Jose Alba and assault: update on the NY bodega case
More has been revealed about the incident leading up to the death of Austin Simon at the hands of bodega employee Jose Alba. If you’re not familiar with the story so far, please see this previous post of mine on the subject.
Read the newer article and you’ll see what I’m talking about. It’s based on the release of a version of the videotape that also contains audio. It starts with the now familiar story of the woman’s EBT card not going through when she wanted to buy her 10-year-old daughter (who was present) a bag of chips, the woman’s resultant anger, and her angry contention that Alba had snatched the bag of chips from the daughter.
The audio reveals a conversation that went like this, after the card failed to go through:
“Did you put food?” the girlfriend can be heard on video asking Alba about how he rang up the sale.
“OK, mama, let me do it another time. My God,” Alba says.
“There’s money on there,” she insists.
The footage, which was edited, then cuts to other customers, and the woman yells from off camera, “You can’t touch my daughter. Don’t snatch that out of my daughter, you f–king piece of shit!”
Lovely lady.
More:
Alba is not seen in the footage taking away the chips.
The woman goes on to say “I’m gonna bring my n– down here and he gonna f–k you up. My n— is gonna come down here right now and f–k you up!”
So that’s the prelude to Austin Simon’s arrival on the scene, almost certainly setting up a very strong and completely understandable expectation on the part of Alba that if Simon arrived it would be with the intent of doing him harm, perhaps grave harm.
And so when Simon – a much younger and fitter man – entered, he immediately went behind the security barrier that separates store clerks from the customers, and greeted Alba this way:
Then Simon can be seen walking in and going immediately behind the counter.
“What’s up with you? N—-r what is wrong with you?” he demands.
That’s Simon talking to Alba, by the way – not the other way around.
There’s quite a bit more at the link, but that’s the most important new information. It makes it even more clear what threats Alba faced, and why he felt that his life and limb were at stake. But as we know, he’s been charged with murder.
Also, the girlfriend is seen from another video angle stabbing Alba in the arm, but that seems to be during or right after Alba was stabbing Simon. She has not been charged at all so far or even named.
Once upon a time there used to be a crime known as assault which was part of the familiar phrase assault and battery. Here’s the old definition of assault:
Assault is generally defined as an intentional act that puts another person in reasonable apprehension of imminent harmful or offensive contact. No physical injury is required, but the actor must have intended to cause a harmful or offensive contact with the victim and the victim must have thereby been put in immediate apprehension of such a contact.
I’m not sure whether “mere words” (such as those uttered by the girlfriend about getting her boyfriend to come and f*** Alba up) could ever have been defined as “assault,” even if followed by a battery (a touching). But it’s moot now, because now assault is usually defined differently, and that is the case in New York, which has various degrees of assault that all require an injury of some sort to have occurred.
However, there’s also a crime in NY called menacing, which I’d never heard of before but which seems somewhat similar to the old definition of assault. Menacing is defined as “intentionally plac[ing] another person in ‘reasonable fear of physical injury, serious physical injury or death.'” Verbally threatening is included, and I think it is pretty clear from the audio that Simon’s girlfriend could be successfully prosecuted for menacing, which carries a penalty of up to six months’ imprisonment.
I’d be shocked if Bragg ever decided to prosecute her for that.
As far as the girlfriend’s stabbing of Alba goes, I’m not so sure that would be a crime if in fact it occurred while Alba was in the act of killing Simon. Even though it may have been justified self-defense on the part of Alba, the girlfriend was trying to save her boyfriend’s life, which I believe (I’m not an expert on this) would make it self-defense on her part, because “self-defense” includes an act committed in the course of trying to save the life of another.
So, why weren’t the charges against Alba dropped the minute prosecutors saw the video, especially with the audio? (Rhetorical question.) Bragg says oh well, I’m thinking about it. But IMHO he can afford to drop the charges now because he’s already gotten his message across, which is don’t defend yourself or you could be charged with murder. And you better hope there’s video to document things, or it will be even worse for you.
One thing that puzzles me about this: how did Simon so quickly get “behind the security barrier that separates store clerks from the customers.” Must not have been much of a barrier. There are a few stores and gas stations in this area in high crime areas where the clerk is behind a pretty tough-looking sheet of glass, and money is exchanged through a fairly small opening at the bottom. I’ve never looked closely at the surrounding structure, but it wasn’t wide open and I assumed must be pretty much walled off. Otherwise, what’s the use?
Mac:
I don’t know, but I don’t think it’s a locked booth. I think a previous commenter mentioned that it’s a known fact in NY that bodega workers are often armed for self-defense, and that going behind that barrier is considered an aggressive and dangerous act. I think the idea is that it acts as psychological warning not to go there and that it is defended territory.
One man is dead ab another is facing murder charges. And for what? A bag of chips!
Corhead,
I could almost hear Robert Duvall’s character in the western movie “ Open Range” in your quote. He says something similar to the crooked, dying land baron. Paraphrase, “ …and for what, a few more cows?”
Would have been a good movie except for the one scene where Duval’s character says something a bit blasphemous in anger towards God near the beginning of the movie .
Cornhead:
A $3 bag of chips may have been the proximate cause, but it certainly wasn’t the underlying cause. The underlying cause[s]: outrage and feeling shamed and “dissed” on the part of the woman, and a kneejerk reaction of anger and violence to that feeling on her part, with the cooperation of the boyfriend in trying to get revenge.
“…a kneejerk reaction of anger and violence…[and]…trying to get revenge.”
So, same as Elizabeth Warren re: Dobbs then.
The underlying cause[s]: outrage and feeling shamed and “dissed” on the part of the woman, and a kneejerk reaction of anger and violence to that feeling on her part, with the cooperation of the boyfriend in trying to get revenge.
Once more with feeling. Black chauvinists and white leftists have concocted in their own mind a society of orders. At the bottom are deplorables like Mr. Alba (or Derek Chauvin) who are to be deferential to their betters. In the mind of this woman, he’s rif raff. She fancies she has her status at birth, whereas white leftists fancy they confer status and blacks are their clients. Alvin Bragg is a manifestation of the intersection between the two mentalities. Note, the objection to gun ownership is that low status people have guns, which they conceive of as a violation of the natural order. Persons such as themselves have security on the payroll. Their mascots in the slums have guns because they flout the law and the law is not enforced. (Not enforced because police officers are deplorables and thus of lower status).
The sketchy Mr. Sailer has called it. Much of the discourse of the professional-managerial stratum in this country is devoted to promoting narcissism and megalomania among blacks. What’s on the video is a partial consequence of that.
Now that we have her words, I’d say the girlfriend bears a large responsibility for the whole mess. It also should matter how severe a beating she expected her boyfriend to deliver, which could be estimated from his criminal history perhaps.
There is a long history of hot-headed women getting the men in their lives to do their criminal dirty work. Sometimes those women skate free of charges or get reduced charges and sentencing and sometimes not. I always feel it is a miscarriage of justice when even the reduced charges happen.
Oh, she bears some responsibility, but if I were to go ranting to my husband that some store clerk had disrespected me, he wouldn’t go try to beat up the clerk.
But it wasn’t over a bag of chips – it was over the expectation that a free bag of chips should always, unconditionally, be free.
Thank You, LBJ…
In a sane world, the girlfriend would fail Andrew Branca’s initial test of “innocence”. She initiated the dispute and then recruited help to resolve her dispute via physical violence. One cannot claim self-defense if they are an instigator of the event.
Also, in that sane world, even though no weapon is attributed to the deceased, the fact that he was younger, more physically capable –even possibly larger– does provide Alba with support for a state of mind that he was facing serious bodily injury, even death, if he did not defend himself, which gives him license to employ deadly force against his assailant. The earlier words of the g/f also support that. And… he has no reason to believe she would not join in and put him at a numerical disadvantage (another justification for use of force), which she did in fact do.
The girlfriend put the event into motion, Alba did not.
The downside: It’s New York.
Had Alba just allowed the woman to ‘appropriate’ the bag of chips, Simon would be alive and able to continue his protests against the poverty that compelled his seizure of what is rightfully his due.
Kate,
I was musing about my own marriage and thinking how that would never happen also. For a variety of reasons. But look at the exact statement,
“I’m gonna bring my n– down here and he gonna f–k you up.
Kate suggests that if she “were to go ranting to my husband that some store clerk had disrespected me” not much would happen. But this lovely lady went well beyond that. She did not say “he gonna straighten this out” or even “he maybe gonna f–k you up,” she said “he gonna f–k you up.”
She stated it as a certainty, which could be hyperbole but also could be a statement of fact.
But it wasn’t over a bag of chips – it was over the expectation that a free bag of chips should always, unconditionally, be free. Thank You, LBJ…
What do you fancy Lyndon Johnson did which makes him responsible for this? Tens of millions of people use EBT cards every day without stealing stuff and Johnson’s not the one who Jedi-mindtricked the sorosphere prosecutors into using courts as a weapon against ordinary people.
Another Mike; et al:
I forgot to mention that the girlfriend stabbed Alba with her own knife that she carried in her purse.
Neo replying to Cornhead: “A $3 bag of chips may have been the proximate cause, but it certainly wasn’t the underlying cause. The underlying cause[s]: outrage and feeling shamed and “dissed” on the part of the woman, and a kneejerk reaction of anger and violence to that feeling on her part, with the cooperation of the boyfriend in trying to get revenge.”
So that’s why Will Smith slapped Chris Rock?
Property is theft wasnt that from some idiot in the washington post said some years ago, ignoring that proudhon said it first
…along with that exquisite corelative…by—whom else?!—ne plus ultra “historian” (and non-stop, one-trick social commentator) Nikole Hannah-Jones:
“…[D]estroying property is ‘not violence’ “—
https://nypost.com/2020/06/03/ny-times-reporter-says-destroying-property-is-not-violence/
To be more precise, I believe, Alba did not “disrespect” the woman and her daughter — the EBT card did. Her complaint should have been with the card, not Alba.
“Tens of millions of people use EBT cards every day without stealing stuff and Johnson’s not the one who Jedi-mindtricked the sorosphere prosecutors into using courts as a weapon against ordinary people.”
the parasitical scum who use EBT cards every day to buy potato chips, are stealing from hardworking taxpayers
Hold on.
Is DA Bragg telling us that Alba is a “White Hispanic”(TM)?
…And that ALL Bodega owners are “White Hispanics”(TM)?
(And NOT ONLY Bodega owners…?)
In my little county we voted out what I thought was an awful DA a couple of years ago.
Honestly, she never even came close to this crazy.
I never realized before how important it is to run good candidates in every cycle. It takes work finding people to run and supporting their campaigns, but it’s crucial.
This year we voted in a new County Judge. Every step helps. There has to be a core of sane people in all the influential positions, so that there’s some constant ballast against the constant tendency of lunatics to push things over the edge or institutionalize graft.
I’m lazy about getting deeply involved in higher-office elections, but it’s always possible to keep a hand in the lowest-level local ones. Those are your neighbors. You can start with precinct chairs and election judges.
Two genuine heroes of contemporary America:
Kyle Rittenhouse and Jose Alba.
As far as the girlfriend’s stabbing of Alba goes, I’m not so sure that would be a crime if in fact it occurred while Alba was in the act of killing Simon. Even though it may have been justified self-defense on the part of Alba, the girlfriend was trying to save her boyfriend’s life, which I believe (I’m not an expert on this) would make it self-defense on her part, because “self-defense” includes an act committed in the course of trying to save the life of another.
I believe, though I’m not certain, that under NY law you are only allowed to use deadly force against someone who is engaging in unlawful deadly force against a third party. If Alba was lawfully defending himself, as he clearly was, then her attack on him would be a crime. But that may depend on what she could have “reasonably believed” at the time.
What I saw in the video was Simon walking up to Alba and pushing him down (looks like assault to me). Alba does not resist at this point. Simon continues to stand over him, making comments, and worryingly to me messing with his back pocket, as if he had something else there and deciding to use it or not. All the while Alba doesn’t resist.
At some point, Simon is distracted by a person on the other side of the counter. This gives Alba a chance to get on his feet. This gets Simon’s attention and words are exchanged, but whether there was audio or not, I didn’t have it on. I then see Alba step around Simon. For a moment, Alba’s back is to Simon, and it appears to me that Alba is retreating to another area at that point (up to that point he was literally cornered by Simon). As Alba attempts to move away, Simon grabs Alba by the shoulder. It is as that point that Alba throws a hook with apparently a knife in his hand to Simon’s neck. I say apparent, because I didn’t see the knife, but Simon’s neck is immediately bleeding. I think that was probably enough to be the fatal blow. Regardless, Alba didn’t fight back until in the effort to retreat, Simon continued to press the assault.
As for Simon’s girlfriend, I technically understand the potential “self-defense” of her stabbing Alba. However, my own sense is she’s the person fully responsible for Simon’s death. She’s the one that started the engagement. She’s the one that escalated the engagement by having Simon appear. She then uses equally deadly force, if not so effectively, against Alba. How her actions are not a crime is beyond me.
I know you are not making this argument, neo; but this is why the notion of words are violent is silly, when actual and direct threats of violence lead to it yet are not prosecuted. It’s the whole, it’s peaceful protesting when we do it, BS.
Stop it with the “N—–r” and “F–k” edits. If the scum can and do say it routinely, you and the other betters can surely report it.
It is a cave-in to the leftists who believe the 13% deserve it all to do otherwise.
I’ve said it before, will do so again: Charles Murray’s data over some decades [in Facing Reality] show the average IQ of a male A-A is one standard deviation below the average IQ of white Americans. And no amount of money, spent on education or otherwise, can raise any IQ. Harvard is welcome to them.
the parasitical scum who use EBT cards every day to buy potato chips, are stealing from hardworking taxpayers
No, they are not. They signed up for a duly enacted program. If you don’t think we should have the program, then persuade legislators to discontinue it.
“No, they are not. They signed up for a duly enacted program. If you don’t think we should have the program, then persuade legislators to discontinue it.”
What a jejune response. It may be a legal program but still the vile parasitical scum is using taxpayers money for a discretionary snack that many taxpayers have to cut back on in Biden’s economy.
Sheesh
Somehow I bet you still wear masks
in new york among other blue states, the expansion of welfare programs, like the ebt has had noxious effects, mssr simon could afford a $300.00 sweatshirt, so he wasn’t really short on funds, it’s just mr alba was an easy mark,
Furthermore under fat alvin bragg, he knows he was mostly home free,
“Furthermore under fat alvin bragg, he knows he was mostly home free,…” This can’t be stressed enough. They think they should be able to get away with this kind of thing because the brother is in charge…
We can pretend intimidation is NOT intimidation (in fact, we can pretend it is self-defense, liberation, overthrowing oppression, self-affirmation, whatever, etc.)
We can pretend threats are NOT threats (in fact, we can pretend…ditto…)
We can pretend violence is NOT violence (in fact, we can pretend…ditto…)
We can pretend harassment is NOT harassment (in fact, we can pretend…ditto…)
We can pretend inflation is not inflation (or at least, not really…)
We can pretend “Biden” (along with “his” admiring supporters) is defending America from Trump (and HIS).
We can pretend “Biden”, etc., is defending DEMOCRACY.
We can pretend that “Biden” is doing “his” best for “his” country and that anything “untoward” that may be happening—in front of your lying eyes—is SOMEONE ELSE’s fault. ALWAYS.)
We can pretend that “Biden” is honest and not, essentially, corrupt.
We can pretend the the media and info-tech are, with “Biden” telling us the truth, not hiding anything, and similarly, DEFENDING DEMOCRACY.
Other fantasy/fantasies of choice:_____
(…and here we are mocking Hunter Biden that HE’s a crack addict….or Joe Biden, himself, that HE’s a brick short…or Kamala Harris that SHE’s just not up to the job…)
File under: REPARATIONS!! EQUITY!! FANTASY!!
BUT…some things are—fortunately—REAL (at least, fortunately for some!)
“Nancy Pelosi’s husband buys millions in computer-chip stocks before big subsidy vote”—
https://nypost.com/2022/07/16/paul-pelosi-buys-tech-chip-stocks-before-big-subsidy-vote/
(…Maybe it’s time to theatrically rip up another “SOTU address??…)
Neo, I hope you are resident of one of those old fashioned live-free-or-die states. I moved from Kali to Texas. I get holy hell from Texans thinking I’m going to turn Texas into Haight-Ashbury. Nothing could be further than the truth. I don’t know what amount of human night soil amounts to enough, but whatever it is I’ve had enough. I’m not quite to the point where I’m going to put the Baptists in charge but I’m close.
The left hates you and want you dead. Me? I want to live a while longer. I value my life, and consequently my right to defend my life. If you don’t mind, expletive to equity and the horse it rode in on.
Alvin Bragg and Ben Crump walk into a bar…,
Slowed down video reveals that Simon was actually choking Alba when Alba grabbed the knife and stabbed him. At speed it looks like Simon has grabbed Alba by the shoulder but slowed down you can see that Simon had actually grabbed a large handful of the collar of Alba’s shirt and twisted it all the way around his fist.
Simon actually yanked Alba up from his sitting position using this chokehold, so not only was Simon’s fist wrapping Alba’s collar tight around Alba’s neck but this noose was jerked upwards, with Alba’s body weight hanging from it. That is what set Alba in motion.
Nothing causes a more immediate adrenaline surge of self-defense than being choked. Once out of nowhere a tall man standing beside me put a large pair of hands around my neck and started to squeeze. A half second later his feet were over his head and I was body slamming him into the floor. Felt like pure instinct.
Alba had been getting choked for a couple of seconds. He would absolutely have been urgent to save his life.
Then as soon as he managed to grab the knife Simon started reaching for it. That is reaching for a deadly weapon, the same as if Alba had picked up a gun and Simon tried to take it from him.
Simon could have jumped back and pleaded for his life: “you win, I give up, don’t shoot, don’t stab.” But he didn’t. He went for the weapon, totally justifying deadly force on Alba’s part.
So was the girlfriend acting in self-defense of her boyfriend when she stabbed Alba or joining in the attack?
I’m going with joining in the attack.
So, the woman is on assistance, that is what the EBT cards tells us right? So, we already know she is leech on society. Then she uses a word we can’t print (or speak) without facing hate crime charges, repeatedly uses the word. She uses that word in connection with a threat of physical harm toward the bodega worker. Then her n______ (rhymes with a Winnie the Pooh character, not Christopher Robin), arrives and calls the bodega worker a n_____, an act for which many would be charged with hates crimes or get murdered for. Her n_____ then verbally and physically assaults the bodega worker. The bodega worker stabs his attacker.
Pick the sympathetic figure (s) in this story. Your answer will tell me all I need to know before letting you into my life.
No, they are not. They signed up for a duly enacted program. If you don’t think we should have the program, then persuade legislators to discontinue it.
It’s called an OPINION. For some reason you seem to think yours are the only ones that matter. They’re not.
The woman has no legal claim to self defense or defense of others.
In general, one cannot start a conflict, and then plead defense. Even if the other party escalated the conflict to lethal force.
I believe New York, like many backwards Blue States, imposes a “duty to retreat”. That is, defense cannot be lawfully invoked so long as there was ability to remove yourself from the situation.
Puts me in mind of Matt Bracken’s “When the music stops”, written in 2012, supposing what would happen if EBT transactions got declined en masse.
” Even though it may have been justified self-defense on the part of Alba, the girlfriend was trying to save her boyfriend’s life, which I believe (I’m not an expert on this) would make it self-defense on her part”
The exact laws vary by state, but generally, self-defense is not applicable during the commission of a felony, so if Alba was being assaulted (which he was) and she was party to that assault (which she was), she has no legal self-defense claim (for herself or her boyfriend). As such, she should be charged (spoiler: she won’t be).
There are very rare cases where both sides can claim self-defense. There are common cases where neither side can claim self-defense (typical gang shoot-outs, for instance).
“It all started when that bast**d hit me back”…has evolved into…”It all started when that bast**d tried to prevent me from “f***ing him up”.
Yep, evolution, Democratic-party style….
Even though NYC is a strongly leftist regime, it still stuns me that DA Bragg has not dismissed these charges. Is he overly confident of his position, or is he just cruel?
What a jejune response. It may be a legal program but still the vile parasitical scum is using taxpayers money for a discretionary snack that many taxpayers have to cut back on in Biden’s economy.
It’s caloric content. The program is designed as a subsidy for groceries. If you want it limited to fruits, vegetables, and whole wheat bread, complain about that to your federal legislator. If that’s your idea of what it means to be ‘vile parasitical scum’, you might do the normies a favor and give us a wide berth.
It’s called an OPINION. For some reason you seem to think yours are the only ones that matter. They’re not.
I neither stated nor implied that.
I’ve got an opinion, too. My opinion is that the term ‘vile parasitical scum’ is very seldom appropriate. Sorry you fancy it.
Let’s not forget the culture that the aggressor(s) grew up in, that taught them lots of things, but not responsibility or respect.
The woman and Simon entered the store in the act of committing a crime (assaulting or worse the clerk). Thereafter if any deaths occurred then every party in instigating the commission the crime are guilty of committing murder.
IANAL, YMMV due to location. But you see it frequently in robberies and such. Some poor victim gets whacked then everybody on the crew goes down for murder.
Snidely Whiplash:
The crime has to be a felony. This wasn’t a felony, therefore the rule doesn’t apply.