You know that hospital that supposedly was hit by Israeli fire, but it was actually a Palestinian rocket gone awry?
To refresh your memory, in case it needs refreshing: the hospital was not hit by Israeli fire, it was a Palestinian rocket that malfunctioned. It hit the hospital parking lot and not the hospital. And it killed far fewer people than the 500 alleged by Hamas.
None of that stopped the MSM from taking Hamas’ word for it and running with the story. The Big Lie got more than halfway round the world, and the correction still has not caught up because the MSM doesn’t want it to.
We still don’t know the true number who were killed in the parking lot. We also don’t know their identities. The original and and at least somewhat logical assumption is that they were patients and patients’ families and/or other civilians who had taken refuge there. But we also know that Hamas regularly uses schools and hospitals and mosques as locations to place its underground headquarters and from which to fire its rockets at Israel. In that manner, Hamas uses its own citizens as human shields, hoping to maximize its own civilian casualties in order to be able to accuse Israel and activate virtue-signalers all over the world to support the Hamas cause.
I think “diabolical” is the correct descriptive.
And now we learn that this was almost certainly true of another hospital:
The Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) provided more proof that Hamas placed its headquarters literally underneath the main hospital:
Moreover, he [IDF Spokesman Daniel Hagari] added, in Al-Shifa specifically, Hamas runs parts of its command and control center in different departments, carrying out rocket attacks against Israel and other terror activities.
“Hamas also has an entrance to its terror tunnels from inside hospital wards,” he said. “From different places inside the hospital, you can enter underground tunnels.
“Right now, terrorists move freely in Al-Shifa hospital,” Hagari continued. “Hundreds [of terrorists] fled to the hospital to hide after the massacre on October 7.
This is extraordinary, and it deepens the lies that have been presented and disseminated so widely. Tunnel entrances within a hospital? Hundreds of terrorists fleeing to this hospital to hide after October 7? It makes me wonder if the same was true of Al-Ahli, the hospital hit by the Palestinian rocket. I don’t think we’ll ever know the figures or the truth.
[ADDENDUM: I had originally confused the name of the hospital whose parking lot was hit by the rocket – Al-Ahli – with the one described as a Hamas headquarters, Al-Shifa. I’ve corrected that now. I wonder how many hospitals in Gaza aren’t built over terrorist tunnels and used as a location from which to fire rockets.]
Neo: I think you need to make one correction to your post. My understanding is that the hospital whose parking lot was hit was the Al-Ahli Baptist hospital, while the hospital described by the IDF in the Jerusalem Post article is the Al-Shifa hospital. That doesn’t mean Hamas wasn’t also operating in or around the hospital that was hit, but we should be clear about the distinction.
As to Al Shifaa, there have been reports going back a week plus that there are many Gazans (many hundreds? thousand and more? many thousands?
we can’t tell) congregating (camping out?) on the grounds around and nearby the hospital precisely because they believe the IDF won’t strike there! Hamas people? Sure. Other than Hamas people? Highly likely, though those are of course few and far between in Gaza.
Gothamite:
Thanks. I was in error; will correct.
The al Ahli hospital, often called a Baptist hospital, was founded by Anglican missionaries, was Baptist for a while, and is now managed by the Anglican Church in Jerusalem. The Jerusalem diocese is, regrettably, quite pro-Palestinian, but not to the extent of actually working with Hamas (so far as I know). Al Shifa is, I think, an Arab-run hospital, and it would be easier for Hamas to be in control of it.
Kate:
I wonder. Hamas has almost total control of Gaza, and my guess is that any charity or business or group that works there must cooperate with them to a certain extent.
“. . . how many hospitals in Gaza aren’t built over terrorist tunnels and used as a location from which to fire rockets.”
It’s quite reasonable to assume not a one, none. They’re all going to be used to military advantage.
Cyanide (Chemically, I believe, HCN) is denser than air and is extremely deadly. I would consider dropping Cyanide down the myriad Hamas tunnels. The hostages, God preserve them, are done for and must be sacrificed. Cyanide turns into a vapor at 79 degrees F. Cyanide turns into liquid form at less temperatures, it is in copious supply for a variety of industrial uses.
I’m sure that the IDF has many heavier-than-air weapons at their disposal.
Ok, so Cicero’s suggestion is bad, a non-starter from the jump, won’t happen, can’t happen, and much else. One might say a great deal more about this, but let that suffice.
Cicero, cyanide would most certainly provoke extreme world condemnation as chemical warfare, condemned ever since WWI.
May I make a slight modification? Use propane instead, wait for the right dispersion and fuel/air mix, then toss in a match.
Have you ever seen one of those LNG terminals go up? Can you imagine the force confined to the tunnel system? Depending on the interconnectedness, you might see all of Gaza City slump a few feet. And it’s all legal as far as I know. Anyone, feel free to fact-check me on this.
In principle a fuel-air explosive, or other explosive — if sappers deem such other effective — is one way to go. However! Blowing up even one hostage is most likely already off the table. Know that no hostage is present? Good, go ahead. Think you may not know? Hold it right there fella.
That’s my guess. So in many cases, I’d think, brave men are going to have to go in, kill the enemy and risk their own deaths in turn. Awful, but there we have it.
I suspect all hospitals and schools are tunneled under. The Palestinians are a group that even the rest of the Arab community want nothing do do with, because of their evil bloodlust. Killing the innocent to further their cause is, as we all know, what they do, as SOP.
Find the tunnels, and send in the propane trucks.
Neo, I am sure you are right that the Christian hospital is under pressure to cooperate with the terrorists, to exist. Also, a number of Palestinian Christian organizations are of the liberation theology variety, anti-Jewish and complaining of colonization, 75 years of oppression, etc. See this statement from some of them:
https://www.change.org/p/an-open-letter-from-palestinian-christians-to-western-church-leaders-and-theologians
Some of these groups, Sabeel, for instance, used to be seen prominently at leftist Christian gatherings in the US.
My husband has been suggesting propane for a while. The Daily Mail talks about some new thing called a sponge bomb:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12680935/SPONGE-bomb-Israel-disable-Hamas-tunnels-palestine-gaza.html
thats probably why their aquifer is busted and they need water from israel,
Sponge Bomb Spare Parts? Who doesn’t like Sponge Bomb?
All the talk of propane etc. is possible if and when the area is secure enough to bring in the explosive(s).
Kate, now THAT’s an interesting device I’d not heard about! Presumably, the Israelis would only need to do this to all the entrances they find, leaving everyone trapped below to sort out later. I like it! Satisfies sdferr’s concern as well (I think?).
Yes, Bill K. Find an entrance, plug it. Eventually Hamas would find itself either entombed or forced to exit the remaining few undiscovered places.
Sponge Bomb Spare Parts continued ….
Expanding polyurethane foams can use butane or other light hydrocarbons as the blowing agent, both the foam and blowing agent are flammable. It will cut off airflow, and could trap Hamashites in the foam (glue traps for mice but bigger). Occupational users of polyurethane (PU) two part compound foams or non foam PU products (such as truck bed liners) require supplied air respirators. Poor Hamashites, it could be an unsafe environment.
Once you seal a tunnel below ground fill the tunnel to the surface with Hamashite concrete to grade. Rinse and repeat.
Geophones could detect the tappy tap tap of Hamashites trying to break out of their tunnels. Drill rigs and HE would quiet that down.
“I wonder how many hospitals in Gaza aren’t built over terrorist tunnels and used as a location from which to fire rockets?”
I’ll vote with sdferr… likely all of them ARE. Schools too.
At the appropriate time Hamas will blow up the al-Shifa Hospital along with all the patients, doctors and assorted Palestinians sheltering there, and blame the IDF. The usual suspects in the West will buy that story hook, line and sinker and accuse Israel of genocide.
Using a hospital as a defense for your military command center is like holding up a baby to shield you from someone who is trying to shoot you. It is cowardly and depraved.
I do not believe we (or Israel) should use chemical weapons to clear tunnels insofar as we are signatories to the Geneva Convention which bars them.
There is an ancient Greek legend involving Hercules who was tasked with clearing a divine bull’s pen. The Cretan Bull. He diverted a river to clear the pen as his Seventh Task.
The Gaza strip is next to the Mediterranean Sea. Military ships have great pumping capacity. Send the Navy boys out and lay a pipe from the sea to a tunnel entrance and crank up the pumps. Fill the tunnels with sea water.
Erronius
Honestly I think there needs to be retaliation against “newsmen” that do stuff like this. Sue them for defamation, make it clear that you’re I’ll not tolerate the employing outlet into your country or any interaction with it if they do not publicly disavow. The West’s weaknesses in messaging since WWII have been massive and egregious and if we wish to prevail in the great struggles of today we need to get serious.
Turtler — it’s virtually impossible to successfully sue media for libel. Remember Ariel Sharon’s lawsuit? He proved Time lied and that they knowingly lied, but he couldn’t prove malice, which is difficult. (Though possibly easier today with so much in the way of emails and texts.) Time, of course, trumpeted it as a HUGE victory for them, as if he hadn’t proved they lied and knowingly lied. So did many other publications.
if I remember the context there, gideon levy the times’ stringer, made some kind of insinuation, that the massacre was due to some revenge by sharon, over one of his sons, of course it was a fraticidal grudge match perpetrated by a phalangist commander, who quelle surprise, defected to the Syrian side, the IDF eventually bllew him up good, though Elias Hobeika was his name,
ht Farah DeBouky
Egyptian state affiliated news agency Cairo 24 quotes a source stating that Egyptian telecommunication companies can’t extend access into Gaza because it’s against international law
@Someone Else
Oh I do. But that I think underlined why protections are too broad. And after proving dishonesty frankly malice should be assumed as a logical conclusion for dishonesty.
But even without those changes, people still need to go after these scum and retaliate. Including touting the relevant facts loud and proud, even if the formal sentence falls short of justice. Show how these people lie. Show how they are dishonest. And retaliate politically, economically, and personally. Until that happens this will keep happening.
summary by the dog trainer
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1985-01-25-mn-9288-story.html
IDF released another interrogation: https://youtu.be/4hd6JGX8gwE?si=hbzRVVbAt4Bc1njp
This goes to the subject of tunnels, hospitals, their use and disposition, and the attitudes of Gazans toward them.
The Presbyterian Church USA released a statement on Oct 20 that a hospital had been bombed with hundreds of dead. No blame assigned at that point.
Talked to them yesterday and was told they’d update in a week or two after they’ve heard from their team [whatever that is] on the ground.
IOW, about the time it’s cemented in the memories of the chumps, there may be a detail or two added.
Typical of the PCUSA since forever.