I watched the movie, “The Pianist,” on a DVD the other night. This is an important film in chronicling the Holocaust and how barbaric it was. Along with “Schindler’s List,” it should be required viewing for all high school students so they can gain an appreciation of the depths of depravity even civilized people can sink to.
Thank God for someone like Father Desbois. His work is most important and should receive far more support and acclaim than it does.
viewing for all high school students so they can gain an appreciation of the depths of depravity even civilized people can sink to.
wonder those high school students who listed with US army with $20,000-$40,000 bounces have wittiness the civilised people can sink as in Iraq or what happened in Gaza?
Highly recommend Hulme’s The Wild Place, an account of working in a postwar DP camp in Bavaria.
“Truth,” I am sorry that you have such a misperception that atrocities are being visited upon your fellow Muslims by Americans and Jews. The fact of the matter is that it is Muslims who are murdering other Muslims to a horrific degree. Muslims don’t just murder us unbelievers. They murder Muslims whom they consider to be expendable or if they consider them to be apostates and blasphemers for denouncing jihad. Sometimes the hardest facts are the ones most unflattering to our ethnic group or religious group.
Anyway, with that out of the way…
I was aware of the work of the Einsatzgruppen in Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, and Poland back in the 1960’s when I was a school kid in Catholic grammar school. And we knew about what the Germans had done to the Jews. “The Pianist” is a great movie done by a man who is otherwise a criminal. A few weeks ago I went to see “Defiance.” Very good film. It depicts how the Jews were hunted by the Einsatzgruppen in Belarus after the onset of Operation Barbarossa.
There is also The Good Old Days, (Trevor-Roper) about the perps, witnesses, and bystanders of the genocide outside the camps. Lithuanian, Ukarainian, Polish sorce material.
Truth, you seem unable to make very basic distinctions, which is usually a sign of someone who is advocating rather than discussing.
The fact of the matter is that it is Muslims who are murdering other Muslims to a horrific degree. Muslims don’t just murder us unbelievers.
They are not alone in this madness world, go read your early history well and see what your “Catholic” / unbelievers did with native people!!. Those SIX millions Jews are “Holocausted” massacred by Germens, they killed by your follow “Catholic” but NOT Muslims.
a sign of someone who is advocating rather than discussing.
Sorry but I can not see “advocating/ discussing” minded people here rather than their hatful vies and minds advocating about their biased views.
FredHjr,
Yes, Polanski is a criminal. However, maybe this film provides a bit of atonement for his sins.
Truth,
The story you linked to was another improbable, but true story of the survival of a Jew during WWII; just as in “The Piano.” Exactly what that has to do with young men enlisting in the U.S. military escapes me. You seem to believe that the U.S. or Israel have engaged in wholesale butchery of unarmed non-combatants. I can assure you that, while innocent people have died in both Gaza and Iraq, there was no planned intent to kill them as the Jews were in WWII. They happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. You probably can’t or won’t accept that and that’s too bad. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.
Truth,
The difference is those “Catholics” you refer to had no Biblical sanction to commit those crimes. But muslims kill muslims with the express permission and command of Allah and his messenger, chronicled in the Qur’an and hadith.
Lee,
Doesn’t matter to these people, as we discovered on that other thread. He isn’t going to accept any explanation we offer, because we’re kafirs. We are cursed by Allah, and we are liars and “aggressors.” Our very existence is offensive to these people. Even when we try, as we do, in battle to avoid non-combatant casualties, it’s very difficult to achieve a perfect score because they hide weapons and fighters among civilians. In effect, they use civilians as propaganda props. They hope we kill and maim some, so that they can use their dupes in our MSM to wage a withering propaganda war on our troops. It’s disgusting. This is the kind of evil that we are facing. And I think – it is my opinion – that our people who fall for this and work for dar al Islam are the most disgusting dhimmis.
In fact, they are every bit as evil as those Russians, Ukrainians, Belorussians, and Poles who worked with the Nazis to exterminate the Jews. Those people were bullies and cowards. I knew one such as them when I was a boy growing up. He was a Pole who lived in our neighborhood and word was that he worked with the Nazis in Poland in the camps. He was an abusive and foul human being, who beat his wife and his son. Many years after I was gone from that neighborhood I learned that when the piece of shit died his son wouldn’t go to the wake and the funeral. But the son was an old batchelor who moved in with his mother to take care of her.
Fred,
I don’t necessarily respond for “Truth’s” sake, as for truth’s sake. Bogey, for example, is probably just a victim of indoctrination. Truth, on the other hand, is a propagandist, one of those “good” muslims we refer to.
I can assure you that, while innocent people have died in both Gaza and Iraq, there was no planned intent to kill them as the Jews were in WWII. They happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Thanks for your thoughts, but I don’t agree with “wrong place at the wrong time” argument this is just slippery way of excuses that keep some telling. They started with “regime change” ending in a complete humiliations of 25 Millions of innocents Iraqi have nothing to do just looking for their future and their life as promised by first l Bush’s letter just before the war.
They ended in a complete chaos and distractions of their country on claims of “regime change”, yes is different what happen in WWII but you know not all things can be said in this time and what motivating people to go to the war and what exactly their hidden goals so they made it easy to audience like you by saying “its happen be in the wrong place at the wrong time”.
Biblical sanction to commit those crimes.
Are you sure!! Did you read and follow your Bible.
Let us know if you have problem to find out come back may I can help you to find out
“Truth”,
Yes, please. By all means, if you can provide Biblical scripture which sanctions Christians killing Jews, then do so at your earliest convenience.
I have a feeling “Truth” is going to take a while.
Back on subject, I seem to recall reading and seeing quite a bit about the early Holocaust before the camps. There was a British history show called “The World at War”.
Having grown up in Denver, we have a memorial park dedicated to the Babi Yar massacre, so maybe it’s a regional thing.
Truth says: “…they killed by your follow “Catholic” but NOT Muslims.”
Truth, you’re either embarrassed and in denial, or you’re lying. We all know the history of the Grand Mufti of Jeruselum and company during WWII… Your diatribe about Gaza and Iraq is simply old and stale. Let’s see now, how many muslims live unmolested, with how many active and open mosques, in how many communities, many receiving government aid of some sort, etc., etc., in the miniscule State of Israel? Can the same be said for Jews, as well as others, in the Moslem world that effectively controls about 20% of the geography of the planet earth, ie. Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc.? Truth, I’m not being disrespectful when I suggest to you that you need to grow up, if you’re not simply essentially intellectually retarded, or shut up. Perhaps your ideas and contributions would be more appropriate and welcome over at the Daily Kos? Take it to heart pal, I’m really not trying to insult you, but you need to get real about the “truth”….
This might be a stupid question, but how exactly did zazi’s go about identifying jews? Were there steps taken by jews to foil being identified?
I’m just saying….All the jews i know seem like regular caucasion people to me.
Truth says the magic word: “humiliation.” Stay on the lookout for related words in the comments of the President, the Samantha Powers of the world, the foreign policy establishment, clergymen, NGO’s, and the press–“respect” and especially “dignity.”
Come to think of it, I believe George Galloway was elected as MP for the Respect Party, which was a somewhat fragile alliance between members of the Socialist Workers Party (a Trotskyist group), the Muslim Association of Britain, and the Muslim Council of Britain.
From President Obama’s Inaugural Address:
“And so, to all other peoples and governments who are watching today, from the grandest capitals to the small village where my father was born: know that America is a friend of each nation and every man, woman and child who seeks a future of peace and dignity, and we are ready to lead once more.”
And in the first statement for the Muslim world:
“To the Muslim world, we seek a new way forward, based on mutual interest and mutual respect.”
Never underestimate the emotional power of wounded pride.
Why many (but not all) Muslims feel humiliation is worthy of discussion. Is it more an Arab cultural issue, since Kurds and Turks, for example, don’t seem to be ashamed at all? Also worthy of discussion would be Muslim (or Arab?) statements of what, if anything, would assuage these feelings.
I hope that Truth and Iraqis will soon feel pride in peace and free elections in Iraq. They ought to.
Steve H: I don’t know all the details, but some of the ways the Nazis identified Jews were the following:
(1) In the Europe of the time, there was more attention paid to such things even before the Nazis came to power. People in the community tended to know who was Jewish and who was Catholic, for example, because there was more separation of the groups, both socially and culturally and religiously. In a smaller town, of course, it was even more obvious. So the Nazis relied on the locals to point out who were Jews, and in countries where the locals did not cooperate, it was much more difficult.
(2) But even without the cooperation of the locals, in many (perhaps most?) countries in Europe every person had to carry identification papers. These were more than the equivalent of a driver’s license, for example, and they usually included information such as religion.
(3) In some communities (especially in Eastern Europe as opposed to Western Europe) Jews were more isolated from the rest of the residents, and even dressed differently and lived more or less separately. They tended to be Orthodox and observant, which made them easier to spot. All of this made it very easy in those communities to identify Jews. In some countries Jews looked physically different from the rest of the population. But not all Jews; some could “pass,” especially if they obtained false papers. But most Jews would have had more difficulty doing this.
(4) Male Jews were circumcized in a society in which no one else was. This made it very easy to identify male Jews.
(5) Sometimes, non-Jews were required to certify that they were not Jewish, and to produce papers such as baptismal certificates.
Steve H:
Here’s some more information on the subject. As you can see, in some countries it was done step by step, and Jews were identified before anyone knew it was part of a program to kill them:
All Jews were required to fill out a census. The information on the census included age, sex, religion, home address, type of employment, and number of Jewish relatives (Seltzer). It is important to note, however, that although religion was usually used to identify Jews, the Jews were not considered a religious group, but as an actual race of Jewish people. The Nazis were not the only ones to implement these census systems. Local governments, such as in France, also made use of the census (Ryan). France was convinced through German propaganda to make use of a census to keep track of its Jewish population. The census made is possible to not only identify Jewish peoples, but allowed the Nazis to identify where Jewish populations were located, and how many were living in one area. Information like this allowed them to instate a quota system to keep track of the number of Jews sent to concentration camps and the number that were remaining in any one area. According to the population concentration of Jews, the Nazis moved to assimilate the area numbering the greatest in Jewish numbers. In addition, the census information allowed the Nazis to know the exact location of each Jewish family, which in turn made the collection of Jews to be sent to concentration camps much more efficient. Finally, the information of the Jewish jobs allowed the Nazis to contact employers with propaganda to convince them that employment of Jews was not a very favorable practice. Jews attempted to avoid the census by moving to another area, or just not taking the census at all. If Jews moved, they were required to fill out a census in their new place of residence. Failure register for the census in a new residence, or refusal to take the census resulted in the person being arrested, and deported to a concentration camp (Ryan, pg 39). In the Netherlands, a dot-map technique was used in 1941 to track populations of Jews in and around Amsterdam. This composed of taking a map and using dots to mark a certain increment of the number of Jews living in an area. In the Netherlands the cataloging of Jews was established through the Dutch administration services’ population registration system, which was in essence the same as a census, but was a more technically advanced process (Seltzer).
After being identified through census systems, the Jewish population was forced to carry or wear a form of identification, and change their names to make identification easier. The most common of these was the yellow or blue star, which was worn on the left breast and back of the Jews’ clothing. This was a small patch of yellow cloth shaped like the Star of David and with the Star of David drawn on it. It also usually had the word “Jew” or “Jude” printed on it. Jews were required to make these stars themselves as a sort of demoralization technique. If not wearing a yellow star, a Jew could be arrested and put in prison or exported to a concentration camp (Holocaust). The other form of identification was in that of a passport or identification papers. A Jewish passport had a large red J stamped on the inside to notify the reader that the bearer of the passport was Jewish, along with the bearer’s place of residence. The passport was mainly used when Jews were forced by Nazis to relocate to different countries. Identification papers were used in a more confined locale, and Jews were required to have them at all times, as well as Nazis. The identification papers held the same information as a passport, but also included more personal information. Nazis carried these papers to prove that they were not Jewish, and thereby able to escape any accidental prosecution from their own kind. Failure to produce the identification papers on request resulted in pretty much the same thing as failure to produce a passport (Holocaust). Encouragement was high for Jews to adopt and use only Jewish names, which was a restriction as well as a form of identification, for only the Jews actually wanted to use Jewish names. This was important because it made the identification of Jews easier. Anyone with a Jewish name could be assumed to be Jewish.
The requirement of Jews to carry identification on them fit into the four step plan of the Final Solution in which the entire Jewish race would be eradicated. First off, identification of Jews took place using racial laws that defined what it was to be Jewish, and requiring them to participate in a census. Secondly, the identification and population data extracted from the census was used to take hold of Jewish property, kick Jewish peoples from certain higher paying and more influential jobs. Third, because of the lack of resources for money and food, the Jews were forced to move into much more concentrated conditions in inner city ghettos, where they were much more easily controlled by the Nazis. In these places, rent was cheaper, and food much more available, if not the best possible food. The Jews were much more easily controlled after being concentrated in these ghettos, as they were no longer able to do anything to support themselves or their families. This isolation also kept the Jews away from any supporters who might take them into hiding to prevent any harm from befalling them. Most of all, it made for easy and quick identification of any Jewish people. Finally, the Jews in these inner city ghettos were rounded up and shipped off to concentration camps, where they were put into heavy labor or systematically executed.
Perfected democrat,
First this space is not your space, so Neo she will tell what she like or simply she can block me form been here, so its very impolite to ask me to comment somewhere. The right way is you either discussing what may comment or you simply ignore it because not likable by your mind set.
As per Mufti of Jeruselum this obsolete story keep hanging to it just simply excuse me to say “rubbish” if we can say how many nations/ government / parties and individuals support Nazi regime with his lunatic racist leaders, so coming to here and with Mufti story to blame all Muslims world for what he done or not is just absolute nonsense here.
Do you think that All Americans have to blame what GW Bush done in his fake regime change war? I don’t …..
What about Italians? What you’re thought with their full support and a lied with Germans? Was Mussolini Italian, tell us here?
Gaza and Iraq is simply old and stale. Let’s see now, how many Muslims live unmolested, with how many active and open mosques
Di d you heard or listened to Levine about 1948 Arab inside Israel?, Btw Israeli is the sate that lived on US aide for long time and its your tax money I know it’s not my business to say that but just to remind you in addition all the donations from US to state of Israel is Tax detectable isn’t? Why just Israel you need to asked your officials so the fact is that aide going to “Muslims live unmolested “ in fact is from your tax money is that correct?
Looks to me people who speaks about these views are selective and single minded, understandably because they mostly worked and went to Saudi Kingdome or gulf, so their level of understanding of Islamic word is short out of site due to fanatic and tyrant regime in that country that built of deformed and self necessity fanatic system they created for last 100 years same as Pakistan as those Madrassh funded and support back to Tyrant regime in studies and as same as Afghanistan..
It might worth while to reed this story of Iraqi Jew and how much love they have to the land, people of Iraqi
Finally learn the respect and you should be respect people as you love to be respected, and learn how to discuss your view without insulting other due to difference in their views.
As for Obama massage to the other nations well, time will answer his will and his honesty so Waite and see its not long just four years to go and see what his words worth and his massage with what he do and acts during time been.
I hope that Truth and Iraqis will soon feel pride in peace and free elections in Iraq. They ought to.
Of course they are not because recent election, they have 5000 years of pride they gave you the law and taught you how to read and write and more, you don’t need to tell them to be prod they already do.
Thanks Neo.
I can’t fathom the sheer hatred that must have been present in nazis going to such great lengths.
I just don’t get it. Its almost like some people have so much hate in their hearts, they require the efficiency of hating mass groups to satisfy it. The jews are apparently prime targets to such people as a successful group cursed with vulberable small numbers.
Of all the Muslims killed in the last fifty years, the IDF killed three-tenths of one percent. You’d think somebody would be interested in who killed the other 99.7%.
Wouldn’t you?
“Biblical sanction to commit those crimes.
Are you sure!! Did you read and follow your Bible.
Let us know if you have problem to find out come back may I can help you to find out”
Still waiting, “Truth”. Or, after realizing you were dealing with someone who actually does “read and follow” the Bible, you run away because your claim to be able to “help you to find out” where it condones or sanctions Christians to kill Jews is just another of your many lies.
Lee,
He doesn’t know the Bible or Christian theology. One simply cannot shuck and jive here like one can over at HuffPost, MoveOn, DailyKos, or the DU.
“Truth” is a liar, and his god is the Father of Lies.
Hitler was an atheist. Anyone doubting this should read Mein Kampf. Like most megalomaniacs, he resented the competition, and wanted people to worship only him.
Thatisall.
Here’s another Nazi/Islam link not as “obsolete” as the Grand Mufti Husseini:
Beverly,
Actually, Hitler was more pagan than atheist. His guiding spirits were “Fate” and “Nature”.
Mein Kampf:1 “Today I consider it my good fortune that Fate designated the small town of Braunau as the place of my birth.”
Mein Kampf:80 “Eternal Nature inexorably revenges the transgressors of her laws. I am acting on behalf of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord’s work.”
Between National Socialism and Islam, this means there are two spirits that hate Jews, or Hitler and Muhammed follow the same spirit.
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I watched the movie, “The Pianist,” on a DVD the other night. This is an important film in chronicling the Holocaust and how barbaric it was. Along with “Schindler’s List,” it should be required viewing for all high school students so they can gain an appreciation of the depths of depravity even civilized people can sink to.
Thank God for someone like Father Desbois. His work is most important and should receive far more support and acclaim than it does.
boy became a Nazi mascot
http://articles.latimes.com/2007/dec/09/news/adfg-mascot9
viewing for all high school students so they can gain an appreciation of the depths of depravity even civilized people can sink to.
wonder those high school students who listed with US army with $20,000-$40,000 bounces have wittiness the civilised people can sink as in Iraq or what happened in Gaza?
Highly recommend Hulme’s The Wild Place, an account of working in a postwar DP camp in Bavaria.
“Truth,” I am sorry that you have such a misperception that atrocities are being visited upon your fellow Muslims by Americans and Jews. The fact of the matter is that it is Muslims who are murdering other Muslims to a horrific degree. Muslims don’t just murder us unbelievers. They murder Muslims whom they consider to be expendable or if they consider them to be apostates and blasphemers for denouncing jihad. Sometimes the hardest facts are the ones most unflattering to our ethnic group or religious group.
Anyway, with that out of the way…
I was aware of the work of the Einsatzgruppen in Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, and Poland back in the 1960’s when I was a school kid in Catholic grammar school. And we knew about what the Germans had done to the Jews. “The Pianist” is a great movie done by a man who is otherwise a criminal. A few weeks ago I went to see “Defiance.” Very good film. It depicts how the Jews were hunted by the Einsatzgruppen in Belarus after the onset of Operation Barbarossa.
There is also The Good Old Days, (Trevor-Roper) about the perps, witnesses, and bystanders of the genocide outside the camps. Lithuanian, Ukarainian, Polish sorce material.
Truth, you seem unable to make very basic distinctions, which is usually a sign of someone who is advocating rather than discussing.
The fact of the matter is that it is Muslims who are murdering other Muslims to a horrific degree. Muslims don’t just murder us unbelievers.
They are not alone in this madness world, go read your early history well and see what your “Catholic” / unbelievers did with native people!!. Those SIX millions Jews are “Holocausted” massacred by Germens, they killed by your follow “Catholic” but NOT Muslims.
a sign of someone who is advocating rather than discussing.
Sorry but I can not see “advocating/ discussing” minded people here rather than their hatful vies and minds advocating about their biased views.
FredHjr,
Yes, Polanski is a criminal. However, maybe this film provides a bit of atonement for his sins.
Truth,
The story you linked to was another improbable, but true story of the survival of a Jew during WWII; just as in “The Piano.” Exactly what that has to do with young men enlisting in the U.S. military escapes me. You seem to believe that the U.S. or Israel have engaged in wholesale butchery of unarmed non-combatants. I can assure you that, while innocent people have died in both Gaza and Iraq, there was no planned intent to kill them as the Jews were in WWII. They happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. You probably can’t or won’t accept that and that’s too bad. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.
Truth,
The difference is those “Catholics” you refer to had no Biblical sanction to commit those crimes. But muslims kill muslims with the express permission and command of Allah and his messenger, chronicled in the Qur’an and hadith.
Lee,
Doesn’t matter to these people, as we discovered on that other thread. He isn’t going to accept any explanation we offer, because we’re kafirs. We are cursed by Allah, and we are liars and “aggressors.” Our very existence is offensive to these people. Even when we try, as we do, in battle to avoid non-combatant casualties, it’s very difficult to achieve a perfect score because they hide weapons and fighters among civilians. In effect, they use civilians as propaganda props. They hope we kill and maim some, so that they can use their dupes in our MSM to wage a withering propaganda war on our troops. It’s disgusting. This is the kind of evil that we are facing. And I think – it is my opinion – that our people who fall for this and work for dar al Islam are the most disgusting dhimmis.
In fact, they are every bit as evil as those Russians, Ukrainians, Belorussians, and Poles who worked with the Nazis to exterminate the Jews. Those people were bullies and cowards. I knew one such as them when I was a boy growing up. He was a Pole who lived in our neighborhood and word was that he worked with the Nazis in Poland in the camps. He was an abusive and foul human being, who beat his wife and his son. Many years after I was gone from that neighborhood I learned that when the piece of shit died his son wouldn’t go to the wake and the funeral. But the son was an old batchelor who moved in with his mother to take care of her.
Fred,
I don’t necessarily respond for “Truth’s” sake, as for truth’s sake. Bogey, for example, is probably just a victim of indoctrination. Truth, on the other hand, is a propagandist, one of those “good” muslims we refer to.
I can assure you that, while innocent people have died in both Gaza and Iraq, there was no planned intent to kill them as the Jews were in WWII. They happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Thanks for your thoughts, but I don’t agree with “wrong place at the wrong time” argument this is just slippery way of excuses that keep some telling. They started with “regime change” ending in a complete humiliations of 25 Millions of innocents Iraqi have nothing to do just looking for their future and their life as promised by first l Bush’s letter just before the war.
They ended in a complete chaos and distractions of their country on claims of “regime change”, yes is different what happen in WWII but you know not all things can be said in this time and what motivating people to go to the war and what exactly their hidden goals so they made it easy to audience like you by saying “its happen be in the wrong place at the wrong time”.
Biblical sanction to commit those crimes.
Are you sure!! Did you read and follow your Bible.
Let us know if you have problem to find out come back may I can help you to find out
“Truth”,
Yes, please. By all means, if you can provide Biblical scripture which sanctions Christians killing Jews, then do so at your earliest convenience.
I have a feeling “Truth” is going to take a while.
Back on subject, I seem to recall reading and seeing quite a bit about the early Holocaust before the camps. There was a British history show called “The World at War”.
Having grown up in Denver, we have a memorial park dedicated to the Babi Yar massacre, so maybe it’s a regional thing.
http://www.zchor.org/BABIYAR.HTM
Truth says: “…they killed by your follow “Catholic” but NOT Muslims.”
Truth, you’re either embarrassed and in denial, or you’re lying. We all know the history of the Grand Mufti of Jeruselum and company during WWII… Your diatribe about Gaza and Iraq is simply old and stale. Let’s see now, how many muslims live unmolested, with how many active and open mosques, in how many communities, many receiving government aid of some sort, etc., etc., in the miniscule State of Israel? Can the same be said for Jews, as well as others, in the Moslem world that effectively controls about 20% of the geography of the planet earth, ie. Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc.? Truth, I’m not being disrespectful when I suggest to you that you need to grow up, if you’re not simply essentially intellectually retarded, or shut up. Perhaps your ideas and contributions would be more appropriate and welcome over at the Daily Kos? Take it to heart pal, I’m really not trying to insult you, but you need to get real about the “truth”….
This might be a stupid question, but how exactly did zazi’s go about identifying jews? Were there steps taken by jews to foil being identified?
I’m just saying….All the jews i know seem like regular caucasion people to me.
Truth says the magic word: “humiliation.” Stay on the lookout for related words in the comments of the President, the Samantha Powers of the world, the foreign policy establishment, clergymen, NGO’s, and the press–“respect” and especially “dignity.”
Come to think of it, I believe George Galloway was elected as MP for the Respect Party, which was a somewhat fragile alliance between members of the Socialist Workers Party (a Trotskyist group), the Muslim Association of Britain, and the Muslim Council of Britain.
From President Obama’s Inaugural Address:
“And so, to all other peoples and governments who are watching today, from the grandest capitals to the small village where my father was born: know that America is a friend of each nation and every man, woman and child who seeks a future of peace and dignity, and we are ready to lead once more.”
And in the first statement for the Muslim world:
“To the Muslim world, we seek a new way forward, based on mutual interest and mutual respect.”
Never underestimate the emotional power of wounded pride.
Why many (but not all) Muslims feel humiliation is worthy of discussion. Is it more an Arab cultural issue, since Kurds and Turks, for example, don’t seem to be ashamed at all? Also worthy of discussion would be Muslim (or Arab?) statements of what, if anything, would assuage these feelings.
I hope that Truth and Iraqis will soon feel pride in peace and free elections in Iraq. They ought to.
Steve H: I don’t know all the details, but some of the ways the Nazis identified Jews were the following:
(1) In the Europe of the time, there was more attention paid to such things even before the Nazis came to power. People in the community tended to know who was Jewish and who was Catholic, for example, because there was more separation of the groups, both socially and culturally and religiously. In a smaller town, of course, it was even more obvious. So the Nazis relied on the locals to point out who were Jews, and in countries where the locals did not cooperate, it was much more difficult.
(2) But even without the cooperation of the locals, in many (perhaps most?) countries in Europe every person had to carry identification papers. These were more than the equivalent of a driver’s license, for example, and they usually included information such as religion.
(3) In some communities (especially in Eastern Europe as opposed to Western Europe) Jews were more isolated from the rest of the residents, and even dressed differently and lived more or less separately. They tended to be Orthodox and observant, which made them easier to spot. All of this made it very easy in those communities to identify Jews. In some countries Jews looked physically different from the rest of the population. But not all Jews; some could “pass,” especially if they obtained false papers. But most Jews would have had more difficulty doing this.
(4) Male Jews were circumcized in a society in which no one else was. This made it very easy to identify male Jews.
(5) Sometimes, non-Jews were required to certify that they were not Jewish, and to produce papers such as baptismal certificates.
Steve H:
Here’s some more information on the subject. As you can see, in some countries it was done step by step, and Jews were identified before anyone knew it was part of a program to kill them:
All Jews were required to fill out a census. The information on the census included age, sex, religion, home address, type of employment, and number of Jewish relatives (Seltzer). It is important to note, however, that although religion was usually used to identify Jews, the Jews were not considered a religious group, but as an actual race of Jewish people. The Nazis were not the only ones to implement these census systems. Local governments, such as in France, also made use of the census (Ryan). France was convinced through German propaganda to make use of a census to keep track of its Jewish population. The census made is possible to not only identify Jewish peoples, but allowed the Nazis to identify where Jewish populations were located, and how many were living in one area. Information like this allowed them to instate a quota system to keep track of the number of Jews sent to concentration camps and the number that were remaining in any one area. According to the population concentration of Jews, the Nazis moved to assimilate the area numbering the greatest in Jewish numbers. In addition, the census information allowed the Nazis to know the exact location of each Jewish family, which in turn made the collection of Jews to be sent to concentration camps much more efficient. Finally, the information of the Jewish jobs allowed the Nazis to contact employers with propaganda to convince them that employment of Jews was not a very favorable practice. Jews attempted to avoid the census by moving to another area, or just not taking the census at all. If Jews moved, they were required to fill out a census in their new place of residence. Failure register for the census in a new residence, or refusal to take the census resulted in the person being arrested, and deported to a concentration camp (Ryan, pg 39). In the Netherlands, a dot-map technique was used in 1941 to track populations of Jews in and around Amsterdam. This composed of taking a map and using dots to mark a certain increment of the number of Jews living in an area. In the Netherlands the cataloging of Jews was established through the Dutch administration services’ population registration system, which was in essence the same as a census, but was a more technically advanced process (Seltzer).
After being identified through census systems, the Jewish population was forced to carry or wear a form of identification, and change their names to make identification easier. The most common of these was the yellow or blue star, which was worn on the left breast and back of the Jews’ clothing. This was a small patch of yellow cloth shaped like the Star of David and with the Star of David drawn on it. It also usually had the word “Jew” or “Jude” printed on it. Jews were required to make these stars themselves as a sort of demoralization technique. If not wearing a yellow star, a Jew could be arrested and put in prison or exported to a concentration camp (Holocaust). The other form of identification was in that of a passport or identification papers. A Jewish passport had a large red J stamped on the inside to notify the reader that the bearer of the passport was Jewish, along with the bearer’s place of residence. The passport was mainly used when Jews were forced by Nazis to relocate to different countries. Identification papers were used in a more confined locale, and Jews were required to have them at all times, as well as Nazis. The identification papers held the same information as a passport, but also included more personal information. Nazis carried these papers to prove that they were not Jewish, and thereby able to escape any accidental prosecution from their own kind. Failure to produce the identification papers on request resulted in pretty much the same thing as failure to produce a passport (Holocaust). Encouragement was high for Jews to adopt and use only Jewish names, which was a restriction as well as a form of identification, for only the Jews actually wanted to use Jewish names. This was important because it made the identification of Jews easier. Anyone with a Jewish name could be assumed to be Jewish.
The requirement of Jews to carry identification on them fit into the four step plan of the Final Solution in which the entire Jewish race would be eradicated. First off, identification of Jews took place using racial laws that defined what it was to be Jewish, and requiring them to participate in a census. Secondly, the identification and population data extracted from the census was used to take hold of Jewish property, kick Jewish peoples from certain higher paying and more influential jobs. Third, because of the lack of resources for money and food, the Jews were forced to move into much more concentrated conditions in inner city ghettos, where they were much more easily controlled by the Nazis. In these places, rent was cheaper, and food much more available, if not the best possible food. The Jews were much more easily controlled after being concentrated in these ghettos, as they were no longer able to do anything to support themselves or their families. This isolation also kept the Jews away from any supporters who might take them into hiding to prevent any harm from befalling them. Most of all, it made for easy and quick identification of any Jewish people. Finally, the Jews in these inner city ghettos were rounded up and shipped off to concentration camps, where they were put into heavy labor or systematically executed.
Perfected democrat,
First this space is not your space, so Neo she will tell what she like or simply she can block me form been here, so its very impolite to ask me to comment somewhere. The right way is you either discussing what may comment or you simply ignore it because not likable by your mind set.
As per Mufti of Jeruselum this obsolete story keep hanging to it just simply excuse me to say “rubbish” if we can say how many nations/ government / parties and individuals support Nazi regime with his lunatic racist leaders, so coming to here and with Mufti story to blame all Muslims world for what he done or not is just absolute nonsense here.
Do you think that All Americans have to blame what GW Bush done in his fake regime change war? I don’t …..
What about Italians? What you’re thought with their full support and a lied with Germans? Was Mussolini Italian, tell us here?
Gaza and Iraq is simply old and stale. Let’s see now, how many Muslims live unmolested, with how many active and open mosques
Di d you heard or listened to Levine about 1948 Arab inside Israel?, Btw Israeli is the sate that lived on US aide for long time and its your tax money I know it’s not my business to say that but just to remind you in addition all the donations from US to state of Israel is Tax detectable isn’t? Why just Israel you need to asked your officials so the fact is that aide going to “Muslims live unmolested “ in fact is from your tax money is that correct?
Looks to me people who speaks about these views are selective and single minded, understandably because they mostly worked and went to Saudi Kingdome or gulf, so their level of understanding of Islamic word is short out of site due to fanatic and tyrant regime in that country that built of deformed and self necessity fanatic system they created for last 100 years same as Pakistan as those Madrassh funded and support back to Tyrant regime in studies and as same as Afghanistan..
It might worth while to reed this story of Iraqi Jew and how much love they have to the land, people of Iraqi
Passover in Baghdad
Finally learn the respect and you should be respect people as you love to be respected, and learn how to discuss your view without insulting other due to difference in their views.
As for Obama massage to the other nations well, time will answer his will and his honesty so Waite and see its not long just four years to go and see what his words worth and his massage with what he do and acts during time been.
I hope that Truth and Iraqis will soon feel pride in peace and free elections in Iraq. They ought to.
Of course they are not because recent election, they have 5000 years of pride they gave you the law and taught you how to read and write and more, you don’t need to tell them to be prod they already do.
Thanks Neo.
I can’t fathom the sheer hatred that must have been present in nazis going to such great lengths.
I just don’t get it. Its almost like some people have so much hate in their hearts, they require the efficiency of hating mass groups to satisfy it. The jews are apparently prime targets to such people as a successful group cursed with vulberable small numbers.
Of all the Muslims killed in the last fifty years, the IDF killed three-tenths of one percent. You’d think somebody would be interested in who killed the other 99.7%.
Wouldn’t you?
“Biblical sanction to commit those crimes.
Are you sure!! Did you read and follow your Bible.
Let us know if you have problem to find out come back may I can help you to find out”
Still waiting, “Truth”. Or, after realizing you were dealing with someone who actually does “read and follow” the Bible, you run away because your claim to be able to “help you to find out” where it condones or sanctions Christians to kill Jews is just another of your many lies.
Lee,
He doesn’t know the Bible or Christian theology. One simply cannot shuck and jive here like one can over at HuffPost, MoveOn, DailyKos, or the DU.
“Truth” is a liar, and his god is the Father of Lies.
Hitler was an atheist. Anyone doubting this should read Mein Kampf. Like most megalomaniacs, he resented the competition, and wanted people to worship only him.
Thatisall.
Here’s another Nazi/Islam link not as “obsolete” as the Grand Mufti Husseini:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090206/ap_on_re_mi_ea/nazi_hunting
Just another “inconvenient truth”, eh “Truth”?
Beverly,
Actually, Hitler was more pagan than atheist. His guiding spirits were “Fate” and “Nature”.
Mein Kampf:1 “Today I consider it my good fortune that Fate designated the small town of Braunau as the place of my birth.”
Mein Kampf:80 “Eternal Nature inexorably revenges the transgressors of her laws. I am acting on behalf of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord’s work.”
Between National Socialism and Islam, this means there are two spirits that hate Jews, or Hitler and Muhammed follow the same spirit.