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I think France may be lost — 70 Comments

  1. One of the most interesting French critics of Islamism in France is Eric Zemmour, whose parents are of North African Jewish origin. Because of his strong commitment to the assimilation of immigrants into the values of the French Republic, he is consistently criticized and demonized by leftists and Muslims for what they perceive to be his “bigotry”, his “xenophobia”, and his opposition to the radical agenda of the so-called “multicultural” and “anti-racist” left.

  2. Didn’t someone have a theory that once the Muslim population reached a certain percentage, then the country effectively became a Muslim country. Muslims – like the Left – just push so hard all the time. Another reason why we conservatives so loved Trump. He fought and put America first.

  3. RADICAL MUSLIMS ATTACK CIVILIANS

    French Surrender

    All joking aside France will lose its own country or they will drive out the invaders. Either way it will be ugly.

  4. Cornhead,

    It’s not a theory. It’s demonstrable fact. I forget the threshold, but one can analyze all the nations of the world and they break on one side of the line or the other, based on % of Muslims.

    Islam is a religion AND a political system. That’s not a metaphor.

  5. Didn’t someone have a theory that once the Muslim population reached a certain percentage, then the country effectively became a Muslim country.

    Yes. Many “muslims” have told me that magic number is 10%. They believe once they reach 10% of population they can begin to dominate.

  6. Islam is a religion AND a political system.

    Yes Islam is a political system “first” wrapped in religion that makes it hard to question and criticize. Hard for western nations to attack a religion when western nations preach “freedom of religion.”

  7. The tolerance seems to be based on self aggrandizing virtue signalling. ” We are better than you, because we accept everyone, no matter what “. It allows the Left to feel superior to the rest of us, the unclean.

  8. Israel has a much larger Muslim minority (20%) than does France, but seems to manage more congenial inter-group relations. France has the same problem the United States does: the political class despises the non-exotic wage earning majority, and will side with anyone against them. Israel doesn’t have this problem.

  9. SCOTTtheBADGER,

    Acceptance isn’t a problem, or the problem, I accept anyone in our nation who agrees to abide by the U.S. Constitution and the laws of their jurisdiction. Many on the Left feel they are being humane by allowing other people to follow a religious or cultural tradition that violates the U.S. Constitution and U.S., state and/or local law. Of course, they only do that when it’s not happening in their backyard.

    Not to kick a hornet’s nest, but this is also why it is so critical to keep the state and its laws out of areas of religion, including marriage traditions.

  10. Art+Deco,

    Are you serious?! I know you love statistics (hence your 20% figure), but do I even have to list the number of interfaith bombings, attacks and incursions in Israel? Fences, gates, walls, ID cards, checkpoints… So busy counting tree trunks you don’t even recognize you are in a forest. 😉

  11. I have counted most of western Europe lost to the Islamic states a couple years ago. The Leftists have given up every inch of Law Islamists have gobbled up, and their immigration problem is worse off than ours as ours in general isn’t out to destroy and over run us, Europe’s is worse.
    Read History of Jihad, Mo to ISIS, conquest is Islam’s goal.

  12. I love France but realize it is lost. I will not go there again because of my age but also because it makes me sad to see what is happening. What is worse is to see what is happening to my own country, not by Muslims but by race pimps.

  13. The US has the same problem. Our open border is analogous to leaving one’s front door wide open overnight, every night, sleeping upstairs without any self-protective device.

    We are getting close to the 10% threshold with totally untalented Hispanics that come to shake the fruits from our trees. We are reassured they are inherently “more conservative” because they are nominally Christian, not pagan, and that is pure BS.

    Just out of curiosity I checked on the availability of 12 gauge shotgun shells, skeet-shooting #8 shot, from major on-line sources, and nil are available. The only available shells in that very common gauge (tens of millions of shotguns out there) are buckshot and slug, at high prices, $310 for a case of 250 shells. The nation seems to be in prep for something, sub rosa. AR-15s, the Democrat-hated “assault weapons” are not the only 2nd Amendment weapon out there.

  14. Mark Steyn was on to the percentage threshold equation 10 years ago. He combined it with france’s low native birth rate to paint a grim picture of French France’s fate.

  15. Art+Deco:
    The 20% of Arab Muslims who are Israeli citizens are devoted to taking over Israel by outbreeding the Jews. These Arab women average 4 kids apiece.
    Muslims have seats in the Knesset, and are very vocally hostile to the Jewish state. Apparently only 60% graduate from high school.

  16. We are getting close to the 10% threshold with totally untalented Hispanics that come to shake the fruits from our trees.

    The employment-to-population ratio for three of the four coarse categories (whites, ‘Asians’, and ‘Hispanics’) is about the same. There’s no reserve army of the unemployed among hispanics any larger than what you find across the board. There are about 25 million employed hispanics. The number of agricultural wage laborers in toto is currently running at 335,000 (and not all of them are hispanic).

  17. He combined it with france’s low native birth rate to paint a grim picture of French France’s fate.

    The total fertility rate in France is currently 2.06 children per woman per lifetime, close to the highest in the occidental world. The total fertility rates for the three source countries of muslim immigration into France (Morocco, Algeria, and Tunisia) are 2.4, 3.1, and 2.06 respectively.

  18. Hard for western nations to attack a religion when western nations preach “freedom of religion.” ” – jack

    Western nations (or at least a substantial subset of their populations) aren’t having all that much trouble attacking Christianity and Judaism.

    It’s the other subset – the ones who see that Islam Inc. is using religion as a cover for political hegemony & violence – who preach “freedom of religion,” properly understood as personal belief and commitment not as theocracy.

    And it’s activists within that first subset who are trying to shut down the second.
    https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2021/april/canadian-police-place-barricade-at-church-entrance-with-fencing-tarps-to-keep-worshippers-out
    “UPDATE: Church Responds as Police Barricade Sanctuary While Pastor Awaits Trial for Breaking COVID Orders”

    Oh, wait; that’s just Canada – which also has a “First Amendment” style clause in their constitution, but apparently the government says: so what?

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9435037/Outraged-Polish-Catholic-worshippers-slam-police-shutting-Good-Friday-service.html
    “In a statement on Friday’s intervention, a police spokesperson said: ‘Officers attended and found a large number of people inside the church. Some people were not wearing masks and those present were clearly not socially distanced.”

    Some parishioners said otherwise.
    “Tomsz Niewiadomski, who was queuing to see the second mass of the day, said everyone inside on Friday was wearing masks and social distancing.

    The 39-year-old, who lives in nearby Streatham, south London, said: ‘Its not right what they did. The police didn’t seem to know the rules.

    ‘I was standing just inside the door at the back. They came in and said everyone was breaking the law before checking what was in place. They said no one was social distancing and it was unsafe.

    ‘But everyone was wearing masks and sitting apart from each other. There was a booking system so there was only a certain number of people inside.”

    Oh, wait; that’s in Britain – which doesn’t even have a constitution, much less a First Amendment.

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/coronavirus-police-church-defy-state-order
    Finally – one in Louisiana
    Oh wait, that’s from March 2020.

    https://www.npr.org/2021/04/10/986010977/supreme-court-rules-for-worshippers-and-against-california-covid-restrictions
    “For the fifth time, the U.S. Supreme Court has sided with religious adherents and against California’s COVID-19 restrictions. This time, the court barred the state from enforcing a rule that for now limits both religious and non-religious gatherings in homes to no more than three households.”

    So, there have been FIVE rulings against the Covid-tyranny of government leaders – in the country that has a real Constitution with a real First Amendment – and they still don’t get it.

    I guess the message is: bomb buildings and behead teachers all you want, but don’t you dare not wear a (totally useless) mask and “social distance” in a church building (because, of course, it’s okay to be in a Social Justice crowd who are actually burning buildings, although they haven’t reached the decapitation stage – yet).

  19. Daniel’s vision of Feet of clay and iron. Two peoples that will not stick together so well, that seem to emerge from the two halves of the Old Roman Empire….

  20. Art+Deco,

    Your data on European fertility rates appear wrong. The first three sources I checked had higher values than you for Muslim women (about 50% higher). Don’t know where you got your data, but even if I cede you your argument; based on your numbers non-Muslim women in France are breeding at a below replacement rate pace and 2 of the 3 Muslim groups are breeding at an above replacement rate pace. Extrapolate out a few generations and see what happens…

  21. Art+Deco,

    Ahh, I see your trick now. (Regarding Muslim immigrants to France) “43.2% from Algeria, 27.5% from Morocco and 11.4% from Tunisia.”

    So 70% come from the two regions with 25% – 50% higher fertility rates than native women, only 11% have a fertility rate = to French women, so you didn’t include that tidbit and wrote your comment to imply all three are relatively equal.

    Very clever! I prefer the truth to clever, but to each his own.

  22. I used to work in Europe a great deal. When I started, (early 90’s) I had the sense France would be a Muslim nation in the future on my first trip. Wasn’t really anything I was thinking about, or concerned about, but the Muslim sections I was in seemed vibrant, full of youth, children, the native sections full of middle aged, childless people. The Catholic churches and cathedrals were full of tourists but empty for services. 20 years later Germany and England had that vibe also.

    My current parish had a wonderful Priest. A native of India. From the same town where the Apostle Thomas did the first conversions in India 2,000 years prior. His dream was to get an assignment in Europe, the seat of Catholicism, and he achieved his goal. After about 10 years he begged for a transfer to the U.S. He grew tired of preaching to empty pews in Europe. But what did Christianity ever do for Europe? I’m sure when the last church is converted to a museum everything will continue on swimmingly. A new Renaissance!

  23. A couple of follow-ups.
    https://opentheword.org/2021/04/12/christians-tear-down-police-barricade-around-church-canada/

    In images, you would only expect to see in Communist China, Christians in the Canadian province of Alberta tried tearing down barricades that the police had put up around GraceLife church in Spruce Grove, AB to prevent people from attending this week’s Sunday service (April 11, 2021).

    The church, that also had its pastor jailed for 35 days, has been holding services in defiance of the province’s lockdown that limits services to just 15% of capacity.

    The RCMP, who were just obeying orders, responded by sending in dozens of police to rebuild the barricade.
    ..
    Lawyers with the Justice Centre, a non-profit legal organization, that has been representing the church in its fight against the government, has repeatedly asked the province’s health department for its evidence that lockdowns actually work. To this point health officials have refused to provide the scientific evidence or as most suspect, likely do not have any.

    In fact, the science says that lockdowns don’t work:
    (lots of links)

    The Daily Mail noted this in its story of the closing of the Polish Catholic church in the middle of the Good Friday mass, which I missed the first time around:

    “Meanwhile, just under five miles away at a crowded Parliament Square, thousands of protestors gathered at a Kill the Bill rally chanting, banging drums and waving placards before scuffles broke out with police.”

  24. AesopFan,

    My parish is enforcing social distancing and requiring masks. Last Sunday’s mass was the first service I’ve been to in a year where some attendees had to stand*. Keep in mind, the pews were not crowded, about 25% capacity because of the enforced spacing, so the mass was nowhere near a normal attendance of 15 month’s prior, but there was no seating available. So, about 30 of us ended up standing, shoulder to shoulder. I was not concerned, nor was anyone else, but I thought it was funny that in order to adhere to an arbitrary rule we had 2/3 of the seats empty and about 10% of attendees standing together in a tight area.

    *Even when seating in pews has been available with social distancing some people have still preferred to stand in the back.

  25. AesopFan …

    You brought many examples of government attacking religion … BUT not ONE attacking Islam. Is that because you couldn’t find one?

  26. I almost moved to France in 2005. I was married to a woman from Avignon, who came to me in the USA, and she came close to talking me into it. We even looked at properties in the Avignon area But the situation with young Muslims in the cities was getting bad even then. What really made an impression on me was when a carful of Muslim “youths” drove around Avignon at 3:30 in the morning blasting out angry sermons by some imam, just to wake people up and remind everyone they were there. One never saw them alone; they traveled in packs.

    I thought this kind of thing was only going to get worse.

  27. Islam is a political system wrapped in the cloak of a religion. The Left is a religion wrapped in the cloak of a political system.

    Each seeks to use the other against their main enemy, those who love individual freedom. Each also thinks they will come out on top in the end. I pray they’re both wrong.

  28. Your data on European fertility rates appear wrong. The first three sources I checked had higher values than you for Muslim women (about 50% higher). Don’t know where you got your data, but even if I cede you your argument; based on your numbers non-Muslim women in France are breeding at a below replacement rate pace and 2 of the 3 Muslim groups are breeding at an above replacement rate pace. Extrapolate out a few generations and see what happens…

    I offered you data on tfr in France and tfr on the source countries for Muslim immigration.

  29. Ahh, I see your trick now. (Regarding Muslim immigrants to France) “43.2% from Algeria, 27.5% from Morocco and 11.4% from Tunisia.”

    There was no trick. You’re having problems with reading comprehension.

  30. Another Art Deco tactic, when questioned, he essentially says the questioner is deficient/defective. It is predictable and old.

  31. Another Art Deco tactic, when questioned, he essentially says the questioner is deficient/defective. It is predictable and old.

    He’s pretending to have been tricked by a two sentence comment which could not have been clearer. You’re being your usual creepy stalker self.

  32. “BUT not ONE attacking Islam. Is that because you couldn’t find one?” – jack

    Actually, I did look, on Duck-Duck-Go via Brave to avoid Google.
    The very few stories I found were about how (selected) American mosques were following masking, distancing, and attendance limits, and cancelling some meetings, including Ramadan last year (a general national story).
    I found none which were either defiant (as in Canada) or invaded (as in England).

    Now, that could be because there are no non-compliant mosques/Muslims; or no official notice being taken of non-compliant mosques/Muslims; or no media reports of notice being taken.
    Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence on any front.

    Not too surprisingly, I did find this report from December:
    https://www.meforum.org/61860/violent-islamists-given-federal-covid-grants

  33. Update on the Gracelife Church in Canada.
    The people pulling down the fences were not all congregants.
    There is increasing public opposition to the Government.

    https://notthebee.com/article/gracelife-has-become-the-first-official-underground-church-in-canada-after-authorities-fenced-off-their-building-john-macarthur-says-they-are-meeting-somewherewe-dont-know-where
    “I’ve worked with my fair share of underground churches in totalitarian nations.

    I never thought Canada would be one of them.

    Gracelife Church in Alberta had their pastor, James Coates, imprisoned for a month. Last week, their building was raided and a fence was constructed around the building. It is now guarded by scores of police.

    Authorities sent over TWO HUNDRED COPS to keep worshippers from the building this Sunday:”

    Christians tend to be really peaceful non-rioters.
    Until one day, they aren’t.

  34. The number of nascent terrorists in Goutte D’Or is nontrivial, as the academics say.

  35. I wonder (no I don’t) what will happen to the Left once the Muslim population does gain supremacy. I think the US should be ready to block flights from France at any time.

  36. The eventual winner is always the group producing the most offspring.

    Yasser Arafat declared his secret weapon to be the womb of the Palestinian woman.

    That’s also be the weapon used against the French.

    Once asked: when there are no more French in France, will it still be France?

  37. Crossing the Channel, see Rotherham and the grooming gangs. When if finally blew up, a MP said the Rotherham cops were afraid of being called islamophobic. The cops denied it, saying they hadn’t seen ten years of grooming, rape, pimping of mostly underage girls. Maybe 1500 girls.
    Turns out they lied. It was all about not annoying the Muslim community.
    and see, if you have the stomach ‘rock the multicultural boat” and “rotherham” for an endless list of hits about not wanting to make Muslims upset or look bad or make western values prevail when it comes to victimizing people.
    Still happening.

  38. }}} I think France may be lost

    I knew that over a decade ago, when the first reports of roving muslim rape gangs accosting French women right off the street, taking them somewhere and gang-raping them were being suppressed by French merdia, and being treated as “they’re barbarians… what are we supposed to do?” by the government…

    AGAIN:
    ========================================================
    PostModern Liberalism is a SOCIAL CANCER. Not figuratively, literally
    ========================================================

    Until people address this problem, the West is doomed. And with it, all the benefits it has brought. We face a new dark age, with a finger on the nuclear trigger.

    We are watching the self-inflicted collapse of modern civilization, because we refuse to recognize the real enemy is our own Fifth Column.

  39. }}} Once asked: when there are no more French in France, will it still be France?

    Not once all the great works of art and architecture have been trashed and destroyed by the future ISIS-type government.

    That’s the REAL shame. No more Mona Lisa. No more Sistine Chapel.

    The French are making their own Hell, so they deserve it on some levels… But the loss of some of the greatest creations of humanity to mindless barbarians is just…. SMH.

    It’s already happened in China, under Mao. Now it’s going to happen in Europe, under Islam.

    And we’re likely to see it here, under the Woke Left.

    Social.
    Cancer.

    >:-/

  40. geoff+b @12:02am,

    That’s a concise way to state our current situation. I will likely borrow that.
    Throw in the Chinese, Russians and North Koreans, and their motus operandi and it doesn’t look good for individual freedom.

  41. Mark Steyn’s, “America Alone” is an excellent book on this subject. I believe Douglas Murray’s, “Strange Death of Europe” also covers Islam and fertility rates, but I have not read it. Many folks whose opinions and reporting I generally admire have spoken highly of Murray’s work also.

  42. P.S., in regards to this: “No more Sistine Chapel.”

    Yes, The Vatican. France is just the first domino. The rest of Europe will follow.

  43. }}} It’s a “poll” and we all know what polls are worth these days.

    Only when they say what The Left wants you to hear.

    The idea that Le Pen is that popular is NOT something The Left wants ANYONE to hear.

  44. Not once all the great works of art and architecture have been trashed and destroyed by the future ISIS-type government.

    You need to get a grip.

    The troublesome sector among France’s muslims are a problem, but they’re a manageable problem.

    The trouble you have in France is what you’ve got in pretty much every occidental country (some of the old East Bloc excepted). The political class and much of the professional-managerial element despise the native vernacular. They use different means to suppress their viewpoint and harass them. Import Arab muslims, import Mexican mestizos, transfer power to appellate judges or supranational bodies; use the courts, the tax inspectors, the regulators as instruments of lawfare. It’s all one.

  45. Est-ce-qu’on a perdu la France? (to almost-quote a famous Corsican) Well, we shall see, we shall see….

    Rufus, I’m positive that Murray does discuss that in said book. I’m thinking back to his interview a while back with Peter Robinson about it. (Or was that a combination interview including The Madness of Crowds? Maybe.) Okay, okay, now I have to look it up… https://youtu.be/eQXHc-tJMXM from mid-2019.

  46. That’s not a serious problem, it’s the lack of a grip, and then describe a bigger manifestation of the problem. Get a bigger grip? 🙂

  47. A poll has revealed that in a second-round run-off of the 2022 French presidential elections, populist candidate Marine Le Pen would defeat nearly all of the proposed left-wing candidates.

    For the time being, it’s the bourgeois technocratic element around Macron that’s the protagonist, not any of the left parties.

    Over the last 8 years, the left vote in France has largely abandoned the Socialist Party and gone is a half-dozen different directions. Something of the same happened to the old SFIO after 1958; it took until 1971 for Francois Mitterand to assemble the more co-operative factions of the non-Communist left into a coherent organization and send the less co-operative into electoral oblivion, while concluding a working agreement with the Communist Party. One might guess that Jean-Luc Mélanchon will manage this, but it may take a few years. The communist parties are now to inconsquential to be much of a force, so what you might see is Mélanchon assembling an omnibus red party and some other element a unified green party, and the two coming to an understanding. OTOH, what may happen in France is what’s happened in Israel and several East European countries: the left evaporates and the polarity in political life is between nationalist-populists and social-liberals.

  48. The French can be very brutal; see the Vendee Rebellion (1793-1795). This very bloody event has gotten little notice probably because it was French vs. French and because of the atrocities committed.

    See here:

    https://quillette.com/2019/03/10/the-french-genocide-that-has-been-air-brushed-from-history/

    If push comes to shove in France, I don’t think the French will show much leniency.

    Sweden is also heading for a sizable Muslim population (majority?) and, as you would expect, the govt there – the elites – are covering up the fact that MOST crimes there are committed by these immigrants.
    Sooner or later the average Swede will be forced to so something, regardless of what their govt. dictates.

  49. Turns out they lied. It was all about not annoying the Muslim community.

    I have a suspicion if you unpacked it that you’d discover the ultimate source of the problem was the local social work agencies and the family court judges, not the police. Social work is a pseudo-profession that is properly dismantled.

  50. Sweden is also heading for a sizable Muslim population (majority?)

    About 8% of Sweden’s population is Muslim. I’ll wager that an 11-fold increase in the ratio of muslims to non-muslims is not something you’ll see in the near future. Some fraction of the muslim population is indigenous to the Balkans and has a European fertility pattern.

  51. Yasser Arafat declared his secret weapon to be the womb of the Palestinian woman.

    The parts of the old Mandate of Palestine his outfit controls are an economic ruin. The parts controlled by Hamas are in worse shape. And the Arabs in Israel are no more fecund than are the Jews. So, how’s that working out for him?

  52. JohnTyler:

    Yes, the French have a reputation for not messing about when it comes to their domestic security. See, for example, the “Paris massacre” of October 1961, when the police killed between 40 (official figure) and 300 (unofficial estimate) Algerian demonstrators. I recall reading someone who said that you really don’t want to “come to the attention” of the French police. And despite the ill-informed sneering on this side of the ocean about French military prowess, the French Army put up a desperate fight and took heavy casualties in May-June 1940, in Indochina, and in Algeria. We would do well to remember that France was at war continuously from 1939 until 1962 and has not been shy about dropping the paras into its former colonies in Africa. Anybody who has visited Paris and seen the three-man hard-eyed police patrols (with FAMAS automatic rifles) in the train stations, the Metro, and around government buildings knows that the French take security seriously.

    At least, they used to. As we’ve learned in this country, rot spreads fast.

  53. In 2007 I read Melanie Phillips book ‘Londonistan’. About five years ago I read Michel Houellebecq’s ‘Submission’ (which predicted the Islamic takeover of France), and a couple of years ago read ‘The Strange Death of Europe’ by Douglas Murray. All of these books discuss the slow death of Europe directed by it’s own leadership. In between reading these books, over the years, all of us have seen articles about areas in France, or England, or Sweden, Belgium that are their own country, un-policed, and un-trafficked. Jews have fled Malmo, France, Germany, and parts of England. Germany is percolating into a coming race conflict. And Italy is still trying to cope with it’s own ‘Camp of the Saints’, from the flood of immigrants coming out of North Africa. While here in the US, the Biden-Harris Oligarchy has opened the house wide up, and told the world, send us whomever, just as long as they vote Democrat every two years, we’ll pay for the rest.

    Western Civilization has stopped having children at replacement rates, but they won’t need to. They are already being…here’s that word- replaced. The waves of immigrants that have been ‘invited’ into Western Europe, Canada, and the US are having babies- in large numbers. They are here or coming, and they are having children. We’re so sophisticated we’re sophisticating ourselves out of existence.

  54. The French government caved because French businesses took a financial hit during the Covid recession. Policy positions are changed when they fail to meet the needs of the politicians. The very left Swedish (open boarders) government implemented hard immigration laws (eg effectively closed boarders) because the citizenry started voting for other parties. In the US, the Democratic Biden administration is following the Trump anti-China position. This is in direct conflict with the needs of the tech and entertainment industries that supported the Biden campaign.

  55. JohnTyler:

    I don’t think the French will ever again muster up the kind of diabolical brutality against anyone — let alone against The Poor Helpless Victims Of White Oppression And Colonization — that they exhibited against the Vendée.

    Doing that kind of thing requires not only a mob of leftists — the French have plenty of those — but, specifically, young leftists, itching for action. Antifa could do it. The Hitler Youth (but I repeat myself) could do it. But I doubt that France contains, anywhere within its borders, sufficient population between the ages of 15 and 25 matching the necessary criteria; namely,
    (a.) non-Muslim;
    (b.) neither jaded into cynicism nor softened into quiescence by pornography and food and addiction-to-screens;
    (c.) having nothing much else to do, no plans they’re invested in, and nothing much they’re worried about losing;
    (d.) sufficiently ideological to be willing to kill and burn and loot; and,
    (e.) holding an ideology that doesn’t make them want to side with the Muslims.

    I think youthful French citizens matching those criteria are rare.

    In fact, in that age range, I wouldn’t be surprised if the male population matching those descriptors is outnumbered in absolute terms by the Muslim population in the same range. To be sure, when all age ranges are considered, there are more secular (and a scattered few Christian*) French citizens than Muslim ones, but they’re mostly older. Grandfathers, with or without gilets jaunes, don’t show up by thousands to swing pipes and hurl Molotov cocktails on the streets of Marseilles.

    So, when you say, “the French can be very brutal,” I agree as a matter of history. But that’s history. And I think the argument contains an equivocation; namely, that “the French” back then are a very different people-group from “the French” now. The new crowd may or may not go “gentle into that goodnight,” but I don’t see them becoming a brutal extermination force like they were against the Vendée**.

    * I grant that standard demography for France lists 51% of the population as Christian, but I describe Christians in France as “a scattered few” precisely because such a tiny slice of France’s “Christians” are detectably serious about their Christianity. For the rest of the “Christians” in France, their connection to the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob is notional, a lightly-held aesthetic fondness. It upset them when Notre Dame burned; but they hadn’t personally darkened the door of a church for devotional purposes even once in the decade prior. They are functionally secularist, but feel that to describe themselves as such in surveys would be in poor taste.

    Now, for the purposes of anyone who wishes to organize a deadly campaign against Muslims in France, this is actually good news. Serious Christians would not act against Muslims the way the French Republicans acted against the Vendée. They would be more likely to defend the Muslims against assaults by secularists, and view the secularists as “Robespierre’s assassins, all over again.” (The Vendée, indeed, were the serious Catholics, who opposed the secularism of the Republic.) Even in the “Bible Belt” of the U.S., it isn’t the leaders of youth Bible studies, with their WWJD shirts and virginity-until-marriage vows, who act nastily towards the young atheists in their classrooms; it’s rather the nominally-Christian kid with the bad, unstable family situation, who can’t locate John 3:16 in his Bible without consulting the index, but who reacts quasi-patriotically to a classmate’s iconoclasm as an attack on his tribe…much as a gang-member reacts to someone wearing the wrong colors on his street. Cultural/Ethnic “Christians” can be persuaded to become oppressors; but the believers are more apt to imitate their Lord by being martyrs.

    So if they were sufficiently youthful, I could see the 51% “Christians” and the 40% secularists mustering, between them, a subset willing to assert themselves against French Muslims without being hopelessly outnumbered by them. If they were all 15 to 25 years old, that subset might still constitute half of the French population even after the serious Christians, the ideologically-opposed secularists, the too-jaded-to-act, and the too-invested-to-risk segments were removed.

    That’s if they were youthful. But I bet they’re all in their forties, fifties, and sixties. No dice.

    ** And by-the-way, I would regard it as a grave evil if the French did act against Muslims as they did against the Vendée. In everything I wrote above, I am dispassionately discussing the odds of such a thing happening: I think them very low. This should in no way be construed as a hope that it happen; I don’t hope for any such thing. Do I hope France’s future is majority-Christian rather than majority-Muslim? Of course! But not that way.

  56. Art. WRT Rotherham. Both. At one point, two Sikh fathers who went to retrieve their daughters were themselves arrested.

  57. I don’t think the French will ever again muster up the kind of diabolical brutality against anyone — let alone against The Poor Helpless Victims Of White Oppression And Colonization — that they exhibited against the Vendée.

    They don’t need ‘diabological brutality’. They just need to quit with the own goals.

  58. I thought this article was a good overview of the “Asian” grooming gangs case in the greater Yorkshire area. Here is paragraph three.

    What ensued was Operation Augusta, an attempt to identify and prosecute these malefactors. The gangs, [cop Maggie] Oliver learned, were no secret to social workers, who’d been trying for years to get the police to shut them down. One reason why police had refused was that national “performance indicators” rewarded them for solving burglaries and robberies, not child rapes. Another reason was that they saw the girls not as rape victims but as prostitutes. (This was largely a class issue: virtually all of the victims were working-class girls whom the police considered “white trash.”) Finally, the cops knew that if they started cuffing Muslim men, they’d be tagged as racists in the Guardian and by members of what the Brits like to call “certain communities.”

  59. Do we really think Rotherham was the beginning and end of it?

    When a group gets a pass because they’re political kryptonite, what incredible self-discipline it must take not to take advantage of that fact.

  60. Jamie. No, Rotherham isn’t the beginning and the end. Rochdale had the same thing going on but Rotherham got all the ink.It’s what is called, I think the “type ideal” or some such. It’s a generic term.

  61. “The troublesome sector among France’s muslims are a problem, but they’re a manageable problem.” – Art Deco

    IF someone in government take an interest in actually managing the problem instead of just managing around it.

  62. However, I do not count the Vendée “populicide” as “managing” – what a horrific tale, and no wonder the French kept it under cover.

    Even more frightening were the parallels to the Russian, Chinese, and other “populicides” during and after their own revolutions, and Book of Mormon readers will find the accounts similar to ancient genocides recorded therein.

    Even MORE frightening are the parallels to current policies and rhetoric of the Democrats about Deplorables.

    There is a reason they want the Second Amendment neutered.

  63. }} Import Arab muslims, import Mexican mestizos, transfer power to appellate judges or supranational bodies; use the courts, the tax inspectors, the regulators as instruments of lawfare. It’s all one.

    Sorry, no, Art. There is a massive difference in the natural destabilizing effect of immoderate muslims (20% to 60% of all muslims, depending on how you break on “immoderate” — 20% are violent, but the other 40% will support the violent, so enable it) and mexicans.

    Yeah, there are idiot mexicans who support “La Raza”, but they are about as common as actual nazis and skinheads in america.

    And go ahead, tell me allllll you know about the areas in both France and Sweden where cops JUST DON’T GO.

    Tell me allll about how the French silence police reports about the roving gangs of Islamic thugs kidnapping French women off the streets and gang raping them.

  64. Sorry, no, Art. There is a massive difference in the natural destabilizing effect of immoderate muslims (20% to 60% of all muslims, depending on how you break on “immoderate” — 20% are violent, but the other 40% will support the violent, so enable it) and mexicans.

    It’s ‘destabilizing’ in direct proportion to the unwillingness of elite sectors and professional-managerial people to promulgate and enforce impersonal standards.

    Troublesome as Muslim immigrants may be in the political realm, you’d have to make a very involved case if you wanted to advance the thesis that they’re the source of social violence. All Western European countries have low homicide rates. (Arab countries do too, as a rule).

  65. France has long allied with Islam against Europe and promoted itself as representing Islamic values against European values.

    Francis I allied with the Sultan of Turkey against the Hapsburgs after the Siege of Vienna.

    France’s submission to Islam wasn’t only the royal policy: Napoleon intended to “liberate” the Moslems oppressed by Great Britain.

    After WW2, France allowed millions of Moslems to emigrate to France, where radical emigres have attacked Jews and French patriots alike.

    The elite of France are traitors and have been for centuries.

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