Idiots on the right: burn it down in Georgia
The most useful idiots of all to the left are the useful idiots on the right, such as the ones saying to Republicans in Georgia: “Don’t vote for the GOP candidates for the Senate. That’ll show the lousy good-for-nothing GOP!”
Sure. It makes a lot of sense. Because you have your quarrels with the GOP – who doesn’t? – and because you’re angry at the GOP’s failure to stop election fraud in any effective way in certain states, punish the GOP by giving the left everything it needs to destroy the country.
When a few commenters appeared on this blog saying to punish the GOP by not voting in the Georgia runoffs, my first thought was “Trolls.” I’ve been at this blogging business for long enough to recognize the m.o. of trolls when I see it. I do think many of them are trolls, but not all. The argument – which I think is being heavily promoted by the left – has been picked up by many people who actually are on the right and who are very very very angry.
I’m angry too. But when I’m angry, I don’t think it makes a whole lot of sense to disembowel myself and hand my entrails to my enemies.
Yes, I know that the “logic” is that the election is rigged anyway, but there’s no logic whatsoever in handing US Senate over to the Democrats without fighting with every ounce of effort. That will just further the entrenchment of leftist tyranny, and extend it deeper and deeper into the judicial system as well. I don’t care what your beefs are with the GOP. I share many of those complaints but they pale and fade almost to nothingness in comparison to the perniciousness of the plans of the left. Give them the power and I don’t think they will ever relinquish it.
[NOTE: Take a look, for example, at the comments to this post at RedState. You can see person after person advocating the “don’t vote” idea. Now, I have no idea if these people are really into this or are trolls. I don’t know what their gig is. But it just might be the most destructive thing I’ve ever seen advocated by anyone who purports to be on the right.]
Personally I think it’s a tactic on Lin Wood’s part to kick the GOP establishment in the pants to get their act together. If they dawdle and let the runoff be run under the same rules, the GOP loses both seats, so Wood wants to ramp up the pressure on the Governor and AG to fix things, not necessarily from the wrath of the mob of deplorables, but from McConnell and co. who see their own nests being potentially set on fire. Why weren’t the 2 senate candidates at the stop the steal rally? If I were in GA I would certainly vote, but I might threaten not to in order to get the gov and AG off the sidelines.
I agree. I think it’s an attempt to “blackmail” the governor to do the right thing.
Yes, a technique that is likely to backfire, although I certainly hope not.
I’m not crazy about it. But IMO there has not been enough attention to Mike Lee’s insane H1B expansion at this time, and to the Republicans in the Senate’s going along. That, in itself, is going to do more than Lin Wood ever could to hand those two seats to the Democrats.
I do not understand it. Even someone who strongly feels it the correct policy must realize it is suicidal at that moment. There has been no discussion, no case made. It was just run through. I’m not even that strong an immigration hawk, at least by current Republican standards. But I can certainly see that this is kicking your voters in the teeth, while asking for their votes.
Yes, if I lived in GA, I would vote R for both. But I don’t, so the best I can do is take a grim satisfaction in my understanding that the stupid party is also the masochistic party. At least kamikazes were committing suicide to hurt their enemies.
those two races will be stolen as well if GOP doesn’t take voter fraud seriously or chose to not take it seriously this time because Trump is not the president they preferred. let’s be honest if a completely off putting candidate like Biden can get 81,255,933 votes Republicans might as well forfeit any future presidential election, they will never win, no republican will ever be able to get that many votes and that many votes is just the minimum for the democrats if Biden’s most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of america doesn’t get defeated.
I think the gop wants to lose in georgia so they can blame the base
I agree and said so recently here on another thread. That said, that attitude, short sighted as it is, is perfectly understandable given the repeated ad infinitum hypocritical betrayal of RINO politicians.
And there’s no gainsaying of that truth.
Nevertheless in this, it is a case of “biting off your nose, to spite your face”.
There’s a fundamental, mistaken perception of the democrats and GOPe republicans among those of that persuasion. Namely, that there’s not a bit of difference between the two parties.
Here’s what I think those of that persuasion don’t get; the GOPe absolutely desires our economic enslavement. But as long as it doesn’t affect their income, power and status, they could care less what we think or how we act. And, as long as it’s not disruptive to their position, they support anyone smart or ruthless enough to join them as a member of the elite.
Whereas, the Left needs it ALL; body, heart, mind and soul. Nothing less will do because they’d rather “rule in hell, than serve in heaven”. And “to rule”, you need the final and only say in how things will be.
People get emotional and vent. They are royally mad that they have discovered that the deep state only cares for their own. But in the end they will come out and vote.
What is Lin Wood’s game? He was a life long Democrat which as a trial lawyer is pretty standard. I believe that he is a Trumper in that he is for the little man. His whole life he has fought the corporatists. Sidney Powell and he are just appalled at the lackadaisical response of the GOP establishment who want to be Democrat lite. They are willing to accept the fraud. So I would say he is saying if this is how you are going to be then “to hell with you”. He doesn’t want fakes.
Also I would not put it past Kemp and the SoS to have rigged the senate campaign for Loeffler against Collins. If that is true then you can be doubly angry.
But as Churchill said in WWII about being allied with the Soviet Union even though he was a strong communist critic; “I will give favorable mention to the devil if he helps to defeat the Nazis.” That is where we are. Holding our noses and having to support the lesser of two evils.
But after this election, I will be working to create a new party either inside or outside the Republican party.
The past Viva Frei and Barnes podcast was fascinating in that Barnes pointed out that Trump was screwed by the lawyers around him and that he has to create a new Republican party or substitute. He cited Andrew Jackson doing the same thing in 1824. I highly recommend listening to the past two episodes. I will be really looking forward the next one as that will cover the Georgia video.
One thing is for sure. Our politics will be doing a grand reset. It will be the globalists vs. the nationalists. The technocrats vs. main street. The socialist vs. free market advocates. The Democrats will have a sharp changing of the guard in 2022 as the octogenarians will be forced to retire. Kind of sad that Schumer is the spring chicken of the bunch.
Neo, I am one of those who will no longer vote. The slow incrementalism that occurs with voting republican, I believe, allows well meaning, good people to not see and/or ignore the (admittedly slow) destruction of our republic and civil rights. This is evident by the lack of outrage over video evidence of voter fraud, the capricious use of Covid restrictions, Obama’s droning of an American citizen without trial, obvious murder explained away as suicide, etc. There is more but I know folks here understand my examples. My question for you is this: how is allowing slow incrementalism going to be better for our country? Half the country will allow themselves to be lied to and gaslighted by the Republicans they voted for. By the time they wake up and there is a sufficient number who revolt it may be too late for us to be successful. You have written extensively about people you know and care for not seeing reality. My agreement with your observation is why I will help the democrats seize power by not voting. Their sheer greed and lust for power will be shocking and undeniable when they have one party rule. Plausible deniabilty will be hampered and outrage appropriately directed to the democrats. America’s future path is corporate fascism aided and abetted by paid politicians on both sides. The only question is how fast and will enough rise up to stop it?
The Georgia runoff is in January. Depending on further explosive revelations, the window to address fraud in the presidential election may have closed by then. If the runoff date arrives and Biden remains on track to be inaugurated, an approaching black hole would be viewed with relief.
At this point, MAGA Nation is painfully aware that no significant Republican politicians attended the post election rally in DC. Has anything happened since to offset that insult? Anything at all?
If the worst still looms in January, Georgia patriots are hereby sternly warned: Hold your noses and vote for Loeffler and Perdue, else some of us may call you bad names.
Lightning:
Yes it is easier to resist form inside the reeducation camp than from outside the wire (some hyperbole). Those still outside will see how badly you have been treated and rally to your defense …. (sarc).
Good luck with that, Too much trouble to resist?
Eeyore: “Yes, if I lived in GA, I would vote R for both.”
That’s me. I am livid with anger at GOPe. I will vote for them. BUT. No money. And no “support”, in the sense of talking them up, recommending them to friends, volunteering.
I’m for giving the RINOs just as much support as they gave to my guy. They regard me and mine as more of a danger than they regard Dems. They buy into Dem charges that we’re nasty racists. They’re ashamed of us. “That’s not who we are”. Fine.
There is no better way to discredit the ‘voter fraud stole the election for democrats’ narrative by democrats winning the runoffs handily. Republicans winning the runoffs in a landslide on the other hand will embolden president’s claim of voter fraud in the presidential election that might not be enough to overturn the result this cycle but beneficial to trump’s legacy and is vastly helpful to substantiate trump’s status as a victim who had his presidency stolen, thus putting him in a good position to win the candidacy again four years later if he still wants to make a comeback, or be a kingmaker having the leverage to choose a successor to be the next candidate that will continue his footsteps. That should serve as a good incentive for trump supporters to come out and vote. I am a pragmatic person, trump overturning the election is a long shot, if it is not happening it is important to make Biden a lame duck president to stop further harm to America while we plan our fight back. We currently are at the end of empire strikes back, if we let Luke dies how can we have the return of Jedi?
I am resisting just in my own way. My statement makes it obvious that my decision is geared to forcing those who deny reality a splash of reality to wake them up. I get that you think writing stern letter to senators about voter fraud, attending rallies, and donating money is a way to avoid the camp of which you suggest I will be in. Reality is however that our current means of resistance is pathetic and futile. Why? Not enough are convinced that what you and I see is real. As Robert Barnes mentioned in his last video Trump has no significant institutional republican support. He need more grassroots support to overcome that. He has a lot but not enough. My decision is designed to create a situation where reality becomes undeniable. We have done the slow boil and it is not working. BTW, I don’t believe any person that posts to this blog will be in any camp because when the trains come we we all take up arms and meet our fate fighting back. My fear is that it will be too little too late.
Now I will say that the actions of some posters here are helpful (I have been working on this as well) and that is talking to folks and working on exposing them to the facts that the media doesn’t allow to be widely discussed (in Twitter, Facebook, etc.). Unfortunately, we may not convince enough to make a difference, which feeds in to my aforementioned post.
Half of the country voted for trump in this difficult time, many of the young conservatives with aspirations in politics will be more trump type conservatives than a rino or egos type, the bush Romney cheney type’s grip on the gop is fading they are old, soon the young trump type conservatives with fighting spirit will take over the party, it is important for us to hold the line for them buying them time by doing our part to slow down democrats’ destruction of America so they still have an America to save when their time comes
What’s the cliche definition of insanity?
What do abused spouses do?
Sure, go ahead and vote them in, just don’t expect them to oppose much, if at all, once in.
I have no issues attempting to hold the line, as Trump does not, but history betrays what that vote really means.
Sure, you won’t get full throated leftism, but you will get it nevertheless.
Dave, I hope you are right but how do we help keep them from being sidelined or co-opted by the establishment GOP? I ask honestly because I was active during the Tea party movement but was thwarted. In my area specifically, redistricting got rid of our candidate and we have been unable to change the redistricting. Then, to make it worse our republican govenor at the time signed a deal tha cost taxpayers a bundle and we cannot undue this contract. This made many in the middle so ticked off that the state has gone democrat. Hence my frustration with the voting system and establishment GOP.
Lightning:
If you were working 24-hours a day 7 days a week for the left, you could not possibly be any more useful to them. It is one thing to be angry at the GOP, it is another to play into the hands of the left.
I have come to think that people who hold the sort of view that you express – wanting to “force those who deny reality a splash of reality to wake them up” are themselves in denial of reality. The reality is that your not voting for them does nothing – zero – to “wake them up.” It merely puts leftists in power.
And this is reality for you: once the far left is in power (and that’s what we’re talking about here) it won’t matter how woken up the GOP is, the rules of the game will be changed so that never will Americans have liberty again. It is you who denies that reality. The fact that electing members of the GOP merely delays a trend in that direction gives you and/or anyone time to work to change things. That has nothing to do with “writing stern letters to senators about voter fraud” or attending rallies. It has to do with grass roots work – talking to regular citizens, getting active in your local party and perhaps even running for office, doing the hard slogging work to change things rather than thinking some empty gesture of staying home on election day will act to wake anyone up.
Here’s another dose of reality: most people don’t want to be politicians and most people can’t hack it as politicians. It takes a certain kind of person, ordinarily: ambitious and narcissistic. It also takes money, and with money usually comes favoring the sources of that money. Politicians also tend to become more corrupt as they get more entrenched in office, more beholden to special interest groups. This is part and parcel of politics, and nothing you do is going to change it.
The perfect is the enemy of the good. The lesser of two evils really can be the best choice – and buying time is better than throwing in the towel.
Texasdude:
The definition of insanity is getting angry at the GOP and therefore letting the far left take charge of the whole shebang. See my comment right above this one.
Also, voting and doing other things to effect change are not two mutually exclusive courses of action. Do both.
Lightning;
You will enjoy your critical race theory reeducation and the struggle sessions needed to reform your thought processes, but it will never be adequate. Welcome to serfdom.
Sit out the election, you have to conserve your energy for the “real” struggle. What a tool.
Speaking only for myself and Not a Ga voter:
The difference in paradigms in the discussions seem to be between:
Those who think that RINOs are substantially different from Dems. And that because they give a different career politician the job of fronting for their particular group (Majority/Minority Leader, Speaker, etc.) the end result will be different for “us” (We The People).
And:
Those who don’t see a functional difference. We “hold our noses and vote for them anyway” and nothing “good” comes from it. Just a continued slow slide in a bad direction.
If I read that right, THOSE are the arguments that you will have to directly address and overcome to change hearts. And votes.
And name calling probably won’t do it…. Neither will pointing out the same old arguments. WHY will it be DIFFERENT THIS time? Specifically? If you can’t answer that….
William sends…
TexasDude:
Why do you see a difference between the two private clubs who control our government? Their leaders have dinner in the same restaurants. They vacation in the same places. They socialize more with each other and Big $$ donors than they do with the folks they “represent”.
I just don’t see what you seem to say you see.
Though I’d really Like to see it and believe it.
I REALLY, Really would.
William sends…
Neo @ 9:45 – well said and well stated.
BUT………….
Do they make it ever so hard for us. Here Trump is flying down to rally support for Perdue and he says he can cut deals with Biden. I can understand him saying what he did in that he wants to help govern, but this is the wrong message to send at this time. Now is the time to fight.
Listen to the clip. I read this at Gateway Pundit and I can understand why he is so angry and he does has a large audience. This is what riles Lin Wood up. Cheese eating surrender monkeys.
https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/1334963012239671297?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1334963373784567809%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thegatewaypundit.com%2F2020%2F12%2Fwth-senator-perdue-trashes-trump-day-coming-campaign-georgia-says-biden-will-easy-work%2F
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/wth-senator-perdue-trashes-trump-day-coming-campaign-georgia-says-biden-will-easy-work/
I am not angry at the GOP, neo, but disillusioned by the GOP.
I am not saying that Georgians should not vote for the GOP candidates, but for them not to expect them or the GOP in it’s entirety to oppose much or any of the Biden administration.
I say be realistic based on past beatings and abuse, even recently against Trump.
The GOP USED Trump. The GOP does not give’s a rat’s patooey about the reasons why Trump even exists which is to the detriment of the GOP and which gives Democrats glee.
Granted, some of the GOP do care, but most do not.
Prove me wrong. I will gladly accept it if so.
Those who can’t distinguish between BLM/Antifa/AOC and her compatriots and Republicans of whatever fortitude are, well, special, but very principled, (sarc)
But hey they seem to feel better venting about putting it to the Rhinos and GOPe as if it will hurt the left in any way. What a bunch of tools. Muster the circular firing squad. Useful idiots indeed.
William:
The difference is stark.
It is the difference between the US now and Venezuela now.
Or, if you prefer, it is the difference between the US now and Cuba or worse.
Or try this: it is the difference between pre-Chavez Venezuela and Venezuela now.
Or, it is the difference between a country people still want to come to and a country they wish to run away from.
“ Why do you see a difference between the two private clubs who control our government?” by William
I don’t. They are not. Both parties march left.
Until … Trump.
Then both parties went after him. The Republicans used him and mostly clicked their tongues at the populism behind Trump all the while aiding and abetting the Democrats against his presidency.
Trump truly has made a significant amount of the GOP cognizant of this, but not enough, sadly.
TexasDude:
If I lived in Georgia, I doubt I’d be under any illusions as I voted for the 2 GOP candidates, but I would be eager to vote for them nevertheless.
And I would be surprised if you weren’t at least somewhat angry with the GOP as well as disappointed. I certainly am angry at and disappointed with some of them. However, as you yourself indicated, they are not all the same by any means.
TexasDude:
And please also see my comment at 10:23 PM.
They’re not trolls, they’re just dopes. And they are susceptible to whatever cleverly constructed disinformation campaign gives them as a steer after getting them addle-pated and angry.
There is no good argument in favor of punishing rotten Republican Senatorial candidates by electing Democrat Senators for 6 years. It doesn’t help. It should be pointed out that anyone wanting Trump re-elected now or in 4 years’ time would be saddling him with unmanageable Senators and the loss of the Senate, potentially for all four years, or at least for his first two years – the most important years in a Presidential term.
Rotten Republican Senators have to be dealt with as a separate game, the one that involves intense scrutiny and embarrassment campaigns by stake-holding constituents. The same for reforming the Republican Party. There is no point imagining that popping up to the infield in today’s game is going to affect the scrimmage tomorrow. You have to show up for both and play your best game.
Neo:
I used to believe in Reagan’s “Shining City” reference. I really did.
You say that it’s a difference between the US as we exist and Cuba or Venezuela. I understand that reference and see why it might be made. I wish I could still believe it was that simple. All I see is that it’s a matter of time before we’re there. The Republicans want to take us there slowly and the Dems want to go fast.
Either way, as things stand, it’s just a matter of “when” not where and the argument that a faster slide might wake more folks up is pretty strong. At least it’s not trying the same thing again hoping…. Hoping for different results. This is just a different gamble.
Now DJT…. He seems to be something actually different. And it Almost gives me hope. But watching the GoP establishment working as hard as it is to maintain the status quo with their friends the Dem establishment… Well, a lot of folks have Hope for him, not “the party”. Support is expected to go both ways, not just one. If they want support, they have to give it too.
William Sends…
Seen on the Internet:
“2008: Look, McCain might not be your first choice, but we have to support our candidate or the dems will win!
2012: Look, Romney might not be your first choice, but we have to support our candidate or the dems will win!
2016: Fuck that, we’re taking our ball and going home! Fuck you, Trumpers!
2020: Look, Perdue and Loeffler might not be your first choice, but we have to support our candidates or the dems will win!”
TexasDude:
Trump I can support. And I will. But he’s Not the GoP, even though they were both able to use each other. But the GoP as an organization… It’s just a slower trip to hell with no chance for change.
William sends…
I’ll let Don Surber speak for me …
“ In Georgia, Republican Governor Brian Kemp also is aiding and abetting the theft of his state’s 16 electors.
At the same time he is urging voters to vote for Republican senators David Perdue and Kelly Loeffler in the January 5 runoff because we don’t want Democrats to take over the Senate.
…
Kemp needs to explain what good the Senate is because we had control for 4 years under a Republican president.
Yes, I am thrilled with the appointment and confirmation of hundreds of conservative judges and three justices. I have written about this regularly throughout President Donald John Trump’s first term.
But a Republican Senate refused to repeal Obamacare.
And a Republican Senate slow-walked President Trump’s appointments of his Cabinet and other department heads.
And a Republican Senate failed to fund construction of a wall that had overwhelming support from Republican voters.
Now having given away Arizona’s two Senate seats to Democrats in the past two years, the establishment expects voters in Georgia to show up on January 5 and save their minority because a Republican Senate under a Democrat president has more power than a Republican minority under a Democrat regime.
Without control of the Senate, Republicans in Washington lose relevance.
Cry me a river.“
https://donsurber.blogspot.com/2020/12/oh-now-republicans-need-us.html?m=1
The GA runoff happens after SCOTUS potentially saves everyone’s bacon.
Absent that miracle, the GatewayPundit item referenced by Spartacus
has turned hopes for a nose-holding Perdue win sharply south.
The natural reaction to such malignancy is avoidance.
Any way you cut it, revulsion is revulsion.
Also noted:
In the past 36 hours, the GOP Senate unanimously passed a bill to expand access for foreign workers, rejected Trump’s call to eliminate Sec 230, and had a GA senator up for re-election boast that Biden and McConnell will be deal-makers.
What does that tell you?
— Julie Kelly ?? (@julie_kelly2) December 4, 2020
TexasDude,
I couldn’t agree more with Mr. Surber more.
William sends…
“You say that it’s a difference between the US as we exist and Cuba or Venezuela. I understand that reference and see why it might be made. I wish I could still believe it was that simple. All I see is that it’s a matter of time before we’re there. The Republicans want to take us there slowly and the Dems want to go fast.” William
We all agree that the GOPe are as corrupt as the democrats.
Yes, they capitulate to the democrats to keep their gravy train going.
But the GOPe doesn’t want to outlaw Christianity. It doesn’t want to eviscerate your inalienable rights. It doesn’t want to force down our throats infanticide, transgender ‘rights’, BLM, antifa, defunding the police, opening the prisons and forcing a questionable vaccination upon you. All that the GOPe really wants is to get their hands deeper into our wallets.
The RINO GOPe does NOT want to take us down to Maduro’s Venezuela. The democrats absolutely will though they’ll deny it, now, then and forever.
The RINO GOPe wants to take us down the path that leads to the traditional South American oligarchy; a relatively small, obscenely wealthy elite, a substantially larger merchant class and a vast majority of peons.
Imagine taking a poll of Venezuelans asking are they better off today than before Chavez? We all know what the answer will be, and we all can take a pretty good guess as to the percentages who would vote negatively.
A refusal to vote for the R candidates is effectively a vote for Maduro’s Venezuela. No socialist/Marxist ruling class has ever peacefully given up power. Nor, once they have the power will our Marxists.
Geoffrey,
What is the difference, if you have to position to stop it, between actively working to Create Maduro’s Venezuela and simply Letting it happen for your own $elfish reasons?
Specifically, from the perspective of the small business owner, retiree, or blue collar worker.
.
. What is the difference?
William sends…
William ignores all the points Geoffrey Britain makes and posts a troll querry “What, is the difference? None, because greed.”
Seems to be a leftist troll or just a useless idiot.
William:
Of course it’s “not that simple.” These are comments on a blog, not chapters in a lengthy book where details can be fleshed out. But my statements stand; that is exactly what we face.
And anyone who says that “a faster slide might wake more folks up” does not understand what the slide means and what the slide is a slide into. Once that slide happens, there is no getting out and back to liberty for many generations and perhaps ever. I cannot believe that anyone is advocating such a thing with any seriousness.
And as Geoffrey Britain says, the Republicans do not want to take us the exact same place the far left wants to take us. It is an absurdity to believe that. It’s also the case that they don’t want to take us exactly where we want to go, either, but buying time is important to try to change the direction for the better. Once the left takes over, it’s game over.
I wouldn’t think that’s such a difficult concept to take in.
Om,
That wasn’t even a well done ad hominem. Yellow Card.
All Geoffrey’s data made the same point. My point is that it’s not addressing the right question. That question is “If the only difference is ‘how fast we get there’ (and it seems that way to me) what does it matter?”
It’s sort of a reverse “How do you boil a frog?” situation? Letting them work together to turn the heat up slowly has just left us all sitting here.
Maybe turning it up faster for once will get us to jump out of the pot…? If not I really don’t see anything else that will work.
But if it’s easier for you to just call me a “troll” and dismiss the question… maybe you’re part of the problem? If you can’t see the other side’s point and rational, you can’t reach out to explain yours in a way that will matter. And I’d LOVE to be convinced that I’m wrong. But I need something to counter decades of watching them work together while putting on TSA grade theater to maintain the status quo.
William sends…
Neo,
The concept is easy. And I used to believe in it.
But having watched the continuous slow slide for more than a few decades now…. I just don’t see any hope of a “turn around” actually happening.
Instead of asking how “difficult” the concept is to understand. Maybe ask “How difficult it is to believe in again”?
There was a brief glimmer of hope when the original Tea Party started up, before the republican machine co-opted the name and subverted the brand image. The desire and energy is still out there, waiting for something to believe in again. DJT has been that spark again for many, but he’s a cult of personality style leader. Not a “bad” thing per se, just who and what he is. He’s still doing really good things. But it’s not enough to harness and unite those citizens.
In short, I understand most of the arguments, on both sides. I’m just looking for a reason to believe that “that” moment you say will happen if the Dems win this one hasn’t Already happened. As it stands, I believe it has. And it wasn’t recently.
I, and many like me, would really like to have hope again. But it will take more than pretty words.
William sends…
William:
Not William the invincible, but William the inconvincible.
If you don’t know the difference between slow and fast, ask the person who is about to die while still young versus the one who lives to a ripe old age. Death may be inevitable, but the turn of the US to the far left and tyranny isn’t, and buying time has an obvious plus in each case, whether you see that or not.
William,
You ask and argue as I myself did in the past, “My point is that it’s not addressing the right question. That question is “If the only difference is ‘how fast we get there’ (and it seems that way to me) what does it matter?”
Since then I’ve realized a bit more.
It matters first because as neo points out, the destination of the two party’s is NOT the same. The GOPe destination; an oligarchy… can be overcome. As ironically, both Castro and Chavez proved. And before them in Europe all the way back to the French revolution. Oligarchies, by their very nature, have to allow a certain latitude that can and will be leveraged into armed revolt because a limited tyranny eventually has an expiration date.
Marxist dictatorships cannot be overcome through internal revolt by the oppressed majority, as they lack the arms to do so. But even more significantly, Marxism eats the souls of those they oppress because it forces silent compliance with evil… or else. And ‘else’ includes your entire family.
Oligarchies eliminate opportunity and advancement through merit.
Marxism eliminates the will to resist of the common man and physically eliminates those with the internal fortitude to resist.
Killing Sec 230 – now there’s a boon to throw the angry rabble.
What’s that you say JimNorCal? We’re keeping it?
So much for the fast vs slow slide.
We are there.
I don’t have the R-D figures at my fingertips, but 33% of the Senate comes up for re-election in 2 years, as does 100% of the House, and a number of governors, state reps and senators.
I’d offer that Georgia requires a full ‘balls to the wall” GOP effort to demonstrate that We, The People, hold the power to make government whatever we want, which includes voting 100% Dem in 2022 if the Repubs screw us again.
Recognizing that 100% Dems, or even a substantial Dem majority in both federal houses plus a number of the governorships and state houses means “Civil War or Zimbabwe within 2 years, pick one” it’s not an empty threat.
We’re well beyond very severely pissed off about how we and our country are being screwed, and it wouldn’t take all that much to convince people it might be worth seeing how we can do with no meddling at all from Washington for a decade or three; that’s pretty much what we had until 1861 so we know it works.
Yeah, there’s another thread where some dumbass writer — Cunningham, as I recall — was telling people pretty much to suck it up and accept the whole theft as “a done deal”…
The “mods” were banning people for telling him to blow it out his ass.
Red State seems to have been taken over by Deep State lovers. I would not waste my time there any longer.
}}} that’s pretty much what we had until 1861 so we know it works.
Not completely against part of that idea, but… that was a very very different time. Far less interdependence of people, far far more innate autonomy in living, and a nation that was closer to Jefferson’s agrarian ideal than the IP-Services economy we are today. We also had a pair of moats on either side of us and not an awful lot worth stealing.
Today, pretty much every third-rate nation that wants to gain prestige wants to count coup against us, and we have plenty of plunder for those inclined to go after it.
Not saying “No”. Just noting that “It worked for mah great-great-grandpappy!!” is not a particularly valid argument when making your case. This ain’t your gggp’s world.
Contribute to the Georgia GOP Senatorial campaign. Now is the time to fight.
https://secure.winred.com/georgians-for-kelly/perdue-for-senate-defend-the-majority
The GA voters who are checking out are, more or less, correct about the GOPe.
I think I’d take it a step further, the GOPe is irredeemable. However, I think it will be easier to change America while we still have some of our freedoms intact.
Trump has given us a window into the possibility of how great, when using our ideals, things can be. Maybe he’s the guy to start a new party. After all, there are 73 million people who voted for him. That’s the best potential to start a third party we’ve had thus far.
Trump tried to change from within, but the rot is too deep. Let’s keep the senate, if for no other reason than to staunch the bleeding. Then we use our numbers to create an avalanche and roll them all out of DC.
The GA non voters are giving up, we have to have hope. We can’t give up, we have to fight. This may very well be the fight of our lives. If we give up in GA then we may end up fighting in the streets just to keep our religion, our livelihood, our ability to assemble, speak, etc. We still have those so we’re not lost yet. Come on GA we need you now. Don’t give up on the people, let’s stick it to the GOPe and the tyrants on the other side.
Perdue just stated he and a Republican controlled Senate can not only work with Biden, but can be more effective with Biden than with Trump or Obama.
Regarding Trump … it’s not about a cult of personality, but his main points which can be publicly traced to 1980. These points became MAGA.
If you want to call it a cult, fine, but Trump is just a messenger, not the reason.
I won’t defend the GOPe. I will say that the choice between them and lunatic leftists is so obvious we shouldn’t be having to argue about it here. It’s suicidal to put leftists in power; putting GOPe types into power is only disappointing, while buying time to put the occasional conservative into power. In the meantime, even a GOPe Senate will continue to confirm sane judges and to veto some of the craziest legislation. A leftist Senate will not.
I have only to look at the recent S. Ct. decision, with Black, Alito, Gorsuch, Cavanaugh, and Barrett, to be assured of this.
I must add: enabling leftists is not just suicidal, it’s murderous. It’s wrong.
Lin Wood was in full-Baptist preacher mode at the rally…
My takeaway was that Lin Wood was clearly screaming at the Georgia Republican legislators that the voters wouldn’t stand behind a party that didn’t intervene now to stop this fraud. He said this, I think, to provoke them to stop acting like typical go-along-to-get-along Republicans –– only they can save the country, & they must do it now or never…
these arguments remind me of the primary election between Mike Castle and the Witch
and the idiots voted the witch
Republican voters taking back the two houses in the Obama years made the trump presidency possible. Trump’s presidency would be a huge success despite only one term only if gop regain control of the senate, don’t ruin trump’s legacy and other trumpets in the party just because you hate GOPe. Most of the GOPe leaders are in their 70s and 80s, they are not going to be around much longer, if Biden gets absolute power in the next two years the country is done, we need to buy time, swallow your useless pride and hatred for gope and think strategically, winning the runoffs makes a trump comeback possible.
The establishment and the democrats had to pull out everything they got to beat trump, seemingly they succeeded this time around, but for a huge price, they have used up all their trump cards and lost every element of surprise they had, trump exposed them, for years we have known they were cheating but not sure how, we do now. you don’t give up a war just because you lost a battle or two, setbacks are expected, you really think a change this magnitude can be won in one term of presidency? Trump was an outsider who didn’t know the inner working of Washington therefore he failed to achieve further success but if we can buy him time his side can regroup and comeback stronger the next around, if Biden has both houses everything is over, it’s not fearmongering, look at what the dems had done in the last two years, every doomsday scenario is going to be reality. You punish the gope in primaries, this is not the time to do it.
The GA runoffs will be trump’s Dunkirk
I’m with you, neo, but it’s getting exceptionally hard. With Purdue’s remarks on working with Biden, it’s really too much. I even sent him money before that happened! No more!
I’ve worked on every GOP presidential campaign since going door-to-door with my mother for Eisenhower in 1956 (I probably did in 1952 as well, but don’t remember….) and I’m at the point where the party’s lack of fight has me disgusted beyond belief. Reagan was successful with charm, but that’s because the media hadn’t quite gotten it’s demonization act together as it has in the past 20 years. But the Bushes were profound disappointments, and both (Mc)Cain (I think of him as a brother slayer since learning of his role in distributing the Steele smears) and Mittens were such failures as candidates I wonder if they took a dive!
If Trump ends up losing, or the Demoncrats get the Senate, their will either be gulags or a revolution. And, if the Dims hold the levers of power, I don’t trust the military one bit not to go full repression. Some units won’t, but far, far too many will – with the kind of officers whose careers were begun under Clinton and became senior officers under Obama (and even the later stages of Bush 2), I have no illusions.
It’s really dire out there, and the establishment republicans still don’t get it.
William:
It ain’t ad hominem if it is an observation based in your behavior. Sorry your feels are hurting. (not)
I understand their anger and frustration. And I may get there myself. I’m waiting to see how the presidential election turns out. If the situation is rectified, then I will still work within the system. I think getting too upset about Georgia’s senate race is putting the cart before the horse: we still don’t know if we’ll get to the bottom of the election fraud in the POTUS race.
But there’s no point trying to play by the rules when the other side cheats and, more importantly, *succeeds* after cheating. Moreover, there’s no point when the GOP is more eager to cooperate with the cheating side than the side being wronged.
It’s nothing but rationalization to think that you can vote your way out of a rigged system, once the cheat stands.
I’m as frustrated and angry as anyone with GOPe, but this is not the time for intra-party arguments.
The basic question for conservatives is this: Are you going to defend the Constitution or not?
If the DNC wins Georgia, they win the Senate. If they win the Senate, they will:
(1) Pass “judicial reform”, filling all levels of the Judiciary with leftists. The Constitution will be “re-interpreted” to take away basic human rights, including 1st and 2nd amendment rights.
(2) Add new “states” so that conservatives will be a permanent minority in the Senate and will have a permanent disadvantage in the House.
(3) Enshrine election fraud in Federal law. The fraud that provided the DNC the path to the White House will become a way of life. Fair elections will be a thing of the past.
(4) Flood the US with immigrants and grant them a path to citizenship.
(5) The politicization of the justice system will be accelerated. DOJ/FBI and local DA’s will ignore laws they don’t like, protect their allies, and punish their enemies.
(6) Corporate power will be used to expose and punish incorrect political opinions.
(7) Organized leftist violence will continue to be used to keep conservatives in line.
The Constitution lives or dies based on the election in Georgia. If conservatives won’t fight to save the Constitution, what will they “conserve”?
The two GA R candidates do not seem strong to me.
If it was going to be a regular election at least one would probably win.
With everything on the line, and the entire national (and global) left is all in on winning this one, with money, lawyers, and fraud …
I give the Rs no chance unless the GOP institutes safeguards.
If the GOP is not going to at least do that, then arguing with each other over trying to save the GOP from the fate they choose for themselves is pointless.
We are living in a most interesting time, things are not working out the way I was expecting them to over all of my years and I was born during WWII. Since I am not in control of the ‘make my wishes come true machines’ both for the presidential election and the Georgia runoff I am no longer interested in projections by experts and others about what should have happened, might happen and all the what if’s and if only’s. I avoid most all media and I going to do my best to enjoy each day I have and prepare the best I can for the bad stuff that might happen. I have more disappoint than anger and my voting choices have always been for the candidate I disliked the least since I have seen a lot of sorry folks from both parties in office over my seven plus decades. At this time I am choosing to make the best out of my circumstances and enjoy all of the good blessings life has given me and my family as we continue through difficult months, I might as well stay positive since the pay is the same either way.
Yammer has it all under control so all can rest easy, or not. He and William will slay those windmills!
But somehow Yammer is being repressed again, maybe little “q” will come to his aid?
Yammer on!
If the two Republicans lose under the identical suspicious circumstances as trump then maybe that would wake up gop to start taking voter fraud seriously because it is their jobs that will be on the line too. The last thing true patriots wanted is the gope can pin these losses on trump voters boycotting the runoffs so they get the wrong message and continue to not have the urgency to fight for more election security measures. Losing is expected, but it’s more desirable that it is clear they lose because of clear democrats cheating again then only because trumpets boycotting. Please stop giving excuses democrats can use to cover up their cheating, last time they succeeded by saying republicans don’t use mail in to rationalise their ridiculous edge on absentee ballots, this time they can again cover up their cheating by using the supposed boycotting by trumpers.
F rabbit, the president places strategic import on ga. https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1335268230206722048?s=19
Yes, and i will continue on, even if all child rapists, deep state, and humanity wars against god.
Just give up on the senate and hand the leftists total power in hopes it will wake everyone up? How many times have we had to listen to that stupid, emotionally self indulgent, shit, before?
Reflect instead how many history changing events (King Alfred as an obvious example, the impeachment trial of Andrew Johnson, another) turned not on an outright victory but an equivocal stalemate, or even the narrow avoidance of complete annihilation?
What then, do these historically illiterate and emotional morons think that their suicidal tantrums will acheive, other than total, irreversible subjection under a superficially legal process?
I understand their anger. Most of us hate politics, and only want problems to be resolved so we dont have to constantly deal with them. Unlike Demos, we have no inherent interest in the circle j.. eh, dance, the social display cocktail party, the mutual hand sniffing and admiration exercises which constitute the sacred experience of the Democrat kind and set them quivering with delight. We just want to be done with it … once and for all.
But in a world of antibiotics and welfare payments, that is not presently – though we may be getting closer -possible. I mean seriously, we may be within a couple of decades of being able to tell the f##ked up to seek readily available cures for their dysfunctions physical, emotional, and intellectual, or to f##k off, and do it without any moral qualms or indictments from the compassion party. Liberalism, should become obsolete, otiose, absurd.
But for now, if we wish to try and preserve what is left of the geographic and constitutional heritage [we all admit the social identification and mutual interest union is dead] of the union, then we better stop threatening to shoot ourselves in the head.
Those who imagine they are going to get some kind of political settlement involving two countries, or some other form of advantageous divorce out of a leftist government after “burnimg it all down” in order to give them complete power, are delusional.
Forget the questions of who ultimately owns the nuclear arsenal, the military, federal installations or how an economy or banking might function, or how defense will be funded in a world of opportunistic competitors: where are you going to find an anchor state with a large population that has not already been subjected to settlement by large subpopulations of institution niche seekers, and state dependents?
If it is all to come crashing down on our heads, if the heritage of 250 years of law and liberty is to be lost, let it not be through petulance or misguided attempts at political extortion practiced by the very people who are supposedly most upset at the prospect.
By the way, anyone notice how quiet Antifa and BLM have been?
William, look up military tribunals q mcinterney.
Hope in humans is meaningless. The elections have failed. All efforts are being expended.
God wins
Are you sure the Deep State wants the jackass party to control the US Senate? For example it is possible that RINO Loeffler got “Dominion help” in her primary and her opponent is a nut bar and some of you have already expressed disappointment with RINO Perdue. I think both of them were intended to win on election night. You should not assume that anything is as it appears to be.
i don’t see real trump voters saying these bullshits, i think its the democrat sleep agents again spreading these stupid ideas to suppress republican turnout while giving cover to their cheating operation. real patriots echoing this dangerous idea does nothing but help democrats while undermining Trump.
A recent poll from the GA runoff election.
I was surprised to see Perdue(GOPe) down a fraction but Loeffler (GOPe) up nearly 5 points.
then I reflected on the fact that Perdue dissed PDJT recently and probably cooled the enthusiasm of traditional American voters.
Also, Loeffler is running against a completely nutjob Dem whereas Perdue’s opponent keeps his insanity more under wraps.
(Trafalgar)
https://mobile.twitter.com/RobertCahaly/status/1334912813974884353
“I might as well stay positive since the pay is the same either way.”
That’s a keeper.
Dave: “maybe that would wake up gop to start taking voter fraud seriously”
For many of us, it has become clear … no: crystal clear! … that GOP is not waking up and will not wake up. We (Trump supporters, TEA party, traditional American values) are less acceptable to them than Dems. They are embarrassed by us. They don’t approve of us. They accept the Dem charges that we are racist and evil. When we speak they whisper to themselves: “That’s NOT who we are.”
Change my mind.
Fight for the Georgia Senate seats. Fight for Kyle Rittenhouse. Fight for the cops who are being railroaded from Minneapolis to Atlanta to Kenosha to Louisville.
Fight against Biden and Harris, against Cuomo and DeBlasio, against Schumer and Pelosi, against The NYT, WaPo, The Atlantic, The New Yorker, MSNBC, CNN, The degenerate culture of Hollywood and the late night TV hosts. Against BLM and Antifa. Against Dorsey and Zuckerberg.
As for the GOP: There are Republicans such as Cruz, Cotton, Hawley, and the very much up and coming Elise Stefanik. They are genuine soldiers against the Left.
Fight for Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch, Kavanaugh and Barrett.
This is really not the time for the wringing of hands – it’s time to fight.
DNW,
“Those who imagine they are going to get some kind of political settlement involving two countries, or some other form of advantageous divorce out of a leftist government after ‘burning it all down’ in order to give them complete power, are delusional.”
I favor divorce over civil war and am happy to at least consider practical scenarios for that alternative. If that makes me delusional, so be it. Understand, however, that I emphatically do not “imagine [we] are going to get [it] out of a leftist government after ‘burning it all down’”. You’re imputing to me an argument that I am not making. If divorce happens, it will happen because red states and counties get their act together now, and are prepared to back up their position with force if necessary. That’s a long shot, but it’s possible. Especially if the incentive to do so is strong enough. Loss of life, liberty, and property is a pretty strong incentive. We are already seeing pushback against COVID restrictions, and in deep blue states. People put up with stuff until they don’t, and the don’t can happen suddenly.
Geoffrey Britain has said that civil war is inevitable. TJ has said that civil war is inevitable. Zaphod has strongly implied that civil war is inevitable. You seem to be saying that civil war (or submission) is inevitable. Very well. How do y’all see it playing out? The Leftists nuke us, The End? Or something else? Serious question. If you don’t want to answer, just say so. I’ll take your choice as a sign that (a) you have no clue, or (b) you have ideas, but prefer not to discuss them on a public forum. Or perhaps, like me, you’re simply reluctant to play armchair strategery. FWIW, I’m in the (a) category. I don’t know how a civil war would play out, except disastrously. I do believe that there are many people in this country who would fight before submitting to death-in-life under a totalitarian regime, however.
I infer that you live in Michigan. I live in Alabama. Have you ever spent any time in the Deep South? If you had, you might not be so quick to despair of our chances.
DNW @ 12: 46 – Mavel Tov. A tight well constructed essay on why we fight and the ramifications.
LeClerc – Yes name the people who we fight for and who is fighting for us. Leading the way.
The internet can be so entertaining.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOtz9PuFQG0
Hi. I am not imputing that argument, or better, form of wishful thinking to you. I am not even thinking in terms of a Czech and Slovak type divorce as being too sunny and criticizing it.
I am arguing that once one cedes all leverage and becomes completely powerless within the established system, one’s hopes of gaining more back within it by the rules in return, is irrational.
I am also arguing, or indicating, that the establishment of a separate and sustainable federal polity in this world, where the US is by definition not going to be sheltered by the US while the former US tries it, is a very iffy proposition, even if the American left somehow agreed to it.
In any event, I did not have you in mind.
I’m generally pretty good about quoting the people whose direct views I am addressing, or at least addressing them if it’s just an attaboy, or something.
Regards …
The question in our times with regards to the Left is who gets to be Carthage?
Carthago delenda est
The left will not abide with a “divorce” or “separation.”
All Commies Are Bastards.
DNW,
Thanks, and my apologies for getting hold of the wrong end of the stick. Since I have indeed raised national divorce as a possible alternative to what we have now or might have in future, I took your post more personally than I should have. My willingness to consider a national divorce (or quarantine arrangement) is inspired by my utter loathing of the Left and my unwillingness to share a country with the likes of Montage on our forum or Paul Dueffert over at Powerline. Harsh words, perhaps, but merited based on what they have shared of their political attitudes and preferences. That said, I have no desire to subjugate or vanquish them. Separation is preferable. Let us go our ways and–as Montage put it–“may the best ideas win”. If Biden & Co. represent the personification of Montage’s “best ideas”, I feel pretty confident about our side’s chances.
To be absolutely clear: I don’t give a sh*t whether the Left agrees to it or not. I’m saying do it unilaterally if necessary. But plan and prepare for it first. And yes, it would be a very iffy proposition. Still, it would be better than surrendering to the coming tyranny from D.C.
I agree about the folly of surrendering leverage in the existing system. If I lived in Georgia, I would vote unhesitatingly for the lousy, possibly even corrupt GOP candidates. I just voted last month for a lousy, possibly even corrupt GOP candidate in my state because it will help us keep the Senate. Yes, the GOPe sucks. It’s still immeasurably better than the alternative, which is a very sad comment on the state of our politics. Those who think that withholding their votes from the GOPe out of pique and allowing the Democrats to win the Senate will somehow lead to something better are, well, delusional.
I never said so, but you infer closely enough given how I yap about hunting Up North, and all. LOL
I have lived in Houston/Friendswood Texas, and in Charlotte, N.C., neither of which is in the deep south. I found the people of Texas to be among the, if not the most, agreeable and simpatico I have ever met.
I would however like to leave a comment on my time in Charlotte NC; which since I lived there, has been noticeably colonized by Northeasterners, bringing with them the very same moral and psychological disorders the effects of which they are in some instances fleeing South to escape.
In any event, already having an intimate familiarity with the industries of the national rustbelt, I was transfered to Charlotte. The first thing I did on arriving was to order a manufacturer’s directory for the twin states. The preface boasted that the region comprised the third most vital industrial, or at least metalworking manufacturing area, in the United States.
In fact, and upon discovery, the largest tool and die shop in the Carolinas, would only have compared with a somewhat above average facility in Warren, Michigan.
There were of course railroad repair shops, the remains of textile machinery engineering firms, arsenals [Anniston, Ala], or high tech as in Huntsville, Westinghouse turbine in NC, and oil tool companies over in Houston, but in aggregate, including all the transplant assembly and processing facilities put in these states by Northen companies, I doubt the sum total through the whole south, excluding Texas aerospace (and possibly including it) equalled the industrial design and tool makimg power of just the Detroit metropolitan counties of Wayne, Macomb, and Oakland.
Now, things have changed in the last couple decades for the worse in the North and possibly for the better in the South, and we are not preparing to refight WWII. But it is something to consider.
And then of course we get into IT …
JimNorCal:
Plenty of GOP governors and members of Congress don’t fit your description. Plenty do. And nearly all of them are better than every single Democrat governor and Democrat member of Congress.
I don’t have to convince you of anything or change your mind. Look at the evidence, and you either see it or you don’t.
Dave:
I agree it’s mostly leftist trolls doing their psych-op thing. But there are definitely some people on the right who are Trump supporters who are buying it – at least for the moment. I hope none of them live in Georgia.
RedState is a conservative clickbait disaster.
The most breathtaking woman I had ever seen in my then young life, and I had seen plenty, waited table on me at a restaurant/club in or near, Selma, Alabama. Dark haired and rather young, she was not even my type. But I literally started laughing when she began talking to me in that drawl. She made Vivian Leigh, look like a honking mouse in comparison. I think the clerk at the hotel recommended I eat there. It might have been dry to all but members, but some fellows at the next table made some hospitable remarks and conversation. Cannot actually recall whether it had to do with my getting a martini or not. LOL
Colombia, SC, was noticeably hospitable too.
Chases Eagles:
Trump is unequivocally supporting both Loeffler and Perdue.
DNW:
Ditto to your comment at 12:46 on December 5.
CatoRenasci; I Am Sparticus:
That report on what Perdue said about Biden was by Gateway Pundit via the WaPo, and the clip is a truncated quote. The WaPo is very interested in turning conservatives against Perdue, and Gateway Pundit is very interested in getting clicks.
It is also taken from a private discussion, so I’ve found it difficult at this point to understand what Perdue meant and in what context he said it. However, this is from the WaPo article, with a little context [emphasis mine] [also note the WaPo’s need to throw in a few phrases like “baseless” and “without evidence”]:
I have been unable so far to find this RJC video.
DNW,
I could go on for hours about how great the South is, but I don’t want blue staters moving here when they finish effing up their own states. When I visit New England, I make a point of telling everyone that Alabama is full of stupid fat people. Stupid, racist fat people. With guns. And Bibles. The Bible thing works especially well with northeastern members of my tribe, who are ignorant of the fact that the Deep South is almost certainly the most Jew-friendly part of the country. Since my slander jibes with what they read in The New Yorker and hear on NPR, they believe it.
Anyway, your long-ago experience in Selma is typical, both as regards the unselfconscious beauty and the reflexive friendliness. You should have asked her to church. My most jaw-dropping newbie experience here was watching a procession of runway-worthy young women sauntering in gauzy skirts and high heels into church one sunny Sunday morning.
As for the accent, here’s Katharine Philipps recounting VJ Day in Mobile:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFO_t4slG0E
From the Ken Burns documentary. I once witnessed a group of Mobile ladies of Ms. Philipps’ generation cracking each other up by imitating her saying “thuh Wo-ah”.
Neo, I do not mean to imply lack of support. As you and others have made quite clear, options are limited. I am suggesting that the oligarch wing of the deep state may not be against us on this one. They want Trump gone not the GOPe. Divided government probably suits them just fine. This resembles Game of Thrones. They just need to fend off Stacy what’s-her-face’s unwanted “help”.
Chases Eagles:
I understand.
That is a wing of the party, though, not the entire party. And I guess we agree on the fact that the two candidates in Georgia MUST be supported or the consequences are very dire.
Such a great blog, so many good comments.
With the video, I understand Gov. Kemp is now on board with signature verification.
Probably too little, too late …
Usually I’m in such agreement with Neo that I don’t even need to comment. So I try to add some other perspective, including support for hearing from semi-troll Montage, so as to get a specific case of how a Trump hating liberal thinks on an issue. He might well be here gloating a bit.
In this case, while I’m pretty strongly supporting those who vote FOR the two Reps, I don’t think the “steelman” argument has quite been made for not voting, and letting the Dems win the seats and the Senate. It hasn’t been merely a strawman by William, but … maybe merely a Tin-man arg so far?
The USA needs a Republican Party that is fighting, to win, elections. Many of the currently elected and appointed Reps are not such fighters.
How to change that?
Can we agree that we need more Rep fighters, tho we might disagree on the best way to get them? [in my own talks with liberals, I often try to emphasize our agreement on the goals – less racism, less sexism, more income for working poor]
First, there are two phases in “NOT voting for wimpy Reps”: 1) before the SC / state courts decide on certification, and 2) after Biden is officially declared the winner and before the vote (assuming Trump’s still 5% chance of winning fails). [Neo’s huge “useful idiots” accusation essentially assumes Biden has won, 95% likely but not yet a fact]
The main goal of “NOT voting wimpy Rep”: make Kemp & GA Reps push to not certify the election for GA because of fraud, since not pushing means they accept the fraud. How to show deep, “fighting spirit” anger? a) sit in PJs at a computer and complain about wimpy Reps not fighting (easy!), b) weekly / daily protests outside around the Capital of Georgia in Atlanta – by the thousands, hundreds of thousands (hard!).
Computers are supposed to make lives easier…
Trump is visiting Georgia Sat., Dec 5, 7pm – rally https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump
Are you going, William? Others near Georgia? (I’m NOT flying from Slovakia, nor do I expect Neo to fly from New England – Neo, have you ever been in Georgia?)
The news that many Trump-supporting Republican voters are thinking about not voting for the Rep in the run-off helps the “Republican” SoS take action to verify signatures, and not certify the results.
I, Tom Grey, fully support this tactic as one semi-effective way to push the wimpy Reps in GA to be more anti-fraud active. I claim protests, outside on the street, or possibly in the car, would be even more effective. Merely agreeing to vote Rep in Jan is better than not voting, but continues Rep wimpiness. Republicans lose, Lose, LOSE, if they continue to be wimpy. “Read my lips” wimpy Bush 41.
If Trump loses, and he hasn’t lost yet, how he loses changes the arguments about how to vote. However, even back just before the election, there were many college educated folk who were anti-Trump AND anti-woke:
http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/anti-woke-anti-trump/
(Arnold is my second favorite comment blog – I don’t comment on Instapundit much I’ve liked him since Tech Central Station in 2003 or so, just before Neo changed from commenting on Michael Totten’s blog to blogging herself – thanks!)
Here’s my steelman addition:
With Biden as President, and the House controlled by Dems, is it better for the USA to have Dems also control the Senate, or have Reps with divided gov’t? Maybe it’s better that the Dems get 100% responsibility with 100% power. So that everything, for two years, can be blamed on the Dems.
Whenever any of us talk with a Dem, we can remind them that if they have a complaint, it’s the Dems fault.
I wish I could say the Dems “won’t have Trump to kick around anymore”, but I’m sure he’ll be around, and the Dems will be trying to blame him. But not being Pres…
“It’s Trump fault”
“When Trump was Pres., he wasn’t blaming Obama too much for the mess, he started making things better with tax cuts and deregulation. Biden/ Harris is now failing to make things better, they are getting worse.”
The real culture war is Woke – Wokesheviks are busy cancelling those they disagree with … because of Trump. With Biden as Pres., more Republicans and Independents will see the Dems are run by Wokeshevik true believers, and vote Rep in 2022.
Only a big Rep 2022 House and Senate landslide can save the USA.
—
I don’t quite believe this (20%? 40%?), but I do believe it might be true, and believe it’s the strongest argument for “NOT voting Rep” in GA in the runoff (itself needed only because of early fraud).
Finally, not included above, is that Neo’s prediction, and many, of “never again a free election”, seems unlikely to me, tho also quite plausible (40%).
America will lose its freedom because of laziness; it IS losing its freedom because of laziness. Fighting for freedom, far more then protesting, is hard work, with uncertain outcome.
Germans under commies protested, in hundreds of thousands, in Nov 1989. Successfully. Chinese did too, “too early”, in June of 1989 at Tiananmen, fail. Venezuelans too – so far unsuccessfully.
These 2020 elections were stolen. All freedom loving Americans should be protesting the steal. Even my own blog posting seems impotent and useless relative to the mass protests needed to stop the theft.
Who is stealing the election? The Deep State – gov’t bureaucrats, aided by elected gov’t officials and their non-elected appointees.
Dictatorship of the “nomenklatura” is what the reality of communism is.
Dictatorship of the deep state is what the USA seems headed for.
Pingback:Vote in GA for Reps – altho we need more Rep fighters – Tom Grey – Families, Freedom, Responsibility
Neo et alia: so support Loeffler and Perdue!
With more than words, though words matter but also with muchos dineros. I have done so.
Otherwise they will be drowned out by the Dems who are flooding the state with dollars and persons, persons who are illegally registering to vote as Georgians.
We truly stand at the edge of an abyss, an edge that is crumbling away under our feet.
Remember who are GOPers in the Senate: super-moralists like Sasse, phonies like Romney and Collins. Can we count on them? No, we cannot.
This is supposedly Olympia today? Antifa routed? Looks right for the sun and weather for today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN4UGjVx3Jg&feature=emb_logo
Om,
It’s not a matter of ‘feels’. It’s more a matter of whether or not You are willing to have a real conversation w/someone who doesn’t see things your way. But is trying to find hope that has been lost.
I think you’ve answered that question quite definitively.
But understand that THIS is why you fail to progress.
Enjoy your pointless snark and echo-chambering.
William sends…
Geoffrey @02.52,
That’s almost enough to get me to reengage…. History proves you right.
The Possibility that I might be wrong is almost enough on it’s own…..
I think we’ve already past that point after watching the political character assassinations (Petraeus comes quickly to mind but is only one), multiple “suicides” (pick your favorite), and sudden changes of position (C.J. Roberts! Talking to You!) that couldn’t possibly have anything to do with successful blackmail… Too many coincidences for a man who doesn’t believe in ‘coincidences’ happening all that often.
I’ll have to give it some thought.
Thank you for that.
William sends…
Aggie,
You see a difference between “Rotten Republicans” and Democrats (Man! The Irony in calling themselves that is Yuge!). I can’t really tell anymore. They’ll all cut the same deals. They’ll all take more $$ from our families while giving it to their pet groups and pork projects. They are all kicking the can down the road while taking $$ from Intl Corps and other countries. The only differences I see anymore are more a matter of style (what polls they pay for to quote at us, etc.) than substance.
And THAT’s the core of my issue.
I really wish I could still tell the difference. But I just don’t see it anymore.
And if that makes me a ‘fool’ from your perspective… meh.
.
Now, If we could figure out how to get someone worth voting for out of, or instead of, the private clubs. Someone who might Actually represent their Constituents… … … That would be a game changer.
William sends…
Willliam:
There are wise and eloquent folks on this blog who have quite adequately shown the folly of your posts; Geoffrey Britain, DNW, Hubert, Neo among others, and yet you persist. You trolls are like that.
And as an example of your folly, you claim to be unable to tell the difference between “Rotten Republicans” and “Democrats” of today. Nothing from Geoffrey or Neo or DNW has dented your self regard, quite the man you are.
William Tell(s) loved freedom “William sends” not so much.
Tom Grey (December 5, 2020 at 6:12),
Heh. Less of a “tin man” than a “beaten man” argument. Once you beat someone with a stick enough times, they don’t try to block it anymore. They’ve learnt than it just makes it worse and lay there and take it. Like I said above. I used to believe in the Repub Club. But that’s been beaten out of me since the 90s.
How do you (we?… maybe…) effect the changes necessary to get candidates (Party not relevant but Repubs are most likely) who Will hold their ground and not just become part of the machine? I’ve worked at that from a lot of angles over the past, all with no success. The “what” that needs to happen is easy. It’s the “how” that’s been problematic.
….Geoffrey has also given me something to consider… And I will do that.
….And Thank You for the Kling link. It’s been Ages since I saw his name! Thoughtful and interesting discussions there.
William sends…
Here’s more of that “context” from Perdue …
We have an opportunity to do something that maybe we lost in the last administration between [House Speaker Nancy] Pelosi and Trump,” Perdue said. “That was just a bridge too far to think that we were going to get them to negotiate. But here we have Biden and McConnell, who are ex-colleagues in the Senate, who are known negotiators, who, if Biden can get away from this extreme part of his party, he might make some deals.“
https://redstate.com/streiff/2020/12/05/georgia-david-perdue-trying-to-lose-n289850
I am not saying not to vote for him, but I am saying just expect him and many other Republicans in Congress not be much of an opposition.
TexasDude:
No, that’s not more of the context. That’s the same quote that was posted yesterday in the video from the Gateway Pundit link. I want the paragraph before and after that, and all the other paragraphs, which we don’t have.
For example of a little bit of context, I posted this in my comment on the subject above, describing other parts of what Perdue said at the same time:
So, what kind of deals was Perdue talking about? And on what topics? Not spending, or judges. Until I hear more than a paragraph of direct quotes, I can’t tell what he was saying and I don’t trust quotes taken out of context, ever.
Right now, Trump is holding a rally in Georgia where he boosted Perdue and Loeffler in no uncertain terms, and they supported him in no uncertain terms. He criticized the “don’t vote” message in no uncertain terms, also.
packing the court is the thing i worry about the most at this point, negotiating or not this is a nonnegotiable issue for Mitch and he will never give an inch to such nonsense but it could happen if we get a democrat majority senate so there is that.
Rcat:
A belated “well said” for your post @ 12:02 PM on December 5. Your scenario is spot-on.
The GOPe is corrupt and mostly useless. The other party is corrupt and totalitarian, and I mean that literally. Perhaps not in the Gulags-and-watchtowers sense (although it may come to that), but certainly in the high-tech surveillance, high-tech censorship, and “social credit system” sense.
Given a choice between those two lousy alternatives, I’ll go with corrupt and useless every time. In fact, I just did last month, in my state’s senate election. The Republican is, by all indications, an ignoramus with ethics issues. The Democrat is actually a decent guy, the kind of conservative Democrat I might have voted for 20-25 years ago. I voted without hesitation for the ethically challenged ignoramus. Why? Because he has two overriding virtues: he’s not a professional politician, and he’ll be a reliable vote against the DNC. Our other senator is an 86-year-old swamp creature and porkmeister par excellence who has been in D.C. since 1979. Forty-one years. In other words, a typical GOPer.
The Georgia run-off is not about sending a petulant message to the GOPe and our fellow citizens. That’s pointless. It’s about buying time to organize in defense of the America we knew and still love. This is gut-check time. To quote the late Sean Connery: What are you prepared to do?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAQlai6TaT0
If Parker were still posting here, he’d make the same point. Voting for unsatisfactory Republicans in Georgia in a possibly rigged election should be an easy call. If we are very, very lucky, we may not be forced to make much harder ones.
DNW:
“Now, things have changed in the last couple decades for the worse in the North and possibly for the better in the South…”
They have. The South has emerged as a major manufacturing center in the past two decades. Alabama alone has at least three automobile factories (Hyundai Motor Manufacturing in Montgomery, Mercedes-Benz U.S. in Vance, and Mazda Toyota Manufacturing USA in Huntsville, plus numerous suppliers for the Kia Motors plant in West Point, Georgia, just over the state line), shipbuilding (Austal USA in Mobile), steel (ThyssenKrupp and Outokumpu in Mobile), aerospace (Airbus/Bombardier in Mobile, the NASA Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville), and military bases and facilities (Redstone Arsenal in Huntsville, Maxwell AFB in Montgomery, the Army Aviation Center at Fort Rucker in Daleville, and the heavy-equipment machine shops attached to the Anniston Army Depot). Remington Arms moved its AR-15 and 1911-pattern handgun production lines from Ilion, New York to Huntsville in 2014. The fate of those facilities is uncertain in the wake of Remington’s bankruptcy and the selling off of its divisions earlier this year, but they could be reactivated and expanded if needed. My university has a center for additive manufacturing research and is producing parts for NASA. Finally, Alabama produces abundant hydroelectric and nuclear power through the TVA, including the second most powerful nuclear power plant in the country at Browns Ferry on the Tennessee River in north Alabama.
Alabama is not unique. The South is now home to a large part of the country’s manufacturing base (including the automotive industry), while the northeast and the old rustbelt have been hollowed out. I think you would find a very different industrial landscape here today. What that means for this thread is that the region’s strategic importance has grown, as has its capacity to supply a possible red-state coalition with energy, technology, materiel, and access to shipping ports. I invite you to draw your own conclusions.
And now a hit from our “All-Seventies Weekend,” Gerry Rafferty and Stealers Wheel singing “Stuck in the Middle with You”:
______________________________________
Well, I don’t know why I came here tonight
I got the feeling that something ain’t right
I’m so scared in case I fall off my chair
And I’m wondering how I’ll get down the stairs
Clowns to the left of me
[Idiots on] the right
Here I am
Stuck in the middle with you
–Stealers Wheel, “Stuck In The Middle With You”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8StG4fFWHqg
______________________________________
Maybe that should be “Fascists to the left of me”… And here we are!
@ Hubert,
Ill take a look at some of the facilities you have mentioned. Things may have changed not only in the last 20 years, but tbe last 5.
What I was, and still would be at pains to emphasize is the difference between assembly facilities with a tool crib and a machine maintenance shop off in a side bay, or even a production facility per se, and the tool making and engineering culture in-depth, which designs and make the tools, dies, jigs, and fixtures, along with the machinery itself that is/are set up to manfacture the parts to be assembled.
The same of course goes for the electronics and IT industries.
You are correct that there are some famous prototype shops in nuclear or defense related facilities. And like the Tredegar Ironworks of old, there are as I saw for myself in Charlotte and other places, production and heavy duty maintenance and repair facilities for rolling stock, oil field equipment and no doubt ship building and the rest.
But in my opinion, you are most on target when you refer to consumer or dual use goods companies like Remington, which, I presume, was able to entice at least some of the engineering and tool design staff to relocate; making it a complete company, not just a shell. Firearms of course can be manfactured on CNC machinery nowadays thus negating much of the old jig and fixture setups. I think Henry and several defence suppliers do that almost exclusively.
But assembly plants are just, ( well, not “just”, exactly) semiautomated or automated transfer lines on a covered concrete slab, staffed by machine minders, trouble shooters and supervisors. Almost none of the employees need know much of anything except what to do at their station. Hand them a set of blue prints and place them in front of a Bridgeport milling machine and they would be helpless.
It was the layers of local and native talent in all phases of design and build, “the talent pool” or bench that had been built up for generations by the Ford Trade School, or the GM Institute that made the SE Michigan area the manufacturing powerhouse it once was …[ before it became viewed as spoils for social redistribution by unions and the Democrat party: a golden goose to be flayed and enjoyed while it lasted]
Much the same went for the major concentrations of machine tool builders.
You could have wiped out 70% of the mass, and one auto company and its suppliers alone would have served as the basis for a rebound.
Now, obviously, with the introduction of CNC there is much less need for many thousands of master machinists. But it seems to me that one still needs a critical mass in design and production to produce a self sustaining economic reaction
A giant NSK bearing production facility in a former cow pasture, and forty others like it, do not constitute a self sustaining industrial base.
What I do not know if now exists, and what was not there 25 years ago despite the assembly and production transplant operations, was that self-sustaining manufacturing “culture mass”.
I have lived in the South; and despite the feelings of near vertigo I experienced on seeing how shallow, and non organic was much of the industrial capacity of the South at that time, I would have been hard pressed myself as a native of the place to give up the natural beauty and pace and satisfactions of traditional Southern life, for the shop floor.
It will make an interesting topic of investigation.
“Just give up because the desk is stacked.”
I have briefly hesitated to put up [ possibly for the second time] what I see as an inspiring counter example message for obvious reasons: a possible, perhaps deliberate misconstrual of the analogy. It is a video link to the 2017 women’s 3000 meter steeple chase championship.
But I think it is incredibly apt in some ways, particularly taking into account Emma Coburn’s reaction in another video to the information that Ruth Jebet had been found to have been doping: “Well, ‘Duh!!!'”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4dCk4UYZEU
DNW:
Are there a lot of people left anywhere in the States with that kind of pre-CNC tool- and machine-designing experience? I read an article years ago about how the generation of skilled tool designers and machinists that was trained during and after WWII has passed from the scene and not been replaced. I’m guessing you’d have to go to India, Turkey, or Eastern Europe to find such people today. Or Germany, Austria, and Switzerland.
If you ever have the chance after COVID, visit the Springfield Armory National Historic Site in Springfield, Massachusetts. There’s an exhibit there on John Cantius Garand, the legendary firearms designer and inventor of the M1 rifle. Garand, a French-Canadian immigrant who had a ninth-grade education, designed all of the machines used to manufacture the parts for the M1, down to the woodworking machine that shaped the stocks. Garand was a one-off genius, but the Connecticut River Valley and surrounding areas used to be home to other firearms factories and a community of inventors, tinkerers, and skilled machinists. I met some of those guys when I worked at a now-defunct factory in central Massachusetts in the early 1980s. They’re all gone now, along with the culture that produced and supported them. I doubt we could make the things they made.
I go target shooting with a retired gunsmith where I live now. He still has a machine shop and uses an old Bridgeport vertical mill. I know he could work from a blueprint.
P.S. Thanks for the Emma Coburn video. Great stuff. Inspiring.
Hubert on December 5, 2020 at 2:10 pm said:
I prophesied and warned humanity in 2007 and after, that Civil War 2 was inevitable and that they needed to start killing Leftists for treason.
What did you think the reaction amongst the regulars here and elsewhere were? Hehe. Just imagine.
Now they are repeating Ymarsakar talking points, as if they know something. They don’t. Too late. There’s no point asking them about Leftist strategy. They don’t know. I do, but they don’t.
om on December 5, 2020 at 12:23 pm said:
Yammer has it all under control so all can rest easy, or not. He and William will slay those windmills!
But somehow Yammer is being repressed again, maybe little “q” will come to his aid?
Yammer on!
This might seem strange to readers here because the reply Om is responding to ,was deleted by Neo.
It was me, again, calling her out on her selective enforcement of her “rules” which as a Son of God, I have refused to sustain.
When I tell om or others to stop attacking people using terms like narcissism, Neo deletes me. But leaves the actual personal attack comments on, for whatever reason she justifies to herself. Disinterest mostly. It’s a kind of arbitrary enforcement, as the justification she uses to delete my comments is that “I am insulting people”. It’s a perverted world in which calling out against personal attacks like the ones William has noticed, qualifies as justification for suppression, but that’s mind control for you. Isn’t that right.
om on December 5, 2020 at 12:57 am said:
William ignores all the points Geoffrey Britain makes and posts a troll querry “What, is the difference? None, because greed.”
Seems to be a leftist troll or just a useless idiot.
See, william, still there.
neo on December 5, 2020 at 1:41 am said:
William:
Not William the invincible, but William the inconvincible.
Calling people names is fun!
Isn’t that right.
It’s a particular personal and soul flaw on Neo’s part that she doesn’t know what she is doing, due to the mind hijacking. She has a minor personal bias and suddenly lets the regular crowd here go whole hog against William, but only suppresses Ymar when I point out there’s a lack of clothing problem there.
If you knew what was good for your nation and your soul line, Neo, you wouldn’t be deceived into doing all the things you unknowingly and knowingly do. But the person that is going to take the consequences when your body expires… is you. Not your hijackers, but you. Realize only that, if nothing else.
Yammering is being repressed and rails about the unfairness of the world. Unique and profound, eh?
Yammer calls for the death of others and has a critique of Nero’s soul. Sad, he might look to “q” for some help about the state of souls, or to more reliable sources.
Here’s another dose of reality: most people don’t want to be politicians and most people can’t hack it as politicians. It takes a certain kind of person, ordinarily: ambitious and narcissistic. It also takes money, and with money usually comes favoring the sources of that money. Politicians also tend to become more corrupt as they get more entrenched in office, more beholden to special interest groups. This is part and parcel of politics, and nothing you do is going to change it.
hah. I laugh at those human limitations. If that’s the world you want to be in for another 26k years, Neo, that’s up to.
Lightning can join a time where politicians are actually servants of the people and not their masters.
Ymarsakar:
You are becoming a troll. I don’t want to ban you, but if you continue in this vein (your comment at 8:34 AM, for example) that probably will happen.
“Certainly the game is rigged. Don’t let that stop you; if you don’t bet you can’t win.”
— Lazarus Long
Ymarsakar,
What exactly is it you are trying to accomplish here with these repeated and cryptic forays into occult metaphysics?
Maybe if you have some theosophical convictions or inspirations or dogmas which you think can be brought to bear on our current political crisis, you could at least be plainspoken as to their origins, and stop being so allusive.
You might as well come clean, since going on with these snide, accusatory, esoteric, yet deliberately coy indictments, is going to get you kicked off anyway.
I don’t think anyone here has the slightest idea of what framework you are working out of. It sounds cobbled together out of fragments of Aquarian Golden Age Earth Alignment ideas, Mormonism, and Madame Blavatsky.
If you have critical information to share why not link to your web site instead of being so cryptic? If you don’t have a website you own or are affiliated with, then what about your blog?
I have recently gone back looking at posts made 4 years ago and even further back; to a time well before I ever visited this site. And back then, your comments, from what I saw of them, were usually clear, germane, and levelheaded.
It seems a shame that that same man would now find himself locked out of the comment section of a blog he must have been frequenting for nearly a decade, merely because he could not locate and explain his accumulating esoteric fascinations and prophesies in their proper venue.