Perceptions actually changing in the Zimmerman-Martin case
Some of the new evidence about the Zimmerman-Martin confrontation actually appears to be penetrating the public awareness, according to the results of this poll:
A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 24% of American Adults still believe the man who shot Martin should be found guilty of murder. But that’s down from 33% in late March when the case first began to draw national headlines and 30% in early April.
Forty percent (40%) now think George Zimmerman, who has been charged with second degree murder in the Martin shooting, acted in self-defense. That’s up 25 points from 15% in March and up 16 points from 24% last month. Thirty-six percent (36%) remain undecided, compared to 55% two months ago.
I’m not a Rasmussen subscriber, so I can’t log in and read the full report. But in this post at Althouse, she writes:
47% [of black people surveyed] say murder, but the number is going down. 55% said murder in March. And 40% of black adults now say self-defense ”” exactly the same as percentage for adults Americans generally. Note that this means that black people are much less likely to be undecided or uncertain.
It’s interesting to speculate why such a relatively high percentage of black respondents seem to be rejecting the original MSM line. Is it because they never bought the “Zimmerman is a hateful white guy” narrative? Is it because they are disproportionately the victims of black crime, and see Martin not as an innocent kid but as a young man up to no good? Is it because they are quite familiar with the need for self-defense? Is it because the new evidence is so compelling, and they are following the case closely?
If I had access to the full report some of this might become clearer, as you can see if you look at the wording of the questions Rasmussen asked. If anyone’s a subscriber there, you might be able to shed some light on the matter.
As for me, my attitude remains that only the trial will tell us what we need to know to come to an informed conclusion about Zimmerman’s culpability. I’m leaning slightly towards “not guilty, self-defense” at this point, but my level of uncertainty is high.
This whole affair is an attack on the right of an American to defend himself. They want British laws on the subject. The people who set the media attack up were looking for a case to embrace. And I think they chose this case the second they saw the name ZIMMERMAN, before they knew Mr. Zimmerman had Latino and black ancestry.
I highly doubt if this will get anywhere near a trial. If it gets close, with just the information I have seen, we will have one less leftist prosecutor to deal with. Just like in the Duke case, where the prosecutor ended up disbarred and, I think, did time. Of course, with what exists for a national justice department, that might have to wait until after Zimmerman is cleared and we have a lawful attorney general in office. I know if I were the prosecutor, especially one with an already shaky leftard reputation, I’d be… thinking on that really long and hard.
I’m not sure what baffles you. I think you still have a ways to go in leaving your previous fold. Though, without being snooty or meaning to be offensive, justice is something I have rarely seen women good with. The problem with letting the courts decide, or expose, is the same problem with having laws become the basis of morality. Neither is good at the proposition, nor was either ever meant to be the baseline.
Doom – Female, here. When one is shepherding a room full of kids, judgement is crucial.
Back to topic: How can anyone with two brain cells be baffled? They have an eyewitness, who heard Zimmerman’s screams, saw Trayvon standing over Zimmerman, pummelling him “MMA (Mixed Martial Arts,”)-style, dialed “911”, and called out to the men that he was dialing 911, when he heard the shot, and saw Trayvon fall.
We never hear that on the news, because this administration is pushing the media to advance the racist meme, to try to get stricter handgun laws.
There. That wasn’t so hard.
Mursky: how can anyone be baffled? Simple.
They have other witnesses who say otherwise.
They also have a pile of physical evidence, most of which we probably haven’t heard much (if anything) about.
One of the questions that remains almost entirely cloudy is whether Zimmerman got out of his car to pursue Martin, and what that pursuit and first encounter consisted of. In other words, who jumped whom, and why?
Kids don’t usually kill each other, and I highly doubt you would deal with it properly, or possibly even could deal with it properly.
As I posted at the apparently dead Dershowitz thread below:
You got to admit that the MSM has done its best to demonize “white Hispanic” George Zimmerman, and to make Trayvon Martin of the “Skittles and sweet tea” into a small, little, innocent, angelic choirboy. Starting with Zimmerman almost always referred to by just his last name, Martin almost always referred to by his first name.
Zimmerman, supposedly weighing 240 in initial news reports (they both actually weighed about the same 175 at the time of the shooting), bearded and glowering in the picture the MSM always shows, Martin a slightly built high school kid, shyly smiling at the camera in the picture the MSM always uses of him, rather that the large, 6 foot, two inch, threatening kid in a “wife-beater” t-shirt, found in a later picture on the Web, with some gold in his grille, and looking at the camera in a challenging way, and with a lot of attitude.
Zimerman’s brushes with the law highlighted, Martin’s multiple suspensions from school for possession of women’s jewelry and a screwdriver in his backpack he couldn’t explain, for vandalism, and for having a baggie with marijuana residue in his backpack a well-kept secret, one hardly mentioned in the MSM.
Zimmerman’s injuries–cuts on the back of his head, a broken nose, two black eyes, and a back injury–initially unreported, and supposedly nonexistent, then only finally, grudgingly admitted.
Last week we found at that Martin had bruises on his knuckles and marijuana in his system.
Now. yesterday. comes the news that angelic little Treyvon had a “fight club“ type video up on his Youtube channel, with him as referee and sometimes participant, a video that, for some strange reason , was scrubbed soon after his killing ,and only just found by some intrepid Web researchers.
Moreover, according to reports the supposedly “gated”* townhouse development, where George Zimmerman was part of the neighborhood watch and Trevon Martin was shot, had suffered a number or robberies and vandalism in the last few years.
Given the information about Treyvon Martin above, what do you think Martin’s most likely motive would have been for walking around the area, full of wet grass, behind the townhouses, looking around on a dark, cold, rainy night, rather than walking the straight line–supposedly something like a thousand feet—from the 7-11 to his home outside the other border of the development?
* Although it was apparently not “gated” or secure enough to prevent people from reportedly cutting through it on a routine basis to get to the 7-11 or other destinations on its other side.
This has been quite an elaborate “frame” that the Left and the MSM have been constructing.
Everything about the Trevon Martin-George—Zimmerman “narrative” has been very carefully crafted by the MSM–facts omitted, facts included, language parsed, emphases added, images and pictures presented—to tell the story that the Left and its captive MSM wanted to be told, and hitting the themes it needed to be hit.
So, I’m thinking that the “gated” designation, always repeated by the MSM in describing this townhouse development, was highlighted to give the audience the impression that the residents are “rich,” standoffish types, and probably racists who did not like blacks.
As I said before, if they can do such a railroad job on Zimmerman, they can do it on anybody.
I haven’t heard of contesting witnesses. It certainly is not DeeDee:
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/04/21/update-10-part-2-the-trayvon-martin-shooting-deedee-reveals-the-false-truths/
Piles of physical evidence? What? The physical evidence supports Zimmerman’s statements.
The question “Did Zimmerman pursue Martin” is irrelevant. That was not against the law. Nor would it prove culpability. The only evidence about this part of the time line is Zimmermans:
“As has been reported, Zimmerman told police officials that he lost sight of Martin and went around a townhouse to see where he was. Then he claimed Martin confronted him and punched him in the face, breaking his nose, and knocking him down.
According to a Daily Beast’s source, Zimmerman told police that when he was on the ground, Martin straddled him, striking him, and then tried to smother him.”
Meanwhile, we know there was motive for an arrest: To make a civil suit possible. We know the Sanford police department knew and didn’t like Zimmerman because of his efforts to expose their earlier excessive use of force. We know the charging of Zimmerman was due to the media, Crump and political concerns.
There’s just not enough to reasonably infer that Zimmerman has any culpability. Meanwhile, Crump is making a lot of money and publicity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culpability
When I first heard of this case I immediately thought of the Duke LaCross team.
And when I first heard of the Duke LaCross case my first reaction was that something stinks to high Heaven.
Maybe yes, maybe no, but I am very skeptical about the whole thing.
If you read the call transcript, you will see several things:
1) dispatcher asked GZ “Which way is he running”. Most people would take that as a request to keep the suspect in sight.
2) dispatcher said: “We don’t need you to (follow the suspect)”. GZ responded “ok”. In other words, he agreed to stop following as soon as dispatcher made the suggestion.
3) GZ seemed scared of the suspect. He says “he’s coming to check me out … How long until you get an officer over here”. Does not seem like he wants to confront the suspect.
http://www.motherjones.com/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman
One of the questions that remains almost entirely cloudy is whether Zimmerman got out of his car to pursue Martin, and what that pursuit and first encounter consisted of. In other words, who jumped whom, and why?
We have the police dispatch tapes that cover the period when GZ got out of his truck.
GZ runs after TM, and lost sight of him. While GZ talked on the phone, he reported that TM came back and stared at him, then ran away again.
After ending the call, GZ encountered TM near a T in the sidewalk on his way back to the truck. TM must have looped and came back (again) to intercept GZ, had he gone home he would not have gotten shot.
All of the evidence points to a good shoot. We actually have quite a bit of evidence in the open, the call to police dispatch, the wound evidence, etc. The actual eye witness account indicates that GZ was on the recieving end of ground and pound, but I think a femal ear witness claims it was “that little boy” who was screaming.
Someone noted that his breathing calms down, indicating he is no longer chasing anyone, at least not fast. But he also reported losing sight of TM.
The interesting thing here is that TM came back to stare at GZ. This is odd behaviour. As a 49 year old adult, if i was gonna stay I’d stay and if I was gonna run I’d run (at least withing the context of this sort of situation).
I will also submit it doesn’t matter why GZ got out of his truck or why he followed TM. GZ was well within his rights to do either of those things, and his motive doesn’t matter.
What matters is his decision to shoot. The evidence supports GZ’s claim that he was subjected to ground and pound, and under those circumstances he was justified in shooting.
Even if he iniated the contact, even if he iniated the physical confrontation. Once on his back in mount, he was defensless (except for the gun), and being subjected to a beeting was in justifiable fear for his life.
Kidz theze dayz.
Changes things. Older people don’t have much contact with kidz older than, say, five. That’s too bad because grandma and grandpa are (were) great socializers. Kidz used to love their grandparents who exerted a moral authority by love and by relationship.
Nowaday, few parents ‘win’ the battle over most of their kid’z will. Hollywood wins.
That’s the difference between a George Zimmerman and a Trayvon Martin. George, coming from a culture (Peruvian) that respects its elders, is reserved and protective. Trayvon, coming from a tradition that speaks to its elders with impunity, lose all restraint by age 12. The little babies, so cute and full of promise, grow up to be monsters and animals leaving their crumbs and babies for others to pick up.
Matt Damon is a genius. Oh, wait, that was a movie legitmizing violent genius. (And aren’t we all?)
George Zimmerman recently conversed with Rodney King and then asked, “Where the hell are the police when you need them.”
Isn’t the “seriousness” of the situation so serious that it demands a serious investigation?
Mrs. Martin on the “Price is Right:” $3 million on Trayvon.
George’s Mom: Nobody likes a tattletale.
Red Robin has a new “white” burger. Eaters are encouraged to eat all they can before the mob shows up.
Breaking wind? More like breaking free. (Okay, that one was definitely as juvenile as grill.)
Superman, Batman, coming out as gay? There will be no unmasking today.
The Manchurian Candidate remarked he felt odd in the presence of others.
The man barked, sharply, and ran out into the stone.
Women are the needed lovers. Men, if they do not have them will become stale, prosaic, and poop. It’s not so much a struggle of power, but of which way the river runs. Artfldgr, with his long ranting posts, gives the Chimpanzee threat mode demonstration. It is appropriate because the next event is complete destruction. Can you blame him? It’s not his memory or method but his passion coming from certainty of knowledge: We are doomed if we continue.
And, it’s not that women are stopped from achievement; in fact, the more the better, because they then express more meaningful love. And don’t think that men won’t respond with greater achievement. They will and their achievement is requisite upon women’s love. If women want to usurp that, turn it around, and make themselves the primary subjects of creativity, then motherhood becomes endangered and the whole thing falls apart.
The following is an example of an accomplished and beautiful woman being a woman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k08yxu57NA&feature=related
We, the tea party, want you!
We haven’t made it without you!
And we need you. Please will you
forgive our sins, and see that we love you!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZV53SuPMPU&feature=fvwrel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMUX_4B-Hr4&feature=related
Where the children of tomorrow . . .
The bond hearing for GZ was astonishing. They had nothing. And, it appears since, some of what looks even worse for the prosecution was in the prosecution’s hands at the time. IOW, the case was worse even then than it looked.
IMO, withholding exculpatory evidence ought to be right next to a capital crime.
what most forget is that this is not about the people who will come around and read and so on.
this is about injecting a separate reality into a subset of people, of which another subset will act out and so foment different things.
it was NEVER about majority or what it seemed to be about, as its about divide and conquer.
sociology will tell you that each will act according to the reality they perceive. negating discussion of those whose realities are always warped, your left with each of us having a slightly different reality based on what we could incorporate
now, the key here is to examine the conditioning of most people vis a vis normal social behavior.
if you know something and you know the facts. IF your rational and have no chip, you will fee sorry and or have empathy for someone that doesnt know and is acting out. we have sympathy.
but on the other side of the coin, if you konw something is right, and your not acting rational (for whatever reason real, imagined, instigated, incited, conditioned, etc)… then your going to be upset over the split, and your reaction to realign it will fall into several categories depending on personality
regardless, the mass of others who know the different information and feel sympathy are at a disadvantage (due to “idiot pacifism” and all the lefts missives that behaviors no matter how bad, can be made ok in context… therefore we are afraid to act, for fear of violating an unknown context and being seen as the oppressor)
and so you get a crowd of people who are nto smart enough to understand and so side by faith… and another side that are somewhat smarter and or not incurious and do explore and compare and reach a different conclusion. they tend to not have faith.
side one beats side two every time because its an army of zealots whose actions are justified by faith and belief. and behind all this is the instigating belief that is also added constantly in the back, that your plight is not due to you, but due to the white oppressors and Jews… (to name specifics, but it don’t really matter… is like a formula. X + Y = Z… we get wrapped up in specific values of X and Y… rather than see the general formula at play)
so what you have are zealots ready to do the same thing that fired up the inquisition, while at the same time, beleiving the opposite of themselves. so the more they change things, the more they see things fail, the more they assign it to the enemy, and the harder they work.
this is painting exit on the entrances and entrance on the exits. with no way within thier melieu to determine which direction their actions move things, they are constantly working towards the wrong goals. and working harder the worse it gets. (ie when your stuck in a hole you cant get out of, dont keep digging)
Newspaper: 4 witnesses change stories in Trayvon Martin shooting
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/22/11816588-newspaper-4-witnesses-change-stories-in-trayvon-martin-shooting?lite&ocid=todmsnbc11
The report comes after state prosecutors released about half the evidence they have in their second-degree murder case against Zimmerman.
Among the changes, according to the Sentinel:
Witness 2 basically now says they didn’t see two men, but one man, and that they didn’t have their contacts in, so couldn’t see clearly
Witness 12 A young mother in the townhome community first said she saw two men on the ground but wasn’t sure who was on top; she later said Zimmerman was on top because she recognized his size based on news reports.
so the showing of Trayvon at 10 changed witnesses idea of who was on top… as they never saw that trayvon grew up into a person LARGER than Zimmerman
Witness 13 A male neighbor first said Zimmerman, with a bloodied head, told him he had to shoot Martin because “he was beating up on me,” and to please call Zimmerman’s wife. He later went into detail and described Zimmerman’s tone right after the shooting as casual, like the shooting was “nothing.”
DO note that the way things are written, its hard for you to tell what they changed from and to… ie. did he change his testimoney from casual to someting else, or visa versa? those who are more fanatical, will pick what they want without ANY idea of things like confirmational bias (or even ideas of objecvtivism from ayn rand)
and THIS is the most important change..
Witness 6
A male neighbor, whose story change was initially reported Friday, first told police Martin was on top of Zimmerman and throwing down punches mixed martial arts style. He also first said Zimmerman was calling for help. The man later said he wasn’t sure who was yelling for help, and that Martin may have merely pinned Zimmerman to the ground. He was still sure, however, that Martin was on top.
ie. so now some are changing their story to not be in the way of the more fanatical side.
ie.ie. look at both sides, and which side would you be more afraid of telling the truth to if the truth would anger them?
one side is putting out death threats (which will last the rest of your life), the other side will just walk away… so guess which side si favored to control the testimony from common sense fear (as in mob trials)
Witness tampering in Trayvon Martin case?
http://www.examiner.com/article/witness-tampering-trayvon-martin-case
it basically goes into the same details i wrote and more above…
Statistically – Blacks are killing Blacks in record numbers.. It’s an epidemic and it’s over drug money.
That’s it American Media…..Focus on some poor dude trying to help protect his community..instead of the real and true issues.
I was watching a video of Zimmerman in the court room and noticed how small and how dark skinned he was… I look it up to find out he has Black and Latino as well as white, heritage. The man was raised with black kids, tutored black kids at his own expense and lived in the same house-hold with and raised by a half Black Grandmother..!!
ALSO- No one “but” the media said he followed Martin after being told by the cops that they didn’t need him to do that..THE MAN WAS RECORDED ON TAPE OF SAYING – OK!!
I could go on and on and on as to all the reasons to know that he did nothing but defend himself from getting beaten to death for having the audacity to follow a Black person. Even though he was appointed in charge of the neighborhood watch by his peers…
Oh the audacity –