North Korean defector surprised to find out that Americans are really nice
Propaganda is difficult to shake, but personal observation and experience can go a long way:
A North Korean defector earlier this month revealed that he was “shocked” at the level of kindness and racial diversity he experienced when he first visited the United States.
The video is worth watching:
In the past, I’ve watched other videos done by foreigners talking about their experiences with Americans or in visiting America. When asked to list characteristics of Americans, almost all of them say that Americans are friendly and smile a lot, and that they can be distinguished from others by their confident way of walking.
I have a relation who’s traveled widely but not as a tourist. Student, that sort of thing. He says he can , and he says others he knows in other countries can discern an “american stride” in seconds.
Still.. A friend of ours had his eightieth birthday last year and his family joined him in our little town. That part of his family from the mid south were fine. So was the part from New York. But the latter kept remarking how nice everybody was.
Everyone interested in N Korea should read the fascinating book by the still young Park Yeonmi, entitled In Order to Live: A North Korean Girl’s Journey to Freedom and published a few years ago. Following a truly harrowing escape from her homeland, and several years studying in S Korea, she is now settled in the U.S. and married to an American, while lecturing widely about human rights.
Anyone who makes it out of North Korea is my hero.
Boy, this kid is articulate!
On a lighter note:
–“North Koreans Try American BBQ”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0TYCEXmi90
They also talk about life in North Korea and how rare meat is for ordinary citizens. Dogs are raised for their meat and the fur must be returned to the state to line winter coats for the military.
I was glad to see Rudy’s BBQ sauce in the line-up. Rudy’s motto:
I didn’t claw my way to the top of the food chain to eat vegetables!
Have had many interactions with people in Asia who have told me similar things.
It is difficult for Americans to fully understand at the visceral level — intellectual comprehension is trivial — just how terribly warped the world’s view of them is by news media, legacy television, streaming, Hollywood. Leave the Treason of the Intellectuals / Op-Ed Faux Intellectuals to another day; the common fare is already warped bilge.
This does not just apply to the US, mind you. As a naive young fellow, I was quite amazed to read columns in the South China Morning Post penned by journalists back home in my country of citizenship excoriating the natives of same for their troglodytic racism. Needless to say that’s not quite how I recall them then or know them now. Hell, I’m the Troglodytic Racist, and I object to sleepwalking milquetoast live-and-let-live types being misappropriated to smear my good name by association!
So… the cognitive dissonance, when your ordinary individual from abroad hits vast swathes of the US tends to be on the high side. Note, I said ordinary individual; upper middle classes and intelligentsia from everywhere else have too many insecurities, neuroses, and narcissistic defenses and will never see the light.
Escaped North Koreans truly are the innocents abroad. Imagine having totally missed out on the Frankfurt School and its foul issue and only having to divest oneself of some brutish and clownish Kim-Worship appurtenances jammed up the behind of one’s natural Confucianist cultural heritage. Far easier for him to throw off the blinkers than just about anyone else on this planet.
I have a relation who’s traveled widely but not as a tourist. Student, that sort of thing. He says he can , and he says others he knows in other countries can discern an “american stride” in seconds.
In most of Latin America, my European features readily identify me as a Gringo. In Argentina, where most came from Europe, my facial features didn’t stand out. But I was still readily identified as a (North) American. It may have been an “American stride,” but I believe it was my clothing- more casual than the average Argentine. T-shirts or Hawaiian shirts versus blue or white dress shirts. Jeans versus blue or black dress pants. One feature of being readily identified as American was that on occasion total strangers would come up to me to denounce the military regime.
One factor in my changing from a progressive of the left to an evil right winger was that while the progressive line in the US was that Americans were resented in Latin America for the imperialist things we supposedly did, in Latin America my nationality was a decided advantage in opening doors. Speaking the language helped.
One unpleasant thing which needs to be mentioned here, is that close to 100% of North Korean defectors consciously threw their extended families into the wood chipper by defecting.
The substrate of the North Korean Kim Cult is still Confucianism (strictly speaking the Korean hyper extreme version — Koreans and Vietnamese being people of the margins are *far* more Confucian than the Chinese — cf. the Baltic and Sudeten Germans during the Late Unpleasantness).
Now the curious thing about Confucianism is that it takes a dim view of chucking all living members of your family into the wood chipper… and by ‘family’ I don’t mean the shriveled Western Nuclear (blown to shit? Hehe) Family; what we talking here is Uncles, Aunts, Cousins, Grandparents, toddlers, the lot. Out here, traditional notions of Collective Punishment make Sulla look like lunch time detention.
So… (1) Imagine what stresses it must take for an individual to go through with a defection, and (2) Don’t ever fully trust one either. They knew what they were doing. It’s not for us to judge people who have lived under such unimaginable conditions, but I doubt that many of the good readers of this blog would have hired an ex-Kapo back when.
Also don’t have to be J J Angleton for the wheels to start whirring on Point 2 above.
@Gringo
You can spot differences between a single Mainland Chinese, Korean, Japanese from 50m away so long as they are not paralyzed, impaled, or otherwise immobilized. Body language, demeanor, gait are an encyclopedia. If they weren’t you and I wouldn’t have made it this far up the Evolutionary Everest; all the people who didn’t pick up on clues ended up like that Stone Age guy they found under a glacier in the Italian Alps with arrow holes in him.
(Come to think of it, a Mainland Chinese would contrive to be corrupt and vulgar whilst impaled, a Korean would be angrily impaled, and a Japanese stoically or pervertedly so :P).
Once you add in *dress* and observed group interactions + the exponential increase in observable mannerisms this gives rise to, it becomes so trivial that only the terminally stupid or the willfully ideologically blind cannot make immediate and accurate snap judgements on who/what they are seeing.
Of course this assumes a learning period and some interest in one’s surroundings, but doesn’t take much at all; as you clearly know.
The thing is that anyone reading contemporary media and living under a rock won’t know any of this since one of the tenets of the current ‘religion’ of the West is that despite Diversity being Deified, it’s impossible to know anything about anyone unless they tell us and in any case Noticing is a Crime.
Gringo. My relation’s travels have been in western Europe and Russia. As to being spotted as American, I suspect you’re right about clothing. My wife and I–she was a Spanish teacher–took some of her students to Spain in 73, 97 and 99. I knew our kids, but other groups, or the chaperones of the other American groups always looked different from the locals even when I didn’t know them. And that was usually during spring break which usually coincided with Easter Week and you never knew who you’d see touring the usual places.
I’ve thought about it more recently, following the Thalys Train rescue in 2015. Four random Americans took down a terrorist with an automatic weapon, cleared the train, wrapped the guy up for the cops, and rendered serious first aid to the only one badly wounded, an American. Then showed up for the medal ceremony in Polos and Dockers. Robin Givhan, WaPol style writer, opined those were fine, perfectly appropriate. Since Polos and Dockers are what young guys wear when they know they’re supposed to get dressed up but they don’t know what the fuss is.
An actor, guy named Anglade, was a passenger and was interviewed. He was grateful and then he said something like it’s a tragedy not to be born an American, how you think, how you act. This may be overstating the case, but it was four random Americans who took down the guy with the automatic weapon, three hundred rounds, and a meat-filled kill sack for his terror pleasure.
So, perhaps, there is something to American self-presentation…besides the stereotypes…that is noticeable.
I should say, though, that the 73 trip differed from the later two. Having suffered, presumably, from poor pre-and-post natal nutrition during the war(s), most of the young guys trying to get our girls’ attention were pretty short and frail. Twenty-five years later, that wasn’t the case. The difference was obvious.
One unpleasant thing which needs to be mentioned here, is that close to 100% of North Korean defectors consciously threw their extended families into the wood chipper by defecting.
Zaphod: I’d be curious to see some documentation on that. I am aware that defectors from communist countries don’t do their families any favors, but can find no references to wood chippers.
What I do find is that NK defector’s family and friends are in for rough treatment — interrogation, torture, increased surveillance, even imprisonment but not quite so dire as 100% of them into wood chippers.
Apparently since 2013 Kim Jong-un has been trying a honey, rather than vinegar, approach:
_______________________________________________
North Korean leader Kim Jong-un is taking a new approach to defectors who have fled his impoverished and repressive state, promising they will not be harmed if they come home, and even offering cash rewards, according to some in the exile community.
https://www.businessinsider.com/kim-jong-un-defectors-return-2013-8
I first took the defector’s dilemma to heart when one of my favorite chess players, Viktor Korchnoi, defected from the USSR. It could be said that Korchnoi was the Donald Trump of grandmaster chess. Korchnoi was a ferocious competitor (into his elder years), spoke his mind, and got into trouble with authorities.
He decided he had to defect in 1976, leaving behind a wife and son. However, he was eventually able to obtain their freedom.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/07/world/europe/viktor-korchnoi-chess-giant-who-drew-soviet-ire-dies-at-85.html
Was vacationing in Spain a few years back and was approached while on a walk by a 20ish-something Spaniard selling local tourist attraction tickets.
I asked her if she could tell we were Yanks (before we had said anything to her) and she said yes, she could. She also said she found Americans very friendly and polite and generally “looking” relaxed (whatever that means).
In my contact with Germans citizens working here in the USA (within the last 10 years or so), they ALL said that Yanks are friendly but that friendliness is superficial. What I found interesting is that comment from Germans seems to be a common view amongst Germans (at least the ones I have met).
Speaking of brainwashing; went to West Berlin in the summer of 1977 and stayed with some university students there. They insisted and were adamant that the Berlin Wall was built to keep US and W.German spies from sneaking into East Germany.
I thought he was joking; he was not.
Mind you, when he told me this, we were standing at the wall within sight of the East German guard towers and that within the previous 5 years about 15 East Germans were shot dead trying to escape.
This fact meant nothing to him; it was meaningless.
And it shows, once again, the power of constant propaganda to render its victims delusional.
Those individuals that I have met that used to live in the Baltic Nations (when under the heel of the USSR), Ukraine (when part of the USSR) or communist Hungary , and that now live in the USA, have no illusions about socialism / communism. They all were politically conservative.
Ditto with some Cubans I know, – the older ones; but some of those born here in the USA have become infected with the liberal progressive virus.
As for the N.Korean in the video, just give him a few weeks in a US university and he will become a zealous member of ANTIFA.
John Tyler. As regards “friendly”. I worked with exchange students (AFS) for over twenty years. Some of them said the same thing.
In fact, they mistook casual interest as actual friendship. My wife, studying in Spain, found that people walking their dogs whose dogs are sniffing around each other, won’t even make eye contact. In that milieu, a smiling conversation of a couple of minutes about dogs-can’t live with’em….etc. might be taken for some kind of weird pretense at friendship in circumstances where it is not at all appropriate.
There’s a comment that, if you’re in Lowe’s and somebody spends ten minutes helping you find something, and he doesn’t work there, you’re probably in Texas.
Couple of years ago, we were selling a boat. Guy came up with his trailer about dinner time, we hoisted the thing up and I offered him a seat. Said we had plenty. He didn’t have time. But neither of us took it as weird. It’s what you do.
If there’s someplace where you don’t, their loss.
But, hell, it’s an opportunity to actually make a friend, so why not?
Gringo, John, Richard,
I’ve noticed much of the same in my travels.
In the Netherlands, in the mid 90’s, for example, I was told Americans could easily be spotted by posture and dress: the anecdote above about polos and khakis at the medal ceremony is hilariously spot on and typically why foreigners, especially Europeans, have such mixed feelings about us.
Regarding American superficiality, my wife is from Germany and when you get to know them, they’re quite talkative, and shockingly opinionated. But until then, they just aren’t. Americans are big on small talk: Weather, sports, politics, etc. Germans just don’t do that unless you’re close friends or family. And sometimes, not even then…So, of course, they mistake that polite smalltalk/conversation as ham-handed and superficial attempt at friendship. It’s not but that is how it seems.
Another aspect that puts Europeans off is the American tendency, once conversation is initiated, to ask about someone’s job or profession:
“Hi, Hans! I’m Bob and I’m an electrician from Duluth! What do you do for a living?”
This is very, very off-putting to Europeans. They will likely still be very polite but internally, they’ve just made a rather harsh judgment.
Another aspect that puts Europeans off is the American tendency, once conversation is initiated, to ask about someone’s job or profession:
So, let’s see. Can’t talk about weather, sports, politics, or work. Are you trying to persuade us that they’re borderline and complain about everything or that they’re just lousy company?
From my interactions with Europeans and those who have lived in Europe, I get the impression that Europeans and Americans-North, Central and South- have different reactions to strangers.
As a tourist in the ’70s I spent several weeks in Colombia and Ecuador with a French woman and her son. She told me that some compatriots of hers had vacationed in the US, hitching around- as was often done in the ’70s. She told me that those who had picked up her hitching compatriots had often invited them to spend the night at their homes. That had also been my experience hitching long-distance in the US during that time. She told me that there was something SICK about Americans, that they would be so open to a stranger to invite them into their home. I saw no point in making a reply.
Upon relating this to someone, I got the reply that the French didn’t have good experiences with German strangers in the 1940s. 🙂
I worked in Latin America with a German expatriate and a Peruvian who was the son of Italian immigrants. The German had spent his childhood in Peru, where his father worked as a mining engineer. He went to Germany for university. The Peruvian worked in Germany as an engineer for Volkswagen. Both told me that Germans wouldn’t have anything to do with them, as their families hadn’t lived in Germany for hundreds of years.
I would add that openness to strangers was also my experience in Latin America, which is why I added “Central and South” to my comment on Americans.
Speaking of Germans in Latin America, I heard an interesting story in Guatemala. I assume it is true, but understand why some might be skeptical. Back in the day, a number of Germans owned coffee plantations around Cobán. You can still find German surnames and blond-haired speakers of Kekchí, a Mayan language, in the area. During WW2, the Guatemalan government deported those Germans who had not become Guatemalan citizens. I met around Cobán a guy who told me that his German grandfather had been deported back to Germany. He told me that his grandfather was also Jewish. His grandfather was able to hide his Jewish identity during his WW2 stay in Germany, and returned to Guatemala when the war was over.
Yes, Americans are different from most other cultures.
We are more casual, both in dress and conversation. We walk more confidently and are not as class/race conscious.
At an inn we stayed at in the Dolomites in Italy, their customers were mostly Germans and Austrians. The owner, a middle aged woman, told us it had been years since they had had American guests. When we walked into the dining room each evening (This was a full board inn.), I noticed that the place would go silent and was aware of being closely observed as we took our seats at our table. The other guests were more formally dressed (we had no jackets or dresses, as we were living out of our back packs for four weeks) and were relatively formal in the way they ate and spoke.
My wife and I realized that we were oddities in the place and wondered what the other guests thought about us. We got a small idea one night when the owner sat with us having wine before dinner. She told us she was very pleased to have had American guests. She opined that we added some spice (or diversity or casualness) to their mix of guests and it gave her a chance to practice her English, which was rusty. We learned from her that she wanted to sell the inn, but the law in that province of Italy was quite strict about keeping real property in families. Normally the male heirs took over and operated the property, passing it down through the generations. But her parents had no male children, so she was the heir and stuck with doing something she didn’t really care for. She dreamed of selling out and moving to Milan, where she hoped to get into the fashion industry. That was an interesting insight into how laws can be quite different in other countries, even in Western Europe.
I read the book, “See You Next Year In Pyongyang.”
A story written by an American student, Travis Jeppesen, who managed to get permission to study in North Korea for a year. His view of North Korea was limited as he had “minders’ with him whenever he went off campus. He observed that the anti-American propaganda was pervasive and that everyone he met was guarded about their speech and actions. A person’s speech and demeanor were very much related to where that person stood on the totem pole of influence with the regime. A very stratified society, with a few “big diamond” infrastructure projects attempting to cover up the truth of the general poverty of the nation. Even in his limited view, the country was a cold, soulless place. It’s easy to see why someone would want to defect. The threats to one’s family are, no doubt, what keep many more from leaving.
Light a candle for dear Otto Warmbier, the American student who visited North Korea on a tour, was arrested on a trumped-up charge IMO for stealing a banner, then sentenced to 15 years of hard labor, only to be returned to the US brain-damaged, comatose and never to return to consciousness again.
With a $2 million “medical bill” from the North Koreans. Needless to say, the Obama administration was useless in getting Warmbier back.
Goddamn the North Korean government.
https://www.inverse.com/article/33150-why-was-otto-warmbier-in-north-korea-how-his-tragic-story-began
Huxley, your right, you cant harvest organs from a wood chipper…
There seems to be a concerted effort to push a struggle session style anti American narrative in my town. This week they’re taking the angle that the world views America as evil and ridiculous. Last week, that everyone in town are irredeemable racists who must repent…or else? The week before, someone in town has a Trump sign, cancel all their relatives businesses! Insert random cries to defund the police.
Anyway, staying quiet may not be the best tactic anymore. So, despite my inclination to keep my head down, I shared this video on one of my local community Facebook groups. It seemed like it was cheerful, safe, non controversial and not in your face pro American.
Nope. Haha. The video was disparaged as untrue, because of the “source,” “anyone can put anything on YouTube” and I was insulted as a naive instigator, etcetera.
Now, alas, I am out of the closet as a non-moonbat and have learned that Leftists can even be against escaping from North Korea if the defector says nice things about America.
Esther. heard various variations on that, but not with regard to this video.
America must never be seen to do anything good or noble.
One of the issues is who does the good and the noble. See youtube on “harvey rescue”. Not our kind, dear.
Huxley, your right, you cant harvest organs from a wood chipper…
ArtflDgr: Too true!
Way back in 1972 a friend and I, just out of college, while walking in London were accosted from behind by a local guy and gal. They asked if they could tag along with us because they wanted to talk with Americans their age. We asked them how they knew we were American since my friend an I had been silent for a while before that couple had approached us. “Easy,” said the London guy, “we could tell you are American by the way you walk. Americans walk like you own the world.”
“hey insisted and were adamant that the Berlin Wall was built to keep US and W.German spies from sneaking into East Germany.
I thought he was joking; he was not.” – John Tyler
Saw this today –
https://www.redstate.com/nick-arama/2020/07/31/monument-vandalized-in-california-explains-a-lot-about-the-chaos-radical-leftists-are-trying-to-spread-now/
Ira:
For about 40 years, we did.