At PJ: Give me liberty or give me social justice
Please take a look at my new article at Pajamas Media, “Give Me Liberty or Give Me Social Justice.” The subject is health care reform, but the real subject is the threat to liberty represented by the left’s agenda and philosophy.
I’m not so sure “the left” is the greatest threat to our liberty — the real menace is an out-of control Federal government. Not long ago, the Federal government stripped away our liberties in the name of “national security,” and today it’s stripping away our liberties in the name of social justice.
Either way, liberty dies.
Could be your most profound conclusion of many: “They will get neither”
There are far greater threats to liberty than a higher tax directed to alleviate the suffering of your fellow citizens. And there are few greater boons to social justice than ensuring access to health care for the disadvantaged.
People around the world enjoy better health care than Americans. But Americans will figure it out and in time design something excellent.
Jeff: your willful misunderstanding of the entire premise of my article is breathtaking. And speaking of straw man arguments, do you really believe that it’s taxation that I think is the great affront to liberty in these bills? In addition, as a Canadian, you fail to understand how our health care system actually works, or what the Republican arguments are that seek to extend coverage to the uncovered through private sector remedies. Or else, you pretend to fail to understand.
Well, see, Jeff can afford to be flippant. If he can’t get the health care he needs with his health insurance coverage in Canada he can come to the good ol’ USA, at least for the next few years.
We have brutally attacked our wonderful health care system in the guise of extending health insurance to everyone (but 27 million unfortunates). We could have done a lot more by extending health insurance coverage and left health care alone.
Now, if you don’t have health insurance you can still get health care by showing up in some emergency room. After this bill becomes law you will have health insurance but will not be able to get health care (a la Canada and Great Britain, among others). Long, long lines will delay needed services. And, if the poor do not have to pay a deductible, there will be no disincentive for their living in their doctor’s offices.
The greatest number of doctors who were trained in Canada are now practicing in Florida. With the negative economic incentives in the bill to practicing medicine in the USA doctors trained in this country may have no choice but to pack up and practice where they will be paid an honest buck for their services. Of course, those Canadian doctors in Florida will also be moving on. Even if they stay, the newly insured (20 million?) will be in your doctor’s office before you, so you may have a long, long wait to get an appointment.
Those poor Canadians. They won’t be able to drive over the border for an MRI, or elective surgery, or even to see a generalist any more. Then, they will have to live with their really terrific health care system. Perhaps then they will not be so flippant.
Jeff: I agree with you that “there are far greater threats to liberty than a higher tax,” regardless of the ostensible purpose for which the tax was imposed.
One such threat to liberty is a legislature that passes legislation to nationalize 1/6 of our economy, in direct and obvious disregard of the opposition of nearly 60% of the citizens to such a plan. That threat is exacerbated when the legislation in question is crafted behind closed doors, at the last minute, and voted upon in the dark of night. The threat rises to grotesqueness when enough votes to pass the legislation can only be obtained by doling out $1.2 billion in pork — to the members of the majority party!
Neocon, your article conflates the contemporary left with Robespierre’s Reign of Terror, yet you find my few sentences breathtaking. Rather than find an enlightened point of view from the political centre, as I always assumed and even hoped you would, you’ve become a hack. You can’t believe half the stuff you write, and if you do, well, more’s the pity.
You might want to ban this identity and IP as well, as I occasionally visit Ottawa from Toronto.
[from neo-neocon: yes, stevie, I figured it was you. You show your true colors in every manifestation. You are your own best refutation.]
Comment I posted at Pajamas Media:
“Have Americans decided that liberty is passé, and that equality and fraternity – or the pretense of both – are far more important?”
The kind of “equality” advertised by the Obamaites does not lead to fraternity, and indeed cannot coexist with it.
Antoine de St-Expuery: “If you would have them be brothers, have them build a tower. But if you would have them hate each other, throw them corn
I’m guessing Jeff has a large picture of Che Guevara on his bedroom wall. Or maybe a Tshirt.
Just a guess.
MikeLL: “jeff” and “porch” are both sockpuppets of an old troll named “stevie” (and about twenty other aliases) who used to frequent this blog with some regularity.
Maybe a red flag should go off in someones head if twenty aliases are needed to give honest opinions…I’m jus sayin…
Perhaps no one on the left has ever been in line at the DMV.
Somewhat off-topic:
Was Max Baucus drunk on the floor of the Senate?
I report; you decide.
Freedom and the free market has enabled this country to provide more for more people around the world.
In a small thought exercise… it only takes a few brain cells to see how little people strive or work or learn when everything is guaranteed for them.
Let someone else provide – I’m tired today…
stevie, porch, jeff – can you give me a smoke? I’ll call it good.
Just yesterday, I read that the head of Germany’s largest public health care plan predicts that several other such plans will go bankrupt this year. These public plans operate with state control of benefits, and individual payments are based on income. In recent years, the government has attempted to reign in costs by requiring patients to pay 10 Euros for each prescription and a 10-Euro-per-quarter fee for doctor visits. Despite these and other measures to control costs, there are constant reports of financial shortfalls. Private insurance companies are also raising premiums.
If Democrats really believe a bunch of bureaucrats can change a worldwide trend toward increasing medical costs, they are nuts. Innovation costs in the short run, and Americans want innovation. In the long run, specific costs may come down but people live longer and need more quality-of-life treatment. Most people understand this in their guts, but will remain in denial as long as politicians lie to them. It really does come down to a question of who chooses.
social justice is what you get when you have lots of people who are not really that smart, pretending to be smart all over.
“Enlightened Nazi’s” – H.G. Wells
It’s either government choosing who gets what resources – socialism and communism
or…
it’s the people choosing who gets what resources.
When people choose who gets what resources we are free to do better for our families. To succeed. To shine. To find new and better ways and be rewarded for the fruits of our labor.
In this country the poor and elderly have care with Medicare and Medicaid.
In this country you have been free to NOT have health insurance. That will now be mandated – if you are a living person – you must pay for insurance.
I cannot understand WHY Democrats can’t make the reforms necessary to help lower costs – like tort reform.
This goes beyond incompetence. It is offending my senses from so many angles. It seems evil.
“… you’ve become a hack. You can’t believe half the stuff you write, and if you do, well, more’s the pity.”
Jeff, review the Cap’n’s short but superbly elucidated comment which precedes your own self enamored “enlightened point of view from the political centre”; you’re projecting, it’s you who sounds like the hack…
Cap’n Rusty Says:
December 26th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
Jeff Says:
“Neocon, your article conflates the contemporary left with Robespierre’s Reign of Terror, yet you find my few sentences breathtaking. ”
It is pretty important to the left to discount and ridicule any attempt to explain their intellectual history… being so messy and all… Just paragons of pure logic and reason they are… spontaneous and completely practical in their policy decisions. Ideology? None here I can assure you. 🙂
Anyway, several historians have claimed part the reason the French revolution went sideways were the revolutionaries misunderstood our understanding of the ‘pursuit of happiness’. Many on the contemporary left do the same… and assume that if only the evil conservatives would get out the way universal love and… happiness… [Cue ‘imagine’ in the background] could break out…dogs and cats… living together! It’s all just a few votes away! When it doesn’t happen it tends to foster resentments and… well.. hate… of ‘the other’… conservatives, the right, et cetera… and properly stoked it can lead to violence… even today (re: nothing much has changed structurally in this worldview… the only big difference is it is not as common in contemporary America).
jeff/stevie said:
This is indeed a straw-man argument.
In the discussions on this site, I’ve often taken a position somewhat more to the “center” than many others who also comment. In fact, I’ve repeatedly referred to myself as “Center Right,” to accentuate that I’m not all the way to the right. And I’ve often warned against “conflating,” as you say, the policies of, and effects of, the Obama administration, with that of a totalitarian society. I would note three things:
First, Neo has clearly not been among those for whom this “conflating” error (in my opinion) has been a prominent tendency. In fact, she has striven, as shown by this posting (click here) to express herself in a manner that does not jump all the way down the “slippery slope,” but instead takes note of nuance.
Second, taking note of nuance, and not conflating “the contemporary left with Robespierre’s Reign of Terror” does not mean that one has to swallow hook, line, and sinker the premises asserted by the left, or to agree to an enormous unprecedented increase in the federal government based on those premises. Neo actually does an excellent job in her article articulating why there is reason to fear that the proposed health care plan will merely limit choice without, as you say, “alleviat[ing] the suffering of your fellow citizens”. You may consider actually reading it without letting your emotional “knee-jerk” reaction pre-empt your reasoning ability.
Third, as noted, the commenters on this blog have had disagreements as to the effects of the Obama administration, and to the gravity thereof. But, I should note that I have respected the views of even those with whom I may have been most in disagreement with. The key thing is that I accept that both those here with whom I agree, and those here with whom I disagree, are sincere in what they are saying, and are saying it out of concern for our country. I can respect that in either case. But, I honestly think that your statements (Jeff/stevie), given in a rote manner without even a casual reference to anything Neo actually said, are provided in bad faith. Again, actually read Neo’s article .
Excellent article, neo! Indeed, it does come down to first principles. Europe never really got individual rights, said rights being less important to them than social justice. That’s why so many of them left to come here.
The pattern is the same as always: Government gets involved somewhere and messes things up. Instead of backing off with an, “Oops! Pardon me!” some pencil neck bureaucrat demands greater powers to force “needed changes” on the stiff-necked resistors.
The only difference with today’s health care issue is one of scale. Government got involved where it should not have been many a moon ago with a variety of regulations. They are using the resulting price distortions as proof that the free market has failed to provide adequate health care, therefore, they must radically change the system in order to save us. Nice and neat.
As usual, Ayn Rand was right.