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Open thread 9/11/23 — 39 Comments

  1. I was walking to work down on Bleecker Street and I saw the first plane fly overhead and hit the WTC.

  2. I just re-watched a Canadian video (about 43 minutes) about the air traffic controllers at Gander, and their hard work to get over 220 planes safely landed within 4 hours when they were told early on 9/11 that American airspace was closed. Without the ATCs’ skills and competence, there could have easily been other airliner tragedies on 9/11.

    The video is called “9/11: Cleared for Chaos,” and can be watched here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zqf1mSuyd9w

  3. A good friend was in the second tower. She made it out. She had to dodge jumpers hitting the ground all around her. She said the bodies exploded when they hit.

    Never forget, never forgive.

  4. RIP.

    We must never forget that evil exists, and that people will commit unbelievably evil deeds to advance violent or oppressive ideologies.

  5. I am sorry. I know it does not make sense, but I cannot get the idea that the group that designed the 9/11 attacks is also somewhere, somehow, aligned with the same group that has orchestrated our open border policy. I know coincidence is not causation, but . . .

  6. Did the civil rights thing in 67 and 68. Couple of terms in Mississippi. Which is about the only way one learns to spell the thing. Got some connections with the left then, including the destroy-America crowd.

    After that, the Army, after that a life which, except that my wife and I had jobs, could have been Ozzie and Harriet.

    Still, I have been interested in the politics of the left. Got started in MS, followed. knew some sources, got onto some mailing lists of people who thought I was a Believer.

    Perhaps my perception changed due to the explosion, at least from my point of view, of news and ancillary information on the internet.

    Or maybe not. About the time of 9-11, it seemed to me we had the phenomenon of ordinary people taking on the left’s sales jobs–not necessarily the actual goals–with a fervor I had not seen before. Ordinary people would tell you that 2+2=5 and if you disagree, you’re two or three of a dozen types of evil people.

    Was it 9-11?

    What puzzled me is that people who know next to nothing about virology were convinced to the point of religious fanaticism that hydroxychloroquine was ineffective and even talking about it should be censored. Some government functionary said it and….tens of millions Believed. WTF? Was that sort of thing, and I use HCQ as a metaphor and example, more common after 9-11? The same but more obvious?

    We have discussed endlessly the raw emotion undiluted by facts and rationality of the hatred for Trump, and we can see it in other political arenas. Are millions of our countrymen less rational than before 9-11, or is it only my perception?

    Is it possible that human nature demands a massive sacrifice in the face of looming catastrophe? Two aspirin and call in the morning is not emotionally satisfactory even if justified?

  7. One of the things we learned after 9/11 is that a significant # of Americans resent, even hate, their fellow citizens. There were the ‘we deserve it’ comments from various ‘celebrities’, the schools that refused to allow the American flag to be flown because someone might be offended, and a lot more.

    And the attitude reflected by these people is today held by a lot of people in very powerful political positions.

  8. No-one in the FBI paid a price for the intelligence failures of the first and the final attacks on the World Trade Center. They were Johnny on the spot for any right wing loner.

  9. I confess, looking back on 9/11 leaves me drained and demoralized (which I imagine was the intent behind the attackers). We’ve had 22 years since. The quarter-century anniversary is approaching. And yet, what do we have to show for it? We certainly have some. The Arch-Architect of the terror plot is Dead, as are many of his underlings like Zarqawi and friends like Saddam. AQ no longer recognizably exists as a single organism. But the Taliban remain and are about as powerful as ever, and their creed lives on. It’d be a bit like killing Hitler and hanging Tojo but being unable to destroy or cripple Nazism.

    (Which come to think of it is eerily similar to what we deal with in terms of communism, given its long shadow.)

    And now here we are, three years after a “Fortified” Election, not merely struggling for our own freedom but also among some of us (not myself personally but still) wondering if the Union is both possible to preserve and beneficial to. And I am just left with this deep, abiding hatred. Most notably towards Osama and co but also to a lot of others.

    I wonder if we will ever be able to get back even a shred of what we have lost. Not in my time – I’ve long since given that up – but in a generation’s generation time.

  10. What’s even sadder is that there are now at least 2 insane takes on this. One is that it’s was all a government conspiracy.(Fortunately most consider that a nutty point of view.) The second is that if we had just elected Gore this would have never happened. (Unfortunately a lot of the left legitimately believe that one even though it’s almost as nutty.)

  11. I remember thinking that finally some sense of sanity might return to our suicidal immigration policies after 9/11. IOW, seal the borders shut until we could figure out who was here, deport those who did not belong, and in general act like a country that put the well being of its citizens before the demands of the cheap labor lobby and foreign governments. But if anything, the ruling class decided that the beatings were going to continue until morale improved.

    A little known side story is that the entertainer Seth MacFarlane was supposed to be on one of the planes from Boston. But he had attended a party the evening before with some of his classmates from the RISD, and he had too much to drink and as a result overslept and missed his flight.

  12. No comment on the reason for 911!!islam!!this is a clear declaration that the hatred that flows from the bowels of this cult has not changed over more than a thousand years. Stop being coexistant!! Islam hates us . Get real they hate ! Hate dogs hate women hate pigs hate Christians hate gays ok to lie to nonbelievers

  13. I remember thinking that finally some sense of sanity might return to our suicidal immigration policies after 9/11. IOW, seal the borders shut until we could figure out who was here, deport those who did not belong, and in general act like a country that put the well being of its citizens before the demands of the cheap labor lobby and foreign governments. But if anything, the ruling class decided that the beatings were going to continue until morale improved.
    ==
    George W. Bush looks worse and worse as the years go by.

  14. Thanks for GREAT quick video – it’s so important to remember.
    I recall arguing economics* against Nobel winning Gary Becker, in Slovakia (at a Mt. Pelerin Society meeting in Bratislava), going home for a nap, and having my wife wake me (early afternoon) so were watching live when the second plane rammed into the other tower.

    So very sad. So important to remember.

    *The big issues in Slovakia were joining NATO, the EU, and Euro zone – I favored all 3. Becker thought competing currencies would be best, or at least keeping the Slovak currency would be better. For FDI (foreign direct investment), and general econ growth over the 20-40 year time horizon, I’m sure joining the Euro-zone was optimal.

  15. Our enemies no longer exist exclusively outside our borders. They are still out there, of course, but the risk they pose to us pales when compared to the danger posed by the enemies in our midst. The most amazing and perplexing thing is how they managed to take over our central government. (I used to refer to the “federal” government, but there is little federalism left there.) I have generally, since attaining adulthood been skeptical of the claim that government does more good than bad and as time has gone by, I have come more firmly to believe that Jefferson was correct when he said, “That government which governs least, governs best.” (Even if he didn’t really say it, truer words were never spoken.)

  16. I was scheduled to teach that day, so was up watching TV. I was in California so plane #1 had hit but no one seemed to realize it was a plane. Then #2 hit and Diane Sawyer did a moro reflex. There’s a very good book called “Touching History” by a female airline pilot about that day. There was at least one other plane planned for a suicide mission but the freeze on air travel prevented it.

    Some government functionary said it and….tens of millions Believed. WTF? Was that sort of thing, and I use HCQ as a metaphor and example, more common after 9-11? The same but more obvious?

    It’s called “Mass Formation Psychosis.” https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2022/01/02/dr_robert_malone_.html

    Psychiatrists deny it.

  17. Nonapod on September 11, 2023 at 11:44 am

    “President Joe Biden will become the first U.S. president since the attacks to skip out on official remembrance ceremonies held at the White House.”

    Of course not he completed all we had to do on that 2 years ago on 8/30/21 with the most successful ending of a war and extraction from Afghanistan. It was nothing like when we left Vietnam.

  18. Seems like a lifetime ago.

    The perspective of some in the comments is a political (cultural?) change in the nation since 9/11.

    For me it has always felt like 9/11 was a singular, tragic event that, for a brief moment, reinstated Conservatism as the dominant mode in the U.S.. Years later people would speak almost wistfully about “9/12” (a term to describe the societal aftermath that 9/11 brought about in the U.S.); the sense of community, people turning their focus towards family, loved ones, neighbors, strangers…

    I recall growing cynical and a tad depressed as time went on and the emotions of the event wore off and it became clear it would be a hiccup in our nation’s devolution into a self-centered, narcissistic culture. For a brief moment our fellow countrymen and women remembered what it was to be a free people choosing life and liberty and embracing the responsibility of our own independence and caring for others. But we all too quickly slid back to our pre-tragedy lives and mindsets. I in no way think Obama’s Presidency was an outcome of 9/11, but it accelerated the political slide and gave power and strength to those willing it to continue.

    How sad that it takes the deaths of over 3,000 people for Americans to turn to thinking of others and how sad that we forget the lesson in a few months.

  19. miguel @ 1:12 pm: That FrontPage Magazine article is horrifying. Questions which should be asked are what corruption Biden was involved in before he became Vice President, and what corruption is feeding his actions now?

  20. It would be interesting to study the fall of Constantinople to the Muslims. The aftermath when the survivors were at the mercy of the victors. Isn’t that what the end goal is for America, ” The Great Satan? ”
    Or do they just want to destroy us with fire? Like the mysterious , apparently secular, end times city called ” Babylon” in the book of Revelation that is destroyed in a single hour with fire and the ships of the nations stand afar off , apparently afraid to go near? ( Radiation from nukes?) Though the ruler who does the destroying does not appear to be Muslim.

  21. Starting in 2002, I spent a few years working at a university in Korea. Seoul and other large cities were flooded with Canadians teaching English. Unfortunately, they were also teaching a virulent form of anti-Americanism, and they celebrated 9-11 as a triumph for the good guys. In Korea, that was the heyday of anti-Americanism, and most young people adored both China and communism. Now they’re a bit more circumspect.

    After Korea, I went to Qatar for a few years. The universities there were largely staffed with Canadians and Australians. The Australians weren’t too bad, but I eventually concluded that anti-Americanism has become an essential part of the Canadian identity. In Doha, shopping for beautiful carpets is an expat avocation, and one day I saw a carpet that celebrated 9-11 with a large illustration of the planes flying into the twin towers. It struck me as grotesque, but when I mentioned it to my Canadian friends, they thought it was hilarious.

    By the time I got back to the States, Obama’s anti-Americanism had taken hold. At the universities where I worked, he was treated like a god. I’m far from the first one to wonder who really won after 9-11.

  22. Well, OBL did become fish food eventually.

    Brandon couldn’t be trusted not to make it all about Beau so he wasn’t allowed out in public?

  23. Chickens coming home to roost.
    Canada’s getting it “good and hard”.
    Though the conservative third of the population is, like their counterpart in the US, wondering what the hell is going on.

    Problem is that as long as the loathsome, destructive and dishonest Trudeau has the support of the equally loathsome, destructive and dishonest NDP—two peas in a pod—he’ll be able to chip away, subvert and destroy that country in a manner similar to what “Biden” is doing to/in the US.
    As for the difference between the two countries being, essentially, America’s Second Amendment, “Biden” will be working 24/7 to erode, corrode and essentially emasculate it.

  24. Miguel Cervantes (1:12 pm) thank you for the link to Front Page Magazine. The Biden administration is worse than people can imagine.

  25. “…chip away, subvert and destroy…” continued…
    (On the corrosive George Soros’s grand ambition to wreck the USA from the inside.)
    “The Legal Road to Dystopia”—
    https://lawliberty.org/book-review/the-legal-road-to-dystopia/
    H/T Powerline blog.

    (Which also provides THE answer to anyone wondering why the young scion of the Soros Empire of Doom and Destruction—whose grand organizations are concealed by all kinds of Orwellian monikers—is so avidly welcome in the “Biden” WH.)

  26. Some trivia in the midst of solemnity, @Richard Aubrey at 11:56 am:

    A trick for spelling “Mississippi” is to say the following in a sing-song manner, emphasizing the letters (I’s) I have capitalized. It has a rhythm.

    “m-I-s-s I-s-s-I-p-p-I”

  27. For a brief moment our fellow countrymen and women remembered what it was to be a free people choosing life and liberty and embracing the responsibility of our own independence and caring for others. But we all too quickly slid back to our pre-tragedy lives and mindsets.

    Rufus T. Firefly:

    I recall talking to a real New Yawker a year or two after 9-11. He assured me that there was no way that New York City would ever forget.

    One would think so … and be wrong.

  28. I second Mike K’s recommendation of “Touching History.” Many gripping scenarios and excellent decision making by pilots and the ATC controllers. Many crashes could have resulted but didn’t.

    I had been retired eight years and realized that the FAA and airlines’ strategy and tactics for dealing with hi-jackers had not worked with these fanatics. Now, it’s armored doors and guns for pilots who are willing to carry. And TSA screening that, at least so far, seems to have done the job pretty well. Knock wood.

    I agree with Rufus T.
    “For me it has always felt like 9/11 was a singular, tragic event that, for a brief moment, reinstated Conservatism as the dominant mode in the U.S.”

    It reminded me, for a brief period, of the way things were during WWII. But it didn’t last.

    And yes, we still have enemies in the jihadist world, but they are distant and biding their time for now. The enemies within are the more immediately dangerous all these years later.

    Our history since 9/11 is not encouraging.

  29. Still so hard to watch. My cousin was working in the North Tower when that plane hit, at just about the level of his office. He didn’t get out.

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