Norway: the slings and arrows of outrageous mass murder
A bow and arrow attack in Norway has left five people dead, and there is reason to believe it may be some form of Islamic terrorism although the main weapon is unusual:
The suspect, a 37-year-old Danish citizen named Espen Andersen Brathen, had converted to Islam and there were fears he had been radicalised.
However a motive has not yet been determined.
Police in Norway don’t carry guns – something I first learned while researching the Breivik shootings in Norway. I wrote an article for PJ about it – an article I described and commented on in this post from ten years ago. But PJ has removed the piece that appeared there and so I can’t give a working link to that one, although I preserved all my PJ articles on my own computer because I thought they might disappear some day.
To refresh your memory, the gist of it is that because the police don’t carry weapons there, a SWAT team was summoned to the island, wasting precious time. In addition, there was no helicopter available to transport them (see this for the rather shocking facts – including that the police helicopters there were only for “observation” rather than transportation).
The Norwegian police policies were woefully inadequate to deal with that sort of violence, and it appears that little has changed during the ensuing years. For example:
The attack was first reported at 18:13 (16:13 GMT) on Wednesday. Police confronted the man six minutes later, but he shot several arrows at them and escaped. He was eventually caught about 30 minutes later.
It was during this time, between being first approached and then arrested, that the victims were killed, the police chief said.
A woman was also stabbed at a nearby intersection, witnesses told local media.
Police fired warning shots when he was eventually arrested, but it is not clear if officers were armed when they first came across the suspect. Norwegian police do not usually carry guns on them – weapons are stored at police stations or in their patrol cars.
The article then goes on to mention that this was the deadliest in Norway since Breivik’s attack in 2011.
And this is interesting: “After the attack, police officers nationwide were ordered to carry firearms as an extra precaution.” I’m going to assume this is a temporary directive.
The Norwegian welfare state is a far cry from the Vikings. Those guys didn’t leave their war-gear back at the mead-hall.
Prayers up for those sacrificed to this evildoer and his gods.
Norway does not have a tradition of peace through superior firepower. It has not had a large standing army since its army was first officially organized in 1682. At the time of the German invasion in 1940, the Norwegian Army numbered about 19,000 men, who were unprepared for the German attack. Their equipment was obsolete, the primary firearm being the 1894 Krag–Jørgensen rifle. The present Norwegian Army is quite small; according to its website, it has 8,463 soldiers and employees. Of these, 3,147 are military and 4,593 are conscripts.
The army is not much larger than the Norwegian Police Service, which presently has 8,000 officers. The police are not only ordinarily unarmed when on patrol, they must obtain permission from the chief of police or someone designated by the chief in order to use the weapons locked in their patrol cars.
Unarmed police or no police means anyone wanting to go on a murder spree can even use outdated yet lethal weapons.
If a firearm would have been available to the jihadist it would have been worse. Afghanistan flush with firearms of will show up in jihad attacks.
“police officers nationwide were ordered to carry firearms as an extra precaution”
My image-meter is stuck on Barney Fife of the “Andy of Mayberry Show” with his one (1) issued bullet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SycxTpgVFk0
Among other nations, Norwegians have voluntarily decided to provide an historical lesson in what a committment to passivism brings; national suicide.
Ah ha. I was thinking that it is not so bad if Norwegian cops have the guns in their cars, as long as they can grab them on their own initiative. Then PA-Cat enlightened me. They can’t.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQBhUzEsO-Y
Barney Fife was a Democrat.
Interesting. I wonder what he actually used. Recurve? Compound? Crossbow?
I don’t think that you could easily kill 5 people – but then they are late middle aged or elderly – with standard field tips. He must have had access to razor edged broadheads. And practiced with them.
Five slain with arrows in 30 minutes. It’s fairly instructive; if awful.
If you want to have unthreatening weapons–not sufficiently weapon like to fall under the next ban–the wayback machine is the way to go.
An atlatl and associated darts is pretty obvious even if nobody thought to ban it. A smart cop would recognize it and, illegally, confiscate it.
But a three-foot stick slightly curved, with a groove almost to the end can be hidden in the woodpile and if you don’t sand it down and what not, look innocent. And ball bearings. You don’t need to stock pile them. Take something apart, some kind of junk. Lead slugs.
I recall hearing, long ago, that the Wrist Rocket sling shot was regulated as if it were a pistol.
https://www.slingshotforum.com/threads/saunders-wrist-rocket-pro-fps-question.15113/
Some inner tube cut down.
Point is if I, who’s not interested in such things, can figure them out, so can some motivated clown even if he’s hot getting advice on Jihadi Junction website.
a
From a picture of one arrow at Ace it wasn’t a crossbow.
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/396007.php
”
I don’t recognize an arrow, much less any bow. And I clicked on the internal links
Well, they will have a nice emotionally satisfying time doing it I am sure. They can leave flowers and teddy bears, hold hands and light candles, and snivel in each other’s faces, lips trembling, teary-eyed.
DNW,
Strange. There’s a picture of an arrow stuck in a wall down a ways in the post. Looks to be a long carbon fiber shaft.
Random comments:
1. How long until someone says that bows and arrows have to be banned or regulated?
2. I read somewhere that all five of the fatal shootings occurred after the police had already engaged the suspect. Obviously, if the police had guns, the result would have been different.
3. I suppose that police not carrying guns could be seen as a prevention against accidentall shootings. Every society has to weigh, for themselves, the risks and benefits. Norway may be forced to revisit their policies.
DNW:
The Bible tells us that “the meek shall inherit the Earth”. And it is true. But, they inherit very small plots… about 3′ by 6′.
DNW,
I’d choose compound and here’s why; https://boingboing.net/2015/01/23/ancient-speed-shooting-archery.html
Can’t remember where I ran across this guy but it’s a real eye opener.
Roy,
I’d guess it depends upon how suicidal the society…
“2030 – that’s when we take over” a popular t-shirt slogan worn by Muslim youth living in Sweden
Reminds me of the joke about British cops when they didn’t carry guns (maybe some do now): “Stop! Drop your weapon and put your hands up or I’ll . . . ask you again!
It would be a fairly atypical choice of tool for the modern-day jihadi; they seem to favor edged melee weapons these days, though they say there were some quite good archers among the Janissaries, I believe.
Then, too, the fact that it took this person half an hour to kill five people means that he thought about what he was doing while he was doing it.
(Where is Fortinbras?! We might have used him just then.)
I saw a report that one victim was stabbed so he did have a knife, or else he used an arrow as a hand held spear, but that seems unlikely.
I had a .45ACP sidearm, with a 12 GA, and an AR in the squad. Wisconsin Norwegian Police have a different opinion about weapons.
Neo wrote:
“Police in Norway don’t carry guns – something I first learned while researching the Breivik shootings in Norway. I wrote an article for PJ about it – an article I described and commented on in this post from ten years ago. But PJ has removed the piece that appeared there and so I can’t give a working link to that one … ”
For Neo, and anybody else who’s interested:
Missing web pages can often be found by going to archive.org, and then entering the original link (i.e. URL or uniform resource locator) in the search box for what the “Internet Archive” calls their “Wayback Machine.”
Here’s the archived link to Neo’s original article at PJ Media:
https://web.archive.org/web/20120829234223/http://pjmedia.com/blog/gentle-justice-meets-mass-murderer/?singlepage=true
(I’m trusting my memory on this, so take it for what that’s worth.)
I’ve read that Minnesotans of Norwegian descent have about the same violent crime rates as Norwegians in Norway. The grip of ancestry holds true, despite the different number of guns held by the immigrant vs. the original population — and despite the different constitutional protections.
As far as Wisconsin Norwegians are concerned, their reputation is a little sketchy, but I have no data (insert smile emoji).
Cornflour:
Thanks.
That is just anti Norskie propaganda, generated by Swedes from Minnesota. Norskies from WI, are loveable, and cuddly, hence our use of the Badger as our emblem!
Cornflour, Scott —
Swords. Now bows? Come on, what about america s ar 15 pea shooters, surely that can stop satan?
Nope https://projectcamelotportal.com/2021/10/11/nano-particles-jump-from-thing-to-thing-person-to-person/
Witness the end of your age humanity. And learn something like job did.
That is just anti Norskie propaganda, generated by Swedes from Minnesota
I understand that there is a traditional rivalry in Minnesota between St. Olaf College (Norski) and Gustavus Adolphus College (Svenska). In addition, there was a Norwegian-American humorist named E. C. Stangland who wrote a poem about Norwegian victories over the Swedes and Danes (the “snoose” or snus in the poem refers to a type of moist snuff placed in the upper lip):
Ten t’ousand Svedes ran tru da veeds
Chased by vun Norvegian
Ten t’ousand more ran to da shore
In da battle of Copenhagen.
Vay, vay back in history
Back ven da vorld vas new
Norvegians searched all over
To find some snoose to chew.
Dey fished for Lutefisk and Torsk
It helped to make dem strong
And you and me, ve know a Norsk
Cannot do nutting wrong.
But Svedes and Danes were envious
Of Viking trips and raids
Da Viking shields and helmet horns
Made all dose folks afraid.
T’roughout da world da Vikings sailed
To Ireland and France
Dey even found America
One afternoon by chance.
My grandpa says, and he should know,
Da Svedes made up their minds
To beat da Norsky Vikings
And kick a few behinds.
But history, so Grandpa says,
Shows dat da Norskies von
Dey clobbered all da Svedes and Danes
And made it lots of fun.
Ten t’ousand Svedes ran tru da veeds
Chased by vun Norvegian
Da dust from da veeds made snoose for da Svedes
And dey called it COPENHAGEN!
Ok. I thought that that was a line added for illustrative purposes.LOL
My monitor shows nothing more than a narrow black band slanting across the frame. No evidence of cylindricity, no reflection of light, no fletching, no head, no entry marks. And it looks disproportionately narrow. But I don’t shoot carbon fiber shafts, and it seems they might be more slender.
I won’t look it up, in order to keep myself honest here.
So, yeah I suppose it could be a carbon fiber shaft, photographed at night against background light. I even downloaded the image and put it in a photo processing software and nothing, just a Paintbrush-like slanting line.
Maybe it’s my monitor.
At Attwoods, a store that sells feed, tools, western clothes, live chicks, guns etc, they were selling three foot long spears a couple of years ago. I kid you not.
I did not buy a spear, but I have bought a few boxes of shotgun shells and a pocket knife from there.
Roy Nathanson,
Regarding the meek inheriting the Earth. That is from the Sermon on the Mount, in Matthew chapter 5.
For the greater context, read Psalm 37, especially verses 10 and 11.
Psalm 37 has application to what we are seeing today in America.
I challenge everyone who is in despair over the current situation to read it.
This was a Psalm of the warrior King David.
The whole sermon on the mount is easily interpreted wrongly if it is taken out of its OLD TESTAMENT context.
Phillip Sells.
Yeah, that’s a poser, isn’t it. So we have a guy who is so stone-cold that an excuse of instant-jihadi outburst doesn’t fly. It’s worse than that if you’re looking at the effect of Islam. No hesitation, no compunction, no buck fever.
OTOH, he may have run through this so many times that it came automatically. Not so good, either.
Roy,
This is a link to a sermon that my pastor, Michael Gossett, of the Texas mega church Green Acres Baptist , recently preached on the very verse you quoted. ( Yes, I know, funny name for a church. I hear the song from the old show “Green Acres” in my head when I say the name. ) https://www.gabc.org/episode/powerful-weakness/
Many sporting goods stores sell machetes that are just modern versions of various roman swords.
DNW,
I did the same as you, tried to enhance the image. I’m just going on the picture which appeared in a news article about the attacks, captioned to say that this was an arrow stuck in a wall, and the fact that there is police tape in the picture. I too saw thin and black and figured only a carbon fiber shaft could be like that. But I could be wrong.
It’s been reported as a compound bow – you can find that mentioned in one of the articles linked from the article.
Also I’m not surprised that the police issued warning shots when executing their apprehension. If their firearms deployment policies are very restrictive and seldom employed, the officers likely don’t handle their firearms very well. They may be advised to take ‘warming shots’ because it’s safer than if they attempt aimed fire.
The same considerations are encountered in some Asian countries where guns are rarely employed by police . For example, some cities in China have gone back to revolvers that they set-up to have very heavy double action triggers. The logic being that a revolver is relatively simple to operate, and a heavy double-action trigger is less likely to be actuated inadvertently. The limited ammunition capacity, relative to an autoloading pistol, is seen as a safeguard against excessive and poorly aimed shooting.
I have to add if that is a picture of one of the arrows stuck in a wall then the arrow heads would appear to not be broadheads as the hole on the wall is just round with no visible, to me, side cuts, so either a target or a field head. Also from the other things in the picture about 18 inches of the shaft is in the frame.
PA+CAT: THAT WAS LOVELY, (SNIF)
Thank you, Jon Baker! A Psalm of comfort, in these Progressive times!
Scott beat me to it, but thank you jon baker for the Psalm 37 reference!
An update (from Reuters, so consider the source) on the Danish jihadi arrested for the bow and arrow attack. He seems to have chosen older adults as his targets, particularly women:
“Four women and one man, all aged between 50 and 70, were killed in what appeared to be a random ‘act of terror,’ according to police. Three others, including an off-duty police officer, were wounded. The attack lasted 35 minutes before police apprehended the assailant.
The trial in the case is still months away. Police have said Braathen is cooperating with the investigation. He will not oppose a request to keep him in detention, and will be subjected to a full psychiatric evaluation, his lawyer Fredrik Neumann said on Thursday. The outcome of that evaluation could determine whether Braathen risks being sentenced to prison or committed to psychiatric care.
Prime Minister Jonas Gahr Stoere, who took office on Thursday after winning elections last month, will visit Kongsberg on Friday together with Justice Minister Emilie Enger Mehl.”
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/norway-court-decide-detention-bow-and-arrow-attacker-2021-10-15/
PA Cat wrote:
“The outcome of that evaluation could determine whether Braathen risks being sentenced to prison or committed to psychiatric care.”
And that decision in turn will decide whether Norway considers conversion to Islam a mental health issue.
Cornflour beat me to it, but yes, always remember the Wayback Machine.
https://web.archive.org/
They don’t back up every page — there is a tag to tell them not to, and they honor it (it’s actually about “spidering” for google-search engine type activities, but they treat what they do as the same, though it is nominally different.)
There are many many lost pages of interest — for example, all those great and glorious long-form political essays of Bill Whittle from his Eject! Eject! Eject site a decade+ back — which can still be read (and, in his case, at least, are as timely now as then)
For example
Tribes:
http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000129.html
Rafts:
https://web.archive.org/web/20141214223942/http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000132.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20141214223834/http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000120.html
2011 ineptitude on the part of the state reminds me so much of One Day in September.
OBloody Hell,
I had not noticed Whittle hadn’t ported his old stuff to his current digs
Odd.
Regarding the Norwegian reluctance to let their police carry firearms: my gf and I recently watched a Norwegian mystery/police procedural titled “Wisting”. The different Norwegian and American attitudes on this issue become part of the plot. Two FBI agents have come to Norway to hunt a Norwegian/American serial killer who apparently has moved to the old country. The FBI agents are surprised to learn that Norwegian cops do not carry guns and have to get special permission to take out the ones they have in their cars. The Norwegian cops respond by sniffily referring to the Americans as “gun crazy”.
Interestingly, when the Norwegian hero is ambushed by the killer and is losing the fight, he is saved by the female FBI who shoots the bad guy. I don’t know if this implies a criticism of Norway’s no gun policies or just appealed to the script writers as a dramatic scene.
People who oppose the police being armed, have never been the only available deputy, and having to clear a building by yourself. Or made a felony stop at 0400.