Another nail in the coffin of women’s sports
Here we have another example of a phenomenon that’s become more common lately [emphasis mine]:
A transgender woman who competed as a man as recently as last year won an NCAA women’s track national championship on Saturday.
Franklin Pierce University senior Cece Telfer beat the eight-woman field in the Division II women’s 400-meter hurdles by more than a second, with a personal collegiate-best time of 57.53…
As recently as January 2018, Telfer had been competing as an athlete for Franklin Pierce men’s team as Craig. Telfer finished eighth in a field of nine in the Men’s 400 meters at the Middlebury Winter Classic in Vermont.
The NCAA allows male athletes to compete as women if they suppress their testosterone levels for a full calendar year…
According the NCAA’s Transgender Handbook, “According to medical experts on this issue, the assumption that a transgender woman competing on a women’s team would have a competitive advantage outside the range of performance and competitive advantage or disadvantage that already exists among female athletes is not supported by evidence.”
Does anyone believe that last bit, including the “medical experts” themselves? I’ve read some of their arguments, and they just don’t hold up (I discussed it somewhat here and here). Simply put, particularly if a person has gone through puberty as a male (and most of these athletes have), then some of the changes are quite permanent and cannot be reversed by taking hormones or suppressing hormones afterward.
However, of course not all trans women are going to beat all the biological women against whom they compete. The trans woman must be a really good athlete to begin with. But once that is accomplished, that person has a tremendous advantage that is conferred not by training alone or natural talent alone but by virtue of having been a male. The reason we divide competitions into male and female divisions in the first place is because there is an undeniable advantage to being male, and if women competed against men then virtually all the qualifiers and not just the winners would be male. People seem to want and like women’s sports, too, and so we have different divisions just as we do within each sex for weights in boxing, for example.
The only reason transgender women don’t totally dominate women’s sports is because there aren’t so many yet who are highly-trained athletes, and because allowing transgender women to compete against biological women is also not a universal at present.
My high school 100m time (10.4) would set the women’s world record. I was not, by any strecth of the imagination, an elite athlete. That 10.4, by the way, is nearly a full second slower than the men.s record. (9.58)
I give you the Australian women’s national soccer team:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3609949/Matildas-lose-7-0-Newcastle-Jets-15s-Rio-Olympics-warm-up.html
I predict transgender mania will come to an end when the long-term side effects of the lifelong hormone therapy required for transition become evident. Already there is at least one case study in the medical literature of a Canadian male-to-female transgender who developed testicular cancer 15 months after starting estrogen therapy. For those interested in the medical details, the abstract is here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30563561
Some folks might want to consider whether winning athletic competitions as transgender teenagers or young adults is worth the long-term health risks.
Penncat, science is bad if it doesn’t support the transgender agenda.
IMO the gloriication of ‘transgenderism’ is a sad and dangerous cult.
parker,
It is also disgusting. When will the world realize that the norms of the bell curve set our societal norms. Those who are at the extreme ends should be treated with respect, but only if they treat everyone else that way.
And the Gods of the Copybook Laugh.
Always be careful about what you wish for — it may be granted, with uninticipated repercussions.
When xe competes with she — who could possibly foreseen the logical result?
science is bad if it doesn’t support the transgender agenda
Yeah, it’s only a matter of time until the Ontario legislature has those researchers fired from their jobs and stripped of their medical licenses.
So is your deer a horse yet?
besides that, tons of things are big negs now for ladies and not much ANYONE could do… DO note that there were people who predicted this kind of bs having knowledge of ideological thinking on the ground…
guys been watching this unfold for AGES among other things that dont get talked about, because well, you would have to go against the constant same droning message and articles like this one:
Why it’s harder for successful women to find love
https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/life-and-relationships/dating-expert-explains-why-it-s-harder-for-successful-women-to-find-love-20180805-p4zvo6.html
1) We have determined that the majority of women never think for themselves
2) They refuse to trust their own family and loved ones – hating family enough to prune the tree
3) and do whatever the leadership tells them to do (see 1) – regardless of obvious outcome not being what is presented
4) will argue against the above, in favor of answers so worn out they are almost traditions often with proven falsehoods behind them
the above is and has led them to what has to be a crisis situation all over as the social edifices and actions their power backed, has not worked out at all the way they were told when their lives energies were needed (and taken from their own lifes needs)
They are in a catch 22… ie. the ideology has now been applied and has enough power that its contradictions, that all ideologies have, are going to tear it apart as they lose power to the new group with the numbers…
this situation also shows why ideologies do this, as they have no brakes… who would suggest to Stalin a new way to go? who would stand up and tell the ladies where their ideas are going to lead? they do not listen to anyone but their leaders as a group.. (the ones that dont are the exceptions that prove the rule)
I hope people have invested in ovens cause its going to get bad at some point given the allowed rhetoric and how its bottled up from action long and longer..
Men used to laugh powerful fruit bats out of politics
now women are ruled by them…
and their ideas which cant be questioned
regardless of how ill conceived
I suggest sitting back and watching the show…
even if you could wave a wand now, it would take over 15 years to have effect
so watching is bout all you can really do, they wont listen to anything but their sources, which all crow the same songs, speak in the same formats, and are contradictory as heck on many levels…
Shut down the NCAA and all the other woke folk who are destroying the soul of sports.
One second is a huge win in 400 meters.
This is nuts and needs to be stopped. It will ruin sports for real women.
The advent of sports for girls in grade school, high school and college has been one of the best things of modern American society. Watching my youngest compete at the Nebraska state swim meet was one of my proudest moments.
As an aside, I watched the Creighton women scrimmage against some male undergrads who had played in high school. The boys just beat them up. If they would have had a coach, it would have been a bloodbath.
Men are different they are not made like women who have wider pelvic areas, and lots of other stuff to make babies along with a much different chemical balance with hormones. Young men who are fit are strong, fast and they have different chemicals that make them excellent warriors if need be. All this strange new thinking and chemicals to make men into women and women into men might not be a good idea, especially when it comes to sports where women are just coming into their own at the collegiate level.
This stuff is just creepy.
Why don’t the girls just go on strike? Line up at the starting line and stand up instead of running when the gun goes off? When ever there’s some military action there’s always Code Pink or some other lefty women’s group vowing not to have sex with men ( from their looks, It wouldn’t be a problem anyway). I’d guess that the girls are more influenced by the SJWs and have a harder time making the decision.
I think most people, even liberals, know this is a bad, nutty idea, but the SJW Red Guards have made it impossible to disagree without opening oneself to ferocious attacks.
I notice how carefully the few women athletes voice their objections while nodding to the validity of TG concerns.
My guess is the TG movement is a fad which will run its course and collapse, much as the LSD movement did in the sixties.
People will realize that TG isn’t the next step and doesn’t automatically lead to a wonderful new world. TG will continue to exist of course, just as LSD does, but TG’s current mission as the cutting edge in civil rights and human sexuality is way overblown. It creates more problems than it solves.
I would say TG has a place in human experience and in society, but the details are being worked out. For one thing TG’s place is not in women’s sports.
Political congruence (“=”) in its many colors. They will have to avoid judgment, and reduce the number of labels, if they hope to deflect the bigotry charge. Pro-Choice will not slice, cut, dismember her/him/it this time.
expat,
Bbbut the bell curve is a heterosexual white male tool designed to oppress the victims of toxic white male masculinity. There is no bell curve in 1984.
huxley,
The only solution is to defy them and laugh in their faces. Ridicule is a potent weapon.
The only solution is to defy them and laugh in their faces. Ridicule is a potent weapon.
parker: I’ve heard that recommended as an if-only-they-had solution to Nazism. I love humor but I think it’s over-rated as a response to fascism.
I suspect most people close to this are making a simple benefit-risk calculation and concluding they would just as soon let someone else go first. Note the way Martina Navratilova backed-down on TG in women’s athletics.
When it comes to humor, note there are almost no comedians bucking the SJW line now. Even liberal comics like Seinfeld and Chris Rock won’t perform at colleges anymore for fear of the SJW mob.
But will Biden sniff their hair?
Most of the Social Justice Warriors have strained if not nonexistent relationship with reality.
huxley,
It may be a feeble weapon, but on an individual to individual basis it may be potent. After lawfare comes warfare. As Mao the mass murder noted, power comes from the muzzle of a gun. The only final question is does the left think they can win that ultimate confrontation? I think not, but we may see. After all, they are crazy.
Cornhead,
‘Real’ women? Off to the reeducation camps with you!
You stated “The trans woman must be a really good athlete to begiN with”
According to the web site Let’s Run,”Her flat 400-meter pb was 55.77 as a man and it’s 54.41 as a woman”
I ran a full second faster as a 15 year old in high school and I assure you I was no phenom.
So it’s now mediocre men becoming champions
L’avenir de la femme est l’homme.
Men should be quiet and let the real women lose often enough that they don’t bother to compete if there are TG’s allowed to compete against them. Let the TG get the Gold. The real women should organise another informal but real competition at a neighbouring venue.
In fact, come to think of it it could be called “Real Women’s Sport” or “Real female competition”
One commenter suggests the girls go on strike. Good idea but won’t work with the left – they have no shame or decency.
Gandhi only beats the Brits, not totalitarians like Germans or USSR in WW2.
********************
Another says end the NCAA – yes, and for the right reason that it’s unrelated business income for academia and not allowed if they want to be tax-exempt.
I expect they’ll put an end to this once there’s real money involved.
huxley on May 29, 2019 at 10:30 pm said:
I think most people, even liberals, know this is a bad, nutty idea, but the SJW Red Guards have made it impossible to disagree without opening oneself to ferocious attacks.
The same thing happens on vaccination, gravity, and whether the Earth is geo centric, heliocentric, or Flat Earth theory.
Humans aren’t all that different. There are Red Guards left and right. Depending on what I say, the reactions are the same.
This is nuts and needs to be stopped. It will ruin sports for real women.
The advent of sports for girls in grade school, high school and college has been one of the best things of modern American society. Watching my youngest compete at the Nebraska state swim meet was one of my proudest moments.
There are plenty of people that could have stopped it, if they were allowed in your American schools. But they aren’t, because of the fear that they are right wing activists or pedos. So people have given the children wholly to the Left.
How has that worked out so far amongst the child trafficking rings?
You’re being way to generous when you say, “The trans woman must be a really good athlete to begin with,” Neo.
The college track champion you posted about finished 8th out of 9 in a regional track meet competing as a man against division 3 college athletes. The level of competition is more or less equivalent to your average boys’ high school meet. Yet this same athlete was national champion competing against girls.
All one needs to do is take a look at the recently crowned women’s world cycling champion, Rachel McKinnon. If you didn’t know any better, you’d think you were looking at an obese man that rolled out of bed and decided to race bicycles.
I’m still waiting for somebody to explain gender and how you trans it.
I think that unless there were not distressingly large numbers of gender confused persons, or lunatic persons for some reason excited by the concept of gender fluidity, already running loose in society, these social inanities would not be gaining any … uh … traction.
But as any unfortunate man who dedicates ten minutes of his time to reading gender theory material, or even glancing at the British newspaper trash linked to in Drudge will discover, an astonishingly large and unabashed minority of human organisms are gleefully, and proudly, perverse.
Well, they are ‘perverse’ if you believe there is an essential human nature from which normative moral deductions can be deduced. And they don’t believe it.
They obviously don’t believe it. Which leads one to ask: “What then are these things ‘that want’? Do they have a core, a center, even a unified or integrated and objective identity?
And I think that the pop science gilded high priests of this cult of appetite and will, would shrug, and then themselves respond by saying: “No. You are using old categories of what it means to be ‘human’ ”
So what is the new definition one is dealing with in dealing with this phenomenon? Are we traditionally speaking dealing with a form of illness driven opportunism and fraud? Or instead are we confronting the social emergence of a new thing (though it is in fact a very old thing in human history) a centerless, pointless willing ; a disorganized collection of urges expressing through a human skin bag; a lunatic will in the form of, and masquerading as, a coherent human being?
If your biology does not define you at a very basic categorical level, where is, and what is, the “you”?
Whatever “you” want you to “be.”
Ray: “I’m still waiting for somebody to explain gender and how you trans it.”
Men are from Mars.
Women are from Venus.
All other invented genders are from Uranus. 🙂
Ray, DNW: It’s worse than you even imagine.
Consider the situation with my family’s trans teen. Let’s say this person was born a boy, named Jacob, who, after unusually extreme divorce-related trauma and a suicide attempt has decided that he is really a girl named Jessica. Apparently a doctor told him and his family that his suicidal feelings have nothing to do with his parents’ drawn-out divorce (that was so crazy that you wouldn’t believe the details if I told you) but are actually due to people not acknowledging Jessica’s correct gender.
Jacob obsesses about being a girl named Jessica and can only talk about LGBT issues. But Jacob/Jessica doesn’t seem to have any interest in actually being a girl. He wears almost the same clothes he used to wear, does the same activities he used to do, makes no real attempt to resemble, sound like or act like a girl, much less worry about finer details that real transgenders I have known pay attention to: a woman walks differently than a man, for example. He shrugs this all off: “I’m a gay transgirl.” “Gay transgirl?” Yes: he only has sex with girls and since he is a girl … that makes him gay. It’s also put forth as a built-in excuse for looking like a guy.
This apparently seems perfectly reasonable to millennials. It’s totally bizarre to sane people.
No reasonable stranger would mistake him for a girl. The family, who knows perfectly well that he is a boy, struggles to pretend, to keep the peace. If you make a mistake of “misgendering” or “deadnaming” he will have a giant tantrum and his immediate family – who either bought into this BS or figure it’s better than suicide attempts – will lash out at the guilty party. Obviously, it’s tearing the family apart and now entire groups won’t associate with other groups, or come to events if the others are there.
And in the end, what’s the point? Jacob/Jessica doesn’t have the slightest interest in being a girl .. only in making other people jump through hoops to pretend that he is a girl. Gender identity has nothing to do with it.
melange; Richard:
Depends what you mean by “really good athlete.” I just mean quite fit and athletic. Most of these people definitely are that.
In other words, a couch potato guy can’t win at female meets.
And I don’t know what your definition of “obese” is, but mine doesn’t include this photo.
KyndllG:
Sounds like your relative has a WHOLE lot more going on than being transgender. Good luck with it; sounds very difficult.
What you have described reminds me that I think at some point sheer rage (of a rather suppressed displaced sort) has to be considered.
He [speaking abstractly of some hypothetical case] hates his parents, right down to whatever he thinks organically constitutes their basic, selfish, self-excusing identities. If he can estrange himself from them on a fundamental level, throw a little dirt in their faces by rejecting their assumed categories of being – no matter how dysfunctionally they lived them out – then he will be retaliating.
He’s saying to his parents [or those he puts in their category as likewise responsible]: “You are shit, and I’m not like you and you are going to have to put up with it.” He will burn down the gender house as part of his desire for revenge.
At least that is what I find to be a plausible, if partial, explanation.
This idea is reinforced as I reflect on a TV special I saw years ago about a young girl with whatever that impulse to starve themselves is called.
She went into treatment. She recovered somewhat. Then the camera crew recorded a family dinner.
And I thought, ” If I had to put up with the barely cloaked, psychologically molesting malevolence of these parents, I’d either kill myself, or them, too.
I have come to the conclusion that those of us who had generous, supportive, and loving parents, have no conception of what life is like for the children of morally corrupt and ultimately viciously selfish and resentful, parents.
In a very real sense, Telfer’s performance proved the statement was not true.
SECONDARY GAINS: In psychoanalysis, social, occupational, or interpersonal advantages that a patient derives from symptoms. Indirect benefit, usually obtained through an illness or debility. Such gains may include monetary and disability benefits, personal attention, or escape from unpleasant situations and responsibilities, and are precipitated by the reactions of others, rather than causal factors.
https://psychologydictionary.org/secondary-gains/
I’m not keen on psychoanalysis but IMO secondary gains is a valid insight that goes along with “you get more of what you incentivize.”
As an armchair psychologist I’d bet much, if not most of current transgenderism is about secondary gains.
Unsurprisingly, it is difficult to find a single video of the the 400 hurdles race. I wonder why?
Re: Secondary Gains. There’s a great self-help book from the 70’s, “i want to change but i don’t know how.” by two psychiatrists, Tom Rusk and Randy Read. The book opens with the case of an anorexic teenager, Ellie, who weighs 89 lbs. and is miserable. She has already been taken to the hospital twice to no avail. Her parents are frantic to get her help, so they see Dr. Rusk or Dr. Read (the book isn’t specific).
Anyway, Dr. R. hears the stories from both sides. The parents are decent folks but busy and they lavish their affection on the other, more perfect daughter. Then Dr. R, in private with Ellie, tells her she shouldn’t change because her anorexia gives her control, lets her off from her parents’ expectations, causes her parents pain and gets their attention.
“Ellie, you’re powerful! Not only can’t I get rid of your condition, I wouldn’t even try. Because if I succeeded, you might lose a lot more than you’d gain.”
“I wouldn’t blame you a bit if you choose to keep doing what you are doing. You’re outrageously successful. You haven’t got the guts to risk living the best life you can, so you’ll go on copping out as a poor, fragile, suffering invalid.”
Then Dr. R. brings the parents back into the room and tells them:
“If you want Ellie better, give up your expectations of fame, beauty and academic accomplishments. If you care about whether she lives or dies more than how well she performs, then worry less about her eating habits. Don’t miss an opportunity to show her with words, hugs and kisses how much you love her. Love her because she is Ellie, no matter how she performs ever again.”
Dr. R never saw Ellie again, but later heard Ellie had turned her life around and she attributed it to that one session. Dr. R. admits he took a chance and it’s not always that quick or simple but offers Ellie as an example of the possible.