Home » Open thread 3/9/24

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Open thread 3/9/24 — 63 Comments

  1. Israel is following the lessons it has learned from American history.
    They are following the American example of “Manifest Destiny.” There is large dominant nation to be built out from a smaller one, and the “Palestinians” are playing the role that “Indians” played for the USA in the 19th century. Interesting that both loser groups are misnamed. The Palestinians will eventually be tamed as the American Indians now are.
    The second lesson that the IDF is following is the principle of Unconditional Surrender. American tried to stay out of WWII; there was a strong isolationist movement that wanted the USA to avoid getting involved in Europe’s troubles as it did in WWI. Once our hand was forced, by Japan’s attack on Pearl Harbor and Germany’s declaration of war against us, a switch flipped and the American sleeping giant was filled with a Terrible Resolve. The rest is history.

  2. Fascinating. A lot of the elements he mentioned I have never heard of. A Chem Teacher could liven up a class with this video. Western names, so what are they called in say Chinese or Japanese?

  3. West Tx, there’s a problem with your analysis. The American tribes were clearly the sole inhabitants of the land before the Europeans came. This is not so with the Arab-speaking clans in Israel and the West Bank.

  4. Fair point, Kate; I’m not saying that the 2 are totally alike. The European settlers were here a century or more before the push westward got started in earnest; the Jews and other people including Arabs coexisted however uneasily in present day Israel for almost 2 millennia.
    My overall point is that Biden and his fellow Jew-hating leftists are telling the Israelis that they are not allowed to do what Americans did, with far less justification, in building their nation. 1940s Germany and Japan were awful societies that deserved everything they got, but neither was the threat to the USA that Hamas is to Israel.

  5. Just bought this book for my Grandson, but I’ll have to wrestle it away from his Grandma, who loves it!

    The Elements Book: A Visual Encyclopedia of the Periodic Table (DK Our World in Pictures) https://a.co/d/dg6Zr0a

  6. back in the 90s when I read Mortal Splendor Russell Meads screed right out of Yale, he got better, he riffed among other things on the commonality of israel US and Australia, the last is how Ayers sold leftism down under using the aborigine question,

  7. inconditional surrender makes it very hard to end wars, it sounds nice, but in practice it costs lives, so after the bombs dropped, macarthur had to make concessions to the emperor, so did mccloy, who was the rough analog, morgenthau, wanted total annihilation of the German state, but who would that have favored, Stalin,

  8. H/T Power Line – Mr. X

    .. nothing in Musk’s career has done as much to bring him into conflict with the American powers-that-be than his purchase of Twitter in October 2022 (rebranding it as X almost a year later). He promptly fired its CEO and 75% of its workforce, and released internal documents that exposed the extent of Twitter’s collaboration with the federal government in censoring material.

    .. Another meme has developed about Elon inheriting a vast fortune from an apartheid emerald mine. As Isaacson shows, almost no element of this story is true. Elon’s father made only about $210,000 in profits…

    .. The first internet gold rush was on. Musk deferred enrollment—indefinitely, as it proved—and made his first millions with a city directory website called Zip2 that he sold to AltaVista in 1999. He spent the next three years helping to build PayPal and walked away with $250 million when it was acquired by eBay in 2002.

    .. Why did Elon Musk buy Twitter? That single act turned him from a hero to a villain almost overnight in the eyes of elite opinion.

    .. Is Musk a conservative? No, or at least not yet. So far, he could be classed among the anti-woke liberals, those who remain loyal to the Left while deploring its excesses.

    .. He has 11 children (that we know of) with three different women, including three born in 2021 just months apart with different mothers.

    .. Conservatives ought to support Musk because he will need all the help he can get. The deep state has him in its crosshairs and will not stop until he is neutralized, using all the tools at its disposal. Musk is already being targeted with investigations and lawsuits, including a truly bizarre suit against SpaceX for discriminating against non-citizens in hiring. (Like all aerospace companies, SpaceX tries not to let its sensitive technologies fall into the hands of foreign governments.) Left-wing nonprofits have deliberately fomented, and in some cases fabricated, racist content on X in order to make Musk’s version of the app seem like a haven for hate speech. Preserving free speech in the run-up to the next election should be every conservative’s priority. In this fight, Elon Musk is an unexpected but entirely worthy champion.

    Long time Tweeter user—tho NOT a fan, I have thrown what support I can behind him. Have a blue ‘Thingie’ thru an $8 a month subscription, but am still just a novice X user…

  9. miguel, I disagree. Unconditional surrender is the only way to ensure that the enemy knows — is convinced — that he is defeated. Which, as Clausewitz observed, is or should be the overarching strategic objective in war. We saw the negative consequences of not fighting a war to its ultimate end-state in the First World War. Germany and the Germans were not convinced that they had been militarily defeated. In fact in terms of infrastructure, Germany was entirely intact — as opposed to France, Russia, Belgium, and much of Eastern Europe and the Hapsburg realm. The war ended too soon, and it ended in armistice, both mistakes. The war should have gone on into 1919. The Allies should have invaded Germany and forced an unconditional surrender, then occupied and partitioned the German lands into sovereign states under close Allied supervision and control. Which is what the Allies, having learned their lesson, did in 1945.

    I wrote and published an article in which I made this argument some 20 years ago. It was mostly (but not entirely) well received by my peers in the military history community.

  10. the Austrians started the War, then every piled into the scrum, and a generation was lost on the fields of flanders, new horrors arose to the East, in the Third Rome, a devouring that consume 40 million, then in the conquered power a new horror was born farther East, maybe Sun Yatsens republic might not have fallen to the warlords, then Chiang, then Mao, the Grand Dragon,

    Kaiser Wilhelm was not a well man, but then those that went along with him, that abetted the slaughter to the East and to the West, should have known better, as for the Haigs the Nivelles the Foch’s could they have done with a little less blood, maybe some of those men might have been saved,

  11. miguel:

    I disagree, or have problems with, most of what you wrote above. But I’ll let it go. A discussion for another day, perhaps a different venue.

  12. Let’s hope Israel tells Biden to F off.

    Not sure why Israel sort of paused its invasion of southern Gaza – maybe to have the hostages returned ???? – but it’s looking like this was a mistake.

    The longer any Israeli – Hamas/PLO war lasts, the greater the efforts of the USA and the world community to have Israel cease military operations and give the terrorists a new lease on life.
    Just terrific.

    I don’t think that if Trump were president, that the USA would be sending supplies to Gaza and be building them a harbor.
    And who thinks that food supplies sent to Gaza will, by some miracle, not fall into the hands of Hamas.

    But hey, thank God Trump is not the president; he is obnoxious, has a goof ball hairstyle, has an abrasive, in your face personality, doesn’t know when to keep his mouth shut, etc.

    Yea, thank God Biden (or is it Obama running the show?) is president !!!
    Remember folks; you must cast your vote based upon the personalities of the candidates, and totally ignore the policies they wish to implement.

    Yep, make your choice based upon which candidate has more of a “presidential demeanor.”
    Clearly, that’s not Trump.

  13. probably they had to mobilize the requisite amount of troops, to do the thing, where did those hostages end up, did they do the rafah crossing and end up in the sinai, these are questions no one seems interested in asking,

  14. the Raj Quartet largely confines itself to the 1939-1947 period, although characters through their family connections, most notably the layton the kasims who go back generations to the time of Auragzeb, it circles back from 1942 and the Daphne Manners incident, that is the fulcrum of the story, the story centers on a misunderstanding that dooms the future prospects of one character and marks all the others like Future Colonel Merrick

  15. JohnTyler, I totally agree — Israel needs to get on with it, & ignore bully Joe.
    I wish we could get some military gear to Israel without Biden’s blessing, among others.
    How awful that America is pandering to Iran & it’s proxies, while hurting Israel.

    Michael, Re: hostsges: I suspect sadly they are all dead by now. Or wish to be.

  16. One blogger said that if the Zionist movement had gotten underway a century earlier and Israel had been founded in the 1840s, rather than in the 1940s, the situation in the region would have been long settled by now. I’m skeptical about that, and skeptical about whether it will be resolved in the foreseeable future.

  17. thats a chicken and egg question, the driver of aliyah, were the pogroms, that started in Czarist Russia, the rise of Drumont and Lueger, the weakness of the Ottoman Empire, made it possible for large numbers to settle there, as pointed out befor all members of the Husseini family were not ill
    disposed toward the Jews, just the father and they youngest son, Haj Amin

    had they largely settled in Uganda or Madagascar other problems might have arisen, but it would have been remote from many peoples eyes, Antisemitism is not a rational response in the first place,

  18. Marlene-
    Article in Jerusalem Post that describes how US is still selling a lot of armaments to Israel, but there is much concern there that this may not continue.
    It also notes that Israel is losing favor with Americans; I was not surprised to read that 80% of Republicans favor Israel over the Palestinians, but only 35% of Democrats do.

    Lots more of interest in the article- https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-790865

  19. The spacing navigators are more evident in the first film but they are necessary for nearly all travel melange is metaphor for oil and hallucinogen

  20. Neo:

    I have two questions today.
    1. Are you going to do a segment on Biden’s speech? I would like to hear what others here have to say about the speech.

    2. When you signed up to have PayPal on this site–did they require that you give them the pin number for your debit card?

  21. At least we can now understand why “Biden” is playing “nice” with the NORKs…

    “Bruce Bechtol on North Korea and the Middle East”—
    https://www.meforum.org/65645/bruce-bechtol-on-north-korea-and-the-middle-east
    H/T Powerline blog.

    + Bonus: The SEC has been weaponized by “Biden” (not that this is anything new, mind you, after the SEC was discovered playing footsie with SBF…but still…)…
    “The SEC Conscripts Corporate America in Its New Climate Change Fight;
    “The new reporting rules will force companies to disclose whether they are prioritizing climate change concerns.”—
    https://reason.com/2024/03/08/the-sec-conscripts-corporate-america-in-its-new-climate-change-fight/

  22. “1940s Germany and Japan were awful societies that deserved everything they got…”

    Every time I hear somebody going on about how Hitler tricked the Germans, who were suffering from the Treaty of Versalles, I suggest they read Shirer’s “Rise and Fall of the Third Reich”.

    TL;DR: The Germans were absolutely convinced of their social and ethnic superiority, and had been for decades if not centuries, and were more than happy to follow someone who promised to finally prove it!

    My Father, who was part of the allied occupation of Germany after WW2, also observed that it was the fairest war in history – every Nazi had been killed, and the only Germans left had been secret anti-Nazis all along.

    The first time I heard him say that I was very young and puzzled. After a few more times, I got the joke!

  23. Ray Van Dune:

    There were of course plenty of Nazis and Nazi-supporters in Germany, and plenty survived. But many Germans were not supporters, and there was also a robust resistance in the military. When the Nazis came to power they had the support of approximately one-third of the German people. In later elections they did better, but only after they’d shut down the opposition and also embarked on violence to curb dissent. What’s more, Hitler didn’t initially indicate he’d be starting a world war. He was in power for many many years before that happened.

    I’m not defending the German people, nor am I saying that all-out war wasn’t necessary. It was. But the number of non-Nazi Germans was not insignificant.

  24. Anne:

    I did an open post on Biden’s speech the night it happened, and then another longer and more detailed post the day after. That’s it for me.

    The answer to your second question is that I don’t use a debit card so I have no idea what they would require.

  25. The best book for understanding the factors that led to Naziism..and what things were like during the period immediately after the Nazi accession to power…is the memoir of Sebastian Haffner, who came of age in Germany between the wars. I reviewed it here:

    https://chicagoboyz.net/archives/42473.html

    Also, here is a Nazi propaganda piece from 1929. Note that it defines the part as Nationalist, Socialist, ‘a Workers’ Party’, and anti-Semitism, but says nothing about military expansionism. The memories of WWI were probably still too raw.

    https://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/haken32.htm

  26. David Foster:

    I’d also recommend The Nazi Seizure of Power by William Sheridan Allen. I would guess you’ve read it.

    Haffner’s book is wonderful too. I believe it was you who introduced me to it.

  27. Shirehome, a very interesting question. It looks like this page gives a fair overview of the Chinese nomenclature and how they borrowed ‘abbreviated’ forms of the European names of a lot of the elements that were discovered from the late eighteenth century onward. Some others the Chinese were aware of already, so those have their ‘indigenous’ names.

  28. Neo…haven’t read I’d also recommend The Nazi Seizure of Power, but if you recommend it, I’m confident it’s worthwhile.

    One more book, this one with a rather unpleasant author: Account Rendered, by Melita Maschmann. The author got involved with the Nazi party at age 17, and rose to a pretty high position, in which she was responsible for dispossessing Polish farmers and assisting German farmers to move on their lands.

    She said her initial interest in Naziism was sparked by the fact that the party claimed to be interested in helping the poor, in contrast to her mother’s snobbish attitude. Following a bad breakup with a boy, she threw herself into her party work.

  29. TL;DR: The Germans were absolutely convinced of their social and ethnic superiority, and had been for decades if not centuries, and were more than happy to follow someone who promised to finally prove it!
    ==
    Volkisch sentiment with a political expression was quite modest under the Empire, with votes for such parties bouncing around 2% of the total during the period running from 1890 to the Empire’s end. During Weimer ‘ere 1930, support bounced around 2.8%, though you could argue some of the volkisch sentiment was folded into the National People’s Party vote. It was during the period running from 1930 to 1933 that the Nazi Party’s support exploded. It required several blows to the stature of the German establishment to generate this (the blows being the loss of the war, the privation accompanying the war, the collapse of the currency in 1922-24, then the Depression after 1928). Even during this period, the Nazi vote totals showed signs of being those of a fad movement (rather like the Ku Klux Klan in the United States from 1919 to 1930).
    ==
    Note also Shirer’s account of what he observed in Germany the week of the declaration of war in 1939. There was in his field of vision no analogue to the public enthusiasm seen in 1914.

  30. Hello. I just had an idea for a movie or a play flit through my head.

    Premise in brief:
    A first-generation immigrant from, say, the Philippines or Indonesia, who is in late middle age and has attained a professorship at some law school or other (not necessarily a prestigious one), teaches a debate course. He wants to go out of his way somewhat to challenge his students by setting them up for contentious topics to test their reactions and teach them how to look at things dispassionately and so on, because they’re going to need to argue for things they disagree with on a personal level in certain trial situations and so on.

    One day, he wonders what would happen if, among the usual types of pro/con topics he could assign to randomly selected pairs of students, he were to add in something along the lines of a one-on-one debate for versus against some proposition along the lines of ‘it was a good thing that slavery was practiced in such-and-such state or county’.

    I would stipulate in the plot that part of the reason why he decides to drop this particular topic into the mix is due to his naïveté about the inflammatory nature of this subject because he’s a first-generation immigrant. That would seem to me to be an important plot point.

    So he puts that and a mix of other somewhat controversial debate subjects into the hat; and while he’s getting this set of assignments ready, he excitedly mentions this aspect of his class preparation over lunch or something to some of the other faculty with whom he’s on reasonably good personal terms. A couple of them warn him direly about what will – not “can”, will – happen to his career if he broaches some of those inflammatory debate topics, which leaves our professor sobered but still willing to run the experiment.

    To complete the picture, of course, he must randomly match a given debate topic statement with a pair of students, also randomly assigned to one or the other side of the pro/con debate over it. And naturally, when it comes time to assign out the topic of defending chattel slavery, who should come up in the ‘pro’ side of the draw but the one Black female student in his class. (There are various scenarios possible which could play out depending on who gets the ‘con’ side, each of which could be interesting in its own right.)

    It’s at this moment, of course, that he has serious second thoughts. Does he go ahead with assigning this topic or not? Let’s say he does (because of course, if he doesn’t, there’s not much of a drama, is there?). And our student who is put in this incredible position of having to defend, in intellectual terms and only for a few minutes, what happened perhaps to some of her ancestors – the plot would have to explore the gut-wrenching arguments with family, her fellow students, the professor, the inevitable angry visit to the Dean’s office, etc.

    But I would want to see if there is any room in there for something more nuanced than just the obvious way of looking at such a subject. Maybe she finds such inner strength that she can take on this nauseating topic from the side of the enslaver and come away having really learned something, I mean something more than just “whitey this-and-that, I’m so oppressed,” blah blah blah. And maybe the poor kid who got stuck taking up the ‘con’ side of the debate also gains some insight into… something – something more substantial than the oh-so-tired “gosh, black people have feelings, too!” type of thing.

    I don’t know – would such a story have any potential? Any benefit? This while obviously leaving aside the question of finding anyone who would dare produce such a movie or play while going beyond the racialist clichés that so dominate everything, as we know.

    It would be a little like that movie from some years back, Just Cause – Sean Connery and Morgan Freeman, I think – which appealed to me precisely because it spent its first half setting everybody up along what seemed to be these types of predictable, politically correct feel-good lines, with the do-gooder social-justice liberal lawyer swooping in to spring the wrongfully oppressed, racially-profiled black youth out of a Southern small-town jail who’d been arrested for breathing while black or whatever it was….

    But then, about halfway through the movie, as the result of a highly unwelcome phone call in this lawyer’s very moment of triumph, it was suddenly revealed that the cynical, supposedly cold and ruthless (black!) town cop who, the viewer had been set up to believe, had done this kid so wrong had actually been completely right about the kid’s true nature the whole time, and it was the liberal do-gooder who ended up being disabused of his pretensions in the most direct manner imaginable.

  31. In a better country, Schmoe Biden might be charged with public intoxication and using illegal undocumented drugs.

  32. Some books I’ve read that address the History of the Elements.

    The Search For The Elements by Isaac Asimov (Author)
    The data are dated — more were discovered — or “discahvard” — later, but very accessible as usual with Dr. Asimov.

    The Periodic Kingdom : by P. W. Atkins
    The author puts the fundamental elements of matter in perspective to each other and to the material world by imagining the periodic table as a geographical entity in three dimensions, and giving it properties analogous to an earthly landscape.

    He does make the chemistry and physics interesting, but I found it helpful to get a grounding in the basics by first reading “The Search for the Elements” by Isaac Asimov.

  33. J6 a FEDSURRECTION? The “just a conspiracy theory” establishment line is collapsing under more revelations. This time from the Left, via The Intercept (no longer Glenn Greenwald’s place).

    Mark Hemingway of the Federalist on X:
    To repeat, this is where we’re at — an avowedly leftist publication is saying there are serious “questions about whether the FBI pursued a larger effort to encourage political violence ahead of the 2020 election.”

    https://twitchy.com/amy-curtis/2024/03/08/the-intercept-fbi-secret-files-2020-violence-n2393718

    Click through and find the LINKS to The Intercept.

    Enquiring minds need to know more, this, the next election year.

  34. The news that more states have just enacted Constitutional Carry laws–it’s now up to 29 states–has ignited a firestorm of back and forth arguments on my local Nextdoor.

    It is obvious to me that the issue is not–as the anti-gun proponents argue—about the tool, about guns—but, rather, it is really about the mind-set and mentality which allows and motivates criminals and/or the mentally ill—tells them it is OK–to use these tools to attack others, and the failure of our legal system to provide the level of deterrence that it used to.

    If you are looking for a barometer of how our culture has changed, you need look no further than teenagers use of guns.

    Back in the 1950s and 1960’s–and perhaps even a lot later—many high schools had gun clubs, and many high school students–admittedly more so in rural areas—would routinely show up to school and park their pickups with a gun rack in the back holding a (likely loaded) rifle or two and, yet, from what I have been able to find, school shootings back then were extremely rare.

    Why was this?

    Because those students back then lived in a different moral and cultural universe, and didn’t have the images and ideas of school shootings swirling around in their heads and, moreover, the legal system and heavy sentences provided a lot of deterrence.

    This was apparently not something they thought about, or were inclined to do.

    Moreover, the violent mentally ill, back then, were usually detected and essentially incarcerated in mental hospitals, not out roaming the streets, looking for random victims, or members of certain racial or cultural groups, to take out their psychoses and rage on.

    Nowadays, however, that old mentality and moral code has been replaced by the witch’s brew of images and ideas which our “progress” and the Internet have given us, and the often violent mentally ill roam free, as do criminals—tutored now in victimhood, racial politics, rationalizations, and excuses–knowing that their chances of getting caught, of being vigorously prosecuted, and/or receiving a long, harsh jail sentence, are far less than they used to be.

  35. Did “Manifest Destiny” really work? Look at our southern border now. “Manifest Destiny” also cuts both ways. Look at the Russian-Ukraine and China-Taiwan situations. Both sides believe that they have their own destiny, different from the other side’s idea of its own destiny.

  36. Snow on Pine: Had a shooter entered my high school in 1978 and started firing, about 30 guys would have dashed to the parking lot to retrieve their shotguns and rifles. At that point the life of the shooter would have been measured in seconds.

    What would the response of faculty and staff? School shooters weren’t really a thing then. But what are the odds that some of them had a hidden handgun? Pretty high, I think. One of my math teachers was married to a gunsmith, after all.

    The shooter’s success would be better if zhe (nearly all the recent shooters are trans) went after the junior high–but I would bet at least two teachers and the principal had a hidden pistol. The grade schools would be most vulnerable. If the shooter survived the first 15 minutes, then the parents would converge and God help the police officer who told them to stay back.

    City and county law enforcement could put perhaps 12 on the scene. The larger city 20 miles away could send 15 or 20 within half an hour. Now the air base, 12 miles away, would stay out of something like this normally. But it really depends on the wing commander.

    Robbie Risner, a former Vietnam POW, would probably tell his commander at the Air Division level to get screwed, and tell his security police squadron to get there fast, and take out the shooter by the fastest means. They train for situations like that. Then he’d designate the fuel and expended ammunition as training expenses. What the hell is the USAF going to do? Court-martial him? The court would be 5 to 7 general officers all of whom knew Robbie, and they would acquit.

  37. Sunday Open Thread: Defense stuff

    US Navy Procurement Disasters – The Littoral Combat Ship and Zumwalt Class Destroyer – Perun

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odS3Kn5oGl0

    Timestamps:
    00:00:00 — Opening
    00:00:53 — What Am I Talking About?
    00:01:58 — Evolution of The US Navy
    00:07:15 — LCS – The Beginning
    00:15:29 — LCS – The Issues
    00:23:10 — LCS – Lessons
    00:34:59 — LCS – The Redemption
    00:39:28 — DD(X) – The Beginning
    00:46:02 — DD(X) – Lessons
    00:50:55 — DD(X) – Redemption
    00:56:15 — Reflection
    01:05:47 — Update

  38. Karmi recently posted a link to an article in the Daily Mail about a woman who began her career at McDonalds while in College and now owns 12 McDonalds restaurants.

    It’s a great story, and she sounds like an admirable woman, but two facts from the story jumped out at me. They were meant to sound impressive: “her 12 franchises are now worth $1.5M and she lives in a $700,000 home.”

    That would mean each franchise is worth roughly $125,000. Quite a few years ago there was a Subway franchise near my work and I’d eat there several times a week. Coincidentally, the owner also owned the franchise near my home. In time I got to know him and he would talk bout the economics of the business. His profits from each franchise was about $24k/year. He said owning one did not bring enough to support a family. And, with 5 franchises there were daily issues with staff not showing up, quitting, theft, customer complaints…

    It’s a tough business.

  39. @ Rufus > “It’s a tough business.”

    I read a long article some time ago about about starting up your own franchises, and the conclusion was that you needed to have at least 4 in the same general location, so that you could optimize your supply chain and management oversight, to make any real profit.
    Tough indeed.

  40. @ Rufus > “I went down a rabbit hole on the Mayerling hunting lodge incident.”

    Did you find the movies?
    Charles Boyer and Danielle Darrieux in 1936 in French
    https://archive.org/details/mayerling_202103

    Audrey Hepburn and Mel Ferrer in 1957. I saw this many years ago on a dvd.
    Very sad story.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brtgGMamljE

    Omar Sharif, Catherine Deneuve, James Mason, Ava Gardner. in 1968
    In color, and English. May be a remake of the 1936 script.
    https://ok.ru/video/4061786802715

  41. AesopFan,

    I learned there are movies, but I didn’t look for or at any footage from them. From what I read it sounds like the Prince had one or more STDs that may have lead to his ill mental health and likely led to his wife’s infertility. My guess is the movies ignored that aspect of the drama.

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