The distinction between intersex and transgender
This article by Colin Wright, “Understanding the Sex Binary,” may seem somewhat esoteric, but it deals with an important distinction in the trans debate. Here’s how Wright puts it:
The “sex binary” refers to the biological reality that there are only two sexes—male and female—and that these categories refer to individuals whose primary sex organs are organized around the production of either sperm (male) or ova (female). The “sex binary” does not entail that every human is unambiguously either male or female, even though the vast majority are.
This is an important distinction, because adopting the second framing is inaccurate and plays into the hands of activists who seek to debunk the existence of only two sexes by calling attention to the existence of rare edge cases (i.e., “intersex” conditions). But the first framing (“there are only two sexes”) is both biologically accurate and ensures that two distinct concepts—transgenderism and intersex—remain distinct. It also puts to rest the false notion that the existence of rare edge cases necessarily entails that sex is a “spectrum” and that we are all therefore intersex to some degree.
Crafting effective policy therefore requires treating transgenderism and intersex as the distinct concepts that they are. It also requires not falling into activists’ trap of conflating intersex with transgender.
I have noticed before that the existence of rare intersex people is often used, illogically, to bolster the pro transwomen-in-female-sports argument. This article is useful if you ever find yourself discussing the issue with someone intent on blurring that distinction.
I have always wondered why some people think the existence of people with birth defects justifies their position on trans. Especially for underage children.
I never understood the “but, but, but…intersex people exist! So being trans is valid!”
That argument would only work if transgender people were themselves intersex. Instead, the vast majority of trans are boring old XX or XY (I would presume at the same rate as non-trans), and most intersex don’t like trans people using their condition as some sort of gotcha, when it’s almost completely unrelated to transgenderism.
One condition is “Androgen Insensitivity syndrome.” The genetics are XY but the phenotype is female. Jamie Lee Curtis, the actress is an example. Infertile (her children are adopted) but very good female in appearance. Her breasts which she exhibited in “Trading Places” look normal but may be good implants, or a combination of both. The rest of her is very obviously female in appearance.
There are several adrenal conditions that result in some male characteristics but they are also associated with more illness. The default human phenotype seems to be female. Turner’s Syndrome, which has an XO genotype, is associated with a lot of morbidity.
I was a resident at CHLA when Curtis was diagnosed.
Neo speaks of blurring distinctions. That is the default position of most “activists” these days.
I would postulate that that is the only way many of them can argue their positions.
Humpty Dumpty should feel right at home in 21st century America.
So far as the transgender craze is concerned, I expect that sometime in the future thinking people will look back at the emotional attacks and physical mutilation inflicted on children in the same way that we look back on the Witch Trials.
Thanks, this does look useful. I became embroiled in a bitter and fruitless argument with a (former) friend who did exactly what is described here: using rare “edge” cases of a fundamentally binary phenomenon as a way to argue that the phenomenon was really a spectrum and we all had some of the other element mixed in. It’s rhetorically seductive and invites pointless quantitative arguments: if at least 0.1% of the population is “intersex” isn’t that proof that ‘we’re all a little bit that way?’ What if it’s 0.0000001%?” Rubbish; but as I say, a nasty rhetorical caltrop.
(And no, “caltrop” is not a typo).
A little off topic, but there is an excellent novel by Jeffrey Eugenides, “Middlesex”, in which the protagonist and narrator is intersex. A great book, it chronicles the gene being passed down through several generations of a Greek American family. Although Eugenides is not intersex it’s apparently loosely based on aspects of his Greek heritage.
But ultimately, what does it matter? People choose to present themselves in all varieties in every aspect and there’s little debate or arguments about this (think, tattoos, body modification, hair styles, attire…). It doesn’t affect you and none of your loyal readers (myself included), and your blood pressure doesn’t need extra stress for such petty, absurdly personal choices that aren’t yours to make.
I’ve mentioned before, neo, that I’ve been reading your blog for more than a decade and that this is one area where I Will fundamentally disagree with you, but I don’t respect you any less for it.
Please give me the same respect.
I’m still waiting for someone to tell me the physical basis of gender. So far, nobody has done it.
Well it wouldn’t matter Leah except for all the lives and dreams being destroyed by the trans madness. Other than that what difference does it make? Intersex imdividusls vs mental afflictions and affectations?
I have a grand nephew that is intersex, he was born as a male, but never developed as one. He chose to become female as he was very feminine looking. However, his/her health is precarious because of all the hormones he will have to take for the rest of his life. He is 40 now and I appreciate how people with his problems choose to change. I do not understand anyone with working, normal sex distinctions choosing to change. I feel great compassion for my nephew and also for those who have been led to believe their mental problems will be cured with a transition to another sex. They have no idea the problems they will encounter.
I can not understand the hysterical trend of so many young girls thinking they should change to male. I find the medical community who are profiting from these young people to be abhorrent.
Leah – unfortunately, it does affect me. Specifically because I have young children who attend a public school that has fully embraced the promotion of transgenderism – for example: allowing biological boys to compete against girls in sports and to use the bathroom right alongside my daughter, promoting books in the elementary school library that claim biology isn’t important, instructing teachers not to “out” their (elementary!) students to the student’s parents and allowing LGBTQ clubs to create “gender affirming” clothing boxes for students who wish to keep their social transition a secret from their parents. I am in full agreement that one can dress and present themselves however they please and it is absolutely none of my business – up to the point that they are forcing their own personal mental illness and/or delusions on to others with an almost guarantee of causing real harm – especially to children.
Its called Hermaphrodite. Intersex is the name of Microsoft’s next Xbox.
To Leah: it affects everyone because all who believe trannyism is OK are pedofiles and by defending it you outed yourself.
@ Chris B-
Not to mention that ‘Middlesex’ is quite a good book, and doesn’t wear out the reader with that intersex business – there’s lots more, including the hilarious insinuation that Elijah Muhammad was really a Greek posing as black.
There was a ridiculous piece in the NYT a few days ago buy someone claiming that because ancient Jewish texts contain discussions of androgyny, that “people who are more than binary have always been recognized by my religion.” Yes, rabbis at the time of the these texts (2nd to 5th century) discussed the phenomenon, and favored compassion, but that has nothing to do with transgenderism today. Those same rabbis absolutely forbade anyone mutilating their bodies, or even wearing clothes of the opposite sex.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/18/opinion/trans-teen-suicide-judaism.html
Sex: male and female. Gender is sex-correlated attributes (e.g. sexual orientation, musculoskeletal structure, lung capacity): masculine and feminine, respectively. Trans- refers to a state or process of divergence.
Pride refers to a parade of lions
Rainbow in the human context is albinophobic, black and brown excluded
Diversity is a color judgment, class-based bigotry, politically congruent philosophy
Pro-Choice is an ethical religion
Normalize, tolerate, or reject?
Transsocial (rare), transgender (rarer), intersex (rarest). Trans/social does not confer advantages over the female sex, neither does trans/homosexual but others classes in the transgender spectrum may, and intersex may also.
Leah:
If it was just adults minding their own business I wouldn’t care. I care when women’s sports become dominated by biological men. But I care much much more when it becomes a fad for children, pushed by social media pressure, and those children get treated medically, sometimes in irreversible ways. Then I care very much.
Oldflyer,
‘I expect that sometime in the future…’
‘Thinking people’ look at it that way now!
@ Neo > “If it was just adults minding their own business I wouldn’t care.”
Indeed.
But, as shana said, a lot of adults ARE NOT minding their own business about this.
They want to make this issue a point of contention, often going to extreme lengths to do so, which shows no respect to anyone who has reservations or concerns about the rampant promotion of gender transitioning.
In this case, satire cuts very close to reality.
https://babylonbee.com/news/teacher-in-need-of-vacation-tells-class-there-are-only-two-genders
The danger extends beyond the damage to the children who are cajoled and sometimes coerced into pharmacological and surgical mutilation (which is not just “tattoos, body modification, hair styles, attire…”).
Well, it is extreme body modification, but I’m assuming that’s not what Leah meant, based on her comment history, which (speaking communally) we have appreciated.*
BUT
Zuby (among others) clearly points out that the underlying agenda is to erase the very concept of a legal age of consent.
Direct link to his video on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/ZubyMusic/status/1618607207372976129
Commentary:
https://notthebee.com/article/zuby-talks-about-the-biggest-concern-with-the-push-to-trans-the-kids
Do I think that this agenda applies to every individual in the world who has made the (hopefully) adult decision to live as the opposite of their natal sex?
No.
Are there people who are pursuing this goal?
Unquestionably, yes. Stories are easily found on the internet.
Zuby also makes the observation that there is a fundamental error in the claim that sex / gender is a spectrum, which ties in well with Wright’s observations.
Direct link to his video on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/ZubyMusic/status/1636587113465405441
Commentary:
https://notthebee.com/article/come-listen-to-zuby-explain-why-transracialism-makes-more-sense-than-transgenderism
*For those who may have missed these comments:
https://www.thenewneo.com/2022/02/23/a-detransitioner-describes-some-of-her-original-motives-for-transitioning/#comment-2609029
https://www.thenewneo.com/2022/03/19/lia-thomas-and-objective-vs-subjective-reality/#comment-2613967
Intersex is a sexual preference, transgender is not.
There is no relation between the two.
The right got that wrong in their blind hatred for anything they don’t understand.
The left got that wrong in their blind intent to push everyone into an ever larger number of boxes defining sexual preferences.
Both sides want everyone to fit into a number of narrowly defined categories, and vilify everyone who doesn’t fit into those boxes.
I’m transgender, the left hates me for not being one of them and not being a sexual deviant. The right hates me for being transgender and not fitting in their definition of transgender people as sexual deviants.
And no, I’m no “drag queen”, those aren’t transgender people, they’re performance artists in the adult entertainment scene.
An interesting commentary / article about the topic of discussion.
See here:
https://lawliberty.org/lying-to-ourselves/
Intersex is not a sexual preference; these are people with biological developmental anomalies. According to the linked article, the incidence is fewer than two in ten thousand.
As Neo says, there’s no reason to “hate” adult transgenders living their lives as best they can without trying to manage other people’s lives.
Thank you, JTW, for that excellent definition of drag queens: “…they’re performance artists in the adult entertainment scene.”
It should be quite easy to draft laws to protect biologically normal children from mutilation while allowing for necessary medical care for intersex children.
Let’s have the new definition of “sexual preference” and “intersex” JTW. Dollars to donuts the new definition has nothing to do with physical characteristics or actual anatomy (or absence of anatomical features).
And of course Drag Queens belong in children’s libraries because there may be adults in there with the children; the adults need to be entertained. Because that is what libraries are; locations of “adult” entertainment. Words are wonderful things.
I’m transgender, the left hates me for not being one of them and not being a sexual deviant. The right hates me for being transgender and not fitting in their definition of transgender people as sexual deviants.
You are too paranoid. The issue is with children who are being pressured by crazy teachers and the demand that everyone celebrate this. I and most of us have no problem with what gays and “transgenders” do with their lives as long as it does not involve children.
@Mike K:The genetics are XY but the phenotype is female. Jamie Lee Curtis, the actress is an example.
LOL this again. Unless you have access to her medical records you have no way to know this. It’s been a rumor spread online and even in college classes, but there is no hard evidence this is true.
Anyone who had seen her medical records, and talked about it to other people without her consent, would have some ethical and legal issues to work through I imagine. At least according to the good folks in Compliance at the health insurance company where I worked.
While I was in college, in the mid-90s, I was introduced to a book called “Making Sex” by Thomas Laqueur which argued through selective narration and citation that the concept of two biological sexes didn’t exist until the 18th century. That book came out in 1992 so academia has been on this train for a long time. People who were born when this book came out are teaching this narrative to college students today.
Hmmm. I seem to remember reading something about that…oh heck, where was it…ah yes, in some book called uh…the Bible, I think…hold on…um, right…
Genesis, Chapters 1 and 2…
(Read it now(!) as it will soon, most likely, be banned by the Wholly Holey Holy Alphabetic Alliance…)
“Or is the goal to disrupt, overturn, radically reorient the nation’s education system? to turn first children then teenagers and finally adults into good revolutionaries?”
The goal very much appears to be to destroy the fabric of our society, presumably in order to usher in a new socialist utopia. Same thing with the DEI movement, reparations, only prosecuting the law abiding, etc. this is dangerous stuff, esp since the elites make it so hard and costly to oppose it.
Neo @ 12:07am: what you said.
I think what we are seeing is quite totalitarian: absolute in its scope (it seeks to control every detail, every action, every utterance, of every one of us), maximalist in its ambitions and strategies, dictatorial, relentless, aggressive, unforgiving, unapologetic, reacting instantly with white-hot fury to every perceived bit of resistance or innocent error.
It angers me but, more importantly, it scares the hell out of me. What kind of society are we allowing them to create?
…with “Biden” working 24/7 to try to defang any potential pushback….
– – – – – – – – – –
Anyway, here’s The Ivy Exile back to puncturing the Narrative…from within.
https://instapundit.com/575611/
Fredrick:
Mike K is older than you and practiced medicine and taught in a medical school (one of them universities) in LA back in the last century. At least that’s how he has explained his insights on this. It has been “revealed” over the last six months or more.
HIPPA didn’t exist back then.
Now you may say, Mike K is just telling tales, but then, this is the internet and you may truly be a canine.
Barry:
But the college textbooks or required reafings of the 1990s don’t recognize the Bible or all those dead people that supposedly built a civilization and culture.
I think the Left’s use of intersex people to try to advance the idea of transgenderism can be easily flipped. What makes people intersex is biological, while transgenderism is based on the idea that a person has a particular gender for reasons that have nothing to do with the body. Someone who uses the existence of intersex people to argue for a “spectrum of gender” has implicitly admitted that gender is biological.
“You are too paranoid. The issue is with children who are being pressured by crazy teachers and the demand that everyone celebrate this.”
hmm, I’ve had death threats from “conservatives”, claiming that all transgender people should be killed because we’re “all pedophiles and an insult to God” or some such.
Many more want all of us locked up for life in insane asylums and subjected to constant electroshock therapy and high doses of psychotropic medication, which is also a death sentence.
Welcome to the right if you’re not fitting into their nice little defined boxes. They’re no better than the left, just the boxes are somewhat different.
@Topo Gigio:I think the Left’s use of intersex people to try to advance the idea of transgenderism can be easily flipped.
Not as easily as you think. They are not bothered by contradiction: they use arguments as soldiers, if you shoot one they have another one.
The reason they raise it is to say biological sex isn’t sufficient to class people as male or female. That they want to use something other than biology is about what they believe, that they try to make a case that biology isn’t as simple as male/female is about what they think you believe.
JTW, no group is immune to having aggressive crazy people among them. Those by whom you have been threatened are fringe nutcases. You should report serious death threats to the police. Threats of violence against conservatives are somewhat more widespread, but still crazy.
First, they forced the Protestant churches to accept them and allow them to marry, thus destroying the church. Then they destroyed our schools and in particular attacked and diminished young boys, using drugs to erase them of any engird or independent spirit. Now they are encouraging needy parents (they do get better jobs) to put their children through body mutilation. How much more do you need to see to know that these people–those who are running the homosexual community, the political managers, etc. are monsters? They are currently focused on destroying the family.