What effect is the NY fraud ruling likely to have on Trump’s businesses? Plus, the MAL valuation issue
This NY Post article attempts to answer the question. We already know that, whether Trump lied or not, there was no victim and none of the lenders claimed damages. But this discussion is about a different angle of the case:
Only a few decisions have ever been issued on whether New York courts have the right to revoke business certificates based on violations of the civil fraud law that Engoran found Trump broke, according to Leitman Bailey.
The lawyer said there are at least two similar New York cases, with one 1959 ruling in which a judge stripped a disc-jockey school of its business licenses because it deceived students about what they were qualified for after completing the program.
In another 1974 case, a judge revoked the business license of a company that posed as the New York Office of Consumers.
But none of these cases fit the profile of Trump, Leitman Bailey said.
“Nothing like this has ever happened before in the history of New York,” Leitman Bailey said of Engoron’s ruling.
Or, I would wager, in the history of the US.
All of the legal experts The Post spoke to agreed that Engoron’s ruling is nearly unheard of – which may account for the lack of clarity on how it will be implemented.
“It’s exceedingly rare,” Florence said. “Judicial dissolution almost never happens.” Instead, corporations usually “die” in bankruptcy cases, she said.
Trump is so very special, his victimless crimes so very heinous, that an exception must be made.
Why does Engoran think it’s okay to do this? Because he knows that half of America – and almost all in the MSM – will applaud with vengeful glee? Because he knows that the ground has been laid with seven years of describing Trump as a person beyond the pale, uniquely and deeply evil? Because he knows that the NY appeals courts are politically biased, as well? Because he wants to put the “guilty of fraud” label on Trump now, prior to the 2024 election, in order to affect him negatively, even if his decision is eventually overturned? Because if it happens quickly enough, before an appeal can occur, the properties will be liquidated by the receiver and the financial damage to Trump will be irreversible?
Here is a comment to the Post article:
So in 2023 America a single judge can just cancel a business with the stroke of a pen? … And even if NO ONE was hurt by this? If this is allowed to hold then we are truly done as a country.
More:
Business certificates are issued by the state to prove a company’s validity and are used for business transactions.
They can be thought of like a birth certificate is for a person, former financial-crimes prosecutor Diana Florence told The Post.
When the judge canceled them, it was like being given “death certificates” — with the ruling amounting to a “corporate death penalty,” Florence said. …
“We are going to see the name Trump coming off of a lot of buildings in New York,” [Cornell law professor] Hockett predicted. “The Trumps will no longer be a real estate family in Manhattan.” …
Trump has already said he plans to appeal the ruling which, two lawyers said, is likely to stop the cancellation of the business certificates from taking effect immediately.
An appeal could be filed as early as this week, landing in New York’s mid-level appeals court called the Appellate Division, Hockett said.
Both Florence and veteran real estate lawyer Adam Leitman Bailey believe that will trigger a stay of Engoron’s ruling while the appeal plays out — which could take up to two years to decide.
And then there’s that $18 evaluation of Mar-a-Lago, which seems on the face of it to be absurdly understated. I don’t have my finger on the pulse of Palm Beach real estate (more’s the pity), but I actually do know a couple who live there and are attempting to sell their rather small and very modest non-oceanfront property for many millions, because that’s what the traffic will bear. Then there’s handy dandy Zillow; here’s a screenshot:
Real estate evaluations are notoriously fluid. But I don’t care how many restrictions and encumbrances are on that property; it’s worth a lot more than eighteen million. And yes, you can get someone to say otherwise – or to say just about anything, I suppose, especially if it hurts Trump. More here:
One prominent Palm Beach real estate broker, speaking on the condition of anonymity, told The Post, “It’s utterly delusional to think that property is only worth $18 million.”
The insider added, “If that property were on the market today, I would list it at around $300 million, minimum … at least. He also has the separate golf course minutes away.” …
He cited a basic Palm Beach Assessor valuation that ranged from $18 million to $28 million between 2011 and 2021, with industry sources saying it fails to take into consideration the fair market value. This valuation is far from Trump’s 1985 purchase price of $10 million, $8 million less than what the judge declared it was worth today.
It is also important to note that Trump got a deal on Mar-a-Lago nearly 40 years ago. At the time the historical estate was listed at $20 million.
There are also nearby comps.
To put it in perspective, a 2-acre wooded lot at 1980 S. Ocean Blvd., just 5 minutes from Mar-a-Lago, is currently listed for $150 million. Mar-a-Lago, situated at 1100 S. Ocean Blvd., dwarfs this lot tenfold and operates as a commercial business with around 500 members as part of the golf club. …
Forbes had appraised the property, which is made up of 128 rooms, at approximately $160 million in 2018 following extensive renovations and its exclusive Palm Beach location on Billionaires’ Row. The property includes a 20,000-square-foot ballroom, five clay tennis courts and a sprawling waterfront pool.
And in the five years since, Palm Beach properties have only increased in value.
Maybe Forbes should be found guilty of fraud. And yes, that’s sarcasm.
Of all the things the Democrats have done to attack Trump, this is the one that really gets to me. It’s so blatantly made up and false, yet people like Bauxite and many more like him will swallow the whole stinking story because…..Trump.
If there is a way for Trump to sue the DA for false incrimination, it should be done. This is using a political office for political revenge on a political opponent, and Trump is the victim. He ought to be able to get damages for such a scurrilous and, yes, fraudulent act against him.
I have friends, neighbors, and family members who will say, “I don’t want to think about it. It’s just too confusing. But it’s Trump and it’s probablytrue.” Bah!
Of course, hate-filled leftist ideologues do not constrain their animus to Trump individually. People like Engoron feel completely justified in treating anyone who fails to share their opinions like dirt beneath their feet. All they need do is call them a Nazi, and they are then justified in punching said Nazi, physically, metaphorically, economically and digitally. Driving all those nasty Trumpsters into bankruptcy, depriving them of an opportunity to make a living or driving them out of “polite” society is justified as a positive moral good. It is as if we have been teleported back in time to ancient Israel, where being declared anathema or “haram” (devoted to destruction) was tantamount to a death sentence, since being driven out of the city or the village meant being prevented from accessing food, water or shelter. Not something anyone saw coming to Twenty-first Century America.
Only the buyer or lender (if used as security) can assign (not determine) value. Non buyer’s opinions don’t count. This is true in all things. Anyone that collects anything from art to beanie babies understands this. One may pay thousands for a rare toy that some other person would throw in the trash.
Ad David Foster said on an earlier thread, this seems like a bill of attainder. Who knows what NY appeals courts will do with this? Who would want to do business in New York, knowing that it could all be stolen if the powers that be don’t like you?
That $18m to $28m from 2011-2021 for Mar-a-Lago is the annual taxable value set by the tax assessor after purchase or improvements and limited by the Save Our Homes amendment to the Florida Constitution to increases of no more than 3% a year for a primary or homestead residence. Trump reportedly purchased it in 1985 for $15m and I believe made it his primary residence during his first term so these values seem consistent with that. Taxable value doesn’t have much to do with market value in Florida except at the time of purchase. I wouldn’t expect a NY judge to know that but I would think Trump’s lawyers should have been able to explain the difference given the opportunity.
https://www.pbctax.com/real-estate-property-tax/#how-property-tax-is-calculated
I wouldn’t expect a NY judge to know that but I would think Trump’s lawyers should have been able to explain the difference given the opportunity.
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You fancy the judge was willing to listen?
If the ruling stands then Trump can try to move his businesses elsewhere. I have no idea how easy that would be to do or how much it would cost, but I do know that a lot of New Yorkers would probably lose their jobs and the city would lose some revenue.
Of course it looks like that’s probably going to happen anyway.
Why don’t they just declare him guilty of Trumpitude in the first degree, and have done with it?
}}} And then there’s that $18mil evaluation of Mar-a-Lago, which seems on the face of it to be absurdly understated.
It helps to know the history of MAL, which I do because I grew up a couple miles from it.
1 — it was one of the estates of (IIRC) Marjory Meriweather Post, heiress of the Post cereals business.
2 — When she passed away (ca. the Ford admin, IIRC) she willed it to the PotUS for an “escape” place.
3 — situated as it is, right along a major access point to Palm Beach and the ocean blvd which runs its entire length, as I understand it, the Secret Service look one look at its security options and said, “Uhhh. thanks, but no thanks.”
4 — after some time, it reverted to the possession of Palm Beach County government, I believe.
5 — they put it up for sale, and it sat there for a remarkably long time for whatever reason, until, at some point, Trump bought it and refurbed it (I gather the county did not do a great job on maintenance)
6 — I do know Trump got it very cheap — primarily because it was a lame duck property for the county, earning them no money and costing them minimal upkeep… and thus 18m might actually be whatever was paid (with a lot of money dumped into it after purchase for that refurb). If that’s the case, there is some argument for that being the claimed price, even if it differs from what the Tax assessors might apply. Not saying that 18m is the “real value”, but it can certainly be argued for that on some levels.
NOW comes one of the fun points, which I’ve mentioned on other occasions… It is immediately, directly, under the glide path for takeoff and landing of planes coming in and out of Palm Beach International. Again, having lived there decades ago, the jet takeoff and landing noise is considerable. When you were on the phone, you’d often say to the other end, “just a minute, jet takeoff, can’t hear shit” and wait for about 30s before continuing. The county actually wound up buying a 7-8 block wide swathe of property about 4-5 blocks deep and tearing down all the homes and making a park out of the area. MAL is about 2m further away, but the jet noise is still likely pretty significant. My mother’s old house is the final “edge house” of the old neighborhood. Everything to the north was torn down.
So, Trump starts suing the county over the noise. In the end, he winds up making a deal to drop the legal actions, with the county to lease, for, like, a buck a year, a multi-acre block of property to the immediate east of the airport along “Congress Avenue”. I’ve heard the lease is for up to 100y from when it was made. The property in question was used to create a Trump golf resort that costs like a quarter of a million per year to be a member at. Trump did, during his Presidency, have some political meetings at the location… he likes to do such in a relaxed atmosphere, and his golf courses were popular venues for them.
In a final irony, the county jail, a structure about 14 stories tall, looks out over that same golf resort on one side… so here are these guys whose entire life income probably couldn’t get them a year’s membership in the place, prisoners, looking down at the people golfing there.
If you look at this map, you can see all the features discussed — MAL on the far right. “Rinker” park in the middle next to I95, the airport, the Trump resort, and the county jail facility.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/26%C2%B040'35.8%22N+80%C2%B004'43.9%22W/@26.6707106,-80.0859835,14.75z/data=!4m4!3m3!8m2!3d26.676606!4d-80.07887?entry=ttu
Assessed tax valuations are often far less than actual market prices – depending on the state and county regulations on property taxes.
As Neo points out, values can fluctuate and often do so rapidly.
A complete appraisal of market value by an independent appraiser would be reliable but for only as long as the market is relatively stable. The judge is completely off base in his opinion about the values of Trump’s properties.
If I were in Trump’s shoes, I would devote the rest of my life to securing my businesses and getting revenge for the illegal and Stalinist style tactics used against me. That might mean foregoing running for the presidency. I don’t know enough to know what his best course of action is. I sincerely hope that he eventually beats all the lawfare
and keeps his businesses intact.
In the 70s, Mar-a-Lago was designated a National Historic Site. I don’t know if it was ever opened to the public, but the government didn’t want to pay the upkeep and returned it to the Post Foundation, and that may be who Trump got it from.
People who grew up visiting national parks or at least looking at them in books and on maps, might like Pruning the Parks at the National Parks Traveler site. It gives an indication of all the real problems government agencies had to deal with before they started bothering with intrigues and fake problems.
Shame is if the judge is totally shot down in flames as should be down, he should face severe penalties.
What would be difference if a lawyer frauded someone?