The Old Guard GOP is trying to take the party back
I’ve noticed this effort, too:
The radical Never-Trump people have been making noise for several weeks about wanting to return the party to the way it used to be, whatever that means. They are operating under the delusion that a lot of Republicans are waiting around to welcome them back with open arms.
Good luck with that.
Republicans who love Trump’s transformation need to be very vigilant right now. The Never-Trumpers may not be well-liked by mainstream American members of the GOP, but they are still well connected to some old money. If we drop our guard amid all of the pandemic and election chaos, these back-stabbers could make a successful grab at some more power.
The Democrats and the media will be giving these malcontents a lot of publicity and support too.
I think that going back in that direction would be an enormous mistake, because most people on the right have turned their backs on that wing of the party. Fortunately, the other wing – the fighting wing – has been growing, and there are increasing numbers of choices there.
This is indeed very discouraging; the very worst elements of the GOP (swamp-creatures beholden to their donors, spineless members of the establishment who simply want to get along for personal benefit and enrichment, i.e. members of the “uniparty”), not to mention the so-called “conservatives” of The National Review, all seem very content to abandon any semblance of a fight over the integrity of this moribund republic’s electoral process by ignoring all the evidence thus far made available of this election’s having been stolen from the voters by the very same elements which have been attempting, during four long years but hitherto without success, to overthrow the legitimate winner of 2016. Unfortunately, time is rapidly running out for the formidable Sidney’s kraken to vanquish all the malefactors.
Ben Sasse of Nebraska sickens me. He’s from Fremont which is a county seat town about 40 miles west of Omaha. But he’s an Ivy Leaguer all the way. He’s totally out of touch with average Nebraskans. Too bad he really didn’t have a strong primary challenge.
Trump votes in NE 554, 621 or 58%
Sasse votes in NE 581,255 or 67%.
Trump rubs some NE people the wrong way. Many women don’t like him. Sasse didn’t really have a Dem opponent.
Again, there is no popular strand of ‘NeverTrump’ sentiment. None. Trump’s observed approval ratings among Republicans have been north of 90% and in the same range as those of Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon. There isn’t much of a strand among elected officials. Messrs. McCain, Flake, Corker, Romney, Snyder, Amash, Ryan, Hogan, and Sasse have each been alienated from Trump for idiosyncratic reasons. Most of these people have left public office. Of those who haven’t, Romney is despised by his state’s Republicans and is as vulnerable to a primary challenge as any member of Congress. Hogan prospers by playing to Democrats, among whom he has a higher approval rating than he has among Republicans; I don’t think that’s salable outside a few jurisdictions like Maryland and Rhode Island.
The NeverTrump strand has consisted of opinion journalists, political consultants, and flotsam and jetsam like the twit who worked for Kirstjen Nielsen. These people are inconsequential.
He’s totally out of touch with average Nebraskans. Too bad he really didn’t have a strong primary challenge.
He may be, but they’re not dissatisfied enough to bounce him out of office. (The man has his talents and virtues, I suppose, but he does come off as a self-centered motormouth).
I would say categorically that the Old Guard’s train has left the station, except for two factors. Money and organization; but, I don’t know how to predict how these factors will play. Money may be the lesser of the two, because people may not be willing to invest in them now. Organization may also be problematic since Trump’s favorite, Ronna McDaniel, seems secure at the RNC for awhile.
Unless I am overlooking someone, another factor working against the establishment is that they are an aging, or at least stale, group.
In the past, disaffected Republican voters had little choice but to take whatever the GOP offered. Not so now.
.
I agree with you Neo that the number of choices is growing. I expect there to be a battle within before the next election. Several attractive alternatives come readily to mind.. Where does Mike Pence fit? In the past I would have put him with the establishment. Now, I don’t know. It is possible that he could be a bridge across the chasm as a proponent of Trump’s successful initiatives without Trump’s alienating personality. Then, there are attractive “Young(er) Turks” like Nikki Haley, Rubio, and even a calmer Cruz. I am sure the list will grow.
This may be the best of all times to fight it out, since I believe the Democrats are setting themselves up for an internal blood bath.
not to mention the so-called “conservatives” of The National Review,
Has anyone seen up-to-date circulation figures on NR?
There are individual authors at NR who are worthwhile whom I’m hoping will transfer to The American Spectator or PJ Media. The publication’s brand isn’t worth anything anymore and it’s dragging down their better contributors.
NB, this has been a long time in coming. As the years have worn on, their better contributors have died, retired, and gone on to other pursuits. They replace them with insipid characters like Daniel Foster and Jason Lee Steorts. I think you’d have to go back about 17 years to locate someone they’ve managed to recruit who is (1) engaging to read and (2) not problematic for some other reason. Charles CW Cooke might be an exception to that rule; he’s the only one.
Powerful support for the President from Michael Walsh – “for the Republic”:
https://www.theepochtimes.com/president-trump-explain-to-the-american-people-the-survival-of-the-republic-is-at-stake_3589556.html?utm_source=partner
H/T Ron Coleman twitter feed.
The efforts to get Trump out of the way started a long time ago – probably they never stopped. The legal battles to safeguard against absentee voter fraud should have begun last summer to set the stage properly before the counting started. I bet the seasoned pols all knew this; but it looks like they decided to stay quiet rather than suggest support preemptively. The gambit now, during election contests, is simply to fold arms, fade back, and watch.
Now Trump’s team is jumping through their ass fighting battles that should be handled by the bench. Important battles, lots of them – Signature Match arguments in all the key states, for instance – but the “A” Team should be reserving their focus for the Supreme Court confrontations that are coming.
The Republican Party hasn’t changed, the party of self-interested good losers with skin-deep principles who love the lifestyle. They can see that Trump is ready to miss a payment – and they want to get their mitts on that great ‘new car’ smell in the modern Republican Party. If they play their cards right, they can get it well under market value – they’ll just pick up the payments. They’ll market it as the New GOP, hitting the same Trump donor lists and demographic groups looking to score big by mouthing the words of the message without having to mention that dreaded name. They may be in for a surprise.
Just remember, the Supreme Court could have stepped in already. Before Barret, polite deferral to get involved. After Barret: Crickets, so far. Looks like they’re a little…luke warm..on the subject of election irregularities – at least where Trump is concerned?
Take the party back from what or who? One guy who just lost the election? The Republican party belongs to no one person. Certainty not one who demands loyalty to stroke his ego.
What gets me is that FOX News, National Review and other outlets that are undoubtedly conservative are supposed to be loyal. Why? If CNN and the MSM are supposed to do their job and not be partisan then why the heck are conservative media expected to be partisan? Tucker Carlson last week dared to ask to see evidence from Sydney Powell and he suddenly was considered a traitor.
“most people on the right have turned their backs on that wing of the party”
Yes, and I remember how the Reagan Dems packed up and left the Party after Bush starting running things.
If a RINO is nominated, this time it will be me voting (probably) GOP down-ballot but 3rd party or empty at the top. Like those Reagan Dems in the 90s. Sorry. I’ve seen good government and I want more of it. The old BS isn’t gonna do it for me anymore.
Why are we still talking about “never Trumpers”? Trump’s gone now. Time to choose our next candidate.
Our next candidate can and must definitely be a fighter. Just make him less of a self-destructive clown.
Montage: “If CNN and the MSM are supposed to do their job and not be partisan then why the heck are conservative media expected to be partisan?…Tucker Carlson last week dared to ask to see evidence from Sydney Powell and he suddenly was considered a traitor.”
Thank you thank you, thank you. This was the point I was trying to make previously.
Aggie:
Are you sure they didn’t try prior to the election? There were several cases involving PA, for example, that went all the way to SCOTUS, which decided to let the lower (Democrat) PA court’s ruling stand. There most definitely were challenges in other states as well.
See this article from August about various challenges in which the RNC was involved. New Jersey was the only specifically mentioned (about ballot harvesting), but the article suggests there were others. This was a GOP challenge to mail-in voting expansion in Illinois. This was a challenge in Houston. There was also one in California, one in Nevada, another in North Carolina, one in Michigan, and even in Montana. That’s by no means an exhaustive list.
I don’t know the disposition of all the cases, but I also recall reading about some the GOP won and of course some that they lost. For an idea of the volume of cases brought by the GOP, see this article published on September 30. An excerpt:
It’s hard to keep up with all the news. But if you don’t hear about something it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. I have my quarrels with the Republican “establishment” and certainly with the NeverTrumpers, but in this case I believe your criticism is misplaced. They tried quite hard, actually, and when they were stopped it was by the courts. COVID provided the perfect cover for the Democrats, apparently.
“…gone now…”
Really?
To be sure, some people would dearly like this to be the case.
Harry and Montage:
You are confusing opinion journalism with news journalism. The MSM merged the two quite some time ago, slanting their news coverage to the left, and leaving out anything that would reflect poorly on the left. Fox has not merged them, and that’s a difference.
I don’t think most people on the right are suggesting that Fox should favor the right in its news coverage, just in its opinion journalism (that’s Carlson, Hannity, and Ingraham, for example). And it still does. Until recently, Fox’s news coverage really did come down pretty much in the middle – which meant it was different from CNN and MSNBC as well as network news, all of which have had a left and pro-Democrat slant for many many years, while masquerading as objective.
However, the complaint is that recently Fox has joined them in having a pro-Democrat slant to its news coverage – perhaps not to the extent of CNN and MSNBC and the networks, but a slant nonetheless.
And although some people on the right considered Carlson a traitor when he attacked Powell, plenty defended Carlson and even agreed with him.
Just giving you the reality Barry, barring the appearance of the kraken, of course.
Any day now, Im sure.
Neo: Just remarking on how Crlson, a staunch conservative, has suddenly become a bad guy for questioning a narrative. We are supposed to be fighting false narratives, not promoting them.
“We are supposed to be fighting false narratives.”
“Trump’s gone now.”
Curious.
Well, some are a bit more patient…
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/propaganda-election-fraud-death-journalism
File under: “Patience NOW!!”
Reminder:
“59 counties in GA rejected 0 mail in ballots. Not 0% rounded to the nearest decimal.”
https://twitter.com/SelimSeesYou/status/1330912283443290115
H/T Sean Davis twitter feed.
+ this:
https://www.theepochtimes.com/conservative-activist-on-georgias-second-recount-the-most-important-part-is-matching-signatures_3590593.html
Harry:
Trump is not gone – he’s still president. I think he will not remain president past inauguration day 2020, but he is president now. I also think he will remain a force with which to reckon.
As far as NeverTrumpers go, I believe they are a group which has revealed itself as hypocrites in their preference for leftist Democrats over Trump, and their reasons for it are very shallow. “NeverTrumpers” is also a designation that I think describes a certain type of supposed conservative and isn’t really about Trump at all; the designation transcends Trump. If there’s a better way to describe them, perhaps it will emerge over time, but I haven’t found it yet.
I’d love to see a fighter who doesn’t put people off as much as Trump. I wonder, however, whether such an amalgam can exist in the real world. The left will tear apart any Republican, including very mild-mannered Romney when he was the 2012 candidate. Cruz was a candidate I liked in 2016, but he somehow doesn’t appeal to enough people, or at least didn’t back then. We can argue and argue about whether he would have won in 2016 had he been the nominee (I really don’t know), but it’s by no means clear that he could have appealed to the rust belt in the way Trump did.
I can think of quite a few potential candidates from the GOP that I like, but I don’t know whether any would win in 2024 and I know that all would be trashed by the MSM, perhaps effectively. If they could do it to Romney they could do it to anyone.
And that whole discussion is without even taking into account voter fraud possibilities for 2024, which could destroy any GOP candidate.
The quote (below) from the first link may explain what seems to be conflicting information coming out of Michigan:
“Trump Lawyer: Michigan Legislature Agrees to Hold Election Review Hearings”
https://www.theepochtimes.com/trump-lawyer-michigan-legislature-agrees-to-hold-election-review-hearings_3590583.html
followed an hour later by:
“Michigan Board Votes to Certify Election Results After GOP Calls for Delay”
https://www.theepochtimes.com/michigan-board-votes-to-certify-election-results-after-gop-calls-for-delay_3590669.html
Key graf from the first link above:
‘ Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson, a Democrat who is Michigan’s top elections official, said an audit can’t be completed before the certification is handed down by the board as “election officials do not have legal access to the documents needed to complete audits until the certification.” ‘
https://www.theepochtimes.com/trump-lawyer-michigan-legislature-agrees-to-hold-election-review-hearings_3590583.html
(I hope she’s not spinning some tall tales….)
Lest we forget, etc, etc….some blasts from the (long and distant?!) past:
https://www.theepochtimes.com/lawmakers-experts-warned-of-election-vulnerabilities-years-ago_3584345.html
(But then “The past is—clearly—a DIFFERENT country”….(with apologies))
Harry:
“Crison”? I’m going to assume you mean “Carlson.”
I already answered that. A lot of people defended Carlson and/or agreed with him. I did plenty of reading on conservative sites around the blogosphere, and that’s what I saw.
Carlson, who is one of the few opinion TV personalities that I watch now and then, is a conservative but a somewhat eccentric and idiosyncratic one, by the way. I have found myself disagreeing with him many times – although I’ve certainly never called him “traitor” or anything remotely like it. Much of my disagreement has to do with his views on foreign policy, but it’s not limited to that.
Just to take a single example that I happen to remember: Carlson’s condemnation of Trump’s Soleimani killing.
Carlson has always prided himself on sometimes disagreeing with the usual POV on the right, so that’s nothing new.
Neo: “Trump is not gone – he’s still president.”
Did you think I meant literally Neo? I know you know thats nit what I meant.
Trump could absolutely still be a force in the world up until Biden comes in and reverses whatever good Trump has done if he has the power to do that.
For our purposes here, Trump is gone and we have to move on.
We’ve already been back and forth on this one. Of course the media is going to savage whatever candidate we pro-offer. Thats a given. That our candidate is going to necessarily be off-putting to the dedicated left is also a given, (Im looking for someone less off-putting in a general sense). so lets factor those two points away as universal constants that we no longer need to discuss. They are all ready baked in.
I have no idea who in the world could ever fit as a perfect ideal Republican candidate, just that when Trump threw his hat in the ring, I knew he wasnt the right guy, that he was a clown that would make us look bad. Although he honestly did a way better job than I thought he would, lets face it: His personality helped the media immensely.
We need to choose a guy because he’s a stand up guy, not because he rubs people we dont like the wrong way. We need people who can do Trump things in a non-Trumpian style; one where people can better ignore the media, not feed them their headlines. We need guys who are going to get reelected so that their policies arent nullified by the next automaton the left chooses over Bernie Sanders.
All Im saying is that we avoid choosing another populist clown next time. If we could just manage that much, I think we’d be better off.
“My perception is that there were always three different types of cases to bring.
First… whether it was legal to have a state supreme court change the rules passed by a state legislature”
On the face of it that’s illegal and demonstrates a basic unfitness for the office those ‘judges’ hold. That the state legislature fails to impeach and hold them accountable for that breach of the public trust makes the legislature complicit in that judicial malfeasance.
Secondly “the type of case that alleges that all sorts of voting irregularities occurred during the counting of the votes in the large Democratic cities (such as Philadelphia and Detroit) in certain swing states.”
Multiple eye witnesses whose claims are attested to with affidavits submitted under penalty of perjury renders those ‘counts’ invalid.
Thirdly, “the claims by attorney Sidney Powell that the Dominion voting machines were programmed to tally votes in a way that favored Biden.”
Mathmatically impossible tallies with up to 100,000 votes for Biden with no votes for Trump. Same ballots with no downvotes. Overwhelming victory for Republicans in the House. Dominion software easily corrupted. All of this gives great credibility to Powell’s claims.
And Victor Hanson with the sober rundown: a message that in spite of everything is one of hope, though contingent on several big “ifs”.
May they come to pass…
https://amgreatness.com/2020/11/22/a-time-of-chaos-upon-chaos-atop-chaos/
Well, Montage let’s try this. At this point, like it or not, this is what in some circles is known as a “zero sum game”. You effectively choose sides whether through action or inaction.. CNN, MSNBC, NYT, WP, and the rest are partisan. If the people who tout themselves as Conservative voices do not support Trump at this point, they will be seen by a large number of people as complicit in turning the Executive Branch over to Biden–and who knows who–because of a corrupted election without a fight.
American memories are notoriously short; and some people seem to count on that. I am confident, however, that from now through the next election cycle people will frequently be reminded of those who nudged Trump out, or who sat on their “laurels” while the Presidency was turned over to the Left. As a minimum the Trump loyalist segment of the 70 million votes he garnered will not forget. The GOP will want their votes, and the likes of NR and Fox will want their business.
Now, let’s see how many Never Trumpers and establishment icons get involved in Georgia. If they remain aloof and the Democrats take the Senate they are playing with fire for certain.
Harry:
“Trump is gone” was a deliberately hyperbolic statement, and I was pointing out two things: that in the technical sense he’s still president (and still functioning as such, by the way), and that even as a political force he’s not gone. It remains to be seen whether he’ll fade away after leaving office (if indeed he does leave office in January, and I’m in agreement with you that it’s highly likely he will). His supporters consist of a huge portion of the Republican Party and that cannot be ignored. Whether they will be willing to shift allegiance in 2024, and whether he wants to run then or will be able to run then (if the Democrats don’t succeed in throwing him in prison), all remain to be seen.
So no, I don’t think he’s “gone” in either sense.
That said, I agree with you that we need to look ahead to a future where he’s not president and is not running for president. The last sentence of my post – “Fortunately, the other wing – the fighting wing – has been growing, and there are increasing numbers of choices there” indicates as much.
Speculation as to a future successor for Trump is whistling past the graveyard. If Biden’s puppet masters manage to steal this election, then the American experiment in representative democracy is effectively over.
Short of another Civil War followed by a Article V Convention which effectively addresses the left’s machinations, no Constitutional loyalist will ever be elected to the presidency again. Nor will a Republican majority ever be elected to either the House or Senate again. The left now knows how to ‘win’ enough elections to permanently retain power.
Here’s the problem, Harry – Who do you personally know who is willing to have their life destroyed, the lives of their friends and family destroyed? Who do you know who will magically continue to look like Lancelot after every utterance, every move, is misrepresented, taken out of context or simply made up, with the specific goal of making him (or her) look bad? Because that is what is going to happen to ANY candidate who tries to represent the real right – “constitutional loyalist” to quote GB. ANY candidate. You, me, neo, any of us, would be made to look like A) complete morons who dropped out of school after third grade who are B) violent racists, bigots and everything-ists and also C) are ugly and dressed funny by their mom.
Trump’s personality is part and parcel with what it takes to not get steamrolled by this #^@% that is flung, incessantly, 24/7/365 by the far left. I get that Trump is not the knight in shining armor that you or I would’ve liked, but that knight does not exist. Career politicians will not be that person. Non-politicians will generally lack the smooth delivery that the creased-pants set get moist over and 99.99% of normal human beings lack the spine and brass balls to not fold when confronted by what Trump has been subjected to. Spine and brass balls – by necessity – go with personality traits that rub some the wrong way. You know, that whole “get along” thing. That whole “nice guy” thing. Neither of those things goes with spine and brass balls.
If Trump were a corrupt criminal, that would bother me, but thanks to three and a half years of unceasing legal warfare from the left, we now know that Trump must be the cleanest person to run for President in our lifetime. At this point, considering that we’re facing existential issues for the Republic, a lot of us no longer have any #^#^%s to give about personality.
On The Old Guard: Nope, don’t want you back. You had decades. Enough.
Neo, thanks for that. I would only point out, contrast the GOP’s legal efforts with the Democrats’. My impression is that Mark Elias and his team have waged a relentless offensive against the state electoral structures all summer, either filing suit or threatening to, to relax voting standards across the nation using COVID-19 as the pretext. It’s a coherent effort, single-minded, toward making it easier for the electoral system to accept questionable votes. Their efforts seem well-funded and effective enough where often just the threat of suits were apparently sufficient to get the changes they wanted. Contrast this to the GOP – the essence of their work seems to have been rear-guard actions, trying to keep controls in response to the damage done. Not pushes trying to get more rigorous controls in place, like demanding nation-wide Voter ID or that kind of thing. I confess I haven’t made a detailed study of it, though.
Now look at poor old Trump’s team. Does one get the sense there is a well-put-together, well-oiled machine standing stalwart behind him, supported and financed, well-connected, ready to fight battles on multiple fronts, with the GOP machinery firmly standing by to get the message out, harness the power of the party and their supporters? When I watch their news conferences, the feeling I get is they’re up there, all alone. I hear lots about how the GOP made big gains in this election. Not so much about how all these Senators, Representatives, and Governors love Trump, though.
All these folks talking about the obnoxious nature of Trump’s personality are curiously insensitive to the (even worse) abuse heaped on him from others. It’s a very selective form of thin skin – Trump seems to instinctively know exactly where to find it, even on RINOs, who have notoriously impervious hides. Makes one wonder if they’re really reacting to something else, unspoken.
Another good one from Angelo Codevilla here:
https://amgreatness.com/2020/11/20/from-ruling-class-to-oligarchy/
Folks… it’s past time to forget about Republicans and Democrats… or Trump Republicans and Swamp Republicans. Put away these Childish Things. We all were slow to catch on and saw as through our asses darkly. All of us. But in truth they are as relevant to life today as a game of Cowboys and Indians. You played these games when you were a Child.
It’s now time to get face to face with Base Reality and deal with all that that entails.
Trump put together a very amazing coalition of voters in 2016. A coalition that I don’t think anyone had ever figured out before. A coalition that, even if Trump had explained it, I am confident most or all pundits, journalists and pollsters would have said was not possible for winning election. A coalition I am not even sure Trump understood. Look at the very interesting patterns of counties Trump put together across key states.
Reagan was similar in 1980. A different coalition, but similar in that the GOP had not figured it out until Reagan won, and proved it viable.
And the GOP did not understand Reagan’s coalition and it foundered without him. The GOP seemed confused. Folks in Connecticut didn’t know what to do with all these evangelical Baptists with southern accents showing up to conventions. The country club set didn’t didn’t know how to (or want to) rub elbows with working class, joe lunchpail types. Rush Limbaugh kept them as an audience, but the GOP was not able to hold the coalition together as a voting bloc.
I think the same thing will happen with Trump. The GOP doesn’t seem interested in being the party of disenfranchised hourly workers who have lost their jobs to China. It doesn’t like inviting pro-lifers to their cocktail parties, where they drone on and on about abortion statistics. The GOP doesn’t seem interested in stopping their gardners and nannies from crossing the border. Cabernet prices will skyrocket if we don’t get impoverished Mexicans picking those grapes.
Trump is sui generis and I think his coalition will prove to be just as unique.
I assume you’ve all seen Lindsey Graham’s fist bump with Kamala Harris already, https://nypost.com/2020/11/17/lindsey-graham-fist-bumps-kamala-harris-gop-senators-congratulate-her/
This is D.C. folks. This is the swamp. Trump was the metaphorical bull in the china shop and he didn’t come close to draining it. Neither did Reagan.
As I wrote above, I don’t hold out much hope the GOP will form working coalitions that will garner vote majorities, but I do think the folks who have woken up, walked away, etc. are, like neo, changed for good. We will definitely see more Conservative momentum in the gay community, black community, jewish community, Mexicans, Asians… Social media is creating a lot of new, Rush Limbaughs; Candace Owens, Dave Rubin, Brandon Straka, Ben Shapiro, Dr. Jordan Peterson… These people will all continue to grow their audiences.
By the way, I don’t think anyone has understood Trump’s appeal with voters better than Salena Zito. Her writing on the topic since 2016 has been brilliant. She got it even before Trump won.
Why is it a mistake for the GOP to go back to form?
Seriously, they did not want Trump.
Let them be.
They want to be Democrats. Let them be.
So, this is how it rolls in Michigan.
Please note though, that I am not referring to the Democrats. We know they are emotional, and that they will stop at nothing to get what they want from you.
What is it that any Republican seeking to occupy a position of moral responsibility in Michigan should be prepared for from Democrats? Camaraderie? “Hale fellow well met” rivalry? Sportsmanship and honor?
No. But it seems that some people cannot help themselves in seeking responsibilities they are constitutionally (personally) unfitted to fulfill.
Read the stuff these spines-of-steel Republicans are saying about how and why they caved and let the barbarians rampage and defraud:
Well yes of course they will win, because they know you are goddamned moral and physical cowards who can be rolled.
Anyone reading the history of this country knows that men had to be prepared to both receive and to deal out violence in return, in order to retain their freedoms and their rights.
If they took on positions of public responsibility this preparedness became even more important. If threatened, they would arm themselves, gather allies, and maintain their rights as best they could.
Now, our proxies give up and console themselves that others acted “inappropriately” toward them.
Such a race of men not only does not deserve freedom, but is unfit to even be free.
At best, they just play at it while others are willing to allow it.
The moment these people were threatened on Zoom they should have recorded it, cut communications, called the police; and then probably armed themselves.
But you know, that would require deadly seriousness of purpose.
Better to whine that you are being bullied AFTER giving in. Yeah, that victim routine is really gonna work for you.
They don’t own the party, although it might seem like it because many of them inhabit it as they would a social or country club.
But to do so would be like traditionalist Catholics saying, “Well, let the sodomite clerics have the properties, the Vatican, the historical patrimony and archives; let the buggers furnish their nests with the contributions of centuries of the faithful, and turn the Church into a non-governmental social justice lobby; because they are rotten and there is no redeeming them, so what’s the use.
Sounds almost ok, til you stop and thing about it. Because … it isn’t really theirs.
Goes with second post above https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2020/11/23/michigan-republican-canvassers-say-theyve-received-threats/6397841002/
MY INITIAL ANSWER IN CAPITALS.
Oldflyer @ 4:38 – “Several attractive alternatives come readily to mind. Where does Mike Pence fit? In the past I would have put him with the establishment. Now, I don’t know. It is possible that he could be a bridge across the chasm as a proponent of Trump’s successful initiatives without Trump’s alienating personality.” NO HE IS A SUPERB SECOND IN COMMAND WHO CANNOT COMMAND A NATIONAL FOLLOWING. HE WOULD BE A GREAT VP CHOICE IF HE WANTS TO GO THAT ROUTE AGAIN.
“Then, there are attractive “Young(er) Turks” like Nikki Haley, Rubio, and even a calmer Cruz. I am sure the list will grow.” HAILEY AND RUBIO ARE ESTABLISHMENT NOW. THEY HAVE BEEN SUBSUMED BY THE MACHINE.
“This may be the best of all times to fight it out, since I believe the Democrats are setting themselves up for an internal blood bath.” TOTALLY AGREE. THE DEMOCRATS HAVE A CHANGING OF THE GUARD IN THE NEXT ELECTION CYCLE. THEIR LEADERSHIP WILL BE 80+ BY 2022. THE LOWER RUNGS ARE FILLED WITH URBANITES WITH LIMITED APPEAL EVEN IN THE SUBURBS. BUT THEY HAVE ONE ADVANTAGE. THE WILL TO POWER DRIVES THEM AND THEY HAVE NO COMPUNCTION ABOUT CHEATING AND LYING.
Spartacus speaking now. Let’s face it. If Trump does not run again, whoever Trump picks will win as long as it is not a family member. Here in order are my favorite candidates and why.
1) Rick DeSantis – knows how to run a large organization and is not afraid of tacking the bureaucracy. Look at what he did to clean up Broward and Dade Counties. When the Democrats can’t cheat they lose BIG. He also implemented Trump like policies and minorities trust him. He can harness the Trump alliance better than most. His COVID response has been masterful particularly when compared to other power mad governors like mine in MI. (Blah)
2) Josh Hawley – smart and has run a state wide office in Missouri as Attorney General. Has executive experience. He can tackle the entrenched DOJ leftist careerists and win. He would be a great Attorney General in the next Republican administration.
3) Kristi Noem – executive experience and can tap the woman vote in a major way. An Amy Comey Barrett type that it would be hard for the radical Urbanites to rough up without charges of sexism. Coupled with the pro-life representative women it would be a powerful voice against the totalitarian agenda.
4) Tom Cotton – same as above but without executive government experience. We need executive leadership not Senate experience which does nothing to prepare you for the rough and tumble of going to war with the bureaucracy. He is part of but doesn’t chair any major committees.
5) Jim Jordan – he can ignite the coalition like Trump does. Speaks straight and has the “street cred”. Issue again is no major executive experience.
6) Matt Gaetz – articulate and a true America First patriot. Has no major executive experience.
Who I considered but rejected.
Cruz – likeability factor. Would love him on the Supreme Court.
Rubio/Hailey – now part of the Washington machine
Abbot – his handicap is too big a hurdle but then again dementia didn’t hurt Biden. Also he hasn’t gotten much minority community enthusiasm.
Meadows – Doesn’t have the fire in the belly
Pompeo – good credentials but I will be honest. His time at the CIA counts major against him particularly since he was there at the time of Russia Hoax and could have released information that would have blown the Mueller affair to pieces.
Grennell – health scare and the Black and Latino community really doesn’t warm up to gay men. It is a fact. I belong to a multi ethnic church and they are very wary of homosexuals.
Don Trump Jr. – We don’t want another “dynasty”. That is the knock. He has the right instincts. Running for a lower office might help prepare him and get an identity separate from his father.
I will be very interested in your feedback.
By the way, after having said all this, I wish to express my appreciation to and admiration for, I-am-Spartacus.
I was truly impressed by his relating of the activities of Republican monitors on election night.
Many, in fact most, suburbanites are still afraid to even go into Detroit, as it was considered taking your life into your own hands merely to stop for a red light for many years.
Yeah and but, but, but, Jefferson and Greektown and the theaters blah blah blah …
Detroit police would not even ticket Wayne med students for running them, saying, off the record ” We have to stick together; and no it is not safe”.
That may have improved, with new building to show it … but there is still plenty of submerged attitude to be reckoned with if you are in the right place at the right time.
So, a round of applause for Spartacus. Well done.
I didn’t know he was signed on. Weird.
Rufus T Firefly @10 pm – “Trump is sui generis and I think his coalition will prove to be just as unique.”
I disagree. The coalition is made up of American individualism with an emphasis on economic nationalism. The social issues of abortion, gay rights and race grievance aren’t issues that the individualism agenda cares about. The feeling is “leave me alone and I will leave you alone”. A very easy coalition to maintain provided you aren’t subsumed by the internationalists with credentials.
DNW – thank you. Downtown Detroit up and down the Woodward Axis is not bad. But go down Van Dyke, Clark St or Michigan Ave…..sheesh. I have reached a point in my life when I look outside myself and see I need to create a better world for my children and grandchildren. I lived overseas and tell people THIS country is the best place on earth bar none.
When people here rag on the USA I ask them what is the most valued piece of paper in the world……it is a US passport. Do they know of any other piece of paper just as valued? That usually gets inside their OODA loop for a bit. Then I hit them with the failings of other countries and have them try to defend them. It is a fun exercise that I can do because I am a trained historian with a wide breath of experience and knowledge.
Neo: ““Trump is gone” was a deliberately hyperbolic statement,”
In terms of this discussion “Trump is gone” is merely a relevant fact. The election is over. The “Never Trumpers” no longer matter.
Im with you that as much as the country club republicans might wish it so, the good thing I think Trump did accomplish as that there’s no going back to milquetoast. Having said that, Im hoping the next guy the base chooses for my Presidential candidate isnt chosen for me based on how vulgar his tweets are towards people the base doesnt like, thinking thats the way we’re going to win the ideological argument. It isnt and we’ll stop winning elections altogether if thats all we offer in the future.
Aggie:
Each state makes its own voting rules. The GOP can’t push for national anything. That would take a constitutional amendment.
Zaphod,
Thanks, another outstanding Angelo Codevilla article.
Rufus’ link showing Lindsey Graham fist bumping Kamala Harris confirms Codevilla’s analysis of our ruling oligarchy.
So much for Graham’s faux fury when he said, “Boy, y’all want power. God, I hope you never get it.” Harris was one of the most, if not the most demagogic in the Kavenaugh hearings.
They’ve been playing us for fools. Payback is going to be a b*tch.
I am Sparticus,
“If Trump does not run again, whoever Trump picks will win as long as it is not a family member.”
There’s an excellent chance that Trump won’t be around to pick anyone, you actually think they’re planning on letting him live?
No shortage of “crazed, lone wolf gunmen” out there. Who conveniently die shortly after, effectively hamstringing followup investigations.
But if he does manage it, what makes you think that they won’t manufacture enough votes to win every time from now on?
Of your choices I like Cotton, Jordan and Gaetz but again none has a chance in the rigged game that elections will be if Trump doesn’t win in the courts.
And even if Trump wins, absent extreme and decisive actions by Trump in a second term, the dems will simply resume their assault in 2024. And Pence is far too much of a gentleman to win in the street fight brawl ahead.
No this is it, the left has crossed the rubicon.
Aggie (Nov. 23, 9:11) said:
“All these folks talking about the obnoxious nature of Trump’s personality are curiously insensitive to the (even worse) abuse heaped on him from others…. Makes one wonder….”
Indeed, though I would slightly alter it as follows:
“All these folks TAKING PIOUS EXCEPTION to the obnoxious nature of Trump’s personality are curiously insensitive to the profound and grotesque corruption of Trump’s Democratic Party criminal opponents…. Makes one wonder….”
Time for a repost:
https://twitter.com/RonColeman/status/1329817456886620162
The Transition, continued…
“Trump: We will never concede:
Trump denies that the authorization for Biden transition signals concession of presidential election. ‘We are moving full speed ahead.’ ”
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/291861
File under: We will fight “Fundamental Transformation” to the very end.
“The radical Never-Trump people have been making noise for several weeks about wanting to return the party to the way it used to be, whatever that means.”
It means the republicans will once again become sock puppets for the demokrats. It means they will ask “how hi” when the dems tell them to jump.
It means the republicans will become the sex toys of the demokrats.
It means they will sit on their ass, thumb firmly inserted, while the demokrats stomp all over them.
It means Romney and his ilk will bend over big time for the demokrats so he can get into the good graces of the media, believing it will benefit him when he tosses his hat into the next presidential election.
The dems play hardball , cheat, lie, deceive, whatever it takes to prevail, including sending innocent folks off to jail or destroying the lives of their (real or imagined enemies.
And they never break ranks.
The dumbpublicans, well, they show up to a knife and gun fight with water balloons; that is, those republicans that even bother showing up.
Get ready for 4 more years of an Obama presidency with an added extra dose of (the highly experienced business person) AOC and the Brooklyn communist SOB Sanders providing their hate-America-first advice.
Yep, these two losers (both of whom should be deported to Cuba with their entire families) will be helping to shape US policy that will affect all of us.
Putin, the Chinese, the Iranians, the Cubans and Venezuelans and the CPUSA must be pinching themselves repeatedly to confirm they are not dreaming.
Sparticus – ref your list of potential younger GOP candidates in queue:
I agree with most of what you have said. For AG I might select Andy McCarthy and let Hawley run FBI, although I was thinking of Trey Grody for FBI leadership/ clean up, too.
Executive experience is good/ desirable if it also involved moving legislation thru a legislature, so sometimes legislative experience or exposure is also important. No real changes will occur without Congress being fully on board and changing/ repealing New Deal and Great Society, etc., laws (and maybe Dodd-Frank?). EO’s don’t cut it long term although sometimes they can set the stage for successful legislative turn arounds.
Leaving Cruz and Tim Scott, etc. in the legislature is maybe still best, as they gain seniority, etc. And maybe we can find a way to show that the black caucus is part of the problem, not really involved in curing racial animus but actually inflaming it further.
Noem would be a great “heartland” candidate, but might be subject to criticism as having only “small state” experience, in terms of populations, with little major urban issues to address. Perot accused Clinton of this back in 1992. Then again, McCain picked Palin with comparable backgrounds, etc. Noem is probably better than Palin was.
I agree dynasty slots will not play well without a separately generated identity – let’s see how George P. Bush of TX comes onto the national scene without “daddy” help or issues ?? For example, Rand Paul is now not much associated with Ron Paul.
The GOP also needs to get successful black and women candidates into leading positions within the major failed urban centers to help turn them around, and show conservative policies are more successful than progressive ones. Getting successful blacks more exposure will also help reduce the impact and influence of the racialist industry, showing that it has now done its “affirmative action” job and run its course. And I just remembered that KY AG Daniel Cameron was an impressive figure recently, too.
The better news is that as strong or weak as the younger GOP cohort may be, the Democrats have mostly only terrible dictators in their pipeline (although a couple of the failed early 2020 Dem candidates could have “easily” beaten Trump if the Dems had been more centrist/smarter overall.)
No shortage of “crazed, lone wolf gunmen” out there. Who conveniently die shortly after, effectively hamstringing followup investigations.
Who?
Harry at 6:50 Pm said…”All Im saying is that we avoid choosing another populist clown next time. If we could just manage that much, I think we’d be better off.”
A populist clown who had the best economy ever and did more for America than any recent President before him…. I would take 44 more Trumps before another elite politician who gets rich off of bilking us….Read this and weep…..
] https://frankreport.com/2020/04/18/one-hundred-twenty-five-amazing-accomplishments-of-president-donald-j-trump/
The GOPe lost me with its reaction to the Tea Party in the early years of this century. I long ago stopped donating to GOP groups, preferring instead to supporting individual campaigns. GOP leadership is unlikely ever to get me back, and it certainly won’t do so by trying to shove Never-Trumpism down my throat.
Harry is concerned. Harry may even be upset that President Trump hasn’t conceded already. Is Harry getting ready for Mitt 2024? Go Harry!
“The people with the ‘Trump 2024’ signs are fooling themselves. If this year’s farce is allowed to continue, there won’t be an election in 2024. In fact, there wasn’t an election in 2020.” –Peter Miller https://laurencejarvikonline.blogspot.com/2020/11/peter-miller-on-2020-us-election.html
Much of the GOP e are traitors. I’ll take care of them soon as I get done with the Leftist alliance stealing the elections.
Geoffrey Britain on November 24, 2020 at 12:40 am said:
True and not complete at the same time. But you are picking up on what I tried to communicate in 2015, to you and others here.
Things are that dire yes. But that is why I know it is over. The war is over, but the battle is not.
Who has won? Red? Blue?
None of those have won.
God has won, and I am a messenger of the good news, the Gospel, the Victory.
So bury fear,
for fate draws near
and hide the signs of fear.
The bravest souls endure the heart’s remains.
Discard regret,
that in this debt,
a better world is made
that children of a newer day might remember and avoid our fate.
Prepare for battle.
And in the fury of this darkest hour,
we will be your light.
You have asked for our sacrifice and I am God Born.
Without denying, a faith in god I have never known, I hear the angels call my name, for I am God born.
Hold your head up high,
for there is no greater love,
think of the faces of the people you defend.
And promise me they will never see the tears in our eyes,
although we are men with mortal sins, angels never cry.
So bury fear,
for fate draws near,
and hide the signs of pain.
With noble acts,
the bravest souls
endure the heart’s remains.
Discard regret,
that in this debt,
a better world is made.
That children of a newer day might remember
and avoid our fate.
And in the fury of this darkest hour, I will be your light, a lifetime for this destiny, for I am God Born.
In this moment, I will not run, it is my place to stand.
We few shall carry hope within our bloodied hands.
P.S. Modified lyrics of Cruxshadows’ winterborn.
Old Guards elsewhere, too: at Althouse via Instapundit, reports are that Biden staffers are being demoted or let go, replaced by Obama crew.
So, THIS WILL be zero’s Third term as President? Just as most feared by Patriots? Hate America First?
Or: The US as viewed from the U.N. by China? as an Insta wag put it?
https://althouse.blogspot.com/2020/11/the-obama-staffers-are-now-cutting-out.html
Commenter Drago has my thoughts: “so, it was the obamaites that have worked so tirelessly over the last 6 years to weaponize the govt against domestic political enemies and now the Bidenites are surprised and miffed to find out that these lefties actually meant every word they’ve said for over a decade?”
Biden staffers are the useful idiots of the campaign and are only learning it now. Because, hey, who else waged the permanent coup finally getting fools gold or the Golden Powered Coup the Deep Staters have so long fought the decent and naive MAGA lovers have only fortunately denied them.
https://althouse.blogspot.com/2020/11/the-obama-staffers-are-now-cutting-out.html?showComment=1606250964777#c6732785415826106651
https://twitter.com/davereaboi/status/1331677158901747719?s=21
These people are superlatively unimportant. I merely note that David French has given us another reason why he and his ilk should be told they get no more donations (from anyone but the liberal billionaires currently granting them patronage) and are welcome to leave public life. Memo to AEI, Heritage, and the Ethics and Public Policy Center: if you were well-run, every line employee you have would be a trained policy analyst; if you were one ratchet down from well-run, every publicist you employ would be engaged in promoting the work of your analysts. Since you’re not well run, you’re paying salaries to the likes of Mona Charen.