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Presidential characters — 25 Comments

  1. LBJ also led us into a quagmire in Vietnam; and quite likely as a result of egregious lies.

    I don’t want characters in the WH. If I get bored, I will find my own amusements, thank you. Just give me a quiet, and competent leader; someone who believes in America, the Constitution and limited government. There are several to choose from; none are named Clinton or Biden either.

  2. Oldflyer:

    On the topic of “egregious lies” of LBJ, please see this on the Gulf of Tonkin:

    Journalist Edward Jay Epstein has shown that in crucial respects, the Times coverage was at odds with what the documents actually said. The lead of the Times story was that in 1964 the Johnson administration reached a consensus to bomb North Vietnam at a time when the president was publicly saying that he would not bomb the north. In fact, the Pentagon papers actually said that, in 1964, the White House had rejected the idea of bombing the north. The Times went on to assert that American forces had deliberately provoked the alleged attacks on its ships in the Gulf of Tonkin to justify a congressional resolution supporting our war efforts. In fact, the Pentagon papers said the opposite: there was no evidence that we had provoked whatever attacks may have occurred.

    In short, a key newspaper said that politicians had manipulated us into a war by means of deception. This claim, wrong as it was, was part of a chain of reporting and editorializing that helped convince upper-middle-class Americans that the government could not be trusted.

    Have you read the Pentagon Papers themselves, or are you relying on what the Times said they show?

  3. I had to do a search to confirm it but remember when LBJ picked his beagle up by the ears and created what was then a political scandal. How times have changed!

  4. Your link on the Gulf of Tonkin just goes to the WSJ opinion page, and I was looking forward to reading the whole thing.

  5. Wooly Bully:

    It’s an old link from an old post of mine. Let me take a moment and see if I can find the article and create a better link.

  6. That linked City Journal article, though, doesn’t mention the classified documents and tapes released by the NSA in 2005 and 2006, which, according to this article in Naval History Magazine, “reveal what historians could not prove: There was not a second attack on U.S. Navy ships in the Tonkin Gulf in early August 1964. Furthermore, the evidence suggests a disturbing and deliberate attempt by Secretary of Defense McNamara to distort the evidence and mislead Congress.”

    It’s a long, detailed piece worth a read.

  7. The lies in Vietnam had more to do with journalists, Leftists, and anti Nixon coup de tat forces than the Gulf of Tonkin. Since after all Johnson had plenty of time to create deceptions after the incident.

  8. It seems to me from what I have read that Trump is actually the opposite of LBJ.

    Trump is flamboyant in his public/marketing persona but more personal and authentic in his private life. I’m not sure I believe it, but it does make some sense because he did build a big real estate empire, which takes some thoughtful planning and employee handling.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/aug/17/ronald-kessler-real-donald-trump/

    A political operative in Minnesota told me once that Ventura was actually a better governor (in one sense) than he was given credit for. He knew he didn’t know anything about government, so hired the best people he could find to run the various departments – and then gave them reasonable direction.

    Ventura’s public statements and general beliefs are a different matter of course.

    Maybe Trump would be most like Ventura?

  9. Trump is flamboyant in his public/marketing persona but more personal and authentic in his private life. I’m not sure I believe it, but it does make some sense because he did build a big real estate empire, which takes some thoughtful planning and employee handling.
    Ah, ah, ah! How do you make a small fortune?
    Start with a big one!

    The guy obviously has executive abilities, his style notwithstanding!

    Remember discussions about Obama’s temperament [superb] and … intellect [first class]?
    Not to mention the crease of his pants!
    Ah, ah, ah!

  10. G6loq @ 8:58 PM – –

    Yep. How do you become a billionaire? First, start by getting a million dollars ….

    In case folks don’t know, Caro’s books on Moses and LBJ are required reading and the sort folks on this site would love.

  11. The character Trump most reminds me of is Bill Clinton.

    The spate of “here’s what he is really like” stories sound very similar (and true).

    Rush was gloating today about Trump, a very unappealing tone and attitude, and very uncharacteristic (from what I have ever heard).

    I think many people are being unwise. The die are cast and we will see the number.

  12. From my POV Walker has the personality I want in a president. Calm, steadfast, midwest sensibility, and a record of real, on the ground, results. However, Fiorina and Cruz are presidential caliber IMO. Trump for national blowhard. The rest of the field, including Rubio, are distractions.

  13. OT, I know, but I am like a kid in a candy store.

    Cruz does not know he is being surprise “debated” by Ellen Page, and in five minutes she gets her comeuppance (in a polite way) .

    I especially like the moral equivalence point Cruz makes, and the way he confronts her (very nicely buy firmly) with her rank double standards, hypocrisy and phoniness.

    I also had to laugh at her defeated little rhetorical trick at the end where she thinks her awesome intellect will scold Cruz into submission.

    http://www.examiner.com/article/actress-ellen-page-gets-grilled-lgbt-debate-with-ted-cruz-at-iowa-state-fair

    Leftists – – they really are not nearly as smart of they think they are. Self-knowledge is a good thing to combat shallowness, but Page hasn’t gotten started yet.

  14. Tonawanda Says:
    August 22nd, 2015 at 12:08 am
    G6loq @ 8:58 PM — –

    Yep. How do you become a billionaire? First, start by getting a million dollars ….

    Yes.
    Also, my point was he was given an inheritance and made it grow. That in itself is unusual … most of the time a big fortune becomes much smaller.

    Trump stumps.
    Beyond all imagining: establishment has a problem, 27,000 in audience bothered to schlep to a stadium somewhere because …. antiestablishmentarianism.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPWERFt-gf8

    the book stuff is genius … so is the talk about aptitude. Soon Cruz enters?

    Romney of years pasts comes to mind: and associated ‘elites’
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtg5jOg362w

  15. Tonawanda Says:
    August 22nd, 2015 at 8:38 am

    I especially like the moral equivalence point Cruz makes, and the way he confronts her (very nicely buy firmly) with her rank double standards, hypocrisy and phoniness.
    … and brings us ISIS while eating pork!

    He has my vote!

  16. Neo,
    I am relying on reports of Naval Aviators who were in the air at the time of the “Tonkin Gulf Incident” as well as the reports from the ship.

    The CO of Maddox reported within 24 hours that he was no longer confident that he had been attacked, and that atmospheric anomalies affecting his radar created confusion. (I became intimately aware of those kinds of anomalies–which are common in the Mediterranean area–while serving as Combat Information Center Officer in USS John F. Kennedy. They can create havoc with radar.). Nevertheless, the incident was used as a pretext for bombing the NVN Naval base at Vinh and other targets.

    The rest, as the saying goes, is history. I do not know what the discussions were within the Administration; only the ultimate actions. I have not read the Pentagon papers.

    Parker, we agree. Walker has the cool demeanor, fronting an inner toughness, that I want.

  17. Johnson had “an unfillable hole in his ego,” Moyers says.

    And I or anyone should believe anything Moyers says why?

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