I must be a glutton for punishment: liveblogging the third Presidential debate
I must say my usual antipathy to debates has grown. And I don’t think these debates have made much of a difference at all so far—and barring some very strange and unforeseen circumstance, I don’t think this one will.
But duty calls, and I’m liveblogging.
So far it’s very wonky. I don’t know about anyone else, but I find Obama’s voice very monotonous.
“Spreading the wealth around”—McCain is wise to repeat that particular unsound bite.
If “Joe the Plumber” didn’t exist, they’d have to invent him.
I guess all the debates will be mainly on the economy. I suppose that makes a certain amount of sense, given the circumstances.
Obama’s a fiscal conservative—who knew?
McCain seems to have taken his Geritol this evening, as opposed to last time.
The split-screen reaction shots are rough; they require the listener to curb his emotions while the other guy is criticizing him. Obama tends to do something funny with his mouth that shows barely concealed disdain.
I’m wondering what I would think about this if I were the proverbial “undecided” voter.
Good one, McCain: “If you wanted to run against President Bush, you should have run four years ago.” Touché.
Obama concedes that McCain isn’t actually Bush in disguise—except on the economy. Notice the length of McCain’s list of ways he’s opposed his party, as opposed to Obama’s list of ways in which he’s been mavericky.
Bob Schieffer just asked an interesting question about the negativity of the campaign. McCain makes some excellent points about Obama’s ducking of town meetings, and refusal to repudiate some of the worst accusations of his surrogates.
McCain calls Obama on his lying ads. Good—this way at least many Americans will get to see something to counter these ads.
Obama says he’s been the one taking the high road. He considers, of course, that it’s off-limits to say he’s palling around with terrorists—even if he has been palling around with terrorists.
Obama should not be laughing when McCain talks about ACORN voter fraud. Doesn’t look good.
I think Bob Schieffer is doing the best job of all the moderators so far, for what that’s worth. His questions are a bit more interesting, and he seems to be in more control of the responses and lets each man have enough time to answer without letting it all go on and on and on.
I think Obama is a bit surprised that this particular McCain showed up, rather than shuffley old Tim Conway from last time.
Obama tries to muster up something nice to say about Sarah Palin. He sounds less than enthusiastic. No surprise there.
Obama would do well to be less wordy. I think I’d be saying that even if I supported him—and even though I sometimes have the same flaw.
I’m sorry, but Obama’s voice is zoning me out again. It’s a very pleasant drone. McCain has a less attractive voice, but it has color and dynamics in it.
McCain’s making excellent points about his bipartisanship in Supreme Court appointments. No litmus test; qualified is qualified. This is where McCain’s record (and in this case, as I recall, a record for which many conservatives detest him) comes in handy.
McCain is bringing up Obama’s denial of medical attention for late-term failed abortions—I didn’t think he’d have the guts to do this. Very pertinent. And of course Obama does the “deny, deny, deny” bit.
Almost done! Gee, time flies when you’re enjoying yourself.
Obama’s for education reform. Wouldn’t it be nice if McCain made the Ayers connection here, where it belongs?
Make college affordable? Good luck. Four thousand dollars tuition for some sort of volunteer work.
McCain’s for choice. Everybody wants good schools. What curmudgeon wouldn’t?
McCain goes back into boring mode for his summation. But otherwise I think he did a good job, and took it to Obama without coming across as angry and caustic. Whether it will matter is anybody’s guess. I’m not making any prognostications.
Obama’s summation likewise. I think this was his weakest debate. Whether it will matter is anybody’s guess. I’m not making any prognostications.
Hey, did I just repeat myself?
Post-debate body language—McCain does a little quick-step, joking around. He seems a lot happier than Obama. On Fox, they show a photo of the star of the debate, Joe the plumber. He looks more like Mr. Clean to me.
McCain is good when pissed off. I’m liking what i see. Hes got Obama mumbling at this point.
“He considers, of course, that it’s off-limits to say he’s palling around with terrorists–even if he has been palling around with terrorists.”
That would be “swiftboating”, which we know as “telling the truth about a democrat”.
Barry O can say anything – any lie any contradiction – and get away with it. I have never seen anything like it in my lifetime. Even Bill Clinton could not get away with what Obama gets away with. Calling himself a fiscal conservative is incredibly audacious, given the deception.
McCain should have said, “So, Mr. Fiscal Conservative, what do you call an $800+ billion giveaway to the U.N. bill you sponsored, along with a call for $85 billion annually to that same body?”
John McCain just does not have the mettle to take down this Golden Mouth Shape Shifter from Chicago.
He might.
He’s doing much better than last time.
Thanks Neo. I’m stuck at work and your liveblogging sure helps!!
I thought I was the only one who still thought legal qualifications and understanding of the constitution were the primary requirements for a Supreme Court justice. I was glad to hear him say that…
Obama is pushing his indentured servant college tuition plan again.
No way!
McCain has cruched BHO in this debate. FINALLY! The MAverick shows up- and he’s pissed!
I agree completely about that disdainful smirk and about a missed opportunity to connect Ayers to education spending. Re: Volunteer work for ed money: ACORN anyone.
I still think Obama could solve our oil problem. He is the single biggest source of oil I’ve ever seen.
$4,000 would pay for Humboldt State University – not for UCLA, or Berkeley or Davis or Stanford, or Harvard or Yale
Remember, Clinton’s Tuition Tax credit sounds so good – till you find out that if you can afford to send your kid to college – even though you pay a ton of taxes – soup nazi – no tax credit for you!
I would rather people choose when they are ready to serve their community – maybe when they are older if that’s their choice, not have it forced on them by people like him in million dollar homes – he plays the class warfare card, why do they let him get away with that!
“He seems a lot happier than Obama.”
McCain should be, he has a clear conscience; While Obama, on the other hand, can be thankful that he is Obama and not Pinochio…
I cringe for McCain. He cannot follow through on a thought that requires more than two sentences.
One FNC analyst, maybe Fred Barnes, said McCain is a jabber, but he jabs and moves away and never delivers the knockout punch. That is as good an anolgy as any. But, I am afraid that he knows his limitations.
I have to say that ‘buyer’s remorse’ should be rampant among the GOP faithful. Nearly anyone in the primaries would look good at the moment. I do give McCain credit for picking Sarah, although that probably backfired due to the economic meltdown. Romney would look good in either position on the ticket right now. (Well, he always looked good to me)
Your’re too old to whine Bob (aka Oldflyer). Stop it.
Oldflyer: I dunno, but I think there are intangibles in debates that resonate with people. In this one, I believe some portion of undecided viewers will find something untrustworthy about Obama, and something energetic and direct about McCain.
President Obama. Sounds nice, no?
“sarahlouiseheath Says:
October 15th, 2008 at 10:43 pm ”
Just as nice as “President Mugabe” or “President Chavez”. But we get your drift.
You will get EVERYTHING you wish, and more. And then, we’ll laugh at your face and will not hesitate to call you an idiot.
Hey, you wanted CHANGE! You’re going to get it, in spades. Just don’t come back to us and complain about it.
neoneocon,
It should be obvious to you, as it is to everyone else here, that “sarahlouiseheath” is an Obamabot who is here to reduce our discussions to a mockery. I find its posts insulting and they detract from this discussion and the prior thread.
We at conservative and moderate weblogs put up with s**t from these people that they would never allow from us at the weblogs in their world. In fact, I’ve had friends who have posted over in their dark world sites intelligent, well-written, and provocative views that are thoroughly trashed, mocked, and then are removed from the blog, with their privileges to post there revoked.
These people are arrogant Stalinists. I see no other useful purpose for us tolerating their indecency than to allow everyone to see just how shallow-witted they are.
My God, even that kid from Alaska whom I disagree with is a lot more respectful of our forum. He may say some stupid things, but much can be forgiven him because of his age. He doesn’t mock our forums. And that’s why I am respectful towards him, as any adult should be.
This thing called “sarahlouiseheath” disgusts me.
FredHjr: As I wrote the other day, I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt—for a while, that is. “sarahlouiseheath” has revealed herself to be a troll, and has been banned. I didn’t remove her comments, however, because I find them to be very revealing of the mindset of a certain type of Obama voter.
Best McCain debate performance. Still frustrated that he won’t follow thru on things like:
– debunking Obama “tax cut for 95%” MYTH! Call it what it is:
WELFARE!!! WELFARE!!!! WELFARE!!!!!!!!
– Obama owes big time to Unions: new legislation for Card Check Rule = intimidation & muscle resulting in empowerment of Unions –> who want to close off FREE TRADE
-HEALTH CARE — let Obama get last word — never explained that w/ Obama’s tax increases, sm. business won’t be able to afford to pay benefits like health insur. for employees
-Sm. business might no longer be able to afford EMPLOYEES
–> JOB LOSSES
McCain cuts for businesses –> spur JOB CREATION
McCain won’t string together the PATTERN of Obama’s MENTORS
& HELPMATES: Ayers, Wright, Reczko, Raines & Johnson (Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac), A.C.O.R.N. = bad, worse, worst judgement/ethically challenged.
McCain won’t complete the Ayers pt: not what he did in ’60’s (well, it is, partly), but more who Ayers is today or was, when Obama worked w/ him. Equally radical with goal to radicalize schools. THAT’s who Obama is too! (and debunk this absurd garbage that since it was Annenberg’s money, & he was Republican, he approved. Annenberg was dead! Money came from trust he left; trust foundation administered by a hired employee.)
McCain has to go those extra few feet on these issues in next 3 weeks. Keep up the confidence. The “up” tone in his voice. Even the smiles were like “oh, great, I know this issue cold…Can’t wait until it’s my turn!)
He came off as confident, SO knowledgeable and on point — but won’t finish the key assertions — complete the circles & pound home the thought.
Schieffer did excellent job – best moderator; great questions: addressed issues, but also personal ethics. Gave both candidates room — and fair amts. of time.
Promise me you will not live-blog again for at least four years and one month.
I participated in the liveblogs at Rachel Lucas and Gulf Coast Pundit, only I provided updates on the Phillies game.
/There was a debate tonight?
Sorry, forgot links.
I participated in the liveblogs at Rachel Lucas and Gulf Coast Pundit, only I provided updates on the Phillies game.
/There was a debate tonight?
Phew I’m glad I’m not a Stalinist (aka troll). And Rose- I don’t know about the UC’s but Stanford, Yale and Harvard have now made themselves pretty dang cheap (to middle and lower income American families).
It is a good question to think about how much of a role fear will play in this election… Prejudice, fear-mongering, ignorance, the Bradley effect… there’s almost enough out there to make me scared Obama won’t win.
> Prejudice,
Against hockey moms?
> fear-mongering,
fear of those evil creationists?
> ignorance,
“this is not the Ayers/Wight I know”
> the Bradley effect…
Racist!
> there’s almost enough out there to make me scared Obama
> won’t win.
Definitely fear is playing a role in this election…
McCain won, I think, in the mind of anyone who can listen to an argument and ignore the speaker’s demeanor. But his agitation works against him; he has too much to say. And anyone who is looking for the person who carries himself like a winner will find that person in Obama. He is slick; he has no shame; his delivery carries you past his non-sequiturs, errors, half-truths and falsehoods.
The Democrats acted shrewdly in gutting American education. Still, Joe the Plumber might just pull a bunch of people along.
The thing that needed to be said and wasn’t, IMO, is that “revenue neutral” often isn’t if it changes incentives. And the point could have been made like this: “We’ll give you a $5000 tax credit, but we’ll take $5000 off what you earn on overtime. Well, you might decide that there’s no point in all that overtime if you have to give up $5000 of it, especially if you’ve got $5000 from Uncle Sam up front. Incentives change behavior; this is a basic tenet of economics. That’s a lesson of welfare reform. It affects other things as well: our tax code hurts businesses when they employ people here and helps them when they employ them overseas; the incentives are all wrong. Don’t trust ‘revenue neutral’; don’t trust punative taxes. Look at what they reward and what they punish. The best way to increase tax revenues is to improve the economy so that more people are employed at better salaries; tax revenue will increase and everyone will be happy.”
Show me a human without fear and I’ll tell you he/she is an idiot or worse. And shape-shifting politicians are something we should be feared about – not only in USA, but worldwide, too.
McCain clearly won. It wasn’t a knock-out, but a resounding victory nonetheless. What a difference with the previous debates.
The first half hour McCain just killed. Afterwards he was still good.
I couldn’t but help noticing Michelle Obama on stage afterwards. Unlike Cindy McCain, Michelle did not look happy.
Fiscal policy is the most important tool of government economy management: more potent, sharply-focused and versatile than monetary policy or budget policy. But it also is more dangerous if misused, and more easily damaged by populist demagogy.
Didn’t watch. The People are in a firing mood right and the dems could have nominated a fire hydrant and they’d still win. Obama alas is no fire hydrant. The aftermath will be -ah– interesting. The winning side loves government and loves to tweak its many powers to perpetuate their own. The poor Republicans are diffident and unambitious there.
BHO, as I suppose he’ll go down in history to signify him as the latter day FDR, will serve us a new deal that will make the first one seem small change. Yes, he can.
Hey, you wanted CHANGE! You’re going to get it, in spades.
LOL! You racist!
Seriously, though, can you imagine what a minefield it’s going to be to voice even the most gentle criticism of this president? Watch for Hate Speech laws to be enacted right after the card check legislation passes. And watch for those Hate Speech laws to be liberally (heh!) used to squelch any speech that even remotely criticizes the president.
“We’re all racists now” will be the mantra of at least the next four years. The preceding eight years of vile invective in the mainstream will be swept down the memory hole, and new standards of speech will be forced upon us.
Hyperbole? Possibly. But Obama’s campaign tactics alone are strong indicators in this direction. Me? I’m moving to Canada with Tim Robbins and Susan Sarandan. ‘Tis a chill wind headed our way…
“Unlike Cindy McCain, Michelle did not look happy.”
Is it just me, or doesn’t it always seem that Michelle Ma Belle always presents a scowling visage?
Peter the Alaskan Kid,
Did your teachers or your parents teach you to parrot those things? “Bradley Effect”? LMAO! The unit I served with in the Army was almost half black soldiers and only about three of those guys were a**holes and treated us white guys badly because of our race. Get a real life, kid. There are jerks on both sides of the fence on that one. And I’ve seen ’em. White and black racists. And to set the record straight, that was 1973-76, and we made pretty good progress by that point. Today, the country is probably pretty well rid of those old ghosts. Even in the South. Now, I can’t speak for that place about an hour and a half drive south of me (South Boston), but here in Central New Hampshire I don’t know anyone anymore who uses the “niggah” word.
I’m not voting for Obama because he’s a Marxist, not because he’s black.
Try to be more real, kid. On weblogs like this we try to trade ideas, not stereotypes.
The perceived winner of any debate is in the eye of the beholder. After witnessing the four televised debates, from which team would you rather buy a used car? Personally I would not select the lawyers even though they are the smooth talkers. Gut level trust is still a huge factor in tumultuous times.
President Obama. Sounds nice, no?
Um, no.
Yes, I did see that the comment was from a now banned troll, but I couldn’t let it go by.
“President Obama”?
Shouldn’t that be “The Beloved Leader Obama”?
The difference between two philosophies:
One wants Joe to act like a man, help him and society by encouraging him to pull his own pants up. YEA JOE! Way to go!
The other wants to take Farmer Brown’s over-alls and give them to Plumber Joe, so we don’t have to stare at his crack. Poor Joe. Boo-hoo.
After all, Farmer Brown has two pairs of over-alls. He can wear his Sunday pair all the time.
And Plumber Joe won’t ever have to worry about pulling his own pants up….
I was listening, not watching. It makes for a better understanding of what is actually said, and I thought it pretty much a wash except when it came to the Supreme Court question. McCain won this.
Neither one really repeated what the negative ads were saying to the other’s face.
Obama killed him on health care. Again.
If I were the moderator, I would have asked three questions:
1- Do either of you support the UN’s Small Arms Ban Treaty, and if so, why?
2- Do either of you think the Constitution is a “living document”, and will you pick “activist” Judges for the SCOTUS, and what is your definition of “activist Judge”?
3- What are the advantages/disadvantages of allowing Health Care companies to set up shop in states with lower regulation, thus lower care; and how does this relate to the McCain health care plan.
Obama’s Health Care Plan is better.
BUT, I would rather have McCain picking the SCOTUS Judges. Obama’s stand on that scares me. He is going to pick people who want to MAKE LAW, not determine the Constitutionality of Law.
“Bradley Effect”? LMAO!
FredHjr,
I think the effect will be very real this time;
not because of voters fearing a black person, but instead avoiding being thought racist if they so much as question the readiness of such an inexperienced cypher to be Commander-In-Chief.
Rather than go through all the arguments and confrontation on that issue, it’s much easier to stay quiet, simply go into the voting booth, and express their real opinion there.
I thought BO looked much more comfortable and at ease. He also appeared way more thoughtful than McCain.
McCain had a tough job to do last night. Talk specifics about issues and yet get in those necessary points about Ayers and Acorn. He came across knowledgeable but seemed edgy and nervous to me.
I agree with a previous poster that instead of trying to tie BO in with Ayers terrorist past that he should’ve linked him with Ayers subversive educational agenda. I also wish he would have followed through on just how involved BO has been with ACORN.
thought BO looked much more comfortable and at ease.
That’s from the comfort of knowing that whatever inanities you may utter, you will never be called on them. That comes from knowing that even with a Democrat as president, and a veto/filibuster proof Congress, you will never be held accountable for the mess you make.
That, or stomach gas. I wasn’t clear which.
Well, we sure are in for a Jimmy Carter lesson. Those born during or after his administration don’t know what that was like. They are about to find out.