Home » Open thread 3/17/22

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Open thread 3/17/22 — 34 Comments

  1. It seems like such a minor thing compared to other current event topics, but I am extremely jazzed that our nation may be ending the ritual of turning our clocks ahead or back twice a year. The Sunshine Protection Act. Everyone I have spoken with on the subject agrees and are in favor, but I didn’t know this has been tried before, and failed (see below).

    I have no recollection of this, but apparently, I lived through at least one attempt. Does anyone recall prior attempts?

    One of the complaints was the danger of school children heading to school in the morning in darkness and some issue with farmers. While I won’t disagree those were opinions held when it was tried before, I don’t understand them. Having gone through years of getting groggy kids off to school before sunrise I sympathize with the concern (the struggle is real 😉 ), but I think the problem is local school districts. Disregarding daylight savings time, sunrise varies by latitude and varies throughout the year. In the U.S., northern school districts should start class later in the day, especially in late fall and winter. I agree children should start school an hour or more after sunrise, I just don’t see what that has to do with Daylight Savings Time. Change the actual time on the clock that the school day starts. And it makes sense that may be different in Bangor than San Antonio.

    There are also a lot of folks in favor of stopping the bi-annual change, but insisting Standard Time is the way to go, not Daylight Savings Time. While I personally would choose Standard over Daylight Savings, I still think the arguments made by the other side are dumb. They focus on natural, circadian rhythms and the like.

    The numbers on the clock are arbitrary! If humans do better during certain windows of sun exposure adjust the schedule. Start work at 10am, rather than 9am, and work until 6pm, rather than 5pm. Or do 9:30 – 5:30. Or, whatever you like. Again, this also varies a lot by latitude. I worked for an employer who allowed employees to work ten hour days Monday through Thursday in Summer and take Fridays off. It was almost universally loved. We didn’t mind that two hours of our day, four days a week were during “non-business” hours. I personally found I got a lot done during those two hours as vendors and customers and other external, third party folks were offline.

    And now, with so many working remotely or hybrid, and commuting less, the time on the clock that corresponds with sunrise and sunset seem even less important.

    fox40.com

    Others who remember the lessons of the 1970s, however, may not be quite as excited.

    In a move to combat a national energy crisis in the United States, then-President Richard Nixon signed an emergency daylight saving time bill into law in late 1973 in an attempt to cut demand by extending daylight hours.

    Public opinion of year-round daylight saving time was high leading up to the bill’s passage, The New York Times reported. The nearly 80% approval rate in December, 1973 would fall sharply in the months after, however.

    Parents became worried about traffic accidents and the safety of their children, who were forced to go to school under winter darkness. By February, approval was at just 42 percent, according to the Times.

    In October of 1974 President Gerald Ford signed a bill returning the nation to standard time for four months of the year.

    Nixon wasn’t the only president to try out daylight saving time, however. During World War I President Woodrow Wilson, following the lead of German leader Kaiser Wilhelm, instituted the time change. The bill was widely hated by farmers and Congress ultimately scuttled it after the war, over Wilson’s veto.

    President Roosevelt also instituted daylight saving time during World War II, which he called “war time,” which was repealed in 1945 after several states and cities reinstituted standard time on their own.

  2. For an interesting perspective of what it’s like on the ground in Ukraine I recommend the fifth column podcast, “Moynihan taps in from Ukraine.”
    https://wethefifth.com/

    The Fifth Column is a podcast hosted by Michael Moynihan, Kmele Foster and Matt Welch. All three have been/are pundits, reporters, editors, television, or radio or podcast hosts/guests with the underlying dynamic that they are of a Libertarian bent. You’ve likely seen one or more of them on television.

    Regardless, this particular edition of their podcast doesn’t really touch on their political views, I don’t recall there being any Libertarian arguments against intervention, etc. The point seemed to be simply getting Michael Moynihan’s perspective on what it is like on the ground in Ukraine. Moynihan is working on a piece for “Vice” (I think written and video) and is embedded in Poland and Ukraine.

    What I found very interesting, and I think many of you would also, is the perspective from the youth who are there. “Vice” is sort-of a “gonzo journalism” outfit and its audience tends to be young and cynical. It’s very interesting hearing the perspective of folks there in their 20s, and their reasons for fighting. Also, Moynihan mentions that there are a lot of young men coming from other countries to fight. Mostly young men who have a political issue from Russia’s recent aggression in their homelands, or anti-Russian animus that has been handed down from their parents or grandparents. He has also met American men who are retired military and have independently arrived to help.

    With so many of the combatants being young much of the resistance is unconventional. They are very clever at using technology to communicate. I found it an interesting listen. It starts off a bit slow, but the last 2/3 had a lot of fascinating reporting.

  3. The US basketball player, Ms. Brittney Griner, was arrested for carrying marijuana, or some form of it, into Russia.

    Whether she did or not, who can legally prove that.
    So she faces 10 years in a Russian jail, for carrying illegal drugs, into Russia.

    Please everyone, I know I’m lecturing now, but- PLEASE do not take illegal drugs, such as pot, meth, cocaine, heroin or etc., or other drugs not wanted by a nation’s govt., into a foreign nation.

    Some nations in Asia, + in other places, give you high punishments for that action.

    Some places will give you life/99 years in prison, or the DEATH PENALTY, for that action.

    Please be very careful not to take such drugs into other nations.

    That’s all.

    Thus endeth the sermon.

  4. Rufus, your comment on using Tech by the young people fighting in the Ukraine kind of tally’s with something I mentioned yesterday at Instapundit. Someone put up a Drone Video of a Russian Tank being blasted (OK, “they” said Russian) by various munitions. My comment was that the Ukrainians are using real time drone video to track Russian movements. Eyes on the ground are now several hundred feet above ground.

  5. Rufus T. Firefly, I’ve been reading war reports at the WSJ, subscription only. One of the recent ones was about how a Russian attempt to approach Odessa from inland was defeated in Voznesensk, a town northeast of Odessa. Ukrainian military and local volunteers called in artillery strikes using an online app.

  6. Ukrainian military and local volunteers called in artillery strikes using an online app.

    Citizens calling in artillery strikes with an app is pretty much something out of a FPS video game. In a sort of darkly ironic “Black Mirror” way, modern warfare is becoming more like a Call of Duty online PvP match.

  7. Neo, did you ever try to learn the Minuet in G major, from the notebook of keyboard music that Bach compiled in 1725 for his second wife, Anna Magdalena Bach? This minuet was traditionally attributed to Bach himself, but as Anna Magdalena copied music by other composers into the notebook, this minuet is now attributed to Christian Petzold (1677-1733). Anyway, the Minuet in G major is a favorite learning exercise for beginning piano/harpsichord students:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1gGxpitLO8&ab_channel=TheGreatRepertoire

    This eighteenth-century melody has a post-history too; although Anna Magdalena’s minuet is in 3/4 time, a “girl group” called The Toys made a 1965 hit single with it called “A Lover’s Concerto,” in which the melody appears in 4/4 time:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmJ1AqtTuyo&ab_channel=JansLoveShack

  8. And now Putin calling for “purification of Russian society”. If true, then we are entering even more treacherous waters considering this guy has nukes and seems to be in complete control. Stalinesque purges??

  9. The general in charge of the National Guard column which failed to take Kharkiv has been arrested. According to the WSJ, coordination and communication among Russian units has always been poor, and still is. Military analysts at the WSJ also say that Western estimates of how much the Russian military had improved were far too high, and that the drive to modernize the Russian army has likely been hampered by corruption. No surprise. So, now, purges. That will fix things.

  10. I forget where I heard it discussed, may have been on the Fifth Column podcast I recommended above, but Putin is a dictator. Full stop. physicsguy and Kate’s comments touch on this. If news reporting is fact based why doesn’t the news call him what he is?

    Democratic People’s Republic of Korea. Supreme Leader of DPRK. We call the latter a dictator and the former a dictatorship. And that is correct. Who cares what Putin calls Russia, or what he says his title is? I hear plenty of people call him a tyrant, but then plenty of people also call Joe Biden or Donald Trump tyrants.

    Russia is currently a dictatorship run by its dictator, Vladimir Putin. The truth matters. A lot. We should call things what they are.

  11. Kate, I just saw that also. It would be good to know what the actual political situation is in Russia. I hate to depend on US sources of such information. Is the coming purge because he is losing control? Are there numerous alliances starting to work against him? Or the more pessimistic thought is that such purges are actually welcomed by the upper echelons and the public.

  12. Regarding my comment on the Sunshine Protection Act, I should have mentioned that States are still free to make their own rules, just as a few States do today. Arizona, parts of Indiana, I think Delaware also does something…

  13. Kate:

    I also wonder how committed the Russian generals are to fulfilling Putin’s dream. My guess is that some are and some aren’t. So perhaps some are less than enthusiastic?

  14. PA Cat:

    I’m familiar with it but never tried to learn it. I’m not all that fond of it, although it’s certainly okay. I chose the ones I chose because I liked the way they sound.

  15. Nonapod,

    6, 7 + hours of uninterrupted sleep appear to be a modern invention. I read a fascinating account of an Anthropologist who had a question about sleep patterns and was surprised there was barely any literature on it so she did her own study. Among nomadic tribes who live without modern technology folks seem to go in and out of sleep during the evening; sort-of two hour-ish catnaps here and there.

    Bi-modal, nighttime sleep seems to have been the human pattern for most civilized folks for hundreds (thousands?) of years. This article discussed the history: https://bigthink.com/surprising-science/for-1000s-of-years-we-went-to-bed-twice-a-night-2/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CSecond%20sleep%2C%E2%80%9D%20or%20morning%20sleep%2C%20began%20after%20the,people%20slept%20that%20way%20for%20thousands%20of%20years.

    Insomnia, or at least forms of it, may not be unnatural.

  16. Rufus T. Firefly:

    I have a vague recollection of that experiment and that it was abandoned because of schoolchildren in the morning darkness.

  17. physicsguy, I suppose it’s extremely hard to find non-Russian sources for what’s actually going on in that country.

    Neo, again according to WSJ reports, about 20% of top generals in the Russian forces in Ukraine have been killed. To the outside eye, admittedly not fully informed, it looks like purges are being conducted on those who have “failed,” without much regard for why the plans have not worked out. I read earlier that top intelligence officers had been arrested, for failure to tell Putin that Ukraine would resist as it has. Of course one’s career and life can easily be ended by telling the dictator what he doesn’t want to hear, and now, for not telling him.

    A Russian ship with tanks onboard was spotted headed south, off Japan. But as I understand it, Turkey has determined that since there is a war on, only ships based in the Black Sea/Sea of Asov will be allowed through the Bosporus. If this isn’t one of those, perhaps the tanks will not reach their destination. I don’t think Suez is restricting anyone at this time.

  18. Rufus T. Firefly said Bi-modal, nighttime sleep seems to have been the human pattern for most civilized folks for hundreds (thousands?) of years. This article discussed the history

    Yeah, I’ve recently read various articles about how back in olden times it was common for people to wake in the middle of the night, stay awake for several hours and then go back to sleep again for the rest of the night. As a somewhat infrequent insomonia suffer, it heartens me somewhat to know that segmented or interupted sleep patterns might not be as bad as they were once thought to be. Or at least that getting less than 6 hours total isn’t as detrimental over time as many once thought.

  19. So I looked at the latest sunrise times in Miami, FL and Seattle, WA (two well populated U.S. cities separated by about 22 degrees of latitude) for 2021. 7:09am and 7:57am respectively. Those times would be in Standard time, not Daylight Savings Time. Again, I think it’s a moot point whether we stick with Standard or Daylight, but if the Sunshine Protection Act goes through, those sunrise times in December 2023 or January 2024 (Sunshine Protection Act takes a year to go into effect) will be 8:09am and 8:57am.

    It’s already almost an hour’s difference between Miami and Seattle. No matter whom we choose (Standard or Daylight), why should Seattletonians be at the mercy of what’s convenient for Miamians, or why should Miamians be at the mercy of Seattlites preferences? And besides, those Seattlers are all hopped up on coffee anyway.

    Ignore the clock and most school districts in northern latitudes should just start the school day an hour later between Thanksgiving and Groundhog’s day, or Halloween and Valentine’s Day, or some other, arbitrary window.

  20. Delaware does nothing with the time, that would require politician to know the time of day, which as seen by Brandon they don’t.

  21. I’d certainly prefer permanent daylight savings to permanent unadjusted time. Up here in NY state during most of the winter months when the unadjusted time is in effect, it gets dark around 4pm, which seems a tad early for nighttime to start. And in the late spring/early summer when daylight savings time is on, it often doesn’t get dark until almost 9pm.

  22. Robert Shotzberger,

    Apparently, Indiana ended their county by county discrepancies in 2006. Here’s an interesting article explaining the controversy and also giving statistics showing that DST results in higher utility bills and more pollution.

    https://www.timeanddate.com/time/us/indiana-time.html

    If those last two stats are valid, Indiana could fix that by just shifting people’s work hours in summer months.

  23. https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2022/03/food_shortages_soon_come__what_to_do.html
    Farmers are being hit hard by shortages and skyrocketing inflation, just like the rest of us. Anhydrous ammonia, used to fertilize most grain and many row crops, has had a massive jump in price from $487 per ton in 2020, to $746 in 2021, to a record-breaking $1,492 per ton the first week of February this year.

    Opportunities currently exist for farmland to be put into paid conservation easements or fallowed into carbon credits. These require no inputs other than an occasional mowing but produce a guaranteed payment. Some farmers have taken advantage of these already.

  24. …in olden times it was common for people to wake in the middle of the night, stay awake for several hours and then go back to sleep again for the rest of the night.

    Nonapod, Rufus:

    That’s my understanding. My experience too. I usually awaken at 3 or 4am, stay up for an hour or so, then fall back asleep. (Sometimes I comment then, in case anyone wonders at my timestamps.)

    I’ve had depression-related insomnia and that is an entirely different and unpleasant beast.

    Back in the 70s Jane Roberts channeled an entity who called himself “Seth.” Really some of the best channeled material I’ve encountered. There are about a dozen books of Seth material out there.

    Anyway, according to Seth two-cycle sleep was the norm for humanity until modern times. This was before I had run into the idea blessed by sleep researchers.

    Whatever channeling is about, Roberts was the real deal. At the least it is a remarkable variety of human creativity. Worth checking out her books, if one has any inclination in that direction.

    Like many channels Roberts died comparatively young at 55. The last few Seth books were sad. I felt I had lost two friends, even if the message of the books was that no one truly dies.

  25. When I was a surfer kid in high school and lived a block from the beach, we would do our best in the spring to sneak in some waves before rushing off to school. By the end of the school year we could get in a good session.

    Then Daylight Savings Time happened.

    Just as dawn came early enough so we could catch a decent number of waves, DST plunged the morning waves back into darkness. We were back to riding the glassy waves of morning only on the weekends.

  26. Here is a rare, almost nonexistent, event. A productive climate change related debate — in this case, concerning energy policy

    “Alex Epstein Vs. Andrew Dessler: Should America Rapidly Eliminate Fossil Fuel Use to Prevent Climate Catastrophe.”

    The first is the author of “The Moral Case for Fossil Fuels. The second is professor of atmospheric science at Texas A&M University.
    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/03/14/epstein-vs-dessler-should-america-rapidly-eliminate-fossil-fuel-use-to-prevent-climate-catastrophe/

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