Being a spy is risky
It was clear from the start that the recent severe and sudden illnesses of UK-dwelling former anti-Russian spy Sergei Skirpal and his visiting daughter Yulia Skripal were most likely the result of poisoning. Skirpal had been “convicted of passing the identities of Russian intelligence agents working undercover in Europe to the UK.”
Now it’s been announced that, “Scientists at the UK’s military research facility at Porton Down have been examining a substance thought to be behind their collapse.” A policeman who came to their aid is also seriously ill, and previously Skripal’s 43-year-old son died under mysterious circumstances.
Russia has a history of this sort of thing, including possibly helping the Bulgarians with this dramatic murder (an event that also occurred in the UK, in London to be precise).
But although it’s virtually certain that the Skripals were poisoned, and probably by some nerve agent, it’s not quite as crystal clear that the Russians did it, although there’s no doubt they would be capable of it. In Skripal’s case, however, someone else may be trying to kill him, and perhaps make us think the Russians did it. Here’s why:
The possibility of an unexplained substance being involved has drawn comparisons with the 2006 poisoning of Alexander Litvinenko – a public inquiry concluded the killing of the Russian dissident was probably carried out with the approval of the Russian President, Vladimir Putin.
Former MI5 officer Annie Machon pointed out that the two cases were very different, however.
Mr Litvinenko was a whistleblower, dissident and consultant for MI6 actively at the time of his death, she said, whereas Mr Skripal has already been caught, convicted and pardoned [by Russia] and allowed to freely find safe haven in the UK.
“There’s no conceivable reason that I can see that the Russian state would have been targeting him at the moment,” she told BBC’s Breakfast. “That’s why we need to think about what else he might have been involved in.”
Maybe, however, the idea for the Russians is to just send the message, “If you turn on us, neither you nor your family will ever be safe, even after we pardon you.”
“That’s why we need to think about what else he might have been involved in.”
I second that motion.
Maybe it was the Clintons and Fusion GPS that did are responsible. Maybe he was trying to tell Mueller it was they, and not Trump or Trumpsters, that were in it up to their eyebrows.
Or maybe it has nothing whatsoever to do with these dead Russkies being Russkies.
Russia, Russia, Putin, Putin. Will this often false litany ever stop? Radio Free Europe is/was OK, but those nasty Russians did stuff on ‘our’ social media about our politics and that’s bad?
I highly recommend the Red Sparrow trilogy. Just finished the last book. Authentic. Excellent.
Skripal’s wife died of cancer in Britain in 2012, his son, 43, died during a visit to St Petersburg last year, and now the father and his daughter are dying. No reason to suspect that Russia is once again visiting retribution on its traitors, then.
Neo: Maybe, however, the idea for the Russians is to just send the message, “If you turn on us, neither you nor your family will ever be safe, even after we pardon you.”
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All defectors and such are subject to such ends, and whether it happens usually depends on things we will never know.
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Another Defector Dead in Washington
A former member of Putin’s inner circle has died violently and mysteriously in our nation’s capital
http://observer.com/2016/03/another-defector-dead-in-washington/
Mikhail Lesin
Nicknamed “the Bulldozer” for his forceful ways, Lesin brought Russia’s media to heel and kept it on-message with what Putin wanted. As Russia became an increasingly authoritarian country after 1999, media control was a vital part of the formula to keep Russians happy and politically quiet. Most members of the media were willing to be bought off by Lesin, while hold-outs who valued press freedom were dealt with harshly. The lucky ones, intimidated, fled into exile while less the fortunate became martyrs–most infamously the muckraking reporter Anna Politovskaya, a harsh regime critic who was gunned down in her Moscow apartment building on Putin’s birthday.
[snip]
Then he turned up dead. His lifeless body was found in his room at the Dupont Circle Hotel on the morning of November 5, 2015. The cause of Lesin’s death at age 58 was not announced by any American officials, though Russian state media said he died of a heart attack, citing unnamed family members. Putin made an official statement thanking the deceased for his media work, and Lesin was buried in Los Angeles.
‘Moscow Rules’: Why Russian Defectors Are Fair Game in Britain – and Not in Israel
Britain’s excellent intelligence services are rarely backed up by their politicians, so Russians on the run continue to die mysteriously
https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/.premium-why-russian-defectors-and-dissidents-are-fair-game-in-britain-1.5883876
“Yes, he was shot,” Smiley agreed. “In the face. At extremely close range. With a soft-nosed bullet. And cursorily searched. Had his wallet taken. That is the police diagnosis. But our diagnosis would be different, wouldn’t it, Lauder?”
“No way,” said Strickland, glowering at him through a cloud of cigarette smoke.
“Well, mine would.”
“Then let’s hear it, George,” said Lacon handsomely.
“The weapon used to kill Vladimir was a standard Moscow Centre assassination device,” Smiley said. “Concealed in a camera, a brief-case, or whatever. A soft-nosed bullet is fired at point-blank range. To obliterate, to punish, and to discourage others.
–John LeCarre, “Smiley’s People”
Maybe there is some conspiracy double-bluff and the Russians are being blamed unfairly.
But make no mistake. The NKVD/GRU/KGB/FSB are as brutal and nasty as any secret police/intelligence group humanity has produced.
And Putin came straight out of the the KGB.
huxley –
True. I don’t feel like it’s possible to know anything from the outside at this point.
hux-
I venture to guess the Chicomms and the Iranians are as bad, and the Turks are heading down that same road fast. But Russia gets all the headlines. Why?
Just reporting on who has the money in Russia bears a risk as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Klebnikov
I think it would be a bit strange for it to be the Russians. Remember Skripel was one of the spies the US traded for. If the Russians did do this, why would we do prisoner swaps with them in the future? At the very least, we’d increase our demands.
In any case, I agree with what was said above, no way for us to really know. Just another thing we’ll have to wait on.
The forensics will determine if this requires state-sponsored expertise.
I rather suspect that it does.
In which case, which nation?
Ordinary Joes just can’t lay their hands on such devilish stuff.
I call your attention to “Devil’s Foot” — by Holmes.
The more arcane the toxin, the more restrictive the agency.
In Holmes’ case, the toxin was so weird that the forensics gave it all away. This was one of the earliest accounts in the literature illustrating the extreme power of forensics to find a murderer.
Since the MSM tells us that the toxin is essentially novel, we can take it to the bank that this is state-sponsored — or is due to some Big Money player corrupting the wet-works squad of the GRU//KGB//FSB.
We can safely leave out non-European powers, BTW. The victim simply didn’t travel in those circles.
And the murderer REALLY has a hard-on for this guy.
That has to be a pretty select crowd, straight off.
The Russian KGB that created the Leftist alliance Weapon of Mass Deception in the US for the end of the Cold War… they weren’t kidding or joking or unserious or a bunch of clowns.
The hippies looked like a bunch of clowns weed weeding it up while sexual liberating free love trees, because it made you Americans underestimate them.
The Deep State, also doesn’t play around.
or is due to some Big Money player corrupting the wet-works squad of the GRU//KGB//FSB.
A false flag to get people to attack Russia, perhaps.
The novelty of the poison would be an obvious red flag, whether they intended to broadcast it or whether they intended it to be broadcast to provide a false flag attribution of the origin.
It’s the same with Uranium One selling US uranium overseas. If it was used against somebody, the traces of the refinement process can be traced somewhat back to where it came from (THE USA).
What they should have used was the US/Nazi derived heart attack medicine that can be deployed by dart or drone. It erases itself within the bloodstream soon afterwards, which creates a nearly undetectable fatality listed by the coroner as “death by heart attack”.
I recently came across data concerning this experimental weapon.
The Russians tend to use cruder methods, such as radiation poisoning.
The Alt Right radical supremacist factions are aligned with the Russian bear. This may also be a poke against them to get a reaction as well. Putin also has the Ark of Gabriel and other ancient super weapons/angel tech. Putin cannot match the US given our conventional supremacy (and there’s all kinds of stuff that is even better than that the US obtained from Operation Paperclip), so PUtin goes for “unconventional counters” to radiation weapons and missiles.
Putin said so, but it was during a European counsel so Americans were told by the MSM propagandists to ignore it: see nothing, there is nothing.
So if Putin truly feels under the gun, he is going to activate their stockpiles. Welcome WW3 people. Meanwhile you Americans are going to be fighting Civil War 2, so who is going to stop the world by policing the world? Lucifer is in the End Game now, while the rest of humanity thinks they are playing checkers for fun…
One of the reasons why Snowden went to Russia is because normally the US intel service would be able to get rid of him. But the FSB/kGB conflict makes it hard for US CIA to put agents into Russia.
Of course, if Snowden runs afoul of the FSB… that’s a different issue.
The Deep State does not like Snowdens any more than the Russians like defectors like Yuri Bezmenov that tell us exactly what the KGB was doing (something the media refused to tell you Americans).
The thing is, the Deep State in the US, is a lot more professional and covert. They prefer to eliminate people without a trace (heart attack) rather than sending messages like the Russians prefer.
My understanding is that the victims were subjected to a neurotoxin. You can buy some at your local gardening center. I use the stuff on fire ants and it is extremely effective.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organophosphate
Some neurotoxins are naturally occuring: sea snakes, cobras, coral snakes, gila monster and bearded lizards, as well as poison dart frogs. In fact, one can manufacture batrachotoxin, a rather potent variant discovered in frogs.
So: state actor? maybe. Not necessarily so. Had it been VX or similar agent, that would be point to state action. Yeah, I’m looking at you, Lil’ Kim.
today is the anniversary of ronald reagans EVil Empire speech…
Since the MSM tells us that the toxin is essentially novel, we can take it to the bank that this is state-sponsored – or is due to some Big Money player corrupting the wet-works squad of the GRU//KGB//FSB.
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no, there is a special agency for that which was resurected, i mentioned it here years ago, trying to get you guys to follwo things so when today happens, you would not sit there not knowing… duh
its one of the very few posts neo did not cut too much
KAMERA
July 21st, 2017
Obama and Trump: the wild MSM pendulum swing
arfldgrs Says: July 21st, 2017 at 4:04 pm
that was the LAST attempt, THREE years before that i tried:
October 6th, 2014
The world is full of wonders: behold, the mosquito
Artfldgr Says:
October 7th, 2014 at 9:04 am
And two years before that i tried:
June 18th, 2012
Juliet Poynz, changer?
artfldgr Says:
June 18th, 2012 at 4:35 pm
IF anyone bothered to read this, instead of neo saying they do, when i know they dont, they would have no misuse of terms which you uys are cutting apart like the way BS looks to a person in the know
Poison laboratory of the Soviet secret services
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_laboratory_of_the_Soviet_secret_services
Poison laboratory of the Soviet secret services, alternatively known as Laboratory 1, Laboratory 12, and Kamera which means “The Chamber” in Russian, was a covert research and development facility of the Soviet secret police agencies Currently: Several laboratories of the SVR, (headquartered in Yasenevo near Moscow), are responsible for the “creation of biological and toxin weapons for clandestine operations in the West”
neo was going through changers (purposefully ignoring evry changer i ever put up that would lead to more knowing rather than less)…
Juliet Stuart Poyntz who was originally Juliet Glazer
Testimony by former Soviet agent Whittaker Chambers tied Poyntz’ disappearance to the shadowy Soviet Comintern agent Josef Peters
former Deputy Director of Biopreparat Ken Alibek, this laboratory was possibly involved in the design of an undetectable chemical or biological agent to assassinate Gamsakhurdia
oh… but now someone is poisoned and neo wants to talk about it.
ok… now, what did we learn about this prior to today?
Chambers later stated that he heard Poyntz had been killed for attempted desertion, and this rumor contributed to his caution when he defected in 1938.
wait.. they also killed Willi Munsenberg.. and the Accountant for the Pope… and and and.. i was listing them out like crazy… even that they switched from thorium to polonium!
these were not KGB defectors these were GRU
so i have given you a clue…
here is the thread to follow…
Gamsakhurdia & Skripal
Georgian Penitentiary Agency Denies Poisoning of Gamsakhurdia’s Son
and what happend to Skripal son?
“It looks likely that his wife was murdered a year or so ago. His son was also murdered in 2017.”
one of the original things of the soviet organs, that even the mafia would not do, was go after families… torture family members. in fact, that was a way to control people when they came to the USa… to defect they either had no family (like most) took the small family they had with them exfiltrated, or never did becauxe of what happens to them.
why not look up the others?
The agents were deported without the right of return and exchanged in Vienna for four other convicted Russian citizens: Aleksandr Zaporozhskiy, Gennadiy Vasilenko, Sergey Skripal, and Igor Sutyagin.
People still buy into Russian propaganda here. Mention that KGB was behind the anti war protests of Vietnam, and people here and elsewhere will pop up countering it with ridicule because “they knew better”.
Americans only know about as much as the MSM propaganda and Deep State lets them know…
A security consultant who has worked for the company that compiled the controversial dossier on Donald Trump was close to the Russian double agent poisoned last weekend, it has been claimed.
The consultant, who The Telegraph is declining to identify, lived close to Col Skripal and is understood to have known him for some time.
Col Skripal, who is in intensive care and fighting for his life after an assassination attempt on Sunday, was recruited by MI6 when he worked for the British embassy in Estonia, according to the FSB, the Russian intelligence agency.
Ymar Sakar, worse, they often think that if they were in europe during WWII, they knew everything that went on in the theater… and this from an enlisted army 2nd class…
It simply makes no sense for the Russians to kill someone that was involved in a prisoner exchange. If they did, that sends a message not only to potential spies but also to the British and American governments.
We won’t be doing exchanges with them in the future it we think they’re going to cheat us. The Russians know this. So they either didn’t do it or had a damned good reason for doing so.
art:
How many WWII vets have you actually known? You are blowing smoke on that one. Stick to what you know.
I figure the only reason to use a fancy chem warfare substance would be if you want someone to know it is a state actor.
OR, at least you want someone to believe it was one of them.
Surely, there are more “accidental” methods available to State agencies if they really want to disguise a murder effectively.