The left explains the Trump voter
I was going to fisk this article on liberal “understanding” of that strange beast, the Trump voter, and the effort to change such voters’ minds. But then after I had read it, and while I was contemplating what to write, I read some of the comments.
At the time I looked at them there were over 4,000 and I only read the first 100 or so. But it was such a truly and deeply depressing experience that I decided to skip writing about the article for the most part and just reproduce some of the comments.
The following ones are not unusual but are instead are instead very typical of what I saw, a never-ending barrage of unyielding contempt, arrogance, rage, and disgust leveled at both Trump voters and for the liberal author who was trying to talk to them. Every now and then there was a slightly less truculent comment to the effect of “well, maybe a few Trump supporters are simply misguided and we in our infinite wisdom might be able to penetrate their abysmal ignorance and help them come over from the dark side,” but those were very few and far between compared to the others.
I suppose the only encouraging thing might be that commenters at the WaPo are a selected bunch of fairly intense partisans. But the hatred expressed was exceptionally chilling.
First, though, here are some excerpts from the article itself, to give you a flavor of that:
“Whatever crimes [Trump] commits, his supporters will be loyal to him,” one buddy wrote on Facebook. “Unwelcome but important fact to face,” the otherwise great writer David Frum tweeted. “Trump absconding with the country’s highest secrets – storing them unsafely – and then lying about returning them – SHOULD have upset his … supporters. It didn’t. If anything, the latest Trump scandal has strengthened Trump’s hold, not only on his core support, but on the broader GOP.”
But is this true? The rapidly forming consensus that Trump’s voters wouldn’t be moved reminded me of many moments over the last six years. Nearly as soon as Trump took over the presidency in 2017, those who dislike him characterized each revelation about his misbehavior — his lies about immigrants, the border wall and the size of his inauguration crowd; his take on white supremacists (“very fine people”); his refusal to accept the 2020 election results; that bonkers time he presented a National Weather Service map that had been adjusted with a Sharpie — as the thing that, finally, ought to turn his fans against him, but also the thing that, bafflingly and heartbreakingly, would not.
The idea, such commentators hold, is that support for him constitutes a religious fervor akin to that of cultists who, when their guru is disrobed, only become more devoted…
I have relatives who voted twice for Trump. I talk with them often. And in conversations, I’ve found them deeply confused and disturbed by the recent events at Mar-a-Lago. They’re troubled by the alleged pilfering of classified documents, by the possibility that Trump’s lawyer lied for him and by the fact that any defense of Trump now has to rest on the claim that he’s stupid.
These are people who blew off early Trump lies as either minuscule or necessary. But they’ve been worn down over time…
It would be too bad if the narrative that Trump’s voters are unreachable hardened completely. Looking back at the polls that supported arguments about Trump’s invulnerability is an odd experience, because many of them just aren’t that dispiriting. If 6 out of 10 Trump voters said they’d never lose confidence in him, 4 out of 10 thought they might. There’s a lot of uncertainty and ambiguity in what Trump’s supporters think, even room for persuasion; they’re less uniform than we like to believe. But we might have to change our minds about them if they start changing theirs. Whether we’re prepared to do that is an open question.
And now let’s turn to a sample of the comments:
the fact that any defense of Trump now has to rest on the claim that he’s stupid”
. . . is a true statement, underlying his most disqualifying attribute – among others, too numerous to squeeze into one sentence – for the job of POTUS.
No matter, he belongs to jail.
That he is seriously supported by the GOP is only a testament to the thoroughly corrupt nature of most members, which is no news.
That he is not dismissed by the general population as a lunatic psychopath is a symptom of the wave of madness of American voters gone insane.
The headline caught my attention… I never knew Trump voters had a mind. I’m still not convinced.
The evidence is plain. Trump brought out the most and the second most voters _ever_ for a Republican presidential candidate. His voter base _increased_ after watching his train wreck of a presidency. His candidates are winning in primaries across the nation, and the majority of Republicans now believe in his facially stupid election lies. The author of this story is Charlie Brown trying to kick the remorseful family Republican football as if she can’t remember Lucy pulling it away some hours/days after Jan 6th. The evidence is clear here. We are dealing with a modern mass hysteria formed on the basis of powerful new technology that completely democratizes communication and “truth” in a political system uniquely flawed in ways that make it possible for the minority to wield so much power via geography. Republicans are in a fear spiral, and the momentum is just too strong for most people to escape. They are going “over the cliff” with Trump, and the only reasonable strategy left for reasonable Americans is to try and outvote those lunatics until they find somewhere else to project their hatred and fear.
In the case of Trump, we’re talking generations that have been “groomed” by the GOP to mistrust government, see liberals as “takers,” socialist degenerates, etc. They’ve been taught to believe lies to the point of voting against their own self-interest on a host of issues. The Big Lie and Trump as victim are just the culmination (for now) of that habituation. Somebody quits the bottle or the crack pipe down every day, but most don’t.
I wouldn’t dismiss the neuroscience so glibly. The studies I’ve seen look pretty persuasive to the effect that there are differences. How closely they map to a subjective thing like ideology, I think is still TBD, but it would help to explain what we see. Pro-science liberals should be OK with the idea, but it also conflicts with the broad notion that we’re not defined by our biology, e.g. race, gender etc. It’s troubling because it conjures up excuses for the worst historical abuses of various groups. Under a fascist regime, the idea that some future no contact brain scan could determine loyalty to the leader is scary indeed. It’s probably not something you want a liberal regime to have either. Of course, Google probably already knows anyway – another reason to be worried about big data and who controls it.
It’s almost certainly not one factor, but more nature+nurture. I think it may be more the GOP nurturing fascist enabling insanity than the nature of their voters, even if they’re predisposed to it. Maybe the fever’s about to break, but I wouldn’t bet on it.
The absence of generosity Trump embodies resonates with many. Be really cheap, mean and greedy – take the chumps. Money: I want my share – all of it.
Democrats were not in the least “humiliated” when Trump won in 2016, we were ENRAGED that Putin and Comey and Roger Stone were able to throw the election to such a tremendously unfit con man. Without losing a single Russian soldier (not that that would keep him up at night) Putin crippled our democracy and installed a useful idiot as president who always gave Putin whatever foreign policy would help Putin the most.
the Trumplets are stupid, scared, resentful. They are spoiled children.
During the last large scale fascist movement, it took utter military defeat in a World War to convince the “true believers” to seriously consider that they might have been wrong. I’m not optimistic that it will be any easier this time.
I think everyone is tired of the “we need to help conservatives while they plot on how to unalive us” rhetoric. The constant parade of media swearing that conservatives and Trump supporters weren’t militant racists, but were “economically anxious” has left nothing in the tank 6+ years on.
Many of us are deeply saddened at how so many on the right have been brainwashed to support leaders who will lead them over the cliff, and are desperately hoping this is just a temporary madness for their sake and for ours. But whether it’s temporary or not, it’s a huge danger to our democracy and we need to take some kind of action.
I suspect the author wants to believe Trump’s followers can still be persuaded because the other options are so hard to accept: 1) we lose to them and our country becomes a autocratic theocracy; 2) we crush them like Sherman on his march to through Georgia; 3) we split up the country and go our separate ways. Frankly, I think the third option is the best one. Not good, but better than the others.
We are in the early stages of an outright civil war, and we need to pull our collective heads out of the sand, face that fact and decide what to do about it. Hoping and waiting for a few more people to leave the cult isn’t really a viable option at this point. We’ve been doing a version of this since this country was first formed, and while some great progress has been made, those opposed to the Enlightenment values this country was founded on have only become more entrenched in their opposition.
Because #3 is geographically impossible, I vote for #2.
Even if they were, finally, to admit that Donald Trump is flawed, too flawed for their continued support, his followers would not change their basic ideology. They would not, could not become “more like us.” Their loyalty would simply shift to another right-wing politician who shares (or pretends to share) their fears, biases, and hatreds and their desire to remake the US in their image: white, Christian, and conservative. Pols such as Florida Governor Ron DeSantis and Texas Governor Greg Abbott know this, which is why they are going over the top trying to out-Trump one another in their statements and policies. Removing Trump himself from the equation, while it might prevent a reprise of his craziest and most criminal behaviors while in office and afterward, would not secure our democracy or the rights of women and racial and sexual minorities, nor would it end the constant barrage of false claims about immigrants, the Black Lives Matter movement, discrimination against white people, or rampant election fraud. The men vying for the Republican presidential nomination have added to those grievances the teaching in public schools of a race-inclusive rendition of US history (which they falsely label “Critical Race Theory”); school and public libraries’ inclusion of books about racism and LGBTQ-related subjects; and the idea of the “great replacement” — that liberals encourage immigration for the purpose of replacing the white, Christian majority in the US with people of other races and faiths who will change the character of our nation and vote for Democratic candidates. If Trump’s supporters should abandon their idol and instead back one of his imitators, the Trumpified Republican Party will present no less danger to the gains that have taken decades to achieve for women, members of BIPOC communities, and sexual minorities or to the survival of our democracy.
Our democracy.
Really quaint and disturbed; the concept of conservatives being “groomers” in one of the WA Compost’s comments.
Projection much?
Not that the left objects to actual grooming and genital mutilation.
Gender Justice!
it really deserves the james downey reproach to billy madison, what crimes, how did putin win the election for trump, meanwhile the cities are on fire, baby formula is a luxury, you can’t travel from state to state, three million illegals including 250 with terrorist records, have slipped into the country,
Trump “took over” the presidency? Sounds like loaded language to me.
It is curious indeed that one of the most ardently-held beliefs of leftists in general (and anti-Trumpians in particular) and one of the most frequently-articulated opinions of those on the right (Trump-supporters or not) are mirror-images of each other. Just as leftists are convinced that only “brain-washing” can explain any adherence to conservatism, so would many on the right (myself included) argue that only a mind completely propagandized into irrationality by the fabrications of the MSM could possibly accept leftism as a legitimate governing philosophy or Biden as a legitimate president when the policies of his administration are so obviously designed to destroy our republic.
we have to absorb most of their mind melting idiocy and still find out the truth, for ourselves, now the polls show the people still think we’re on the wrong track, so this a cargo cult, with a leaky hull,
Who is the author of the column?
These commenters have no idea why Trump was elected, or what motivated, and motivates, his voters. A column which opens with the usual “fine people” lie is an indication of an ignorant take on just about anything.
Is there any reason for the country not to split (yes there are practical obstacles)? The left hates us and holds us in contempt. We are no longer one united country.
I no longer have any hope, or expectation, that the country will remain intact. At this point, what I hope for is a relatively civil divorce (eg like Soviet Union, or Czechoslovakia, rather than Yugoslavia).
Reading those comments is an interesting view into the minds of a certain subset of (likely) mostly white, upper class progressives that make up the bulk of the WaPo’s online readership. Obviously in those comments it’s easy to see all the delusion, irrational thinking, and group think that they accuse Trump supporters of.
It’s actually pretty easy to understand their thinking though. First they start with a single basic axiom:
– Donald Trump is unequivocally evil
Everything else seems to stem from that. When it comes to Trump, there’s absolutely no nuance, equivocation, or doubt at all. He is an absolute, irreducible, fundemental element in their mental Universe. Depressingly, it really is a simple as “Orange Man Bad”. It’s a tautolgy. Trump is evil because Trump he is evil. Therefore, his supporters are mostly evil and also mostly stupid.
It is no accident that the party of compulsive, habitual, and reflexive lying must focus on how dishonest Donald Trump is. OK, some of the pols and pundits on the left actually believe what they are saying some of the time. Not that often IMO.
mirror images of each other. — j e
I concur.
_____
Their loyalty would simply shift to another right-wing politician who shares (or pretends to share) their fears, biases, and hatreds and their desire to remake the US in their image: white, Christian, and conservative. Pols such as Florida Governor Ron DeSantis.
I went through this some weeks ago with a close but hard left friend who began by querying, “You don’t support Trump do you?” I chickened out slightly by saying I’d rather see DeSantis as the candidate, which is more or less true. Then I attempted to gently nudge her biases by saying, “Just wait and see. If DeSantis gains in popularity, then the people you listen to will pull out all the stops to make him seem radioactive.”
The problem with that whole approach is that I was probably too late. I imagine she already thinks DeSantis is radioactive.
I think this must be some kind of psy-op, founded on the deception that the exculpatory nature of the Mueller Report has never been properly acknowledged by the media. This is the real “Big Lie”!
I complained months ago to a family member that no media persons who said repeatedly that “the walls are closing in” had ever said “Oops! I guess we were wrong!” I was shocked when she claimed the Mueller Report did not exonerate Trump! There was no point in continuing the conversation.
A few days ago, in an AP article, Ross Douthat basically conceded that Trump had been the victim of a leftist conspiracy in the Russiagate scheme. He said the lesson from this is that the FBI needs to be sure they get him dead-to-rights this time!
Another personality I recall claimed that Trump “admitted” that he was a Russian agent by asking, during a public speech, if the Russians would release the Hillary emails if they had them! An unusual spy channel, that! Who needs invisible ink?
I think what we are seeing is the evidence that thought control works!
We also have to consider the possibility that the comments were edited, with contrary points of view removed, or that some or many are astro-turf plants. Although, I’d admit the latter is probably unnecessary.
You want to address “white supremacists (‘very fine people’)?” Comment deleted.
Is it possible that the hatred and contempt directed at Trump and his supporters is motivated by fear? Fear of what, I’m not sure.
meanwhile actual reality intrudes,
https://twitter.com/ELINTNews/status/1562497420918853633?cxt=HHwWgsCohYfIja8rAAAA
TommyJay said at 2:28 pm: The problem with that whole approach is that I was probably too late. I imagine she already thinks DeSantis is radioactive.
Have you seen DeSantis’ new “Top Gov” ad? Your friend’s head would probably explode:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epwnsVTM-YA&ab_channel=RonDeSantis
David Frum claims we don’t care that Trump stole classified information. Well, Dave that’s because we don’t clutch our pearls every time a Biden flack says “classified”, and because we’re pretty sure that the information Trump wanted to snag was about the FBI’s dirty FISA tricks! THATS why the Intel community’s knickers are in a knot!
the kerfluffle the other day, was about manafort admitting he had given some information to his business partner deripaska, info that was more accurate then hillary’s polls, that’s why they had to rig the vote the next time with unverifiable mail ballots, after probably stealing the governorships in two states, and consent decrees in arizona and georgia,
PA Cat,
Yes. I saw just the tail end of that DeSantis ad and I thought it was cute and possibly effective that he was trying to leverage of the popularity of the new Top Gun film. Then Miguel or someone posted the whole ad a day or two ago. Very nice.
She was a marcher in the “Women’s March” some years ago and she had her p***y hat on. Never mind that that one of the founders of the March is a supporter of Louis Farrakhan. I’m sure she did not know that. I’ve ceased to be surprised at the vast level of ignorance.
My house guest just left. He prides himself with the quantity of his readings (true) and his supposed accuracy since he finds primary sources (less true). I mentioned Peter Strzok. Who’s that??
Agree with j e and TommyJay on the mirror image. There are many commentaries on the right I’ll avoid. Even reading through Instapundit comments is often tough, although the voting helps. What is depressing is that both sides are committed to their beliefs, and while I may tend to agree with those on the right on things like “Hillary broke the law in mishandling classified data, and Trump did not” or “Hunter Biden’s laptop is a real thing and the Steele Dossier was the product of a corrupt British spy talking to two drunk Russians at a bar”; it doesn’t do much to simply say, “yeah, but Hillary should be in jail” in what is meant to be a debate of ideas.
Two things end up happening, as I see it; 1) both sides paint themselves into a corner in which a civil war might be the only option out, and 2) more important issues such as increasing national debt, poor quality education, and foreign policy get ignored. I’m pissed about the Mar-a-lago raid, but its personal effect to me is much less than the passage of the “Inflation Reduction Act”. Yeah, “one day they’ll come for you too” can happen, but only after all my less well-off friends, family, and neighbors are destroyed by inflation.
But it is getting hard to push back. Within neo’s comment area, I defended a more moderate Dan Crenshaw when it mattered prior to the primary. Since then, I’ve heard more of what he has to say, particularly in regards to Trump and Jan. 6th. Crenshaw is a disappointment that unfortunately will get two more years. Those who were more to the right of me were correct about Crenshaw’s duplicity. You can see it most recently in his tweets comparing “defund the FBI” to “defund the police”; which he has since tried to walk back by pointing out that perhaps the FBI did go too far. Dan, the FBI’s track record for the past decade, particularly the division investigating Trump, is dismal. At what point do we cut losses on such poor performance?
Decades ago, when I was still a Democrat, but made up my own mind on politics, I saw that many Democrats/liberals/progressives were “smug,sneering, condescending and self-righteous.” Looks like there are a lot of Democrats/liberals/progressives out there who are doing their best to confirm my view.
I can think of some relatives who fit that category- though among my relatives from North to South, from East to West, from metro to the sticks, I’d say they are split about 50-50 between the 2 parties.
Nonapod
Correction: “upper middle class progressives.” Granted, they have an upper-class sneer at the hoi polloi, but they are for the most part upper middle class.
It’s a good exercise to read leftist comments on any site that is considered moderate– this is what you get, though usually more directed against the evil Trump. Yes, you can only take so much of it, and it’s saddening to see how well the left has indoctrinated the country through the institutions.
“We are in the early stages of an outright civil war, and we need to pull our collective heads out of the sand, face that fact and decide what to do about it. Hoping and waiting for a few more people to leave the cult isn’t really a viable option at this point. We’ve been doing a version of this since this country was first formed, and while some great progress has been made, those opposed to the Enlightenment values this country was founded on have only become more entrenched in their opposition.”
A couple of problems here. They’ve been waiting for more people to leave the cult since the country was first formed? Strike anyone as nonsensical?
No less than- “Enlightenment values this country was founded on”. No wonder they’re calling for stomping on the constitution, if this is what they believe, since that very document stands in opposition to their imaginary enlightenment values.
I’ve said it before, there is a veil falling on this country. We have lost our way. As the principles this country was founded on– Judeo-Christian morality have been discarded, what is left is a rise of materialism and an enlightenment with Marx as its savior.
A tribe of posers performing for each other, in a dirty bubble, floating on a swamp of bile.
It’s the WaPo, Neo.
Expecting anything other than the position of a drooling liberal idiot in the comments is like expecting the starving winter wolf to sit down with you and lick a pat of butter with some tasty carrots.
Those commenters show us that they believe absurdities. Voltaire said they will commit atrocities. Keep your powder dry.
“You don’t support Trump do you?”
I don’t support the fictional Trump that Trump haters believe in. Their views were mostly formed before he was sworn in. His abrasive campaign style made it hard to predict what he would do if elected. That’s the point at which most of the haters stopped paying attention. But their impatience is their disfunction – not mine.
The Trump I support is the one whose actions in office make him the best president in my adult lifetime. I only got to that point by watching what he did and letting his actions interpret his words.
All the Trump haters I know of never got to the watching phase. They were already on emotional overload when he took office. Pity. They missed a great show.
My house guest just left. He prides himself with the quantity of his readings (true) and his supposed accuracy since he finds primary sources (less true). I mentioned Peter Strzok. Who’s that??
And yet, he votes.
Their ignorance is truly astounding, isn’t it?
And they are so very sure that they know it all.
“Those commenters show us that they believe absurdities.”
And those comments show they think we also believe absurdities. There is no middle ground anymore. I’m hoping divorce is the good option, but even that looks like an opportunity for the CCP, and others to swoop in. For the past 4 years we’ve been heading in this bad direction, and I think the pandemic pushed a lot of people over the edge mentally. I just can’t see this ending well.
A few days ago, in an AP article, Ross Douthat basically conceded that Trump had been the victim of a leftist conspiracy in the Russiagate scheme. He said the lesson from this is that the FBI needs to be sure they get him dead-to-rights this time!
Douthat is a chronically ill man who takes a salary from the Sulzberger Birdcage Liner. There’s a limit to how much truth he can tell. He’s less of a shill than David Brooks.
Banned Lizard on August 24, 2022 at 3:31 pm sums it up perfectly (emphasis added):
“The Trump I support is the one whose actions in office make him the best president in my adult lifetime. I only got to that point by watching what he did and letting his actions interpret his words.
“All the Trump haters I know of never got to the watching phase. They were already on emotional overload when he took office. Pity. They missed a great show.”
Evidenced by the Inauguration Day 2017 riots in Washington, D.C. (See, e.g., https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/inauguration-2017/washington-faces-more-anti-trump-protests-after-day-rage-n709946)
Apparently a typical view of those who hate Trump and us:
“after watching his train wreck of a presidency”
Democrats/today’s liberals/progressives are either liars, or live in an alternate universe, or both.
But for our local, state and federal responses to COVID. all of which were undermined by Democrats (see, for example, Nancy Pelosi’s visit to SF’s Chinatown), and to the BLM riots (which were encouraged by Democrats, today’s liberals, and progressives), in just what way was the Trump presidency a “train wreck”?
“They’re not after me, they’re after you. I’m just in the way.” PDJT
That is a useful thing for us to remember. Living in a deep blue zone, I hear things all the time out and about, in dinner parties and other social occasions that do not differ in any material way from the commenters on this article. “Mayberry” is the new dog whistle name for this place where apparently great unwashed masses of the ignoranti support Trump and his policies. They have tried to explain, give us info, but still we resist. The time for forging a modus vivendi is over for them.
They show no desire to find a way forward, to work together, etc. The understanding has spread to many/most of them that WE elected Trump and therefore WE are the problem. All they are trying to work out now are the mechanics of the repression – destroy their educational prospects, limit their job advancement, unbank them, shun them, SWAT them, work on their wives/GFs to blackmail them into compliance. And they don’t want to give up Florida as a winter destination if they can help it.
I saw an article in RealClearPolitics this morning by Robert Reich. I can barely stomach reading anything by him or Paul Krugman so I didn’t read it all, but the headline was something about the changes at CNN being politically motivated.
In it he says, “As Republicans move further rightward into the netherworld of authoritarianism…” I stopped reading there.
WHERE does this come from? Have you read anyone specify in what way they are authoritarian? Or more authoritarian than progressives, who, in my book are horribly so?
I’m literally astounded at the level of projection I see from the left.
Reading your post, neo, it hit me that very little of their derision has to do with Donald Trump, the man. He’s an easy target, and it’s easy to cite quotes or behavior by DJT to reinforce their opinions, but one can do that with anyone who has been in the public eye as long as DJT has. And DJT loves the spotlight, so there is always a wealth of material to draw from in his case.
But they hated Romney and Ryan and McCain and Palin (especially Palin!) and Bush and Cheney (until his daughter became a Democrat) and Bush and Quayle and Reagan (they really hated Reagan). And they hated all of them for nearly identical reasons that they list for hating Trump; dumb, boorish, unsophisticated (the Prescott Bush’s of Kennebunkport!), bumbling us into war, war mongers, greedy, in the pockets of Wall Street/defense contractors… The adjectives are the same no matter who is running, or in office.
Exactly the same.
All that changes is the degree of their hatred and it is directly proportional to the level of success the individual has halting or reversing their preferred policies*. That’s all it is. It’s ad hominem they attach to quotes and policies to convince themselves they are using logic and reason, rather than emotion.
*And they especially hate anyone who is able to irrefutably prove their opinions are wrong. Trump leading us to energy independence AND reducing CO2 emissions. DeSantis not locking down or masking students and having as good or better COVID outcomes than other Governors. Those people must be hated into submission and irrelevance.
She’s a Yale graduate who has traveled around South Africa a great deal.
Gonna have to paraphrase Orwell again…
“In a time of utter insanity, trying one’s best to remain sane is a revolutionary act.”
– – – – – – – – –
And, along with those several other commenters, I am in total agreement with Banned Lizard’s excellently-construed “formula” of the two Trumps: the Trump of the Left’s 24/7 HATE; and the Trump of defiance and achievement in the face of constant attack and persecution, never-ending slander and subterfuge.
(Having voiced such agreement, however, I unfortunately don’t believe that ANY explanation, no matter how reasonable, no matter how factual, no matter how truthful…will be effectively persuasive at this point. The only thing that MIGHT unite the nation is some significant external catastrophe; but even that is doubtful…. Very much wish I could be more optimistic on this score.)
I seem to remember being regularly called “complicit” in Trump alleged crimes. Simply for disagreeing with the left’s take on…well just about anything.
The fad of using it often seems to have faded away. But the implied meaning behind it has not.
Trump his evil. His existence is a crime. And anyone who does not view the world through that very specific lens. Shares in his guilt.
I do not like Trump. I think he is a ridiculous pompous blowhard. But his policies are orders of magnitude more sane than the ones the left,media etc propose. What is worse is they seem completely unable to decouple the man from his policies.
It makes me wonder how much of that particular issue is on purpose. And how much is actual ignorance. I have no desire to defend Trump on a wide variety of his personal peccadillo’s. I resent generally having to ignore them simply because the alternative is the mayhem and incompetence we see now on a daily basis
Alas if it WERE ONLY “mayhem and incompetence”….
To the contrary, it is SABOTAGE and DESTRUCTION on a grander than grand scale.
– – – – – – –
Oops! (again)…
“…some significant external catastrophe…”
should be:
“…some significant EXTERNALLY-CAUSED catastrophe…”
Those WaPo commenters are the sort of people who literally think the United States is made up of about a dozen major cities and a couple dozen more vacation sites and national landmarks and the only residents are their friends and everyone they follow on social media. They think the U.S. is like the best possible version of Norway or something.
Mike
I too was once suspicious of the Left. I still am – I see problems with the Left and disagree very much with many of the Biden policies.
What has made me less suspicious? It is the reflexive blindness to the dangers that ALSO exist elsewhere.
It is the tendency to overlook, deflect, excuse and forgive things that, were it from the Left, would cause a tidal wave of criticism. Instead, largely crickets. Doublethink (or is that Duckspeak) in action.
Either you actually want a democracy (like you say and imply), or you don’t value it much at all. Your myopic focus belies your intent. “Team” above all else it seems.
I’ve read many Neo articles about her conversion to conservatism (or was it revulsion of leftism). Not much to disagree on what her perception was then. I’ve seen much the same.
I have since gone through a similar change. Well, not quite.
It is not that I left conservatism. It is seeing all those who said they value things that were core to conservatism, but have somehow forgot all that in pursuit of power for “their side”.
I can no longer be a “conservative” in the conventional sense. The old label’s meaning has been betrayed and co-opted, by those who have fully adopted the newspeak and tactics we thought was the domain of the deprived Left.
Much of this blog is now a series of two minute hates of the Left.
If every problem is with the Left and never much to be said about what “your side” is doing, well, you lose complete credibility with people who truly value the old core principles that “your team” merely gives lip service to.
There is a way out of this, but your heads are so up your Flight 93 crevices that you are not seeing the destruction you are condoning.
Democracy REQUIRES reaching out to people who may disagree with you.
You cannot have power or have it your way 100% of the time.
Check out the other places in the world where it is like that, or they attempt to make it like that. Would you want to live there?
Your choice.
If you truly believe in (what was) the core conservative principles, a starting place is to refrain from giving power to people who are telling you want they think you want to hear. (From politicians to media sources).
If they’ve clearly lied many times big and small, then for gosh sake, don’t believe them anymore on the next several.
For politicians – saying things is easy. Challenge them on policy. Challenge them on how to get there from here. If they give you an answer that implies it is easy peasy, forget them.
Be wary of performative legislation / proposals / even statements. Does it fit with stated principles? Will it be effective? Or, does it seem more for show – more to draw out a reaction from the Left and drive Right-wing media buzz. If so, they are blowing smoke up you know where.
If they focus on conspiracies and fanciful explanations for the what and why things are as they are – Ask them for concrete proof.
Until someone on the team starts holding these people to a standard, all kinds of wild explanations will come and go like water, as will your credibility if you keep buying each iteration.
If people around you are sharing or rallying around nonsensical explanations, check for the exits. Trust your own logic, if you still can.
Stop applying litmus tests that have nothing to do with policy positions. After all, it is the policy that you want to have implemented, right?
Don’t get so emotionally wound up about the Left that you will condone anything to defeat them, and not hold your side to any accountability.
Will any of that be hard for you to do, dear reader?
Non-sequiturs Sans Frontieres?
BM on August 24, 2022 at 4:59 pm: Thanks for the empty platitudes.
BM sez, of the right: “…it is the tendency to overlook, deflect, excuse and forgive things that, were it from the Left, would cause a tidal wave of criticism.”
Which things Bm?
“If they focus on conspiracies and fanciful explanations for the what and why things are as they are – Ask them for concrete proof. ” -BM
Seriously? This is your justification for being open to the left?
I seem to recall a four year mass delusion about Russian collusion,hookers,urine and mattresses. That at nearly every turn was reinforced by daily leaks of supposed “facts”. That turned out to be complete and utter bullshit.
Hell the day before the Mueller report a previous director of the CIA went so far as declaring that this was finally the end of Trump.
So if your goal was an epic troll job. You have succeeded quite well. If it was to try to convince others to your view of well.. anything. I think you probably have failed. Simply by the lack of any serious self-reflection on the issue.
Wow, BM. Have you really hung around Neo’s blog very much?
I don’t think there are any (I may be wrong) here who have ever expressed total agreement with all things conservative, and certainly there is not a whole lot of total support of the GOP.
“Either you actually want a democracy (like you say and imply), or you don’t value it much at all.” Actually I don’t value democracy at all. It’s a terrible system that leads to chaos. I value a representative republic. You don’t seem to have much of an understanding of basic conservative thinking.
“Democracy REQUIRES reaching out to people who may disagree with you. ” There’s that “D” word again. Again, have you really read this blog? Many of us over many years have tried to “reach out” to those people and have been met with the hate and vitriol seen in those quotes above. One example from my past as a college professor: I engaged in an on going debate with a student in the student newspaper concerning “climate change”. I presented data, made physical arguments, and NEVER engaged in ad hominem attacks. Guess what happened to me? Faculty, students, and even alums called me every name in the book with no rational response to my statements. Even had one alum call the president to demand I be fired for not “being a real scientist”.
That’s enough for me for now, I’m sure others will respond to your comment.
BM – the new improved Concern Troll, still waxy and faux, but now with 200% more pure unadulterated Reconstituted Catfish Whiskers.
Totally wholesome and wise.
David,
I seem to remember hearing the term “unprecedented” to describe nearly any action Trump took.
Only to find out that more often than not. There was not only precedent. But his actions were considered routine for most POTUS.
I get the impression the left thinks we’re like they are; hate first, evidence to follow or be manufactured.
I didn’t like Trump. I don’t like overbearing people in general.
Initially, I was for a Cruz/Fiorina ticket but then I figured….the dems CANNOT win, having put Hillary up and C/F were too establishment to increase the enthusiasm and vote count.
I was pleased with Trump’s policies. We did far better with him than simply avoid Hillary.
So I’m not a Trumpist, or whatever the term is.
OTOH, I do defend him from lies.
Our church had an organized discussion group–about a dozen to start–and it was there; Trump hate and falsehoods believed most sincerely. A couple of us were in a position to dispose of the lies and the disappointment was palpable. Nothing changed.
Happened to mention how the Thalys train heroes showed up in Polos and Dockers for their awards in France. Thought it was funny. The other person immediately triggered to the Charlottesville riot. No problem with the Floyd riots. Never heard of them, I suppose.
Also talking to a relation about guns. How to disarm criminals? Made it 100%. Never, ever, not even one percent of the time watching panel discussions on television, live with others, anywhere, written pieces….does a gun grabber engage with the question. Always deflect. Such unanimity is amazing. So, BM, I’m “reaching out” and finding….what?
I ask for evidence Trump is a racist…… I figure that’s reaching out. Got nothing.
Homophobe….? Ditto.
We are doomed as a united nation. I mostly blame public schools turning out Marxist theologians. Next is how the almost entire media is a Leftist Propaganda Ministry. Eventually the Democrat/ Marxists will turn us into a 3rd world Hell hoke without food, medicine or energy all to bow to Gaia part of their religion and power grab.
LoL, I totally took the troll bait.
Had some nasty FB exchanges about the college debt payoff. Put me in a fighting mood.
“It is not that I left conservatism. It is seeing all those who said they value things that were core to conservatism, but have somehow forgot all that in pursuit of power for “their side”.”
Donald Trump was, policy-wise, the most “conservative” President in modern memory. The only thing he really wasn’t “conservative” on was spending and the budget but he wasn’t any worse on that than the Bushes or Reagan.
Mike
America’s red and blue counties are too intertwined, that pragmatic obstacle makes secession unachievable.
The fanaticism of the deeply indoctrinated are lost to reason, logic and fact. Their broken moral compass is fixed upon reaching their utopia, one of always having their way in all things. An end that justifies whatever means are necessary.
The actual end that their fanaticism prevented foreseeing is the external reality that pursuit of a utopian future is bringing into fruition. Collapsing economies, civilizational decline, blackouts and famine. History demonstrates that war and pestilence will follow.
“I’m literally astounded at the level of projection I see from the left. gwynmir
The projection is coming from the True Believer “useful idiots” on the left. Many of the influential on the left, the Schumers, the Pelosis, the Schiffs, the Soros etc. know full well that they are lying. For them, projection is a tool used to manipulate the rubes in pursuit of the power that control brings.
@ Ray Van Dune: There was no point in continuing the conversation.
Indeed. Sigh.
I live in a blue bubble within a reddish county in a somewhat purplish state, so things are not quite as bad as when I lived in a deep blue bubble in a deep blue state. But all my closest friends, here and elsewhere, subscribe to the hateful projections transcribed from these Washington Post comments.
At social gatherings, I just let my friends carry on with what I silently call their Trump Tourette’s syndrome and remind myself of what Solzhenitsyn said: that we may be surrounded by lies, but we don’t have to let the lies come through us.
Last night one of my very nearest and dearest mentioned that a number of winners in this year’s Republican gubernatorial primaries are “election deniers.”
I asked, “What’s an election denier?”
She gave me the (Democratic) party line, whereupon I asked, “What do you call Stacey Abrams? Al Gore? Hillary Clinton?”
We quickly changed the subject.
If I am absolutely pressed, the most I will say is this: “Joe Biden was inaugurated, so he’s the president. But I’m not sure he was elected. If Donald Trump had been inaugurated for a second term, I couldn’t be sure he had been elected, either. That uncertainty is a feature of our elections, and it’s intentional.”
This approach allows me to speak a general truth without saying that I believe Joe Biden to be the unelected puppet of Barack Obama, of the third- and fourth-string lackeys carrying out Obama’s third term, and of whoever is pulling Obama’s strings.
As Ray Van Dune noted, no point in continuing.
This writer very obviously is a supporter of Joe Biden.
Did she have any problems with Joe’s known lies including but not limited to cribbing his family history from an Englishman?
Is she at all troubled by the reasonably obvious evidence of crimes not just of Hunter but of Joe that are on Hunters laptop?
Is she concerned at all with his obvious mental decline that was obvious even during the 2020 campaign?
What about the commenters whose only liberalism is the liberal use of calling everyone on the other side Nazis.
These people act as though they are rational decision makers carefully looking at the big picture and being filled with the wisdom of Solomon. However most of them can’t come up with a working definition of woman that isn’t just woman.
I am actively trying to learn to laugh out loud when confronted by these people rather that be overcome by rage. It is difficult because they are so dangerous but I think it is a way to undermine them.
I wonder how they would have covered it in the WP, if when Senator Blackburn asked Ketanji Brown Jackson to define “woman” and she wouldn’t, the whole of the Republican caucus would have laughed at her.
They are ridiculous and need to be laughed at often.
Barry Meislin (4:21 pm) writes, “The only thing that MIGHT unite the nation is some significant externally-caused catastrophe; but even that is doubtful.”
It takes me back to September 12th, 2001 or thereabouts, when a group of Congresscritters, bipartisan I do believe, gathered together on the steps of the Capitol Building (or was it the steps of the Supreme Court building? not important), and all raised voices in singing “The Star-Spangled Banner” — or was it “America The Beautiful”, or was it “God Bless America” [perish *that* thought, but never mind]?
That delicious Kumbaya “unity” lasted mere figurative minutes. And then it was straight back to Bushitler etc. as usual.
These ‘progressive woke’ folks are the most hate filled people I have ever encountered.
“America’s red and blue counties are too intertwined, that pragmatic obstacle makes secession unachievable.”
Not everybody in the American Colonies favored independence. Not everyone in the South favored succession.
Mike
BM:
It also helps when you criticize to give examples. Specific examples.
Then perhaps your arguments would gain more respect. It also would help to use the moniker you used when you used to comment here more often, so people can place you.
And it is puzzling that you write “Either you actually want a democracy (like you say and imply), or you don’t value it much at all” if you’ve actually been reading here at all. If you were indeed a conservative at one point, surely you know that there’s a reason why Democrats are called Democrats and Republicans are known as Republicans. In fact, two days ago I wrote a post that refers to that issue. Here’s an excerpt (the NY Times op-ed I’m referring to was a proposal by two leftist law professors to divide Washington DC into one district and 127 states of the union):
If half the people in the country voted for Trump and yet these people don’t know any better than what they say in this article that means they will not listen to anyone who disagrees with them. They are living in a strong delusion and willingly blind.
Heard the execrable Charlie Crist talking about what a great President Biden is. Claims he brought NATO together and added two members! What a fatuous idiot!
1. Trump fought the fight to get NATO members to pony up a serious contribution, for which he was said to be destroying the alliance by the gutless Dems. That’s why when Russia attacked, NATO had finally grown a pair! And they’re going to find out more about Trump’s foresight this winter, aren’t they?!
2. NATO gained members Sweden and Finland BECAUSE Russia attacked. Had Trump been at the helm, Putin would have never dared it, and those countries would have continued to sleepwalk.
Bottom line: Trump’s policies paid off in spades, even after Biden’s cupidity invited war!!
neo:
So “BM” is the new handle for “Big Maq” of old?
Martin: It is good to laugh rather than rage. I have been getting a good chuckle myself recently-with regard to the fbi raid- thinking about them all going “We got him this time! We really got him!!” I imagine it in the voices of the Sheriff and Deputy from Dukes of Hazard 🙂
Reads like the inner thoughts of the last person standing drinking the last cup of KoolAid at Jonestown.
and the partying finnish princess, is the spear of the effort, yes i’m sure there are ruthless warfighters in the finnish army, but those are exactly who the government and the culture despises in that country,
they gave up the nuclear dodge, and now they dimly whisper about sap, which they waited monthes to exfiltrate from the mansion,
neo (6:35 pm) suggests to BM, “It also helps when you criticize to give examples. Specific examples. Then perhaps your arguments would gain more respect.”
Thanks, neo, for the interjection. Many/most of us would very much like for the other side to engage us in *respectful* conversation. (Errrmmm, BM’s “your heads are so up your Flight 93 crevices that you are not seeing the destruction you are condoning” is not helpful in this regard.)
And I may as well add to *respectful* conversation, *informed* conversation.
I for one welcome commenters like BM to our forum; there are plenty of echo chambers out there, and this forum can only be enhanced with participation by respectful, informed commenters**. Okay, BM, that applies to our side as well.
** even if they turn out to be concern trolls; gotta luv ’em
we must exist, you cannot,
https://t.me/The_Library_II/84243
om
So “BM” is the new handle for “Big Maq” of old?
Could be. Given what my mother used “BM” for in my childhood days (uh one and uh two), I wonder why anyone would use “BM” for a blog name. I am reminded of some lefty commenter, wanting to be considered cosmopolitan and/or multicultural, who used “Vivo” as a blog name. Apparently the lefty commenter didn’t realize that in addition to “lively,” Spanish slang-not always found in standard translation dictionaries- uses “Vivo” as another way of saying scam artist.
The very idea if democracy in the world we live in now, with the culture controlled by the Media, entertainment industry, and perhaps the most pathetically, ” influencers “, being able to herd the populace like sheep, is very frightening.
But I think the Democrats are very aptly named, they really do seem to want mob rule. They certainly seems to be able to call on mobs, as needed. And all the mob wants in return, is Bread and Circuses.
I recall that some liberals didn’t like Trump because he wasn’t ideological, therefore they didn’t know what he would do.
If you look back to what he was saying 40 years ago, he was very consistent. America’s leadership made bad trade deals/treaties/alliances that favored other nations to the detriment of Ameria and its people.
That core principle informed the policies he advanced. I know it’s so simple, so common sensical, it so lacks the think tank sophistication that has entangled America for so many years– it’s not nearly devious enough to be true.
We never expected a politician to make a declarative statement of intent and then work to implement it.
As a businessman, he’s very transactional.
It’s not that hard.
Ps. I can’t wait to watch DiSantis mop the floor with Charlie Crist, whose most genuine feature is his fake tan!
MollyG,
” Trump Tourette’s syndrome…”
Gosh, that’s good. And very accurate. I will borrow that phrase, if you don’t mind. It’s a perfect depiction of how many behave.
Evil people say and do and believe evil notions.
These liberals aren’t evil because of their political preferences. They are evil because of the vile hate they spew, the evil in their hearts and the evil actions they endorse.
Martin @ 6:15pm,
I find myself laughing out loud as a response more often. I’m working on being more open and truthful and, truthfully, I find much of what folks say and believe incomprehensible, and funny. A laugh and then repeating back a concise synthesis of their statement does sometimes lead to deeper thought before they continue to speak.
Our democracy.
What’s so wonderful about democracy, anyway? Why should I like being ruled by my neighbors better than being ruled by a hereditary monarch?
“Not everybody in the American Colonies favored independence. Not everyone in the South favored succession. Mike
While true that offers exceedingly violent examples of settling a fundamental difference of opinion through massive numbers of deaths.
The civil war resulted in far more deaths than did the revolution. It’s probable that a second civil war would result in a much higher death toll than the first.
I trust we all wish to avoid that eventuality. If for no other reason than that the majority of the survivors would have a severe case of PTSD.
But that begs the question; will the left allow any other outcome?
Reading comments at the WaPo is always depressing, there is little variety to be found, just different ways to express the same opinion. Any hope I have for the future of this country depends on enough people outside of our elites having a bit of sanity. It is an uneven fight, power currently resides with the crazies, and the outcome is far from certain.
> chilling
Agree 100% Neo
What’s tragic is the why.
What’s frustrating is the lack of recognition by the eGOP of the cultural issues that allow this. The actions by the “resistance”against Trump, and how the eGOP aided and abetted it, shocked me.
It is very, very depressing. In today’s Financial Times, there was a column by Martin Wolf that expressed views pretty similar to a lot of these commenters, perhaps slightly less crazy.
I think there are multiple motivations for this kind of thinking. In some cases, it’s mainly mean-ness: there are a fair number of people who enjoy the opportunity of behaving viciously toward designated, safe-to-attach enemies while reinforcing their own membership in their Tribe. See my post Conformity, Cruelty, and Political Activism:
https://chicagoboyz.net/archives/57600.html
But, at a guess, not more than maybe 20% of the fanatical anti-Trumpers (which often also means anti-Trump-voters) fall firmly in the above category. What of the others?
It is very hard to understand the motivations and reasoning in many cases, but essential to do so if we are to have any hope of changing minds.
Charlie Crist begins (or is it continues?) the neutron bombardment of DeSantis. (Creating radioactivity.) What a surprise. Dare I conjecture that the point of Crist’s campaign is not to attempt to win the governorship, but rather to smear DeSantis and damage his presidential prospects?
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/08/24/charlie-crist-insults-millions-floridians-desantis-supporters-have-hate-heart-i-dont-want-your-vote/
I blame it on twitter. The worst form of communication ever devised. It rewards snarky, cruel epithets.
No serious discussion can occur in 280 characters.
And it effects nearly every comment section in every discussion. I follow various forms of auto racing (except Nascar) and even there it quickly turns into an accident of insults.
It’s made our culture cruder and crueler.
I thought we got over the psychoanalyzing of political opponents. People vote based on their interests, and when that’s not the whole truth they vote based on their identity, affiliations, and self-image.
If one is going to say that other side has been “groomed” by their media, what makes one think that one’s own side — including oneself — hasn’t also been “groomed” by the media they read? But commenters on the WAPO website are the least likely people to recognize that.
In this case, we don’t know how many classified documents were still in the house when it was raided and whether they were still classified, and whether other presidents took formerly classified documents with them when they left office. There are so many other unanswered question. Why the raid if Trump was already sending documents to he National Archives? Couldn’t this have been handled less sensationally? What else was the FBI looking for? Then there are all the other revelations about FBI and DOJ conduct lately. So why would this upend anyone’s opinion of Trump? It’s more a fishing investigation than the discovery of anything damning, and it’s conducted by people we’ve good reason not to trust.
that many Democrats/liberals/progressives were “smug,sneering, condescending and self-righteous.”
I had the same impression back around 1992 when I attended a meeting of local ACLU members. It was apparent to me that that marriage could not last much longer, there would be a divorce in my future.
Jack_of_Spades on August 24, 2022 at 2:41 pm said:
Is it possible that the hatred and contempt directed at Trump and his supporters is motivated by fear? Fear of what, I’m not sure.
Fear of reality. To quote another commenter at BillWhittle.com from a year ago or more: “Reality Is Not Optional” Fear that eventually they will run out of other people’s money; fear TANSTAAFL; fear that renewables really won’t solve the CO2, energy, or environmental issues; fear that SS and Medicare will not be there for them; fear that we really are bankrupt but just can’t admit it; etc.
@ stan > “These liberals aren’t evil because of their political preferences”
Many of those preferences flow from their evilness.
People who sign onto those policies later, for whatever “good” reasons, are dragged into the evil regardless of their intent.
It’s a reinforcing cycle.
I have not read a full WaPo column in ages because of the paywall.
I don’t intend to read any in the future, unless I really want to see what the Democrats are thinking.
This is an example of what they are deluged with daily, so no wonder the comments are unhinged.
No amount of debunking the lies seems to stick with them; based on the NYT defamation of Sarah Palin, the constant re-iteration of exploded claims is deliberate.
It’s not just two ways of looking at a movie; it’s two different films in theaters 1000 miles apart.
BTW, the deliberate lying caught up with some of them finally.
https://thefederalist.com/2022/08/23/roy-moores-defamation-case-victory-sends-a-message-about-the-actual-malice-standard/
@ Neo > “Every now and then there was a slightly less truculent comment to the effect of “well, maybe a few Trump supporters are simply misguided and we in our infinite wisdom might be able to penetrate their abysmal ignorance and help them come over from the dark side,” but those were very few and far between compared to the others.”
There is no quarter given for even the most paltry signs of tolerance.
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/08/24/cnns-jake-tapper-in-the-doghouse-after-sharing-a-piece-by-salena-zito/
Brian E’s comment on another thread is relevant here.
https://www.thenewneo.com/2022/08/24/yesterdays-voting-results/#comment-2639116
“Even if there was a source of news to break through the fog of propaganda with a reality check, deprogramming takes time.”
Wow.
So much thinking with so little wisdom.
And this being true of both “sides”.
Dummies that have bellies so reliably filled with nourishments, indulging in absurd luxury of delusion.
Slowpokes seriously responding to delusions of the well fed idiots with naive sincerity that idiots can be illuminated by reasonable conversation.
Sheesh.
An abundant clusterfuck quality of reliable nourishment, sufficient perception of safety of flesh, significantly meager efforts required to induce the delusion of luxury to drama queen juice the many addicted to the thrills of fantasy, all possible because of those who face the truth of just where we all are, namely, not fucking paradise.
Every other species in this world has sufficient sense to know this, and live to the true of it.
Except the fucking humans.
Oh well….
Humans always gotta not learn the hardest of ways…..
““They’re not after me, they’re after you. I’m just in the way.” PDJT
That is a useful thing for us to remember. ”
A more useful thing to remember is this:
“The Left hates you and wants you dead.” Col Kurt Schlicter.
Madness Rules the Hour: Charleston, 1860 and the Mania for War
by Paul Starobin describes an earlier period when the movement that elected Lincoln was ascendent. A Planter Class, trapped in a threatened artificial world with huge debt and no personal agency, behaved in a very similar way.
As others have noted, it is not just WAPO, check some Quora areas, or see that Crist finds praising Biden is widely accepted.
Obama exploded government. The average federal employee salary is $109,992. Academia has exploded the employment of non-teaching positions earning high salaries as well as huge salary growth for the other faculty.
Martin Gurri has insghts https://www.city-journal.org/the-elite-panic-of-2022.
The Z Man recently wrote: “the modern right is powerless in these battles. Their bourgeois objectivism requires them to find a logical explanation for everything. Since there can be no rational answer for the burst of insanity we see at the top of society, the right must sit in stunned silence.”
The End of the World Is Just the Beginning: Mapping the Collapse of Globalization by Peter Zeihan is worth reading. It is hard to argue with his conclusions that depopulation via aging out is set to have disruptive effects that haven’t been seen since the 1940’s.
Move out of Blue States and Blue Cities. Start a flock of chickens and a big garden. The Woke really are as crazy as they appear, and like the Planter Class of the 1850’s they are not going to change.
David Foster.
One would think that people take political positions based on their views of issues and which party or ,movement is most sympathetic to those views and most likely to make them part of our reality.
If that were the case, what would we be thinking about your other eighty percent? They actually like the stuff they’re proposing? Wow. Good to know, though.
My problem with that supposition is two-fold. Some of those ideas are hideous, ranging from criminalizing hate speech to confiscating legally-owned firearms. The other is a pretty much universal ignorance of how things work. Those who want to criminalize hate speech insist it would be done fairly. But give them ten seconds and something which is obviously not hate speech but which disagrees effectively with what they assert is…hate speech. Since nobody’s dumb enough to actually think an irrefutable body will be fair, they expect it to be unfair. And, so, that must be their plan.
I use hate speech as a single example.
If we presume nobody’s that dumb–in the general world of politics and law and culture and society–what’s left is they really want things to go as their positions logically go, despite denials.
About a year ago, a visitor from..elsewhere…was surprised to discover that, here in the benighted midwest, the local Episcopal church had a Pride flag out during Pride week. And made a point of mentioning it. She’s a Piskie herself. What she must think of her co-religionists….
Point is, it is difficult to see Trump-haters as a group, judged by their political views and activities, as actually using their brains.
First comes something else: Virtue signaling to oneself is, I think, the most powerful. Then tribalism. Signaling one’s correctness. Many of the liberal/left programs involve making people do stupid stuff, which seems to attract more than HOA board members.
It would be one thing if a, say, Green acknowledged that wind and solar are predictably unreliable and some backup–nuke or fossil–must be provided. But…no. Just have to have more and then…change the subject.
The appalling environmental catastrophes of massive mining for components of the batteries–half a ton per car–are of no concern. Why not? Try getting an answer.
So while I follow you on your twenty percent, I’m not impressed with the remaining eighty percent.
We all know how the media works. Crazy story on page one. A week later a correction in small print on page 3.
Trump haters believe the lies. These Fools that think they are well informed.
Um… You lefties and professional leftist republicans purposefully denied us participation in our political system in 2020, are treating us like a conquered people jailing us for no reason and spending our future wealth on your own items all the while projecting your crimes upon us… This isn’t going to work.
Please stay in your inner city hellholes you have created. We have been open to discussing ideas for the last 70 years and you have chosen not to because your arguments do not comply with common sense. Stay in your lanes.
“They actually like the stuff they’re proposing? Wow. Good to know, though.”
Note the following point, which has been time and time again:
To paraphrase the illustrious WJC, “It’s the DEMONIZATION, stupid.”**
…which DEMONIZATION permits them to rationalize, embrace and “prove” ANYTHING and EVERYTHING WRT Trump and his supporters.
…which DEMONIZATION permits them to believe ANY and EVERY LIE.
…which DEMONIZATION permits them to HATE to the UTMOST Trump and his supporters.
…etc.
Thus, they can believe and lie WILLINGLY—even if they KNOW they’re being lied to…and, obviously, if they don’t know…or don’t WANT to know…or DON’T CARE
In any event, the DEMONIZATION OF TRUMP IS THE TRUTH…that is, the TRUTH that makes EVERY LIE…TRUTH; that makes EVERY ILLEGAL act LEGAL; that makes every IMMORAL fetish a MORAL IMPERATIVE.
Another quote: “This will not end well”.
Indeed, we are in trouble; deep, deep trouble.
** Note that this is just the quote. It is NOT a reference to you, or anyone else. I.e., no offense intended to anyone.
A critical mass of the population believes this crap. And they control the permanent government and every meaningful institution in the country except for a few right-leaning publications. They control the Internet, your access to your bank account, and a legal system with enough vague statutes that they could indict most of us for something if they decide to do so, or at least tie us up in legal proceedings for years. (And good luck finding a good lawyer if you’re a deplorable.)
About the only thing that we have the opportunity to control in the near term is the elected government. And if the left gains meaningful control of the elected federal government even once, they’ll rig the system to shut the right out of power altogether.
So in 2024, let’s run a candidate who has never won a majority in any contested election, mobilizes armies of these low information drones to turn out against him, is more concerned with trolling than governance, and regularly needs to have his foot surgically removed from his mouth. We’ll live under progressive hegemony for the rest of our lives, but boy will it will feel good to own the libs during the campaign!
Should be, “…which has been MADE time and time again…”
Yikes….
Should be “…they can believe ANY lie willingly…”
The flip side is that all those commenters voted for a guy who has shown Pedo tendencies.
Litmus test. Would you leave your little girl alone in a room with Joe Biden? Then show them videos of Joe, hands on their shoulders at first, but creeping down, down, down and next thing you know his hands are over their breasts. As soon as those little girls have the chance they get away and fast.
Imagine what happened in the past behind closed doors.
All those commenters know this. Its not a secret.
Too many people earn too much money that they wouldn’t were it the market that determined wages. They love a gov’t – what we have – that substitutes dictates for market forces. Anything else is perceived as a threat. Large enough threats (Trump?) have to be eliminated.
And THEY think WE are crazed! Insanity, the left has in it spades…and are digging downnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!
“To paraphrase the illustrious WJC, “It’s the DEMONIZATION, stupid.”**”
Yes, the “demonization” is what separates and blinds us, regardless of what flavor of ideology we profess.
If you allow yourself to adopt “demonization” as a means of interpreting the world, you are already sunk, in trouble, and isolated.
Joining with others in collaborative “demonization” is the problem.
The Trump I support is the one whose actions in office make him the best president in my adult lifetime. I only got to that point by watching what he did and letting his actions interpret his words.
Like many here, I thought he was some sort of clown or even a stalking horse for Hillary. I was astonished to wake up and find he had been elected. For me it was like a brick through the window of the Establishment. That was enough to enjoy it. Then I was pleasantly surprised to see what he did as President.
I have a very left wing daughter. She was visiting a couple of years ago and was watching the Sunday talk shows (I quit watching them years ago). As I walked past her, she commented in a loud voice “Trump is so incompetent !” I paused and asked if 3% unemployment and a stock market at 30,000 was evidence of incompetence ? “Yes!” she said. I did not pursue it. Sadly, she is a lawyer and FBI agent.
I’ve thought since the Jan 6 protest, that what the vile progs intended to do was to provoke conservatives into some kind of violent reaction, upon which the progs could land like a ton of legal bricks – basically, disenfranchise/demonize practically every Republican/Tea Partier/conservative around. But there hasn’t been any such incident yet. We are holding on to our tempers, and I wonder if prog rage will spill over into violence first. Are they nerving themselves up to spontaneously open fire, literally, on those they view as evil, stupid deplorables? The rage and hatred on display in those comments has got to find a release, somewhere and somehow…
they have nearly all been released from any kind of lockup, so what will stop them from rampaging,
@ Sgt Mom > “I wonder if prog rage will spill over into violence first…The rage and hatred on display in those comments has got to find a release, somewhere and somehow…”
If a prog rages in the forest and the media doesn’t hear it….
https://notthebee.com/article/heres-the-suspect-who-was-arrested-after-the-mass-shooting-in-atlanta-yesterday
Bonus video from last month:
https://notthebee.com/video/are-you-really-surprised-that-conservatives-are-angry
BM clearly hasn’t spent any time here, because if he or she did, he or she would clearly know that the commenters on this blog, and most assuredly our esteemed host, are very critical of Republicans and conservatives when they do things we don’t like, which is frequently.
Neo’s endorsement of Trump came after a lot of skepticism, as it did for most of us, and her praises of the Great God-Emperor Trump were always seasoned with criticisms, and there is plenty to criticize. She has no qualms about calling His Orangeness out when he deserved it, and we appreciate that. But she’s also smart enough to recognize what he really accomplished, which was significant, dare I say the most by a President in our lifetimes, most of which he gets no credit for, if it’s acknowledged at all.
The claims of “team over anything” else ring especially hollow, because most commenters here are like me, who hold the majority of Republicans, and the party as a whole, in contempt, or nearly so. We support the party not because we like it, but because it’s the only thing out there, and there are precious few politicians that elicit strong support from us, and none without due criticism. I’ve been reading this blog for over 15 years precisely because it’s _not_ a Two-Minutes Hate. And while we certainly commiserate on the relentless insanity coming from the Left, something any objective person can recognize, we are not motivated by hatred, but by a desire the see things get better instead of worse, and dismayed by the utter nihilism and illogic that passes for politics from too many people. We can also recognize and acknowledge, although it seldom happens, when someone on the Left does or says something good.
BM’s bowel movement of spurious criticism was a waste of electrons, and should rightly fall on deaf ears. It is probably just a slice of copy-pasta meant to be dropped whole, or with minimal editing on right-wing blogs en masse anyway. It shows no apparent awareness of what this place is actually like.
I don’t know which is more disturbing, the original article, or the comments that accompanied it.
What I am convinced of is that the average Democrat, or average liberal (but I repeat myself); really has no idea what the average Republican or average conservative (there I go, repeating myself again), really wants or supports.
Speaking for myself, as a white, late middle age, heterosexual, married, father, raised Catholic, votes Republican, Bible-reading, gun owning conservative; I have no fear, bias, hatred, or desire to remake the U.S. as white, Christian and conservative, since it already is predominantly white-ish, Christian, and conservative. The true biases are in the statistical sampling methods that show lack of Christian and conservative influence. The latter being a pronounced tendency to avoid being counted or surveyed in the first place.
The fact that most of the Left suffer from the aptly named Trump Derangement Syndrome means they are incapable of understanding that his behaviors in office and afterwards are in very little way criminal, and certainly the ones claiming that he’s a criminal are in fact far more guilty of that than he could ever be. Nor is Mr. Mr. Trump particularly prone to lying; but rather he’s a verbal brainstormer, throwing out all kinds of ideas, crazy or otherwise, to see which ones stick. Which is a greater benefit than liberal ideas with secular religiousity masquerading as “science”, that have little basis in reality, and even less in fiscal responsibility.
Trump has NEVER been against immigrants. He has been, like most intelligent people who actually consider actions and consequences, against ILLEGAL immigration. The Black Lives Matter movement has never been able black lives; since blacks kill blacks with such abandon, and no publicity, by a factor of at least 10 to 1 compared to blacks killed by anyone else. And that’s without factoring in black abortion rates.
Fully 2/3rds of the population of the United States openly admits that the 2020 election was fraudulent. It barely requires anyone to have more than an elementary school appreciation of statistics to come to that conclusion. Although it does require a consider amount of personal blindness to refuse to see it.
CRT and the 1619 revision of history are not about reality either. Rather, they are inherently racist themselves. They are an attempt by racist grifters to induce unwarranted guilt in white people in order to extort money and other forms of wealth from them. And worse, CRT belies any hope for the ability for people to overcome any possible biases they might have while labeling rational discrimination as criminal.
Non-standard sexuality IS detrimental to any society as a whole. Yes, that includes everyone in, and supporting, the entire LGBTQ+ (and ultra-feminist) related populations. We are only able to ‘tolerate’ it due to our extreme wealth as a society; and that at the requirement that we import foreign born people to bolster our crashing population levels. None of us want to return to the days were it was permissible to assault, rob, or kill gays. We prefer that they have equal treatment before the law, employment, housing, healthcare, inheritance, and association. We don’t agree that a civil union is a marriage; one being secular, the other religious. Nor do we agree that children in the process of development should be mentally and physically maimed for life by those pushing the mental illness of transgenderism on the entire population.
Finally, the concepts freedom, liberty, and fair play for all people, under which this nation was founded, even though at the time considered only for property owning males, IS the character of this nation. Immigration, legal and illegal, at levels that exceed our ability for immigrants to assimilate our culture, is destructive of that character. And that character is what made America great in the first place. Which is exactly why we conservatives oppose the actions of the Left. Not that we hate non-whiles. Not that we hate non-Christians. And not because we hate immigrrants.
Sgt. Mom @ 12:18pm,
As much as it troubles me to agree, far too much evidence points to your supposition being correct. And, they’ve shown they don’t need their opposition to take the bait. If they cannot engineer an uprising (see the absurdly obvious Jussie Smollett hoax) they’ll latch onto whatever is convenient, like the botched arrest in Minneapolis of a man who ingested a life threatening amount of fentanyl.
Look at how quickly they produced huge crowds of angry women in every major city of the country with the engineered timing of the release of a year’s old, innocuous, offhand comment by Trump on a barely watched entertainment show.
Art Deco complains about my word choice when I refer to it as a Color Revolution. I don’t know what else to call it, but there is no question this is by design.
The very fact that this moron of a “writer” recycles the easily and repeatedly debunked “Fine People Hoax” is enough to makes me *boil*. There’s a “Got a Little List, They Never Will be Missed” section in my bookmarks with names and links to what they did to gain entry. Will now go see who did this and update that list!
(Credit Scott Adams, of “Dilbert” comic fame, for the name “Fine People Hoax” )
Certainly, rational dialogue between people of different opinions is useful and necessary, but what happens when people have different facts as well as different opinions? People who aren’t as well “informed” — that is to say propagandized — are more able to have rational and dignified conversations. Their discussions may not get very far, but they aren’t at each other’s throats. Maybe that’s what Orwell meant when he said, “If there was hope, it must lie in the proles.”
A shared skepticism or cynicism about politicians and their promises helps to bridge divides. Bearing in mind that most of what one hears about politics is propaganda, differences become differences in degree and details, rather than absolute divides. The country doesn’t get “united” by politicians. Politicians get power by playing on our divisions. It’s disliking and not believing in politicians that unites us. We were never so united as when most of us hated Bush, or were tired of Obama, or were disgusted by Clinton. When we are all bored with Trump and disgusted by Biden, we will be (sort of) united.
But it seems like people need to have an anchoring hatred to know where they stand, and how they are, and how to make their way in the world. A mild dissatisfaction with politicians as imperfect beings who can’t do everything and can’t get everything right isn’t enough. Ridicule can be a healthy substitute for hatred — laughing at Biden means not hating him so much — but for some people ridicule and hatred drive and reinforce each other.
Sgt Mom I think you are correct, one example Ray Epps behavior yelling at people they needed to get in to the capital, and I am positive he wasn’t talking as tourists taking selfies
It should be CLEARLY UNDERSTOOD that at this stage of “the game”, violence is win-win for the Democrats.
Antifa? BLM? (And, alas, the FBI?—and coming soon to a neighborhood near you—the IRS?)
THE RESISTANCE!!!!
Defy them, resist them, criticize them…at your risk!…
…But DEPLORABLES? (I.e., anyone who does not support “Biden”):
Violent, deplorable, white-supremacist, RACIST, anti-American INSURRECTIONISTS!!!…
…who SHOULD BE PUT DOWN by any and all means necessary.
The left looks at Trump supporters the same way that German Nazis looked at Jewish folks in 1930s/40s Germany.
Basically, it’s a pseudo-religious belief system, devoid of any actual thinking or questioning.
Any facts presented to them contrary to their belief system is ignored , considered a lie, or twisted about in such a way that it is construed as even more evidence to affirm their beliefs.
Propagandists – expert at manipulating the masses – understand how easy and effective providing (repeatedly) the “right” message is totally and completely believed by a large percentage of ordinary people.
It make’s no difference what is the ethnicity, nationality, or level of education of these true believers.
They just believe and they prefer it that way; it’s just easier to turn off your brain and go with the flow.
1. Projection, projection, projection
2. Explainer pieces on FB, Reddit, Quora, etc. are not about “explaining” and all about excusing, as in “I love my sister (the racist wingnut who dares to disagree with me and therefore All Good People about the scope and role of government), so I’ve spent years developing this hysterically overwrought screed excusing myself from her decision to vote for Trump. It’s like southerners who are always eager to explain how growing up they were the only one for miles around who wasn’t an enormous cruel stupid privileged oblivious racist. SO needy!
“Our democracy.”
The very first misstep happened decades ago when somebody put forth the idea that democracy rather than freedom was our raison d’être. From that to the position that “democracy” is by definition whatever the “Democrats” want is a small step.
Democracy is a tool for producing freedom. Valuing it *over* freedom is a profound category error, like teaching to the test.
I make a habit of showing the full “very fine people” to liberals I run across. To a man, I show them the full unedited clip and then ask them to defend their view of the “very fine people” comment and they do one of two things:
1. Hesitate for a second and then continue lying; or
2. Never miss a beat and continue lying.
I have NEVER had somebody say “Oh, wow, look at that, I’ve been lied to and should reconsider…” Never.
TommyJay,
Excellent point about Crist. I wonder what if anything he has been promised for his ‘contribution’?
M Smith,
“People vote based on their interests, and when that’s not the whole truth they vote based on their identity, affiliations, and self-image.”
For the sane that’s so. However, you left out the single greatest motivational factor for those on the left; ideology.
However, you left out the single greatest motivational factor for those on the left; ideology.
Nowadays, the motor is attitudes, not ideology.
It doesn’t matter what the Left thinks – it matters what Democrats and voters who vote Democrat think.
Talk about “the Left” allows Democrats to claim that “it’s not them”.
Republicans need to discuss how bad the Democrats are, and what the Democrats think – and challenge those we talk to if they, the ones we talk to, are thinking like these other Democrats are thinking.
Tom Gray, Bill Whittle had a similar viewpoint in this Virtue Signal episode:
https://billwhittle.com/just-go-away-dont-call-democrats-communists-heres-why/
Just Go Away: Don’t Call Democrats Communists…Here’s Why 8/23/22
[28 minute video]
@ Das > “I have NEVER had somebody say “Oh, wow, look at that, I’ve been lied to and should reconsider…” Never.”
Brandon Straka had that response to another slander of Trump, and founded the Walkaway movement which compiled thousands of videos of disaffected Democrats.
His momentum was stopped by his arrest for being one of the J6 Insurrectionists (hah), but I believe he has gone back to his activism as far as the court would let him.
In his case, when I say “Go Brandon!” it’s a serious compliment.
https://www.foxnews.com/transcript/brandon-straka-explains-the-walkaway-campaign-and-his-disillusionment-with-democratic-party-and-liberal-media
@ Das > here’s a cartoon for you from a Twitter thread I saw today —
while being a liberal usually means never having to say you’re sorry, sometimes you just have to take the L.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FbCilOZXgAANb9D?format=jpg&name=900×900
@ Rufus > “Look at how quickly they produced huge crowds of angry women in every major city of the country with the engineered timing of the release of a year’s old, innocuous, offhand comment by Trump on a barely watched entertainment show.”
I’m not sure which comment you are referencing, but it reminded me of what Susan Vass said in her personna as Ammo Grrrll, the day after Trump won the 2016 election.
AesopSpouse and I had many qualms in 2016 about The Donald’s moral fitness for the office – although none about his campaign policies – and the media weren’t shy about promoting any shreds of fact or rumor to exacerbate that reluctance.
We were repulsed by the “pussy tape,” as so many conservatives were, which was exactly the reaction that the (oh so not suspicious!) release was intended to create. We didn’t talk like that, our friends and families didn’t talk like that, and we didn’t hang around with the kids at high school and college who did talk like that.
However, we had finally decided that he wasn’t any worse, ethically, than a lot of former Presidents and candidates, although media and historians did their best to hide the worst. No need to give the list. So, as is often said, we held our noses and voted for him because there was no way we were going to vote for Hillary Clinton.
Reading Susan’s column afterwards assuaged our last remaining snowflakey jitters, because she did know people who talked like that and they were perfectly normal, decent, human beings, not depraved satyrs. We were reassured that President Trump wasn’t going to have orgies in the White House or anything like that (unlike some other former holders of that office).
A lot of what Susan wrote then has been echoed in the comments here, and I thought you might like to read what actually turned out to be a pretty accurate prophecy of the disasters delayed by the four years of the Trump presidency.
Four good years, as it happened.
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/11/thoughts-from-the-ammo-line-140.php
Sadly, none of them kept their promises to leave.
They had too much work to do hamstringing President Trump so that he accomplished far less than he could have, but we’re grateful for what he achieved despite them.
None of this is anything the Washington Post readers will ever understand.
Sarah Hoyt’s post is a riff on this one, expressing similar worries but from a different perspective.
And with a very idiosyncratic analogy.
https://accordingtohoyt.com/2022/08/25/rains-of-spiders-and-women-birthing-snakes/
If you aren’t a regular reader, just plow through the typos and somewhat disjointed syntax. These daily essays are a stream-of-consciousness public journal, not proofed for formal publication.
Always thought provoking, always … odd.
The left, soft, hard, medium well-done — are completely bonkers about Trump and Trump voters. I’ve had people write and tell me they can’t discuss D***** T**** with me in email since I voted for him — and they won’t write his name. So, well… OK… and I know another who dumped friends of some forty years because he found out they voted for Trump. It goes on… I’ve never seen anything quite this insane. It gets worse I know. I’ve never seen anything quite like this.