Home » The Trump real estate verdict and New York’s economy

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The Trump real estate verdict and New York’s economy — 35 Comments

  1. What goes around comes around.
    See, e.g., Fani Willis
    I hope Trump has someone digging up the dirt on Bragg and James. And Hochul, too.
    The dirt will be there. No one gets that high in NY politics by being honest.

  2. Trump was not always persona non grata to NY leftists. The Clintons went to his wedding. He got some civil rights award. But when the left needed to destroy him, they showed no hesitation. For those with leftist friends, ask yourself what would they do if you, for some reason, needed to be destroyed. Would they stick up for you?

  3. I think this is very good news for Florida. Mountain states, Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, even Idaho, have been doing well. A lot of wealthy folks moving to those states. Tennessee and parts of the Carolinas are attracting many, and have been for several decades.

    California has extraordinary unique terrain and a variety of climates to appeal to all tastes. In Accounting terms, it had tremendous “goodwill,” but it is so politically mismanaged many are leaving. And ridiculous prices are keeping folks from retiring there. The Yogi’ism, “nobody goes to that restaurant any more, it’s too crowded,” applies to California.

    Even the most snobby northeasterners and Californians can be impressed when they visit Florida. There are some very snobby, high end areas there. Florida’s high end construction and gated communities can convince a lot of elitist folks to get over their distaste for “the South,” but Florida’s summer weather is something no real estate developer can fix.

    Manhattan’s (and Chicago’s Loop, and Detroit and Boston and other, big cities’ urban, business cores…) concentration of corporate offices is of little benefit to businesses in a world where high speed internet is available everywhere. Why pay outrageous rents for office space to be close to other companies paying outrageous rents for office space when most of your employees don’t want to commute to an office and any contact you have with vendors, clients and business partners is already via zoom?

  4. As a retired unsuccessful criminal I am against any & all Laws made by humans or a King. Am also waaay further to the right than the Republican party—hence am registered as NPA (No party affiliation) in Dixie County, Florida. Yes, all my rights were restored except firearm ownership, so I can vote. Ditto on the Yes, Dixie County exists in Florida.

    Democratic party has sought to control the Law for decades, and Obama opened the door for them. We are now seeing what they can do with a tiny control of the Law, so one can easily see what they will do once they have full control of the Law.

    Conservatives like to harp about how great living under the “Rule of Law” is, but human Laws are all about who controls them—and/or controls the making of them, i.e., the ‘Controller of the Law’ gets to cram them down the throats of other humans. “Rule of Law” is just a modern version of the old King’s Law, IMHO.

  5. And the truckers are planning not to deliver to NYC. They claim their bosses can get them loads to anyplace–remember the driver shortage?
    And those of you who’ve driven in NYC can imagine the difficulty of handling a semi there. Other destinations would seem a great idea.
    So what reduction in incoming product–most kinds–does it take to inconvenience the locals? 2%? 5%?
    I expect nobody’s been exerting themselves to ship too much into the city on a regular basis so that a modest reduction drops it to “just right, no surplus”. Any reduction will be from the necessary.
    Anybody recall a bazillionaire who doesn’t mind being seen to be rich getting such support from the hard-nose blue collar guys?
    Some of it’s Trump. And a lot of it’s his enemies.

  6. As someone who has relocated for work several times I put a lot of emphasis on what executives’ wives think when gauging the future of business facilities. When given the choice of a relocation I gauged my decision on what Mrs. Firefly thought. Take a trip with her, meet a realtor, tour some schools… I would tell her, “I understand the job, I understand the business and I can do the work. It’s an office and a desk. Can you find a place here where we’ll like to live, schools where our kids will do well, friends we can socialize with?” No matter how great the job I would have been very hesitant to move without her buy in. And, no matter how great the job, I would have been very hesitant to NOT relocate if she felt our family was unsafe or our kids could not receive a good education.

    Executives’ wives are hearing from their friends who left NY, Philly, Boston, San Francisco, San Jose, D.C. and moved to Boise or Denver or the Carolinas or Florida. They see how much further one’s real estate dollar goes in those areas. How much easier it is to get around. How much better the weather is. How much safer it is. The lack of homeless and illegal immigrants…

    I think a lot of executives are getting an earful from their spouses. “Susie’s husband moved his firm to Boca Raton and they live on an acre of land that backs up to an inlet where their boat is docked in a gated community with a great country club and she’s always tan and their kids love the weather and one of their neighbors is that guy who was in that movie and she’s friends with that athlete’s wife and the wife of that guy who owns that business…”

  7. If Trump is elected, he should accept this court ruling barring him from controlling legal entries doing business in New York by forbidding any Federal entities under his authority (i.e., the executive branch) from doing business in New York.

    If lawyers object that it is not the explicit terms of the court order, he should reply that it is the spirit of the order and he will abide by the spirit to avoid being held in contempt.

  8. Two more quotes:

    “There are two passions which have a powerful influence in the affairs of men. These are ambition and avarice—the love of power and the love of money. Separately, each of these has great force in prompting men to action; but, when united in view of the same object, they have, in many minds, the most violent effects.”

    –Ben Franklin

    “Now, the pursuit of power is a zerosum game: you acquire power only by taking it away from someone else. The pursuit of money, however, is not a zero-sum game, which is why it is a much more innocent human activity. It is possible to make a lot of money without inflicting economic injury on anyone. Making money may be more sordid than appropriating power—at least it has traditionally been thought to be so—but, as Adam Smith and others pointed out, it is also a far more civil activity.”

    –Irvin Kristol

    What the Democrats have done–and what has moved into overdrive under Obama and Biden–is the tight coupling of the pursuit of money and the pursuit of political influence and power, This coupling is devastating both to the American economy and to the American spirit.

  9. Also, remember this ten years ago from then-governor Cuomo?

    Oh, yes, I can never forget it. If I had to point to one single thing, one moment, that decided me for the rest of my life against associating myself with this state any more than absolutely necessary, that was it. Not to mention the decisive role that interview played in shaping my view of His Royal Highness on a personal level.

  10. So this was a civil suit? I figured it was criminal, because the state brought the case.

    Then Elon Musk’s question does apply: “Given that there are no victims with losses, who is supposed to receive the money?”

    I guess we can assume that the state gets all the money, but Musk’s question raises other questions about this very questionable verdict.

  11. Rufus T. Firefly, according to Turley, the requirement to post the entire penalty with the state in order to appeal is in the law which NY State used against Trump. Of course, it’s never been used in this way before, and such a massive penalty was not in the minds of the legislature, even in New York, when it passed.

    I think the whole thing is unconstitutional, but I have no idea what avenues Trump has to challenge its legality.

  12. Kate,

    That invites an interesting approach that could have Trump’s side jiujitsu this to damage New York.

    In the contracts Trump’s side gave a value for the properties and the contracts stated the lenders are free to do their own determination of value. The interest rates were based on the valuations.

    Therefore, if Trump’s valuations were wrong and/or the lenders failed to correctly value the properties, resulting in Trump getting a lower interest rate doesn’t this invite a class action suit from all the other borrowers using those same lenders who did not receive artificially lowered interest rates?

    Wouldn’t the actual victims be those borrowers who were not given the favoritism Trump was given? What if a class action suit was brought on behalf of those borrowers?

    New York’s DA’s office playing such absurd, ridiculous games with the law opens any lender in New York to ridiculous standards of due diligence and liability. This case sets that legal precedence. A class action suit against them would scare off any commercial real estate lender from writing loans in New York city.

    Alinsky’s 4th rule for radicals, “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.”

  13. “So what reduction in incoming product–most kinds–does it take to inconvenience the locals? 2%? 5%?”
    – Richard+Aubrey
    at 4:42:

    I saw a prepper video that said most cities are nine meals away from problems. That’s three days. Unless a lot of people have the recommended 30 days of food on hand, a city can get hungry rather quickly. The blue-collar class has a lot more power than most people realize. In the past they’ve not seen a need to exert it against their fellow citizens. With lawfare, the Green New Deal, Bidenflation, and a wide-open border people are getting fed up.

  14. They don’t use the words. Gallant, noble, or dignified. There are other words which I don’t normally use but for entirely different reasons. Some words can’t be said by trash with any honesty. Other words are too low to leave the mouths of decent men.

    I can swear like a Sailor. I am a Sailor. Ain’t no saint. But my parents paid for an education. I think I’ll use the vocabulary they paid for. Small minds equals small vocabulary.

    All I can think about since October is the screams. I want pay back.

  15. The last thing Israel needs is some geriatric fool. I wish I had something to offer. I’m looking at the tools available to me. Cutlasses were declared obsolete in 1949 in the USN. I’m still a good rifle shot.

    You all have gotten your rifles from the Civilian Marksmanship Program?

    The thing about blades though, is, they work all the time every time. I know. It sounds like silly talk.

  16. J.J.

    Ref “nine meals”

    Even a small apartment can have that much food in stock. Depends on the number of people.
    The problem is what the folks think when they know their usual grocery supplier is going to be out of food entirely by the end of the week. Even if they can get that far with the pantry.

    If somebody knocks on your door wanting food…?

    The utilities are out of spares?

  17. If the general populace thinks there will be a shortage then that could be a self fulfilling prophecy. I live in Brisbane Australia and when we had floods a few years ago supermarket shelves emptied out in days, despite the fact there was no real underlying shortage. People stockpiling created a shortage where there othewise was none as they bought up weeks of supplies in a matter of days. The supply chains are built to handle regular demand – something like this can break them in short order.

  18. Neo:

    Unbeknownst to me at the time – on reflection solitary confinement was a ‘Gift’ which eventually led to life as basically a hermit (15++) w/ each year getting better. Human herding seems to start around 4-6 years old, is difficult to break away from, and a clear majority never even try. Hobbes made a strong case for humans needing to live under the King’s Law. Aside, there’s a quote, which I can’t recall, about humans willingly accepting a just taskmaster/ruler (???) which adds to Hobbes’ point. I’ll take solitary confinement over Hobbes’ herding anytime… 😉

  19. NYC’s migrant ‘crisis’ has resulted in the beginning of severe budget cuts. Closure of libraries on Sundays, housing migrants in hotels and schools, reduced trash pickup, cutting back the police force by 5000 officers, an influx of migrant gangs are just the beginning. Add to the above, “Illegal migrants in NYC are receiving 7 months free rent, free meals, free insurance and more…” This is unsustainable and will result in much greater violence, leading to the city collapsing into chaos and the NY State national guard patrolling the city streets.
    NYC liberals are about to “get it good and hard”. NYC can’t print its own money, the Biden administration is not going to close down US borders and red states will keep sending the migrants to the blue cities.

  20. How many big business people in New York are conservatives and/or Republicans, and politically active?

    I would hope (though this seems to be a stretch given our current circumstances) that even liberal or at least not GOP business people are given pause about what could be done if they get crosswise with The Party in NY for any reason. Hochuls’s typically ham-fisted attempt at “assurance” actually makes the threat pretty plain. There’s probably nothing new about it given the levels of corruption usually reported from the blue zones but it’s usually been a dirty little secret among the bureaucrats, politicians, and their victims. The openness would seem to indicate it’s going to move to a whole ‘nother level now.

  21. I would imagine that with Musk already in “Biden”‘s sniper rifle sight, Ackman and those of similar inclination (e.g., divesting from woke universities with great fanfare) will be next in line, unless he somehow finds it in himself to publicly “repent”.
    Maybe.

  22. J.J.,

    “The blue-collar class has a lot more power than most people realize. In the past they’ve not seen a need to exert it against their fellow citizens.”

    Strikes. Less common in the U.S. than Europe, but still, we’ve had some doozies in our past.

  23. Regarding Republican “Big Business” leaders in NYC:

    It takes awhile for the gods of the copybook headings to catch up with business entities with an enormous structure and a huge surplus of assets, so often you’ll see progressives in control of such entities. You tend to find more conservative minded people running small to mid-size businesses. There’s a lot of ruin in a nation. Less ruin in a state. Even less in a city. There is a lot of ruin in Disney, Ford and the New York Times. Southpark Studios Global, Tesla and Townhall.com have to be more practical and nimble.

  24. “Strikes. Less common in the U.S. than Europe, but still, we’ve had some doozies in our past.”
    – Rufus T.

    Yep. I lived through three at my airline. Two short strikes by the mechanics, and a doozy when we pilots were locked out by management. Their intent was to destroy the union. They almost succeeded.

    It’s a rather disconcerting feeling to be picketing the training center and see your replacements riding buses into the place.

    Because this was never about money, but rather about ending union representation on the property, the aftermath was not pretty. I retired eight years after the strike, and bitter feelings were still running high.

    I have always believed that service industries, where a strike immediately impacts the lives and incomes of people who aren’t stakeholders in the dispute, should be forced into compulsory arbitration when negotiations have broken down. Most labor negotiations can be resolved when both sides are open to the facts and aren’t clinging to pie-in-the-sky aspirations.

    Strikes in commodity industries are different. The commodities can be stockpiled so that the strike doesn’t affect non-stakeholders as much.

    Unions have declined because many of them are run by professional union organizers who are often crooks. Workers have gotten sick and tired of being represented by thugs and crooks who don’t have their interests at heart. At least ALPA is still run by rank and fille pilots who can be voted out or recalled, unlike the heads of the SEIU, UAW, Teamsters, NEA, etc.

  25. Karmi,

    “Rule of law” means we are ruled by the law.

    The alternate is “rule of man”.

    The situation you describe is “rule of man”. Which seems to be the state we are now in.

  26. from my sources, the bug judge engoron, clerked for the members of the appeals court, so odds are not good,

  27. We used to love Maynard G Krebs… not so much now
    but all these cases have other things in the background going on that will probably negate them…

    however, they did something no one else was able to do
    reveal them as knaves, and secure the idea they are fools away in a safe

  28. Don:

    Who makes the laws for the “Rule of Law”? Rule of Law is the term used by most conservatives, and a concept highly promoted by them. It eventually becomes the same old “King’s Law” tho maybe without an actual King. Who ever controls the Rule of Law gets to cram them down the throats of whomever they chose…so to speak.

  29. It is no coincidence that three of the Trump prosecutors are black.

    We are entering the post-Mandela South Africa phase of American jurisprudence.

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