antibody level drop-and by 5 months they will be depleted. This is why CDC has changed advisement for boosters from 6 months to 5 months. In the meantime Israel after 2nd set of boosters, and realizing the rapid ineffectiveness, is no longer pushing…for 3rd booster. At some point in time, their efficacy in preventing serious hospitalization as you mentioned is gone. Further, there are other issues with taking repeated shots (antibody dependent enhancement anyone?), particularly when dealing with any coronavirus. I really questioned taking the vaccine back in 12/20, and due to home issue I did in 1/21. But I have not taken the booster to date. I did check my antibody levels recently (more for fun then for any proof of immunity, as it’s still not clear the role of antibodies vs T cells etc) but my level…pretty much zippo. I am in the minority *perhaps* of providers (some don’t do their own research and just swallow what the hospitals or their *betters* tell them, and some are afraid for their positions), but I think for now, no boosters. I’ll keep taking my vit D and if I get an active case of covid (and not just test ‘+’) I will probably take a “cocktail” as advocated by https://covid19criticalcare.com/covid-19-protocols/i-mask-plus-protocol/ Or AAPS (non-commie group of doctors)
It’s not just the normal desire for a frisson of fear, It’s also that we live in an age in which we are ridiculously safe and comfortable, by the standards of all previous humans. We are wired to respond do danger and risk, and we are in short supply of it. We are also wired to seek purpose and narrative and meaning, and our post-relgious age offers little of that, either, except perhaps the idea that we’ve been bad to mother earth and deserve to be punished.
Even when times were hard, we liked to imagine there was an apocalypse, a götterdämmerung, a great flood, coming soon to wipe things new. How much more when we’re fat and unhappy.
I am questioning God to see whether they will authorize me to explain what 2020 Corona actually is and the true meaning of the variants.
It is not what people think, although it is close.
Apocalypse=Revelation=20/20 vision=2020
2020-2022 was a minor attempt at a Reset, to prevent the entire world or species from advancing to God’s vision. This is resistance to solar energy and upgrades. This resistance is seen in the inflammation of 2020, that was not caused by the bio weapon. THe bio weapon made it more difficult to upgrade the DNA from the solar energy.
Omicron is thus the collective herd immunity uploading the defense template to everyone and everyone then detoxes from the blockage.
The problem is that the waxxine injection is designed to stay in the tissues, creating the same blockage, except worse, and transmitting this blockage to other people via transfection.
A lot of the truth came out in February 2020. That Corona was a bio weapon release and various other things Firefly talked about.
“Very early into the pandemic, I think it was February 2020, I heard a long podcast with a well credentialed, very knowledgeable MD/Scientist who spoke very specifically about aspects of the Virus and the incredibly unlikely statistical probability it evolved naturally. I heard several other well credentialed folks state the same independently, sighting similar or identical scientific reasons regarding the virus’ structure.
Early into lockdowns I heard and read people digesting COVID case/hospitalization/mortality data, extrapolating it out and predicting a very different future than the CDC and WHO. Some of those people were here, including neo. I did my own, daily analysis of CDC data for months and what I saw agreed with what folks like neo, physicsguy and others were corroborating here.
I’m now hearing people who were supposed to do research like that for a living, people like Bari Weiss, piecing the evidence together. There was A LOT of very credible opposition to the narrative. The Barrington Declaration, Alex Berenson’s reports and books. Remember the Diamond Princess cruise ship?! Neo did a great break down of it here. That was about as good as a laboratory as we could have had so early in the outbreak.
Did others not seek any information outside of their chosen bubble? Even if it’s “appeal to experts” (CDC, WHO) there were experts countering the narrative. Did they hear and not listen? Ignore?”-R
What essentially happened was that the darkstate attempted to reset back humanity’s progress, but these results inevitably ended up also upgrading the awareness of humanity. It just took 2 years.
You live in God and Satans’ simulation. They create the very plot you experience. THis is all a test and what was seen was people failing the totalitarian test in 2020 via obedience and mistaking abuse for love.
Freddie deBoer’s account of the emergence and evolution of this perspective illustrates its significance as a manifestation of political culture. And it’s one that his commenters obviously recognize, even those who are commenting to defend themselves from his criticisms.
This is the latest of the articles he’s written on the subject – the earlier ones are worth a read as well.
https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/one-more-time-what-do-you-want-us
It was virtuous to be afraid of guns, global warming, and Trump.
I know people like this. Some are my children (Not all of them).
Back about February 2020, I learned about Hydroxychloroquine and prescribed a supply for each of my kids. The lefties accepted it, too.
Most of it is political morality. For most democrat voters, their political ideology is the source of their feelings of moral superiority. People are getting the shot, giving the shot to their young kids, and wearing masks because they want to show political solidarity. They’ve been told relentlessly that opposition to masks and shots is the choice of conservatives. In their circles, conservatives have been slandered so viciously and so thoroughly that they will do nearly anything to distance themselves from the “othered” ones.
It’s also about a willingness to defer to authority. A lot of people need desperately to feel like someone knows, that someone has control, that someone has all the answers. These people naturally support Democrats. Covid just emphasizes that.
Can anyone identify liberals who actually think? Why is the number so tiny?Examine why Greenwald, Weinstein, Taibbi, Berenson, and Weiss are hated so passionately by liberals. The source of that fury is the same source of the willingness to accept covid restrictions in lockstep. It has nothing to do with logic or rationality. It’s all religious.
A generation of young Germans had become accustomed to having the entire content of their lives delivered gratis, so to speak, by the public sphere, all the raw material for their deeper emotions…Now that these deliveries suddently ceased, people were left helpless, impoverished, robbed, and disappointed.
–Sebastian Haffner
david foster:
I’ve read this quote from you before. I don’t have a good idea how many people these were and how true this description was. Certainly Haffner has more authority than I do and he does not assert this as true for all Germans at the time.
As an American of my generation, I was fascinated by Herman Hesse. His books, “Demian” and “The Glass Bead Game,” affected me deeply. I marveled that a German of the pre-Nazi era could write with such resonance for young Americans in the 60s/70s, while he was also popular with young Germans of his time.
It turns out there was a proto-hippie movement in Germany at the time: the Wandervogel:
____________________________________
The Wandervögel seem to have started an anti-authoritarian rebellion against German society at large, with their focus on the youth values in opposition to the adult ones.
–https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wandervogel
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Germany must have been a complicated place in those days. Of course, once Hitler took full power, the Wandervogel was outlawed and young people were funneled into the Hitler Youth.
Tina:
There’s a ton of evidence that boosters are effective at preventing serious cases and deaths. I’m well aware that they lose effectiveness over time, but here’s some data on what’s most important, which is protection against serious illness rather than protection against mild illness:
One of the things that’s happening with Omicron is that more and more people are getting mild infections and more immunity (especially coupled with their shots). The disease may continue on as a much milder thing, but the serious death-dealing pandemic would be on the way out.
A friend of mine is using COVID to rationalize and excuse her agoraphobia. During most of 2020 and 2021 she refused to leave home because her husband died while her daughter was young and she promised her 35-year-old daughter she wouldn’t put herself at risk of dying.
More recently she said she’s afraid to go out because she has a paper to present to a conference in June and she doesn’t want to be sick for it.
It’s obvious that she just wants an excuse to stay home with her dog.
‘Understanding The COVID Odds’
https://www.city-journal.org/understanding-the-covid-odds
Mark Gist:
I don’t think it’s obvious at all.
I would say it’s possible. But what I think may be likely is that she has an anxiety disorder that may be partly organic and partly learned. That doesn’t mean such people don’t sometimes get what’s called “secondary gains” from such disorders.
@Neo No argument that the booster helps *in the short run*. But because of Antibody Dependent Enhancement I think the booster will be detrimental in the long run-my concern of this increased with the data we are seeing out of Israel. My reluctance to take the booster was also underlined last fall when Pfizer tried to block release of its data. This also makes me wish I had followed my training and instincts and not taken a novel vaccine. In any case, new meds, new vaccines, new tech of most sorts—best to have some data and time. And of course to top it all off—forcing vaccines on kids when they have such minimal effects from the virus goes against the Hippocratic Oath (and all of the other oats such as Oath of Lous Lasagna, etc)- first do no harm. Doctors have allowed an injustice to their patients.
Tina:
I’ve read the data indicating ultimate negative effects from boosters and I’m not at all convinced. If they keep suggesting booster after booster after booster in rapid succession, however, I would be reluctant.
I don’t think COVID vaccination is a good idea for young children unless perhaps the child is quite ill or immune-compromised.