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Hating the Israelis and Jews even <i>more</i> after the October 7 attacks: why? — 25 Comments

  1. Quick note Neo: the “See this” link winds up as a dead end for me.

    But indeed it makes sense. Unfortunately Jews have been consistently hated, usually for things they as a whole and even their individual members are not responsible for (there have certainly been truly evil and infamous Jews, but nothing that can explain or justify this level of hatred). I even have to point out how it was the Arab Higher Committee and its precursors under Mufti Amin al-Husseini who introduced genocide and expulsion into the politics of the Levant after WWI, which says a lot about the “Balestinians” who would fly his flag, and which usually gets utterly skipped over by people who want to pretend the war dates back to 1948 at the earliest.

    But there will always be those people that glamorize the violent revolutionary, and uncompromising ruthlessness. Unfortunately that dovetails very well with both totalitarian ideology and the dogma of Islam.

    They can also act with a level of impunity knowing the “other side” will not act with anything like a fraction of the ruthlessness or hardness that they do. And indeed the few times they have gotten overconfident they have generally learned. It’s telling that while not totally nonexistent PLO terrorism has seriously declined in Jordan since Black September, when the Hashemites showed they were not Westerners with pesky ideas of human rights or democracy, and responded to the PLO trying to usurp their power with Syrian assistance by reacting decisively and brutally (and ironically probably saving more lives in the long run in Jordan). I’m no fan of the Hashemites but that should underline how the core of the PLO and Hamas is not responding to historical injustice.

  2. I am appalled at the college idijts and their support of Hamas. So far, to my knowledge (limited) no real Neo-Nazi group has joined in calling for the elimination of Jews and Israel.

  3. “in general the virulence and number of expressions of anti-Israel and anti-Jewish sentiment – especially on the Left – have increased.”

    I suspect part of this a gut response by people who know, deep down, that this puts the Palestinians (and their advocates) in a terrible light. Rather than admitting it, they just “double down,” because who wants to admit they’ve been wrong all along? A few have, but like many who have trouble apologizing or admitting guilt, they instinctively blame the victims or someone else.

    And how about what happened at Cooper Union yesterday?

    https://nypost.com/2023/10/25/news/cooper-union-barricades-jewish-students-inside-library/

  4. Excellent summary. I’ve bookmarked it.

    I’m neither Jewish nor Israeli, but I’ve talked to plenty of Jew-haters in the Middle East. Some were Arabs, some Europeans, some Americans, even some Australians. If there’s life on Mars, I’m sure we’ll find some Jew-haters up there. I’m not religious, but the universality of Jew-hatred makes me suspect that God exists.

    In my experience, all of the factors listed by Neo can come into play, but the malevolent balancing act seemed most common.

    At 4:47, Jimmy called it “doubling down.” I think it’s related to Neo’s principal theme that a mind is a hard thing to change. Here’s the part I’m talking about:

    “It’s as though there’s a balance scale in which the greater the Palestinian offense, the greater Israel’s crimes must have been in causing such a reaction. That way the person’s belief system is kept intact. The MSM leads the way on this.”

  5. So what’s happening with all those progressive liberal/leftist Jews who support all the Democrat principles no matter how vile and antisemitic???

    I hope that student at BU was the exception and not the rule, but I doubt it.

    Hard for many Jews to accept that the conservative Christians are their best friends. Cognitive dissonance run amok.

  6. The left has asserted for the last 60 years that they know how peace, prosperity and a civil society can be created. Their efforts can only be termed a colossal failure. But if you entire concept of self is caught up in that world view, you’re very loath to acknowledge you were mistaken. Thus the impulse to assert that just a little bit more of the same thing is all it would take.
    How empty must be your life if CRT or climate hysteria is all you really have. It was remarked a couple of decades ago that if only married people voted, Bob Dole would have been President.

  7. I think Jimmy is onto it.
    If one has been romanticizing the Palestinians and other designated victim groups, it’s a heck of a thing to find out they’re actually worse, much worse, than you’ve been excusing them for.
    Or, at least, being so public about it that your support starts to look freaky.

    And, one of my go-to guesses; displacement. That anger has to go someplace and the designated victim group is obviously not the target. So the Jews are the demonstration pieces without whom this awfulness would have been on the QT, as would have been the support especially the vicarious thrills of obscene violence.,

    I have wondered about the catastrophe that was the South immediately after the Civil War. Of all the things which were going wrong, what was the most obvious reminder of the whole thing? Black ex-slaves. Were race relations worse after the war?

    Without the Jews, none of this would be happening? Thus, it’s their fault.

  8. I’d add to (3), the role of violent porn in desensitizing people to violence in general, the increasing legalization and consumption of marijuana, “shrooms,” and other mind-altering drugs. A lot of people enjoy taking various substances (some legal, some not) in order to let what D.H. Lawrence called “the dark gods in the blood” have free reign. It’s not so much that alcohol and other drugs cause violence directly as that they remove inhibitions against it and provide excuses for it. Freud famously said that “the superego is readily soluble in alcohol,” and I think he would have said the same about hallucinogens and other types of psychoactive drugs. In general, we live in a culture that values Dionysus over Apollo.

  9. physicsguy:

    I think it’s important to remember that leftists are not ordinarily religious. Leftist Jews are no exception.

    In fact, leftists – Jews or otherwise – often hate people who are religious (the exception being the left’s alliance with jihadi Muslims). Observant and especially Orthodox Jews tend to be on the right, and non-religious Jews on the left. So the latter are not predisposed to think kindly of religious Christians. Plus, there is a distrust based on a lengthy history of religious Christian anti-Semitism that was sometimes extraordinarily violent.

  10. I was horrified when the details of what the jihadis did on Oct. 7 began to be reported, and the people in the US who are celebrating or trying to justify these acts make me ill. Thanks, Neo, for these explanations of how people might be excusing themselves for supporting barbarity. Their excuses don’t make me excuse them.

  11. “Hating the Israelis and Jews even more…”

    “Practically” speaking, in this latest round of the war to obliterate the Zionist Entity, the fake news—i.e., LIE—promoting Israel’s purported bombing of that Gaza hospital, resulting in at least 500 casualties, which was broadcast non-stop by almost if not ALL the major GLOBAL networks for many days, and which is still believed by multitudes, contributed mightily to a narrative that was already being enthusiastically pushed and which so many, given their own biases, ideology and ideas about “morality”, clearly WISHED, or at least were clearly prepared, to believe.

    And so, “Fake but Accurate” once again raised—and continues to flaunt—its ugly, putrid head….

  12. Neo, that is undoubtedly true, but what I can’t understand is how such secular Jews somehow think their world view makes them immune to antisemitic and the ethnic cleansing coming their way.

  13. Physicsguy: “Hard for many Jews to accept that the conservative Christians are their best friends.”

    Not for this Jew. Born and raised in New England, I’ve lived in the Deep South for almost 20 years among Southern Baptists, Methodists, and evangelical Christians. Never felt safer.

    Most people down here own firearms and know how to use them. A gunsmith friend commented that if there’d been just a few Alabama rednecks with ARs and shotguns at that rave on the Gaza border, the paragliding terrorists would have had a very bad day.

  14. @ David > “re Romanticism, see ”Blame Biden for Entertainment-Industry Leftism’.

    I knew he was old, but not that ancient!

    Thanks for the link, though; the writer’s observations from 2004 (practically antediluvian!) were indeed enlightening.
    Things have only gotten worse since then.

  15. After reading David’s post at CB, I took a look at this one from Sgt. Mom on October 19 and highly recommend it, as well as the associated comments.

    https://chicagoboyz.net/archives/70151.html
    “A Double-Edged Sword”

    I expect any minute a rousing chorus of “Tomorrow Belongs To Me” from the Jew-hating undergrads and their professors on the campus too many colleges and universities.

    I used to wonder how Germans under Adolph Hitler came around to accept, support, or at least turn a blind eye towards the so-called “Final Solution”, during the 1930s and ’40s. Well, wonder no more – I’ve seen it play out now in real time.

    To try and focus on the horror and misery inflicted on the innocent and the self-justifying replies from the usual pro-Palestinians boils down to something like the rationale from an abusive spouse – “Look at what you made me do!”

    All that being said, we are seeing a backlash of sorts, this time around. The loud, proud, and indiscreet Jew-haters are getting called out, substantially.

    It’s almost impossible to explain all that away, to claim exaggeration, war propaganda, bias … when it’s all out there on the internet, unmediated by reporters and a media which likely has a bias of their own. The internet and social media have become a double-edged sword. We can see events unfiltered.

    Third – I do wonder how many Americans really have any warm feelings towards Islam and Islam-inspired wars of conquest.

    In the years since 2001, a fair number of American military personnel have served a rotation or two (or more) in Muslim-dominated countries and overall have been less than enchanted with what they saw there or experienced.

    Are we finally seeing a turning point?

    Even if we are, the unholy cabal of the Left and Islam will do a lot of damage before it is vanquished, whether apocalyptically or on a lesser scale.
    Sarah Hoyt’s blogposts discuss the various possibilities frequently, and in general I agree with her that in the end we win, they lose; but it will be a long hard road to get there.

    Side note about the veterans with no illusions about the prevalence of Noble Muslims: another reason for Democrats to run them out of the DEI Forces?

  16. One of the comments I mentioned drew attention to this perceptive, if pessimistic, post from Bayou Renaissance Man:

    https://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2023/10/organized-mayhem-on-american-streets.html

    Matthew Braken posted a link to this video on X (previously Twitter). At 1m. 41sec. in the video, you can see a minivan try to get away from a horde of Antifa “demonstrators”, only to be intercepted by highly organized and well-equipped rioters.

    There’s more at the link, including a detailed photographic analysis of what happened. I highly recommend that you watch the video and read the original post.

    Please note that the organizers of this “demonstration” had foreseen the need for such highly organized, well equipped, aggressive agents, and provided for it. This was no casual gathering: it was a professional operation, planned and executed with precision. We’ve seen it before in left-wing progressive-dominated cities like Minneapolis, Seattle, Portland and elsewhere. Now we’re seeing it in many more cities.

    All my previous warnings to get out of “big blue” American cities are reinforced by this video. If you live in such an environment, the risks to your safety grow daily. Get out if possible. If you can’t get out, or if you have to visit such cities from time to time, pay attention to the ever-growing need to be able to defend yourself and your loved ones against such organized criminality, if necessary.

    This is what the organized left intends to bring to America’s streets everywhere. Plan, train and equip yourselves accordingly.

  17. The Telegraph started a new podcast this week about the Hamas war on Israel and have had two episodes. I am struck how easily they have fallen into acceptance of Hamas propaganda first on the “Hospital Bombing” and then accentuating the “civilian” casualties resulting from IDF air strikes in Gaza. They also display an anti-Bibi attitude.

    Today their correspondent Daniela reported about seeing the unedited video from the massacres and how she was shocked, shaken, but soon talked about those who in their grief blame the Israeli government and military.

    Another correspondent, Natalia, spoke about a leftist peace activist family living in a kibutz on the border who went out if they way to help the Gazamites, but were slaughtered by the Hamashites on 10/7/2023. She spoke to a surviving son who wasn’t there, and how, approvingly it seems, he blames the Israeli govermmment. How much more difficult to face reality that the leftist/peace mindset regarding Hamashites is and was deadly to Israel, Jews, and his own family.

    There were other segments about Turkey (Erdogan good mostly) no mention of the Turkish flotilla incident that Hamas did ~ 10 years ago, but mentioning that Erdogan has been very soft about the massacre.

    Another segment mentioned Xi and the CCP accepting anti-semetic and anti-Israeli propaganda on the CCP interwebs.

    It was disappointing to see the spin “Israel bad” be promoted so soon after the massacre.

    The podcast is called “Battle Lines” it may get better, so far it is in purgatory.

  18. Ace of Spades HQ has a lengthy Morning Rant, eventually getting to a poll which suggests ten percent, give or take, of American Jews support Hamas.
    He has some…words for that.

    Why? Far as I can tell, there is a school of thought which thinks America is bad, no facts needed, and the same for the West. Thus, our enemies, no matter how foul, are better and must be supported. Besides, only the knuckle-dragging “Patriots” think the US is a good idea, all things considered. We intelligent folks know better and that’s why we’re in the minority. The virtuous minority.

    I feel that in various conversations when stuff like facts come up. Might be wrong…but what else?

  19. From Neo’s 1st factor — Romanticism —
    “Berlin’s assertion that the Romantics glorified those perceived as downtrodden: the failures and the minorities. Romantics didn’t just express empathy or sympathy for them, but actually elevated them to a place more worthy and more noble than the successes and the majorities. …”
    This immediately brought George Floyd to mind, for me.
    Of course, there are others. The left are really good at elevating non-white criminals.

  20. Pingback:Instapundit » Blog Archive » NEO: Hating the Israelis and Jews even more after the October 7 attacks: why? The more the Palestin

  21. Note that the currently fashionable catchphrase for everything the Left hates is no longer “white supremacy” (aka Western civilization) but “settler colonists,” a term equally applicable to Israel and the Americas (though I expect there’s a carveout for Hispanics).

  22. I remember walter mead in his crazy youthful era, making those points about the us and israel and australia, in mortal splendor, then he settled down

  23. “Anti-Semitism is a protean and flexible instrument, as well as an incredibly virulent and long-lived one. ”

    That is true, because Jew-hatred’s university basis is long-lived, in the association people in academia have between Jews and Markets. A University was first chartered (in 1088A.D.) as a place to train up men to a standard of literacy that enabled them to be government clerks. As the continuing industrial revolution proceeds, the market for government clerk jobs is ever-more imperiled, alongside the university market for training those clerks. This is visible in the most competent published definition of the continuing industrial revolution:

    “When a society moves from allocating resources by custom and tradition [moderns read here, by politics] to allocating resources by markets, they may be said to have undergone an industrial revolution” Arnold Toynbee-1884

    It is no oddity that the place people go to hook into the government power hierarchies, the Ivy League, is currently a cesspool of both anti-market hatred, and of Jew-hatred. In particular, this hatred swelled over the past 50 years, as the Jews were no longer downtrodden, but victorious in war, and, as they ceased their socialist rejection of markets in Israel, increasingly the richest nation in the Middle East.

    The University, as a social artifact, is, by its purpose, inherently hateful of markets, and of those groups associated with successful market participation. As long as the Jews were downtrodden and under mortal threat, they could be praised, without worry. But powerful and victorious Jews, participating in markets around the world, are a threat, and are not a threat to be tolerated.

    IMHO, it is the universities, and their Administrators, that hate Jews more than any other power block in Industrializing societies.

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