On the Greenwood Mall “Good Samaritan”
This was one fast-acting and accurate “good guy with gun”:
According to Greenwood Police Chief James Ison, Dicken was shopping at the mall with his girlfriend…
“The time lapse between the moment that Jonathan Sapirman exited the restroom and began shooting, and when he was shot by the civilian (Elisjsha Dicken) was only fifteen seconds, not two minutes…
“I will say his actions were nothing short of heroic. He engaged the gunman from quite a distance with a handgun,” Ison said. “(He) was very tactically sound as he moved to close in on the suspect, he was also motioning for people to exit behind him. He has no police training and no military background.”
Ison explained to WRTV, Dicken’s first shot at the gunman was from 40-50 yards away and it appeared the very first shot hit the gunman.
Dicken was able to hit the gunman with additional rounds.
On Tuesday, Johnson County Coroner Mike Pruitt said an autopsy found the suspect had eight gunshot wounds and none were self-inflicted.
People who are for very strict gun control laws aren’t keen on stories such as this one, for obvious reasons. In addition, Dicken was carrying legally but the mall was a gun-free zone. The mall seems pretty grateful that Dicken and his gun were there, however.
But not everyone is grateful. Some offer comments such as, “What you have is two gunmen — one of whom obeyed the law for a little longer than the mass shooter.”
Kyle Rittenhouse was considered by the left to be a cold-blooded killer for defending himself. Now Dicken, who wasn’t defending just himself but many many other people, and who acted with decisive speed and extremely impressive skill as well as courage, is considered merely a potential criminal by some people because he had a weapon and was willing to use it to protect others. This is one of the consequences of guns being labeled unequivocally bad.
[NOTE: A lot of people are comparing the actions of Dicken to those of the police in Uvalde. I find the two situations quite different, although they do share one important element: a perp murdering innocent people with a gun. In the mall, however, the Good Samaritan was right there when the killing began, and it happened out in the open. Dicken could see the shooter clearly, and had already seen what he was doing. The opportunity was there, and Dicken took it (as I said, with decisive speed and impressive skill as well as courage). In Uvalde, the police arrived to the classrooms at a point when it is almost certain the perp had already shot the victims and killed almost all of them, but the police hadn’t witnessed any of that. The police didn’t actually know whether there were any people other than the perp in those two classrooms, and although it would certainly seem logical to assume so, the evidence of their phone calls and recorded conversation shows (and I plan to discuss this in a future post; there are a lot of details involved) that they thought the shooter might have been alone in there and was shooting through walls now and then. This was a grave error on their part, but it was made possible by the fact that they could not see into the classrooms through the narrow windows (one in each door) because the lights were off, the shades were drawn, and the gunfire had added some haze as well, and a nearby classroom was empty (that’s information from the recent Texas House report). They also did not want to kill children themselves, if living children were in there. Over time their perceptions changed and they started to think there were injured and possibly dead in there, which is another story I hope to tell in a subsequent post.
A better analogy to the mall shooting, although hardly a perfect one, would be the situation in the Robb Elementary schoolyard before the shooter had entered the school but after he had done some shooting outside – that is, if initial reports that a Uvalde officer had hesitated when he had a chance to pick off the shooter there had been accurate. However, those reports were inaccurate. They left out one all-important fact, which is that the officer did not have a bead on the perp. Actually, if that officer had fired and taken his target down, he would have shot Robb Elementary coach Abraham Gonzalez (see this).
What would one of those Uvalde officers have done if faced with the situation Dicken encountered? It is sheer speculation, and your conclusions may differ from mine, but I believe an officer would have acted to shoot the perp – although perhaps not as well as Dicken did.
That is not to excuse the decisions made by the Uvalde police at Robb Elementary. I have said before that many of their decisions were poor and that there was basically no command structure established; communication was also abominable.]
[NOTE II: I don’t have time to locate the source again right now, but I read that although Dicken has no military or police background, he practices shooting very regularly at a range and has done so for several years. His accuracy certainly reflects that.]
Defense of others is a valid form of justifiable homicide. The left wants no one to know that.
Dicken’s having been able to place eight out of ten shots on target at 40 to 50 yards with a hand gun, while faced with an active shooter, goes way beyond “impressive” in my opinion. To me, as someone who has done a fair amount of practice at the range with my pistol, it seems more like “nearly unbelievable”.
My wife thinks that it must have been a God thing.
@Alan Colbo
And the police have no duty to provide that defense of others. I my mind, the lack of duty for state actors to provide that defense of others is the FUNDEMENTAL reason the state CAN NOT have a compelling interest in infringing on individuals rights to provide that defense of self and others.
When seconds count, the police will be there in minutes.
Of course, once the police get to the scene of the action, who knows how long it will take them to actually do something to neutralize the shooter.
At the Parkland High School shooting, the police officer stationed at the school did ZERO to confront the shooter.
I have never owned a gun, most likely never will. But I must confess that every now and then I do consider obtaining one (and signing up for an appropriate training program).
Funny how abortion is claimed as a right, but self-defense or defense of others is cold blooded. I’ll never understand the thought process except to assume the person that thinks this way just wants others dead.
I do agree the events in Indiana and Uvalde are different for the responder. Line of shot to your target helps every time. However, I cringe at this statement “already shot the victims and killed almost all of them”. Unfortunately, he fired a couple of other shots later, and more importantly nobody received timely life-saving treatment in Uvalde.
To keep my job I have to be able to place five of six shots in a man-sized target at 50 feet, which I find tough enough. Eight of ten at 40-50 yards while under fire is outstanding.
In my state you are not allowed to carry a gun in a mall that has signs prohibiting that. If mall security or management finds out they can ask you to leave and call the cops if you don’t. If you leave there is no penalty. If you don’t leave you can be arrested for criminal trespass. I take my chances and carry concealed in malls.
That is some excellent shooting, next time at the range this Friday I will try a few at 40 yards on a man size target. I am not bad at 20 yards at inside of that I can do a decent job shooting a paper target which is not shooting back at me. All the safety rules, being sure of your target, knowing what is behind your target and then not having your finger on the trigger until it is time to actually shoot the target. Some people are kind of natural at various shooting skills but most of us have to really work at it. I know two people here in Texas who had to kill a person while being in danger of their lives and while both were shaken up they told me that if the situation ever occurs again they would do the same thing without hesitation. Elisjsha Dicken did such a good timely deed for all of the people in the mall who were not shot that day, it would have been so much worse without his timely, accurate action.
For those who are not gun owners and are considering owning a gun I would suggest they figure the cost of training and several hundred rounds of ammunition in their original expenditure of gun ownership. Kind of like learning to drive a car, it takes time to acquire the muscle memory and skill to be successful. Thank you Neo for giving us better information and the bits and pieces of most media.
For anyone wondering, the Gun Free Zone signs in Indiana DO NOT have the force of law behind them. The most an establishment can do is ask you to leave, with refusal being taken as trespassing.
This level of shooting requires training and a great deal of practice. Eli has stated “his grandfather trained him.” There are some rumors about who his grandfather might me, but I wont repeat rumors. However, if confirmed it would explain a lot about his level of training.
Also, the area he is from has a several quality ranges, and many people have their own backyard “ranges.” Heck, when I was living with my ex-wife I had a 50 yard range in our backyard. Never had any complaints from the neighbors.
Also agree that Uvalde and GPM are two totally different situations. Uvalde was a string of failures in judgement after the officers took fire through the door and fell back.
=============================
@JohnTyler – some gun ranges offer rentals, and you can often find training at some of them. I’d suggest getting the training simply to familiarize yourself with firearms. For instance, the AR15 is not a heavy recoil platform, which is why it’s so popular, and even a small child can fire one without coming away “rattled and shaken” as some lefty reporter/activists say.
@OldTexan – I, and others are calling the scenario based on what we know the “Dickens Drill”
https://www.indianagunowners.com/threads/dickens-drill-or-the-eli-drill.523945/
Thank you for the link zenman: the “Dickens Drill” explains how the shooting was done and it makes sense, especially with the first shot being at 50 yes and then closing in. Lots of training to do that moving and shooting while hitting the target. Right man in the right place at the right time.
I know the first reports said 40 yards, and have since been changed to 40 feet. Even at 40 feet that is impressive, 8 out of 10 hit his target in seconds.
So, I do not know if it was yards or feet, doesn’t really matter does it. He did the right thing.
I agree with Chris B, Dwaz, and OldTexan.
I’ve actually shot targets free-hand with about that accuracy and consistency at 50 yards, except … I was shooting a nearly competition quality .22 pistol, with a red-dot optic, and taking my sweet time while calm. Subtract all that and no dice.
Something that Mr. Dicken could have done, until we’re informed differently, was support his pistol for better aim. A table top would do, or the corner of a wall could be used to support and stabilize the pistol. We do know that he was moving so it sounds unlikely, though he could have moved from table to table, or from wall corner to table.
The US Border Patrol officers are required to qualify with their pistols at 50 yards. But the firing position is a bench rested pistol.
Only a matter of time before MSM digs into this guys life and finds something to lie about and make him seem like a bad guy.
“Man disarms assassin who fires shot at President Ford, media ruins his life”
https://allthatsinteresting…
I just read a police chief correcting the information about Elisjsha Dicken’s shooting the gunman. The police now say it took 15 seconds from first to last shot which makes a lot more sense. I do some Steel Challenge competition and it often takes less than six seconds to empty a ten round magazine hitting various targets. That young man did some extraordinary shooting and it does show what a trained person with a gun can do to stop a killer.
Obeyed the law a little longer? Those people are idiots, saving lives is following the law.
Wish if ever met the young man would thank him
I’m glad to see that Mr. Dicken has a supportive attorney.
______
JohnTyler,
Consider starting with a .22LR pistol or rifle. Do have someone very knowledgeable get you started, but lots of instructed training isn’t really required if you are committed to learn.
A .22LR gun is not recommended for defensive purposes, though it’s far from useless if you are a good shot. A lady friend took the plunge a year ago and opted for a .22 pistol and a 20 gage shotgun.
Estimate the cost and then double or triple it.
Fullmoon- “Only a matter of time before MSM digs into this guy’s life and finds something to lie about and make him seem like a bad guy.”
Yes, I’ve thought the same thing- it’s almost inevitable, the MSM is evil.
Shirehome, yeah,that makes more sense. I figured someone had the distance units wrong. 40 to 50 ft with a handgun makes much more sense than 50yds. Because of the short barrel on a handgun the natural dispersion would be large at 50yds.
Rittenhouse, Alba, Dicken – American Heroes.
SHIREHOME,
Do you have a link for that? I am curious and couldn’t find anything myself.
I was interested in Fullmoon’s link (4:09 pm), it didn’t work, but I did a search and was able to come up with
Meet Oliver Sipple, The Vietnam Veteran Who Saved President Ford’s Life — And Was Punished For It
By Natasha Ishak | Checked By Leah Silverman
Published April 27, 2020
Updated September 30, 2020
Here’s a working link . . .
https://allthatsinteresting.com/oliver-sipple
The killer had lost his job in May, and allegedly received an eviction notice recently. My take is that the killer was seeking “suicide by cop.”
@SHIREHOME – haven’s seen a correction for that yet. I was wondering at the time, during the police presser the next day, when he said 40-50 yards if he meant feet.
@TommyJay – one of the reports said that he steadied himself against a column for the first shot. I will try to see if I can find it again.
Sorry, no link. I read it on Instapundit. So, I can not vouch for accuracy.
Trudeau has recently reminded Canadians that they have no legal right to defend themselves or any other person with a firearm. He asserts that the only legal use of a gun is for hunting and target practice.
Here in the U.S., “Guns prevent an estimated 2.5 million crimes a year, or 6,849 every day. Most often, the gun is never fired, and no blood (including the criminal’s) is shed.
Every year, 400,000 life-threatening violent crimes are prevented using firearms.”
The map at the link below is an eye opener.
“Defensive Gun Uses in the U.S.”
https://datavisualizations.heritage.org/firearms/defensive-gun-uses-in-the-us/
Leland:
Most of the shots the Uvalde perp fired after the cops had arrived were at the cops, but there were a couple of sporadic shots later, when they were waiting in the hall, and it’s not clear who or what those were aimed at.
There was one adult survivor in room 111 and several child survivors in room 112, but the survivors in 112 were not shot (one smeared herself with blood and played dead, and the others were hiding under a table that I presume had a cloth on it). So the only heavily wounded person who survived, at least as far as I know, was an adult, the teacher in room 111. As far as I know, none of the survivors describe people being shot much later than at the very beginning. That is what I’m basing it on when I say that almost certainly all the shooting of the kids and teachers was done before the cops were standing outside the classrooms. I hope when the longer report is issued we’ll hear more details about that, but till then that’s what I’ve concluded based on what I’ve learned so far.
In addition, some doctors have indicated the children shot did not have survivable injuries. I don’t know if that was true of all of them. On the other hand, teacher Eva Mireles definitely survived for a little while, because she was able to either call or text her husband. No one has said whether her wounds were survivable, though, but I think it’s at least highly possible that had she got help early on they might have been. There is a team of doctors who are studying the medical reports on each victim and supposedly will be issuing a report on this aspect of things, according to McCraw, so we may learn in time whether anyone could have been saved and how many.
I had initially thought more of the people who were shot had survived, because there were something like 17 people taken to the hospital with injuries who survived. However, they were the grandmother, the teacher in room 111, two people shot through the walls who were actually in room 109 (and who might even have been evacuated earlier; I have no idea when they were taken from the school), and a bunch of kids who were cut by glass during the evacuation, as well as a girl in 112 (who had made the 911 calls) who was hit by shrapnel. This, plus what one of the doctors who saw the kids in the ER said, leads me to believe the children who were shot in 111 and 112 most likely did not have survivable injuries.
We also were told in the early reports that several people were pronounced dead at the hospital. But I know that this is sometimes a formality and that people can have nonsurvivable injuries but still have a heartbeat when rescued.
“an autopsy found the suspect had eight gunshot wounds and none were self-inflicted”
Doubtless not a premeditated decision to keep shooting. But as a citizen, I feel safer.
John Tyler–I am in the same boat as you. I am afraid that my skill and accuracy with a gun may be roughly equivalent to my skill and accuracy with a golf club.
I do often think that I should nonetheless get myself a gun and get myself trained, as a civic duty.
I believe that the more good citizens who own and can handle guns, the better.
there are two types of people who push gun control.
The first are wannabe apparatchiks who want a disarmed populace that can rule over.
the Second are just effete cowards. you can tell who they are by the masks they still wear.
One person with a gun can control one hundred people without one. That is why the left hates the idea of anyone owning a gun but the institutions that they themselves approve and authorize.
Thanks shirehome and zenman.
Forty yard shots are very doable if one can steady against a column.
If Dickens had done that in New York he would have been charged with murder.
The politicians like the Canadian PM saying people do not have the right to use a firearm to defend themselves almost certainly is protected by men with firearms. The jerks like Obama telling us the oceans are rising buy beachfront property, on two oceans. And they travel in jets. People can say there are no differences between Democrat politicians and Republican politicians, but the hypocrisy on guns, “ climate control” , and “ wealth disparity” is way out of control on the left.
>> Something that Mr. Dicken could have done, until we’re informed differently, was support his pistol for better aim.
That’s exactly what he did, according to the police statement I’d read. He’d used a column for cover and as a support to steady his initial shots. The police statement refers to it as a ‘pole’, but from pictures I’ve seen it was about 2′ in diameter.
His preparation and competence in engaging Sapirman is to be credited. We may find that the initial distance was less than currently reported. But It’s likely the fact that he chose to take well aimed shots from cover that made the difference. If his first shots hadn’t landed effectively and Sapirman was able to locate him and return fire with his rifle, the outcome could have easily been reversed.
I’ll be interested to learn what model of pistol he’d used and its sights configuration. From what I’ve read, he hadn’t previously been issued a carry permit and so was able to carry under Indiana’s new ‘constituional carry’ provisions. That fact, along with his accuracy and the effect of his shots suggests to me that he’d used a larger pistol than the very small and light models specifically designed for concealed carry.
I guess this is all hearsay
12:19 p.m.
Another student calls 911
A student in Room 111 calls 911 and hangs up when another student tells her to.
Source: Texas Department of Public Safety
12:21 p.m.
Gunman fires again, fourth ballistic shield is brought to the school
The gunman fires again. Authorities say he was believed to be at the classroom’s door. On a 911 call from a student, three gunshots can be heard. School security footage shows four rounds are fired.
That’s the 5th 911 call from a student inside one of the rooms and well over 30 minutes after the initial gunfire. You can speculate if those additional shots missed anybody.
Was the mall shooting outdoors? I’d have thought the “40 yards” report would have self-corrected if this happened indoors. That would a big mall.
40 yards is great shooting! 40 feet is still great because being that close if you miss you’re going to be facing down that rifle.
It’s true that a longer barrel increases accuracy all other things being equal.
I’m pretty good with a pistol but not so good with my golf clubs!
NEO he Good Samaritan was right there when the killing began, and it happened out in the open. Dicken could see the shooter clearly, and had already seen what he was doing.
the officer that turned tail thought he was shot in the head…
IE.. he SAW the shooter, and the shooter saw him…
they not only knew what the man was doing, attempted murder on an officer
they had a line of site by two officers…
AND THEY RAN…
oh..
and they were not shooting 8 out of 10 at 40 YARDS….
they were well within competent handgun range…
Someone needs to take a tape or stroll-meter to that mall and settle this, once and for all. “Yards” seems like a very large mall, unless the shooting took place end-to-end, as in “Sears to Borders Books”.
For those considering…. yes, at least go someplace where you can rent or borrow a pistol or rifle and get some solid, elementary instruction (some of which will or should be classroom stuff). Proficiency with a firearm is quantum levels more doable than any golf club. I first shot a .22 rifle in Boy Scouts, my first adult rifle was an M-1 Garand my rich uncle Sam provided, later M-14 and M-16. Did well with all… I now opt for 9mm, .357mag and 12ga. You know you shot the M-1, but those who describe the kick don’t really know much about mules. Overall you will be surprised at how well you do, even if you don’t decide to get “into it”… just give it a fair try.
Another Mike. You can get into a deep place when the rivet-counters start arguing about one tiny difference or another.
Saw two a couple of decades ago nearly come to blows over the question of whether the M2 carbine was an assault rifle. Issue is whether you needed a necked-down cartridge to qualify.
The arguments and discussions get more involved over smaller details.
From the outside, it looks like a hugely complicated field. “I have to KNOW all this stuff?”
No, you don’t. Circle, dot, target, just like the diagram on the classroom wall. Or notch, dot, target.
True, all of that. My intent was to try to relieve some anxiety among those who are totally unfamiliar with firearms. One thing all should know is how to clear and/or de-cock, render safe, a weapon without discharging a round. That ability can be useful if you should find one on the ground on your morning walk…
I’ve seen endless discussions of, say, AR-15 vs Mini-14. Precision accuracy may be paramount in scored matches, but is academic in self-defense where “7- or 8-ring” is just fine. But that doesn’t stop the discussions.
I remain skeptical of “45 yards”.
Slightly OT, An off duty cop working security in a mall stopped a potential mass shooter by tackling him.
Sgt. Simpo said he spotted the would-be gunman, Guido Herrera, near the Westin ballroom’s entrance, just a few feet away from hundreds of children, KTRK reported.
Police said Herrera was wearing a shirt with the Punisher logo and a leather mask with spikes.
He carried a rifle in one hand and a Bible in the other, according to the brave sergeant.
“I quickly bum-rushed, tackled him,” Sgt. Simpo told KTRK. “And my first reaction was to make sure that I get a hold of the rifle. No matter what I grabbed, make sure I grabbed that rifle.”
“I had in my mind [that] I was going to get shot,” he continued. “I just had to bear the pain, I knew it was going to hurt, and I was like, ‘Whatever I do, I cannot let go of this rifle.’”
He didn’t pull out his gun because he didn’t want to start a riot.
Artfldgr:
You are incorrect. The perp was in the room with a closed door from well before the cops got into the building until the moment he was shot. The cops in the hall were never able to see him.
Every report has said this plus the video confirms it. One Texas legislator misunderstood and got it wrong. Perhaps you heard that person?
Artfldgr:
In addition, outside the school in the schoolyard, one cop over 100 feet away thought he saw the perp outside in the schoolyard and had a chance to shoot him, but it turns out he had mistaken a school coach for the perp. Fortunately he did not shoot.
@Richard Aubrey, et al – you can go to Google maps, and pull up a map of the mall, as I did because I was curious. It does show the interior layout, including the food court (located near Dicks Sporting Goods.)
Measured distance from the bathroom to the far walls are definitely in 50 yard range.
Mike K; to be fair to national coverage, the Houston Galleria Mall has become a regular shootout. This post at Lawrence Person’s Battleswarm Blog shows video of a shootout between gang bangers just outside the mall. That incident was in April of this year. My daughter was there a couple of years ago when someone heard shots fired and the mall went into lockdown.
Whether it was 40 yards or 40 feet, placing eight out of ten shots on a moving target from a handgun in fifteen seconds in a life-or-death situation is outstanding shooting. Respect.
JohnTyler: I can second what others have said about starting with a handgun or rifle in .22 Long Rifle (.22LR). The Ruger Mark IV Standard pistol is fun to shoot and very accurate:
https://www.ruger.com/products/markIVStandard/models.html
Richard Aubrey: ah yes, the old “Was the M2 Carbine actually an assault rifle?” debate. Hours of fun!
Another Mike: I started with a Ruger 10/22 semiautomatic rifle in .22LR and then proceeded directly to a post-Korean War production M1 Garand courtesy of the CMP store in Anniston, Alabama. First time I ran a clip through the Garand the blast made the corrugated metal roof on the shooting shed ring and shook dust from the rafters. No wonder all those WWII and Korean War vets were stone deaf in their shooting ear. The kick was manageable, however. That reminds me: I hope Parker is doing OK out in Iowa. And I miss DNW’s perspective.
zenman
I’ve been in malls that size. But the center of the hallways–if that’s what they are called–is usually blocked by kiosks or some item indicating load-bearing or signage. There’s usually ten-twelve feet on either side and to figure fifty yards’ worth of people disappeared that fast….
Well into the last century when I played football, somebody on the fifty-yard line seen from the end zone was not very big at all.
When I was in the Army we used to teach that if you didn’t think you could hit the guy with a rock, you couldn’t hit him with a pistol unless…you’d spent a zillion rounds on the range shooting off hand and fast, or you took that extra second to line up the sights. So this guy was really, really good or gave the rifleman an extra second for the purpose of lining up. When you do that, you run the risk of not being any use to anybody pdq. So the guy was coooool, too.
Garands are best used outdoors.
zenman. Thanks for the tip. I like google earth for a couple of other reasons but had never thought of that.
This is Indiana, we build things big when new construction is on former farmland.
Found this pic of the food court. You can see the restrooms in the center of the picture. There would be probably 10 or 15 yards behind where the bottom edge of the frame is.
https://a.mktgcdn.com/p/JRqkIlUW_heJmoNF3vbTFti3zKQMud-BPZeZsZRe3FA/1100×773.jpg
This shows a partial pan around the food court.
https://youtu.be/q8IXASnem6A?t=67
We have some friends in Noblesville. Used to be a neat little town out in the country…..
Still, I’m picturing fifty yards of mall emptying of people fast enough for this to go down.
It’s easy to make most striker or hammer fired pistols safe. This applies only to pistols NOT revolvers. Find and press the magazine release. This is usually on the grip well below the slide. The magazine will fall out or come loose allowing one to pull the magazine out. Then pull the slide back and any round in the chamber will pop out.
Do all the above while remembering, NEVER PUT YOUR FINGER ON THE TRIGGER!
The other thing to comprehend is that even a loaded pistol that is ready to fire requires the trigger to be pulled. It won’t fire all by itself. So maybe you do nothing until someone who knows what to do comes along.
Good luck, we’re all counting on you.
yawrate. “Find the magazine release”. How you catch a bird…put salt on its tail.
“But not everyone is grateful. Some offer comments such as, ‘What you have is two gunmen — one of whom obeyed the law for a little longer than the mass shooter.'” [Neo]
No, there was nothing illegal going on here regarding firearms possession in the mall and I’m getting quite tired of people confusing regulation and law and inapropriately mis-using the term “illegal” to connote some major moral sin.
Simon Properties designated the mall a gun free zone; carrying a firearm onto the property may have violated Simon Properties’ own rule, but it violated no law (passed by a legislature). Quite to the contrary, the Indiana Legislature had recently passed consitutional carry.
In fact, this distinction between law and regulation was precisely what the decisions in West Virginia v. EPA and Jarkesy v SEC were about. Government regulations are not laws and neither are regulations set by private parties. Disobeying them is not an illegality.
You can visit me while wearing a firearm. I can ask you to surrender your firearm while you are visiting or leave. If you don’t leave, I can have you arrested for trespassing but I can’t have you arrested for illegally carrying a firearm in my house; you broke my personal rule, but my personal rule is not a law.
@Richard Aubrey – that mall closes at 6PM on Sundays, shooting began at 5:56:48 p.m
So, the mall was emptying out at the time, likely had less people there than say hours earlier.
God is good.
Thanks for the info.
Artfldgr:
You are incorrect. The perp was in the room with a closed door from well before the cops got into the building until the moment he was shot. The cops in the hall were never able to see him.
Every report has said this plus the video confirms it. One Texas legislator misunderstood and got it wrong. Perhaps you heard that person?
I SAW THE VIDEO…
WHat was the cop running from when they shot at him when he got to the door? flies?
there is a video that was released later..
they went up to the door..
they were shot at and ran when they looked in
then there is the people who didnt bother to watch him in the class and move kids out of all the other classes, etc.
its a clown show
BUT I SAW THE VIDEO OF THE FIRST ENCOUNTER
not later when they have a shield…
then agin
i am tired of apologists..
very much so
after all, that was rock candy bidens son was weighing with the geisha
here you can see the officers at the door before there are shots and they run back and then start waiting
https://www.aljazeera.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/2022-07-13T015828Z_1697323331_RC2LAV9XIN2H_RTRMADP_3_TEXAS-SHOOTING.jpg?resize=770%2C513
I cant find that video that is the image source.. and the police body cams either
but if you look, this is before the sheild arrives..
the two officers are at the door…
when a shot rings out, one thinks he is shot grazing in the head
he would not think that if the door was closed and it did not splinter if he shot through it…
full video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyPTePoiI3M
at 7:40 you can see them enter the hallway
[there is body cam i cant find]
by 7:54 they are right up to the doorway…
8:38 they move suddenly switching locations (watch the detective)
they immediately run…
and the guy that moved to see into the doorway (the detective)
was and is rubbing the top of his head..
he thought he may have been shot…
he keeps checking his head and asking the other…
at 9:00 he feels his head again…
at 9:08 looks at his hand to see if it has blood
he goes back down the hallway
he is not acting like the door is closed
and at 10:22 in the lower right hand corner you have a man with a gun, squatting.. he is 15 feet around the corner… what is he squatting for? the speedy gonzolas run fighter? the nice thing is how he keeps pointing it towards the other officers!!!!!!!!
at around 10:50 he moves back…
(probably sayin the door is closed now)
also, blurring was added to the video…
you can see it if you compare images from the open hall in the begginning and watch how they change…
ALSO… and i think this is the reason for the blurs
you note the level of light changes in front of the door..
ie. really bright when the guy is there, then darker after the shots
like the light was coming out of the class, and then not so much
if i cared a whit i would download and could isolate that part and show how the ligh in the vid is changin as is the quality of the image down the hall…
Artfldgr:
The door was closed and the perp was in the room, shooting through the door and the walls. A teacher and a student in one of the other rooms (I believe it was Room 209) were shot through the walls and injured. The walls were made of cinderblock type material and shots go through them. The officers were shot that way, as well – through the closed door and/or through the wall.
I had already watched the video you’re speaking about, in slow motion, as well as some from bodycams. I also watched the entire 11-hour presentation to the Texas Senate and read the entire 77-page House report, as well as the entire ALERTT report.
Regarding those officers (this is from page 51 of the House report, as footnote 157):
There really is no disagreement or controversy about that. They never could see the perp until the final breach and killing, and the door was closed the entire time. The real question is whether it was locked.