“Disloyal” Jews voting for Democrats
The latest brouhaha over a word Trump used (“disloyalty”) stems from this Trump quote:
Trump made the comments after he was asked about Minnesota Rep. Ilhan Omar’s suggestion that the U.S. might want to reconsider how much it pays Israel in aid after she and Rep. Rashida Tlaib, D-Mich., were barred from entering the country last week.
He again attacked the two Democrats — saying Tlaib had said “horrible things” about Israel and that Omar is “a disaster for Jewish people.” He also baselessly accused Tlaib, an American of Palestinian descent, of violence.
“I can’t even believe that we’re having this conversation. Five years ago, the concept of even talking about this — even three years ago — of cutting off aid to Israel because of two people that hate Israel and hate Jewish people. I can’t believe we’re even having this conversation,” Trump fumed.
“Where has the Democratic Party gone? Where have they gone where they’re defending these two people over the state of Israel? And I think any Jewish people that vote for a Democrat — I think it shows either a total lack of knowledge or great disloyalty, alright?”
The hue and cry and charges of anti-Semitism on Trump’s part are practically Orwellian in nature. So now, saying that Jews who vote for people who want to destroy Israel shows disloyalty to Israel is somehow anti-Semitic and similar to the old charge of dual loyalty among Jews?
That’s twisted “logic,” but it’s par for the course. One can criticize Trump’s remarks—I criticize them, for example, on the grounds that they conjure up the possibility of misinterpretation and give the left ammunition—without calling them anti-Semitic. They are not anti-Semitic.
Logic is not the only thing that’s twisted. For example, see this by NBC News:
[Trump’s] insistence that Jews must be loyal to Israel is widely considered to be an anti-Semitic stereotype, one that says American Jews have a higher allegiance to a country other than the U.S.
Trump’s insistence that Jews be loyal to Israel? A higher allegiance? Where, pray tell, is he insisting that? His remarks were a descriptive statement of fact: Jews who vote for people who want to destroy Israel (the party of Omar and Tlaib) are not loyal to Israel.
Whether they should be loyal to Israel or not is another question entirely. But the old “dual loyalty” accusation is based at least to some extent on a religious truth, which is that Judaism itself dictates a certain loyalty to Israel.
In modern days, that loyalty is not always present, and in Jews who do not live in Israel that loyalty is not placed above loyalty to country. But—although Trump is not insisting on anything, he is simply correct in saying that Jews who vote for a party that includes and fails to specifically condemn and reject Omar and Tlaib and their anti-Israel anti-Semitic politics are being disloyal to Israel and its continued existence.
Trump added this today:
“In my opinion, the Democrats have gone very far away from Israel. I cannot understand how they can do that,” Trump told reporters from the White House South Lawn on Wednesday. “They don’t want to fund Israel. They want to take away foreign aid to Israel. They want to do a lot of bad things to Israel. In my opinion, you vote for a Democrat, you’re being very disloyal to Jewish people and very disloyal to Israel.”
And also this, which I think is very telling:
When asked by a reporter on the White House lawn Wednesday afternoon if his comments were anti-Semitic, Trump dismissed the criticism.
“No, no, no. It’s only in your head. It’s only anti-Semitic in your head,” said Trump, pointing to the reporter.
And he clarified what was already crystal clear from his initial remarks:
In response to a question Wednesday, he clarified that the “disloyalty” he meant was to Israel and fellow Jews.
“If you vote for a Democrat, you’re very, very disloyal to Israel and to the Jewish people,” he said.
As I wrote earlier, I think bringing up the subject of Jewish loyalty at all is problematic. On the other hand, it’s simply true that with Judaism goes a special relationship to Israel—not a higher loyalty necessarily, but one that non-Jewish people don’t share. That loyalty has never before conflicted with American policy, because—and this is also the case—the US has always had a special relationship with Israel (and Jews) as well, beginning with the Founding Fathers (read about it here).
Now one of the two major parties is breaking that special relationship. Actually, it’s not just now—Obama was a trailblazer in that regard, too, although it’s gotten much worse lately. Trump is trying to call attention to that fact, and he’s certainly succeeded in that regard. However, he did it in a way that conjured up in a semantic sense if in no other sense—and the left will make as much of that as they can, in an attempt to hurt Trump—the old charge of dual loyalty.
Perhaps that was purposeful, as well. Perhaps Trump believes that the public knows he is a friend of Israel, and that therefore the charges of anti-Semitism will fall for the most part on deaf ears. Perhaps.
[NOTE: On the Founding Father’s attitude towards the Jews:
The mutual admiration between Israel and the United States is hardly a recent phenomenon.
The profound influence of Jewish tradition on America’s Founding Fathers can be seen in the Constitution of the United States. Such influence should come as no surprise given John Adams’ view expressed in a letter to Thomas Jefferson:
“I will insist that the Hebrews have done more to civilize man than any other nation.”
According to Woodrow Wilson, the ancient Jewish nation provided a model for the American colonists:
Recalling the previous experiences of the colonists in applying the Mosaic Code to the order of their internal life, it is not to be wondered at that the various passages in the Bible that serve to undermine royal authority, stripping the Crown of its cloak of divinity, held up before the pioneer Americans the Hebrew Commonwealth as a model government. In the spirit and essence of our Constitution, the influence of the Hebrew Commonwealth was paramount in that it was not only the highest authority for the principle, “that rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God,” but also because it was in itself a divine precedent for a pure democracy, as distinguished from monarchy, aristocracy or any other form of government.
Jews also contributed directly to the American Revolution. President Calvin Coolidge paid tribute to their role in the War of Independence:
The Jews themselves, of whom a considerable number were already scattered throughout the colonies, were true to the teachings of their prophets. The Jewish faith is predominantly the faith of liberty.]
One would think the 3D playing genius that Trump is, would avoid planting his own rhetorical land-mines, then purposely step on everyone of them.
I guess this is another example of a Biden “truth vs fact” thingee.
And the democrat “truth” is all in their heads and belief and TDS. Do not confuse them with the facts.
“In my opinion, you vote for a Democrat, you’re being very disloyal to Jewish people and you’re being very disloyal to Israel, and only weak people would say anything other than that”
They are his opinion. He even says so: “In my opinion”.
Donald Trump thinks Jews should be loyal to Israel therefore vote Republican. That’s what he is saying.
The organizations that Tlaib and Omar support — Hamas, Hizbullah, Miftah, etc., don’t want to destroy Israel — they generally don’t want to admit it exists. They want to kill Jews, and they readily and openly say so. The Democrats’ support of the Stalinista Squad shows that the Dems have finally moved so far left that they now feel safe in endorsing outright anti-Semitism.
We Republican Jews (and yes, there are a few of us) have been trying to get our Democrat co-religionists to understand that the Left will throw them under the bus at the first opportunity. Well, here comes the bus!
Per the troll, and to alter Mel Brooks (with apologies) ever so slightly: Don’t be schtoopid, be a schmarty, come and join the Tlaib Party!
I can’t see how any Jew worth his/her salt can vote for a party that for the most part openly embraces anti-semitism. And not low grade anti-semitism of “I don’t like Jews” but blood libel, Elders of Zion anti-semitism,
Manju:
Just because you say it’s so doesn’t make it so.
He is describing something, which is that Jews who vote for a Democratic Party that ascribes to the growing anti-Israel and anti-Semitic positions they now hold, and in particular that doesn’t strongly and specifically censure Tlaib and Omar for their anti-Israel and anti-Semitic positions, are being disloyal to Israel.
It may be his opinion, but it’s also a fact.
Obviously he believes they shouldn’t do it, because he believes no one should vote for Democrats. But his statement about their disloyalty to Israel is a simple statement of fact.
IRA, that’s a question we’ve all been asking for a long time here. The answer, from what I can glean, is that most are non-religious, and identify as leftist more than as Jews. It seems to be a requirement of a secular Jew to embrace leftist politics as part of their identity.
Yep, the bus is coming.
As a Jew myself, I’m sometimes frustrated by the tendency of other Jews (particularly Reform Jews, rather than Conservative or Orthodox Jews) to have a higher adherence to left-wing “Liberal” beliefs than to traditional Jewish beliefs. It’s not that they place Jewishness above their loyalty to America; it’s that they sometimes place loyalty to whatever the lefty causes of the time are above either Judaism or America.
Jews more than most ought to know that governmental power can be destructive, and that the more structured the government, the less possible it is to be Jewish. And as the Democrat party becomes more and more closely aligned with the AOC/Omar/Tlaib wing, the Democrat party is becoming more and more anti-Semitic. There’s not much room for traditional Judaism in the Democrat party any more.
Harry:
Funny thing, though, isn’t it, that in general stepping on these landmines hasn’t tended to hurt Trump.
This is my analysis of the “3-D chess” question.
Not according to Donald Trump:
“In my opinion, you vote for a Democrat, you’re being very disloyal to Jewish people and you’re being very disloyal to Israel”Highlights mine.
How it will hurt Neo, will be reflected in the next election cycle, and since Trump cant afford to alienate more people, the less needless idiotic self-inflicted landmine stomping the better. Not that the 3D chess playing genius seems to understand that.
physicsguy:
For some, leftism has replaced Judaism as their religion.
Not all secular Jews are leftist, however. But a great many leftist Jews are secular.
However, not all religious Jews are conservative, either.
In a poll taken in 2013, this was the breakdown. It’s quite interesting, I think. Among Orthodox Jews in the US, 36% were Democrats or lean Democrat and 57% were Republicans or lean Republican. In the political sense, 12% called themselves liberal, 27% called themselves moderate, and 54% called themselves conservative. The poll did not, unfortunately, differentiate between “liberal” and “leftist”—which I believe is an important distinction. My guess is that few of those 12% of Orthodox Jews who identify as liberals are actually leftists.
Conservative Jews (that is not a political designation; it’s a sort of moderate in-between version of Judaism) have a different breakdown entirely. They are 64% Democrat or lean Democrat, 27% Republican or lean Republican. Politically they describe themselves this way: 35% are liberals, 38% are moderates, and 27% are conservatives.
Reform Jews, a group that is by far the least conventionally religious of the lot—and the most numerous—are almost identical in their politics with Jews who are secular and don’t identify with any part of the religion at all. Reform Jews are 77% Democrat or lean Democrat whereas secular Jews are 75% Democrat or lean Democrat. Reform Jews are 17% Republican or lean Republican and secular Jews are 15% Republican or lean Republican. 58% of both groups describe themselves as politically liberal. For politically moderate the figures are 27% for Reform and 26% for secular. The figures are also identical between the two groups for political conservatism: 13%.
Interesting, no?
If you want some percentages, see this:
“Donald Trump thinks Jews should be loyal to Israel therefore vote Republican. That’s what he is saying.” manju
Given the democrat party’s commitment to leftist extremism, it’s not possible to vote democrat without embracing anti-Zionism, which as Dennis Prager points out is opposition to Israel’s very existence. It’s literally support for what in effect amounts to genocide.
They have become the very thing they claim to hate.
He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword – again.
Doesn’t matter what he said, the spotlights are shining on two of the most toxic Democratic politicians in the land. Poor Nancy is downing a double and moaning “Why me, Lord? Why me.”
Jewish Jews are amongst the most ardent of Trump supporters .
JINOs not so much.
but which group like Trump has Jewish grandkids? which has wehrmacht eligible gross kinder?
I don’t expect American Jews or American Christians to be “loyal” to Israel. What I do expect is that they will support the existence of the nation of Israel.
This is not about the Jews or the Jewish vote. It is about the overwhelming number of Americans who are either active Christians or who attended a Christian church as a child. Christian churches are not all about the New Testament. Not by a long shot. The Old Testament is the story of the Tribes of Israel and they are revered. A large majority of Americans support Israel.
Trump is branding the Democrats as anti-semites. They are. If you think Trump is not going to leverage that then I don’t know what to say.
I hear Trump get weak knees and talk gun control and bump stocks and I think, “Fractal Rabbit, maybe you gave President Trump too much credit.” That’s a great way to shoot himself in the foot, metaphorically speaking. And pardon the pun.
Then he goes and says stuff like this. It’s absolute genius. The Overton Window gets nudged wider and wider. Subjects that were considered electrified third rails, are proven to be otherwise.
He says something that every reasonable person can see. Something that they think is true but think they can’t say openly. And the left falls over itself to call him some name(s) (in this case Anti-Semitic), that once again, any reasonable (.i.e. Not Manju…) person thinks A)That isn’t true and B) They must think the same of me.
I don’t buy the 3-D/4-D Chess Master stuff. But I will stipulate that he is a Social-Rhetorical Savant.
Kate on August 21, 2019 at 8:18 pm said:
I don’t expect American Jews or American Christians to be “loyal” to Israel. What I do expect is that they will support the existence of the nation of Israel.
* * *
It seems to me that your expectation (with which I agree) may be what President Trump means by “loyalty” — not, as the Democrats try to spin it, as allegiance to the country of Israel or uncritical support of every aspect of its politics, just basic recognition that Israel is a country specifically founded to preserve and protect the Jewish people and their religion, and deserves respect and support for that purpose.
https://news.yahoo.com/trump-dual-loyalty-only-anti-semitic-in-your-head-181648117.html
More from Neo’s link to the “Founding Fathers” article:
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/roots-of-the-u-s-israel-relationship
“Then he goes and says stuff like this. It’s absolute genius.”
So…clumsy, unclear remarks that can be thrown back at you to make you look like the demon the opposition wants you to look like coming out of your own mouth is absolute genius.
If this is what winning looks like, then Trump is at least right when he says we’ll be tired of winning.
Worth reading again in this context.
https://www.thenewneo.com/2019/08/20/the-growing-acceptance-of-anti-semitism-by-the-democratic-party/#comment-2452459
Richard Aubrey on August 21, 2019 at 4:47 pm said:
https://babylonbee.com/news/women-who-dont-believe-israel-has-right-to-exist-not-sure-why-they-got-banned-from-israel
https://babylonbee.com/news/ilhan-omar-withdraws-support-from-bill-to-save-the-earth-after-learning-thats-where-israel-is
I R A Darth Aggie,
I have always had trouble understanding how Jews can support any leftist once WW II had ended. Every statist government has meant death to Jews, or at least severe reduction in the availability to them of their (and my) religion.
Continued support for leftists after 9/11 deepened that trouble. 9/11 removed any and all doubt that anyone could have that those Muslims who hate Israel hate America as well. And yet, since before then and continuing to the present, American leftists have for the most part been overly sympathetic to Israel-hating Muslims.
Oh–I need to add the obvious: Anti-Zionism is anti-semitism.
Harry,
I don’t think it’s clumsy. At. All.
But, even if I did think it was clumsy and ill-advised, I would remind myself that there is almost nothing President Trump could say, on nearly any possibility controversial subject that won’t be used against him.
Be honest: think of something rather innocent he could say about Jews and the state of Israel. Now picture the screams as the MSM takes it and spins it and gins up the mindless left and ignorant middle. Think of the tweets where they only partially quote him. Think of the sound bites and video clips where they edited a portion out.
He cannot win playing it safe and silent and George W. Bush ‘nice’. And they’ve forced him into a situation where the only way to win is to ignore their “rules” and arbitrary boundaries of “decency”. They are not decent people. And the shrieking and the repeated attempts to finally make this comment ‘Beyond The Pale’, even more so than the time before, and the time before that are not the endeavors of decent people.
This isn’t going to change the vote of anyone already in Trump’s camp.
“ So…clumsy, unclear remarks that can be thrown back at you to make you look like the demon the opposition wants you to look like coming out of your own mouth is absolute genius.“
Who’s gonna throw it back? Bernie who married a shiksa? Schumer whose daughter married a shiksa? Sandy of Aragon? Shift who married a shiksa?
Sorry the Party of FDRyms has no legs to stand on
Fractal Rabbit on August 22, 2019 at 7:34 am said:
Harry,
I don’t think it’s clumsy. At. All.
But, even if I did think it was clumsy and ill-advised, I would remind myself that there is almost nothing President Trump could say, on nearly any possibility controversial subject that won’t be used against him.
…
He cannot win playing it safe and silent and George W. Bush ‘nice’. And they’ve forced him into a situation where the only way to win is to ignore their “rules” and arbitrary boundaries of “decency”. They are not decent people.
* * *
This has been clear since before Trump won, and started as soon as he had the GOP nomination (if not sooner). They weren’t decent to Bush I & II, or to Reagan, or to Nixon, or to any GOP candidate, official, ally, or voter that got in their way, or had the potential to do so.
David Harsanyi hems and haws and ifs and buts, as is the custom at Never-Trump NRO, but finally gets the bottom line correct:
https://thefederalist.com/2019/08/22/the-perils-of-supporting-israel/
Any Republican or conservative or Israel supporter twisting their hands because Trump’s rhetoric is “unsavory” has completely lost sight of the stakes in this political debate.
Richard Samuelson makes good points, starting with the first bolded line, which experience has shown to be the very epitome of wisdom in our political climate:
https://amgreatness.com/2019/08/21/what-rashida-tlaib-could-learn-from-general-washington/