Home » Open thread 8/18/23

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Open thread 8/18/23 — 49 Comments

  1. Very beautiful. Says Caucasus, looks Turkish.

    Just reading about the new fires in NW Canada. It seems that govt in all levels throughout the world are no longer competent to protect their citizens. Maui is a litany of incompetence and malfeasance. Canada may be the same. China is having major problems. I am sure the same can be said over the world.

  2. We’re heading into a presidential election where an overwhelming majority of people don’t like either candidate. Apparently 75% of people don’t want Biden to run and 70% don’t want Trump to run. I guess on the somewhat bright side for Republicans it seems as if the current dislike for Biden is a little more fierce than that of Trump.

    One can blame the polling sample or answering bias, but this data set tends to negate those complaints. Even with a favorable sample, 75% of American voters don’t want Biden to run. And while the sample is somewhat stacked against Trump, the 70% opposition figure goes well beyond sample bias. Like Biden on approval ratings, Trump can’t even clear the level of his party’s sample for support on another run.

    That’s assuming you believe any of these polls of course.

  3. one is actively destroying the country, the other is trying to save it, it makes perfect sense,

  4. everything he warned about, has come to pass, yet people cannot connect cause,
    which was the fraud with the effect, shattered supply chains, dissolved border, lawless cities, and ruinous capitulation to AQ,

  5. About the sirens in Maui – I understand the decision not to sound the sirens if the community had been taught that the sirens meant tsunami and to head away from the beach and to higher ground. In this situation, that would move people towards the fire.

    I live in metro Oklahoma City and the sirens are tested every Saturday at noon. We understand that they are to warn people who are outdoors that there is a tornado warning. If you are indoors, the county assumes that you are watching the tornado – all the local TV stations have helicopters & storm chasers that track the storms. Many of the AM radio stations switch to broadcasting the TV weather guys.

    Growing up in metro Detroit, the testing of the sirens were related to nuclear attack. threats. In upstate New York, the sirens were used to notify the volunteer fire departments.

  6. they could not issue a voice over, or a crawl on the tv and digital devices, who’s running this railroad,

  7. I think I would like to visit Georgia. I don’t think I will be able to talk m husband into it. But the photos of the country are beautiful.

  8. SHIREHOME,

    I don’t have current information, but up to at least 20 years ago Germany took forest management very seriously. I don’t recall hearing of any wildfire outbreaks there causing large loss of life and property.

    I know the Germans have done some dumb things recently (like ending nuclear and overbuilding wind turbines) in the service of environmentalism, but I assume they are still managing their forests well.

  9. I was married to a belly dancer and she knew some gals who did this. Very strenuous, at least while you’re learning. I know the kazatski makes you feel like you’re walking uphill for days. Not sure what those gals felt.

  10. Regarding UFOs, UAPs, aliens…

    Oftentimes people use some form of Drake equation logic to insist Earth has been or is being visited by intelligent aliens. “There are so many galaxies and so many stars and planetary systems…” “The number of sightings/first hand accounts… is so large…” Therefore, Ipso facto, quod erat domonstratum, intelligent aliens exist and are visiting Earth.

    Yesterday it occurred to me to look at this puzzle from the polar opposite perspective. We have at least a 100 year history of accounts of human sightings/encounters with alien craft. If one ascribes to the “ancient alien” view of carvings, verbal accounts… we have centuries of encounters. We also have decades (likely nearly a century) of accounts that UFO researches assert direct, U.S. government involvement followed by a cover-up. Let’s use the well known “Roswell Incident” as an example.

    Roswell occurred in 1947, over 70 years ago. Many other famous alien encounters claiming U.S. government coverup also occurred many decades ago.

    The greatest U.S. government secret I can think of is the technology to make an atomic bomb. The entire world learned of this weapon in 1945. FOUR years later the Soviet Union successfully detonated an atomic weapon!

    There is no secret the U.S. government worked harder to protect, yet there were spies within the Manhattan project (and prior) who were already currying information to the Soviets, and others. And the scientists chosen for the Manhattan project were very carefully selected.

    In other words, show me an example of any U.S. government secret that involved the number and level of individuals something like Roswell requires that remained secret for more than a week, let alone 70 years. Spies were sneaking physical evidence out of the Manhattan project while it was underway. In the early 1940s, prior to digital photography and digital audio recording devices. How much easier would it be for a U.S. soldier or airman to share evidence today? Look at Edward Snowden and Bradley Manning.

    How about a Drake-type equation listing variables and odds of all the things that are required for the U.S. government to keep evidence of alien visitation hidden?

  11. Ever notice how some lawmakers can unwittingly say the wrong thing out loud but no one seems to hear?

    Matt Gaetz tells us, out loud:

    “ Let me break it to all of you: There’s no conviction and removal of Joe Biden coming on impeachment. I know that. You know that. Anyone with rational thought knows that given Chuck Schumer’s control of the Senate. And frankly, the way that Senate Republicans view Joe Biden and seem to work with him for their own selfish objectives.

    The purpose of the impeachment to me is to use the Senate as the stage. But the senators are not the jury. The jury is the American people. And if we had the Senate as the stage and the platform for James Comer to put on his evidence and advance this impeachment, it will not result in a conviction, but the true verdict can still be rendered by the American people.”

    In other words, it’s all a political stunt, theatre, using the people’s House and legislative process as a political attack ad for the upcoming election.

  12. Rufus T. Firefly – The Drake equation logic really should take into account the vastness of space, the distance from earth to even the nearest stars, the difficulty of traversing it, and the destructiveness of every sentient civilization that we know of. Unless alien civilization is significantly different than human civilization, there are serious questions about whether it would be capable of surviving long enough to figure out how to get here. Assuming, of course, that alien civilizations are like human civilizations. But that kind of illustrates the point of things like the Drake equation. The variables that are unaccounted for are unknown, and that type of thinking requires huge assumptions that cannot be reasonably checked.

    I think you’re right on about the ability of government to keep a secret, although there may be factors here that weren’t in play with the Manhattan Project. By 1945, the Overton window for accepting the reality of extremely destructive weapons was on the move. Even today, in 2023, the Overton window for accepting the reality of little green men probably hasn’t moved that far. The “little green man coverup” rumors have been out there more or less since Roswell. Maybe the government is able to keep it secret because people aren’t ready to believe.

    Somewhat related to both points – if they exist, why do UAPs have to be from another planet or another star?

  13. Bauxite,

    Many in the UFO/UAP community share your reasoning and claim they are humans from the future with time travel technology. There are also some who claim there are contemporaneous technologically advanced civilizations living on Earth in the ocean or in a middle earth region.

    Doesn’t the Drake equation take into account odds of self-annihilation prior to reaching hyper space travel? I thought it did. Some similar equation does.

  14. I missed this wonderful news from last month!

    Plant Vogtle 3 is online!

    “Vogtle Unit 3 is the first newly-constructed nuclear unit in the U.S. in over 30 years and can power an estimated 500,000 homes and businesses. Once all four units are online, the Plant Vogtle site will be the largest generator of clean energy in the nation and support continued growth in Georgia as more industries, businesses and families come to the state.”

    from: https://www.georgiapower.com/company/plant-vogtle/vogtle-facts.html
    A single 1/2 inch Uranium Nuclear Fuel Pellet creates as much energy as:
    149 gallons of oil
    17,000 ft3 of natural gas
    2,000 lbs of coal ore

    For a windfarm to produce the same amount of energy as Plant Vogtle, it would need to cover an area over 1000 square miles.

  15. Rufus T. Firefly – I thought the Drake equation is more about whether we could detect an alien civilization from its signals than about whether the alien civilization could travel here, but I understand that there is a “lifetime of the civilization” factor.

    It will be interesting to see how all of this turns out, though, I remain skeptical.

  16. Bauxite,

    Wikipedia says you’re correct. Not sure which equation I’m thinking of, but my confusion doesn’t change my premise in my original comment.

    Maybe Carl Sagan had an equation about likelihood of self destruction? He was big into that line of reasoning.

  17. Don’t some political officials deserve to be impeached, even if they can’t be convicted? Mayorkas? Garland? Biden?

    If Trump could have been convicted and removed from office by his first impeachment (the second happened after he had left office), would that have made the impeachment any less fugazy and fraudulent?

    “Rhetoric” gets a bad name in politics now, but it does have a long and honorable tradition. Something similar can be said about “theater.” Deliberations over matters of great importance can be theatrical, but that doesn’t make them any less real or significant or likely to have real world consequences.

  18. Federalist article The Purpose Of The Trump Indictments Is To Demonstrate The Left’s Power quotes James Lindsay saying that the indictments are intended to provoke another J6. It also says that complaints about hypocrisy are pointless. The indictments are the Democrats asserting their dominance and establishing a hierarchy. They assume that there is a different standard for them than for the other side and this is their way of making that clear to all.

  19. A new nuclear power plant in GEORGIA? Are you kidding me? Is this the state government that is so contorted, so dishonest, and as a whole so poorly educated? Geez what could go wrong here?

  20. The Drake equation can include anything you want. It’s intended to be a framework for thinking through assumptions, it’s not like Newton’s laws.

    Because it contains so many and unknown parameters, it can be used to generate any answer you wish. Its function is not to generate the answer, it’s to clarify thinking about how we would go about finding the right answer.

    It can also be worked backward: given that we haven’t had any signals yet, what are the bounds on the unknown values of assumptions that went in it? And that may be a better use for it anyway.

    The method used to set up the Drake equation is useful for any number of estimation problems, it’s not limited to alien life.

  21. Oddly liked that.

    I definitely think the Bolsheviks are trying to provoke a rebellion.
    Saw on a TV in a lobby from NBC Feds are trying to get 27 – 35 year sentence for 6 Proud Boys ( the ones not Fed informants) for Jan 6.

  22. RJW:

    Your point about what Gaetz said? I fail to see it. He was stating what everyone already knows about impeachment when there’s no chance for conviction. Many people think it nevertheless has value – the Democrats certainly thought so when they impeached Trump twice. The Founders purposely made a high bar for conviction in the Senate, but it’s not hard to impeach in the House. No impeached president has ever been convicted.

  23. ON YESTERDAY’s Neo initiated theme of chaos and US decline, there’s this headline
    “ Vivek Ramaswamy Warns Tucker Carlson: This Country Is “On The Cusp Of Chaos… In A 1776 Moment”
    PULL QUOTE
    “we, the people live in a moment where the government believes that citizens of this nation cannot be trusted with the truth.”
    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/vivek-ramaswamy-warns-tucker-carlson-were-1776-moment-country

    I’m sure few here will gainsay the second line. But the first is a more fragile perception, depending upon the observer. Newt Gingrich agrees (in a recent FoxBusiness Channel interview). But who else?

  24. RJW: ”In other words, it’s all a political stunt, theatre, using the people’s House and legislative process as a political attack ad for the upcoming election.”

    Precisely what else do we have to pierce the Praetorian Guard media protecting bribed FJB? And reach the people?

  25. well the values you plug into the formula are variable, so are the outcomes

  26. We’re heading into a presidential election where an overwhelming majority of people don’t like either candidate.

    It was the same story in 2007. Hillary was expected to be anointed by Democrats, and the GOP President had destroyed the party’s image that nobody in the party seemed very palatable, particularly John McCain, who backed bailing out banks. It wasn’t until outsider Barack Obama did voters of at least one party got motivated.

  27. RJW: ”In other words, it’s all a political stunt, theatre, using the people’s House and legislative process as a political attack ad for the upcoming election.”

    “ Precisely what else do we have to pierce the Praetorian Guard media protecting bribed FJB? And reach the people?‘’

    We’ve seen this movie many times before. Remember the Benghazi version with other GOP lawmakers admitting it was a political stunt? Funny how that just fizzled and went away after the 2016 Trump victory.

    The “but what else do we have” sounds like a justification to use the tax payer’s legislation process as a political stage for political gain, rather than doing the work for the people, because, well, that’s all you have. That’s not their job and it’s not what we’re paying them to do.

  28. Neo, I disagree.

    All 3 articles of Trump’s 2 impeachments were based on credible allegations which had overwhelming evidence, “mountains of evidence” his legal defense conceded to the Ukraine ordeal yet rested their case knowing they had a compliant jury to acquit as many openly admitted they would under any circumstances. On the 2nd impeachment, Trump had already lost, leaving no reason to “stage” an impeachment for voters to decide.

    Agree or disagree, believe it was politically motivated or not, that can be argued. But when Gaetz flat out admits the strategy, to use the legislative process as a “stage” to alter the next election outcome, it removes any doubt.

    And I’ll again add, that’s not their job and isn’t what we’re supposed to be paying them to do.

  29. Punctuation Alert:

    Some commenters here, when inserting a multi-paragraph quote, fail to begin succeeding paragraphs with quotation marks. Ergo, readers cannot be certain whose words — the quoted’s or the commenter’s — he is reading.

    Annoying.

  30. I think they are all wearing those tennis shoes with little rollers on the soles! Would that make them ‘holy rollers’?

  31. no this was to make hillary accountable for her criminally negligent handling of north africa in particular and the libyan account, now trey gowdy was terrible at the hearings, in part because he was complicit,

  32. @ RJW > “to alter the next election outcome”

    Phrasing like this implies that a particular election outcome is pre-ordained, and anything done to change that outcome is unethical, or worse.

    I didn’t realize that American politics was a Calvinist ideology.

    Changing election outcomes is the purpose of some social activity, much economic activity, most media activity, and all political activity.

    It’s not a reason to disagree with any particular actions, especially those of politicians.

    @ RJW > “that’s not their job”

    The Congress has not been doing it’s Constitutional job for several decades now.
    However, removing unfit officials from office IS in fact part of their job.

    @ RJW > “it’s all a political stunt, theatre, using the people’s House and legislative process as a political attack ad for the upcoming election.”

    And this is different from the last century in what way?
    Besides, why object to this one theatrical performance when we’re living in the middle of a multi-episode dramatic soap opera?

  33. RE: China’s demographic death spiral–more evidence

    See this report about statistics and surveys showing the astonishing decline in birth rates in China, but more importantly in the percentage of young marriage age men and women (75% or more in some major cities) who say that they don’t intend to get married or, if married, do not intend to have children.*

    Maybe I’m wrong, but I expect that if China was a much more open and free society–no tight surveillance and control of everything and everybody, no social credit system, and a brighter future ahead–young people would be much more inclined to marry and have children.

    * See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxENdlEjGkY

  34. P.S.–China also has a epidemic of men–usually of middle age and unsuccessful in life–stabbing children in kindergartens, an epidemic that the Chinese government doesn’t want the world to know about.

    These stabbings are based on the social structure and ideas of a still pretty traditional China in which parents and grandparents –who usually all live together–direct all of their money and effort i.e. they “invest” in, giving their children and grandchildren the best possible education, so that when these children grow up–they will be in the best possible position to support their parents and grandparents in their old age.

    When disgruntled, usually middle aged men go on stabbing rampages directed at expensive private kindergartens, it is with the aim of striking back both at the society in which they have failed, and also at successful families and their future well being.*

    * See, for instance, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIFLBc_n5c4 and https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/04/asia/china-elementary-school-stabbing-intl-hnk/index.html

  35. @ cb > “Biden Regime to Reinstate COVID-19 Restrictions Beginning with Mask Mandate”

    I refer you to the Federalist post linked by Abraxas earlier today.
    https://thefederalist.com/2023/08/16/the-purpose-of-the-trump-indictments-is-to-demonstrate-the-lefts-power/

    “The indictments [mask mandates] are the Democrats asserting their dominance and establishing a hierarchy. They assume that there is a different standard for them than for the other side and this is their way of making that clear to all.”

  36. they’ve been pulling this trick, since ted kennedy’s camarilla, along with unscrupulous judges like john sirica, made watergate this stage show,

  37. AesopFan, “unfit” is a rather vague term for Congressional impeachment. I’m reasonably sure the electorate gets to determine who they consider fit or unfit. Now when you get down to “high crimes and misdemeanors”, that’s a different story.

    Yes, it’s true we’ve seen legislative political shenanigans over the last century but not to this level. My point was how Gaetz openly stated the objective of impeaching Biden was for political gain, just as McCarthy et al openly admitted that the Benghazi ordeal was purely political.

    Imagine had Adam Schiff openly stated the he realized Trump would not be convicted over the Ukraine impeachment but was using the House floor, time, and resources because it would benefit Democrats in the upcoming election.

    Now, perhaps you feel that was Schiff’s motive which could be argued. But when political leaders say it out loud, it kinda gives the game away.

  38. schiff has corrupted every agency of the government proferring actual frauds like the danchenko dossier, trying to destroy good men like devin nunes, in part he is responsible for the capitulation of afghanistan, with the phony bounties, but when 13 american soldiers were slain at abbey gate, he was silent,

  39. he was never smart enough to be the chin, but he has a low cunning I’ll grant you that,

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