In the piano man thread, commenter mkent, writing about the ’80s, raises an interesting point.
“The music, the movies, the optimism of that era have never been equalled. It’s been 40 years now, but I still can’t shake the feeling that I came of age at the height of civilization.”
It’s hard for me to look at the ’80s unbiasedly, I too came of age in that era, but “… the height of civilization?”
It was a very optimistic time in America (and a lot of the world), especially after the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989. Were the Roaring ’20s more optimistic? The ’50s? All three eras were a time of fast, economic growth in America. That certainly had something to do with the zeitgeist.
Although I like a lot of ’80s music (like Tom Grey, I loved to dance to it at the time,* and still do), I don’t think much of it was good, in comparison to other eras. There’s a reason artists still draw from the American Songbook. Even though a lot of ’70s music annoys me (it was the generation just prior to mine and we ’80s teens were trying to NOT be like those people), I have to admit a lot of the musicianship in the ’70s was much better and the lyrics more poignant. Synthesized, computerized music was growing to maturity in the ’80s and a lot of the songs that featured “new, unique” sounds, sound very primitive and dated now. MTV and music videos were a HUGE part of music and the culture. Again, a lot of it looks primitive and dated now, and doesn’t hold up well, but at the time it was the bees knees.
The U.S. had a good run from around 1987 – early 2000 when the dotcom bubble burst. Clinton and the Republican Congress kept things relatively on course, there was a peace dividend from the collapse of the U.S.S.R. The tech boom fueled a strong job market and the Boomers were in peak earning and spending years.
Culturally, I don’t necessarily think a lot of it will hold up**, but it was a very fun and optimistic time to come of age.
*I still remember when dancing came back. One didn’t dance to Aerosmith or Led Zeppelin, but suddenly, around spring of ’82 kids started dancing together again, after a long, decade or so lull. Bars started scrambling to find room for a dance floor, moving tables out of the way. Of course disco dancing had been the thing in the mid to late ’70s, but for youth who listened to rock and bars that featured rock and/or country juke boxes, there were no dance floors.
**Although I don’t think a lot of the art was great (how many ’80s films make top 100 lists?), it was optimistic. And shiny. And new.
Rufus, sorry but you are wrong. The Music from the mid 50’s up to some of the early Beatles is still the best. And the best to dance too.
But yes, the time after VN war does seem to be the best of times, and for some the worst of times.
On another note, I see there is another push for reparations or in other words give us more money. I want my share. I had two Great Uncles die in the Civil War so I want my loot. Of course they were Confederates but that shouldn’t matter, right?
SHIREHOME,
In my comment I agree with you, that the music from the ’80s doesn’t hold up and wasn’t even as good as the music of the ’70s.
’50s? I’ll take Gershwin and Porter over the Big Bopper and Buddy Holly.
I also had two great uncles who died in the Civil War. Another was grievously wounded, as was my great-grandfather. All fought for the Union and, as recent immigrants (legal!) from Ireland, all spoke Gaelic or Gaelic/English as their first language when they answered the call to the colors — as volunteers.
No reparations will be paid.
I remember the 70s on the radio i became more aware in the mtv era 82-
Tom Grey and anyone interested in ’80s music:
Rick Beato has finished a trilogy of interviewing the trio that were the Police. He interviews Copeland, Summers and Sumner separately and you can find the videos on his channel: https://www.youtube.com/@RickBeato
I enjoyed the Summers interview the most. I still probably like Copeland the most, he’s always full of energy and opinions, but I’d already watched a few Copeland interviews, and read a fair amount about him. I didn’t know much about Andy Summers except that he was a really talented guitarist and about 10 years older than the other two. It was great to hear him talk about it all and he’s incredibly sharp for an 80 year old.
When my band plays that version of the song it’s like grabbing a hold of a moving bullet train and hanging on for dear life. What a great arrangement! I grew up a few miles from Goodman and Krupa.
Louis Prima doesn’t get enough credit as a composer.
SHIREHOME,
Which Beatles music is …the best to dance too?”
I really like their Cavern covers era when they were mimicking Buddy Holly and the Crickets (hence, the Beatles name), and dancing to that stuff, but after their first three albums and the few covers on “Beatles for Sale” what does one dance to? “Day in the Life?”
I’ve always placed the height of western civilization at around 1787, around when Mozart composed Don Giovanni, Kant revised his First Critique, Gibbon finished his grand life’s work and the US held her constitutional convention. The first cloud on the horizon—indicating that suicide would become a respectable alternative—The Sorrows of Young Werther, also appeared that year. Since then it has been a crazy ride, often fun with, often, danceable accompaniment, but a decline nevertheless, accelerating in these latter days.
of course copelands part in creating the equalizer, which encapsulated the late ed koch era, before we went to full dystopia under dinkins, (which has become hold my beer times under adams) I didn’t know then, about the copeland backstory,
the band member who became the lead spymaster in the middle east
desertowl,
Hard to think of any architecture from the ’80s that will hold up to long term scrutiny.
Regarding 1787, is it a decline, or is it just that the great minds had already figured out the essential stuff? I can’t think of a better government forming document than our Constitution and I can’t argue with Mozart.
I like the Chrysler Building and “Rhapsody in Blue.”
It was his father, I believe, which is why he (the little drummer boy) grew up in the M.E. (Beirut mostly, IIRC).
re architecture, I thought rand’s fountainhead, which is a mashnote for frank lloyd wright, went too much in disdain for classical forms, then you look at bauhaus and increasing more brutalist architecture, like my high school campus,
the building plans for public schools in south florida are even worse
miguel,
Public High School architecture closely mirrors prison architecture.
I listen to a lot of music from the late 30’s, the 40’s and the 50’s. Swing is great, as is the Blues and R&B from the 40’s and 50’s. I am 77 and have a hard time visualizing my Mom and Dad dancing to the music. But I bet they did
copeland sr was a member of his band, so you compare that track with young copelands very eerie minimalist, synth intro to the series,
which set the mood for what we had lost in the intervening generation
WaPo reports on SCOTUS Murthy v. Missouri oral arguments. They claim indications are SCOTUS will allow govt. to pressure social media companies. Bad news, if true.
I find it easy to appreciate music from different eras, but I agree with Rufus about the 1980’s. It seemed great at the time, but I don’t think it will hold up. I would be very curious to know how 20th century popular music holds up in a few centuries.
As for 21st century popular music, I don’t think it can hold a candle to the 60’s and 70’s, or even the 80’s for that matter. But there is so much phenominal music today that is out there if you go and look for it. I wonder if there may be someone under the radar today who will later be considered the Bach of the 21st century.
well its somewhat relative, if we are to go by amadeus, (which isn’t a reliable guide)* mozart was considered outre in his day, in his choice of melody as well as behavior
*for one thing mozart and salieri were not mortal enemies, maybe the austrian emperor wasn’t so much of a fop, (ymmv)
the Bezos cannot consider there would be a viewpoint that doesn’t fail to line up against it’s consensus hence ‘democracy dies in darkness’
“As for 21st century popular music, I don’t think it can hold a candle to the 60’s and 70’s, or even the 80’s for that matter.”
Was just at a wedding this past weekend…lots of late 20 somethings; borderline early Gen Z, late Millennials. The music was, to me atrocious. All remixed, autotuned, set at a constant 120 b/minute, lyrics totally unintelligible, and the crowd was loving every minute of the 3 hours of the constant noise. I weep for the loss of actual music.
or this one that was part of the best of the marvel soundtracks
its supposed to evoke the war years but it was actually recorded at in the aftermath, so it would more befit a noir film,
I’m 63. I love all kinds of music. Some techno, of course rock, Byzantine chant. But what I always have on background in my house is the easy listening music from the 70’s. That music makes me calm and collected in these bad times. Ultimate fudd music.
Here is a link of music combining the West Virginia mountain voice and Byzantine chant: God is with Us
one is reminded how barry levinson’s vietnam era piece, good morning vietnam, has a foil in bruno kirby, who is pushing percy faith https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Wd3dlEvodk
as opposed to the popular rock music of that era, it also has some great louis armstrong on the track, in an ironic setting, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqhCQZaH4Vs
miguel,
from wikipedia, so it has to be true 😉
According to history professor Hugh Wilford, there is nothing in Copeland’s CIA files to suggest he was a professional musician, but “several relatives and friends have testified to his musical ability.” Copeland’s books contain “several impressive statements about his days as a jazz musician,” including that “he spent a week playing fourth trumpet in the Glenn Miller orchestra,” although this claim has been discredited.
I said he was a member of the bad, I didn’t say for how long, years later he and eichelberger, who was in advertising, helped nasser topple King Farouk and set up the Mukharabat, along with other guests like Skorzeny and co, later they let Saddam Hussein take a meeting when he was exiled in Cairo, so maybe if he had focused more on his musical skills, well more trouble would not have come down later,
There’s no shortage of fantastic music being created today no matter what musical genre you may be interested in. The problem is, you have to put the effort in to actually find it. The traditional venues (Radio, MTV ect.) for making people aware of new music are no longer really applicable in the modern age of music streaming.
If you’re interested in finding new music that you may like, you have to either do your own research online or you have to be willing to make use of playlists on streaming services that are either algorithmically generated based on what you’ve listened to in the past or curated by people with similar tastes to yours.
But the reality is that most adults aren’t truly that interested in finding new music. Generally most adults tend to prefer listing to whatever music they liked when they were young and have little to no interest in anything beyond that.
But yeah, great music is always being made. For example, if you like the Beatles and the Beach Boys and wonder if there are any younglings making music like that, you can always check out The Lemon Twigs.
Bauxite @12:43pm,
I agree. Songs like Softcell’s “Tainted Love” and Gary Neuman’s, “Cars” were groundbreaking, and seemed very important at the time, but they are almost unlistenable now.
Dolby’s, “Blinded me with Science” is an exception. Dolby did a lot of cutting edge stuff, but I think the song holds up. Even the video was well done, for the time. “The Age of Wireless” album also had great cover art.
IrishOtter49 @10:20 AM above, have you ever heard the Irish Civil War song “The Irish Volunteer”? A great song and one that I would bet your forebears sang. You can find some good versions on YouTube.
“My father’s view was that democracy was like two wolves and a sheep voting on what’s for dinner,” says Stewart, “and indeed in the Arab world it’s very much like that. My father wasn’t in the business of exporting democracy. He was in the business of getting the oil to the West by hook or by crook.”
Miles thought the CIA went downhill after Dwight Eisenhower left the White House. “Although engaged in the same skulduggery it was much less successful,” says Stewart. “Kennedy, Nixon, they all f**ked it up. Kennedy didn’t understand the military jargon. He didn’t understand that ‘a fair possibility of success’ means ‘you’re f**ked’.”
Things only got worse. “Instead of my father going in there and pulling some strings – a little bit of bribery here, a little bit of disinformation there, and hey, we’ve got a new guy in there who’s much more copacetic with our oil needs – decades later they went in and killed 100,000 Iraqis. That’s. F**ked. Up.”
Nonapod:
Thing is, you didn’t used to have to search for good music, as in a treasure hunt for something obscure or hidden. Good music used to find you.
well nasser didn’t stay bought did he, I guess the shah on balance, did better until his cancer diagnosis, maybe he should have targeted the ayatollah, more directly when he was exiled in Iraq, Kennedy did follow the land reform plan, that angered the merchants, that failed in vietnam and they put the kibosh on it during el salvador, (that was jude wannisky’s interpretation) as well as the social reforms that angered the mullahs,
curiously that was the same combo mossadecq ran afoul of)(something taheri noticed in nest of spies) kermit roosevelt was little help either,
Now the gaullist didnt have a better clue about either country as ken timmerman notes re both of their nuclear programs
neo @ 2:21pm,
I disagree. At least, in my youth, a lot of awful music found me. The good stuff? I had to search for that. 95% or more of what the rock stations were playing in Chicago was garbage that has not stood the test of time. WXRT at least played offbeat stuff. A lot of that was also not very good, but at least it was different. There was great jazz and blues on the air, but I was one of few teens seeking it out and I had few peers to discuss that with.
How many songs that hit the Billboard Top Ten over the decades are songs that you think are good?
Juxtapose to my generation and the ’80s list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billboard_Year-End_Hot_100_singles_of_1980
Almost none on the ’80s list that I like and it’s hard to imagine many of them still being covered by acts playing today. The ’70s list has a lot that are still covered, even though they are ten years older than the ’80s list.
For folks a bit older than me, I guess a lot of good music was in the air, even on pop stations.
Several centenarians among those photo subjects. A picture is worth a hundred years?
(That Oxford don pic is faked, BTW. That’s H. Kissinger.)
Rufus T. Firefly:
I didn’t say there wasn’t also plenty of awful music available and in the public eye. But good music was also popular. I like some of those 1980 songs in that list, actually, but we’re also talking about the 1980s as a whole, in which some of the most popular bands were excellent in my opinion (your mileage may differ on the details): Dire Straits, Queen, and The Eagles being my favorites in that particular time frame. Here’s a list of the popular favorites. I think it was in general a very good era in music.
Lieberman added, “Can you imagine Sen. Schumer or anybody else in the US government saying to the Brits, ‘We don’t like your prime minister. It’s really time for you to dump him’? Oh my God, there’d be outrage all around.
Richard Cook, that’s a good choice for Clean Monday! Good strength to you.
Civilization has a lot of pieces moving at different speeds. Have the arts really progressed much since the modernism of the early 20th century? Has scholarship in the humanities advanced very far since the 1960s? America may have peaked in 1945 or 1965. The Eighties were an Indian Summer for the US (they were also an Indian Summer for popular music, which had also peaked in earlier decades). They were followed by the “Unilateral Moment” of the Nineties, which was either wasted or doomed to be short-lived. Our current mess started in this century, though I couldn’t say exactly when.
________
Billy Joel song: Just the Way You Are
Bruno Mars different song: Just the Way You Are
Today’s news: During his residency in Las Vegas, Bruno Mars has racked up $50 million dollars in gambling debts, so MGM effectively “owns” him now.
Neo I love this history in pictures and film. Often looking up old actors in early movies to see how many acting in silent films to be around during the Civil War.
that seems a rather staggering sum, mc hammer like, which is sad because one of the few new song writers that put some thought into their lyrics,
I didn’t realize MTV first broadcast August 1, 1981 The two hours starts with an Apollo launch followed by the MTV trademark of an astronaut on the moon with an MTV flag.
The first song was a brilliant choice: the Buggles one hit, “Video Killed the Radio Star.” (I actually saw the Buggles open for Lene Lovich at a small venue in Cambridge.)
There are a number of forgotten acts such as “The Shoes” and Rupert Hine, but otherwise it was solid pop rock for the time — Pat Benatar, the Who, the Pretenders, Stevie Nicks, Tom Petty, Phil Collins, Paul McCartney, and Juice Newton.
I thought 80s music was pretty great. At least boys and girls still knew how to have fun. A lost art in the 21th C.
It’s hard for me to look at the ’80s unbiasedly, I too came of age in that era, but “… the height of civilization?”
Yes, the height of civilization. Reagan was president, and America had her swagger back. The Berlin Wall came down, socialism and communism were in full retreat, and freedom was on the march worldwide. We were flying Space Shuttles and SR-71s; the Strategic Defense Initiative was making nuclear weapons impotent and obsolete and pushing the Evil Empire onto the dustbin of history.
Martin Luther King’s dream came true that decade with the emergence of a culture of meritocracy and individual liberty. The internet was creating a truly global civilization of peace, prosperity, and liberty. With the Space Shuttle and the upcoming Space Station we were beginning the transition of humanity from a terrestrial to a solar species.
The future was so bright, as the popular song went, we had to wear shades.
All of this was reflected in the music, movies, and TV of the age. The hippie parents of the 60s and 70s were left behind, and Alex P. Keaton became the future. What a glorious time to be alive!
Damn do I miss it!!
then it was followed by bill clinton, not immediately but he caused enough mischief in manifold ways, some hollywood youth, like the brat pack, leaned left, but not in the overwhelming way we saw with the pledge to obama, of course much of Reagan stood for, had to be lied about, with reporters like Andrea Mitchell, insisting they hadn’t been hard enough on him (she the other side of Chris Wallace’s hive mind) we saw the NC-17 relationship that most of the press had with Clinton, but he wasn’t left enough, so the media conjured up their icon,
President Bartlett,
Re: 80s
I don’t know how far I’d go with the 80s as a pinnacle of Western Civ or America, but it was amazing in its ways and American confidence, as mentioned above, was off the charts.
That ain’t a bad thing.
Just to watch “Ferris Bueller’s Day Off,” a silly teen comedy, nonetheless is to realize how far we’ve gone into doubt and self-flagellation.
That is a bad thing.
Re: More AI
So Elon Musk, in his quest for truly Open Source AI, has released Grok, an AI ChatBot one can download from GitHub and go Do-It-Yourself on a respectably powerful AI, only a few years away from cutting-edge.
Igor Babuschkin, another young AI mover and shaker, went from a German technical school to Google’s DeepMind AI division, then to Elon’s xAI to develop a rival chatbot to ChatGPT — Grok.
The fun bit in the video is the YouTuber’s incredulity at the Conduct of Conduct for Grok from Babuschkin is:
_______________________
Be excellent to each other.
_______________________
Someone isn’t up on his 90s cultural references, i.e. “Bill & Ted’s Excellent Adventure”:
Happy Clean Monday to you Phillip. The islands are awakening from winter slumber. Yesterday was very good day for psaria.
I know younger people are sick of boomers talking about how good things were in the good old days (not that it is different with any other generation) but there was an unusual amount and variety of music available on the radio in the 1950s and 60s.
The somewhat oversimplified story: before the advent of television – around 1950 – the “alphabet” broadcast networks were *radio* networks. Television basically killed network radio, and there were hundreds or even thousands of radio stations all over the US in search of some new programming, and the rising tide of “roots” music, country and blues and gospel, from the hinterlands filled the bill for many of them. Giving rise to rock ‘n roll as well as Top 40 radio which at the time was was much looser, more innovative and less corporate controlled. The radio stations around my hometown of Hartford, CT had playlists much larger than 40 with lots of turnover when I was a teenager in the 60s and I got to hear an incredible amount of music which still influences me strongly today (including my musical career/hobby).
Eventually the corporate suits figured out how to exploit this and got it under much tighter control with more ads, fewer songs and shorter playlists. But for a while there you could hear almost anything on AM radio, and later FM.
In the 60s my local Top 40 radio station(s) would play pop, rock, country & western, rhythm & blues, easy listening, and novelty songs: whatever was selling a lot of records. Unimaginable today.
Xylourgos, hello! I’m glad you’re enjoying things there.
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In the piano man thread, commenter mkent, writing about the ’80s, raises an interesting point.
It’s hard for me to look at the ’80s unbiasedly, I too came of age in that era, but “… the height of civilization?”
It was a very optimistic time in America (and a lot of the world), especially after the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989. Were the Roaring ’20s more optimistic? The ’50s? All three eras were a time of fast, economic growth in America. That certainly had something to do with the zeitgeist.
Although I like a lot of ’80s music (like Tom Grey, I loved to dance to it at the time,* and still do), I don’t think much of it was good, in comparison to other eras. There’s a reason artists still draw from the American Songbook. Even though a lot of ’70s music annoys me (it was the generation just prior to mine and we ’80s teens were trying to NOT be like those people), I have to admit a lot of the musicianship in the ’70s was much better and the lyrics more poignant. Synthesized, computerized music was growing to maturity in the ’80s and a lot of the songs that featured “new, unique” sounds, sound very primitive and dated now. MTV and music videos were a HUGE part of music and the culture. Again, a lot of it looks primitive and dated now, and doesn’t hold up well, but at the time it was the bees knees.
The U.S. had a good run from around 1987 – early 2000 when the dotcom bubble burst. Clinton and the Republican Congress kept things relatively on course, there was a peace dividend from the collapse of the U.S.S.R. The tech boom fueled a strong job market and the Boomers were in peak earning and spending years.
Culturally, I don’t necessarily think a lot of it will hold up**, but it was a very fun and optimistic time to come of age.
*I still remember when dancing came back. One didn’t dance to Aerosmith or Led Zeppelin, but suddenly, around spring of ’82 kids started dancing together again, after a long, decade or so lull. Bars started scrambling to find room for a dance floor, moving tables out of the way. Of course disco dancing had been the thing in the mid to late ’70s, but for youth who listened to rock and bars that featured rock and/or country juke boxes, there were no dance floors.
**Although I don’t think a lot of the art was great (how many ’80s films make top 100 lists?), it was optimistic. And shiny. And new.
Rufus, sorry but you are wrong. The Music from the mid 50’s up to some of the early Beatles is still the best. And the best to dance too.
But yes, the time after VN war does seem to be the best of times, and for some the worst of times.
On another note, I see there is another push for reparations or in other words give us more money. I want my share. I had two Great Uncles die in the Civil War so I want my loot. Of course they were Confederates but that shouldn’t matter, right?
SHIREHOME,
In my comment I agree with you, that the music from the ’80s doesn’t hold up and wasn’t even as good as the music of the ’70s.
’50s? I’ll take Gershwin and Porter over the Big Bopper and Buddy Holly.
I also had two great uncles who died in the Civil War. Another was grievously wounded, as was my great-grandfather. All fought for the Union and, as recent immigrants (legal!) from Ireland, all spoke Gaelic or Gaelic/English as their first language when they answered the call to the colors — as volunteers.
No reparations will be paid.
I remember the 70s on the radio i became more aware in the mtv era 82-
Tom Grey and anyone interested in ’80s music:
Rick Beato has finished a trilogy of interviewing the trio that were the Police. He interviews Copeland, Summers and Sumner separately and you can find the videos on his channel: https://www.youtube.com/@RickBeato
I enjoyed the Summers interview the most. I still probably like Copeland the most, he’s always full of energy and opinions, but I’d already watched a few Copeland interviews, and read a fair amount about him. I didn’t know much about Andy Summers except that he was a really talented guitarist and about 10 years older than the other two. It was great to hear him talk about it all and he’s incredibly sharp for an 80 year old.
Dr. Johnson kicks a stone: Goodman, Carnegie, 1938
sdferr,
When my band plays that version of the song it’s like grabbing a hold of a moving bullet train and hanging on for dear life. What a great arrangement! I grew up a few miles from Goodman and Krupa.
Louis Prima doesn’t get enough credit as a composer.
SHIREHOME,
Which Beatles music is …the best to dance too?”
I really like their Cavern covers era when they were mimicking Buddy Holly and the Crickets (hence, the Beatles name), and dancing to that stuff, but after their first three albums and the few covers on “Beatles for Sale” what does one dance to? “Day in the Life?”
I’ve always placed the height of western civilization at around 1787, around when Mozart composed Don Giovanni, Kant revised his First Critique, Gibbon finished his grand life’s work and the US held her constitutional convention. The first cloud on the horizon—indicating that suicide would become a respectable alternative—The Sorrows of Young Werther, also appeared that year. Since then it has been a crazy ride, often fun with, often, danceable accompaniment, but a decline nevertheless, accelerating in these latter days.
of course copelands part in creating the equalizer, which encapsulated the late ed koch era, before we went to full dystopia under dinkins, (which has become hold my beer times under adams) I didn’t know then, about the copeland backstory,
the band member who became the lead spymaster in the middle east
desertowl,
Hard to think of any architecture from the ’80s that will hold up to long term scrutiny.
Regarding 1787, is it a decline, or is it just that the great minds had already figured out the essential stuff? I can’t think of a better government forming document than our Constitution and I can’t argue with Mozart.
I like the Chrysler Building and “Rhapsody in Blue.”
It was his father, I believe, which is why he (the little drummer boy) grew up in the M.E. (Beirut mostly, IIRC).
re architecture, I thought rand’s fountainhead, which is a mashnote for frank lloyd wright, went too much in disdain for classical forms, then you look at bauhaus and increasing more brutalist architecture, like my high school campus,
the building plans for public schools in south florida are even worse
miguel,
Public High School architecture closely mirrors prison architecture.
Form follows function, as the saying goes.
his problem is he didn’t drink enough
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/17/general-sent-home-disgrace-afghanistan-drinking-champagne/
I listen to a lot of music from the late 30’s, the 40’s and the 50’s. Swing is great, as is the Blues and R&B from the 40’s and 50’s. I am 77 and have a hard time visualizing my Mom and Dad dancing to the music. But I bet they did
consider this one emblematic of the 40s,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CI-0E_jses
copeland sr was a member of his band, so you compare that track with young copelands very eerie minimalist, synth intro to the series,
which set the mood for what we had lost in the intervening generation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz8gAfRvPjE
WaPo reports on SCOTUS Murthy v. Missouri oral arguments. They claim indications are SCOTUS will allow govt. to pressure social media companies. Bad news, if true.
I find it easy to appreciate music from different eras, but I agree with Rufus about the 1980’s. It seemed great at the time, but I don’t think it will hold up. I would be very curious to know how 20th century popular music holds up in a few centuries.
As for 21st century popular music, I don’t think it can hold a candle to the 60’s and 70’s, or even the 80’s for that matter. But there is so much phenominal music today that is out there if you go and look for it. I wonder if there may be someone under the radar today who will later be considered the Bach of the 21st century.
well its somewhat relative, if we are to go by amadeus, (which isn’t a reliable guide)* mozart was considered outre in his day, in his choice of melody as well as behavior
*for one thing mozart and salieri were not mortal enemies, maybe the austrian emperor wasn’t so much of a fop, (ymmv)
the Bezos cannot consider there would be a viewpoint that doesn’t fail to line up against it’s consensus hence ‘democracy dies in darkness’
“As for 21st century popular music, I don’t think it can hold a candle to the 60’s and 70’s, or even the 80’s for that matter.”
Was just at a wedding this past weekend…lots of late 20 somethings; borderline early Gen Z, late Millennials. The music was, to me atrocious. All remixed, autotuned, set at a constant 120 b/minute, lyrics totally unintelligible, and the crowd was loving every minute of the 3 hours of the constant noise. I weep for the loss of actual music.
or this one that was part of the best of the marvel soundtracks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP0tHmoc1rs
its supposed to evoke the war years but it was actually recorded at in the aftermath, so it would more befit a noir film,
I’m 63. I love all kinds of music. Some techno, of course rock, Byzantine chant. But what I always have on background in my house is the easy listening music from the 70’s. That music makes me calm and collected in these bad times. Ultimate fudd music.
Here is a link of music combining the West Virginia mountain voice and Byzantine chant: God is with Us
https://youtu.be/BcFhKedJOq0?si=DnhbYM7NJcBVeLiT
one is reminded how barry levinson’s vietnam era piece, good morning vietnam, has a foil in bruno kirby, who is pushing percy faith https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Wd3dlEvodk
as opposed to the popular rock music of that era, it also has some great louis armstrong on the track, in an ironic setting,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqhCQZaH4Vs
miguel,
from wikipedia, so it has to be true 😉
I said he was a member of the bad, I didn’t say for how long, years later he and eichelberger, who was in advertising, helped nasser topple King Farouk and set up the Mukharabat, along with other guests like Skorzeny and co, later they let Saddam Hussein take a meeting when he was exiled in Cairo, so maybe if he had focused more on his musical skills, well more trouble would not have come down later,
There’s no shortage of fantastic music being created today no matter what musical genre you may be interested in. The problem is, you have to put the effort in to actually find it. The traditional venues (Radio, MTV ect.) for making people aware of new music are no longer really applicable in the modern age of music streaming.
If you’re interested in finding new music that you may like, you have to either do your own research online or you have to be willing to make use of playlists on streaming services that are either algorithmically generated based on what you’ve listened to in the past or curated by people with similar tastes to yours.
But the reality is that most adults aren’t truly that interested in finding new music. Generally most adults tend to prefer listing to whatever music they liked when they were young and have little to no interest in anything beyond that.
But yeah, great music is always being made. For example, if you like the Beatles and the Beach Boys and wonder if there are any younglings making music like that, you can always check out The Lemon Twigs.
Bauxite @12:43pm,
I agree. Songs like Softcell’s “Tainted Love” and Gary Neuman’s, “Cars” were groundbreaking, and seemed very important at the time, but they are almost unlistenable now.
Dolby’s, “Blinded me with Science” is an exception. Dolby did a lot of cutting edge stuff, but I think the song holds up. Even the video was well done, for the time. “The Age of Wireless” album also had great cover art.
This is an interesting, eight year old video of Dolby explaining how he put it together: https://youtu.be/MHbciVrgcGA?si=kwTACGv-8Y1LLkQC
IrishOtter49 @10:20 AM above, have you ever heard the Irish Civil War song “The Irish Volunteer”? A great song and one that I would bet your forebears sang. You can find some good versions on YouTube.
To tie my and miguel’s conversation back to the theme of neo’s blog, this Irish Times interview with Stewart Copeland about his father, Miles, features some interesting conversation about neoconservatism, https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/music/my-dad-the-spy-stewart-copeland-on-his-father-s-secret-life-as-a-cia-agent-1.4322721
Nonapod:
Thing is, you didn’t used to have to search for good music, as in a treasure hunt for something obscure or hidden. Good music used to find you.
well nasser didn’t stay bought did he, I guess the shah on balance, did better until his cancer diagnosis, maybe he should have targeted the ayatollah, more directly when he was exiled in Iraq, Kennedy did follow the land reform plan, that angered the merchants, that failed in vietnam and they put the kibosh on it during el salvador, (that was jude wannisky’s interpretation) as well as the social reforms that angered the mullahs,
curiously that was the same combo mossadecq ran afoul of)(something taheri noticed in nest of spies) kermit roosevelt was little help either,
Now the gaullist didnt have a better clue about either country as ken timmerman notes re both of their nuclear programs
neo @ 2:21pm,
I disagree. At least, in my youth, a lot of awful music found me. The good stuff? I had to search for that. 95% or more of what the rock stations were playing in Chicago was garbage that has not stood the test of time. WXRT at least played offbeat stuff. A lot of that was also not very good, but at least it was different. There was great jazz and blues on the air, but I was one of few teens seeking it out and I had few peers to discuss that with.
How many songs that hit the Billboard Top Ten over the decades are songs that you think are good?
Well…. Just a minute… maybe your generation has a valid point. I was going to reference the Billboard Hot 100 from 1970 as an example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billboard_Year-End_Hot_100_singles_of_1970
but I took a look at it and there are some classics on there.
Juxtapose to my generation and the ’80s list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billboard_Year-End_Hot_100_singles_of_1980
Almost none on the ’80s list that I like and it’s hard to imagine many of them still being covered by acts playing today. The ’70s list has a lot that are still covered, even though they are ten years older than the ’80s list.
For folks a bit older than me, I guess a lot of good music was in the air, even on pop stations.
Several centenarians among those photo subjects. A picture is worth a hundred years?
(That Oxford don pic is faked, BTW. That’s H. Kissinger.)
Rufus T. Firefly:
I didn’t say there wasn’t also plenty of awful music available and in the public eye. But good music was also popular. I like some of those 1980 songs in that list, actually, but we’re also talking about the 1980s as a whole, in which some of the most popular bands were excellent in my opinion (your mileage may differ on the details): Dire Straits, Queen, and The Eagles being my favorites in that particular time frame. Here’s a list of the popular favorites. I think it was in general a very good era in music.
Props to The Bangles too!
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=walk+like+an+egyptian+you+tube+&iax=videos&ia=videos&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DCv6tuzHUuuk
Joe Lieberman slams Schumer for anti-Netanyahu speech: ‘Can’t ever remember anything like it’
Richard Cook, that’s a good choice for Clean Monday! Good strength to you.
Civilization has a lot of pieces moving at different speeds. Have the arts really progressed much since the modernism of the early 20th century? Has scholarship in the humanities advanced very far since the 1960s? America may have peaked in 1945 or 1965. The Eighties were an Indian Summer for the US (they were also an Indian Summer for popular music, which had also peaked in earlier decades). They were followed by the “Unilateral Moment” of the Nineties, which was either wasted or doomed to be short-lived. Our current mess started in this century, though I couldn’t say exactly when.
________
Billy Joel song: Just the Way You Are
Bruno Mars different song: Just the Way You Are
Today’s news: During his residency in Las Vegas, Bruno Mars has racked up $50 million dollars in gambling debts, so MGM effectively “owns” him now.
Neo I love this history in pictures and film. Often looking up old actors in early movies to see how many acting in silent films to be around during the Civil War.
that seems a rather staggering sum, mc hammer like, which is sad because one of the few new song writers that put some thought into their lyrics,
Re: 80s music
Last night I went down this rabbithole:
–The Very First Two Hours Of MTV”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJtiPRDIqtI
I didn’t realize MTV first broadcast August 1, 1981 The two hours starts with an Apollo launch followed by the MTV trademark of an astronaut on the moon with an MTV flag.
The first song was a brilliant choice: the Buggles one hit, “Video Killed the Radio Star.” (I actually saw the Buggles open for Lene Lovich at a small venue in Cambridge.)
There are a number of forgotten acts such as “The Shoes” and Rupert Hine, but otherwise it was solid pop rock for the time — Pat Benatar, the Who, the Pretenders, Stevie Nicks, Tom Petty, Phil Collins, Paul McCartney, and Juice Newton.
I thought 80s music was pretty great. At least boys and girls still knew how to have fun. A lost art in the 21th C.
Yes, the height of civilization. Reagan was president, and America had her swagger back. The Berlin Wall came down, socialism and communism were in full retreat, and freedom was on the march worldwide. We were flying Space Shuttles and SR-71s; the Strategic Defense Initiative was making nuclear weapons impotent and obsolete and pushing the Evil Empire onto the dustbin of history.
Martin Luther King’s dream came true that decade with the emergence of a culture of meritocracy and individual liberty. The internet was creating a truly global civilization of peace, prosperity, and liberty. With the Space Shuttle and the upcoming Space Station we were beginning the transition of humanity from a terrestrial to a solar species.
The future was so bright, as the popular song went, we had to wear shades.
All of this was reflected in the music, movies, and TV of the age. The hippie parents of the 60s and 70s were left behind, and Alex P. Keaton became the future. What a glorious time to be alive!
Damn do I miss it!!
then it was followed by bill clinton, not immediately but he caused enough mischief in manifold ways, some hollywood youth, like the brat pack, leaned left, but not in the overwhelming way we saw with the pledge to obama, of course much of Reagan stood for, had to be lied about, with reporters like Andrea Mitchell, insisting they hadn’t been hard enough on him (she the other side of Chris Wallace’s hive mind) we saw the NC-17 relationship that most of the press had with Clinton, but he wasn’t left enough, so the media conjured up their icon,
President Bartlett,
Re: 80s
I don’t know how far I’d go with the 80s as a pinnacle of Western Civ or America, but it was amazing in its ways and American confidence, as mentioned above, was off the charts.
That ain’t a bad thing.
Just to watch “Ferris Bueller’s Day Off,” a silly teen comedy, nonetheless is to realize how far we’ve gone into doubt and self-flagellation.
That is a bad thing.
Re: More AI
So Elon Musk, in his quest for truly Open Source AI, has released Grok, an AI ChatBot one can download from GitHub and go Do-It-Yourself on a respectably powerful AI, only a few years away from cutting-edge.
–“Elon Musk STUNNING Reveal of Grok | NOT aligned, MUCH Bigger, Open Source. There is no doubt left…”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcxAYo4QyeQ
Igor Babuschkin, another young AI mover and shaker, went from a German technical school to Google’s DeepMind AI division, then to Elon’s xAI to develop a rival chatbot to ChatGPT — Grok.
The fun bit in the video is the YouTuber’s incredulity at the Conduct of Conduct for Grok from Babuschkin is:
_______________________
Be excellent to each other.
_______________________
Someone isn’t up on his 90s cultural references, i.e. “Bill & Ted’s Excellent Adventure”:
–“Keanu Reeves & Alex Winter explain: “Be excellent to each other”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gv0i8YasmEM
Party on!
There are worse cutural messages.
Happy Clean Monday to you Phillip. The islands are awakening from winter slumber. Yesterday was very good day for psaria.
I know younger people are sick of boomers talking about how good things were in the good old days (not that it is different with any other generation) but there was an unusual amount and variety of music available on the radio in the 1950s and 60s.
The somewhat oversimplified story: before the advent of television – around 1950 – the “alphabet” broadcast networks were *radio* networks. Television basically killed network radio, and there were hundreds or even thousands of radio stations all over the US in search of some new programming, and the rising tide of “roots” music, country and blues and gospel, from the hinterlands filled the bill for many of them. Giving rise to rock ‘n roll as well as Top 40 radio which at the time was was much looser, more innovative and less corporate controlled. The radio stations around my hometown of Hartford, CT had playlists much larger than 40 with lots of turnover when I was a teenager in the 60s and I got to hear an incredible amount of music which still influences me strongly today (including my musical career/hobby).
Eventually the corporate suits figured out how to exploit this and got it under much tighter control with more ads, fewer songs and shorter playlists. But for a while there you could hear almost anything on AM radio, and later FM.
In the 60s my local Top 40 radio station(s) would play pop, rock, country & western, rhythm & blues, easy listening, and novelty songs: whatever was selling a lot of records. Unimaginable today.
Xylourgos, hello! I’m glad you’re enjoying things there.