Arizona and Utah are worlds apart
Yesterday Arizona went for Trump in its primary, and Utah went for Cruz. But that simple statement doesn’t even begin to express the difference in the outcomes in the two states, which symbolizes the split in the Republican Party.
In Arizona, Trump got about 45% of the vote, still failing to break 50%. This is the pattern that has been established so far even in the states Trump has won. In addition, “other” was a large group in Arizona, getting more votes than Kasich (who did poorly; about 10%). For example, because there is a great deal of early voting in Arizona, Rubio (who dropped out only fairly recently) got quite a few votes and actually beat Kasich. That sort of thing is one of the reasons I have suggested that early voting should not be an option in primaries; it’s absurd.
Utah is a caucus state, and Cruz won resoundingly with Trump doing very very poorly: almost 70% for Cruz and 14% for Trump, who did worse there than Kasich, who received about 17% of the vote. Utah is a conservative state, and the contrast with Arizona could not be greater.
Both states run closed primaries/caucuses. However, “closed” doesn’t always mean that crossovers can’t occur. In fact, it’s actually rather easy; for example, in Arizona, all a person has to do is register 29 days ahead of the primary as a member of the party (in Arizona, the Mar. 22 primary is technically referred to a “presidential preference election”). We have no way of knowing how many Democrats registered as Republicans in Arizona for the sake of voting Trump; maybe a lot, maybe a few. Nor do we know their motives: actual support of Trump that would transfer to a general election, or a desire to muck up the works for the GOP.
We do know that turnout was high in both states. But we also don’t know what that means, except that it indicates voter intensity.
Onward.
Utah is growing fast but the Mormon population is still about 60%. Other republicans there are middle class or business types. Trumps loose personal morals don’t play well and so does his destructive style. Arizona is a mix of retirees, Californian refugees and Hispanics. Trump caught the old and young population. Kasich and others got the Hispanic and business types
Perhaps political parties that can make up any rules they want shouldn’t have any tax payer help in their stupid primaries. Further more any system that requires people to reveal their preferences as a condition of voting is repugnant.
What happens in proportional states to the delegates Rubio and other dropped candidates would have won if they had stayed in? Would their votes just not be considered at all and the total delegates awarded to the remaining candidates? How about the delegates Rubio won when he was still in the race – can he pledge them to Cruz on the first or subsequent ballots, or not at all?
Lurker:
These are not votes as in votes for the presidency or for other public office. They are party primaries, which mean that a party is choosing its candidate through them. There is no “right” to vote in a primary jut through being a citizen of a certain age. Parties can and should set the rules for voting in primaries, and IMHO it is open primaries that are repugnant and pervert the intent of the party members, who have every right to choose their own nominee.
geokstr:
I believe they join the other delegates for the dropped out candidate. That person doesn’t even have to “release” them; in most states, they are not bound, even on the first ballot (in some states they are). The candidate can guide them by endorsing another candidate, but they are free to vote for the candidate of their choice.
“How dangerous is the acquirement of knowledge and how much happier that man is who believes his native town to be the world, than he who aspires to be greater than his nature will allow.”
― Mary Shelley, Frankenstein
and in terms of voters today:
“I do know that for the sympathy of one living being, I would make peace with all. I have love in me the likes of which you can scarcely imagine and rage the likes of which you would not believe. If I cannot satisfy the one, I will indulge the other.”
― Mary Shelley, Frankenstein
“When falsehood can look so like the truth, who can assure themselves of certain happiness?”
― Mary Shelley, Frankenstein
One thing i really like about Trump, and not attributable to him directly, is that he brings out the truth in people, he brings out the hippocrites and exposes them.
after all, if your going to defend the constitution, and then your going to silence, block, and ridicule peoples choices when you dont approve of them, then your no better than the stalinists one pretends to fight.
[this is NOT in any way shape or form about NEO. in fact, this period in our electoral history has sorted those who are actually for constitutional protection and the rule of law, from those who are the same as what they dont like, and if they had the power would do the same thing over other points. NEO has NEVER done this, she has always let the cards fall, even if she does not agree… it makes her and her blog exceptional in a world where exceptional is as rare as hens teeth. we dont always agree, lord knows no one actually always agrees, but its not the actions we take when in agreement that matter, its the actions we take when not in agreement that separates those who actually adhere to the tenets they promote, from those who pretend to, and would protect nothing once in place or power to act]
if a person says they are for the constitution, then goes one sided on news, belittles his own side, attacks people for not liking that, and then blocks, bans, and so on (as moonbattery is now doing with vigor).
are they really respecting the founders, their ideas, the constituational foundation, etc.
Cruz people are showing that they are often just as bad as the hillary people or others!! not all, but its enough that they have created for themselves a no win situation.
do not attack trump, and he wins
attack trump, and he wins bigger
attack his followers, and he wins bigger
the truth of it, and Obama proves it, that a person who wanted to change the USA in a very extreme way, with a super majority, could not do it. Trump wont have that, even if he has the supermajority!!! he cant do half of the bad that Obama did…
as far as international stuff, there is no real trouble there, as the game is posing and playing… otherwise, people could not deal with overt despots, tyrants, and such in the same room, let alone work out deals with them.
no one who isnt already wanting a war will start one for trumps mouth no matter what he says!!!!! he can insult every world leader and nothing will cahnge because the driver of all this is not mouths, but outcomes… and they wont cost themselves and their nation great pain and ill over a mouth. if they do, then they are even worse and crazier than anything we could vote in.
1974 — Dawa Killings
1980 — Fayli Deportations and Killings
1983 — Barzani Abductions
1988 — Al-Anfal Campaign
1988 — Halabja Gassing
1990s — Marsh Arabs Devastated
1990 — Invasion of Kuwait
it wasnt until the last one that people modified their behavior towards the man, and were willing to go to war to remove him. and if he did not do that, under the stupid words of a western american lady diplomat who wasnt careful with her mouth, he would probably still be here!!!
want to go down the list of crimes that iran has been a part of since reagan?
didnt obama just deal with them?
isnt the man runnign the country one of the terrorists that held people back when jimmy carter was president?
how about China? murders 100 million of their own people, has tons of crimes, and humanitarian bad, and we moved all our factories there, and more?
wake up people…
you may think poorly of trum, and dont like you cant quantify outcomes, but dont think that you can with any other candidate either… its just that you think so, and with him you cant think so. but the truth is the same for both, especially when the big bailed out banks are in the mix donating to both sides!!!
the truth is that when people look to Cruz wife, we are not being silly, we are being cognizant of people do not marry their polar opposites if their positions are meaningful and matter!!! yes, some politicians have, but for the most part, they do not believe in their points in a meaningful way, they believe in them as a means to an end in that way… so its not like your looking at a black racist marrying a white supremecist… those both believe in meaninful ways in which they cant get around their beliefs to even sit with others and learn let alone be married, have sex, and agree on childrens upbringing
fear is not the reason ot dislike trump
and false safety is not the reason to like cruz
[edited for length by n-n]
By the way, i am from an immigrant family. most of my girlfriends as such have been immigrants. my wife has a greencard…
i can tell you from being on the inside of this that the legal immigrants from spanish places (prior girlfriend) do not like or side with the illegals despite what the mainstream news portrays, and the cubans here mostly hate castro and not what the MSM makes them out to be.
i have spent hours listening to them complain and not like how they are sullied and tarnished by the actions, behaviors and such of the illegals. its not like we make distinctions that way, so they get lumped together, even though economically, behaviorally, and criminally they are worlds apart.
in the asian community, they make this distinction as well… and they dont like the idea of peole who dont work getting stuff from them. i have sat many a time quiet in the car listeing to thempointing to buildings and complaining how things are under the liberal ideas.
i also grew up in an immigrant family from europe, where i was one of the few born here, and its much the same despite language and cultural diferences.
you dont think that legal spanish immigrants like their jobs diluted? their reputations sullied? their lack of ability to close or stop that?
the black community sticks up for its thugs, but thats about the only one that does that, others do NOT like that nor stick up for it.
yes, there are good illegals
yes, there are bad legals
yes, there are grays in that mix
but if your looking for the left to tell the truth, dont hold your breath unless you have a coffin ready
and note that the argument between nationalist and globalist is the same argument as individuals vs collective…
loving your home is not the same as being hitler nor was hitlers nationalism key as they make out… because taking over other places makes you a globalist not a nationalist…
thre are only two choices, either love your individual home, or love a global collective… without realizing that, you can easily accept the not national ideas and not think about what that means when the choices are mutually exclusive and there is no third choice to select
I wonder if there is anyway that Cruz could rid himself of that sniffling Pillsbury Dough-boy and hysteric Glenn Beck?
Might help his campaign.
The split is really Mormons. Both Idaho and Utah are heavily Mormon states. They chose Cruz. Mormons are not the whole of the Republican party. Since American Samoa is 25% Mormon, my guess is Cruz won there as well? Haven’t seen the results.
Arizona is more like the rest of America. I keep hearing that Cruz will do better ‘in the West,’ but Trump now has won AZ and NV. He seems to be doing just fine in the West.
Trump is ahead 10 points in California according to RCP.
Wondering when Cruz will see his path to a nomination is impossible. I am thinking he may be just like Kasich, hoping to draw away enough delegates so that Trump somehow falls short of the 1237 so that there is a contested convention. That would be very very sad.
Artfldgr Says:
March 23rd, 2016 at 10:36 am
One thing i really like about Trump, and not attributable to him directly, is that he brings out the truth in people, he brings out the hippocrites and exposes them.
after all, if your going to defend the constitution, and then your going to silence, block, and ridicule peoples choices when you dont approve of them, then your no better than the stalinists one pretends to fight.
[this is NOT in any way shape or form about NEO. in fact, this period in our electoral history has sorted those who are actually for constitutional protection and the rule of law, from those who are the same as what they dont like, and if they had the power would do the same thing over other points. NEO has NEVER done this, she has always let the cards fall, even if she does not agree… it makes her and her blog exceptional in a world where exceptional is as rare as hens teeth. we dont always agree, lord knows no one actually always agrees, but its not the actions we take when in agreement that matter, its the actions we take when not in agreement that separates those who actually adhere to the tenets they promote, from those who pretend to, and would protect nothing once in place or power to act]
***
Here are several things we agree on.
From what I’ve seen, K-E’s point about Mormons is correct. I just saw a comment somewhere else noting that Latter-Day Saints are the one major conservative religious group that is against Trump.
Trump’s comments about Romney’s religious beliefs probably hurt him in Utah as well. Criticism along religious lines tends to cause Mormons to circle the wagons.
> That would be very very sad.
Why? I think it would be great.
> Trump’s comments about Romney’s religious beliefs probably hurt him in Utah as well.
Hard to tell, but he definitely isn’t popular. Trump disses lots of potential allies, he is a party of one. If he is the nominee that will cost him.
Utah was a Democrat state when I got here, the governor and both my senator and representative were Democrats. It was McGovern and the 1972 election that precipitated the revolution. If Trump is the Republican nominee it could have interesting consequences.
At least one first-hand report by an experienced politically astute attendee says that the Utah caucuses were about as trustworthy as a Chicago election.
UTAH CAUCUS: First hand insider report – Incompetence, Manipulation, and Ballot Stuffing!!!
Here, the GOPe exposes its raw side as indistinguishable from Dem’ party hacks in their frantic attempts to stop Trump.
Did I really vote for Romney in ’12.
Jeezus.
K-E,
No, it would be good for Cruz personally, and for the Republican Party, to stay in, even if, at some point, he is mathematically eliminated.
I said that Cruz hiring Neil Bush was a problem, and an indication
NOW its coming forward… And it WILL hurt Cruz…
but how can Cruz claim to be anti-estblishment when he stocks his team with estblishments old time rogue gallery?
Ted Cruz, A Bush By Another Name
http://dailycaller.com/2016/03/10/ted-cruz-a-bush-by-another-name/
Nothing like a man like that on your campaign team when your campaign claims to want to clean up washington and get rid of those kinds of people… (that includes abrams who did worse than Neil)
and if THAT wasnt enough!
The Bush-Cruz connection is clear. Ted was George W.’s brain when he ran for president. A top policy adviser, Ted maneuvered for Solicitor General in Bush World but settled for a plum at the Federal Trade Commission. Ted’s a Bush man with deep ties to the political and financial establishment. Ted and wife Heidi brag about being the first “Bush marriage” — they met as Bush staffers. Cruz was an adviser on legal affairs while Heidi was an adviser on economic policy and eventually director for the Western Hemisphere on the National Security Council under Condoleezza Rice. Condi helped give us the phony war in Iraq. Heidi then went to the Bush U.S. Trade Representative as a top deputy to U.S. Trade Rep. Robert Zoellick, who wired Heidi’s membership in the Council on Foreign Relations and job at Goldman Sachs. The bailed-out bank then loaned Cruz $1 million secretly to finance his Senate race. Crux would also borrow an undisclosed $1 million loan from Citicorp.
Cruz has become quite adroit at saying one thing while his history shows him doing the other. Rather than the outsider he claims to be, Ted Cruz is the ultimate insider, former top Bush 41 policy aide and globalist, Ivy Leaguer, and establishment insider.
More and neo will cut me down…
so go to the link and read… then do your own research..
@brdavis9
Yeah, I read that. It is complete bullshit for where I voted, and I suspect for where PirateMonkey voted also. That is, if he actually voted. My immediate reaction is to write it off as crap from a disgruntled Trump supporter who had no idea what was going on and evidently didn’t know any of his neighbors.
The above also clues you in on why Jeb Bush endorsed someone!!!
UTAH VOTER SHOCK: ‘I literally had over 50 ballots in my hand’…
We elected Precinct Officers, State Delegates, and County Delegates – the typical incompetence and ignorance of the rules you’d expect to see from volunteers, but all went somewhat smooth.
…Then came the Presidential Ballot.
Someone shows up with a stack of probably 250 ballots. The precinct chair splits them up, and starts handing stacks of them out and tells people “take one and pass it down”.
No checking credentials, IDs, NOTHING.
I’m sitting at the end of a row and people start handing me stacks of extras. I literally had over 50 ballots in my hand.
We were told to mark our vote and place our ballot in a tin can. They then asked for a volunteer to hold the can. At this point, most people filed out the door.
I cast ONE vote, then stuck around to see what would happen with the votes.
About 15 minutes later, with only about 10 or so people milling around, someone walks in the room with an envelopes STUFFED full of “absentee” ballots – some envelopes having 2-5+ ballots.
I raised a question and said, “isn’t there an absentee process already in place? Didn’t people have to register for that last week?” and was told “Oh no, this is completely normal”.
As I’ve mentioned in other threads, I was in Party leadership for 6 years and no, this is absolutely not normal.
I then asked if I could observe the vote count, and I was told my observations where not needed and to leave the area while the ballots were being counted.
I left the room (things were already a complete Charlie Foxtrot at this point) and wandered over to my friends precinct caucus to see if it was just as much a cluster.
His caucus was just getting to the presidential ballot, and as I walked in the door I was handed ANOTHER BALLOT.
Again, no credential check, no ID check, NOTHING.
No, I didn’t vote again…
I went back to my precinct and they had the results:
74% Cruz
14% Trump
11% Kasich
Now just imagine this kind of outright incompetence/manipulation happening in 2000 precincts across the state.
As I left the building, I started overhearing results coming back from other precincts… Overwhelmingly numbers for Cruz… Like 70-90% or more. (In one precinct Cruz got around 100, Trump had 2, Kasich 0)
Bottom line… They basically are going to post whatever the hell numbers they want.
There were no apparent controls, no credential checks, no ID checks, and ballots being handed around like napkins.
UTAH RESULTS ARE A COMPLETE SHAM
and to validate that witness in the news:
Massive Voter Fraud — TONIGHT IN Utah’s GOP Primary?!?!
http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/massive-voter-fraud-tonight-utah-primary/
MAJOR questions are being raised about Utah’s very unusual internet-based voting process.
A bombshell report shows that the technology to conduct web-based voting comes from Smartmatic Group, which is based in England. Currently, the chairman of Smartmatic is Lord Mark Malloch-Brown, who also is on the board of billionaire liberal Geroge Soros’ Open Society Foundation and has personal ties to the billionaire.
More than a half-million dollars have been donated to Ohio Governor John Kasich’s Super PAC from Soros-related hedge fund managers.
@brdavis9
Just to clarify, my caucus had about the same number of people, ~80, and was held in a single school room. In order to get in:
1. Check with the door guardians.
2. Show my drivers license.
3. Get checked off the list of Republican voters.
4. Initial my name on the list.
5. Get a card with my name and signed by the guardian
True the ballots were handed around, but no big deal. In order to deposit my ballot I needed to turn in the card issued in step 5. above. I will also say that the precincts are by neighborhood, and people in the neighborhood know each other by church attendance if nothing else. I’m not particularly sociable and don’t attend the LDS church, nor any other, but still knew my closest neighbors. Nor was there any politicking for the presidential candidates before the vote, a vote that came last after electing precinct officers. The chances that there was massive fraud at my precinct level is about zero. I will say that there was an unvoiced anti Trump undercurrent, but that just means that my neighbors are as smart as myself 😉
I saw a report from a Utah caucus site last night. Chuck it sounds like you had a very small caucus group. The report I saw showed two separate classrooms in a school filled with caucus goers. And I don’t believe those were the only 2 rooms being used for the caucus site. So the description the one person online provided could certainly have happened at a larger site with more turn-out.
Look, I never doubted that Cruz would win Utah, just based on his numbers in Idaho (southern Idaho is like part of Utah…and where most of the population of Idaho lives). However, it was very important for Cruz to get more than 50% of the vote so that he got all the delegates, so I am suspicious of the blow-out numbers.
But it will not mean anything once we get into April. Cruz really has almost no way of winning enough delegates at this point.
holy moly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Breaking: Bobby Jindal Just Made A HUGE Announcement — Trump Is Smiling!
No longer in the race, Jindal has watched the political establishment attack and smear Trump… They have called Trump “racist,” “bigoted,” and even shared pictures from his wife’s modeling days.
But Jindal has had enough! He has rejected the “Never Trump” movement, and made a bold announcement that he’s standing WITH Trump!
“The GOP establishment is done for,” he said on MSNBC’s Meet the Press. “This race shows that.”
Jindal believes Trump’s success is a “death knell” for establishment Republicans, who don’t seem to understand why the primary voting base is so upset.
http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/breaking-bobby-jindal-just-made-huge-announcement-trump-smiling/
> The report I saw showed two separate classrooms in a school filled with caucus goers.
There were a large number of rooms filled with caucus goers because there are a large number of precincts. I’m in the 33-rd precinct and there are 32 others, so there were 33 rooms filled with caucus goers for Logan. You can see the precinct map here. Logan has a population of about 48,000 spread over those 33 precincts. Yes, it was a crowd, the room was stuffed.
@chuck –
I’ll post a link to your comment(s) on the thread, and see what he says about your experience.
Yeah. I’m pretty sure he’s a Trump supporter. He copied his blog to Hot Gas post too, after all.
Whether that also makes him coincidentally someone “…who had no idea what was going on and evidently didn’t know any of his neighbors” may be a bit too much to read into what hardly seems like an account from a – if I may paraphrase your implication? – “overly committed ignoramus”?
I would note he remarks that he served as whatever-the-Utah caucuses-call a “precinct captain” for a term or three in the past, which would seem to belie your judgment call that he “doesn’t know what he’s doing“.
So all things being equal – and giving equal weight to both of you – I’d say he might after all know exactly what was going on.
Ah, chuck, you made it seem as if your entire caucus group was made up of 80 people. You just meant the room you were in.
I attended my Utah precinct caucus–in Orem, Utah. It was run very much by the book. Ballots handed out individually. Little or no possibility for hanky panky. I know four of the people who counted ballots. They’d die before they cheated.
We had around 200 people vote as I recall. Went heavily for Cruz, then Kasich, then Trump. Results mirrored the ultimate tally for the state.
> you made it seem as if your entire caucus group was made up of 80 people.
It was. The precincts caucus separately as the main business is selecting officers for the precinct.
…thanks @Gregory. Good to hear a confirmation.
FWIW (because I changed my comment name this month …and it might help to know where someone – who mostly lurks, outside the active political seasons – is coming from): Cruz supporter. (I have no choice but to be for Cruz: too old to change.)
But I’m not rabidly anti-Trump. Frankly, I don’t get the – what seems to me – over-the-top animus to Trump. And worse, to Trump supporters.
Which seems so much worse this season than usual.
It is unnecessary and as-should-be-obvious, acutely counter-productive.
My “feelings” (if you will) are that Trump has attracted a remarkable and varied base of support across the American political spectrum.
My feeling (based upon my own peculiar logic and observations from afar) is that – along with the disgruntled of the GOP base, always a factor, but particular so since the Tea Pary – a great number of these “new voters” are blue-dog Democrats who are abandoning their party because their two choices appear to them as a soon-to-be-indicted political hack they all know is guilty as sin and should already be in jail, or a communist symp’ that they just don’t have the stomache for …and it’s finally a bridge too far. They’re done.
They may not be politically astute (and they’re certainly not ideologues), but they’re not idiots. They’re looking around, and they see Trump, and they like what they see.
It still a free country with secret ballots; they can change their minds if they want to and no one the wiser.
They’re not talking about it (i.e., their Trump Conversion) because they’re Democrats …and this is skewing any reliability the polls may have ever once had to the nines.
And is the single reason I don’t believe Hil’ has the remotest chance against Trump in the general: the polls are clueless, because everyone is lying about what they think.
(If you live in a particularly liberal conclave, you probably haven’t noticed this, so you’re forgiven lol.)
If I’m even remotely right, it’s insane to demonize these people with what seems to me as such gleeful abandon.
And the GOPe threatening a third party alternative?
Omigawd. “Off with their heads.” We’re straight through the mirror and into Carroll Country.
…and thanks for your followup details @chuck.
brdavis9:
If you don’t get the animus to Trump supporters, visit a few blog comment sections that have been taken over by some of them.
Not this comment section, but that’s because I get rid of the worst ones–the ones who are extremely nasty trolls who use ad hominems, call everyone who doesn’t like Trump a RINO or establishment tool, move the goalposts, don’t respond to rational arguments, name call, threaten, insult, etc. etc..
The animus to those people—who tend to be vocal and numerous, both on blogs and on other media websites—is well-earned.
My objections to Trump have been well-aired on this blog, and although you may not agree with them I think they are clear, rational, and based on his words and behavior.
Plus, I believe he will lose to Hillary Clinton in the general. I’ve described why in other posts, as well.
ANTI-TRUMP PROTESTERS Admit Answering Craigslist Ad and Getting Paid to Protest Trump
then…
this is not about the idea that trump would make hillary win, its about trump winning, prosecuting hillary, and using his big ego to be historically famous for breakingthe socialist cadre… its also about putting in the establishment bad cop cruz, to hillary good cop..
[edited for length by n-n]
Just to corroborate what Neo wrote –
Yesterday Ace briefly shut down the comments on his blog. He’d intended to shut them down for the entire day, but accidentally left them on for a subsequent post, and decided to leave them on provided things stayed calm. The reason for the shut down was the absolutely toxic nature of many of the comments that have been appearing.
He also banned a number of commentors, including at least one long-time regular who seems to have let his blood pressure get the better of him.
Now it’s true that not all of the bad comments over at Ace’s blog are pro-Trump. But a lot of them are. And both the for and against Trump sides seem to feed off of each other in a constant escalation. Further, even though things have been much calmer over at Ace’s blog since then yesterday’s events, I keep seeing posts from people (who I never recognize) that basically challenge Ace’s right to make posts against Trump (Ace has made it clear that he doesn’t support Trump), or ban commentors on his own blog. These are, in essence, apparent Trump supporters who feel that they’re entitled to call Ace out for not agreeing with Trump and/or banning people who get particularly rude and insulting in the comments.
A lot of the pro-Trump and anti-Trump people are just fine. But there seems to be at least a few who are determined to agitate things until they can “convince” everyone else to come around to their side of things. And if aren’t immediately convinced by whatever argument they make, then you are obviously a shill for the GoP Establishment.
And again, just to be fair, there are some anti-Trump people who cross lines as well.
In short, it’s a lot less civil over at Ace’s place, and a lot of the reason for that seems to be tied to Trump supporters. Or possibly trolls masquerading as Trump supporters.
junior:
It’s more than a few, unfortunately. There are many many such people causing difficulties on many blogs, and each one is very prolific with his/her comments. I’m not sure whether they are paid agitators or volunteers, but it seems very organized and they all pretty much sound alike.
Oh, and a lot of them use shifting IP numbers that originate in places like New Zealand, Australia, Hong Kong.
> but it seems very organized and they all pretty much sound alike.
Pretty much sound alike is the key bit. Though that doesn’t mean they are coordinated by some central authority. My impression is they function more as mechanical repeaters of memes, insults, and “facts” that they read elsewhere. Which is easy to do if you don’t need to stoop to argument, plus there is the emotional payoff for running your mouth with the crowd and calling other folks names. Trump just sets the tone.
artfldgr,
It is no secret that Ted Cruz and his future wife worked for GWB, and that Ted served in GWB’s administration. Thus, he has connections to the Bush family; although Jeb! and Dubya later viewed him as too extreme. Would Cruz be more pure if he had supported and/or worked for Gore, Kerry, or Obama like say, Trump?
No one is saying Cruz is ‘pure’. No one is saying Cruz is the shining knight sent to save America (except for scrambled eggs Beck). What we as Cruz supporters are saying is look at his record and compare that to Trump’s record, compare Cruz’s demeanor to that of Trump, and think about each candidates chances at the voting booth in November.
We all make judgments based on our filters or lack of filters to discriminate between candidates. I made my choice, you have made your choice. So be it, that is my right and your right.
Neo-neocon wrote:
I agree!
In California we have “jungle” primaries (a/k/a nonpartisan blanket primaries or top-two primaries) in all but presidential races, which means Republicans will rarely get to run any candidates in big city or state-wide general elections.
The “top two” primaries do sometimes return interesting results, though. I remember a few years ago (2012, I think), two Republican candidates took the top spots in a heavily Democratic district because the Dem votes were split among too many candidates.
😛
For Presidential primaries, the Republicans have a closed primary. But my recollection is that the Democratic presidential primary is open. Though it generally doesn’t matter since the primary is almost always over by the time California votes.
They’re not talking about it (i.e., their Trump Conversion) because they’re Democrats
Traitors that voted for Hussein in 2008, didn’t like their check in the mail and now want their own white tyrant on the throne to fix the problems they helped cause.
Not gonna work.
In short, it’s a lot less civil over at Ace’s place, and a lot of the reason for that seems to be tied to Trump supporters. Or possibly trolls masquerading as Trump supporters.
Democrat gonna Demon Rat, that’s what they do. It’s bred in their cultural bones when they voted for 2008. Voting for Trump now isn’t going to drastically change their SOP. A hammer to the head and knee will though.
I’m not sure whether they are paid agitators or volunteers, but it seems very organized and they all pretty much sound alike.
A lot of the white welfare class is on Trump’s side. They are unemployed, just like black activists. This is their job.
It’s not well known, but when LBJ used welfare to break the black middle class, the poor whites were also affected. Welfare Deconstructions spread to their communities as well. The media just never cares to show case it. They voted Democrat to get the bennies, to keep their communities floating. With the Hussein economy crashing, that is no longer sufficient.
Hussein crashing the coal industry didn’t help either.
Nobody ever calls Trump’s internet activists Democrat traitors and Hussein voters, although I don’t pay very close attention to social media. Either they haven’t figured it out yet… or they lack confirmation due to internet anonymity. Well, if they have, congratulations, I concur with that assessment.
Why don’t you Trump supporters just come out and say what you’re thinking:
Mormons are the new Jews, they are conspiring to thwart the election of Glorious Leader, and you want them rounded up and put in camps as enemies of the state.
Maybe you can try deporting them to Israel if Trump wins.
Matt, I just thought up an interesting trick. Probe one of those internet Trump activists with the “Swiftboat” thing, and see how they respond.
Because there’s a way to tell if they were supporters of Kerry’s Swiftboat propaganda line or not.
Sigh.
I rest my case.
Now we know at last, there is a vast rightwing conspiracy lead by Frankenstein, to deny Trump his well deserved coronation because DJT is YUGE! This what happens when the adults abdicate in favor of the angst ridden, hormone fueled teenagers.
To paraphase Ray Davies:
This the age of twitter
A digital facebook apocalypse
A utopian dream of safe space
LGBT, jihad, multicultural suicide.
I am a 21st century man
But Trump is not the answer
Too much aggravation
I don’t want to be here.
Ymarsakar:
I don’t think this is the “white welfare class” for the most part. As I said, a lot of them have foreign IP numbers.
Let’s presume Trump is president: Is he so flaky and impulsive that the system will bog down, or bog him down?
I could see nothing getting done at all. Undoing some things (ACA) might happen, but Trump’s initiatives could be DOA.