On the Trump indictment
Apparently there’s no there there.
Which may not matter. Nevertheless the indictment is exceptionally weak, even weaker than expected – which is saying something.
And it’s not just people on the right who are unimpressed by it:
BREAKING: CNN calls Trump indictment “underwhelming.”
You know you’ve lost when you lose CNN.pic.twitter.com/uc02V31yHT
— Collin Rugg (@CollinRugg) April 4, 2023
After reading DA Bragg’s indictment of Trump and accompanying statement of facts, I’m stunned any prosecutor would move forward with this. It’s even flimsier than we were led to believe. Thirty-four stacked counts, bootstrapped to an unstated crime, to manufacture felony charges.
— Justin Amash (@justinamash) April 4, 2023
And even this Vox writer is not what you’d call enthusiastic about the legal basis for the case:
Bragg, in other words, has built one of the most controversial and high-profile criminal cases in American history upon the most uncertain of foundations. And that foundation could crumble into dust if the courts reject his legal arguments on a genuinely ambiguous question of law.
What’s more:
…[S]omeone accused of falsifying business records may be charged with a felony if their “intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.”
In a vague statement made after Trump’s arraignment, Bragg claims the concealed records scheme “violated New York election law, which makes it a crime to conspire to promote a candidacy by unlawful means.” But this legal theory is not mentioned at all in the indictment or the accompanying statement of facts.
That leaves the federal campaign finance violation that led to Cohen’s guilty plea.
But it is far from clear that a New York state prosecutor may charge Trump with a felony because he tried to cover up a federal, as opposed to a state, crime.
Then there’s the statute of limitations problem:
There’s also one more twist here. The statute of limitations for the felony version of the false records crime is five years, while the statute of limitations for the misdemeanor version is only two years. Trump’s final payment to Cohen occurred in December 2017, which was more than five years ago.
That said, New York law sometimes allows the clock to be stopped on these statutes of limitations when the defendant was out of the state, and Trump spent four years living in the White House before relocating to Florida.
As I said, though, none of this actual legal stuff may end up mattering in the end. It’s Manhattan-town, Jake.
Alan Dershowitz is extremely concerned, and I most definitely share that concern. However, he seems to think Bragg decided to do this on his own in response to public pressure. I don’t think that’s it at all; I think that this was a decision by a group of higher-ups in the party:
I think that this was a decision by a group of higher-ups in the party
I believe so too. Based on all these recent events as well as others, my impression of Bragg is that he seems to be a rather gormless character. I’m no lawyer or legal expert, but to my mind he doesn’t strike me as particularly sophisticated in his methods or theories. He seems to be hoping that the judge is emotional and amoral enough to allow this farce to proceed.
And who knows? He may be right. I hear that the judge was a Biden donor and his daughter worked for the Biden campaign. And certainly scheduling the next hearing way off in December doesn’t read well to me. So the fix could very well be in, as they say.
How about a decision by one higher-up not in the party.
I would guess that Soros approved. And if Bragg desires to run for higher office, the movers and shakers in NY at a minimum.
But the reality is that the fevered Democrat zombies are united in their insane desire to destroy all vestiges of decency and democracy. Politicians and voters together — they’ve all let hatred eat their brains.
No matter how baseless and outright phony the charges are against Trump, he will have to appeal all the way to the Federal court system before he can expect the charges to be dismissed.
The powers that be in NY and in the White House that are running this circus – those behind Bragg who are really calling the shots – will see that no court in NY will rule in favor of dismissal. They will do this by directing the case, upon appeal, be heard in “friendly” NY courts where the outcome is pre-determined.
The intent here is to drag this out as long as possible to harm Trump’s chances to become president.
If he were not a candidate, neither Bragg nor anyone else would have bothered indicting Trump.
he has plenty of gorm, but seeing as they sent colangelo, to aid the apparatchik, they had slim pickings,
He’ll be stopped one way or another. Gag order probably next step, violate that then arrest, then… we all know.
The chances of getting an unbiased jury in NYC are next to nil. They will not be there to dissect the finer points of law. They will have one motive, and one motive only: lock him up.
If found guilty, It will move to Appeal, and even that is a crapshoot. It may well go up the Supreme Court. All of this, regardless of how it goes, will take a lot of time, which they will use to further attempt to discredit him. Plus the adding on of additional lawsuits in GA and NYC and the Special Counsel’s investigation.
They will never stop. He is now their full time “hobby”.
This is the just the first of three more: GA and two in DC.
Trump must be destroyed. He is the Dems’ white whale.
Scheduling the next hearing for December reflects the Democrat’s desire to keep this looming over Trump throughout the election. Even if Trump is not ultimately convicted, it could still serve to prevent him from defeating Biden in the next election, which is their most important consideration. Of course, if they can send a political opponent to prison, so much the better. And they will have certainly signaled any other potential political opponents that they’d better reconsider or they could find themselves in a courtroom as well.
I’m not even in the first million people to mention it, but the U.S. is entering banana republic territory. That was something I was once naive enough to consider impossible. It is long past time to gird our loins.
I have always been concerned about assassination. The political left is insane and part of that is their hatred of Trump. Part was stirred by his defiance of them and their newsmedia followers. Even his crack about John McCain was a response to McCain’s description of his supporters as “crazies.”
I could see that leftist judge refusing bail if the NY jury does as it’s told. Next step… Epstein.
Biggest accomplishment Bragg has going is the Democrats Propaganda Ministry will have 300 days so start rumors and claim to get behind the scenes tips DJT is guilty of other crimes. Also Bragg found a grand jury to go after Trump without questions I have complete belief he can get a jury without 1 Trump voter and convict if it’s permitted to continue years down the road.
Also quite convenient to make every Republican candidate everywhere to denounce DJT at every reception.
perhaps but he had plenty of time, to concoct such charges, and he had a damp squid, this pomerantz fellow, drew them a road map.
Trump is obviously the frontrunner now for the GOP. BUT …
If I were a serious candidate determined to be the nominee for the GOP in 2024 (assuming I had no personal skeletons, etc.), I would “out-Trump” DJT in attacking the Dems and the abusive deep state. I would use every campaign event, interview and especially debate to painstakingly document the horrific, Big Brother abuses of Trump specifically and all Americans generally. Not simply broad brush denunciations — facts, facts and more facts. The facts are overwhelming. All they need is to be hammered home to the mushy middle who still doesn’t understand. And to the Dem liberals who have a sense of honor and justice and are nervous that the crazies really are bent. And also bent on making the USA the worst aspects of SF, Seattle and Chicago.
In other words, be far, far more effective in proving Trump’s case than he is. It would be a two-step process: 1) draft on Trump’s huge appeal with the base to stay in the race until it is only a two person race, 2) let others make the case that I would be as good or better than Trump on all the issues (especially making the deep state pay and returning to the constitution and rule of law) without the age or the baggage.
The biggest liability for anyone facing Trump in GOP race is his withering attacks. This approach would make it very hard for him to attack. And make him look awful every time he did. It would probably leave him flummoxed. Especially if I took it all with good humor — “Donald, gotta love him. This is what he does. I’m not hurt. It’s just Don. Let’s focus on the critical issues we must win to save America.”
In fact, I think I’d lead cheers for him every event. For his great record in office. For his extraordinary emotional strength in the face of an unprecedented assault. Especially at his age (wink). Let’s all rise and give him a well-deserved ovation!
Can a motion to dismiss be entered before the next hearing scheduled for December?
when the dems wanted to clear the deck the first time, there was a convenient financial crisis, mostly due to their efforts, also mccain was an easy mark willing to take the fall, when they faced other headwinds, covid was available, funny how that works,
This strategy is nothing new. The Texas AG was “under indictment” throughout the last election. His primary opponent, Jeb’s son. Texans didn’t buy the BS and kept Ken Paxton. It is not just Democrats that do this nonsense.
Four hours ago, the reports read of an active shooter situation at Trump Tower Chicago — a woman was seen entering with a gun.
“It’s getting weirder out there”, as has been used as a movie tagline.
My web search for the above finds another apparently deranged shooter who entered Trump’s Doral Resort. He sustained multiple gunshot wounds and taken to hospital.
“A man ranting anti-Donald Trump rhetoric was wounded in a shootout with police early Friday at a Miami-area golf club owned by the president, authorities said.
“The suspect — later identified as Jonathan Oddi, 42 — was taken to the hospital for multiple wounds to his legs…”
The details continue to get Oddi-er.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/person-shot-after-confrontation-police-trump-resort-miami-n875296
Kate:
The correct thing to do is for the judge, sua sponte, dismiss the case. On the fact of the Complaint/Indicment/True Bill it is defective. But that won’t happen.
stan at 5:14 pm- Exactly! I’ve been thinking that’s just what DeSantis needs to do to react to Trumps coming attacks and to get Trump and his base on board if he wins the nomination. DeSantis is pretty smart, I’m betting that he’s already figured that out.
I also agree with Stan; are you listening Ron DeSantis?
The point is not to secure a conviction or even to have a valid point of law. It is all about draining resources from Trump campaign and distracting Americans from the crimes being committed in DC. It was also probably an attempt to draw MAGA supporters into an insurrection trap.
I don’t think that the results that we are seeing is what the elites who orchestrated this were expecting.
Article, 4/4/23:
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2023/04/04/victor_davis_hanson_prosecutors_want_trump_to_get_enough_empathy_to_win_the_nomination_and_then_gag_or_jail_him.html
All of this looming destruction could go away with one simple (but profound) change:
Trump could actually be a “big” person, withdraw, and pledge to do everything in his power to help the GOP, and whomever is nominated, to win! Voila!
Because he apparently “can’t” do that (is not a big enough person to fade into the background and apply everything he has to helping to save America), I think I personally will hold him and his ego responsible for the End of America. I realize that there are countless factors involved, but this one change would change almost everything that is currently going on.
Melania, Ivanka, and Jared were absent from his post-court speech.
I believe that they feel as I do about what he is doing.
Haven’t we all been through much more than enough?
George Washington was reluctant to be President but agreed in order to give the country a good beginning.
America will be destroyed for the sake of Trump’s ego. How pathetic.
RJB: “It was also probably an attempt to draw MAGA supporters into an insurrection trap.”
Indeed. They partially succeeded on Jan. 6th.
Biden’s pre-2022 election speeches laid out a stereotype of “ultra-MAGA neo-fascists” who use violences to further their cause. Any incident of protest will be called violent. Agent’s provocateurs will be present at any announced protest. They have been using this MO since they declared Charlottesville a violent white supremacy riot.
In the meantime, their agents – Antifa and BLM – are praised as mostly peaceful and virtuous protesters.
War is peace and black mis white. It’s straight out of “1984.”
VV,
You really need to start paying attention. This isn’t about Trump. After 7 years, everyone knows it. The Democrats have been stealing elections since long before Trump and will long after he is dead. The rule of law and the constitution were shredded long before Trump. The two-tier system of corrupt justice goes back to Clinton three decades ago. The news media has been a wholly owned propaganda operation of the Dems for over half a century. The K-12 education and University systems have been dominated by the left for decades. BLM and Antifa preceded Trump. Democrats have been using the NSA database to spy on all Americans since early in the Obama years.
Big Brother isn’t about Trump. It’s about power. The reason that Big Brother has been abusing Trump is because he was the only one fighting for America for a long time. Big Brother/Deep State will continue until or unless we defeat it. And that will be true even after Trump is long gone.
edit — the outrageous censorship by big tech on covid and other issues wasn’t about Trump. Just 1984 thought police going full on evil.
VV: I am in agreement with you
Stan at 7:51:
Your saying “You really need to start paying attention” is condescending. I have been following politics in depth for years. I agree with your comments on “power”.
However, Trump has been “sucking all the oxygen out of the room” ever since he came down the escalator. I was energized by his first term and his great accomplishments in the face of unrelenting opposition. He gave us hope.
But currently he needs to disappear. He is utterly incapable of doing what is best for the country. It has to be Trump 24/7/365, with adoring crowds, with him as savior or martyr, or nothing. Otherwise, he is a petulant 3-yr-old.
Big Brother is 110% “about Trump” until or unless he disappears.
And they have the entire country and much of the world fixated on him 24/7/365.
Meanwhile the rest of the (evil) world is celebrating daily their power over us.
From the abrasive Ann Coulter, 4/5/23:
“Against DeSantis’ smarts and energy, the Democrats would be running President Senile Dementia and a vice president whose sole credentials are that she is black and a woman.
They had only one hope: Get Trump the nomination. Liberals: HE’S A DANGER TO THE NATION! NEVER HAVE WE FACED SUCH PERIL! Now let’s do everything we can to make sure he gets the nomination.
And that’s why Democrats indicted Trump on absurd charges this week, with the media covering the event like it was the capture of Osama Bin Laden. Today, the party mandarins are sitting around laughing as Republicans trip over themselves to defend Trump.”
https://townhall.com/columnists/anncoulter/2023/04/05/youre-being-played-republicans-n2621612
Stan and Chris B,
It ain’t gonna happen. I like Ronnie De, he’s done great things in Florida, but he’s way too beholden to the GOP establishment. I think he should stay as FL gov, as it’s only via the state governments that there can be any solid pushback against the metastasizing insanity. There he can continue to be a model for other governors.
But it doesn’t matter as the Dems have the voting system locked up along with favorable demographics. There will never be another GOP president. Which leads back to my post from yesterday where I posited that the only reason TPTB are going through all of this trouble is out of pure obsessive spite and hatred.
Stan:
They’ll never listen. The very existence of Trump makes them insane. In his four years:
Low unemployment across all races
Energy independence
Military excursions reigned in
Inflation under control
Journey to N. Korea
But it’s not enough for people that are insane. It’s all style and no substance. We will get what we deserve.
Don’t worry. That NYC jury will ignore the hole in the case and convict as ordered. The judge in the case is a Biden stalwart and we know what they do. Stalin would have required a “confession” but Trump will go with his head held high. This, and the J6 political prisoners, are evidence that the rule of law no longer holds in this Junta. The oligarchy paid for 2020 and they are getting what they want. So far.
It doesn’t matter much if the indictment is without substance. That is just an indication of Bragg’s limitations, that he doesn’t have the intelligence to confect something that at least could be convincing to the party base of True Belivers. The indictment got the arraignment, and that what it was for. The Legacy Corporate Media got their photo opportunity and the sound bites of ‘the first president to ever be indicted’ etc, etc, and CNN got to run their ‘The Indictment of Donald Trump’ 6-hour time segment in the channel guide.
The Machine Democrats have their judge lined up and their sequence of planned events. It won’t matter what the substance of the trial is, just as it didn’t matter with Alex Jones, just as it doesn’t matter to the accused going through their individual January 6th trials. There is no legal bar that cannot be lowered, no precedent that cannot be abased. These are show trials, pure and simple. The objective isn’t justice, the objective is The Show.
Remember: “It’s the economy, stupid.”
OPEC lowered production yesterday. Gas prices are up. Inflation isn’t whipped yet. And as other countries are starting to reject the US dollar as the reserve currency, all those dollars will come home.
And no one can predict the disruption that ChatGPT-4 will have on the economy and on the culture.
2024 is a long way off.
@ Mike K – The political left is insane and part of that is their hatred of Trump.
They’re not alone. A generous lump of the R party hates him too, and then there’s quite a posse from the less-activist Middle that regards him with a hatred cultivated 24/7/365 by our long-corrupted ‘news’ media.
News and information are the least of the concerns of said media – they’re there to ‘make a difference’, by an organized combination of information and disinformation influencing and guiding public opinion. The hatred they sowed for Richard Nixon was feeble, by comparison with their hate-Trump campaign.
@VV
I’m not an EverTrumper and am more than willing to consider supporting a Trump withdrawal, but let’s be realistic. Anybody here who thinks that Trump would just be allowed to go away peacefully if he dropped out is engaging in monumentally wishful thinking. That doesn’t mean he shouldn’t support the nominee if at all possible, and doesn’t mean he shouldn’t drop out, but they will be trying this to anybody who becomes the nominee and many people who have no prospects to. Take a look at what has happened to the Jan 6th political prisoners. Jacob Chanley the Shaman was not cruelly and unjustly prosecuted because people thought he would be running in the General Election.
Again, stop being naive. And I’m not even going to argue that Trump isn’t a big enough person, shouldn’t fade away, or doesn’t share blame and responsibility. Because that goes far beyond it. The End of America primarily isn’t happening because of Trump, but in spite of him. Moreover, his ability to “fade into the background” is limited not just by his ego (though there is plenty of that) but by a left wing propaganda machine that is simultaneously addicted to propping him up as a target and wants to utterly, publicly destroy him Pour Encourager les Autres. If Trump does not continue to visibly fight, then they will have carte blanche to utterly destroy him or at least his reputation even more profoundly than they already have. Can you imagine how much badly things would go for him if he could not go onto the limelight and use a bully pulpit to point out things like the political prosecution?
Again, none of this means he is saintly or perfect; hell it doesn’t even mean he is adequate for the challenges ahead. But he is not responsible for the left’s long mharc.
To be fair I don’t have a whole lot good to say about any of them and I believe Trump’s heavy delegations to them was a catastrophic series of mistakes, even if I can understand somewhat of why he did.
Of course we have.
And there will be far more.
Even if Trump did exactly what you want him to or outright died next hour, we would all have so much more to suffer through. That includes whoever comes next as GOP or Conservatives standard bearer. We have to confront that fact.
Yeah no.
Chernow, Ellis, and a host of others have done a spectacular job of torpedoing the more exaggerated models of “Humble George Washington and his Cherry Tree” that were typical in American culture. His cardinal sins were Pride, Envy, and Greed, and while he carefully cultivated an outward appearance of being the humble or even reluctant leader (and for much of his life not even insincerely), beneath the surface he burned with staggering ambition and even arrogance at what he believed was his due. He fully expected and believed he deserved to be the first President and campaigned obliquely for the position (albeit less directly than many of his contemporaries, especially Aaron Burr).
It wouldn’t be until well into his first term and especially his second that he started to get worn out with the job. I’ve heard differing accounts of whether or not his famous offer to resign (pushing the cabinet to beg him to stay on) was sincere or an attempt to cultivate loyalty like Lenin’s own proposed retirement, but it wouldn’t be until his second term that he was sincerely sick of it and wanted out.
Which is why I think it’s worth realizing Washington was closer to Trump (and Trump to Washington) than many people either realize or want to admit, especially when you realize that both were fundamentally aristocratic but indebted moguls with crazy intense pride tempered by a sense of noblesse oblige.
Again, this is NOT to say that Trump is comparable or as great as Washington, not even close. Whether it was his military service, honesty, or fidelity in marriage.
But it is to say that the idea that Washington started out hesitant to take the Presidency and had to be coaxed into taking it is an urban legend that does not stand up to scrutiny, and that when you dig down beneath the surface you find a lot more in common than people like to thing.
Pathetic is cursing the Totem of Trump as a means to avoid confronting the people who are actually intent on destroying America, and have been doing it. You can argue quite fairly that Trump did not do enough to stop them, but the idea that Obama, Biden, and co were not engaged in breaking down the US before Trump does not stand the smell test.
And again, I’m hardly a Trump cultist. But we will have reason to lament when he passes from the stage, and in times to come we will have reason to look back at his term (Troubled as hell and less effective than ideal as it was) with nostalgia.
Because it’s going to get worse before it can get better. IF it does get better.r
Fair, and agreed.
Even if he wanted to (as he obviously doesn’t) there are practical obstacles to that, starting with the witch hunts against him and the need to fight off persecution and attacks.
I’d say a New York City real estate mogul taking on the poisoned chalice of the American presidency after two terms of Obama and effectively exiling himself from the city he called home, to the point of being Memory Holed and persecuted, is doing a lot of what is best for his country. The issue of course is that he certainly isn’t doing everything that is best, as we can agree re: his spats with others on the loyal right like DeSantis.
Fair.
Because of how symbolic Trump is, and how they want to destroy him Pour Encourager les Autres, even more than they wanted to do to most others. He is a particularly red piece of meat but they will not be exclusive.
Considering all the failures Coulter has had as well as her own childishness, petulance, and so forth I’m not particularly keen on her instincts.
What utterly naive rot.
President Senile and Kamala the Cunt were thoroughly worthless back when they ran in 2020, with their main trajectory being how poorly people have had from seeing them “in power” during the last three years. Biden was already proverbial in terms of being a screwup.
And yet they still “won.” By a mysterious, unprecedented amount of votes that was just enough to drown out the second most unprecedented number of votes. Only unlike Trump’s tallies, theirs were weird as hell and mysterious to boot, being limited to atypical surges in swing states Biden NEEDED to win, and dominated by corrupt leftist urban machines.
We can debate about whether it was outright fraud, the results of ballot harvesting and get out the vote matters, the COVID era ballot drops and insecurity, or mixtures of all of them. What is important is that all played a role, that none of them are dependent upon Trump (especially not now that he is out of office and no longer has to give at least hesitant consent to lockdown policy and other nonsense), and very few have been fixed.
Trump has his share of the blame for failing to prevent the “fortification” of the election more effectively, but so do many others.
And the idea that the Left is seeking to demonize and destroy Trump purely or even primarily in order to get the Republicans to nominate him as a “weak candidate” they can “easily” win against is at best missing the point. It is to have not learned the lessons of January 6th.
This is not to say that there is NO incentive or motive whatsoever by elements of the left at trying to get Trump nominated in the hopes he is weak. They certainly did that during the 2016 primary election (though it blew up in their face). But it is not necessary, sufficient, or even coherent to claim it is the primary motive here.
The left wishes to demonize and destroy all opposition.
If you do not understand that or believe that, look at what happened to the political prisoners of January 6th.
Look at what happened to the parents calling in to exercise due diligence at their schools being smeared as domestic terrorists.
And what REALLY galls me about this self righteous load of crap from Coulter is that SHE OF ALL PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW BETTER given that she has written plenty about the left’s vindictiveness, witch hunts, opportunism, and desire to destroy those opposed to them. As she has about institutional corruption, lack of vote integrity, and so forth.
But apparently all of that knowledge GOES OUT THE DAMN WINDOW when it becomes convenient to grandstand against the Great Orange Whale. And people wonder why I never had a great opinion of Coulter’s judgement back when I was a fan of hers and why I haven’t been one for years.
By all means, encourage Trump to disappear. I’m not entirely opposed to the idea. But the idea that the Left is so desperate that the entire apparatus of their political control and strategy for 2024 is contingent on Trump running for Presidency is a fable.
An utterly self-serving, staggeringly naive fable that does not stand up to analysis. And if we want to have a hope in hell of succeeding going forward, we need to acknowledge that fact.
I don’t think Trump has an option to withdraw. He is in the fight until the end. I’m not sure I would vote for him in the primary but he is now a symbol. The LA Times is still running articles about how strong the case against Trump is. Obviously, the opinions of lawyers don’t count.
@Turtler at 5:17 a.m.:
Thank you for your detailed reply. I am always open to learning more. I have been reading since I was 5 years old, in my attempt to understand, and ultimately to survive, the world. Politics never seemed relevant to me until Obama. His color was not important to me, but what I was gradually learning about him was increasingly disturbing. Meanwhile (at midlife), the bottom dropped out of my personal life, leaving me to deal alone with Survival 2.0. Now the bottom is dropping out of all Americans’ lives, and it is unclear whether anything can change that. Yes, we have to fight, however we personally can.
A wise man once advised me to ask myself, “Will it matter in 5 years?”
Trump will not “matter” in 5 years. America (if it exists) will.
I just hate to watch us “doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results”. (Trump is “the same thing over and over”, and I am so heartily sick of it.) I am no longer supporting the RNC or any specific individual. And I will not be doing so unless I see someone/something worthy of my support.
The average person knows and understands only a fraction of what is going on.
And can do even less about it. (I am probably one of those average persons.)
As I’ve said several times before here, my main issue with Trump continues to be that I don’t believe he can win the general election. I believe a different candidate would have a considerably better chance. I’m convinced that there’s just too many mushy middle-of-the road sorts of voters who will just never vote for him. I welcome anyone who can make a good argument as to why I may be wrong in my thinking
All that said, I would absolutely vote for Trump over anyone the Democrats are likley to put forth. I would vote for almost any reasonable GoP candidate.
While I agree that Trump might continue to be ceaslessly assailed by lawfare from the corrupt Deepstate even if he were to drop out, that isn’t really an argument to support him for the nomination. That’s just another reason to try to get someone into power who may hopefully do something about the massive corruption of our system.
If they really wanted to get Trump, they would have the Bragg indictment dismissed (as it should be), perhaps have the Georgia DA decline to prosecute, and then have the DOJ Special Prosecutor indict him for obstruction and find a way to have a DC or Northern VA jury hear the case. That move would cut the legs out of a lot of the arguments against the prosecutors. (They would say, “Look, the poor cases were dismissed or not indicted. We’re only prosecuting the strong case.” – That argument would be persuasive to a big chunk of the public.)
But I think I agree with VDH, “getting Trump” is gravy. This is about power and 2024.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2023/04/04/victor_davis_hanson_prosecutors_want_trump_to_get_enough_empathy_to_win_the_nomination_and_then_gag_or_jail_him.html
VV,
WOW! You REALLY need to start paying attention!
Also — try logic as well.
The more you explain, the less sense you make.
Trump has been the victim of the worst persecutions in our nation’s history. Patriots with any sense at all understand that the only hope that America stands to survive is for honest, moral people to stand against outrageous injustice and fight.
Your fantasy that America will return to some utopia and Democrats will immediately stop their tyrannical abuses of power if only Trump would disappear is worse than insane.
Stop clicking your ruby slippers and reciting “there’s no place like home.” It’s not working and never will.
stan – They want to run against Trump in 2024. They’re trying to goad you into making that happen for them.
It’s working.
they went after ted stevens conrad black, lewis libby, bob mcdonnell, general flynn, and tom delay, it didn’t matter the case was bogus, but it served the purpose of knocking them off the board, in the first case permanently, they didn’t really go after david radler or any of the other hollinger board members, like thompson and kissinger for instance, of course they never went after terry mcauliffe nor his coconspirator, alexander mayorkas, james woolsey was much deeper into the whole erdogan game, then flynn ever was, of course need we bring up vin weber
and tony podesta,
Without a doubt, Alvin Bragg is the dumbest of the dumbest.
Bauxite, try rereading Stan and Turtler. I happen to agree with him and it really has nothing to do with just Trump. In Texas alone, this strategy of indicting Republicans includes former Governor Rick Perry for his state constitutional use of veto. Current AG Ken Paxton is under an indictment now for several years, because lefties in the AG office disagreed with him. As Turtler notes:
By all means, encourage Trump to disappear. I’m not entirely opposed to the idea. But the idea that the Left is so desperate that the entire apparatus of their political control and strategy for 2024 is contingent on Trump running for Presidency is a fable.
Get rid of Trump, and they’ll use the same strategy on the next Republican. Do you think the strategy to strengthen blue cities is all about Trump or even smearing Republicans? No. It’s about controlling the electoral numbers to their advantage. The smearing of Republicans is to make sure Democrats get away with it.
Here’s a better argument. Get Republicans to quit washing their hands whenever they think about Trump, and let’s see them get their hands dirty fighting Democrats with as much vigor as they oppose Trump. GOP voters are looking for the candidate that will do this best. If all you can do is whine; “we can’t help because it will help Trump”, then GTFO, because you are part of the problem.
1. If we let the Democrats use the judiciary to pick our candidate for us, we deserve to lose. Di Santis is really still an unknown, and there is the fact that Trump’s Presidency and re-election were stolen by Democrat criminality. That cannot go unpunished!
2. The other “cases” so many of the Democrats and RINOs anticipate are nothingburgers too. Georgia is based on the media hiding a significant exculpatory part of a supposedly “incriminating” conversation, and the Mar a Lago classified documents case is less dangerous to Trump than his own documents case is to Biden.
3. All this angst is in an environment where the Biden Chinese money is still being hidden. Once THAT comes out, Joey is toast – and that is what Republicans should be talking about to the exclusion of everything else! The media cannot censor news of Presidential treason if the Republicans refuse to speak of anything else!
“I don’t think Trump has an option to withdraw. He is in the fight until the end. I’m not sure I would vote for him in the primary but he is now a symbol. The LA Times is still running articles about how strong the case against Trump is. Obviously, the opinions of lawyers don’t count.”
I agree. What would it say, if corrupt Dem prosecutors could determine the Presidency? If they force Trump out of the race, they have proven that they can intimidate anyone, even a former President, deprived of reelection by massive, and very visible, voter fraud in the big cities in six states. In chess terms, maybe they have pinned the king. Republicans may be damned if they do, and damned if they don’t, but Trump giving up now would prove that the Dems, despite having put a senile serial liar in the WH, and an AA idiot bimbo right behind him, cannot be beaten. As Lincoln said about Grant – He (Trump) fights.
I’m disappointed that the conversation has turned to “it’s all Trump’s fault”.
President Trump isn’t the cause of Americas descent into chaos, nor will he be its savior. What he did do was expose how deep the deep state is, how corrupt our institutions have become and the breadth of the evil intent of those how want to “fundamentally transform” the country.
Notice the demonization of any populist, nationalist leader around the world– Le Pen, Meloni, Bolsonaro, Orban, etc. This is bigger than the US.
Those that are feeling Trump fatigue should consider how much of this comes from Trump and how much comes from the seeming obsession with Trump by the left. Is this irrational obsession, or an orchestrated psychological campaign?
As to this particular indictment– it’s a win for the left regardless of the outcome of any trial– which by the way won’t occur until 2024. Another interesting feature of this is that the judge is requiring President Trump to appear anytime his lawyers make a motion in the court. How much will that consume President Trump’s time?
Even if the case is dismissed, any reference to President Trump will include “indicted on 34 felony counts”, just as any story for the last two years includes the “twice impeached” reference.
Global events are going to change the dynamic of the 2024 election. These events may change minds as to who is best suited to deal with future crises.
next up clarence thomas, because he has stood up to the powers that be, for more than 30 years,
@stan at 11:00 a.m.:
Ok, you win; you are The Smartest Guy in the Room!
You: “Trump has been the victim of the worst persecutions in our nation’s history. Patriots with any sense at all understand that the only hope that America stands to survive is for honest, moral people to stand against outrageous injustice and fight.”
Me: Please support your statements with documentation and tell us in specific detail how we are supposed to fight. Otherwise you are just blathering.
You: “Your fantasy that America will return to some utopia and Democrats will immediately stop their tyrannical abuses of power if only Trump would disappear is worse than insane.
Stop clicking your ruby slippers and reciting “there’s no place like home.” It’s not working and never will.”
Me: Nothing in my post supports these “statements” (figments of your imagination) from you.
P-l-e-a-s-e- tell us exactly what would work, so we can do it!
Otherwise you are just blathering.
My father used to say, “Try to be useful as well as ornamental.”
I think that the reason that Bragg wasn’t more specific about the other crime is that he can’t afford to be. If he goes with a federal election law violation as his underlying crime, he faces the fact that the Feds passed on prosecuting him (and, no doubt, lacked the required specific intent). Plus, the state cannot actually prosecute him for the alleged crime, because of federal supremacy and exclusivity, but would have to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. Beyond a reasonable doubt, despite the Feds, who have exclusive jurisdiction, having decided not to prosecute (possibly because it a mere bookkeeping error was alleged, which may only be a civil infraction, and not a crime). Plus, it isn’t clear that a federal crime would work as a sentence enhancement (and statute of limitation extender) anyway. But the state election election laws are probably preempted by federal election laws, and whatever they allege may not be anything more than a civil infraction. They, of course, have to prove, at trial, that the alleged actions were committed by Trump, and constituted a crime (and not a civil infraction), beyond a reasonable doubt. Once the DA clarifies this, he will be attacked, and the idiocy of his charges made even more apparent. So, he appears to be clouding this as long as he can.
of course bragg is at best an accessory after the fact, he has made it a policy that allows excess deaths, in the world’s most identifiable metropolis, he makes the lives of every day new yorkers all that more dangerous,
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2023/04/05/professor-donald-trump-is-to-blame-for-alvin-braggs-legal-embarrassment-of-an-indictment/
Seven Things You Don’t Know About the Stormy Daniels Hush Money Case: If these trumped up charges were being used to disable a candidate in, say, Egypt or Russia, the U.S. State Department would condemn these tactics.
Two things I learned there. First, that NY law requires that “A plain and concise factual statement in each count which, without allegations of an evidentiary nature . . . asserts facts supporting every element of the offense charged and the defendant’s or defendants’ commission thereof with sufficient precision to clearly apprise the defendant or defendants of the conduct which is the subject of the accusation.” Secondly, that Trump actually reported the expenditures to the FEC.
Re the dispute above, between VV and Stan: I am reminded of the Dorothy Parker quip, when asked to use “horticulture” in a sentence?
The New York wag replied, “You can lead a horticulture, but you cannot make her think.” Thus, VV is being like her.
Sorry Neo, screwed up this post too. Can you delete it too?
@Bauxite
They obviously do. They would not have chased the Great Orange Whale for about a decade now even more fervently than you have if they did not want to get him. We can debate about how much they want him or when exactly they want the timing to get him to line up, but not that they do.
Ok. I’ll bite. WHY would they do all of this if they “really” wanted to get him?
As Ted Stevens and Mark Steyn have noted: The Process is the Punishment. Legal Cases have usually been ugly wars of attrition, and so forcing Trump to fight on multiple fronts (even forlorn hopes where he is sure to win) will help drain his resources and undermine him. As it does with most of their targets. This is even more true if they can them bogged down, especially with narrative control.
It’s always been about power and 2024 (and going on) but one of the ways to do that is to get Trump. And even after 2024 and a hypothetical Dem Victory I have no reason to believe they would let up.
More than anything they want to cultivate division and weariness in the Republican camp. Which is working. It is not primarily about Trump, though they are happy to try and use him as they see fit. They may want to run against Trump in 2024, but NOT more than they want to delegitimize the entire Right Wing of American Political Life and divide the GOP. Which is why they are happy to engage in double messaging towards both Trumpists and Anti-Trumpists so the divide can do their job.
WE ALREADY GODDAMN SAW THIS IN 2015 AND 2016. Hell, we saw it long before then.
Which is why ironically I note that AlwaysTrump and NeverTrump advocates tend to fall into the same hole and have similar compulsions. It is all about Trump. That he is the magic talisman that will decide the fate of the election.
I’ve never believed that, because I’m old enough to have remembered the start of this century and BusHitler and the like.
turtler – Two statements:
(i) Democrats’ abuses began before Trump and will continue after Trump.
(ii) In 2023, Trump is uniquely unhelpful in fighting those abuses and, in many ways, facilitates them. There are other Republicans who are willing and able to fight more effectively than Trump. Thus, sticking with Trump in 2024 is self-defeating.
Both of those statements can be true at the same time. Most of your replies to me focus on something similar to (i). But the truth of (i) doesn’t negate (ii). In fact, I completely agree with you about (i).
I would also add:
(iii) Democrats are very much aware of (ii), which is why they would like nothing more than for Trump to be the GOP nominee in 2024.
@Bauxite
So we agree there.
Had you been able to restrain yourself from writing “uniquely” i would probably have agreed with you. But UNIQUELY unhelpful? Have you no memory of 2008 or 2012, and of the still-strong McCain Camp? Of how “nobody” wanted to hear about Hillary Clinton’s Emails?
No. Trump is not uniquely helpful to the Left’s abuses. Period. Full stop. He at least is prepared to fight them and do so publicly. You can argue – and likely with a fair amount of reason – that several of his approaches are counterproductive or ineffective, but that is still a hell of a lot better than many of the alternatives, especially among the RINOs.
Ok, then kindly underline them. And I will show other Republicans who have proven much worse than him. Which is why I continue to needle you for your posturing and claims, Bauxite, even though I am no Trump Cultist and have largely agreed with our host about his follies and shortcomings. Someone claiming that Trump is “uniquely unhelpful” In confronting the left’s abuses tells me nothing about Trump but plenty about their biases and preconceived notions.
Correct, both of those statements CAN be true at the same time, they just AREN’T especially in light of the “uniquely” nonsense. Which is another reason why I needle you for obsessing over Trump in a manner rather similar to many of the Always Trumpers. Do you literally not remember what happened prior to 2016?
I sat through about a decade of George Dubya Bush being unable or unwilling to defend his own conduct and that of his troops when we discovered things such as the extensive documentation of Iraqi WMDs (such as they were) and connections to Al Qaeda, to the point where (because the left was so empowered to write the narrative) there are STILL people on this blog who do not know about things such as Saddam’s intelligence and diplomatic staff cooperating with Al Qaeda vassals in places like the Philippines for terrorist actions or the host of people who got wounded cleaning up Saddam’s WMD like the gas shells.
Unfortunately a lot of it DOES come down to “I can’t spare this man, he fights.” You can have justified issues with how well he fights or if he does it in a self-destructive fashion, but we are in a situation where simply fighting is an improvement, and one reason I have come to appreciate people like Cruz and DeSantis greatly (though with reservations) is their tenacity in the fight and how smart they are in it.
Which brings us back to discussing II, and the fact that I absolutely disagree that Trump is uniquely unhelpful at fighting leftist abuses,
Yeah, this is raw fantasy. They might want Trump to be the nominee because they believe he is a liability (though I am agnostic on the issue, ESPECIALLY after the humiliation they suffered in 2016), but they KNOW BETTER THAN YOU DO that he is not “uniquely” unhelpful at fighting back leftist abuses. Just look at the Supreme Court (one of the remaining bastions against the Left, at least as things stand) and his dogged pursuit of the Bidens for corruption.
Which brings us back to the fact that while Trump may not be the best candidate, he is VERY far from the worst or least helpful.
@VV
Thank you for the kind response, and sorry for that.
Impressive, and admirable. I do not remember when I started to read, though it was fairly early and I try to make up for it in volume.
Fair. Politics was of interest rather than true relevance to me from a young age, though not of real knowledge. But for me I am a child of 9/11, which remains the defining day of my life. I realized rather quickly then that I was involved in a war that well predated me and would almost certainly continue well after I died.
It is that that pushed me.
Agreed.
God, my sympathies. That is an incredibly cruel blow, and I am lucky I haven’t suffered it yet. I am younger and while my family’s financial situation is worsening it remains comfortable (especially as I can help take in), but I feel I am likely going to end up in those straits. And even if I didn’t, I would not be able to call myself Christian or even properly human if I did not extend my apologies.
Agreed, and while we may differ on the best way to do that, that is ok.
Agreed with caveats. I do think Trump will matter in 5 years, at least in a limited way. Trump the matter will be a notable chapter in American history but probably less important directly than we think. Trump the symbol I think will be very important to America as it exists, or what doesn’t. The issue is how we manage both the symbol and the man in a beneficial way without letting them suck the air out.
Understandable, and I can sympathize. Though this may not be reassuring, a big reason that helped propel Trump to prominence in the first place was reaction against the inefficiency of many on the right in the RNC..
Understandable.
https://www.revolver.news/2021/12/damning-new-details-massive-web-unindicted-operators-january-6/
The reason why Bragg is withholding the details of the basis of the charges is he is using Cohen’s guilty plea and conviction for the payments as the crime – in other words he is accusing Trump of covering up Cohen’s crimes that Cohen was already convicted of. Bragg doesn’t want Trump to be able to go to Federal court and get Cohen’s conviction overturned. By keeping everyone in the dark, it prevents Trump from filing motions elsewhere.
I’m puzzled by the delay in the next hearing until December. New York has a 6-month speedy trial statute by which felony indictments will be dismissed if the People aren’t ready for trial by 6 months after the action is commenced (here, the indictment filed). It isn’t 6 calendar months — there’s a calculation for who’s responsible for any delays — but nevertheless you can’t just build in an 8-month delay right at the start. Plus, there’s a separate speedy trial analysis under the NY Constitution that doesn’t have specific time limits but looks at several factors to see if a defendant’s speedy trial right has been denied. These aren’t requirements that can just be ignored at the whim of a prosecutor or even a criminal court. I must be missing something, but it looks to me as if they are scheduling the next hearing to invite dismissal.
I had the same question as Mrs Whatsit.
Thanks very much, Miguel.
Utterly damning…but not surprising to anyone who’s been following this disgusting travesty.
(Actually, I’m surprised that “Biden” is still allowing Revolver to exist…and I wonder when the long knives will come out for every single right-of-center news source, blog, pundit or commentator; though I suppose all that they have to do is pull the plug or sic their IRS Stasi on them….)
– – – – – – – – –
Regarding “I’m puzzled…”, why shouldn’t “Biden” want to screw Trump over every bit as much as “he”‘s been screwing over the Jan. 6 people?…(and the country generally).
These indictments will be coming in sequential waves, first being the Stormy Daniels case in NY, to be followed by indictments related to the election interference case in Georgia, to be followed by indictments related to the Mar-a-Lago document raid. The plan is to keep Mr. Trump up to his eyeballs in legal matters while spending time & money fighting on multiple fronts–with the hope that they can get a conviction somewhere from somebody.