Differences: Thatcher vs. Reagan, British vs. American conservatives — 11 Comments
DGaulle was a conservative – but no friend of America.
What ever you think, please never refer to the Bush Family as conservative.
Another article I read today on Thatcher and Reagan pointed out these icons had practical limits, the art of the possible: Thatcher never took on the NHS, and Reagan never took on Medicare.
And that is why the Left, in the past 100+ years always wins, longterm: in power they take two steps forward, and, in (often bitter) defeat, they (and we) take only one step back. Now they are inexorable. We are too far down the road.
brooklyn boy says “What ever you think, please never refer to the Bush Family as conservative.”
BB, methinks that like many you are too hung up on labels. In my own opinion, which I greatly respect, both Bush 41 and Bush 43 were excellent Presidents, regardless of whatever label is hung on them.
But, if you really want to debate the relative Conservatism of those two versus so-called Conservative Icons, I could trot out numerous decisions by Ronald Reagan that would not fit your template. Just as a tease, I would start with amnesty for illegal aliens. Oh sure, it was a one time solution to the problem of 3 million illegals in the U.S. Or not.
I might then follow up with sending Marines to Beirut with no defined mission; then pulling the survivors out with our national tail between its legs after over 200 were slaughtered. That spells national weakness to the predators in the Arab world.
So, do your home work my good fellow.
I revere and respect Reagan. But, although you do not say so, I strongly suspect that you use a mythical image of him to denigrate others. Highly objectionable. Oh, and Reagan followed Carter. He had a low threshold to cross. l expect that any Republican who follows Obama will look both good and relatively Conservative. The country will be ready, as it was for RR.
On the other hand, if doctrinaire Conservatives spit on the next Republican candidate as they did on Romney, the country may well be lost.
That Bush 43 has never said one anti-Obama, anti-Dem thing, not one, speaks volumes.
Don Carlos: yes, but what do those volumes say? They say that Bush has a certain (probably out of date) idea of statesmanship, dignity, and what is owed the office of the presidency. He apparently made a vow to shut up about Obama.
I’m not at all sure that Bush dissing Obama would help the conservative cause, either. But his lack of dissing certainly doesn’t mean he approves of him.
That was one of the more intelligent exchanges on the Thatcher legacy.
For those that say the left never takes a step back you have to remember that Tony Blair never once tried to reverse Thatcher’s anti-union legislation (removal of the closed shop, compulsory ballots, outlawing ‘flying pickets’ and so on), even though he was in power ten years. And I don’t think a contemporary Labour party will ever be as far left as it was in the early 80’s. If you think Obama is extreme you should take a look at the 1983 Labour election manifesto, once famously referred to as “The longest suicide note in history”, including such lovelies as immediate unilaternal nuclear disarnament and “taxation of personal wealth targeting the richest 100,000” among other things.
Neo, as you are a Tom Lehrer fan, as I am, I thought you might be interested in this article on our beloved songwriter. Not there is any earth-shattering news in it. I found the article in a moment of serendipity.
Neo: On Bush 43, I was “Just sayin’.” But your speculation about his motives rather makes him seem like the captain of the Titanic.
My personal speculation is that GWB views Obama with a mix of admiration (for his brazen chutzpa) and fear (of a vicious shoutdown, should he venture criticism of any sort). His presidency was a domestic failure in so many ways.
Conservatives in the US and I suspect in the UK, come in far too many flavors to accurately compare them. Whether that is an accurate assessment however is, IMO less important than the importance the support of the other lent each side in their fight with the left.
Thatcher + Reagan, British + American conservatives, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Thatcher and Reagan stood on principle and expressed those principles exceedingly well, which I believe is why they were so successful.
Oldflyer,
I agree completely.
Don Carlos,
Had Bush said anything negative about Obama, the left would have used it against all conservatives. Bush is very much aware of how the presidency weighs on one’s shoulders. I suspect that he prays every night that Obama will make a few good decisions and that our country will be strong enough to withstand the many bad ones.
Geoffrey Britain,
Well said. On a trip to Salisbury, I can remember standing before the Magna Carta. I felt the bond between our countries intensely. And after that, I visited Chartwell and the Cabinet War Rooms. Need I say more?
Oldflyer
There ws nothing remotely conservative about George Read My Lips No New Taxes Bush or his son George Islam is a Religon of Peace Bush. I loved Reagan but unlike so many others on the Right I never thought of him as a God. Reagan’s two biggest mistakes were
1. Picking GHW Bush as his V.P.
2. Nominating Sandra Day O’Connor to the SCOTUS.
GHWB and his cronies undermined and reversed Reaganism and now they plot for a third mediocrity Jeb Bush to be the nominee.
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DGaulle was a conservative – but no friend of America.
What ever you think, please never refer to the Bush Family as conservative.
Another article I read today on Thatcher and Reagan pointed out these icons had practical limits, the art of the possible: Thatcher never took on the NHS, and Reagan never took on Medicare.
And that is why the Left, in the past 100+ years always wins, longterm: in power they take two steps forward, and, in (often bitter) defeat, they (and we) take only one step back. Now they are inexorable. We are too far down the road.
brooklyn boy says “What ever you think, please never refer to the Bush Family as conservative.”
BB, methinks that like many you are too hung up on labels. In my own opinion, which I greatly respect, both Bush 41 and Bush 43 were excellent Presidents, regardless of whatever label is hung on them.
But, if you really want to debate the relative Conservatism of those two versus so-called Conservative Icons, I could trot out numerous decisions by Ronald Reagan that would not fit your template. Just as a tease, I would start with amnesty for illegal aliens. Oh sure, it was a one time solution to the problem of 3 million illegals in the U.S. Or not.
I might then follow up with sending Marines to Beirut with no defined mission; then pulling the survivors out with our national tail between its legs after over 200 were slaughtered. That spells national weakness to the predators in the Arab world.
So, do your home work my good fellow.
I revere and respect Reagan. But, although you do not say so, I strongly suspect that you use a mythical image of him to denigrate others. Highly objectionable. Oh, and Reagan followed Carter. He had a low threshold to cross. l expect that any Republican who follows Obama will look both good and relatively Conservative. The country will be ready, as it was for RR.
On the other hand, if doctrinaire Conservatives spit on the next Republican candidate as they did on Romney, the country may well be lost.
That Bush 43 has never said one anti-Obama, anti-Dem thing, not one, speaks volumes.
Don Carlos: yes, but what do those volumes say? They say that Bush has a certain (probably out of date) idea of statesmanship, dignity, and what is owed the office of the presidency. He apparently made a vow to shut up about Obama.
I’m not at all sure that Bush dissing Obama would help the conservative cause, either. But his lack of dissing certainly doesn’t mean he approves of him.
That was one of the more intelligent exchanges on the Thatcher legacy.
For those that say the left never takes a step back you have to remember that Tony Blair never once tried to reverse Thatcher’s anti-union legislation (removal of the closed shop, compulsory ballots, outlawing ‘flying pickets’ and so on), even though he was in power ten years. And I don’t think a contemporary Labour party will ever be as far left as it was in the early 80’s. If you think Obama is extreme you should take a look at the 1983 Labour election manifesto, once famously referred to as “The longest suicide note in history”, including such lovelies as immediate unilaternal nuclear disarnament and “taxation of personal wealth targeting the richest 100,000” among other things.
Neo, as you are a Tom Lehrer fan, as I am, I thought you might be interested in this article on our beloved songwriter. Not there is any earth-shattering news in it. I found the article in a moment of serendipity.
Whatever Happened to Tom Lehrer?
Which reminded me of Tom Lehrer’s song about Hubert Humphrey, LBJ’s VP:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ld7VVBztuVM Whatever became of Hubert?
Neo: On Bush 43, I was “Just sayin’.” But your speculation about his motives rather makes him seem like the captain of the Titanic.
My personal speculation is that GWB views Obama with a mix of admiration (for his brazen chutzpa) and fear (of a vicious shoutdown, should he venture criticism of any sort). His presidency was a domestic failure in so many ways.
Conservatives in the US and I suspect in the UK, come in far too many flavors to accurately compare them. Whether that is an accurate assessment however is, IMO less important than the importance the support of the other lent each side in their fight with the left.
Thatcher + Reagan, British + American conservatives, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Thatcher and Reagan stood on principle and expressed those principles exceedingly well, which I believe is why they were so successful.
Oldflyer,
I agree completely.
Don Carlos,
Had Bush said anything negative about Obama, the left would have used it against all conservatives. Bush is very much aware of how the presidency weighs on one’s shoulders. I suspect that he prays every night that Obama will make a few good decisions and that our country will be strong enough to withstand the many bad ones.
Geoffrey Britain,
Well said. On a trip to Salisbury, I can remember standing before the Magna Carta. I felt the bond between our countries intensely. And after that, I visited Chartwell and the Cabinet War Rooms. Need I say more?
Oldflyer
There ws nothing remotely conservative about George Read My Lips No New Taxes Bush or his son George Islam is a Religon of Peace Bush. I loved Reagan but unlike so many others on the Right I never thought of him as a God. Reagan’s two biggest mistakes were
1. Picking GHW Bush as his V.P.
2. Nominating Sandra Day O’Connor to the SCOTUS.
GHWB and his cronies undermined and reversed Reaganism and now they plot for a third mediocrity Jeb Bush to be the nominee.