James Madison knew
I am continually and deeply impressed by the foresight and wisdom of the Founders, in particular James Madison. I doubt students learn much about him anymore, and I doubt that his words would strike home with many of them even if they were to read them, because the level of general discourse has been so dumbed down.
Also, since Madison owned slaves, he no doubt will be marginalized and villainized (and already has been) under the standards of today.
In the meantime, while we still can, let’s look at what he had to say that speaks to our present situation:
There are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.
Wherever the real power in a Government lies, there is the danger of oppression. In our Governments, the real power lies in the majority of the Community, and the invasion of private rights is chiefly to be apprehended, not from the acts of Government contrary to the sense of its constituents, but from acts in which the Government is the mere instrument of the major number of the constituents.
The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, selfappointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny.
Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own governors, must arm themselves with the power knowledge gives. A popular government without popular information or the means of acquiring it, is but a prologue to a farce or a tragedy or perhaps both.
Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government.
Where an excess of power prevails, property of no sort is duly respected. No man is safe in his opinions, his person, his faculties or his possessions.
…[A] pure democracy, by which I mean a society consisting of a small number of citizens, who assemble and administer the government in person, can admit of no cure for the mischiefs of faction. A common passion or interest will, in almost every case, be felt by a majority of the whole; a communication and concert result from the form of government itself; and there is nothing to check the inducements to sacrifice the weaker party or an obnoxious individual. Hence it is that such democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.
Is there no virtue among us? If there be not, we are in a wretched situation. No theoretical checks, no form of government, can render us secure. To suppose that any form of government will secure liberty or happiness without any virtue in the people, is a chimerical idea. If there be sufficient virtue and intelligence in the community, it will be exercised in the selection of these men; so that we do not depend on their virtue, or put confidence in our rulers, but in the people who are to choose them.
But what is government itself, but the greatest of all reflection on human nature?
They were remarkable men, and Madison certainly holds a place of honor among them.
I wonder if Princeton will disassociate from him as a slave owner.
I suppose it would be unacceptable these days to speculate whether the country would be better or worse off if his Liberia project had been more successful in repatriating slaves to Africa.
On another note. I lived for 25 years in the County adjacent to Madison’s home in Orange County. That area of Virginia is so lovely; and I do miss it. Within a radius of no more that 75 miles from Madison’s home at Montpelier, that land produced Washington, Jefferson, Madison, and Monroe, among others. Must have been something in the air. (A vignette. Jefferson’s home at Monticello looked down from the heights on Monroe’s much more modest one almost directly below; a fact that Jefferson allegedly enjoyed reminding his friend.)
Yes, they were remarkable me as Oldflyer states. What is more amazing was there were so many of them during the formation of this republic. Even more amazing than that was though they held ideals, they were also practical men who knew how to street fight and how to compromise. Without those qualities we may now be 50 independent kingdoms. Come to think of it, that may not be such a bad thing since there may be a chance I’d have someplace to escape to as this country goes deeper and deeper into Madison’s tyranny.
When I compare the intellects of the founding fathers with today’s crop of leaders, I sometimes think they were a different species.
I love the third from the last and the second from the last.
A pure democracy, …
Madison seems to be saying that we fundamentally flawed humans will almost always screw up attempts at democratic governance, given enough time. Usually, that amount of time isn’t very long.
My inlaw, now deceased, used to teach poli-sci and history and did his dissertation on the Federalist Papers. One late night after a few bourbons, he explained to me that in his opinion, all this talk we hear about “American exceptionalism” isn’t about the nature of us citizens. Rather, it is a statement about the nature of the Constitution (if we follow it) and its ability to stave off the typical demise of our government in less than 200 years.
______
Is there no virtue among us? …
Madison knew that we would not make it to 300 years or even 200 years, if sleazy behavior became the norm. Heck, I’d claim that even a high level of tolerance of sleaziness at the 5 or 10% level is terminally toxic.
To suppose that any form of government will secure liberty or happiness without any virtue in the people, is a chimerical idea.
I love that word “chimerical.” From Greek mythology, but I think it has a medical definition too. Fraternal twin embryos that merge to become one baby with two different DNA types. Quite rare.
To restate Madison’s point here; you can’t create a rules based system that makes an immoral group of people function as though they were moral.
Gregory Harper:
I’ve thought something very similar.
These are very useful quotes. It’s unfortunate that that Goodreads page doesn’t give the primary source for most of them. A few I recognize from the Federalist Papers, but I’d be interested to chase some of these down in their originals.
I have noticed that our collective commenting volume has dropped off in the last couple of days. I can think of several possible reasons for this. I hope you fellow people are managing to continue with life and taking reasonable care of yourselves.
Oh, that reminds me, I just started making a point of taking a Vitamin D supplement each day, being encouraged thereunto by whispers about these studies out there which suggest a correlation between inadequate Vitamin D levels and an increase in potency of Everybody’s Favorite Pathogen. Since winter is coming on – a Dark Winter, as a certain Authoritative Public Figure has put it recently – and my Vitamin D levels are generally not high anyway, I thought I would take this small step in order to get ready. I was happy to stock up on the caplets! It surprised me that the pharmacy shelf hadn’t been picked clean of them last week.
“I suppose it would be unacceptable these days to speculate whether the country would be better or worse off if his Liberia project had been more successful in repatriating slaves to Africa.” – Oldflyer
My conjecture would be that the US would be better off if they hadn’t done it at all.
Just guessing – because I have never looked it up – those former slaves choosing to go back to Africa (although not to their own ancestral homelands) were probably some of the more adventurous and intelligent — just as with the Europeans who decided to take a gamble on moving to the Colonies.
Taking them out of the gene pool here was not a good plan.
Liberia didn’t have the history or resources to “duplicate” a black US society or government, with predictable results.
We are friends with a family that is serially moving to the US because the situation there is so fraught.
“What is more amazing was there were so many of them during the formation of this republic.” – Les
There had to be, or the Republic would not have been formed.
As I’ve entered the beginning of old age, I too have become ever more impressed with the founders wisdom and astuteness.
Adams pointed out that our Constitution is only fit for a moral and religious people. Clearly, at least half of America is not religious and in addition the majority of that non-religious group’s morality rests upon personal opinion and the popular consensus of the moment.
Madison pointed out that “Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace.”
The left has their deep state, which includes most of the military’s upper echelons. It is no longer arguable as to whether the media is fully enslaved.
Which only leaves “a disarmed populace”.
And that’s why a Harris administration must gut the 2nd amendment.
Though undoubtedly they tell themselves that they’re prepared for armed resistance, once they “cut down all the laws”, they have no grasp of the whirlwind that shall sweep across this nation.
“those former slaves choosing to go back to Africa (although not to their own ancestral homelands) were probably some of the more adventurous and intelligent” AesopFan
Given that they were conquered or abducted and enslaved by other tribes and then sold to European slavers, by what calculus might it be imagined that they were Africa’s “best and brightest”? It wasn’t a ‘voluntary’ trip… rather it was an unimaginably horrible trip to arrival in an utterly foreign culture faced with for most, a short life of brutal labor.
Aesopfan,
My mistake. I thought you were referring to the enslaved brought to the new world. Not those who choose to go back. In that you may well be right. I’ll endeavor to read more carefully in the future.
Geoffrey – I am speaking of people who were not usually the original importees, but their descendants. IOW, America’s “best and brightest” in the subcategory of “freed slaves.”
Being captured in the first place is unlikely to be correlated with intelligence, since it often involves entire villages. One might also argue that those who survived the horrific conditions of slavery might also have more general fitness, which they would pass on genetically, and then you have a subgroup of those surviviors self-selecting for a chance at a new start outside of the US.
It’s a conjecture based on nothing more than general impressions from history and psychology.
Philip Sells — I’ve noticed reduced comment velocity over at Instapundit as well, especially on the open threads.
I think everyone stayed up for 36 hours on Tuesday and hasn’t quite recovered yet.
The Federalist Papers and the Anti-Federalist Papers have been on my mind this week as well. Especially James Madison’s discourse on factionalism. The Democrats have been skilled in honing this very thing over the years and using it successfully to carve up the Republic. In order to have consensus among the many factions within their party, promoting hatred of this President was all it took. The fact that it required monumental lying, false witness, slander and libel was no problem for a number of people deeply ensconced in our government, media and big tech. So here we are, lying and hatred seemingly carrying the day. Virtue appears to be on the ropes.
Folks, it’s not the Federalist Papers, but if you have friends who still don’t get it, perhaps The Parable of Bob might help them out:
https://thezman.com/wordpress/?p=21747
Zaphod,
That was uplifting.
Americans are under ptsd, from the rape and violence. Of course they have not recovered. Even veterans dont operate in continuous battle stress for weeks, months, years, without breaks.
There are no backlines to this war. 4 trump years. No retreat, no surrender. Then they think they are on the precipice of victory and safety, then they get raped and their rapists are telling them it is good for them. Gaslight much.
I have been operating in continuous battle mode since 2007, although i had several r and r breaks.
What is to be done?
Lenin, like Marx, often had the right questions, and true critiques.
a) Trump should keep fighting in the courts.
But what is the goal? A recount?? That means Biden wins – there’s no way of separating legal from illegal votes, once the ballots get intermingled.
We need a new election in the “probably” cheating Swing cities: Philly, Detroit, Milwaukee, Atlanta, Las Vegas, (Phoenix?)
Redo the election with honest monitoring.
b) “Honest legal elections in Cities – redo election there”;
“Stop stealing elections”
“Show the election was honest” << Prove? Show is better, proof is too strong. There are ways to show the election was not honest, but they don't prove it.
"An Honest election looks honest"
We need a consistent message, and a consistent, feasible goal.
A judge can order that an election be redone (for a local election).
https://www.agenda21radio.news/2020/08/21/judge-orders-election-redo-after-nj-democrats-charged-with-voter-fraud/
c) mass demonstrations in favor of "Redo the Election"
Just like an anti-corruption "Color Spring" in foreign countries.
Communication thru??? not-Facebook, not Twitter.
Too bad Trump hadn't prepared Gab or some other conservative friendly big tech platform. Now it's late, but not quite too late.
Now is time for protesting (peacefully, not violently "fighting") in favor of a peaceful redo of election to make it look honest and be honest.
“The Dems who oppose this are happy with stealing the election – they don’t want honest elections.”
We have to think long and hard about what this portends.
How so? Neo has posted about what James Madison knew. But Neo’s [ just as a representative generalization not as an asserted matter of fact] emotional friends don’t care what James Madison knew, nor what kind of republic he envisioned or was founded, populated, fought for, by men like my ancestors and your ancestors.
The question is: can we live together apart? My answer would be yes. Their [ the leftist’s] answer would be “No.” They recognize no limits or boundaries: not geographical, not moral, and not to their appetites.
And the left – and I include the “average Democrat” here too, (because they actually at some level want all this until it redounds on their heads) has no hesitation in using the machinery of the state to coerce,to compel, to confiscate or even kill, in order to realize the “change they dream”. About the only thing they will not do, is argue closely; because such argument will soon become about fundamental values and rights and finally, “anthropology”: and they know that once subject to reason, their arguments fail.
Are these people “Americans” in any meaningful sense? Can there be some claim to recognition on their part to our tolerance, and our solidarity, when they have been bracketing conservatives as Neanderthals slated for elimination by any means necessary, for years now?
What would a conservative hope to conserve by temporizing with such people? Maybe buy a couple more years as you are squeezed to death, in part by your own approving daughters and ex wives?
Maybe begin the real work of setting up alternative systems of exchange and association … supposing they will not turn state power to the task of preventing it? Progressive antennae are always out, as we all know.
So, really, what do you do when a bunch of “gurls” of both sexes, unrestrained by notions of honor, or scrupulous adherence to procedure, create a generalized social victim hysteria, violate all the rules of civility, truth, honor, and law, and after so doing claim to possess the hammer of state power, and begin issuing declarations as to how they plan on using that state power to avenge not statutory crimes, but some emotional “suffering” they claim to have undergone.
Well, they certainly are not leaving us much fucking selection …
Possibly the courts … possibly the states, if there is an executive in even one of them with enough courage or support to defy the Feds’ ultra vires [and some will come if Biden/Harris take office] acts.
Who would have ever imagined that the republic would be killed by your wives and daughters.
But you know, after four or eight years of fundamental legal and population change, an even brighter dawn lies ahead when sensitive true conservatives “inevitably” regain power.
Men like Maqcuck, assured us years ago, that this is so.
So DNW, are you ready to go out an protest? Demonstrate?
Against Fraud?
In favor of honest elections?
If not now … then when?
It might already be “too late”.
“Too bad Trump hadn’t prepared Gab or some other conservative friendly big tech platform. Now it’s late, but not quite too late.
Now is time for protesting (peacefully, not violently “fighting”) in favor of a peaceful redo of election to make it look honest and be honest.” – Tom Grey
“Maybe begin the real work of setting up alternative systems of exchange and association … supposing they will not turn state power to the task of preventing it? Progressive antennae are always out, as we all know.” – DNW
You could try some of the ideas from Sarah Hoyt and her Huns:
https://accordingtohoyt.com/2020/11/06/let-the-joker-go-wild/
Rufus T. Firefly on November 7, 2020 at 10:05 am said:
Zaphod, (on the Parable of Bob)
That was uplifting.
* * *
I thought it was terrifying!