The meaning of Bin Laden’s death
Bin Laden’s death, real as it is, is basically symbolic. Its message is that the US will not relent in its pursuit of those who would perpetrate terrorism against its citizens. Unfortunately, that message has been negated and attenuated by many competing and/or opposing ones over the years that indicate the US is lacking in that same resolve.
Reaction seems more muted than it would have been had this happened years ago. Far too much has transpired since, and Bin Laden himself had kept such a low profile that it seemed he was nearly dead already (or mostly dead, a la “The Princess Bride”).
Who were the people celebrating last night in Times Square and in front of the White House? They looked very young, and if you do the math they were probably only children at the time of the 9/11 attack. It seemed like a sports crowd after a Superbowl victory. Perhaps they were just happy that we finally can declare a win.
I can’t recall another time when America celebrated the death of a single person, even a vicious enemy. Comparisons have been made with the death of Hitler, but there’s really no comparison whatsoever. Hitler’s death was overshadowed by a much larger simultaneous event: the end of the European theater of WWII.
Intentional killer of innocents though Bin Laden was, his murder toll was miniscule compared to that of the German leader. What’s more, Hitler was a suicide. He killed himself because Germany had been soundly defeated in a lengthy and total war; the Nazis weren’t defeated because he killed himself. And unlike the case with Islamic terrorism, Nazism was not embedded in a larger philosophy or belief system that has a life of its own.
There is one similarity to the fate of the Reich’s leaders, however: their burial. Although—unlike Bin Laden—they were tried in the military tribunals known as the Nuremberg trials, and those who were sentenced to death were executed and their bodies cremated, their ashes were dumped in the Isar River in Munich. The Allies were cognizant of the fact that an actual gravesite would provide a shrine for followers, and they were determined that nothing of the sort would happen. Thus, the water burial. No doubt the same reasoning has dictated Bin Laden’s burial at sea.
Who were the “people” celebrating? They are dragon brood, the intended product of those who hate America and our Constitution. The incongruity of their joy with their support for the al Qaeda Seven points to another motive: joy for their king, Obama.
King Obama promises to take care of them. His life is their life.
This is the strength and weakness of the Obama regime. The head is everything.
The meaning of Bin Laden’s death: Diversion. King Obama was being threatened. Watch Amy’s link via the last post. King Obama was worried and he needed (was he ever desperate) for worship.
Produce the academic records, Obama.
Let’s get back on that because that’s the real motive here.
Hopefully bin Laden was cremated with 100 pounds of bacon before being dumped into the sea.
Actually, I’m not sure that wouldn’t be a good idea for every terrorist that’s killed. It may actually work as a deterrent that outweighs the shrieking of some in the Muslim world and the Western Left.
Ritchie,
I wouldn’t waste good bacon on him. Surely, we could fing a farmer who would donate a barrel of pig excrement to serve as a coffin.
I don’t think the reaction was muted enough. We needed to get the SOB. We got the SOB. But celebrating just raises his importance to the rest of the world. Better to simply enjoy a quiet beer, toast the military people who got it done, and move on with the business of life.
Obama’s image is being threatened. The attack is having effect. The economy is having effect. Obamaism is failing. The one defense Obama doesn’t have is the truth. He has to respond with deception and diversion. The machine has joyfully sprung into action. Notice, however, the inordinate amount of praise and the overreaching statements. There will be no 2012 election. It’s over. Obama has spoken.
This stupid crap stinks and I’m going to do what all people do with crap: flush it down the toilet.
That’ll do just fine expat.
I don’t have a problem with the ‘burial-at-sea’ part, but couldn’t that have been done just as easily in the Hudson River or the Potomac?
Curtis, the people celebrating were OFA astroturf.
Another meaning of Osama’s death: Gitmo and Bush were right. You know who should be pointed to and exonerated: John Woo.
Give Obama his bottle. Baby did a good thing. Let’s see baby do something right on the economy!
The other side is showing a very suspect and rather disgusting show of joy. I call it “grasping at straws” and it a week or so this little smear of pablum will have left a hangover and poor baby will need more. Point is, baby is pretty much played out his hand too early. By election time the value of the dollar, the level of unemployment, the rise of inflation–need I say more.
I was 11 years old on 9/11. The people celebrating in front of the White House, in Times Square, on Boston Common, etc. were my peers. Liberals and conservatives, Americans and non-Americans. We have been waiting for as far as we can remember for this son of a bitch to get shot in the head, and now he has. It has very less to do with celebrating an “Obama victory” as with celebrating the death of the bogeyman who’s been hanging around for our whole lives.
As a person whose formative years were defined by 9/11, I don’t think anyone should underestimate the emotional impact this has on my generation. Osama Bin Laden has been lurking around for as far back as we can remember. His death is like lifting an emotional weight off of our shoulders. This is, of course, totally irrational, because OBL’s dead might not even affect Al-Qaeda’s day-to-day operations significantly, but it is what it is.
Accusing the people celebrating of being Obama shills is, frankly, offensive. That would be like accusing people born in 1932 of being Eisenhower shills if Hitler had escaped and was caught and killed in 1954. Everyone hated Hitler and everyone hated Osama Bin Laden. Call us overexcited children if you want, but I think laying any political weight to the celebrations is overreaching.
If they do terrorist burials at sea, then make sure it’s off of a carrier– there’s a lot of bacon made every morning for the chow hall, lots of junk grease to be used.
No wasted bacon!
Bryan –
I think a lot of folks are calling the WH rally a fraud because of the professionally printed banners.
Being in bootcamp when 9/11 happened, I’m about a generation ahead of you– but I’ll join you in being sick of the accusations against EVERYONE that is happy about this.
I wish I could be celebrating– mostly, I’m just glad one threat is out of the way, on to the next threat.
I’m not so sure we should be too hard on the college kids. I know my two realized the significance of the event especially since most of their understanding of world events has been defined by 9/11 and neither of them credit the killing of Osama to Obama (creepy similarity) rather… Go Navy!
My kids were 9 & 11 on 9/11 and remember the attacks vividly. Living near the train line
in NJ meant our community was directly affected by 9/11 and we personally know people who where there and who died. Plus, the D.C. colleges have a lot of students from the mid-Atlantic and Northeast regions attending – the area of the country that was
attacked and where the planes originated.
One last thought about the college kids; America has been at war for more than half their lives because of Osama Bin Laden. In the black & white thinking of youth… isn’t this what we’ve been fighting for.
Bryan, if what you say it true (and I most certainly do not believe it is other than for a few) then I pity your generation.
An emotional weight off your shoulders! What kind of puny character do you have?
Wow. Again, pity if this were true because Osama was chased down, isolated, enervated, and reduced to nothing. Here’s what Nancy Pelosi said about him five years ago:
[E]ven if [Osama bin Laden] is caught tomorrow, it is five years too late. He has done more damage the longer he has been out there. But, in fact, the damage that he has done … is done. And even to capture him now I don’t think makes us any safer.
Besides, you’re not acting on your own. You’re pawns and haven’t figured that out or, which is as likely, have found a good reason to have a beer party on Monday. Good for you. Stay out of politics until you’ve lived a little.
Funny how, all of sudden, people are speaking of war and terror. Weren’t these two words banned by the Obama regime? Does the OFA not follow his directives? And now, we find out how traumatized our young were and how grateful to their savior, their warrior, Obama!
Again, don’t shovel me shit and call it sugar, sunshine.
Listen, I was trying to give my perspective as someone who can relate to the people celebrating, as someone who was a child on 9/11. Trauma (and I think most Americans would consider 9/11 traumatic) has lasting effects on children.
I’m not going to pretend that Obama is not still popular among the people celebrating, or that Obama might be given some of the credit. But my opinion is that, for MOST people, the celebration was about the death of the bastard who’s been haunting us since childhood. Who killed him is mostly irrelevant.
If you want to accuse my generation of moral weakness and of being Obama shills, fine. But I think that that accusation is wrong.
Bryan, fess up. You’re not a 19 year old kid. You’re a 19 year old OFA troll. Probably not 19, either.
When I was 19, I couldn’t be killed. I feared nothing except what my peers thought. I certainly did not fear nuclear war, my generation’s bug a boo.
Your writing skills give you away. Unfortunately, that’s the truth because the writing abilities of your generation is terrible. I’ve graded many of your peer’s papers and they are pretty ugly.
“It is what it is?” What 19 year old thinks like that!
If you are bright enough to write as well as you do, and were as young as 19, you’d be writing in agreement with me.
“It is what it is?” What 19 year old thinks like that!
For starters, this one did.
Starting about three years earlier, in fact.
Just because a lot of the current crop of college kids can’t write their way out of a paper bag, don’t assume that nobody is able to do so. There are a decent number of classically good college English teachers who couldn’t take the college garbage and went to teach high schoolers instead.
Bryan, you are absolutely right. I have seen video of young people celebrating, and their emotions were genuine. Asroturf does not look this way. Even I, being adult, and foreigner, was shocked in this fateful day ten years ago, feeling that the very pillars of the world civilization were seriously damaged. How much more acute this trauma must have been for 8-9 years old kids in New York? They grew under shade of a greatest crime in their lives unpunished, so what other reaction one can expect from them?
Congratulations, Foxfier, but you’re missing the point: you’re weird or were weird. Same with Bryan.
Teenagers don’t think stoically. They are all fire and easily manipulated. His generation, for the most part, didn’t give a rats ass about Osama. Unless he was in a video game.
Let’s not lose sight of what’s going on here: Obama is vulgarly co-opting credit. It stinks. It is full of hypocrisy and desperation.
Fine. I’ll let the nuances stand for the exceptions that are Bryan, but let’s keep the pressure on. Show the academic records, President Obama, and please explain how your trillion dollar debts have saved America.
Curtis: I’m 21. I said I was 11 on 9/11, which was in 2001. Simple math says I must be either 20 (if my birthday were after September 11) or 21 (if my birthday were before September 11).
Thanks for the compliment on my writing abilities. And having sat through enough painful peer-editing sessions of my own, I can also attest to the dearth of writing skill among my peers. You’re spot on, and it’s a shame.
I do agree with you that Osama’s capture comes a few years and a couple thousand corpses too late. I merely objected to the assertion that my peers were celebrating on behalf of Obama, because I think the death of a lifelong boogeyman is a much more powerful motivator for celebration.
Ignore my math in the previous post. I can do calculus, but dates really screw me up. I was born in early 1990 and am now 21. I can’t really provide proof, so you’ll have to take my word for it.
Congratulations, Foxfier, but you’re missing the point: you’re weird or were weird.
*eyeroll* Golly, there’s a shock. Something I’ve never heard before… oh, wait, that’s exactly why I became someone who accepted what will be, will be.
Teenagers don’t think stoically. They are all fire and easily manipulated. His generation, for the most part, didn’t give a rats ass about Osama. Unless he was in a video game.
His generation? BS. I know 30 year olds who fit your profile. Heck, I’m related to several. It’s been “normal” (or popular, or promoted– hard to get good data) to be ignorant, unable to write, highly vulnerable to emotional manipulation… shallow.
I’m pretty sure it wasn’t new with the generation before me, either. Seems to have become popular in the late fifties and early sixties, and just become more obvious over time.
Unpunished?
How do you figure?
His whole life reduced to that of a criminal on the run. His financial holdings confiscated. His life, forever, threatened. A country invaded so as to find and kill him.
Unpunished?
Not hardly.
Good show, Bryan.
You give more credence to your view by showing yourself to be rational and reasonable. And you are probably very analytical and a reader and much more prone, than your peers, to anxiety.
I remember about the time that the movie, “Little man Tate,” came on (with Jode Foster) that there was a documentary about this little fellow with a huge IQ and the little guy was just full of anxiety. Higher intelligence sometimes brings that.
I don’t think the whole scene exists of teenagers of your particular nature. Is it reasonable for you to reason from yourself to the whole?
Bryan wrote: As a person whose formative years were defined by 9/11, I don’t think anyone should underestimate the emotional impact this has on my generation. Osama Bin Laden has been lurking around for as far back as we can remember. His death is like lifting an emotional weight off of our shoulders.
My eldest daughter is 22 and she would say the same thing. She has had high school friends go to Afghanistan. She knows that her father’s job and our lives were changed, and not in a good way, by the events of that day. She has felt pretty helpless and angry, I think, when confronted with the magnitude of that evil. I don’t think she went out in the streets to celebrate, but she did want to call me and talk about it.
I remember what made her most upset that day: we were watching clips of the news together, and had seen death and destruction loop several times, and then they showed Palestinian children cheering and celebrating in the streets. She literally cried out, in grief, “How could they do that? Why do they hate us?”
I can’t remember what I said, but I doubt it was a very satisfactory answer.
Bryan – look, just give us the long form and we’ll believe you.
Kolnai: Can’t, the Kenyan authorities won’t release my birth certificate.
“” I was trying to give my perspective as someone who can relate to the people celebrating””
Bryan
I’ll ask you consider it all from a different perspective. Just simply note the million fold difference in scale of human suffering if Obama’s master plans come to fruition like Osama’s did. We’re talking a third world nation status for your children with human suffering that’ll make highjacked planes running into office buildings appear on page C-3 of the newspaper if you could find one.
Just give us the long form and we’ll believe you?
How do you know Bryan isn’t a troll? Writes just like a “reasonable” troll.
Of all the things you could have said, Kolnai, and you use that one! Denigrate the very people who stood on principle. Help establish the narrative which will allow Obama to go unchallenged because “Hey, just give us the long form.”
Be a dupe.
Not me. The event is being manipulated and it is disgusting.
Stephen Hunter writes:
Any joy one might feel in the intelligence of our analysts and the bravery of our door kickers was significantly diminished by Obama’s malignant narcissism. The first part of the announcement, evoking 9/11, was vulgarly overwritten as per Obama’s view of himself as some kind of gifted orator. The adjective bloated compote was unworthy of the subject, banal and self-indulgent.
See:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2011/05/028948.php
And to use OUR kids, like they did in Vietnam, is disgusting too. I’ve got a 19 year old daughter, nephews that are 22 and 18. No trauma there. None. Not a spic. Now we are on the opposite coast. Maybe that matters. Maybe that’s the whole thing here. But I doubt it. What I smell is POLITICIZATION!
Bryan and Foxier are right. Why don’t you man up, Curt, and stand corrected.
People are mortal and make mistakes all the time. Whether they are right concerning an analysis of the greater body of humanity or not, is often indistinctly recognized and determined. But the chances of being right don’t go up when you make simple mistakes interacting with one person. It goes down.
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/1896
This article may be of interest to those who wish to seek more understanding of psychological trauma. It is not as simple nor as harmless as popular opinion may wish.
My own assessment is that Curtis cannot control his disgust and hate of Obama to objectively analyze the motivations and experiences of other people he sees as the Other. There’s really no point in people who cannot control their emotions, talking about how younger people are too easily traumatized, showing fake emotions, or being part of astroturf Obamanation cults. Psychologists, as Neo I believe is well familiar with, requires psychoanalysts of their own. For dealing with other people’s phobias and neuroses automatically starts transferring that disease through infectious vectors.
Yes, Obama is a mad dog. Which is why it’s actually worse for one’s mental health the more we are exposed to him. That doesn’t mean all our actions or beliefs about Obama are justified or wrong. It simply means that things have changed and adaptation is warranted.
Events such as Pearl Harbor, WWII, have had a dramatic impact on those still growing up. Their core identity while in their teens are still unformed. Traumatic, emotional, or highly stressful events during their formative years go a long way towards determining their personality and coping skills.
There are those who survived the attack on Pearl Harbor who still refuse to shake the hands of Japanese pilots who went to Pearl Harbor’s memorial. It’s been decades since then, yet old wounds and traumas do not heal as easily as psychoanalysts on the Left would like us to believe. Hassan was a doctor, a psychologist even, and look how messed up he was at Ft. Hood.
I won’t lose to anyone else in hating the Left. I still remember their old anti-war slogan they threw in our face years ago, VIOLENCE DOESN’T SOLVE ANYTHING. Yet they’ll still crow about their “victory” even now.
It’s not enough to hate the Left and their evil. You must also be in control of that emotion, not the other way around. I’m not like Art in his views on how easy it is to recognize communist insurgencies, but I started seeing and accepting the evil of the Left a few years before others did. For many, 2008-11 was proof enough for them. For me, 2003-2006 was more than enough.
Both Bryan and Fox (weren’t you the same one at Villainous Company on Japanese VNs?) have figured out that regardless of the problems everyone else in their generation has, their best bet to become better is to shape and change themselves through dedication and simply called “work”. Work is defined, for those on the Left that do not know, as getting things done, rather than just talking about getting it done.
Regardless, it will be much harder to use Leftist propaganda to convince the youth that “violence never solved anything”. Given their personal experiences, violence did in fact solve a lot of things.
Nobody has ever accused me of being too apathetic in being brief nor evading/stating what I thought, so I’ll write it here.
Given the conduct of Curtis, Bryan, Fox and their reactions to each other, I believe Curtis is behaving with the least maturity of all 3.
What this means, I don’t really care, but it’s simply a byproduct of logical deduction on the data.
SteveH – I don’t want Obama to be reelected. I regret that my first vote was for him, in a silly adolescent sense that voting for someone because of his race was “historic.” I think that his policies have soiled relations between our allies and strengthened our enemies. I am having difficulty describing how bad a possible second Obama term, because I can already easily apply “calamitous,” “disastrous,” or “catastrophically awful” to this one.
But since I truly do not believe, because of my experience and what I have gleaned from speaking to my peers, that the spontaneous celebrations were on behalf of Obama, rather a reflection of relief and happiness on the death of a lifelong foe, I don’t think any of that is relevant to this particular event. A celebration on the death of Osama is not a celebration of behalf of Obama. Moreover, most of the people celebrating probably would have voted for Obama again anyway even if he didn’t capture Osama, so their celebration wouldn’t indicate any huge political shift even if the celebrations had been political in nature.
Amy – It’s good that you and your daughter talk about it. I didn’t really have a conversation with my mother about it until a couple of months ago.
Curtis – If I am a subtle troll (and I assure you I am not), then you are a most unsubtle one.
Ymarsakar –
weren’t you the same one at Villainous Company on Japanese VNs
Probably, yes. I can’t remember any other fox themed name over there, and I seem to remember seeing you there too! (Guessing you meant to type a G there? The conversation on “dating games” comes to mind.)
WOW. That’t the most cogent thing you have ever written, Ymarsaker! I am gratified that you have written so well and against me despite not really caring.
I’m an old meanie. Everyone stick out your tongue at Curtis. He’s not nice.
And if I were right and Bryan were a troll?
Give me a break because I know most of the people reading agree with me but they are not the type to write in. More like the silent strong type.
You cry babies whining about your traumas. Who does that? The ones being manipulated by the Democrats, the progressive counselors, the community activists. You have been well schooled and are setting forth the data you were programmed with. Always the victim. Find a way to always be the victim.
“My own assessment is that Curtis cannot control his disgust and hate of Obama to objectively analyze the motivations and experiences of other people he sees as the Other.”
In a time of war, should I?
Curtis – truce! I was merely trying to inject some levity into the discussion. It was simply, merely a joke. I’m sorry if you took it awry.
I’m not passing judgment on Bryan’s possible “trollness,” but honestly, he didn’t say anything that sounds all that objectionable to me. He was respectful and voiced his opinion – and disagree or not, it’s a legitimate opinion. So, I don’t know – why would he take the trouble to troll if he just wanted to say that young people on the whole care more about killing old Hannibal than about sucking up to the king? It’s not like he came in here and started huffing about conservative idiocy and racism and hypocrisy. He didn’t even go Godwin’s Law on us.
Still, Curtis, I see where you’re coming from, and I’m not in disagreement with you that the lefties will do anything they can to use and co-opt these celebrations, no matter what their ultimate emotional source. I just think, as of now, you’re going a little hard on Bryan, and on yours truly.
Trust me, though – as soon as he says something that screams “troll” to me, I’ll be the first to join you. Until then, innocent until proven guilty.
Oh yeah, and Foxfier –
Have I seen you at What’s Wrong With the World?
I could have sworn I saw someone with your monicker commenting there.
Well, that’s a good point, Kolnai.
Innocent until proven guilty is a right to citizens in peacetime. I count on this: We are in a full blown war for this country and it is a war of information and propaganda. And the Other aren’t citizens.
Let’s get to the bottom of issue: Were the students happily and spontaneously celebrating because Osama, their nightmare, their generational bogeyman, was dead?
On the face of it, I don’t think so. Something smells rotten in Denmark! Here is a competing story: Students, with a little help from their “friends” put on a show. And isn’t it coincidental that the show makes Obama look like that which he is not.
About Bryan? I really don’t know if he is a troll or not. He’s most welcome to blog here anytime. I don’t control that. But a new voice bringing exactly that kind of argument? And I’m supposed to lay off because he is only 19?
You casual readers show know this: Websites are cataloged and targeted. This website is hated and our voices here, our opinions, our words are hated because we oppose Obama and because we want to expose him for the fraud he is.
“”I can’t recall another time when America celebrated the death of a single person, even a vicious enemy.””
Neo
That’s what makes it seem so foreign to me. And boy at the irony of these being supporters of an administration that was going to rise above the level of our enemies. Heck just replace the NY Yankee hats with taqiyahs and you got yourself an arab street orgasm.
Ymarsaker, I accessed the cite you provided and found this disclaimer:
“This paper reflects the research and thoughts of a student at the time the paper was written for a course at Bryn Mawr College. Like other materials on Serendip, it is not intended to be “authoritative” but rather to help others further develop their own explorations. Web links were active as of the time the paper was posted but are not updated.”
You’re just not trying hard enough. C’mon. A student writing a paper with a disclaimer that it’s for “explorations.” Was this your paper?
It is obvious that you have been “touched” and put under a spell. What were you thinking? You’re not supposed to mess around with the brain changers? Now you’ve got yourself all mixed up.
Deprogramming is hard. It is very difficult, but it can be done. And there is no alternative if you want your free will back.
Curtis, one doesn’t need to be a spineless crybaby to celebrate the death of a lifelong villain. Yeah, some kids take any reason to party, some kids do just want to worship Obama, I get it. But you’re taking it way too far.
If you’re going to ask Bryan if it’s “reasonable for you to reason from yourself to the whole”, you should probably avoid attacking him (an individual) because the actions and size of a group didn’t seem right to you. The converse of hasty generalization is still a fallacy.
I mean, what if he lost family on 9/11, when he was 11 years old? What if his brother died in GWOT a couple years later, when Bryan was the ripe old age of 13? Would that be emotionally traumatic enough to justify celebrating the “death of a boogeyman” for you? Oh wait, no, it wouldn’t be. Because his writing sounds too old, so he must be a troll.
Anyway, his specific life history doesn’t even really matter. You can shelter your actions in the “I’m a big old meanie” attitude all you want, but don’t condescendingly lecture the youth for clarity of thought when you’re contributing your fair share of generalizations, pigeonholing, and paranoia. It’s incredibly annoying.
I haven’t seen the footage of the college kids in DC, but I wouldn’t dismiss them as astroturfed out of hand (nor indeed at all, even if they really were).
Recall that when the Soviets shot down KAL 007 a demonstration spontaneously broke out in front of the Soviet embassy in DC. I don’t think anyone ever alleged that that was astroturfed; it was just a spontaneous outpouring of sentiment.
I would like to – and do – believe that the same was the case here.
It’s incredibly annoying to liberals who are pansies.
You and Ymarsaker need to get together and swap spit because you share the same debased education: critical pedagogy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_pedagogy
Your wet noodle immediately becomes wetter upon hearing any sob story.
Personal details, unless you want to prove them, are open for attack. I don’t think Bryan is a youth. If he is 19 (actually 21) then let him stand on his own. An anecdote isn’t good evidence. The students were OFA Astroturf, notwithstanding Bryan’s protests.
Your opinion is wrong.
Occam, can you explain what your first statement means:
“I haven’t seen the footage of the college kids in DC, but I wouldn’t dismiss them as astroturfed out of hand (nor indeed at all, even if they really were).”
It’s that last part that is not making sense. It kind of sounds like you are saying even if they were astroturfed, they weren’t.
And I would like your opinion on this: Do you think the Berkeley kids would celebrate the death of one of those whom they have been taught to see as a victim of American imperialism, especially when that death came by that great machine of American injustice, the American military?
Isn’t there something incongruent here? These kids were more likely to protest his killing than celebrate it.
Curtis, apologies for the garbled syntax. I meant that I wouldn’t presume that the partying was astroturfed, but that even if it were, I wouldn’t dismiss it. I think the urge to celebrate was present in a lot of quarters, and so any astroturfing of celebration would be superfluous.
As for Berkeley, safest bet is to figure out a sane perspective on events, then apply the inversion operator. That’s usually pretty close to Berkeley’s take.
This is a tough one, however, because Obama did it. Now if Bush were still President, they’d be going ape over this, citing the injustice/war crimes/ the usual rubbish. That’s an easy call.
But with Obama in charge, they’ll experience philosophical tension. The very hard left will probably still hew to the injustice/war crime (Party) line, but the useful idiots are more likely to support Obama, and be pleased that he did something unequivocally right.
Just my guess. We’ll see what zombietime has to report.
I guess I’m the only one in America who isn’t celebrating this. Of course I’m glad the MF’er is dead, but I just don’t feel in a celebratory mood.
OBL’s death will not end Islam’s perpetual jihad against the entire non-Muslim world. I fear that leftists will use it as a justification for severe cuts in the military budget. (“The war on terror is over! We won!”) And I don’t want to see anything that might enhance Obama’s chances of being re-elected.
I studiously avoid the MSM, and I didn’t watch the press conference last night. I read some accounts and descriptions online, as well as listening to some talk radio shows today. I understand that Obama used his typical “I-I-I-I” in his press conference, taking personal credit for it. The news media were falling all over themselves gloating about it. This is nauseating and I don’t find it funny any more. I didn’t see the college-age celebrants in front of the White House, but my very first thought was that they were OFA astroturfers.
This whole thing came so close to the release of the birth certificate and the serious questions about it. The body was quickly disposed of. It also doesn’t change the fact that we are poised on the cliff of an economic collapse.
The whole thing stinks to high heaven and doesn’t give me a warm and fuzzy feeling.
(I guess I should also point out that I am in a bad mood because my computer started exhibiting serious problems yesterday and may be on its last legs.)
FWIW, I see no reason to think that Bryan is anything other than what he claims to be. His response was exactly the same as that of my sons, aged 21 and almost 19. I remember watching the events of September 11, 2001 with them, and telling them, “This is the beginning of a long war. It may last all our lifetimes.”
They are college students now, strongly opposed to Obama (the older one voted against him), and their immediate response to the Bin Laden news was exuberant. My older son started quoting from “Team America: World Police,” to which Mrs. Oblio replied, “Dirka, dirka.”
Perhaps they were relieved to see the US strike at an enemy without a lot of vaporing in Turtle Bay, and without a lot of handwringing or apology. Perhaps it was a moment of moral clarity and action in world of feckless hypocrisy and confusion.
Some of you need to chill out and save your testosterone for the enemy. OBL is dead and this is a good thing. It makes some (mostly the younger folks) cheer and shout in Times Square and elsewhere. BFD. Let them have their excitement. I suspect many of them believe ‘the war is over’. They’ll find out on their own when the next major attack occurs. And, it will occur.
IMO, there are 2 differing thoughts happening among the populous. One is the “Ding dong the wicked witch is dead” concept. The problem is solved, now let’s watch American Idol and order a pizza. The other is the “The king is dead, long live the king” concept. IOW the villain is gone but another villain will take his place.
My POV is OBL is dead, and while it is merely symbolic, it is satisfying nonetheless. I’ll open a bottle of wine, cook some pork chops for dinner, and eat and drink to the demon’s death. Yet, I know there are many more waiting to bring death and destruction to Western Civilization, and constant vigilance is required. Yogi says, “It ain’t over until its over.” It ain’t over!
My father was in Chicago when they killed Dillinger. They put his body up on a bier for public viewing and the aged P said the line went on for blocks
kolnai –
Yep, that’s me, too. (Unless someone’s borrowed my name for twerpness.) Part of why I have such an odd and oddly spelled ‘nym is because it’s highly unusual– there’s a Russian guy who uses it, and I think there’s one other, but I’ve been Foxfier since ’95 on the Yahoo message boards.
I guess I’m the only one in America who isn’t celebrating this. Of course I’m glad the MF’er is dead, but I just don’t feel in a celebratory mood.
You’re not alone. I’m glad he’s dead, but even if I could go drink I wouldn’t be doing it. Threat removed; time to watch out for the next.
Bryan unintentionally accomplished what I did against someone that liked to jump to conclusions.
Bryan stated that he was a certain age but his maturation level was much higher, thus allowing those biased against him to delude themselves and allow themselves to jump to the wrong conclusions.
I, in arguing with a lawyer at Blackfive over something like WMDs or torture, presented my arguments and changed my blog profile age to be 3-5 years younger than I was on the off chance that he was going to sniff me up for some dirt and mention it at B5. Which he did. And I sorta couldn’t control my mirth given how funny and unexpected it was. A great pleasant unexpected act it truly was. For someone to fall to disinformation that I myself created solely because he was inherently biased against me in the argument and given to leaping to conclusions when he shouldn’t….
Regardless of whether he was right or wrong on anything, the lawyer lost all credibility simply because he couldn’t detect “reality” vs false/erroneous data I myself put as bait for his delusions. If someone cannot detect reality when engaging one person, they have no horse to stand on when lecturing people about the great happenstances of our time.
Regardless, a supermajority of the regular Neo Neo commenters have seen more than enough to make a judgment. And it won’t be a false one that leaped before they should have. My self-chosen task was never to convince the active fighters. It was to present a dichotomy by example. Words are words but dead is dead.
Kol: Bryan – look, just give us the long form and we’ll believe you.
Bryan: Kolnai: Can’t, the Kenyan authorities won’t release my birth certificate.
Foxfier: (Guessing you meant to type a G there? The conversation on “dating games comes to mind.)
To name a thing is to give it power. And Japanese X has too much power already. I don’t want to be over run by a legion of J fans. I’ve seen what happens when the “fan clubs” of particular people, even high school students, get too motivated for their own good. In this fashion, I hope to get stealthed and under the radar. Then it’ll be safe, darou.
Kolnai: Curtis – truce! I was merely trying to inject some levity into the discussion. It was simply, merely a joke. I’m sorry if you took it awry.
I once came across the question of what makes things funny and how it greases certain social wheels. With the help of some of Grim Beorn’s insights on the matter, I’ve come to a few conclusions relevant to the jokes used above in bold.
Jokes are a way to determine the sincerity and non-hostility of other people in a group. Thus people who trust each other can joke about intimate things without harm. But why would strangers who say the same things, then generate hostility? Simply because the strangers don’t trust each other. So they don’t trust the “joke” either. What this tends to mean is that people who don’t laugh at your jokes, probably are not in synch socially with you. And if they are sincerely hostile to you, they will have negative reactions to jokes. It’s an early warning system. It is very hard to fake a laugh at a joke due to the mistiming (look at Obama when he tired to laugh at McCain’s joke about Obama). So this is a far more accurate way to determine hostility then to keep asking “are you mad? are you mad? are you going crazy on us?”. Since humans can lie. But they can’t lie when laughing at jokes. Not even trained spies and interrogators can fake it. They actually have to generate real mirth, to make it seem like they are laughing at the same thing but they aren’t.
So looking at the social interaction above, what this translates to to me in a social environment would be this.
Person A gets hostile and argumentive with a stranger in a bar, accusing the stranger of not belonging. Person B seeks to make a joke to calm things down and Person A acts belligerent towards Person B’s joke, after being hostile and argumentive with the stranger. The stranger gets some support from Person C, but Person A ignores said support.
Conclusion: It’s time to get Person A away from everyone else for awhile. Nobody’s going to be able to have fun at this rate.
For clarification purposes, I don’t care about people’s maturity levels, since that’s mostly their own concern and the concern of the people who have to talk to them. I am neither their friend, buddy, nor family member, thus whether they are mature or immature only affects me on an ancillary basis. For my other purposes, I definitely do give chief concern to. But maturity is only one concern I raised here and it was the last one.
I don’t automatically assume that simply because someone is 100% in agreement with my ideological beliefs that they are,
1. a good person or friend to talk to
2. mature (otokuish)
3. right
4. correct (tadashi)
5. calm (reisei)
I don’t assume any of that, even though ideological agreement tends to make people assume such, given the horror of the Left. I calculate people’s attributes on a more individual level.
Foxier, I recently finished reading ML Alternative produced and published by age. The review’s on my website and given your background and interests, you might find it worth a look.
”I can’t recall another time when America celebrated the death of a single person, even a vicious enemy.””
Neo
TIC answer: Easter…
The person in question is Jesus
Hallmark makes cards for it too…
🙂
if you take the time and expand, you will find other celebrations so normal we don’t realize what is behind them…
Ymarsakar –
Heh, I don’t have time for reading much of anything that isn’t either online or already in my library…