John Kasich “just can’t” support Trump…
“You know, it’s painful. It’s painful. You know, people even get divorces, you know? I mean, sometimes, things come out that, look, I’m sorry that this has happened,” the Ohio governor said in an interviewaired Thursday on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe.” “But we’ll see where it ends up. I’m not making any final decision yet, but at this point, I just can’t do it.”
I’ll tell you what’s painful—the fact that, during the primaries when it mattered, Kasich had no trouble supporting Trump by staying in the race himself long long past his pull date.
What this really means is that Kasich won’t campaign for Trump in Ohio and let Trump access his network. In a close election this might make the difference.
Cornhead:
Yes. Kasich facilitated Trump’s nomination and won’t facilitate his election.
Kasich’s behavior is entirely consistent with acting as the agent of a GOPe (or faction thereof) that would rather that Hillary Clinton be elected than either Cruz or Trump.
Did Kasich find out he’s not on the VP shortlist?
I jest, but his run rested on the assumption that Trump vs Cruz was a stalemate at a convention, a cynical plan even at the time he won Ohio, given how far ahead they were.
Trump may still have won, but Kasich is responsible for dragging it out far longer than it had to be, while dividing the vote and resources at a critical point where Cruz may have had an advantage.
We will never know for certain.
Well, I voted for Kasich (in PA). Of course, now it’s the mootest of moot points, but I would just as easily have said Cruz was the one who should have dropped out. He had no chance of beating Hillary in any state that mattered. Against Cruz and Trump, I was glad Kasich was still on the ballot, it was good to vote for a normal human being.
There’s nothing NORMAL about Kasich. Normal people know that.
roc scssrs:
Cruz was way way ahead of Kasich. He had a real chance at that point not of reaching 1237, but of denying that total to Trump and throwing the convention into a situation where the delegates could have voted for someone else on the second ballot. Kasich had no chance of that.
And by the way, Cruz is a normal human being. I have no idea why you imply he isn’t. You may not like him, but he’s at least as normal as Kasich, who has his weird qualities, too.
vanderleun:
How many normal people do you know? 🙂
Eff John Kasich. Still think Trump might pick him for veep tho. He needs OH and JK is term limited.
That’s OK, I live in Ohio and I won’t support Kasich for anything. He is term limited out, and whatever he want to do, it better not be elected.
“Still think Trump might pick him for veep tho. He needs OH and JK is term limited.” KLSmith
That’s exactly how the GOPe slipped GHWB into the VP slot. Which was part of their strategy for handling Reagan. Limit the damage, reassert control as soon as possible by getting a sympathetic player into position to take over, when the ‘troublemaker’s’ term is over.
Does that mean he will support Hillary? Of course not, I hope. He is just being an a**.
I don’t know how to react at this point. Hillary and Bill are both criminals and Bill is a sexual predator to boot, but the GOPe is more comfortable with them than Trump? Yes, Trump is loud, has bad manners, uses the wrong fork, wipes his nose on the table cloth, and talks with his mouth full. But he’s also the chief of a multi-billion dollar company that he built with 22K employees and clearly knows how to be an executive and accomplish things.
But two criminals are better. They have “experience”. So what, look where the establishment expertise has got us, it’s great, isn’t?
Washington has completely lost its moral compass.
Paul in Boston: Where on that compass does Mr.Trump appear? Ya know…Really..? Seriously..?
Paul in Boston,
The GOPe could care less about Trump’s crudeness. It’s all about who best serves the oligarchy. Trump is a wild card and thus not predictable. Before he won the nomination, as I recall, Reagan was viewed by many within the GOPe as another, “who knows what he’ll do” ‘cowboy’. BTW, I do not mean to compare Trump to Reagan, other than in that specific.
On the other hand, Hillary is predictable and, some in the GOPe probably take the view that if elected, she may well be vulnerable in 2020. Better the devil you know, than the one you don’t…
King Baby/Infantile Defiance/Massively Malignant Narcissist All On HyperSteroids.
Or…
Left Wing Criminal Appetite Doing 4-More Years of Obama.
….in this vastly Huge & Dangerous Historical Moment.
I haven’t been this frustrated & flustered about an election since…what…1968..?
I am in complete disagreement with the idea that the GOPe (establishment, “elites”, etc.) would prefer Hillary Clinton, although I’m sure that some especially RINO-ish RINOs might (and Kasich could fall into that category). But the majority, like me, are repelled by both candidates for rather obvious and straightforward reasons.
Why is that so difficult to imagine?
They also think Trump is a sure loser and don’t want to be dragged down with him by supporting him.
This over-demonization of the admittedly-flawed mainstream GOP is part of what got us into this Trump mess in the first place.
Ace had a post or two on Kasich when the primary was approaching its end stages. While Kasich tries to present himself as a regular kind of guy that anyone can relate to, he’s apparently a petty, nasty, mean-spirited individual. He’s not at all the kind of person I’d trust anywhere near power.
And apparently at one point while in office, he tried to get the Fargo TV series banned.
1. Let’s consider some other scenarios. For those Republicans who do not support Trump, suppose Trump goes on to win the election in November. In such a case, he has shown he can do so without their support, and he doesn’t need them, and doesn’t owe them anything. And with the other possible outcome, if Trump loses the election in November, then all those Republicans and conservatives who did not support him may very well end up getting blamed for that defeat, and any setbacks that may occur during a 2017-2021 Democrat administration.
2. With that in mind, would it not be politically healthier for some to make at least a show of support, a pretense of enthusiasm? The backlash to a loss in November may be significant. And it’s not like we see the Democrats obsessing over all of Hillary’s flaws and shortcomings (because they never do that, and they never have the same level of criticism for their own members).
The problem with the narcisist label is that trump IS successful and more so than 99.99% of the planet…
if he wasnt and crowed at how great he was, that would be one thing…
oh.. and contrary to the leftist bs, people who are in business and cheat a lot, do not do so well and would have 100s of employees step forward to say something…
heck, even people as far back as nixon have come out to comment about hillary
you let me know what he has done that is not allowed or legal, which is the rules as they are defined to play by… yeah, some may not follow them and would say that they would never do what the rules allow, but thats not the same as breaking them.
oh… and remember, the same left that has tried to destroy many people with women, and sex claims, and more, have so far got nothing on him… so its all so far, fantasy that people want some movie star version of success…
they havent even leaked his taxes for all the crimes there, and of course most dont know about how to run their lives thorugh a revocable trust and so earn nothing personally.. all legal.. he didnt make those laws, but he plays by them.
and i think its funny that people say he is greedy, if he was greedy, not proud, he would have taken his name and company public, and would be many many times richer than his do it myself privately.
c’mon people give us some crimes, rapes, stories of impropriety, cheating, drug use, etc….
you are all crowing about things that dont matter except by opinion not substance… hair color? dont like his being proud of his own life? yeah, thats a bad one, we demand uber successful people bow down contrite and behave a certain way to us poverty stricken nobodies…
its completely unreal that we demand a level of polish thats been hiding really evil nasty people that been screwing us and thats what we want more of.
the term for what i feel watching this set of people on the verge of a one party communist state life with venezuela in the background – is gobsmacked.
by the way, if you never run any businesses, you never risk restructuring… if you run 560 subsidiaries and you only have 4 in 50 years, and thats bad? really? .7% of his businesses and thats bad?
i doubt that there is anyone on the planet that would make this bunch happy AND not be in the lefts pocket in some way, given their acclimation to the style and how they need that style to feel safer.
who gives a crap about Kasich and its fantasy to think that if he dropped out or others dropped out that cruz would have won… its a way of saying my man was a winner, but it was because of the plots against him.. just as maduro and chavez said, boliar socialism would work, but its all those plots against it.
well, i would guess that trump has had more nasty people try to take him down, have him arrested, break his balls and bank, and so on, for decades and as long as he was clean there was no way to touch him…
dont you guys get that?
there is only ONE thing the left fears, and thats someone too clean to control. havent you all figured that out yet? the only protection one has from them in the public open competitive sphere is if there is no spec of dirt large enough that matters enough for them to use… in fact, in case you havent noticed that they dont accept anyone in their circle unless they are dirty in some way and need them to make the press and others ignore that!!!
go ahead, list out the ten worst things you can think of on him, and then see if they realy matter.. they wont… being arrogant is nothing new among successful people, but at least we dont have a selfie of his but, or carlos danger images. we dont have him with bad billionaires who are pederasts and pedophiles… on and on..
i ask this question.
what will you guys do if he actually gets in and does a great job? what if he doesnt turn into hitler like reagan was hitler, like bush was hitler? what if he really does great?
then what? you think your world is rocked now and your moorings are loose… if that happens, then what will you do? [and if he is not good, he isnt any worse than the leftists trying to collapse the state with 19 trillion in debt and growing… ]
I am in complete disagreement with the idea that the GOPe (establishment, “elites”, etc.) would prefer Hillary Clinton
why not? with her in office they would do well and make lots of $$$… they can make deals and so on…
good cop bad cop they are both cops.
and cops would rather side with their own bad than with anothers good that isnt on their side.
Artfldgr:
I didn’t say it was impossible. So of course you (or I, or anyone) can think of some reasoning that would seem to justify the idea that the GOPe preferred Hillary as president. That doesn’t mean it’s the case.
In addition, I said I assume it is true of some of them, but not the majority. That represents my opinion, a conclusion I’ve come to from watching them carefully for well over a decade.
Its clear that most favor image over substance
that they prefer the actor and the con man with a lot of self control that can play you, to the boorish person who is themselves and cant do that.
just think if lincoln was running for office today
too freaking ugly to win, eh?
harding had a love child
jefferson called adams a hermaphodite
adams called jefferson a bastard child of mullato
The first president known to have had an illegitimate child was Thomas Jefferson (and may have fathered six)
kennedy had a wonderful wife and cheated on her constantly
lets not even mention clintons actions
John Tyler also had a illigitimate child
and grover clevland sexually assaulted a woman who then gave birth to another child
Cleveland escorted Halpin back to her room at a downtown boarding house. What happened next, according to Halpin’s affidavit, would in another era be classified as date rape. Cleveland sexually assaulted her “[b]y use of force and violence and without my consent,” Halpin reported, adding that when she threatened to notify the authorities, Cleveland “told me he was determined to ruin me if it cost him $10,000, if he was hanged by the neck for it. I then and there told him that I never wanted to see him again [and] commanded him to leave my room, which he did.”
Six weeks later, Maria became aware that she was pregnant.
its only fantasy and lack of knowlege that lets people pretend that whats going on is bad, its actually a lot better than a ton of things i can bring up from knowing…
Yankee:
Of course, if they thought Trump could win, it would make at least pragmatic sense to go against their distaste for him and support him. But you are not taking into consideration the fact that all signs point to a huge Trump defeat. Whether that is correct or not in terms of predicting the future, it’s all they have to go on, and if they are playing the odds they think he will go down to a huge defeat and they don’t want to be on record as supporting him and go down with him.
And believe me, if Trump loses, they will be blamed no matter what they did or said. If they did support him, it wasn’t enough. If they did campaign for him, it wasn’t with enough vim and vigor.
It may well be that the Republicans and conservatives will have trouble, issues, and fallout no matter what they do. In such a case, and not just with this election, but with any other endeavor, it is better to take a positive approach.
Besides, this is what Trump had to say after the terrorist attack in Orlando:
http://time.com/4367120/orlando-shooting-donald-trump-transcript/
That speech was a home run, the sign of a real leader, an indication that this man is in touch with the most significant issues of the day. Now is not the time to be lukewarm or to sit on one’s hands.
None of the things people are talking about have any actual bearing on the outcome of whether a person would be a great leader or a bad one!!! in fact, we are ROTTEN judges of people. and you can read a lot in the psych papers about that and how our desire for image to match imagination doesnt work out!!
we project more than we inspect
and you guys dont tell the difference between someone who is totally using psychology to appear as what you want, and hate people that dont cater to you that way!!!
Few people knew that the country’s thirty-second President was paralyzed. Most knew that he’d had polio, but they remained unaware that he could not walk.
neo,
‘I am in complete disagreement with the idea that the GOPe (establishment, “elites”, etc.) would prefer Hillary Clinton”
I did say “or faction thereof”, which you just agreed with…
“the majority, like me, are repelled by both candidates for rather obvious and straightforward reasons. Why is that so difficult to imagine?”
Giving Obama more than he asked for in the Omnibus bill and the majority of the Republican congress increasing Muslim migration argues otherwise, at least as far as being repelled by Hillary.
“This over-demonization of the admittedly-flawed mainstream GOP is part of what got us into this Trump mess in the first place.”
Is it “over-demonization”? And, IF a factor, it is a decidedly smaller one that the betrayal of the GOPs base. Nor is it a ‘flaw’, it is an intentional betrayal.
“what will you guys do if he (Trump) actually gets in and does a great job?” – Artfldgrs
I would be elated, blissful, euphoric, ecstatic that I was ENTIRELY wrong about his personality, his plans, his understanding, and his principles, if he were to do a solid four years of a “great job”.
It would be worthy of falling down on my knees and being enormously thankful (hint: not to Trump).
But, realistically, aside from a concern of turning Authoritarian (maybe, maybe not – he’s too comfortable talking like he could be), he will be rather erratic and unpredictable, creating a high level of uncertainty that, itself, would have consequences, domestic and foreign. He’s a huge gamble into the unknown.
Question back: What if he does turn Authoritarian, what would you do?
Yankee – I don’t buy it. If the GOP sucks up to Trump and he wins, he’s not going to be grateful. If they suck up to him and he loses, he’s going to blame them anyway. But what if we confront him, and he turns out to have no political legs at all?
Let the Trumpers cry themselves out and go to sleep. They’ll never have a candidate be this successful again. This is their high-water mark. He’s an absurd old man with no political convictions and a lot of Twitter followers. What is going to be his lasting political impact? Some improvement in immigration law, and primary reform to prevent someone like him from coming along again. And a general sense of embarrassment. I might just be whistling in the graveyard here, but on the other hand, there actually isn’t anything to be afraid of in a graveyard. I say we flip him off and lose one election, rather than embrace him and lose our principles – and a lot more elections.
Nick:
Well stated.
Besides, what does gratitude look like from a guy whose only claim to fame is insulting people? Do you hear a lot of Trump supporters talking about how much they admire Christie? Is Huckabee going to carry much influence in the new administration? And that’s just on the political side. On the policy side, Trump’s friendship is worthless because he doesn’t understand policy. He really thought he was currying favor when he said that women who seek abortions should serve jail time. He probably still doesn’t understand why he got resistance when he promised to kill civilians.
Is Donald Trump’s Endgame the Launch of Trump News?:
So, the GOP loses, but The Donald still ends up a “winner”.
yes, no named sources from a dubious publication, I do recall during the debates, kasich was one of those, who ticked off many in the focus groups,
“what will you guys do if he (Trump) actually gets in and does a great job?” — Artfldgrs
Art has constantly complained about being harassed by Leftists or feminists at his University work slot. Not once, have I seen him write that a “great President that does a great job” at his university, would fix his problems there. Yet that’s the kind of mentality brought to politics, several layers and several orders of magnitude, higher than the university job level.
If Trump wants to make an impact on the Leftist alliance, Trump has to get dirty and do the dirty work of slamming an iron fist into the Left’s face and head, hurting the Left. That’s not something people like Art can tolerate, they think this is a game of pacifism where you talk to people, not a war.
What is going to be his lasting political impact?
Similar to the impact Soros had when he funded his astro turf internet groups.
lets remember who managed kasich, john weaver, who slimed
mccain in that lobbyist story, because he was dismissed,
Yankee,
That speech by Trump was masterful and Presidential. I just wish I knew whether it came from him or a political speechwriter with Trump’s advisers prevailing upon him to deliver it. I fear that Trump is deep down, as many believe him to be. But I don’t discount the possibility that there is much more to Trump, of a positive nature, than his detractors imagine. I ocasionally see hints of that being the case but nothing definitive.
I am convinced that Hillary leads to a darker future than Trump, even if he turns out to be a disaster.
Geoffrey Britain (and Artfldgr):
I see not a single hint of it. Not one. But if he surprises me and is able to (a) get elected, and (b) do a decent job as president, I’d be both surprised and delighted.
Artfldgr; Big Maq:
Artfldgr posed a question:
What an odd question. First of all, who here is saying Trump will “turn into Hitler”? No one. I have said that Trump has tyrannical impulses but is NOT Hitler, although some of the attraction to him as strong man who will “fix” things and is not a regular politician is part of a similar impulse as the impulse that attracted some Germans to Hitler way at the beginning (here’s the post, if you want to refresh your memory).
So, with this “Hitler” thing, you’ve set up a strawman.
In addition, your question implies that we are small, petty, narcissistic people who care more about being right than about the future of our country and the world. I certainly hope that’s not what you mean to imply, but your question most definitely implies it.
For the actual answer, I’m with Big Maq, who wrote:
Why wouldn’t we be happy? Because it meant we were wrong? Do you really think we’d rather be right and have the country go down the tubes? Yes, it’s tough being wrong, but you know what? I’d rather have been wrong and have things turn out much better than expected than be right in this instance.
What I really think is that Trump will not win, so I’ll never get to the point of discovering whether I”m right or wrong about what kind of president he would be.
But if he does get elected and turn out to be just fine as president, or even good or even “great,” I predict that I would be happy for the country. And I even would be at peace with my more dire predictions, because they are most definitely warranted. I have evaluated the man and the evidence before me and have come to the conclusions about him that I’ve documented on this blog. Right or wrong in the end, I know why I’m saying what I’m saying, and I know on what my judgment is based.
Another bombshell:
from the Limbaugh website, June 16; emphases mine.
“He really thought he was currying favor when he said that women who seek abortions should serve jail time. He probably still doesn’t understand why he got resistance when he promised to kill civilians.” – Nick
Great examples.
It is this kind of thinking and reaction (on Trump’s part) that creates major uncertainty. A significant part of our economic malaise is due to Regime Uncertainty (e.g. “you didn’t build that”, “boot on neck of BP”), IMHO. Trump would deliver that on steroids (not because he intends to be business unfriendly like Obama, but it is the rest of the package and behavior he presents).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Policy_uncertainty
http://www.independent.org/publications/tir/article.asp?a=430
It is this kind of thinking that may cause us to accidentally stumble into a crisis. Obama’s “Red Line” was bad enough (on many levels), but what if a shoot from the hip Trump answer to some international issue throws down a challenge that puts us on the precipice of a major war?
Having already signaled he has no interest in the US being the “world’s policeman” (without being “paid”), he opens the door to scenarios that even Obama didn’t need to face – think Iraq troop withdrawal, but on a global scale.
Trump is a huge, risky, bet the farm, gamble.
“similar impulse as the impulse that attracted some Germans to Hitler way at the beginning” – Neo
Right. Having used the “Wiemar” as a point of comparison in past comments, folks immediately assume it is about “Hitler”, when it is really about the attitudes and political conditions that led to allowing a Hitler to emerge.
Only, our conditions in no way are as dire as they had (i.e. the US is still by far the greatest country to be living in), and folks today are much better educated and informed (i.e. we have far less excuse to not understand the consequences of our choices).
The “burn it all down” crowd are willing to risk far more than those German citizens, in the hopes to fix something that is not nearly as “broken”.
I do think that there are any number of GOPe types who would find a Hillary presidency acceptable. These types spent forty years or so in the minority until Gingrich took the House.
And there is no way in which a Hillary win would be good for conservatives, Republicans or the country, just like there is nothing good to come out of eight years of Obama.
Nonetheless, this fall it’s Trump or Hillary. Trump is deeply flawed, inarticulate and making rookie mistakes. He is very aggressive though. Cruz would have been oh so much better. It is bad enough to have had the very inarticulate Bush W. but this is where we are.
As Rumsfeld said “you go to war with the army you have not what you would like”.
Well, this is the internet. People make Hitler analogies about everything. Bringing up the Wiemar Republic, you’ve got to expect people to make that leap.
Ryan floated taking a President Trump to court if he tried to implement such a ban or some of his other controversial proposals unilaterally. “I would sue any president that exceeds his or her powers,” Ryan said in a back-and-forth about Trump’s claims that he could implement a Muslim ban or build a Mexican border wall
Police arrested an illegal Middle Eastern woman in a Luna County, New Mexico, during a routine traffic stop by a deputy sheriff. The woman had a copy of the region’s gas pipeline plans in her car according to law enforcement officers. Local authorities notified the U.S. Border Patrol, FBI and Joint Terrorism Task Force officials, who are investigating the case. Law enforcement verified that the gas pipeline plans included the Deming region, a city located about 35 miles north of the Mexican border and 60 miles west of Las Cruces, population about 15,000.
Big Maq –
Question back: What if he does turn Authoritarian, what would you do?
——————
I suspect that if Trump won the election and turned into an authoritarian disaster, his supporters would console themselves by insisting that no matter how bad Trump is, Hillary would have been worse.
And then changing the subject to the latest put down by Trump about the media.
Junior–I suspect that if Trump won the election and turned into an authoritarian disaster, the other 2 branches of government would rediscover and act on their historical role for existence. Something we haven’t seen for the last 8 years. (Obamacare–passed by Congress “as not a tax”; upheld by the Supreme Court “as a tax”.) I state this as a Cruz supporter who will vote against Hillary NO MATTER WHAT. I choose to consider the situation as though it was my son that died in Benghazi.
Neo:
This over-demonization of the admittedly-flawed mainstream GOP is part of what got us into this Trump mess in the first place.
Truth.
Art – regarding your question about what if Trump does win and is awesome? I share the sentiments of those who answered above. I’ll be THRILLED if he becomes President and does a great (or even a not disastrous) job. But I have to weigh the probabilities based upon the Trump we now see, not hopes for a new Trump that have now foundation in reality or experience.
You asked for things about Trump that are significant (not just surfacey) reasons to not support him. There have been reams of comments in this space that have detailed those out, but I can summarize my issues:
– He has shown no tendency toward limiting executive power. I believe in a limited government, good checks and balances, and he doesn’t appear to understand that. Very dangerous.
– He promised to have our military commit war crimes. I don’t believe we should have a military that commits war crimes, and I therefore don’t think he should ever be given a military
– He has defended Planned Parenthood. I am pro-life and believe abortion to be a great wrong perpetrated on our most vulnerable and so can’t support him. I also don’t believe he is really pro-life, since he’s been pro-choice for most of his life
– He believes government can take people’s property without due process. I realize eminent domain is needed in certain cases, but he’s far too much a fan of that.
– He has changed his stances on any number of policies. While I appreciate a mind that can take in nuanced arguments and alter a stance, he doesn’t appear to have any core convictions except for what’s best for Trump. As a conservative, I want a leader who adheres to principled conservatism, realizing that he or she will have to be able to compromise in the real world.
– He has, over and over and over, lied about things big and small. I realize politicians spin, but they have to have some bedrock honesty for me to support them.
– I know there is a great appeal for the outsider these days, but he hasn’t shown any sign of really understanding how our government works. The President needs to understand the constitution because he is sworn to uphold it. Now, more than ever, we need a president who understands the constitution. He doesn’t, so I can’t support him.
– He lacks impulse control, based upon his tweets and communications and speeches. He devolves into insults and rash statements quickly. When you’re the POTUS the economy and world security situation can react quickly and disastrously to thoughtless comments. What we need is some stability, wisdom and careful and thoughtful communication. He hasn’t shown skills for any of those. A person without impulse control should not be given a military or nuclear weapons. Period.
– I think that he actually has a narcissistic mental disorder. Some people seem to think this is cute. I think it’s scary as hell in a person who has a military and nuclear weapons.
– Like most narcissists, he is merciless. While we all want a tough president, a man without mercy is very dangerous. A bully’s effect on others is amplified by his power – a playground bully can only torment so many people. A bully with nuclear weapons and a military and the entire regulatory and enforcement apparatus of the US executive branch is incalculably dangerous.
– I don’t know if he personally is a racist, but he espouses racist policies and betrays a tendency to engage in racist overgeneralizations. I’m sick of our country being split into thousands of bickering subgroups. I want a confident conservatism that works to sell those immigrating, plus minority groups within our country, on a vision of limited government, responsibility, limitless possibilities, along with a reasonable and sane social safety net. Trump does not appear to have the skills to bring people together. He’s currently pushing away most of the people he will need to win, either because he is so arrogant as to think he won’t need people like me to win, or because he doesn’t really want to win. Either way, it’s a disaster.
– I don’t expect our President to be a saint, but I do look for a moral core. A serial adulterer who brags about cheating on his wives is a man who can’t keep promises. We need a President our children can look up to
– I want a boring president who does his or her job with wisdom, economy and low fanfare. Trump, like Obama, has a cult of personality and I think that’s a really destructive pattern.
I’ve got more. These may not be compelling arguments to you. It’s unfortunate almost beyond expressing that neither Trump or HRC are fit for the presidency, but I can’t support him even if I know she’ll most likely be POTUS. I can’t do it.
Well, there is absolutely NO WAY I could ever in my life vote for Hillary – a criminal and a traitor. So there we are.
“Well, this is the internet. People make Hitler analogies about everything. Bringing up the Wiemar Republic, you’ve got to expect people to make that leap.” – Nick
Yes, I do recognize that, and the Godwin’s Law aspect, though I try to be careful to identify what aspects are comparable.
But, if there were a better example, that folks might be familiar with, that talks about how, even in a democracy, people can risk throwing it all away, I don’t know of it.
In Neo’s case, she outlined the context in much greater detail, and still that “confusion” happens.
“I suspect that if Trump won the election and turned into an authoritarian disaster, his supporters would console themselves by insisting that no matter how bad Trump is, Hillary would have been worse.” – junior
I fear there are hardcore Trump supporters that for whom a Trump win would be a license to take it further.
What you say is perhaps true of the “reluctant” Trump folks here. Many truly believe that Marxism is inevitable in the next four years with Clinton.
@Bill
You forgot to add at the end of your post.
(Drops Mike!)
Trump is a huge risk, no doubt about it. Clinton would be rotten, but at least we have a much better sense of the bounds of how bad that gets to be.
If there is a chance at the convention to “legitimately” (within the rules) change nominees, I’m all for it. I think that might simply mean a lot of no shows on the first ballot. We will know in one month, which I suspect what folks are waiting for before deciding.
Bill – I would never vote for Trump. But the people who would are going to look over your list of reasons and see that Clinton is equally guilty of nearly all of them. What would be your response?
Nick,
My response would be that I’m not able to vote for HRC either.
“But the people who would are going to look over your list of reasons and see that Clinton is equally guilty of nearly all of them. What would be your response?” – Nick
Point taken. But there is a difference in the quality and quantity, and, in total, what they lead to.
Ultimately it comes back to Trump being an extremely risky candidate, who is likely just as damaging to our country as Clinton might be, if not more… and Bill’s points support a few key ideas regarding this…
1) The unpredictability of just what Trump will do.
2) That Trump comes too close to Authoritarianism, not demonstrating any commitment to limited Presidential powers, and limited government.
3) The boundaries of what Trump is capable of doing (intentionally or accidentally) are rather wide, given how he reacts poorly at a personal level, and is prone to going to extremes.
4) Trump will (has) up the ante on the divisiveness in this country (seemingly beyond even where the left has taken it) – and, by association, conservatism with this.
I hope Bill agrees, and I’m not reading too much out of his prose.