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How most Democrats view the Afghanistan pullout — 59 Comments

  1. Biden’s numbers in various polls (perhaps, like many surveys, of dubious value) may have been sinking, but tens upon tens of millions still consider him (against all the evidence and contrary to many incontrovertible facts) to have been a better choice than his predecessor (obviously the epitome of evil). That so many of our fellow citizens (large numbers of them being “credentialed morons” of supposedly high intelligence working in government, the law, academia, the media, technology, the corporate world, etc) can be so irrational and so incapable of thinking clearly is certainly most dispiriting to contemplate, as well as auguring badly indeed for the future of the republic.

  2. I heard the detestable Joe Scarborough on MSNBC’s Morning Joe today. His view that only a “few vets” would remember this come 2022 and that most voters would forget about it.

    Kabul is Joe Biden’s legacy and, I, for one, will never forget.

    The Dems are run like the Mafia. Dissent isn’t tolerated. Everyone gets paid.

    And did you notice no leaks from this WH? Jack Posibec had one leak that Jill told Joe to stand firm on 8-31.

  3. Some of the stranded Americans are parents and children from the Cajon Valley Union School District in CA: “At least 24 students from the Cajon Valley Union School District in El Cajon and 16 parents are stranded in Afghanistan after taking a summer trip abroad. They are among thousands of individuals waiting to leave the country amid political unrest caused by the U.S. military pullout after 20 years of occupation.

    Cajon Valley Supt. David Miyashiro told school district board members via text message Tuesday that he and other Cajon Valley staff met virtually with U.S. Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Bonsall) and his staff about the situation. Miyashiro said that the families are on special visas for U.S. military service and that the Department of Defense considers them allies.”

    The quote here is from the LA Times; it’s embedded in a column that will not require a subscription to the Times: https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2021/08/25/americans-stranded-in-afghanistan-plea-for-help-as-biden-prepare-to-abandon-them-n2594716

  4. The reason Biden may not be driven from office by Afghanistan is simply that his dementia is being scrupulously hidden by the media. He may well scrape through this only to go on to commit even worse atrocities. The Democrat leaders and the media own whatever comes next! The Republicans had better speak up – not just Trump!

  5. At this point I’d hesitate from engaging in too much “mind reading” when it comes to the Democrat electorate other than to agree that many of them are almost certainly experiencing some pretty bad cognitive dissonance. It’s difficult to admit that you may have been wrong. And there’s the old “fallacy of sunk costs” that comes into play and disincentivizes self analysis. Sadly in modern times so much of our identity can be tied up in our political beliefs.

    As to Joe Scarborough’s opinion, it doesn’t seem likely (no matter how hard he may wish it to be so) that regular voters are going to easily forget this moment even with all the distractions that are likley to appear over the coming year. In fact, I predict that there will be at least one other major crisis within the next year that will fairly be laid at Joe Biden’s feet. It seems as if Biden’s incompetence is as vast and boundless as the Universe itself and as long as he remains in power the only certainty is more chaos, not less.

  6. Judging by the “listserv” of my former DC neighborhood, the topic of Afghanistan has been totally channeled into virtue signaling: “Help! Anyone know where to donate for Afghan refugees?” is the title of about 15 of the 20 or so messages today.

    Last week we had a visit from one of the two long-term friends who explicitly broke with us last summer over George Floyd. We were surprised to hear from him. He’s a retired State Dept guy, who always put himself out as a “moderate.” And in our conversations, I’d characterize his attitude as “I’m a moderate — you’re an extremist” rather than “let’s talk over our differences.” I was left with mixed feelings. He dubbed Jan. 6 an “insurrection” (trying to argue that George Floyd riots and Antifa were its equivalent, and that somehow press coverage was more critical of them than of Jan. 6!). That brought both my husband and I down on him like a ton of bricks — and he really had no answer when we didn’t accept his bait.

    He’s still “proud” of his vote for Biden (and “Biden never said that America was a racist country”). As for Afghanistan (which had fallen the previous day) he just said that it was always going to be “messy.”

    On the other hand, he did show back up.

  7. Cognizant Dissonance does not apply to religions. Leftists have replace God with the various -isms of Climate Change, Never-Trump, CRT, etc. Remember that results do not matter, only intent matters. No amount of real world experience can change a religion.

  8. The pause is the perfect example that liberals can’t think for themselves and require the guidance from the msm to formulate an opinion for them to express. They now come back with a new talking point, biden was sabotaged by trump on Afghanistan by pulling out all the major assets.

  9. A lot of conservatives like me are reassessing our previous support for the Bush adventurism in the middle east. I see no evidence from my liberal/left children of similar musings. “Daddy stop watching Fox News !” Since I don’t watch TV, that is not helpful.

    I think that the Afghan imbroglio will fade as we enter rough financial weather assuming the left manages to spend their desired $7 trillion. I do wonder if anyone will obey the Supreme Court’s order on the border crisis? Perhaps the next terrorist attack will focus attention.

    I see no grounds for optimism.

  10. Since now biden turns his back on america so often and we now see his back more than his front i think its time for him to update his implant by covering up his bald crown.

  11. There will always be those who will insist that Biden is doing a magnificent job, and that all the problems we see are either nonexistent or Trump’s fault. That’s a given. Some will do so because they can’t admit they were wrong, and some will actually convince themselves that they aren’t wrong. The question is how many people who are still open to ideas, such as the friend Neo describes, will change their views in the fact of obvious realities. We’ll have to wait and see. But it’s tragic that so many people will have to suffer so much to bring that change of views about.

  12. And did you notice no leaks from this WH?

    It’s a Democratic administration. The leaks will see print only if they’re helping one Democratic faction over another without injuring the whole.

  13. PhysicGuy’s number of 60,000 rescues comes from a DNC talking point that is being circulated. If that were real and included US citizens we’d be seeing tearful family reunions here and at US bases in Europe. “Thank you to President Biden blah, blah, …”. My YouTube MSM feeds from CNN, ABC, CBS, MSNBC, etc. only show stories about COVID. Something very fishy is going on. Let ‘s see what happens in the next few days.

  14. “COGDIS”
    …Which might be why the following will not, if ever, be widely known or believed (if the media can help it).
    Yes, Praise the Great “Biden” for his exemplary, masterful and strong leadership! Meeting all challenges! Prepared for all eventualities!! Where would we be without “him”….
    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/american-troops-call-it-world-war-z-shocking-images-capture-post-apocalyptic-scenes

    (Which is, BTW why those two US fact-finding, truth seeking Senator who flew to Afghanistan…were so excoriated.)

  15. When does willful blindness, effectively become active collusion? Opinion may differ as to that tipping point but that the line exists is indisputable.

    It’s the Taliban, through al Jazeera’s auspices, televising dozens, hundreds? of beheadings of American citizens and vociferous reports of the sexual enslavement of American women that will prevent the democrats and their mass media propagandists from flushing Afghanistan down the memory hole.

    But let us not forget that other events are occuring. While our attention has been focused elsewhere, Lindsey Graham has voted for every one of Biden’s judicial nominees: https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/tucker-carlson-exposes-sneaky-lindsey-graham/

    As per usual, France acts as the canary in the left’s coal mine; “The Gestapo is back in France… No Vaccine, No Food For You!”
    “In France those without a vaccine passport are being denied entry to a grocery store.”
    https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/the-gestapo-is-back-in-france/

    How can this be? What about France being a signatory to the “Declaration of Human Rights”…? (sarc/off)

    Macron et al have apparently forgotten that, starving people literally have nothing to lose, other that is than to take as many of the bastards down with them as possible.

  16. I have already seen that “only” 1500 Americans remain in Afghanistan. Another bogus number. Sept 11 this year will not pass without some very bad thing happening. Not pretty.

  17. The one upside to the political mindset of a lot of Democrats and liberals, at least as far as I can tell, is that it’s less tribal than is suggested and more like the very intolerant opinions people can have on fashion or literature or music or obsessing over wanting two characters on a TV show to jump into bed.

    Mike

  18. Wait til the savages (in Afghanistan) start doing videos of heads being chopped off and women stoned to death. The mainstream will try to suppress it but enough will get through to create ongoing uneasiness. And we’re only in the first year of this treasonous imbecile’s reign of wrong.

  19. From what I see on Twitter and elsewhere, the burgeoning leftist spin is all about dual American-Afghan citizens, with plentiful volleys of “LOL” and straw-man BS when anyone raises the question of how many Americans are about to be, yes, stranded in Afghanistan. These people make me sick.

  20. I fear that many Afghan Americans who were here and assimilated volunteered to go back to help out. They have been betrayed. I knew an Afghan OR nurse when I was still in practice. I hope she knew better then to trust Democrats although Bush Republicans aren’t much better.

  21. From what I see on Twitter and elsewhere, the burgeoning leftist spin is all about dual American-Afghan citizens, with plentiful volleys of “LOL” and straw-man BS when anyone raises the question of how many Americans are about to be, yes, stranded in Afghanistan. These people make me sick.

    You had one person on these boards who implied and one who stated outright that Americans from wealthy families who were in Afghanistan for one reason or another deserved whatever injuries were done to them.

  22. It is an error to proclaim “cognitive dissonance” as an excuse or process among the Left.
    The Left has been brainwashing Americans for more than two generations. Look at the Mass. university faculties, Neo, in your own backyard. They indoctrinate, do not teach, and 90% consider themselves very liberal or liberal.
    Cognition is not involved.
    Is it or is it not easier for a black to get into Harvard than an American of Asian descent? Or a white American?

    As a result, a majority of millenials, the most-“educated” group ever, are anti-capitalist, pro-socialist. All they need is a Stalin waiting in the wings to lead them.

  23. @Kate: “So Afghan-Americans aren’t American? I thought leftists were so pro-immigration.”

    Not when it comes to Cuban refugees, as we’ve seen. And while waiting for their talking points, quite a few leftists were goose-stepping along to the slur du several jours, which falsely portrayed Republicans/Deplorables as going full xenophobe on Afghan refugees as a whole.

    In any case, the new talking point about dual citizenship appears to be a stalking horse for what Biden and his enablers don’t quite (yet) have the balls to say — that if any Americans are stranded in Afghanistan, it will be their choice and/or their fault.

  24. In the past all the Commander in Chief would have to do is task the Military to get a job like this and it would happen. US military does or did logistics better than any on the planet. Have our military deteriated this much!

  25. You are about to be reminded that much of the western feminists movement is only concerned with women’s rights with the straight white “patriarchy. “ And abortion.

  26. You are made of stronger, more confrontational, stuff than I am. I do not ask because I do not want to know what the Biden supporters in my circle think. Generally speaking I know the answer without asking. They have proven over the years to be consistent offensive defenders of the party first and foremost. Facts are of little consideration and consequence. They will defend Biden if even in the weakest of terms by saying he is simply not Trump – which is, for them, good enough.

  27. Having grown up in an uber-Liberal suburb of Boston and watched these behaviours throughout my teen years, I can tell you that progressive leftist Liberals will go to any lengths to avoid admitting they’re wrong about something, even embracing borderline-neurotic issues like admitting to extreme cognitive dissonance or denial. That way, it’s not really their fault, you see – it’s the proto-illness talking. Believe me, in the expansive comfort of their own self-nurtured superiority, they’re really that stupid, believing you to be even more-so.

    I wonder who the genius was, that organized the high-school trip during a well-advertised troop withdrawal. Now, that’s what I call an education. I hope they make it out OK.

  28. Scrolling through Twitter, I keep seeing lefties say, “Biden’s been warning them for months to get out. If they didn’t, that’s their fault!”

    Honestly, I don’t know how much he did (or didn’t) warn anyone about us leaving (sorry, I try not to pay attention to him any blue moon he comes out of his basement to speak), but did he ever give a definite date he was pulling the military out? How much warning DID these people have?

  29. Well, physicsguy, if you keep on relying on FB, for a view of your “lib/D friends”, you’ll continue to be mired in dreck.
    Most of the folks, who post politics on FB, are the most degenerate beings in the country.

  30. I’ve dealt with a couple of folks who’ve had dementia. At the beginning, the logic is okay, but the premises shift as necessary.
    Reminds me of libs defending the indefensible.

  31. The only thing that can change the world view of a liberal progressive – maybe – is if the politician or policy they support does a U-Turn and harms them personally and very badly.

    Someone once mentioned that it is easy being a communist while living in the USA. This is of course true, because the US domiciled commie is immune and exempt from the disastrous policies that the “other guy” (the guy that actually lives in communist hell hole) has to endure.
    It’s easy to prescribe policies that the “other” guy must adhere to, and where the cheerleader for these policies is not going to suffer any consequences at all.

    The disaster that is now unfolding in Afghanistan , however disgusting and disgraceful, is occurring on the other side of the planet and the victims are all unknown to 99.99% of the US based liberal progressives.
    So, they simply do not care. It is not affecting them, their job, their livelihood, their life. They frankly don’t give a shit.
    And you know they don’t give a shit because when confronted with the facts, they just blame you know who.
    They don’t even bother for one second to think things through.
    They don’t care too.
    This is their way of saying, “don’t bother me with reality, I don’t care, it is not really affecting my life in any real way, I don’t know those folks over there, so F off.”

    And there you have it.

    As Mike Savage said, “liberal progression is a mental disorder.”
    That sounds about right to me.

  32. What NS said (at 9:41).

    How were they supposed to have known?
    How did WE find out.

    If anything, this seemingly mundane, non-controversial trip SHOULD BE PROOF of the “Biden” surprise regarding the pull-out; PROOF that there was no foreknowledge (or not much) regarding the decision to GET OUT NOW.

    (IOW No one apparently knew enough to tell them NOT to go. And I’m sure they can’t be the only travelers who found themselves abandoned.)

    Indeed, hope the group gets out, along with all of the others.

  33. I think neo’s riff on cognitive dissonance is entirely appropriate to understanding Democrats’ response to the Bug Out.

    Cognitive Dissonance theory was put together in 1957 by the social psychologist, Leon Festinger — a major academic figure in the mid-20th C.

    I’m also fond of Festinger’s related work on cults in the book “When Prophecy Fails” (1956), which is also appropriate to the discussion. Festinger studied a doomsday cult which specified a date for the end of the world. When the world failed to end, Festinger noticed that some members fell away, but some became even more convinced!
    _____________________________________________

    Festinger and his co-authors concluded that the following conditions lead to increased conviction in beliefs following disconfirmation:

    1. The belief must be held with deep conviction and be relevant to the believer’s actions or behavior.
    2. The belief must have produced actions that are arguably difficult to undo.
    3. The belief must be sufficiently specific and concerned with the real world such that it can be clearly disconfirmed.
    4. The disconfirmatory evidence must be recognized by the believer.
    5. The believer must have social support from other believers.

    Festinger also later described the increased conviction and proselytizing by cult members after disconfirmation as a specific instantiation of cognitive dissonance (i.e., increased proselytizing reduced dissonance by producing the knowledge that others also accepted their beliefs) and its application to understanding complex, mass phenomena.

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Festinger
    _____________________________________________

    Social environment trumps rational thinking.

  34. NS > I agree with the prayers for the safety of the kids and their parents; however, the story I read today mentioned that it was NOT a school sponsored trip, and that they are holding spots open for the students when (did not say IF) they returned.

    https://abc7.com/socal-students-afghanistan-cajon-valley-union-school-district-san-diego/10974915/
    “They had gone to Afghanistan to visit their extended relatives on a non-school-sanctioned trip.”

    @ Barry > “No one apparently knew enough to tell them NOT to go. And I’m sure they can’t be the only travelers who found themselves abandoned.”

    Indeed. Although State or whatever agency which had to approve their visas may have advised them not to go, I would say that’s doubtful. And their families didn’t quash the plan, but we know the Afghans were blind-sided.

    HOWEVER, Trump’s May deadline was set last year. Biden extended it in March to September, so the families shouldn’t have been totally clueless; but, they would have been expecting to be back home for school before 9/11.

  35. I should have said PROOF for an audience that is (somehow!) UNWARE of how the British and other NATO members with troops on the ground in Afghanistan (as well as citizens and non-citizen employees, e.g., translators, living in that country) were TOTALLY and UTTERLY blindsided by their Great Ally and fellow NATO member, the US.
    And LIVID.
    And able to get people out while the US army was told to stand down (with resonating echoes, of course, of Benghazi. Benghazi on steroids).

    Heck according to reports (which may have been denied, but if so I haven’t heard it), the US LEFT the Bagram air base WITHOUT even telling the Afghani military that they were leaving.

    But I imagine that factoid just gets massaged into the ‘ “Biden” did what had to be done’ Democratic Party propaganda meatgrinder….

    And Psaki talks about “responsibility”. (Just another word REDEFINED by the Democrats and their foul media helots.)

  36. WRONG: “They’ve got 60k people out in the last few days! They are doing a wonderful job!”

    ACCORDING to independent British SAS sources cited by the Daily Mail, out of 26,000 people air lifted by Biden, there were only 3 to 4,000 Americans in the FICUS “wonderful job” exiting Kabul.

    The Brits in country are complaining about doing the American’s job for them — and even air lifted Yanks have also credited the UK with doing Biden’s work for him. The bastard deserves the illegal immigrant’s style scorn.

    Leftists are such useful idiots, the Tools of Tyranny, the Voice of out Master class of Kakistocracts.

  37. Cicero:

    This post isn’t about leftists, nor is it about prominent people in the Democratic Party or activists or professors or anyone in that sort of position. It’s about people who reliably vote Democrat without paying any sort of close attention except to take in what the Times or theWaPo has to say, who are not politically involved, but who are merely reading the paper or watching a little bit of CNN and are trying to figure out what to think about what’s going on right now.

  38. Oops. I see that this article was already linked to in the sidebar (“Ideologically Lobotomized….” by Reformed Sojourner)…Apologies.

  39. As was mentioned in several comments Afghanistan is a distraction from the other “Biden”-induced (and planned) crises—e.g., Covid, southern border, inflation, etc.—and conversely, the recent expostulations revealing the creeping totalitarianism of “vaccination blackmail” are, in turn, distractions from the Afghan debacle.

    Below are two links to some recent articles on how to fight COVID without the necessity for vaccinations and government-encouraged fear pornography. Although the article are recent they describe effective —and relatively inexpensive—alternative that are at least a year old.
    https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/nitric-oxide-nasal-spray-reduces-covid-19-viral-load-95-within-24-hours-study
    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2021/08/joseph-mercola/frontline-care-doctor-shares-how-to-end-covid/

    Would appear that “relatively inexpensive” together with the relative ease of (and autonomy with regard to) using these alternatives are the key reasons why they must be suppressed.

  40. …As Kabul International airport gets more potentially lethal (if not unexpectedly so).
    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/us-allies-halt-evacuations-kabul-airport-over-another-imminent-isis-threat

    Key grafs:
    ‘Belgium, the Netherlands and Denmark all said they would no longer be able to facilitate airlifts from the Hamid Karzai International Airport, which continues to be surrounded by crowds of thousands of desperate Afghans (and foreigners) struggling to get through. The US embassy warned Americans on Wednesday to “leave immediately,” and stay away from the airport.

    ‘The UK and Australia issued similar warnings, with Australians describing an “ongoing and very high threat of terrorist attack”….’

    Indeed, the cat appears to be toying with the mouse….

    (Nice group of countries trying to get their national out, by the way.)

  41. Nigel Farage pulls no punches:
    https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/matt-margolis/2021/08/25/nigel-farage-blasts-biden-britain-feels-betrayed-wont-assist-u-s-military-ops-while-hes-president-n1472650

    Key graf:
    ‘ “Certainly, if it’s a Biden or Harris administration, honestly, there is no way, there is no way a British parliament right now would vote for military cooperation with America led by this administration,” he continued. “And that’s a very sad thing to say, because since 1917, the UK and America have been side by side in virtually every major conflict. We’ve been the closest allies in terms of military action, in terms of intelligence sharing, in terms of culture, in terms of business.” ‘

    …which essentially says that NATO is shot (but it doesn’t take a genius to have figured that one out).

    And so, another “Biden” achievement that Democrats can wax lyrical about….

    Yep, crisis by design…

    …which one could always spin as a generous gift to Putin from his friendly poodle Donald Trump. (Gotta keep that Narrative(TM) alive AT ALL COSTS!)

  42. Neo. “trying to figure out”. I put it another way. They know what to believe. They’re trying to coordinate what they happen to know–true or not–to support what they already believe.
    I suppose you could say they’re trying to figure out what to make themselves believe to support what they know they’re supposed to believe.
    They’ll never believe Biden is a massive loser. Never. So they have to figure out how to believe he’s okay. They’ll never believe Trump was okay–mean tweets–so they need to believe whatever it takes.

    Maybe we have two levels of belief: The top one—Biden’s really okay–is supported by the lower one–whatever nonsense they come across. The latter is pretty slippery. Whatever fits, and don’t remind them of what they said last week. The top one is written on titanium tablets. It will be supported. By the intellectual equivalent of Jello.

    As I say, it’s like dealing with dementia patients; what they said in the last paragraph doesn’t count or even exist if it turns out to be inconvenient.

  43. Independent reporter Michael Yon extrapolates from how Taliban treat other Afghans.

    Biden is abandoning thousands of Americans, Japanese, British, Germans, French, Afghans, and others, to horrific fates.
    Expect videos soon. Taliban have long habit of beating passwords from victims, raping men and children, while making videos with their own phones, and sending the videos to everyone on the contact list.

  44. John Kirby: “We can confirm that the explosion at the Abbey Gate was the result of a complex attack that resulted in a number of US & civilian casualties. We can also confirm at least one other explosion at or near the Baron Hotel, a short distance from Abbey Gate. We will continue to update.”

  45. So even the statements that the Taliban are in complete control of Afghanistan aren’t true. ISIS-K is making a bid.

  46. ISIS (and others in the future) will be the Taliban’s cutout[s] to take the blame.

    I’m surprised they aren’t blaming the CIA or the reformed Northern Alliance.

  47. I have some questions for every Colonel in the U.S. Military.

    I have none for Generals because to gain that first star, far more often than not requires political whoredom.

    I would ask;

    Does an oath sworn to defend the American Constitution from all enemies both foreign and domestic… mean anything if those who have sworn that oath stand by and do nothing as that Constitution is betrayed and eradicated?

    Can the U.S. Military retain any honor, if it continues to follow orders that effectively destroy the lives of thousands of Americans in a foreign land?

    Does honoring the chain of command and honoring civilian control of the military supercede defending the Constitution?

    When the U.S. Military’s upper echelons and its civilian leadership essentially render aid and comfort to America’s declared enemies… when does ‘following orders’ become collaboration?

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