Trump and the vaccine
I imagine it will be a few months before I have the chance to get a COVID vaccine. I’m oldish but not mega-old, I’m not a health care professional, and I’m going to assume that places me in a group with some priority but not high priority. Despite a little apprehension at the quickness of the development of the vaccine, I’m leaning towards taking it just as soon as I can. I’d really like to approximate a normal life again – or whatever passes for normal at that point. In particular, I want to visit my family.
But there’s something to be said for waiting a bit, because once a certain percentage of the population has been immunized, COVID will become harder and harder to catch because the virus will find it more difficult to find victims in time to infect them. So if you’re wary about vaccine side effects, waiting might make some sense.
Most of you are probably thinking about all of this, too, and where you might fit in.
The other day I was talking to an old friend on the phone. This is a woman who – like most people I know – is a Democrat. I’ve known her for thirty years, but she’s never been a leftist or especially political at all. We almost never discuss politics.
This time we were talking about COVID – how tired we were of the whole thing, and how much we yearned to be able to see family members. I mentioned that I was looking forward to the availability of the vaccine, and probably would take it as soon as offered, and that I hope it will help us all to put COVID behind us. She said yes, she hopes so too, and then added that it would have happened earlier if it hadn’t been for “our president” – that latter phrase said with some anger.
I have to say that I hadn’t seen that coming. I actually asked her whether she meant Trump or Biden – that’s how momentarily confused I was by what she’d said. I knew she hated Trump, but what on earth was she talking about specifically? She made some vague reference to Trump’s foot-dragging and silence on the subject.
I said that he had actually expedited things – had she ever heard of Operation Warp Speed? As I started to explain, she made it clear that she didn’t want to talk about it anymore.
Just another reminder that even facts that may seem obvious and undisputed have been twisted, covered up, and/or lied about in myriad ways that reach and convince a huge number of people – and that these perceptions of Trump’s wrongdoings and evil nature have been used to construct, bit by bit, a huge and impregnable tower of falsehood that becomes an overwhelmingly obvious truth in the minds of otherwise well-meaning, loving, and intelligent people.
Yep, Neo, they flee from critical thinking and “the unaccustomed torture of facts.”
But, like AOC and nearly all on the liberal/left they worship at the alter of their secular religion of Man Made Global Warming…Oooooppsss… Climate Change.
I find it interesting that you think “there’s something to be said for waiting a bit.” It seems to me that we should all be eager to get the vaccine as soon as possible. The sooner average people are protected, the less transmission there will be and the earlier we can all get back to life as normal — if we are allowed to do so. I have seen some speculation that governors will keep states locked down, and I suspect there’s a lot of truth to that.
The policy of vaccinating health care professionals first is also interesting — they have presumably been working around infected COVID patients for nearly a year now and have not been infected themselves. Does it make sense to innoculate them against something they have not caught, despite being surrounded by infected people?
As for your friend who thought Trump delayed development of the vaccine, that’s a sorry situation. It would have to be an awful good friend for me to keep up that relationship. Not worth it, for me.
I have a close FB friend from grad school who is left of center, but not totally gone. He has a knack for stirring up trouble in his posts, partly because the majority of his friends are much further left than he. Yesterday he put up a post on how he is looking forward to taking the vaccine. He had several friends say they either weren’t going to take it, or would wait a substantial time to see what the overall effect would be. The donnybrook then started. OMG, such nastiness I haven’t seen unless it was directed at a Trump supporter. The basic line of attack was that anyone who didn’t take a vaccine was a selfish, terrible person who didn’t care about anyone else and was willing to make everyone else, including children sick. There was a response where one person threw back the line in their faces of “My body, my choice.” Then the war got even more nuclear. It went on and on. Last I looked there were over 100 comments of which 90% were vicious attacks against those who were hesitant about the vaccine.
It’s easy to see where this is going with the left. Not too long from now, some brown shirt will be asking “To see your papers!!”, which will be your vaccination record, without which you will be physically and socially isolated.
Neo: I’m a little younger than you but nearing the age bracket where in theory I should be concerned about the risks from Covid. I am torn on the issue of the vaccine, and I must say I don’t trust the officials who are pushing this so hard. I’m not an anti-vaxxer – I get the flu shot every year. And it’s not the speed with which they developed this vaccine per se. It’s just that this is the first licensed vaccine using modified genetic material to coax your cells into creating a facsimile of the virus (or parts of the virus). It may be that there’s no problem with this, and they claim to have verified its safety. On the other hand, how much data could they have on this based on the limited trials they have run since the spring? Sure, any near term side effects would show up within the time of the trial, but what about long term impacts of monkeying with your cell’s genetic function? It’s one thing to tell someone who has late stage cancer to give such an approach a shot, but to ask a perfectly healthy person who is simply worried about the chance they might get sick from Covid? Of course my biggest fear is that it won’t be a matter of choice for us down the line. It may be required for employment, travel, shopping, etc. Not a happy thought.
CBS – Los Angeles:
UCLA Survey: Majority Of Nurses Wish To Delay COVID-19 Vaccination
https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020/12/14/ucla-survey-nurses-delay-covid-19-vaccine/
I asked and I have permission to share this. If you are concerned about the vaccine, you should watch it.
https://vimeo.com/483289970/8966b52de8
As for your friend, this vaccine was developed to the point where it is now being used in the general population in 9 months. The previous record for production of a vaccine was 4 years. Most take 10 or more. Anyone thinking this was slow and blaming Trump for it is not facing reality.
physicsguy: “It’s easy to see where this is going with the left. Not too long from now, some brown shirt will be asking “To see your papers!!”, which will be your vaccination record, without which you will be physically and socially isolated.”
It’s being openly discussed. From their point of view it seems quite rational, even obvious: why should you, unvaccinated, be allowed to walk unknown among other people, putting them at risk? Just as rational as the solution someone I know proposed back in the summer to stop the spread of the plague: do not allow people to go out of their homes. At all. Enforced by the National Guard where necessary.
Leftism is intrinsically interested in putting pretty tight controls on people, but in this country at least it’s long had the color of bohemian nonconformity and so forth. So I keep being surprised at the way it keeps jumping out, especially among people who still wave the noncomformist flag. But that’s older people. Younger ones in my experience are often more straightforwardly dictatorial in their ambitions: “if it’s right, the government ought to make people do it.” And they seldom have doubts about what’s right.
Monte Meals:
Unionized health care workers from a probably deep blue employer cast doubt about a vaccine produced when Orange Man Bad was dictator. Shocking news.
We must always trust Nurse Ratched.
Where is Montage to provide corroboration of the truthiness?
” . . . even facts that may seem obvious and undisputed have been twisted, covered up, and/or lied about in myriad ways that reach and convince a huge number of people – and . . . these perceptions of Trump’s wrongdoings and evil nature have been used to construct, bit by bit, a huge and impregnable tower of falsehood that becomes an overwhelmingly obvious truth in the minds of otherwise well-meaning, loving, and intelligent people.”
My experience exactly, Neo. Sigh.
And I’m already looking forward to explaining that, no, Mayor Pete will not be the first openly gay person to hold a cabinet post in a US administration.
Researchers have been after a flu vaccine for 50 plus years. What we have for all that is only about 40% effective. But now we have a 90+ % effective China Flue vaccine in nine months or less. I have to call Bravo Sierra on that.
While I do believe in miracles , I do not include them in my battle plan.
They are already moving the goal posts again. Now you still have to wear a mask even after both shots. And don’t you dare travel.
At this nothing surprises me anymore.
Keith:
I call Bravo Sierra on your Bravo Sierra.
See this for some relevant facts.
Griffin:
Do you have a link for that? Is it in your state, or are you talking about something else?
My sister-in-law, a hospital nurse in LA, is scheduled to get the vaccination soon. In addition to herself, she worries about my asthmatic brother and bringing it home to him.
We’ll be in the group getting the shots in late winter to early spring, septuagenarians but no other risk factors. We’ll go for it because of our elevated risk. By that time, any major immediate problems with the mRNA shots will be reported. Check Alex Berenson’s twitter for the truth. Not very many older people were in the test populations.
I see little reason for healthy, non-obese people under 50 to bother, unless they’re medical personnel and therefore might be more heavily exposed than the general population.
As to people thinking Trump dragged his feet on this, I am astonished. Media propaganda works, obviously.
Don’t have a link but some doctor named Gupta was on MSNBC with Chuck Todd yesterday scolding a nurse that got the vaccine and wanted to travel. He also said that until everybody gets vaccinated masks are necessary. I heard it on Dennis Prager this morning.
I have learned a lot about vaccines and vaccine companies, and about the players in this drama, from Robert Kennedy, Jr. He often is accused of being an anti-vaxxer, but he’s not. He would willingly take and recommend any vaccine that is both safe and effective. I recommend him and his website to anyone who wants to learn more about vaccines. His website is childrenshealthdefense.org.
Pretty much decided that my 90 year old mom is going to get the vaccine but the main worry is side effects like extreme fatigue. She’s 90 and been locked in a small apartment for almost year so she gets fatigued pretty easily so what does extreme fatigue on top of that mean. Plus since only one family member can enter facility and only for short time who will be monitoring her? Hopefully she won’t have severe side effects but I think we are going to bring her home with one of us for couple days after shot just to be safe.
Still not even clear what protocols will be at her facility after residents get vaccinated.
‘Making it up as we go’ should be the motto of 2020.
Griffin:
I have no doubt that there are talking heads who will say that sort of thing. In fact, I assume there are people who would like us all to wear masks from now on, period. I’ll be interested in learning what official instructions our insect overlords will be handing out, however.
I’m not an anti-vaxxer I just expect it to be 100% safe, 100% effective, and have 0% side effects. It must also reverse male pattern baldness and/or burn “belly fat.” Other that that I have no expectations for this or any vaccine, except of course that it must also be free. (sarc x infinity)
Don’t ask about precious bodily fluids. 🙂
Neo
Per your bravo Sierra on my Bravo Sierra , I have been wrong before. I do worry about being too cynical , but it usually turns out I’m not cynical enough.
I applaud your courage in being early on this. I’ll just wait awhile , out here in the woods.
Here is a link an article about this Dr Gupta guy’s comments on MSNBC.
http://www.foxnews.com/media/msnbc-medical-analyst-vaccine-travel-masks
And come summer this clown and his like will be saying don’t travel and keep wearing masks because fall is coming around again and the vaccine is wearing off or something. Evil.
Speaking of Alex Berenson, here he is, quoting a professional who was involved in the vaccine development, suggesting about age 60 as a reasonable cut-off. Below that, don’t get it unless a medical professional or with serious co-morbidities. Side effects, if any, may be like the Shingrix shot for shingles. That was not fun for my husband, but not serious.
https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1338958650480746496?s=20
Griffin @ 4:22 – I saw that clip too on REDSTATE and Tucker Carlson. More social control. Also it was Fauci who advised against travel. The sooner that canker sore on this nation passes from the scene the better. He helped fund the “gain of function” virus that the Chinese developed.
Neo – I have two friends that are ardent Trump haters. No rational reason for it, they just don’t like his style. Facts just will not work. Every time they spout off mainly about his racism I just keep hitting them with the fact that he increased his minority vote share from 2016 so are they just stupid? Also how does the passage of the Second Chance Act repealed the 1994 Biden crime bill makes him a racist? It usually shuts them up. Just keep at it. Change is a process and not a moment.
If Harris is inaugurated as President it would be marvelous to put up billboards with a picture of Trump with the words “Miss me yet?” It was funny when they did it with Bush during Obama’s first term. Biden I believe is on the edge of a breakdown. He is now down to the point of 10 minutes speeches and that is after pumping him up with drugs. A truly pathetic figure that I will not hesitate to point to my two friends that they voted for him.
Will I get a vaccine? Yes, the faster we try and get away from Frau Whitmer the better.
The arguments saying Trump did a poor job with COVID rely on revisionist history or him having and using some fantasy dictator authority which they’ve spent 3 years accusing him of going too far. Namely forgetting key facts and dates for some magical best path forward. It is deep and hard to counter because it is magical thinking.
E.g. should have had a nationwide mask mandate despite the facts that the president has no authority, CDC was saying masks didn’t matter so much into April, etc.
Nationwide shut down, despite the fact that these aren’t working, and of course the borders must remain open.
Should have copied some other country that is having “success” at the time, the country varies month to month.
I have heard the warp speed criticism that Trump didn’t order enough vaccines, totally forgetting as you noted before this is way sooner than any other vaccine and had never been done before, some random Democrat would have surely done it better.
Perhaps I am stupid I just don’t get why if the vaccine is effective that people vaccinated are still not safe until everyone is vaccinated. I get the argument on masks since they insisted that the masks are most effective in preventing particles from coming out of someone contracted of the virus then preventing an healthy individual from inhaling it, but no one is safe until everyone is vaccinated notion makes no sense to me. liberals are so addicted to “your action endangers not just yourself but the others as well so we must take away your freedom to protect others” argument they are applying it on everything even on things that don’t make much sense.
The WSJ has a nice graphic on the side effects of the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines. (Scroll half way down.)
Here is the long FDA doc. on the Pfizer vaccine. On page 48 we have this summary:
It looks like there is roughly a 70 to 85% probability of experiencing some level of discomfort, though it always amazes me when I look at the placebo numbers. The placebo group had roughly a 28 to 35% probability of some discomfort. The so-called Nocebo effect. The big problem, as reported in the news, is the possibility of severe anaphylaxis at perhaps 0.12% probability. Would an epi-pen be a cure for that or does one really need a crash cart?
neo writes, “Just another reminder that even facts that may seem obvious and undisputed have been twisted, covered up, and/or lied about in myriad ways that reach and convince a huge number of people — and that these perceptions of Trump’s wrongdoings and evil nature have been used to construct, bit by bit, a huge and impregnable tower of falsehood that becomes an overwhelmingly obvious truth in the minds of otherwise well-meaning, loving, and intelligent people.”
Like, what can I say? Two incidents in the past 24 hours:
– A very dear friend of mine of half-a-century’s standing sent out a Christmas message that began with a mini-diatribe about Trump. I wrote out a response, and repeatedly edited it for *two* *days* while I softened the tone. My final product was gentle, subdued, but it did quietly point out some things that needed pointing out. All snark had been removed, no anger was evident in the response, and I think my brief points were pretty well thought out and expressed.
I got my reply, and my friend addressed *none* of my points, but veered off into how Trump was even worse than Nixon (whose name had not been brought up before) and how Trump couldn’t accept that he had lost. I could have gone into how there is a lot of evidence (affidavits and all that) whose contents need to be publicly aired, how Gore didn’t concede until about this time in December 2000, how Hillary and, for that matter the entire establishment, still has not accepted that Hillary was defeated in 2016 — but why bother? To be led off on another fact-free wild goose chase? It was virtue signaling run amok, whereas calm, considered *thought* need not apply.
– I was curious about the nor’easter slamming Dee Cee today, so I thought I’d peek in on Washington Post dot com*. I never made it to the weather page. The headlines alone were gag-worthy. The extreme bias even in how the headlines read was enraging and depressing. Once again, it was nauseatingly laid out for me how we and the other side are living in parallel universes, watching different movies in different movie theaters, with nary a point in common between the two universes/movies.
“Impregnable” indeed. “Falsehood that becomes an overwhelmingly obvious truth,” permanently so. Joseph Goebbels, call your office.
I’ve had people assure me (assure themselves, really) that when our descendants look back, they’ll see how [wrong, wrong-headed, mistaken, horrific, choose your adjective] the dominant political and social culture of our generation was — and I remind them that it wholly depends on which historians get to write the history, and what might be their ideological bias(es). Past performance is no guarantee of future results, but I find it *very* hard to dredge up even a shred of optimism about what the recorded history of 2016-2020 is going to look like.
—– —– —– —– —–
* no, I don’t pay to get behind their paywall. But I figured their headlines and weather are free of charge.
}}} Younger ones in my experience are often more straightforwardly dictatorial in their ambitions: “if it’s right, the government ought to make people do it.” And they seldom have doubts about what’s right.
That’s because they never ever imagine it can and will be used against THEM on something THEY don’t think is right.
It’s akin to Aryeh Neier’s comment on Censorship:
Those who call for censorship in the name of the oppressed ought to recognize it is never the oppressed who determine the bounds of censorship.
Same thing. The arrogant “I’m always right. No one would ever imagine for a minute otherwise.“… These idiots need to go live in a despotism for about 5 years. If they survive, we can consider letting them come home.
Risk management protocol. Most people, old included, are at low risk for disease progression. There are effective, inexpensive, low-risk early and mid-range treatments (e.g. HCQ cocktail, Ivermectin protocol) to mitigate disease progression. Meanwhile, check for symptomatic individuals. Wash your hands with soap and water to control cross-contamination. A mask offers limited protection, should fit snugly against the skin, and must be replaced often to control cross-contamination, and ingestion and ejection of evaporated droplets. Also, if you wear a mask, don’t forget the goggles. The eyes are a window to contagion.
BTW, on the mask wearing thing… Something I’ve been saying for literally 8-9 months, now.
Wearing a used mask could be worse than no mask amid COVID-19: study
https://nypost.com/2020/12/16/wearing-a-used-mask-could-worse-than-no-mask-amid-covid-19-study/
First, it notes that they don’t really work that well against particles as small as virii, second, and more critically, no one pays any attention to the sanity of the masks, and that can make wearing them MORE dangerous than no masks.
Seriously. If it’s damp, it’s not doing its job with effectiveness at best. If it hasn’t been sanitized and it is re-used, it’s not doing its job, either. How many people have these semi-permanent masks (as opposed to the disposable kind) and wash it even once a week? Rather than every other hour?
“Covid things that make you go hmmm…”
Jon Miller
“Despite the virus, US deaths this year are literally no worse than they’ve been for the last 10, and may even be on track to go DOWN.”
2010: 2.5M
2011: 2.5M
2012: 2.5M
2013 :2.6M
2014: 2.6M
2015: 2.7M
2016: 2.7M
2017: 2.8M
2018: 2.8M
2019: 2.9M
2020: 2.5M (as of Nov.)
https://www.citizenfreepress.com/breaking/covid-things-that-make-you-go-hmmm-2/
“FDA staff recommends watching for Bell’s palsy in Moderna and Pfizer vaccine recipients”
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/15/fda-staff-recommends-watching-for-bells-palsy-in-moderna-and-pfizer-vaccine-recipients.html
A 1 in 10,000 risk of getting Bell’s Palsey from either vaccine.
M J R, my daughter outside DC, in the northern VA suburbs, reports about an inch of snow before it turned to sleet and rain. Might be slick tomorrow morning before temps go above freezing, but otherwise, no blizzard.
It’s just that this is the first licensed vaccine using modified genetic material to coax your cells into creating a facsimile of the virus (or parts of the virus). — Gothamite
I had previously incorrectly thought that the mRNA vaccine technology for making the the SARS-CoV-2 spike glycoprotein was a factory production operation and that only the spike protein is injected in your arm. That actually is the process for the not yet ready Novavax vaccine, which may never be ready. Or it could come in small quantities at high prices.
So Gothamite is correct, the Pfizer vax is injected in your arm muscle and those cells manufacture the spike proteins. I presume that it works a bit like a one-and-done virus replication. This would imply that the end point of that replication is that some of your muscle cells get filled to the bursting point with spike proteins and spill their contents. Hence muscle pain. However, while Pfizer tests show a 37% probability of muscle pain, the Moderna tests only show about 5% probability. Moderna has been working on this technology longer than anyone (I think).
There is an experimental vax technology out there that modifies the test subject’s cellular DNA in some cells. This tech. carries a legitimate fear that the subjects will have permanently modified DNA in their bodies. But that does not appear to be a concern with the mRNA vax technology.
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I don’t have the link, but there is a businessman from Hong Kong who got quite sick with COVID-19 back in Feb. or March and recovered. Then he traveled to several of the really infected hot spots in Europe and got sick again. But the severity of his sickness was much less. Experts say that a person’s immune system gets stronger with each exposure. And it was only one guy.
But if a person feels sick with COVID-19 then they are shedding the virus. Some say that amount of shedding is roughly proportional to how sick the subject is.
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I heard Fauci state recently that we need at least 80% immunity in the country for the disease to begin to die out. But some researchers claim that the correct number for a non-homogeneous society is much lower, perhaps as low as 45%.
While I can see Kate and other’s logic that middle aged people aren’t going to die from COVID-19 anyway, it is also true that the disease will continue to circulate until we get to at least 45% immunity in the population.
Slightly off topic, but I thought worthy of sharing, nonetheless. Kevin Roche takes a close look at covid data that *should be* collected & reported on, but is not.
His target is Minnesota, but his questions are more broadly applicable.
https://healthy-skeptic.com/2020/12/15/minnesota-does-not-have-the-best-data-in-the-country-not-even-close/
I listened to doctors on Michael Medved’s show here in WA yesterday. The priority here seems to be healthcare and EMT workers first. Then nursing home residents, firefighters, police, grocery workers, farm workers and other essential workers (Teachers?) Then those over 65 and non-essential workers. My guess is that my number will come up some time in late March, early April. But I could be wrong as the Guv, King Jay, wants to make the distribution equitable. Meaning, I think, that tax-paying, white, older curmudgeons will be quite low on the priority list. I can live with that. Another four months of what we’ve been doing for the last nine will not kill me. (I hope.)
What burns me up is the complete blackout on therapeutics. The monoclinal anti-bodies have been approved by the FDA. Why no celebrations? They have saved POTUS, Dr. Ben Carson, and probably others less famous. Why aren’t we using them to slow the disease at this time of surge? How about Ivermectin? It’s being used successfully in other countries. As is HCQ. All of these treatments must be used before the patient develops pneumonia, but the medical community will not do anything until you get pneumonia. In the face of the pandemic, why are they not authorizing large trials? Why are they throwing up their hands and doing nothing for people until they are deathly ill? My guess is that they are worried about liability claims or are worried that all the money to be made off vaccines might be lost. Maybe I’m too cynical. Why can’t patients be allowed to ask for HCQ or Ivermectin, or monoclonal anti-bodies under the Right to Try Act? The deaths increase, the economic losses increase, and people suffer in loneliness, in loss of income, in loss of housing, and more. Yet, these medical bureaucrats fiddle and tut, tut about how it “wouldn’t be prudent” to use meds that seem to help if given early in the infection’s progress. This is not the country that won WWII.
About carrying a vaccine document. When we visited Africa in 1997,you had to carry a document showing your immunizations in order to get into countries in Africa. Which made sense. They didn’t want you to get sick in their countries. When I deployed to Vietnam in 1964, we had to have a bunch of different shots – plague, cholera, yellow fever, meningitus, Hep B, tetanus, etc. You had to carry your card with you to prove immunization or they could send you to sick bay for the shots. I know it smacks of dictator rules, but since we have become a low trust society as a result of the political squabbles, I think it may be necessary until the virus is under control. Think of it like your driver’s license, passport, or social security card. A form of ID that you need to live your normal life.
What I don’t get is what one doctor said yesterday. He claims that the vaccine only prevents you from getting very ill. That even with the vaccine, you can get infected, but only with a mild case. But during that mild case you can infect others. That means it doesn’t work like any vaccine I ever heard of. Does anyone else know if this is true?
Geoffrey Britain:
Since Bell’s palsy occurs for unknown reasons at a certain rate in the general population, it will occur in vaccinated people and the question is always whether it happens more often in vaccinated people and therefore might be causative. For example, if you do a search for “Bell’s palsy and flu vaccine” you’ll find lots of studies on whether flu shots can increase the incidence of Bell’s palsy. So when there’s a new vaccine like the COVID vaccines, medical authorities are on the lookout for Bell’s palsy statistics post-vaccine. This is the situation for the COVID vaccine so far:
Geoffrey Britain:
And about those excess deaths or no excess deaths, I’ve read very contradictory things on that.
Kate (6:14 pm) writes, “M J R, my daughter outside DC, in the northern VA suburbs, reports . . .”.
Thanks for that. Mainly, just curious: I lived in the Maryland / Dee Cee area for just about all my adult life, and two of my three offspring are still in the area.
Keith:
I know what you mean about cynicism. Mine grows by leaps and bounds but cannot keep up with events.
Me feeling is that we will be required to carry a card that indicates that we have been vaccinated for the virus to get into stores, restaurants, etc. and not just to travel. And yes the masks are here for a very long time because they say so.
On another note just found out that my cousin in Dallas had the virus in Oct, as did her son and his family. She is 74, like me, and said that is was not that bad.
My wife had a doctor visit today and ask her about the two main vaccines. The doc said that she believed that the Pfizer one had less side effects. And she would take it as soon as she could. She does have some health issues.
It lends some understanding of how a civilized country like Germany could have fallen so far. I don’t expect that observation to sell well among the Jewish population, but there it is. No one is immune, but some have more resistance than others.
Emphasis added:
I run into that surprisingly often. A person makes a false statement, usually outta da blue, and just as I start to disprove his or her false statement, the person raises his or her voice and says words to the effect, “I don’t have time to discuss this.”
Neo. Is it possible that your friend has what might be considered a standard-issue personality overwhelmed by one-sided information?
Or would it be that she needs, in the strongest possible terms, to believe crap most would not believe?
I know a lot of folks who believe this nonsense but they’re not even misinformed. It isn’t solely that what they “know” isn’t so. It’s that they know so little about practically anything.
But I have the sense that they “need” to be like this and suck up that which will fuel their viewpoints.
Of course, they are resistant to facts.
I have a relation who is doing well in a field of microscopic use–it’s in a tiny corner of the arts–to society as a whole. It’s been his whole life. And his arrogance and certainty he is qualified to dictate to everybody about everything is mountainous. He didn’t get like this by being misinformed.
I have the usual limited number of acquaintances and friends and relatives. I’m conservative, have been a soldier, been in sales, keep up my woodpile myself, work security at the church. Which is to say, I would tend to encounter a lower than average number of mush heads. Still, the number is appalling if my average is applied to the population as a whole.
I must say that, among his other accomplishments, Trump has provided an unparalleled opportunity for people to unleash their self-righteous, arrogant impulses. And, being supported by so many others plus the MSM and other cultural, even the most potentially rational are not encountering actual reality.
Tommy Jay, I lean towards the idea that about 45% immunity would shut this down. There seem to be lots of people with T-cell reactions in addition to those who’ve had the virus. If the highly vulnerable are vaccinated, those who are at lower risk can get the virus and we’d soon get to the 45%-50% level. If the vaccinations work in the nursing homes and assisted living centers, the death rate should fall dramatically.
J.J., on therapeutics; Yes!! They shouldn’t be waiting until people are sick enough to hit the hospital. Treated early, probably half or more of those high-risk cases would never get serious.
Richard Aubrey:
That doesn’t describe her.
I think she is just in an informational bubble.
Supposedly the Pfizer vac was developed without aborted fetal cells, which would be deal breaker for many pro life people. However, because of government heavy handedness and the way the virus has been used as a means of control, I think many people on the right who were previously open to taking vaccines are now reluctant, regardless of the vaccine being developed when Trump was still President.
Chuck:
The Nazis did not get a majority of the German people to vote for them. Even after using terror and violence, they still couldn’t get a majority, so they abolished all the other parties through terror and jailing and had no other candidates.
Then they got a majority.
Neo. That leaves open an epiphany, or possibility, anyway, of coming into actual information from outside the bubble in such a fashion that her armor is not useful.
Then what?
All that she has built on the bubble’s foundation (more meaning to that metaphor than I had intended) fails, and with it that portion of her self-image.
Can she, at this stage, afford to learn?
If not?
Yes, Neo. But then the Nazis didn’t dominate the newspapers, cinema, law, and educational establishments until after they came to power. Here those institutions went anti-Trump at least four years ago, we are further along the curve than the Germans of 1933. The Protocols of the Elder Trump was daily news for nearly four years, and perhaps another Russian invention at that. I suppose we should be happy that Biden is mostly corrupt and in decline rather than an evil genius. Which is not to say there aren’t some very smart people making propaganda for the Democrats.
I have never seen any research on changing German attitudes towards Jews during the Nazi period, so don’t know how effective the propaganda was. But I suspect Jews were less popular in 1945 than in 1933. The clothes stealing accusation that occurs towards the end of Maus would tend to support that view.
I hate to say it, Neo, but I must, and that is your old friend is not the moderate Dem you thought she was. Moderate Dems do not exist anymore. The election of Trump has created even more willful blindness.
From what I see on social media, a lot of people think the *real* reason for the vaccines is that Fauci and/or Gates are somehow going to make a lot of money on them. Both Leftists and Rightists have expressed such attitudes.
If Gates really wants to maximize the number of people taking the vaccine, then the best thing he can do is to *shut up* about it for a while.
Neo – if you want your cynicism to grow even more then read this about Swalwell and the how BOTH parties covered for him to join the HPSCI. Paul Ryan was truly subsumed by the uniparty/deep state.
https://meaninginhistory.blogspot.com/2020/12/why-not-ask-obvious-questions-about.html
A great book about what the Nazi’s did when they achieved power is the second book of Richard Evan’s Third Reich Trilogy “The Nazi’s in Power”. One very salient fact is that many Germans tacitly approved of the “get tough” actions of the Nazi’s. Not to far off from the “orange man bad” crowd.
What many people don’t know today is that mild anti-Semitism was a feature in Western Society up until 1946 when the horrors of the Shoah was exposed. You could be dismissive of Jews and their practices and bar them from many clubs and organizations. After WWII it was suppressed until Israel won the 1967 war. Now it is back in force. Some virus are very stubborn. But the host has changed to the progressive part of the body politic. Evangelical Christians are the most firm supporters of Judaism today. A strange state of affairs.
Here is an interesting factoid. The NAACP founding was driven by three white activists, two of them Jewish. You will find that Jews support a lot of oppressed groups because of their historical experience. Drop that fact on your anti-Semitist acquaintances especially black ones and see their mental facilities go “tilt”. Follow-up with the question if Jews lead the charge to form the NAACP does that make that organization illegitimate?
https://www.historyandheadlines.com/february-12-1909-naacp-founded-white-people/
I’m currently a volunteer subject in the Johnson and Johnson vaccine trial here in Detroit (pretty sure I got the placebo since I didn’t feel anything).
I’ll take the vaccine when the study is over. I don’t think that the government should mandate everyone getting vaccinated, but at that point where it is readily available to the general public I’m done with wearing the mask and going along with the lockdowns just to accommodate others too afraid to take the vaccine.
Oh whoa! An edifice of lies and loathing the media has force fed leftists, gavage style, produces such idiocy. Like neo’s conversation with her friend, I had a similar experience.
Talking with a leftist friend a month or so ago, I thought a topic about corona was perfectly safe to wonder and chat about. I opened with wondering why, with many people flying commercial again, why aren’t news media reporting whether these people are doing okay or whether a good percentage of them were contracting the virus. But on that topic the media just had crickets. …
So she enthusiastically agreed with me. She is a volatile woman.
Then she threw a severe curve ball. It’s because Trump doesn’t do anything about it!! she practically shouted.
I became confused, sort of like neo. Wait, it is on the commercial airlines, and CDC or WHO, and the rotting corpse that is the media. There is no onus on Trump to collect and distribute that information. Sheesh!
PS I read that the AMA has rescinded its prohibition on hydroxychloraquine for the virus. I clicked through to the AMA pdf to be sure of the info. Sickening! After the election! How many people suffered, and even died, because the AMA had a childish tantrum against the President? We are living in diseased times. Are links okay in these comments?
Link: https://lenbilen.com/2020/12/14/american-medical-association-rescinds-previous-statement-against-prescription-of-hydroxychloroquine-to-covid-19-patients/?fbclid=IwAR1zmETcvlj47MrHOOQyUeetWmX06vZnaeHdp1pZwzf4zRntBU1ecJMZ01E
To: I am Spartacus
Fantastic post over at Meaning In History. Thanks for the link.
From my doctor cousin’s hospital before he got the jab
Q: Maybe the vaccine isn’t safe because it was rushed through the FDA approval process?
A:While SARS Co-V-2 is a novel virus, coronaviruses in general aren’t new at all, and scientists have already done a lot of work to study them in years past. Prior to the current pandemic, a good understanding of these viruses, including the spike protein that the vaccines target, already existed, as did the mRNA technology that is the foundation of the vaccines.
Additionally, the Phase 3 clinical trials for these new vaccines were able to enroll participants very quickly, and also achieve statistical significance quickly because COVID-19 is so prevalent in this country.
Finally, Operation Warp Speed allowed companies to start producing vaccine even before they knew it would work. If the trials had failed, the companies would have had to throw away the vaccine, but that was a risk worth taking in the face of this global pandemic.
While this vaccine was developed faster than any other, it was done so with the same scientific rigor that is the hallmark of American vaccine trials.
Q:The vaccine could still harm me months or years down the line?
A:The FDA required two months of safety data on these vaccines because many years of data on other vaccines have reassured us that the vast majority of significant vaccine adverse events are seen within six weeks or so. It would be exceptionally unlikely that someone would develop an adverse reaction to the vaccine months or years after receiving it.
Q:The mRNA technology used in the vaccine is brand new.
A:Scientists have been working on mRNA technology for about three decades. Two scientists, Doctors Katalin Karikó and Drew Weissman, are generally credited with important advances in mRNA technology. Early attempts to inject RNA resulted in lots of inflammation in animals, but Doctors Karikó and Weissman discovered a process that used a modified RNA nucleoside to decrease the inflammation often caused by RNA when it was injected.
They started publishing this data in 2005, and filed a patent for it in 2010. Moderna, one of the companies making an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine, was actually founded and named by scientists who specifically wanted to study this technology (“Modified + RNA = Moderna”). mRNA technology has been studied in other vaccines, including rabies, influenza, Zika and CMV. So while this COVID-19
vaccine is the first mRNA vaccine to ever be licensed in humans, the technology actually isn’t all that new! This article gives an interesting history, and you can also read Dr. Weissman’s and Dr. Karikó publications online.
Q:The vaccine mRNA can alter my DNA.
A:It’s nearly impossible for scientists to inject anything into our bodies that will incorporate into the nucleus and subsequently into our DNA, so this is just not possible from a scientific standpoint.
Q: The vaccine was developed from aborted fetal cells.
A:None of the new COVID-19 vaccines contain cells from aborted fetuses. The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines have not used any cells from fetal lines to develop their vaccines. AstraZeneca used cell lines replicated from a fetus aborted in 1973 to develop the vaccine, but again the actual vaccine does not contain any of these cells. The Vatican’s Pontifical Academy for Life issued guidance on this topic
in 2005 and reaffirmed it in 2017.
Q:The COVID19 vaccine will make me infertile.
A: This myth is based on the information that a portion of the spike protein used in the COVID-19 vaccines has a miniscule amount of similar amino acid sequences to a protein found in the placenta (syncytin-1). However, the similarity is far too small for the body to ever confuse the two and attack the placenta. If the body did confuse the placenta with the spike protein, it’s likely we would have seen far worse outcomes in pregnant patients over the course of the pandemic (re
For the record, AesopSpouse works with patents in the medical field.
The primary (and I nearly said “sole”) reason that remedies take years or decades to make it to the market is foot-dragging by the FDA and other regulatory agencies.
The vaccine is as safe now as it would be after another 10 years of red tape, because 9 of them are spent waiting for the feds to check the box so you can move to the next step.
But be careful if you have allergic reactions to certain things, or an auto-immune disorder.
(stories can be found, but I won’t go back and look for the ones I saw today)
a huge and impregnable tower of falsehood that becomes an overwhelmingly obvious truth in the minds of otherwise well-meaning, loving, and intelligent people.
Another example of strange reversals of past situations. I suppose every kulak had his or her “good communist” just as every communist knew a “good kulak.” (I won’t mention the other contemporary socialism.) Like most opinions, it changed nothing.
“And I’m already looking forward to explaining that, no, Mayor Pete will not be the first openly gay person to hold a cabinet post in a US administration.” – MollyG
They are already patting Biden on the back for putting so many working women in his administration.
https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2020/12/16/dont-pretend-otherwise-mollie-hemingway-drops-the-mother-of-all-reality-checks-on-ny-times-wh-reporter-and-rest-of-msm/
“That leaves open an epiphany, or possibility, anyway, of coming into actual information from outside the bubble in such a fashion that her armor is not useful.” – Richard Aubrey
A lot of the political conversion stories I have read/watched, including Neo’s, seem to have this factor in play.
Determining what the armor is, and where the openings are, is not easily done by design, but sometimes it just happens.
Scott Adams, I think, works with something like this idea when he discusses the tactics of “persuasion” but his is a generic theory, not tailored to specific individuals, IIRC.
Not too long from now, some brown shirt will be asking “To see your papers!!”, which will be your vaccination record, without which you will be physically and socially isolated.
It’s (race, class, gender) socialist to want internal passports and to control the internal movement of subjects. A socialist government should control who may live in The City and who must live on the kolkhoz.
Now by COVID, socialists have the excuse they needed to demand papers from Americans.
Just another reminder that even facts that may seem obvious and undisputed have been twisted, covered up, and/or lied about in myriad ways that reach and convince a huge number of people
The goodness of divorce.
The freedom of promiscuity.
The liberty of abortion.
The efficacy of regulatory agencies.
Feminism.
….
Yeah, all those lies are something to behold all right. It’s called “our culture.”
“The other day I was talking to an old friend on the phone. This is a woman who – like most people I know – is a Democrat. I’ve known her for thirty years, but she’s never been a leftist or especially political at all. We almost never discuss politics. …
these perceptions of Trump’s wrongdoings and evil nature have been used to construct, bit by bit, a huge and impregnable tower of falsehood …”
Ethnic cleansing. Coming to neighborhoods near you.
I’m up early, haven’t visited this site for a long time, and this is the first article I read. Since I’m not familiar it may be a joke.
It’s a fake global pandemic and always has been. 99.8% recovery rate, highly dubious testing, mask wearing is insufficient and even unhealthy. Anything else is propaganda. I admit the propaganda is excellent and extreme.
Many obviously cannot face what this actually means.
One thing it means is don’t take the vaccine. For instance, if your dr. Thinks there is a pandemic they are not very bright or liars. Why trust a liar? Our dr. Knows there is no pandemic thank goodness.
Also reading the comments it cements in my mind there is no more left/right, republican/Democrat. It seems there are only compliant/noncompliant, programmed/unprogrammed.
I’m not trying to be a meanie (I usually don’t qualify myself like this, as the ‘requirement’ is programming also) but just keep repeating… 99.8% recovery rate, there is no pandemic…
I now see our experience with COVID-19 as a blessing. My husband didn’t almost die of COVID-19, he almost died because he was returned home from the hospital because of the fear of the virus. After 3 days with a fever and dry cough, I struggled with it following 20 minutes of wearing an N95 mask causing a relapse and then the worst of it before full recovery. After my husband’s full recovery we have functioned normally as a family, not missing any occasions–birthdays and holidays. We do not wear masks around each other, in fact we all wear the most minimal of masks required when we must–in order to go to a store, bank or nail shop. None of us have gotten so much as a cold. I’m in regular communication with a priest who is a Chaplain in a Covid unit in a Washington hospital since last March. He tests every week and hasn’t gotten it. Last May he told us people were dying because they weren’t receiving the proper drugs, i.e. the hydroxychloroquine cocktail. Last weekend I flew to DC with my youngest son for, in his case, the Stop the Steal rally, and in my case the Let the Church Roar prayer rally. We walked the city together, in deep conversation and prayer about all that is transpiring. An excellent trip. I stopped attending Mass back in October because we were required to have our temperature taken, wear a mask and sit in a chair on the asphalt parking lot 6 feet from other parishioners. I find this protocol foolish and unhealthy. We didn’t have our temperature taken to board the 4 flights last weekend. We sat in normal formation, masks required when you weren’t eating or drinking. In my experience, the mask wearing has had a terrible effect on society already. I’ve flown a lot and this is the first time I’ve ever sat next to someone and had no eye-contact nor conversation whatsoever, not even, “Hi”. Bazaar. I learned some important things about vaccines by listening to the “debate” between Robert Kennedy Jr. and Alan Dershowitz. According to Kennedy, when a vaccine is tested, only perfectly healthy individuals are included in the trials, no comorbitities. I am interested in knowing more about the PCR testing that is recording the surge in the number of cases. The COVID testing area near my bank that for months looked like a ghost town now has cars lined up with people waiting for their tests. Recently, my nephew was exposed and he and his wife and 2 children then tested positive. But while there was hand-wringing among them, the reported effects were less than anything you would have ever heard about under normal circumstances. He got a flu shot 2 weeks prior and with what I’m reading about the testing I even wonder if SARS Co-V2 was even implicated in his positive. What about Elon Musk’s 4 tests in 1 day, 2 positive, 2 negative? In the meantime, Tuesday through Friday I have a window of observation of the growing homeless population whose health doesn’t seem jeopardized by this present scourge. I believe people are vested in what the media has put forth. What climate-change was intended to do, the “pandemic response” has done in spades. In my opinion, it is a pandemic of fear and stupidity, and has been very effective in the aims of the leftist cabal.
Well, Guest, it’s a 99.8% recovery rate overall, but lower for old, sick people. I agree that there’s no epidemic in people under 50 or so. Those of us considering the vaccination are in the older cohort.
The masks, shutdowns, and overnight curfews are an exercise in control.
Kate you may want to double-check, but in a cursory view, it looks like older people were not included in the vaccine tests.
Sharon W, yes, I think you are correct. Fortunately for me and my husband, we are not in the “very sick” category, so if/when we get the shots, there will be data on how it affects older people.
It’s a risk, for sure. We’ll see how it works out.
My sister-in-law in Northridge, about 60, is getting the shot today. I’ll hear later about any side effects.
My Primary Care Physician sees me at least twice a year. I have a number of ‘medical conditions’ that are under control taking generic meds.
Working with my PCP and a Genetic Counselor we have been able to determine a proximate cause. Thankfully NOT shared by others in my family. My brothers and sisters get normal age related stuff. Children, Grandchildren, Nieces and Nephews all have normal illnesses.
I will take the vaccine when it is deemed appropriate to do so by my PCP. As I have done for all other vaccines.
AesopFan – I just couldn’t help myself, but when you said –
“They are already patting Biden on the back for putting so many working women in his administration.”
– I immediately thought of Commie Harris and her history with Willie Brown and getting into politics. My apologies to Mollie Hemingway also.
Whenever I ask my Liberal friends what they would have Trump do, they never give me a straight answer but talk in the vaguest generalities. One actually said he should have given advice to us and comfort to those afflicted. I replied to him “Would you have taken or ridiculed any advice he offered”? I got no answer.
To some people everything is political. You can bring up the subject of “bottlecaps” and they will turn it into a Trump bash.
The sooner average people are protected, the less transmission there will be and the earlier we can all get back to life as normal — if we are allowed to do so.
Except that (1) average people do not obviously have more risk from the virus than from the vaccine; and (2) since we will still be locked down even if everyone takes the vaccine, what’s the point of getting vaccinated?
As to Neo’s question about who is saying the lockdowns will continue, Fauci among others, is saying another year, even assuming people line up to get the vaccine.
And on the moving goalposts: The amount of virus risk that we can tolerate is always just a bit less than whatever the current risk level is.
Sorry, that should have been “we will still be locked down [for another year] even if everyone takes the vaccine [on the current timetable].” I will add to that that even if people don’t cooperate, and fail to take the vaccine as they are told to, the virus will probably die out in another year anyway. So that provides even less incentive to take it.
If our power-mad governors were to say something like, “as soon as 30% of the population is vaccinated you can take off your masks and go back to work and play as normal,” that would make the vaccine a bit more attractive, though there’s still a free rider problem. But say “Take the vaccine, and keep your mask on and have no fun for another year” is not a winning marketing ploy.
To address a question raised somewhere above, Catholic bishops in Colorado have advised the faithful that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are morally acceptable alternatives, but the AstraZeneca-Oxford vaccine is not.
https://denvercatholic.org/a-letter-to-the-faithful-from-the-colorado-bishops-on-covid-19-vaccines/
My sister, brother in law and his mother caught COVID two weeks ago. It was mild with my sister and severe with the brother in law and his mother. He had to be hospitalized but recovered quickly after he got Remdesiver. Unfortunately his mother passed away from COVID yesterday. She was on a respirator for about a week and showed no signs of improvement. They took her off of it and she passed three hours later. She had no co-morbidities. She was in her seventies and very vivacious. The world is a sadder place now.
The brother in law is very anti-Trump and he blames Trump for not setting direction from the top at the beginning of this crisis. In other words he thought a COVID Czar should have been named to run everything. Our discussions about this while civil on this COVID response never got past this point. Now he is very bitter and no matter what he says in grief I will not counter. Life is too important.
One thing I haven’t seen covered but both of them are 100% Italian ancestry. I remember that Italy was clobbered very hard in the Spring. Has there been any statistical studies showing any link to being Italian or other nationality and the degree of risk of contracting COVID and its severity?
The video Chris of Rights @3:47pm linked to is very informative.
Double bonus because they showed a chart on procedures to protect against COVID19 and cloth face masks were #8 on the list. “Wear a cloth face covering if you can’t maintain a 1 meter distance”.
I see no reason to not get the vaccine– with the caveat he talks about in the video.
I am Spartacus, condolences to your sister and her family on their loss.
I have seen some articles about certain genes being identified as more frequent among those getting more severe COVID cases. This could mean some ancestral groups being more susceptible. The research is very preliminary, however.
I am Sparticus:
Sorry to hear of your BIL’s mother passing from COVID19 (the China virus).
The truth means nothing to the left but this article documents the President’s triumph.
And remember, you can’t spell “Triumph” without “Trump.” ? h/t instapundit.
Throughout 2020, vaccine producers and their suppliers constructed new factories and otherwise increased their capacity while governments, international agencies, and philanthropies signed billion-dollar contracts, preordering doses by the hundreds of millions. In the United States, the federal initiative known as Operation Warp Speed deployed a budget of more than US $12 billion to develop, test, and mass-produce new vaccines along with the vials, syringes, and other materials needed to deliver them to an anxious populace.
This Is How We’ll Vaccinate the World Against COVID-19 – IEEE Spectrum
https://spectrum.ieee.org/biomedical/devices/this-is-how-well-vaccinate-the-world-against-covid19
With reference to the vivacious Italian-American grandmother’s death, why aren’t people over 65 or 70 being given the Regeneron or Eli Lilly antibody cocktail as soon as they are confirmed COVID patients? I don’t hear about these treatments being in wide use. They should be. But lots of things which “should be” given, aren’t.
Sparticus, I’m really sorry about that. 🙁
I am Spartacus:
Sorry to hear about your family’s loss. My condolences.
Apparently, however, your sister’s husband is unaware that Trump appointed the Coronavirus Task Force in late January of 2020? That’s very early. Here’s a press briefing at the time.
The “Trump did nothing” narrative rests on ignorance of what he actually did and when he did it. I have encountered many friends like that.
BrooklynBoy…”One actually said he (Trump) should have given advice to us and comfort to those afflicted.” At the root of many of our problems is a tendency to treat personal relationships (families, especially) as formal, rule-mediated relationships, while treating formal, public relationships (government) as extended families in which we should get emotional as well as financial support.
The sociological terms Gemeinschaft and Gesellschaft are relevant.
Sorry about the loss of your sister’s mother-in-law, I am Spartacus. Such a mysterious and uncaring virus. Why does it affect some so horribly and not others? It seems our ponderous medical bureaucracy will be years before they care to try to understand it.
“In other words he thought a COVID Czar should have been named to run everything.”
There was and is a COVID Czar – his name is Mike Pence. I watched the daily briefs that Trump, Pence, Fauci, Birx, and others gave from March until they ceased sometime in the summer. (I have had a lot of time on my hands 🙂 ) IMO, the team did a pretty good job and they respected the governors’ requests and decisions, even though most of the Democrat governors were trying to play political games. The Democrats wanted a national plan. It was obvious from the data coming from different states that a one size fits all plan was not going to work. In fact, it would be silly to do such a thing. As the pandemic has worked its way through the states, ebbing and surging, no one has been able to nail down the best practices as it seems that the virus does its thing, lockdowns or not. I would appreciate the health gurus and MSM talking heads just admitting that there is a LOT we don’t know.
My opinion is that if you’re high risk and can afford to stay home as much as possible, do it. If you’re low risk, take precautions as you see fit and live your life.
I’m glad they have developed a vaccine in record time, but why didn’t the medical bureaucracy put as much effort and money into developing therapeutics? The odds were much greater of finding successful therapeutics than they were of developing a vaccine this quickly. I could blame Trump because he threw his weight behind Operation Warp Speed, but I also know that he was pushing for therapeutics like HCQ. But the medical bureaucracy teamed up with the MSM to put a stop to it. Then when monoclonal anti-bodies worked for Trump, it was as if nothing had happened. Nothing to see here. Move along. I’m angry, but not at Trump. I think the medical bureaucracy (CDC, FDA, state/county health directors, major hospitals/clinics.) has failed us. So few doctors are now in private practice, it is beginning to remind me of military medicine – rigid, impersonal, rationed, and risk averse.
Thanks to all for your kind words and condolences. It is very much appreciated.
Regarding my B-I-L “Czar” thing I did point out the task force but his stance is unreasonable because the Policy Board wasn’t making pronouncements and edicts from above and telling people to do this and that but instead make recommendations. (I told what it is like to be in Michigan under edicts but he isn’t receptive to that). In other words he saw states doing their own thing and believes that it caused the China virus to stay around longer. It is a matter of “my mind is made up and don’t bother me with the facts!” stance. He teaches government and economics at the High School honors level so he understands Federalism but he thinks that this virus over rode that principle.
Over time his perspective will change as more and more data is published by the media he trusts. But this Orange Man Bad crescendo will have to subside a bit.
For anyone interested, my 60-ish sister-in-law got the Pfizer vaccine today. She reports a slight headache and sore arm, no major reaction at all.
Spartacus, condolences on your family’s tragedy. The passing of even an elderly person with no co-morbidities is indeed rare, if I understand the data.
Your BiL’s reaction is, sadly, no longer one that surprises any of us. However, it was rather depressing to read that “He teaches government and economics at the High School honors level so he understands Federalism but he thinks that this virus over rode that principle.”
We have had a terrible failure in both secular education (“just the facts, ma’am”) and the transmission of moral principles in the last century or so.
I don’t know if that can be remedied soon enough to save the country.
I have some hopes that the forced home-schooling of conservatives will help the new generation avoid the leftist brainwashing from their teachers, and that more liberal/independents will see the handwriting on the computer screen.
Spartacus. Your family has suffered a tragedy. And the wound is reopened every time words like “Covid” or “virus” are heard.
Your BiL’s response reminded me of something my father said. When he and his brothers got back from WW II, they went to pay their respects to the family of a friend killed late in the Pacific War
The mother said, “If we’d had the atomic bomb sooner, Arthur would be with us today.” This is almost certainly, literally true.
But she was convinced the Jews delayed the bomb.
I’ve notified next of kin and done Survivor Assistance Officer. I would cut the bereaved any amount of slack and that includes your BiL. The poor woman was distraught and beyond rational thought. And didn’t need to be corrected, either.
In your BiL’s case, he is reinforced in what he believed beforehand. There is no percentage in discussing the situation with him. There was none earlier and less now and it is a wound he doesn’t need probed.
There are plenty of others who believe as he does and can use, maybe, some rational discussion.
I don’t know if I’m right. Back in the Sixties when I was in college, I noted an attitude among the political left’s dreamy foot soldiers. Authority had only to order something–whatever the kid dreamers thought was righteous–and it would appear. Justice, peace, prosperity. And since those did not appear in the appropriate time–instantly–Authority was evil and refusing to make all things right. That some things just happen and structures vs. chaos and people with different opinions also existed, not to mention had an influence on Authority did not occur to them.
I wondered if it was some kind of father issue.
Condolences, Spartacus.
Originally from which part of Italy?
Somewhat counterintuitively there are a lot of old people originally from the Mezzogiorno living in Northern Italy where they migrated to to escape poverty and work in factories back in the day.
People who have evolved to live closer to the Equator run a greater risk of Vitamin D deficiency when they move to more northern climes.
Woo Hoo … I and my wife was able to get on list for covid 19 vaccine today. We are both 70+ with health issues. We were given a time line of maybe 2 weeks to get our vaccine shots. It’s being administered by our local Brookshire Brothers pharmacy.