Home » The illegal immigrant “family separation” meme and its origins and consequences

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The illegal immigrant “family separation” meme and its origins and consequences — 25 Comments

  1. This is yet another example of the left and it’s media friends totally misreading most average people’s thinking.

    I was at a family gathering this weekend and overheard a discussion of this issue and the general conclusion was that if you don’t want to be separated from your children then don’t try to enter the country illegally. And this group included a couple of rabid Trump haters.

    In my observation there is no other issue where the elite left/media is so out of line with a vast majority of citizens of both ‘R’ and ‘D’ than illegal immigration.

  2. Griffin:

    That’s interesting.

    I’ve not discussed the issue at all with anyone so far, but my strong suspicion is that my liberal friends and family members would be on the side of the MSM. But I don’t know.

  3. Neo,

    Maybe it’s just my family, I don’t know. Most that lean Democrat are not leftist they are union member types not Evergreen State types so there is that.

    I strongly believe that the number of people that really believe some of these leftist fantasies is pretty small and almost always totally immune to the costs of their policies. Environmentalism is another issue where this shows up.

  4. Griffin:

    The people I know are highly susceptible to that sort of propaganda, and they are not necessarily themselves leftists but they don’t do in-depth study and they read the MSM and listen to NPR and those are their talking points and their beliefs, for the most part (and the beliefs of almost everyone they know, except weirdo me).

  5. Neo,

    Yep, it’s my theory that being affected by a policy is the strongest way to change your view. I saw this first hand living in logging country when the environmentalists virtually killed the industry over the spotted owl 25 years ago. The same thing happens with illegal immigration. My Trump hating sister rails on and on about the ‘illegals’ more than he does yet doesn’t see the irony in that.

    Which is why the left has to tie any policy to Trump because when isolated they so often lose on these issues.

  6. I know this will seem extreme, but I don’t want a wall. I want hellfire drones, hundreds of them, patrolling the southern border, and blasting any and everyone crashing the border. It might require the death of a few hundred to send the message, but once sent it would stop the border crash. same goes for Europe. Blow those invaders out of the water.

    Same goes for anyone trying to break into my house uninvited at 2 am. My give a damn is busted.

  7. parker:

    I am strongly against illegal immigration, but waging an actual hot war on the illegal immigrants themselves (and their children) is most definitely not the way to go. It is, quite literally, overkill.

    Not to mention the backlash, which would have a lot more moral force than the current backlash.

  8. The obvious response is that generally the international norm is for genuine asylum seekers to seek their asylum in the nearest ‘safe’ country. Which for these apparently mostly central American immigrants is Mexico. So return the entire intact families to Mexico and let them figure it out.

  9. Im with Griffin on that. Why can we just send them all back across? It isnt our problem anyway.

  10. Harry:

    Current US law governs the wait period for those who seek asylum, in order to rule on the veracity of their claims. The government can either catch-and-release (Obama administration) or detain (Trump). I believe that US law overrules international law on this.

  11. I know my idea is a pipe dream in this politicized bureaucratic world but it can’t be emphasized enough that this is on Mexico big time.

    Also saw a letter from a Civil Rights Commisioner at Powerline that really lays it out very well. Can’t provide link right now but it’s well stated.

  12. Griffin:

    Before I read your comment I had just posted a discussion of that letter from the civil rights commissioner. See this.

  13. Worrying about backlash will never end the invasion of America or Europe. The left is never going to back down until they are forced to back down.. Flooding the USA and Europe with 3rd worlders is meant to destroy the values of Western Civilization. Period. Extreme times call for extreme measures. The invasion of ‘refugees’ is an act of war, and needs to be recognized as war by other means. Worst of all, it is war waged by the ‘elite’ against their own people and culture. Do not enter my home uninvited.

  14. parker:

    Saying it is an act of war does not make it an act of war. It is not an act of war, and killing is not a good response at all, and that’s not just because of backlash, as I believe I made clear in my comment.

    You are advocating murdering children in a situation that does not fit the definition of war or collateral damage. I realize that you are frustrated with the whole situation but your “remedy” is not a moral or justified remedy.

    There are many remedies that do not involve violence and that could be applied. Some are draconian and would cause a backlash as well, but they are far more morally (and strategically) justified than the one you suggest.

  15. “Saying it is an act of war does not make it an act of war.”

    -Neo

    And with all due respect Neo, saying that it isn’t an act of war doesn’t make it so either.

    I’m with parker on this one (at least as far as classifying it). The situation on the U.S./Mexican border is almost certainly an act of war; 4th Generation War foisted on the American populace (and the EU populace for that mattter) by the forces of Pan-national Progressivism/Globalism.

    Some elements of 4th Gen Warfare, as delineated by Wikipedia, that could be identified on the Immigration/Border issue:

    -A direct attack on the enemy’s culture.

    -Highly sophisticated psychological warfare especially through media manipulation and lawfare.

    -Occurs in low-intensity conflicts, involving actors from all networks.

    -Non-combatants are tactical dilemmas.

    One of 4th Generation Warfare’s goals is “To convince the enemy’s political decision makers that their goals are either unachievable or too costly for the perceived benefit.” Those ‘decision makers’ are as much the people of the U.S. as the politicians.

    Just because many of the poor people attempting to cross the border, families and all, don’t realize they are tools of something larger and more insidious, it doesn’t mean that they aren’t tools just the same.

    They are the cheapest, most effective infantry money can buy: they don’t expect to get paid by the people using then (and don’t know they are being used) and possess the finest armor known to mankind. They have the armor of Morality and Bad Optics. It’s one thing to fire on armed invaders. Its another to fire on civilian non-combatant “invaders” who don’t think of themselves that way.

    Now, I’m not saying that I agree with parker’s desire to use lethal force on the border. I’ll settle for Trump’s wall. For now. But I can assure you, this is meant to break the US apart, to culturally and psychologically weaken us.

    If we don’t stop this invasion (and that’s exactly what it is) it will get bloody, and it will get bloody very fast once it begins. All bets will be off.

  16. “In short (although nothing about this post has been short!), the situation is complicated and fraught with difficulties, but propagandists are determined to simplify it.” – Neo

    And nothing simplifies a situation better than lying about it.

    http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2018/jun/15/tweets/tweeted-photo-inaccurately-indicates-boy-caged-fed/

    “A photo tweeted in opposition to federal authorities separating children from parents detained at the U.S.-Mexico border showed what looked like an unhappy boy in a cage.

    The photo wasn’t taken of a boy in custody, we found. Rather, the child was in an open-topped enclosure temporarily erected for a June 2018 Texas protest of the separation of children from parents.

    We rate the tweeted version of the photo False.”

    When you’ve lost Politifact….

    Daily Wire is a bit more blunt.
    https://www.dailywire.com/news/31782/activists-spread-shocking-photo-immigrant-child-james-barrett

    “Activists Spread Shocking Photo Of Immigrant Child In Cage. There’s Just One Problem.
    ..
    One of Vargas’ followers also expressed a desire to find out exactly where it came from because “conservatives will say it’s fake if I don’t quote a source.”

    It turns out that Karissa was right to worry about conservatives calling it “fake” because fake is exactly what it is. The image was taken as a protest stunt by a pro-immigrant group.”

  17. To deny what is happening in the USA and Europe is not an act of war is to deny reality. What burns worst is that our betters are encouraging the invasions. My give a damn is busted when it comes to parading childern as propaganda to make me weep and pity those poor unfortunate kiddies and then label me a racist xenophobe. Why are we spending resources dealing with invaders, no matter what their age, instead of speeding up the process for those seeking to enter legally?

    And speaking of the children, what about spending resources on children born in America and living in poverty? Must they play 5th fiddle to the 3rd world children illegally, and cruelly, smuggled across our borders?

    This is war, war against our laws and culture. Failure to act accordingly has dire consequences. Backlash? The real backlash will not be pretty, it would be nice to avoid that… for the children.

  18. parker:

    “War” has a meaning—as in “hot war.” This is not a hot war.

    Otherwise, “war” is just a metaphor.

    An invasion of illegal immigrants, most of whom are here for financial reasons, is not a hot war and neither justifies nor requires killing people, including children. That does not mean it’s not a very serious problem that needs dealing with in a strong way.

    As I said, most of the arrivals are coming to make money or get money. Some really are also interested in liberty (and/or asylum) and the rest of what America stands for. But if they are here illegally, they need to be deported—not killed. And if they qualify for bona fide asylum, they can stay after a hearing has determined that.

    Some are here to exploit bleeding hearts and the welfare system. Some are vicious criminals or are otherwise bent on destruction. Again, deportation is the answer, and a better system to keep illegal immigrants out in the first place.

    None of that involves firing on hordes of people, including women and children, because they are trying to come in illegally.

    Even Trump would not advocate what you’re advocating, nor would the vast majority of people who are against illegal immigration and think a strong and exclusionary response is necessary.

  19. Well neo,

    I know you are “against illegal immigrartion” and I know you want to resolve the dangerous problem through peaceful means. I get that, and I’m all for peaceful means when peaceful means are possible. BUT, lawfare will never solve this invasion dilemma through the courts. Just ask a Hawaiian judge or the 9th circuit. How long must we wait? 10 years? By then it will be game over. The vioence committed on our soil by illegals costs lives. It costs treasure in the justice system. It costs treasure in the educational, health, and welfare systems.

    Billions upon billions of dollars and thousands of lives upon lives, years upon years. Enough! Yes, the vast majority of the illegal invaders just want to escape violence and poverty in their own countries, I get that, but how is that our probelma? It is not our problem, period. It is war by other means, encouraged by our own elites.

    My give a damn is busted. I feel no pity or remorse. All invasions must be treated as an act of war. 1 million illegal aliens or 1 million of the peoples red army, what is the difference? Yes, you will say the latter is a hostile power. But so are the former.

  20. As far as “hot war” is concerned, just ask the families who had their members murdered, maimed, or raped by the not hot war illegals. For an intelligent person, it seems to me, that you are tip toeing around the obvious. But I am just a flyover country, aging, bumpkin farm boy so what do I know? Apparently nothing.

  21. The general rule of thumb is:

    If a virulent meme is flooding the media in order to castigate, denigrate and essentially dehumanize Trump, and his supporters, and the GOP, and conservatives generally (or people to the right of center)—or for that matter, the State of Israel and its leadership—then that meme must automatically be suspect, even disbelieved, until proven true.

    The problem is the sheer relentlessness of the propaganda.

    The sheer onslaught.

    (Of course, this is the “proven” tactic.)

    The Left—or too huge a part of it—simply does not care any more.

    “War” was mentioned above.

    What has been going on for years (way before Trump) is essentially propaganda warfare (Soviet style) on anyone the Left, especially the MSM, deemed an opponent. (Call it a lengthy “softening-up” barrage if you want).

    No wonder they were so gobsmacked when Hillary didn’t win. And so there had to be “a reason” for it. An excuse. A deus ex machina—very much like what passes for “rationalism” in the Middle East:
    http://www.zionism-israel.com/hdoc/Nasser_Hussein.htm

  22. parker:

    I couldn’t care less about farm boy vs city boy or anything like that, as I think you are aware of from commenting here all these years. I engage with everyone here on the strength of their ideas, and if I disagree I disagree because of my disagreement with their ideas and not any other characteristics they might have. I believe I succeed in treating people here with respect, and I’m treating you with respect and engaging with your ideas.

    You are using war as a metaphor and this is not actually a war, although it is a very serious problem that needs to be dealt with. Metaphoric “wars” do not justify killing children. Even regular hot wars don’t justify it except as unavoidable and tragic collateral damage. What’s more, there are other solutions to this metaphoric war.

    The illegal immigrants (or legal immigrants, for that matter, or even citizens) who commit violent crimes are a completely different situation. They should be dealt with as criminals, and the illegal aliens who commit violent crimes given the punishment they deserve.

    But that has nothing to do with killing or injuring people at the border, just because they are trying to enter illegally. I completely disagree with that and I’ve given my reasons why.

    I am not tiptoeing around anything. I believe in strict enforcement of our laws against illegal immigration. I believe in strong penalties for violent crimes.

  23. The war has been declared by the Leftist alliance against all of humanity: they are enemies of humanity. But for American patriots, they don’t have the guts to cleanse and purge their own country, let alone anybody else’s problems. The traitors they can’t touch or even think about doing anything to. The non citizens are much easier to deal with, in comparison.

    It’s easier to talk about doing something over at the border, because then they won’t have to be demoralized by going up against the Deep State and other alliances at District of Columbia. People might figure out who really rules them.

    I feel no pity or remorse.

    That’s how soviet propaganda and the NKVD got people to turn on their society. Once psychological disinformation works, the victims have no empathy or pity for the established system, making it much easier to overthrow. Then it is only a matter of labeling some Other group as a preliminary target such as Kulaks.

    Americans should not believe they are immune to these strategies. It has always worked on humanity.

  24. Neo: “That’s not necessarily true, by the way, because people asking for asylum (a large group) are not necessarily criminally prosecuted; they must await a hearing on the merits of their asylum claims, which might indeed be granted, and it’s during the wait that their separations occur.”

    A key point that you may have missed is that people asking for asylum at legal ports of entry get a hearing and are not arrested. The people arrested chose to enter the US illegally not at ports of entry.

    Another point:
    A large part of this problem may be due to law or policy about what the Border Patrol can do about people they catch at or near the border. If they could simply push them back across the border the problem would resolve itself quickly.

    Does anyone know what the law requires? Do they have to put anyone who gets one foot into the US into the legal system?

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