Home » On Israel’s position now

Comments

On Israel’s position now — 32 Comments

  1. The interviewer is good, she asks hard questions but doesn’t interrupt or browbeat the speaker (as so may do).
    Israel’s spokesman is very clear that this is the end of Hamas; so far, all the Israeli leadership is united on that priority.

  2. The MSM are truly a repugnant lot. Bravo to anyone who can stomach beyond 3 minutes of this video at a time. I’m working through it with frequent breaks.

  3. ‘This is the end of Hamas and (to Iran and Hezbollah) you could be next.’ Israel spokesman.

    About time.

    Prayers for the IDF and Israel.

  4. Some of my notes; see the comments for more.
    The first few are applicable to Neo’s immediately prior post.
    “Step Out Of The Way – We Are Coming For Hamas” | Israeli Spokesman Avi Hyman On Evacuating Gaza – YouTube
    ***********
    At least the interviewer admits Hamas uses human shields, she objects to the difficulty of moving so many people that quickly >

    @m.k.wallner3145 1 hour ago Why is she saying its impossible to evacuate the north of Gaza? Israel gave a 24 hour notice, and the walk from the farthest part to where they would be safe is a 4 hour walk. Those who have legs can walk that distance, and those who cannot walk can be carried. So, what seems to be the problem?

    @Ms.Earthlings.Musings 1 hour ago They can step out of the way. The UN said the other day75% of civilians were already out of the affected areas.

    @RonaldMutebo 1 hour ago The longer it takes for the Palestinians to leave Northern Gaza, the easier for Hamas to take out their weapons and military equipment with them. So I understand why Israel wants everybody to move out swiftly. It has to prevent Hamas from having enough time to do that.

    @elizabethannegrey6285 9 minutes ago I didn’t notice that Hamas told civilians to move away because of potential harm. They were invading Israel SPECIFICALLY to CAUSE harm – raping, torturing, murdering, and decapitating. They could hardly have expected that the Israelis would not retaliate. They could have anticipated strong action on the part if the Israelis.

    *******
    TO THE NEIGHBORING countries: Do not try us; this is the end of Hamas and you could be next. >

    @Gideon01 37 minutes ago (edited) He touched on one of the most important points that most people are missing in the whole situation: It’s not only between Israel and Gaza. All of Israel’s lovely neighbours are watching very closely, waiting for Israel to show the tiniest sign of mercy, which is interpreted as weakness in this thug neighbourhood. Israel cannot afford to be seen as weak at this point. The Arabs and Iranians only respect might. They do not care about Human rights and values. If Israel so much as blinks, they will be setting themselves up for the next catastrophe.

    @DeroiterHere 19 minutes ago I something the other day that fits this narrative perfectly – If someone stands behind you, protect them. If they stand beside you, respect them. If they are coming after you, show no mercy! ? >

    ****
    His message to the hostage holders – if they are harmed you will be obliterated if it takes 20 years >

    There is general agreement on this point.
    ***
    This old quote was directed to whom? He probably didn’t mean it to be applicable to the Israelis, but it is. >
    @inspectorBetty 36 minutes ago “If you’re not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.” Malcolm X >

    Of course, Hamas believes that the papers turn people against them, but that doesn’t fit the archival evidence.

  5. The end of Hamas? I read somewhere that the leadership of Hamas took off for parts unknown (Lebanon or Iran…?) before the attack this week, which would make ending Hamas rather problematic. You can’t decapitate the leadership Gaza if the leadership isn’t in Gaza.

  6. It’s approximately 11 miles from the northern border of Gaza to the wadi south of which the Israelis have asked the Gazans to move. Four and a half hours walking from the tips, and most people, of course, have shorter distances or powered transportation. 24 hours is more than sufficient, where determination to get out is concerned. So, bollocks to this “can’t be done” horsepucky.

  7. Gringo:

    Israel is well aware of that. It probably knows where they are. This operation is for the tunnels, ammunition, and the lower-downs. I am sure many of the latter will also evacuate. I’m also sure Israel has some plan for that. Whether it will work I haven’t a clue.

  8. Mossad tracked down and killed all those involved with the 1972 Munich Olympics Massacre. It took a while.

    Hamas are dead men walking.

    From the river
    to the sea.
    What of Gaza?
    used to be.

  9. If I were the Israeli spokesman, I would simplify the debate to prevent the woman from trying to draw him into making a moral equivalance between Hamas and Israel.

    ** Hamas has committed war crimes by attacking and murdering more than 1500 Israeli men, women, and children. To protect its citizens from Hamas, Israel has declared war on Hamas and the resulting deaths of Palestinians are causalities of the war initiated by Hamas. **

  10. }}} Aesopfan: The interviewer is good, she asks hard questions but doesn’t interrupt or browbeat the speaker (as so may do)

    She’s asking “Will you stop beating your wife?” questions, though.

    She continually repeats the “fact” that “the people cannot get out of the way.”

    This is ridiculous. They’re suggesting that there is no safe place… Apparently, Hamas is like one in three people? Anyone there who is a civilian knows where the eph the Hamas IS. Where their facilities, headquarters, and equipment are. They can be careful to not be in any of those locations, they can find relatives outside the area if they live too close, and go stay with them for a time.

    They are not going to carpetbomb the area, the attacks will be as much targeted as possible.

    In the end, HAMAS started this. And these people VOTED Hamas in repeatedly.

    Another of her loaded questions resolve around the “this seems like revenge”.

    She SHOULD be asking about the FACT that Israel has REPEATEDLY offered olive branch after olive branch to these fuckers. First they handed over the Gaza Strip itself, which they had no need to do, to Palestine so they would have their own country. At the time they handed it over, it was the second most prosperous region of the ME, with Jews and Palestinians working together towards peaceful aims. So, what happened? The Pally put Hamas in charge, who promptly turned it into a total shithole, and invited reprisals by locating weapons emplacements in Schools, in Hospitals.

    And this latest round of attacks by Hamas were enabled by Israel trying, once more, to “let things be”.

    Hamas responds with “Fuck you, DIE DIE DIE!!!” and insane atrocities.

    Turning the other cheek is not called for here. Unfortunately, borderline genocide is called for, because HAMAS HAS CALLED FOR IT. The only answer CAN be tit-for-tat. Anything less is just flat out stupid.

    “Me or them? OK, I vote for them. And my vote is backed up by a very capable military.”

    More: What Paul said…

  11. Neo replies to me:
    Israel is well aware of that (that the top leaders split before last week). It probably knows where they are. This operation is for the tunnels, ammunition, and the lower-downs.

    The Israeli order for residents of north Gaza to move to south Gaza now makes more sense to me. It’s not for them to get out of north Gaza while Israel turns all of north Gaza to rubble. Instead, clear out civilians while Israel destroys the war-related infrastructure in north Gaza, which (one hopes) is far from every building there.

    Go to it, Israel!

  12. Gringo:

    That’s the way I interpret it at this point, anyway. I don’t have a pipeline to the IDF headquarters, fortunately or unfortunately.They are keeping pretty mum on the details, and rightly so. I detect, however, that this operation is not business as usual.

  13. Gringo said: “You can’t decapitate the leadership [of] Gaza if the leadership isn’t in Gaza.”

    But the leadership of Gaza – Hamas – will have nothing to lead if you eliminate all of its soldiers and followers.

  14. Gringo:

    Incredibly hard to keep absolutely off the grid today. You can bet that Israel has embeds all over the mid-East and if one of them didn’t mind dying to take the targets out, they’re gone.

  15. Seemingly a bazillion different sources reporting on this issue.

    One source which is straightforward, authoritative, and useful is the information being put out by the IDF, the Israel Defense Force, using every possible platform.

  16. Since the IDF told the civilians to leave, remaining casualties belong to Hamas. Clever move.

  17. Is Bibi the OMB of Israel and the big thinkers?

    Notably absent in the MEMRI article are Hamas or Iran as causes for a regional war.

  18. Iran, who just a few weeks ago got $6 billion dollars from the United States, built the military capabilities of Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad. They trained them, built for them the plan and supported its execution.

  19. Israeli troops who entered the Gaza Strip on Friday to conduct “localized raids” found and recovered the remains of people who have been missing since Hamas’s shock terror massacre on Saturday, according to reports in the Hebrew media.

    Haaretz reported Friday that armored and infantry forces who went into the Palestinian enclave, where an estimated 150-200 people are being held hostage by Hamas, retrieved the bodies of an unknown number of people and found some items belonging to people still missing since Saturday’s surprise assault when Hamas terrorists infiltrated Israel by land, sea, and air, and rampaged through Gaza border communities and a music festival, killing more than 1,300 people, a majority of them civilians.

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/troops-on-localized-raids-into-gaza-said-to-recover-bodies-items-of-missing-people/

  20. It’s Different This Time Dept:

    It seems the $6 bil of Iranian funds has indeed been refrozen, though it’s not clear how much may already have been transferred to Iran for “humanitarian purposes.”
    ______________________________

    Wally Adeyemo, the deputy Treasury secretary, told House Democrats that Iran would no longer have access to $6 billion in funds that had been negotiated as part of a prisoner release deal last month.

    The United States and Qatar have agreed to deny Iran access to $6 billion recently transferred to the nation as part of a deal between Washington and Tehran that led to the release of five imprisoned Americans from Iran last month.

    Wally Adeyemo, the deputy Treasury secretary, told House Democrats on Thursday that Iran would no longer have access to the funds, according to a person familiar with the matter. The money was under close supervision and strict conditions that it be used only for humanitarian purposes.

    U.S. officials did not describe the money as frozen permanently but said that case-by-case applications to spend it under the current arrangement will be denied for the foreseeable future.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/12/world/middleeast/us-qatar-iran-prisoner-deal.html

  21. Pace @sdferr, I want to know who the hell these “experts” were and who they weren’t listening to.

    The expert class labored under similar delusions. “It wasn’t so much a misreading of what was in [Hamas’] hearts as it was the sense that they had accommodated to reality,” said Elliott Abrams, a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations and deputy national security adviser under George W. Bush, including the period when Hamas won the only Palestinian parliamentary elections in history and took over the Gaza Strip. “They understood they couldn’t destroy Israel, and that their real goal in these 15 years was to take over the West Bank as they had taken over Gaza—to create the maximum amount of violence and terror in the West Bank, and to protect their rule in Gaza. You have to look fairly widely to find someone who didn’t basically accept that view.” Abrams did not exempt himself from this group.

    The irony is that I am not even that opposed to the general summary of this, but there are massive caveats.

    “They understood they couldn’t destroy Israel YET.” They wanted to take power in the West Bank without sacrificing control of Gaza, but also to establish powerful alliances to sustain a war. I am just an autist history nerd but I immediately concluded that Hamas actions were fundamentally shaping operations designed to gradually bring the True Dream closer, mixed in with some pinpricks to make the Jews bleed, Fatah look worse, and maintain the blood lust support. I have a Bachelor’s Degree n a Frankenstein Degree partially of my own design from a community college and am not considered much of an expert by anybody that matters on the grand scheme of things, and I certainly have gotten things wrong (such as Putin escalating the war), but I could very clearly see this.

    The horrifying thing is that in some ways, Hamas’s leadership IS pragmatic and realist. They are just operating under a very different incentive structure and values system than we are. And now we all pay the price for this folly, some more than others. And it never crossed my mind that Hamas leadership WOULDN’T delight in videos of mass murders of children for its own purpose as well as that of Jihad; I’ve studied too much Pallywood to know that. So the question I have is: what now?!?

  22. Utter gaslighting hogwash

    sdferr:

    Cite? Reasoning? Anything?

    Perhaps the announcement isn’t as straightforward as it sounds. Nonetheless, I find it interesting that the Biden administration feels obliged to claim that the funds have been refrozen.

    And if it’s “gaslighting” now that the Iranian funds are frozen, were the funds ever truly frozen?

  23. I don’t believe you need know more than that is my opinion huxley, formed by reading many points of view, whether from the Iranian perspective, the Israeli perspective, the Biden/Obama administrations’ perspective, the Qatari perspective, und so weiter, and consideration thereof along with the myriad events and experiences watching this conflict all my life.

    You needn’t take it for anything more. Sources such as the current administration through the NYTimes and such don’t hold water for me, as I think they’re simply lying to tell what well meaning uninformed people would like to hear.

    It’s as I’ve said before, a sham, a pose, a slight of hand, a lie, simply put.

    Want to stop Iran getting it’s mitts on these misbegotten funds? Take them away, send them back to ROK where they came from! But no, that’s not what’s being done; instead a patty-cake game is held out as the alternative. Bullshit.

  24. “U.S. officials did not describe the money as frozen permanently but said that case-by-case applications to spend it under the current arrangement will be denied for the foreseeable future.”

    This supports sdferr’s view of “utter gaslighting hogwash”. The ONLY acceptable stance for the Biden administration would be to immediately terminate all negotiations with Iran permanently because the regime is outside the pale of civilized nations. Although it still would not come close to reversing the damage already done, most prominently the recent massacres. Obviously Obama who is really running foreign policy now will not do that.

  25. “I find it interesting that the Biden administration feels obliged to claim that the funds have been refrozen.”

    Because everyone who isn’t an antisemitic savage was revolted by the Iranian-backed terrorism, so they have to allow a little time for the narrative to change to “Isn’t it horrible what Israel is doing to Gaza”.

  26. Here’s a Tablet Mag companion piece to Armin Rosen’s “How Hamas Fooled the Experts” above: titled “The Konceptsia” sub-head

    Intelligence failures are never about the details. In Israel’s case, the operational and conceptual failures that led to Saturday’s massacre are even more disturbing

    it’s by Norman Samuels, and was published yesterday — https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/konceptsia-intelligence-failure

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

HTML tags allowed in your comment: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>