Trump as martyr
In a post I wrote about three weeks ago, I mentioned that Trump might be becoming a martyr in the eyes of voters on the right. I certainly perceive him that way, and have for some time – not in the religious sense but in the more general sense of, “a person who suffers very much or is killed because of their religious or political beliefs, and is often admired because of it.”
It can be dangerous to make someone into a martyr. However, that person’s enemies can weigh all their options and believe that martyrdom is better than either letting the person live or continuing to let the person function freely. The Ayatollah Khomeini is a pretty good example; in this post I wrote about how in 1963 he was under a death sentence but his life was spared by the Shah’s government because they didn’t want to make him a martyr and therefore even more powerful. Of course, we know what ended up happening – and one of the first people Khomeini had executed was the general who had successfully argued years earlier for sparing Khomeini’s life.
I am not for a single moment suggesting that Trump is some sort of Khomeini and the left the Shah. What I’m trying to say, however, is that when there’s a figure that a political group sees as the enemy, there is the dilemma of how to counter that person and the movement represented by those who support the person, and there are many different ways to handle it.
When Trump was running for office back in 2016, the Democrats handled it by ridicule and scorn; they mostly imagined him to be a ludicrous figure who wouldn’t win. Their horror when he did win was a good part of the reason why they spent the next four years in so-called “resistance” activities, including trying to frame him over and over and over, as well as impeaching him on exaggerated grounds. It didn’t work, but through propaganda, “rigging,” “fortifying,” and perhaps outright fraud, they managed to defeat him in 2020.
But that wasn’t enough – no, not nearly enough. They are determined to destroy him one way or the other. In that post from three weeks ago I described various possible scenarios, but the point is that they want him gone and the lawfare against him is a big part of it so far.
But have they considered the possibility that the Shah had to consider with Khomeini, martyrdom? Trump certainly has considered it. Back in June he told a religious group the following [my emphasis]:
Speaking at the Faith and Freedom Coalition gala in Washington DC on Saturday night, Trump slammed the two indictments he is currently facing as he looks to reclaim the White House in 2024.
He said he considers each new indictment against him a “badge of honor.”
“I’m being indicted for you and I believe that ‘you’ is more than 200 million people who love our country,” the former president said to applause. “This is a continuation of the greatest witch hunt of all time.”
There is a subtle – or perhaps not-so-subtle – echo there of Christian belief. But it’s certainly true that he is being indicted to give warning to his supporters, who are at least half the nation. And the similar persecution (through Draconian sentences) of the J6 defendants bears this out.
Trump’s June declaration to the faith group was no one-off. Yesterday he repeated the claim [emphasis mine]:
Former President Donald Trump told supporters at a campaign rally for the 2024 election in Rapid City, South Dakota, on Friday that he considers the various criminal indictments against him to be a “badge of honor.”
“Every time the radical left Democrats, Marxists, communists, and fascists indict me, I consider it a great badge of honor,” Trump said. “And I’m being indicted for you. I am being indicted for you. I’m not too thrilled about that. But that’s part of the job description, isn’t it?”
“Martyr” seems to have become part of Trump’s job description. He’s well aware of it. Will this perception affect anyone other than those who already support him? I’m speaking not about those on the left, or those who already hate his guts. I’m speaking about those in the middle who aren’t sure. Such people must still exist, right?
Those who are instrumental in Trump’s persecution are doing their level best to make him into a martyr. Were they not blinded by their ideological fanaticism, they would sense the great danger in trying to force change, while handling those who resist a figure made larger than life by the grave injustices to which they have subjected him.
The irony is nearly Shakespearean; life can be stranger than the fiction to which it gives birth…
“You can’t win, Vader. If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.”
meanwhile the humiliation is nearly total
https://twitter.com/CitizenFreePres/status/1700546690233573495
If Trump wins in 2024, we will see riots like we’ve never seen before. That I can tell you.
But have they considered the possibility that the Shah had to consider with Khomeini, martyrdom? Trump certainly has considered it.
Apparently the cretins who control the MSM haven’t given it much thought. Strange, actually, so many leftist ‘heroes’ are martyrs – ever hear of George Floyd? Ever consider the deaths and destruction which celebrated his martyrdom?
We are witnessing a delusional elite group leading us into what for the U.S.A. are uncharted waters.
If Cornhead is right about the riots, now is a good time to get ready. After they start, it will be too late.
I saw what happened here in 2020. The rioters and looters were moving toward the suburbs.
This time I predict that the suburbs will be their priority.
Guns, ammo, cameras, alarm systems, fire extinguishers, door jams, getting familiar with your local police, and more might be considered. Antifa loves to burn and destroy property. Don’t let them do it.
the more interesting example was saddam, he had khomeini in najaf and karbala for 15 years, and yet never made a move, he persecuted other shia leaders, like the sadrs,
There is a revolution going on, the Deep State/ Marxists have grabbed the government and are not going to let go, maybe for fear of their opposition doing to them what they are doing to DJT and followers.
I think Trump is too flawed –contumacious, vain, impulsive, bullying and generally “FY”– to be a martyr, at least in the usual sense.
But he is being pushed into that role by the evil overreach of his persecutors. The more cruelly they lash him, the more they trample the core values of the Republic in their insane drive to “get him,” the more he will get people to vote for him –not because he’s the best pick, or even a very good pick; but because his persecutors, doing such damage to the country we love, need to be driven from power.
PS: If Cornhead and J.J. are correct, we face a lose-lose future. If Trump loses, we’ll be under the thumb of the worst sorts. If he wins, we get the savagery of the George Floyd Summer, everywhere and without end. God help us.
Although this has been known for a long time: https://nypost.com/2019/12/21/donald-trumps-theyre-after-you-tweet-says-it-all-goodwin/
Putting it a different way: Picture somebody from the Department of Justice watching Trump with the mug shot face taking the Oath of office. What would this person do to prevent it?
I am struck by the simpering hypocrisy of the GW Bush-led former Presidents’ statements moaning about “threats to our democracy”, while hundreds of innocent protesters languish in squalor as political prisoners, and while their political opponents are persecuted with charges that are beyond contrived, by a Judiciary that has been overtaken by corruption.
By God, I pray Trump will visit retribution upon these criminals, but where he will find more than a handful of honest men in DC to stand with him, I cannot imagine!
Bush…continued:
From the “Clowns to the Left of me, Jokers to the Right” File:
“…Bush foundation chief who organized unity letter previously leaked Steele dossier;
“The letter champions American unity in supporting democracy while the Steele dossier was used to undermine the 2016 presidential election.”—
https://justthenews.com/accountability/political-ethics/bush-mccain-ally-behind-presidential-foundation-unity-letter
Opening graf:
“The executive director of the George W. Bush Institute, who organized a letter from presidential libraries calling for national unity, previously leaked the now-debunked Steele dossier to reporters during height of the Trump-Russia collusion investigation….”
Looks like we’re gonna hafta redefine “Unity”…again….
Related:
“MSNBC columnist demands Trump ‘must die in prison’ to protect democracy;
“The liberal radio host said Trump’s prison sentence must deter others from leading a ‘coup’ “—
https://www.foxnews.com/media/msnbc-columnist-demands-trump-must-die-prison-protect-democracy
Looks like we’re gonna hafta redefine “Liberal”, too…but this has been common knowledge for some time….
“Biden” Be Busy….
(“Biden” Buy Bastille?…)
Trump? Check.
RFK Jr.? Check.
Musk? Working on it…
“Robert F. Kennedy Jr. — The Health and Freedom Candidate”—
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2023/09/10/rfk-jr-health-and-freedom-candidate.aspx
Opening grafs:
“We’re facing a constitutional crisis. Elected officials are actively working to censor, silence and smear anyone who disagrees with them, including Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who is running for president;
“As a major presidential candidate, Kennedy is entitled to Secret Service protection, but Biden is blocking that too. Kennedy is the first candidate in American history to be denied Secret Service protection;
“Through a lawsuit brought against President Biden by the attorneys general of Louisiana and Missouri, we’ve learned that the Biden administration began censoring Kennedy on Biden’s second day in office….”
Musk, continued.
“Biden” has been gunning for him since he released the Twitter sessions and revealed “Biden”‘s massive censorship of vital health information—as well as information on the “Biden” Crime Syndicate’s extraordinary corruption and their attempts to conceal it—in collusion with the corrupt info-tech/media sector.
And—wouldn’t ya’ know it!—seems that Zelenskyy had “gotten the memo” as well!
‘ Zelensky On Starlink-Gate: Musk “Committing Evil” & Driven By “Big Ego” ‘—
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/complicit-major-act-conflict-escalation-musk-denies-cnns-inflammatory-war-meddling
(Wonder how long it will be before the EU kicks in…)
…because under “Biden”, the TRUTH is not allowed (reposted)….
“Scientist admits he ‘left out the full truth’ in order to publish climate change wildfire study”—
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/environment/scientist-admits-he-left-out-full-truth-order-publish-climate-change
File under: Narrative uber alles.
Nor does “The New Republic” wish to be left out of the party…
I just got a notice from them on…
“Why it’s actually HEALTHY for you to despise Trump”
One of the more nauseating grafs (note: they’re all nauseating…):
“…So hating Trump can actually be healthy for you—but only if you use your anger constructively, stand up for yourself and your opinions, and take action to help yourself and everyone else overcome the gigantic obstacle to happiness he so perfectly represents….”
(Or maybe this just passes for “Liberal” humor….)
File under: The Not-So-New Insanity…
…As “Biden” encounters ONE institution of higher learning that “he” finds “himself” UNABLE to manipulate, intimidate, coerce, corrupt and ultimately ruin…
But REMEMBER: “Biden” IS the Resistance!
…And since “he”‘s in the Demolition business—just ask a whole slough of people, cities, states and organizations—and has a rather impressive selection of weapons at “his” displosal, “he” ‘s forced to go to “Plan B”…
“The Regime Strikes Back;
“The Biden Administration opens a meritless civil rights investigation into New College of Florida.”—
https://christopherrufo.com/p/the-regime-strikes-back
H/T Powerline blog.
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one dinosaur to another
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12500977/Biden-lands-Vietnam-upgrade-diplomatic-ties-counter-China-threat-honor-John-McCain-alongside-fellow-vet-John-Kerry.html
Amazing.
The icing on the cake.
After this, I’m pretty certain that the Babylon Bee is going to have to close up shop… (There’s simply no further reason for it to exist….)
Barry Meislin, that federal “investigation” of New College, Florida, raises substantial issues at the core of the cultural wars. If the federal government can re-define “discrimination” to require official recognition of newly-manufactured pronouns and require DEI training and teaching, we’re in deep, deep trouble. It is really an existential threat to the Republic as it was designed.
Gosh, Kate, I think yer onto something here.
Not to worry, though.
They’re no doubt expanding the number and capacity of re-education camps—a la Jordan Peterson—as we speak.
It will be a transfer of populations: Half the country to the camps—to study those pronouns, or whatever—which frees up a decent sized chunk of homes for the homeless and the illegal immigrants to move into.
Another “Biden” Win-Win!!
(But “Biden” ‘ll have to do this before too many people start noticing…
https://instapundit.com/604828/ )
meanwhile back at the ranch
https://twitter.com/KanekoaTheGreat/status/1699899978582491464
Indeed, as EVIL wafts across the land…
By DESIGN.
Speaking of words—make that “The Word”(TM)—let’s get metaphysical!
“A Work of Biblical Proportions;
“REVIEW: ‘The Word: How We Translate the Bible—and Why It Matters’ by John Barton”—
https://freebeacon.com/culture/a-work-of-biblical-proportions/
H/T Powerline blog.
File under: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLSMsfz_keI
Pingback:Instapundit » Blog Archive » NEO: Trump as martyr. In a post I wrote about three weeks ago, I mentioned that Trump might be beco
If you strike me down, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
–Obiwan Kenobi, “Star Wars”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVBX7l2zgRw
__________________________________________
I wonder how one does the math on that calculation.
its not literal, obiwan guided luke to yoda, and he trained to fight vader
Politely left unsaid in Cornhead’s comment is the “Who>Whom” of the riots. No secret who instigates. Left unsaid is who will attack, and who will be attacked. Weaponized Demographics.
JWM
If Trump is martyred we will see Leftists dancing in the streets and giving each other candy as the Palestinians do when a Jewish child is murdered.
Democrats and their career government functionary minions are behaving much like the group of the 1920s that Mises remarks on:
“It has often been said that nothing furthers a cause more than creating martyrs for it. This is only approximately correct. What strengthens the cause of the persecuted faction is not the martyrdom of its adherents, but the fact that they are being attacked by force, and not by intellectual weapons. Repression by brute force is always a confession of the inability to make use of the better weapons of the intellect— better because they alone give promise of final success. This is the fundamental error from which Fascism suffers and which will ultimately cause its downfall.”
–Mises, Ludwig von. Liberalism (1927) (p. 51)
what von mises and hayek were fighting against
https://prussiagate.substack.com/p/1871-part-iv?r=jul43&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Barry M., thanks for the link to the book review about “The Word,” on Bible translations. I lean towards “formal equivalence;” that is, I’d like the translation to say as nearly as possible what the original Hebrew or Greek says, and cultural differences between myself and ancient Hebrews or NT peoples can be explained in the notes. But I do see the author’s point on poetry. When the original is poetry, it’s nice if the translation also tries to evoke the response to the original poetry.
I have been concerned about Trump’s safety since 2016. I don’t trust the Secret Service and hope he has his own body guards. This Mass Formation Psychosis is capable of anything.
What Mattias Desmet has shared with us is another [“a-ha” moment]. This comes from European intellectual inquiry into what the heck happened in Germany in the 1930s… How did that happen?
The answer is mass formation psychosis.
Desmet says the psychosis affects about 30% of the population. Another 65% is passive and allows itself to be led. About 5% resists, as the “White Rose” group did in Germany. That is close to what we face although we have at least more than 5%.
…Except that von Mises could have said the same thing about the Fascists’ mirror image operating out of Moscow (and Beijing and Belgrade and Tirana)…with the caveat that the Communists and their apparatchiks were better able to deploy their well-honed—if entirely bogus—“weapons of the intellect” to persuade the wide- and starry-eyed seekers of Nirvana of the “justice” and “humanity” of “The Cause”.
Same thing is happening today—though the fools who are swallowing this crap hook, line and sinker (or should that be, “with eyes wide shut”) really ought to know better: this because the world has “been there, done that”…and the results have been less than, um, shall we say efficacious…and WILL ALWAYS BE thus…
(In fact, they were, brutal, murderous, destructive and dehumanizing…but hey, maybe they’ll get it right this time around….)
von mises, was tracking the dirigist’s like bleichroder, mentioned in that long link prussian gate, about state power linkages that go back some 200 years
Kate, it’s an interesting project to sit back with several translations and compare them.
But…doing so is a bit arduous and ultimately, the reader picks the one (or two…several?) that seem to “speak” to the reader better than the others.
To be sure, having that range of possibilities at hand can deepen one’s understanding.
There was/is a series of “annotated” classics: The Annotated Sherlock Holmes, The Annotated Alice in Wonderland, The Annotated Mother Goose, etc. I imagine there’s also an “Annotated Bible”…but these, too, would come with the viewpoints of their authors, commentators and compilers….
(And of course, in some cases, translations—especially of the Bible—can provoke withering outrage amongst the dissatisfied…or, perhaps, pedantic, purist types…)
Should be said that at first Herr Schicklegruber at first made the Old-School Prussian militocracy extremely nervous.
To be sure, they softened up more than a bit when the dominoes began to fall rather neatly and the victories started piling up…but in the end, their suspicions were justified and, in fact, it was members of the Old-Guard military families who ultimately tried (on several occasions) to assassinate him…for which they and their families paid a heavy price…
The problem is Trump has had numerous large unforced errors since the 2020 election that has put himself and those close to him a great legal risk. They are probably going after him way too aggressively but he is like the 3 year old that keeps pushing the glass closer and close too the table edge. I was and am firmly in his corner during the Russian Collusion hoax and the two sham impeachments but until we can call out some of his reckless behavior I am not sure where I am on all of this legal issues. On top of that. I am not of fan of how he is running his reelction campaign. Still sticking to the insults and stupid nicknames. Not a serious guy. I am was once a big supporter
what should he have done, we how civil the left was on january 20th, we didn’t realize how many different ways they stole the election, and we know why they did it, from the ballot avalanche, to the suppression of contrary narratives, to the deliberate death of thousands of persons in nursing homes across 5 states,
Sean Burke:
I’m in some agreement with you. I perceived Trump losing some of his political instincts shortly prior to the 2020 election, and the problem has increased since then. He’s been under mega-stress and that could explain some of it. But still, it’s a problem as I see it.
The problem is Trump has had numerous large unforced errors since the 2020 election that has put himself and those close to him a great legal risk.
Such as being indicted on ridiculous charges ? I wish he was a bit less confrontational with DeSantis but he did the same in 2016 and it worked.
The real question is if the Democrats seeing all this lawfare failing, will one of them kill him?
Trump was vilified / libeled, de platformed, and censored after the 2020 election for the Jan 6th insurrection.
Trump has stayed relatively on message with his 2020 election fraud claims, and public opinion on the issue has moved to the majority believing there was some election fraud. Rasmussen has covered this change. Is this due to Trump continuing to hammer away at the issue?
https://www.uncoverdc.com/2023/04/20/rasmussen-on-election-integrity-likely-u-s-voters-suspect-election-fraud/
My gut feeling is Trump has tried to be careful about Jan 6th trying to avoid indictments till after the midterms.
Where I disagree with Trump:
1. Playing nice with the eGOP machine. He played nice. While the eGOP did not, losing some winnable races.
2. No mea culpa on Covid. He got bulldozed, and did amazing in a no win situation being actively sabotaged with the threat of impeachment and blood libel if he deviated too much from the Covid regime.
3. I have no idea on his strategy with the incompetence gop party, and how nationwide and in most states it’s run by anti Trumpers, that hate their own voters. And okay every dirty trick to stay in power. Trump seems to be trying to play nice with them. He should run an uprising to replace the party elites at a state level and national.
4. Lawfare – Trump should fund lawfare both for offense and defense. Democrats are amazing at taking care of their own.
5. Trump should call out the gop lack of support for the Jan 6 political prisoners continually, both party and most elected officials.
6. Election integrity- until this is fixed I don’t see how he don’t be cheated out of office again. It seems he is not building an infrastructure to defeat the cheating. Kari Lake is a great case study on the uniparty uniting to cheat her out of winning.
7. Trump not going after the corruption, or at best willful ignoring, of the fbi, doj, and judiciary. Could Trump pierce qualified immunity?
My guess is Trump has chosen to focus his communications on only key areas, and the indictments have been a huge distraction.
@Owen
Not so sure I’d go that far. Off the very top of my head we have at least one self-confessed murderer and former highway robber (Moses the Ethiopian) and one former warlord and genocidaire (Olga of Kyiv). Sainthood isn’t something one has through not being flawed (because *everyone* is too flawed), but through avoiding certain flaws, such as irredeemable selfishness and lack of repentance. As for if Trump is too flawed in those ways, only time will tell. But he has certainly done far more for the US than most every have.
@Ray SoCa
Well said indeed, and pretty close to my thoughts.
@Barry Meislin
I don’t think he needed to “get the memo” in this particular case. Honestly, if the story happened in any way like what was described, Zelenskyy was probably among the first to know. Probably told by staff that the Starlink connection was severed during the operation for no clear reason and the drones failed.
He likely felt he had to sit on it for now and stew to avoid more of a breach with Musk. But honestly while I generally support most of what Musk does (even given his less than savory ego and worker issues), this had to be one of the absolute worst ways to draw a line.
Frankly, sinking the Russian Black Sea Fleet is probably the biggest gift for peace anybody could provide. I’d even go so far as to say it’s probably a necessary step for even a temporary stable peace, and sinking it in an occupied (so there’s no question of whether it was justified or proportional) harbor (so loss of life would be minimized) would probably be the safest way to do it. If nothing else it’d greatly limit Putin’s threats to bombard the coast and blow up civilian liners hauling cereals, which’d probably help cool down the Global South a bit.
No doubt…but my point is, why NOW?
Answer: because Musk is NOW firmly in the crosshairs. Musk is NOW being targeted (well, for some time, actually). Musk MUST be “dealt with”. He MUST be made an example of. After all, angry, uber-vindictive, grotesquely self-righteous criminals do not forgive nor do they forget. And they “repay” with interest…. And these are the creatures that have hijacked the country, are currently manipulating almost every lever of government and have their hooded, bloodshot eyes firmly fixed on that last lever of power that has thus far eluded them, much to their crazed outrage and venomous consternation: SCOTUS.
(As for “drawing the line”, yes indeed: Musk, who has helped the Ukrainian cause—mostly defensively—in multiple ways, far more than certain western governments, in spite of rhetoric, helping them to stay in the fight, especially at the onset of the Russian attack, decided that he was NOT going to be the one to enable that kind of escalation, even if one may label it “defensive”—assuming HE was the one who actually made that decision, but then whom else could it have been? And who knows? Perhaps Starlink was threatened with retaliation; to be sure, Putin et al. is always threatening something or other. OMMV.)
And the all-important question is, of course:
‘ “Who Is Biden Working For?” Admin Under Fire For ‘Illegal, Reckless’ Cancellation Of Alaska Oil Leases’—
https://www.zerohedge.com/energy/who-biden-working-admin-under-fire-illegal-reckless-cancelation-anwr-oil-leases
Or maybe it’s not important all…since we know that Biden is NOT “Biden” and we know that nothing that emerges from the “Biden Administration” is true…well, except for the results of “his” policies of Personal, Civil, Municipal, State, National and CONSTITUTIONAL destruction.
…And on the Global Level? Well, let’s just call it, “Global Restructuring”(TM), which is why there needs to be so many crises—“sexual” (or “gender”), “medical”, “climate”, “military”, “financial”, CRISES OF TRUST, CONFIDENCE AND HOPE ACROSS THE BOARD.
(And PRECISELY WHY China is the MODEL to be EMULATED!
https://humanevents.com/2022/11/23/wef-founder-klaus-schwab-says-china-is-role-model-for-many-countries )
So…WHOM exactly is Biden—sorry, “Biden”—working for?
But let’s rephrase that slightly: “Whom exactly is Justin Trudeau working for?” (Or “Whom is the EU working for”?)
More precisely, “WHOM are ALL OF THEM of them working WITH?”
Musk continued…
“Blinken refuses to criticize Musk, who says he denied Ukraine’s request to use Starlink for Russian attack;
“Musk says he denied Ukraine’s Starlink requests to avoid being ‘complicit in a major act of war’ “—
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/blinken-refuses-criticize-musk-who-says-he-denied-ukraines-request-use-starlink-russian-attack
– – – – – – – – –
And here’s a curious one:
“Biden admin pledges $520 million to make Ukraine’s energy infrastructure ‘cleaner, more resilient’ “—
https://justthenews.com/government/diplomacy/biden-admin-pledges-520-million-make-ukraines-energy-infrastructure-cleaner
How GLORIOUS! HOW NOBLE!!
(Might this mean that Zelenskyy et al. have “Biden” over a barrel????)
File under: BUBB?
@Barry Meislin
Problem is, as you admit, Musk has been targeted for years over this, including by the Eurocrats. However, I think in this case it is more a simple matter that the story up to this point was on the down low and so the Ukrainians felt they could not confront Musk over it without risking confirming things they were not prepared to confirm. That went out the window with this.
Yup. And this is a major thing that terrifies me. I have my disagreements with Musk and will continue to do so but that isn’t what’s important. What is important is the left’s dominance and attempts to make that permanent.
Let’s not wax too poetic. He has been compensated handily for it by the US Government. I am not sure if this ever was charity on his part (and to be fair nobody can or should expect charity from a hard nosed businessman), but it hasn’t been for a while. Which also raises a couple issues I have not seen discussed.
A: Musk almost certainly did not have the right to do this unilaterally. He’s in a contractural relationship with someone and possibly more than one someone (ie US Gov’t, Ukrainian Gov’t, or both). Did he get their permission before doing this? If not he is in breach of contract and just gave the left an even larger bullseye on his back. If so something smells all the worse.
And
B: I am guessing Musk got permission, and since the US Government is paying the bills on Ukrainian Starlink it would probably be from them. Would also explain Blinken etc al. Chances of Biden’s junta being two faced yet again being brought up in the midst of Muh Russia Russia Russia baiting?
To which I would reply: what escalation?
The Russian Black Sea Fleet is a legitimate target of war, and only the most feverishly deluded of the Kremlin’s propagandists (like the idiot who called the sinking of the Moskva a terrorist attack) say or believe otherwise, and they got told to STFU by their marching orders later. Moreover, the Ukrainians have already launched attacks on their ships before, including destroying their flagship the aforementioned misfated Moskva.
And it comes after Putin has publicly threatened to sink neutral ships going to and from Ukrainian ports, even those involved in the Cereals Deal. In spite of a lot of those being from neutral countries and on either humanitarian or quasi-humanitarian missions.
Forgive me if I find the threat of escalation to be rather scant, and that not only do I find the excuse from Musk to be weak but I think the Kremlin would too, even if they will bluff
This is where I do mention that contractually Musk had to consult with someone to do this, and that someone is probably the Biden Junta.
A friend mentioned this and how it is probably on Musk’s mind, and fair enough I cannot fault him for that. But he could say so.
Musk indeed is being targeted by the Left, but, he is a big boy. It is funny that the left still has it’s nappies in a twist about what Musk has “done” to Twitter, i.e., allowing Russian propaganda to flourish (and dialing down the left’s censorship and collusion with the Democrat Deep State), not being all in on the Transmogrifiers. These things are deeply troubling to them.
yes the black sea fleet, is a legitimate target, like the Bastion, in olden times, but what is the next step in the escalatory ladder,
more to the point, Putin is not destroying this country, Gazprom bribes to all the right players had some impact on people already motivate to destroy our energy infrastructure, now the citizens of Alaska would have to be invaded so they can be allowed to pump oil, the Iranians or some new AQ franchise will attack Abquaig again, and we have made ourselves impotent,
Re ballot security, Kemp doesn’t believe in it, the prog atty generals and secretaries of state in the other states, believe uttering it is blasphemy, see the prosecution of alternate electors
what the eu calls ‘russian propaganda’ I call samizdat, there are various degrees of reliability, but nearly none of the mainstream tv or print outlets are, in toto,
the ones who told us there was an ‘epidemic of the infected’ there was an ‘insurrection’ and the latest of course is ‘global boiling’ well they are totes reliable,
You make some good points but I find him to be unlikeabale (actually odious is the right term) as a person to be a martyr.
@miguel cervantes
Don’t know, and I honestly don’t want to find out. But I do know the Russian Black Sea Fleet has been an instrument of war and aggression by the Kremlin against its neighbors for a decade and a half (some of us still remember Georgia in ’08). Its conduct from 2014 alone is enough to underline why it cannot be trusted, and the threats to sink any ship regardless of nationality, cargo, or mission regarding the Cereals Deal is in my opinion more than enough to justify taking it out, and probably would help slow the escalatory ladder by undermining the incentive for more naval ops by both sides and also undermine both means and incentives for it.
I’d cautiously disagree. He absolutely is not the top author of it or even in the tenth but he is willing and eager to play a subsidiary role in it and has been for many years, as his ties to the Clintons and Biden show.
Indeed, and that’s also why I’ve emphasized we need to focus on here.
It’s also why I figure that taking the Russian Black Sea Fleet out of the equation and undermining the Kremlin’s means and incentive to threaten neutral food shipments out of Odessa etc. al. will probably help stabilize the situation more than it will destabilize it, since it’ll remove the risk of the MSM going “DO SOMETHING” if and when gets shot.
Indeed, and that’s far more important. Honestly, at this stage I’m at the point where I earnestly believe anybody and everybody in a position of trust regarding ballot and voter security who cannot prove chain of command be liable for summary execution for treason. An ugly and desperate measure to be sure, but also one that is becoming increasingly attractive and may at some point prove needed.
Dubious. They certainly are happy to smear many independent critics as Russian Bots or Propagandists, as the reveal behind facebook showed. However, sometimes a broken clock is right. It’s also worth noting that Twitter is outlawed in Russia, and so only those either breaking the law (which admittedly is not rigorously enforced unless you are guilty of wrongthink) or tied to the regime are allowed to do it. Hardly self-publishing dissidents in the latter case.
Now to be fair, a broken clock being right also applies to the Kremlin. It’s not OFTEN I say good things about the “Organs” of the Soviet or Russian States, but I will freely admit that something isn’t inherently false just because it is Russian propaganda. Indeed they played a leading role in blowing open the Islamist Pakistani genocide in Bengal (which Nixon and Kissinger agreed to) in 1971.
Agreed, but I can say the same about Pravda.
Of course they’re not. But that has to be balanced with the people who told us Moskva was sunk in a non-existent storm, that Zelenskyy is a Nazi Jew, and that the Little Green Men weren’t Spetznaz, to cite just a few.
(Oh and also that Islam is a Religion of Peace, something else Putin has trotted out).
Which is why the answer to both is not to believe either, but to skeptically assess their claims and what evidence – if any – there is.
well you should consider what could happen, if this is the course of action,
this gang of penzance admirals and generals, steering us in the way, and it didn’t have to be this way, cui bono about our emiseration and collapse,
Musk only refused to turn on starlink service for that area per Glenn Greenwald:
https://rumble.com/v3g1yc0-system-update-145.html
And now Musk is being called a traitor and there are calls to appropriate starlink.
While spacex is being sued for not hiring immigrants / refugees (non U.S. citizens), when being told he could not due to national security.
And the faa is focused on spacex.
And musk is threatening to Sue the adl.
And the Ca Censorship requirements.
Yep – Musk is being targeted by lawfare and the media.
If Trump was assassinated there would be a backlash. That would be part of the plan.
@Ray SoCa
That fits with what we’ve seen and what we haven’t around that time. If comms were disrupted on a wider level we’d have seen and heard it.
Which I’ll be the first to condemn. If there’s one thing Musk is not, it’s a traitor. I profoundly disagree with his choice here, but I think it is clear he isn’t a traitor. Especially since he got either permission or acquiescence with that choice.
But it helps normalize the demonization of the Other by the Dems.
It is one reason I generally admire the man, in spite of everything.
musk is risking his equipment and his men, in a warzone,
I remember reading about the Bastion in the author behind the tailhook scandal, vistica, he clearly tried to portray Admiral Lyons as a dangerous rogue, a man who had called out the negligence that lead to beirut barracks bombing and later in life, the AQ hit on Ambassador Stephens,
“…If there’s one thing Musk is not…”
Here, I’ll make it a bit easier for ye’.
He’s being called a traitor.
By traitors.
He’s being called a criminal.
By criminals, liars and thugs.
But then, I assume you know that.
And we know why THEY’RE doing that:
Musk has revealed some seriously unsettling (read, CROOKED) revelations about THEM that THEY would have preferred stayed unknown, or covered up (or at least “unverifiable”).
I would tend to believe Musk when he says he did NOT wish to make any decision to escalate the war (but I do tend toward naivete); however, If THEY told Musk to lay off the Russian Black Sea fleet—IF!—then what it means (or, more judiciously, what it COULD mean) is that THEY did not want that fleet destroyed.
This would be in keeping with what seems to me(!) to be the “theatrical” nature of this war (IOW, why “Biden” needed it, needs it needs it to continue, at least for the foreseeable future; viz., the war serves as a useful means to cover up that which “he” needs to cover up, to distract from that—BIG THING—for which “he” needs a successful distraction…though the way he’s taking the US apart, THAT could be “everything”).
Still, what might that “BIG THING” be?
Here are some hints (caveat emptor—it’s my bugbear, after all…or “hobby horse”, if you prefer):
Hmmm—a tidy sum! A “symbolic” number, perhaps?…
“Biden admin ok’s transfer of $6 billion in Iranian funds for prisoner exchanges: report”—
https://justthenews.com/world/middle-east/biden-admin-oks-transfer-6-billion-iranian-funds-prisoner-exchanges-report
While the following COULD merely be more “calling wolf”, couldn’t it? (Or perhaps not…)
“Israel Sounds Alarm Over Possible Russian Advanced Weapons Transfers To Iran”—
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/israel-sounds-alarm-over-possible-russian-advanced-weapons-transfers-iran
Distractions, coverups, deceptions, OH MY!!