My reaction #2 to the Trump-Raffensperger phone call
When I found and read a transcript here, it came as no surprise that Trump’s call with Raffensperger had been mischaracterized by the MSM as nefarious, when the actual call versus MSM discussion of the call seems to have been much as shipwreckedrew describes it here: “a case study in the media duplicity that President Trump has battled from day one.”
I suggest you read the transcript (or listen to the call, if you have more time and patience, or both). I believe you will find that it is basically a lawyer’s conference in which, as shipwreckedcrew writes:
…[T]he conversation immediately went to the basis for the election dispute lawsuit in Georgia and the position of the Trump Campaign as expressed in the complaint it has filed.
Much later in the call, closer to the end, Meadows comments on a possible follow-up meeting which would be considered part of further efforts to reach a settlement, “just like the call” — or words to that effect.
That was the first confirmation that I heard that the reason for the call taking place was to look for a settlement or narrowing of issues in dispute in the matter pending in state court in Georgia. From that perspective — which every IDIOT journalist whose stories I read failed to mention or understand that as part of providing context for the call — the President’s comments and Raffensperger’s responses made perfect sense.
These were adverse parties in pending litigation on the call, along with their counsel and advisors. Each side was arguing the facts and stating the case from their respective points of view. The President was not trying to “coopt” Raffensperger, he was trying to convince Raffensperger that the facts as alleged in the complaint filed were correct, and the Trump Campaign had the evidence to back them up.
The bulk of the call was Trump’s recitation of a litany of allegations of many different types of election fraud in Georgia, and Raffesnperger’s (and his lawyers’) denial. What emerged was that Trump and his team have been frustrated at receiving little or no specific information that refutes their charges of fraud, other than these generalized reassurances that Georgia hasn’t found any fraud to speak of. And Trump’s statements that the MSM has treated as suggesting that Raffensperger illegally “find” votes for Trump that weren’t cast is completely unsupported by the call. That exchange actually refers to Trump’s suggestion of some combination of throwing out illegally cast votes as well as allowing legally cast votes for Trump (such as provisional ballots that may not yet have been counted, and involve people who came to the polls and discovered that someone else had already voted in their name).
I also think that some of the context of what Trump said may have been this sort of thing, news of which just came out a few days ago. Excerpt:
Georgia election data indicates that more than 30,000 votes were removed from President Donald Trump and another 12,173 votes were switched to Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden, data scientists testified on Dec. 30 during a state Senate hearing.
Lynda McLaughlin from the Data Integrity Group, along with data scientists Justin Mealey and Dave Lobue, presented the results before the Georgia Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Elections.
They testified on Dec 30 but their data was available online about a week earlier.
Some excerpts from Trump’s remarks from the transcript [“Brad” is Raffensperger; emphasis added]:
So I guess with all of it being said, Brad, the bottom line, and provisional ballots, again, you know, you’ll have to tell me about the provisional ballots, but we have a lot of people that were complaining that they weren’t able to vote because they were already voted for. These are great people.
And, you know, they were shellshocked. I don’t know if you call that provisional ballots. In some states, we had a lot of provisional ballot situations where people were given a provisional ballot because when they walked in on November 3 and they were already voted for.
So that’s it. I mean, we have many, many times the number of votes necessary to win the state.
Here Trump is talking about signature verification problems:
The only way you can do a signature verification is go from the one that signed it on November whatever. Recently. And compare it to two years ago, four years ago, six years ago, you know, or even one. And you’ll find that you have many different signatures. But in Fulton, where they dumped ballots, you will find that you have many that aren’t even signed and you have many that are forgeries.
Okay, you know that. You know that. You have no doubt about that. And you will find you will be at 11,779 within minutes because Fulton County is totally corrupt…
And they’re going around playing you and laughing at you behind your back, Brad, whether you know it or not, they’re laughing at you. And you’ve taken a state that’s a Republican state, and you’ve made it almost impossible for a Republican to win because of cheating, because they cheated like nobody’s ever cheated before. And I don’t care how long it takes me, you know, we’re going to have other states coming forward…
I have to find 12,000 votes, and I have them times a lot. And therefore, I won the state. That’s before we go to the next step, which is in the process of right now.
“Find” is through this process of uncovering fraud, obviously – which he goes on and on about. Now, you may think his belief in this fraud is delusional and/or mistaken, but he clearly believes it has happened and has very specific information about it – information we’ve discussed in many posts here already.
This is what Trump says about Kemp, with the cadences of New York:
You treated the population of Georgia so badly. You, between you and your governor, who is down at 21, he was down 21 points. And like a schmuck, I endorsed him, and he got elected, but I will tell you, he is a disaster.
The people are so angry in Georgia, I can’t imagine he’s ever getting elected again, I’ll tell you that much right now. But why wouldn’t you want to find the right answer, Brad, instead of keep saying that the numbers are right? ’Cause those numbers are so wrong?
Then lawyer Cleta Mitchell refers to the election case in Georgia that has yet to be heard, the one that shipwreckedcrew previously wrote about here. Mitchell says this, which I think is an excellent point:
…[T]he people of Georgia and the people of America have a right to know the answers. And you have data and records that we don’t have access to.
And you can keep telling us and making public statement that you investigated this and nothing to see here. But we don’t know about that. All we know is what you tell us. What I don’t understand is why wouldn’t it be in everyone’s best interest to try to get to the bottom, compare the numbers, you know, if you say, because .?.?. to try to be able to get to the truth because we don’t have any way of confirming what you’re telling us. You tell us that you had an investigation at the State Farm Arena. I don’t have any report. I’ve never seen a report of investigation. I don’t know that is. I’ve been pretty involved in this, and I don’t know. And that’s just one of 25 categories.
But this is the quote from Trump that was especially noteworthy to me. It reminds me of Trump’s riffs in his speeches [my emphasis]:
And Stacey Abrams is laughing about you [Raffensperger]. She’s going around saying these guys are dumber than a rock. What she’s done to this party is unbelievable, I tell you. And I only ran against her once. And that was with a guy named Brian Kemp, and I beat her. And if I didn’t run, Brian wouldn’t have had even a shot, either in the general or in the primary. He was dead, dead as a doornail. He never thought he had a shot at either one of them. What a schmuck I was. But that’s the way it is. That’s the way it is. I would like you .?.?. for the attorneys .?.?. I’d like you to perhaps meet with Ryan, ideally tomorrow, because I think we should come to a resolution of this before the [runoff] election. Otherwise you’re going to have people just not voting. They don’t want to vote. They hate the state, they hate the governor, and they hate the secretary of state. I will tell you that right now. The only people that like you are people that will never vote for you. You know that, Brad, right? They like you, you know, they like you. They can’t believe what they found. They want more people like you. So, look, can you get together tomorrow? And, Brad, we just want the truth. It’s simple.
And everyone’s going to look very good if the truth comes out. It’s okay. It takes a little while, but let the truth come out. And the real truth is, I won by 400,000 votes. At least. That’s the real truth.
With a little poetic license and a few tiny inconsequential changes, I can make it scan as a poem of five eight-line stanzas:
Stacey Abrams is laughing at you.
She’s going round saying
You’re dumber than a rock.
What she’s done to this party
Is unbelievable.
And I only ran against her once.
And that was with a guy named Kemp,
And I beat her.
And if I hadn’t run,
He wouldn’t have had a shot,
Either in the general
Or in the primary.
He was dead,
Dead as a doornail.
He never thought he had a shot
At either one of them.
What a schmuck I was.
But that’s the way it is.
That’s the way it is.
I’d like for the attorneys
To meet with Ryan tomorrow,
Because we should come
To a resolution of this
Before the runoff.
Otherwise you’re going to have people
Not voting. They don’t want to vote.
They hate the state,
They hate the governor,
and they hate the secretary of state.
I’ll tell you that right now.
The only people who like you
Are people who’ll never vote for you.
You know that, Brad, right?
They like you, you know,
They like you.
They can’t believe what they found.
They want more people like you.
So, can you get together tomorrow?
And, Brad, we just want the truth.
It’s simple. We just want the truth.
And everyone’s going to look very good
if the truth comes out.
It’s okay.
It takes a little while,
but let the truth come out.
And the real truth is,
I won by 400,000 votes at least.
That’s the real truth.
Is that the real truth? We don’t know, and at this point I don’t think we’ll ever know. The court system certainly isn’t about to help us learn, and neither is Brad Raffensperger.
Lauren Chen, a bright and engaging young writer for The Blaze, posted on her Twitter that those who consider this recorded call “comparable” to Watergate are one of three things, ignorant of Watergate or unfamiliar with the entire call or dishonest hacks. She adds that there is nothing corrupt about requesting transparency in the investigation of electoral irregularities. Such a sensible approach is completely absent from the hysterical caterwauling emanating from the very same morons in the media who, very recently, were screaming “Russia, Russia, Russia” about the undeniable corruption of the entire Biden clan.
“And you can keep telling us and making public statement that you investigated this and nothing to see here. But we don’t know about that. All we know is what you tell us. What I don’t understand is why wouldn’t it be in everyone’s best interest to try to get to the bottom, compare the numbers, you know, if you say, because .?.?. to try to be able to get to the truth because we don’t have any way of confirming what you’re telling us.” lawyer Cleta Mitchell
And all the Trump and his team will continue to know is what Raffensburger tells them because he’s part of the coup. And of course getting to the bottom of the fraud is manifestly not in the interest of those holding the data, i.e. Raffensburger and Kemp. The very last thing the coup plotters want to do is for the truth to come out.
Criminals do not volunteer to expose their criminality.
j e,
They’re not all morons, some of them know full well what they do.
The ends simply justify whatever means are necessary.
In their minds they’re not lying, simply offering a ‘higher truth’.
Nor do ideological fanatics ever question their ideological gods or ever take personal responsibity for the tragedies they’ve wrought.
Geoffrey Britain (4:59 pm) suggests,
“In their minds they’re not lying, simply offering a ‘higher truth’.”
Taqiyya?
In California, conversations during mediation/settlement efforts are privileged and cannot be used against you to prove liability or otherwise. There is a similar law in Georgia (Ev. Code section 24-4-408) that holds: Evidence of conduct or statements made in compromise negotiations or mediation shall not be admissible.
So there is no “evidence” (in the most recent definition of the term) that Trump said anything during this conversation.
But the rules don’t apply when it doesn’t benefit Dems because reasons, I guess.
Thank you for posting this.
Anyone wanna bet against Brad getting well paid to remain a faithful liar?
Or they’ve got his kidporn stash or a set-up to make it look like his kidporn stash.
Remember when Montage thought this was a big ‘GOTCHA!’? Fun times, fun times.
Also, I see the US Attorney for Georgia resigned today. That can’t be a coincidence. Did he balk at an order?
Remember when Montage thought this was a big ‘Gotcha’? Fun times, fun times.
Fractal Rabbit: It seems like it was only yesterday!
There are two types of people in America, those who will listen to the whole tape or read the full transcript to decide for themselves, and those who will only read the manipulative headlines and let the media decide for them.
Montage is in hiding again, guess this hoax is not going well
um — just an oversight I assume — but sure you meant to write “womanipulative” there instead, eh Dave? These times hustle along apace; it’s near impossible to keep up with the changes.
MJR,
Indeed. In their minds, ideological fanatics always justify themselves, no matter how monstrous their actions. It’s rationalization writ large… they tell themselves they never would have had to act that way, if only people had simply accepted ‘the truth’.
I never believe what I read in the Democrat media until it’s confirmed by more sensible sources. In this case, like the Ukraine call, there’s nothing whatever wrong with what Trump and his lawyers said.
Zuckerberg, Bloomberg, many Hollywood celebrities, the Open Society Foundation, and others have poured millions into Georgia. There are limits on amounts that can be given to campaigns, but money can be used to buy votes, and to buy influence. A Republican governor and SoS who can’t ensure an honest election? Yes, Stacy Abrams and her judge sister are throwing their weight (and lot of out of state money) around. And it sure looks like the Repubs are running scared or are bought off A good ole boy like Bad could never hope to acquire several million $ except by winning the lottery. Or by having it put in an offshore account in the Caymans. Sounds like a John Grisham plot, but there is definitely something rotten in Georgia.
Raffensperger thy name is mud.
Brad is soft and fuzzy, like a Georgia peach, one gone rotten that is?
Rotten peaches
Rotting in the sun
Seems I’ve seen that devil fruit
Since the world begun
Elton John – Rotten Peaches (1971) With Lyrics!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSWpAqkCNBo
_________________________________
Interesting lineup. Terry Cox (from Pentangle) on drums. Rick Wakeman (soon to be from Yes) on organ.
Love the found poem, Neo. Brilliant. LOL!
We are too focused on what tomorrow will bring in GA.
It is the days, weeks, months after that matter. Tyranny awaits a GA loss.
We are well on our way to a “benign” one-party dictatorship. Employees of the Big Five- Facebook, Microsoft, Google, Twitter and Amazon, have poured many millions from their out-of-state coffers into the race, for the two unsavory Democrats. It would be hard to find two more roachy people than these.
neo, MollyG: I too appreciate “found poem” exercises.
Back in the halcyon days of the Iraq War, Hart Seely, a reporter and humorist, decided to assemble a collection of Rumsfeld quotes into found poetry. Seely intended it as an act of subversion to make Rumsfeld sound peculiar, funny and unintelligible.
As far as I’m concerned, Seely failed. One can say many things about Rumsfeld, but he was damn intelligent and far faster on his feet than the reporters playing Gotcha games with him. Take this well-known Rumsfeld quote given the Seely treatment:
____________________________________________
The Unknown
As we know,
There are known knowns.
There are things we know we know.
We also know
There are known unknowns.
That is to say
We know there are some things
We do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns,
The ones we don’t know we don’t know.
–“Pieces of Intelligence: The Existential Poetry of Donald H. Rumsfeld,” edited by Hart Seely
____________________________________________
Democrats made a big to-do about how stupid this Rumsfeld quote was, but any thoughtful, honest person — which apparently excludes Democrats — is aware this is reality and a competent leader had better include the “knowns,” “unknowns,” and “unknown unknowns” into his planning.
It’s also straight out of the Landmark Forum introductory lecture and made me wonder if Rumsfeld was a secret Landmark graduate.
I picked up this book of poetry a year ago.
Bigly: Donald Trump in Verse
by Rob Long
I think he meant it as satire to poke fingers at OrangeMan, but the recast speech texts actually come out as pretty decent modern verse.
Somebody should set this one to rap music or something.
huxley – the Left has made a lot of money poking fun at the Right that kind of backfires on them.
“All in the Family” is a case in point.
Fractal cited this news, although perhaps via a different post.
No speculations beyond the bare facts.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/us-attorney-in-georgia-abruptly-resigns
Here’s some analysis by Shipwrecked Crew
https://redstate.com/shipwreckedcrew/2021/01/04/troubling-development-as-us-attorney-for-northern-district-of-georgia-resigns-today-effective-immediately-n304204
Scott Johnson at Powerline has his observations up now.
He’s in the President’s camp, and is very troubled about the leaking of a legally protected settlement negotiation call.
(per AMartel above)
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2021/01/raffensperger-on-line-1.php
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2021/01/raffensperberger-on-line-2.php
Of course, everybody records everything these days.
However, since all of the parties on the call are lawyers and their clients, somebody should obviously be disbarred for leaking confidential matters subject to privilege on several axes.
Anyone wanna bet against Brad getting well paid to remain a faithful liar?
Oh, I think both were paid off. Kemp was paid to appoint Loeffler but he has probably some nice change for allowing the tank to change all the election laws. The corruption rivals Chicago in 1960 or Texas in 1948. I doubt the runoff will help.
AesopFan:
The “Bigly” book of Trump poetry was put together by Rob Long, a TV writer who is conservative enough to be part of the GLoP podcast — Jonah Goldberg, Rob Long and John Podhoretz. Which I found entertaining until I became too Trumpish to continue.
Nonetheless, “Bigly” was published by the conservative Regnery Press and Amazon includes conservative reviewers who say they enjoyed it.
huxley,
Rumsfeld might have added at the end, “and it’s the things we think are true but that just isn’t so, that end up biting us on the ass…”
Remember how Twitter, Facebook and pro Biden social media companies completely censored out the Hunter Biden laptop story citing it’s their policy not to allow dissemination of illegally or unethically obtained materials either through hacking or other inappropriate activities? What changed?
“…a case study in the media duplicity that President Trump has battled from day one.” Neo quoting shipwreckedcrew
On Sunday I was sitting in an airport waiting to board and for the entire 45 minutes every TV had CNN on with the lower banner stating Trump told someone to find votes. In times past I would have gotten on my phone to find out what happened. After 4 years of over-the-top media perfidy I continued playing gin and never gave any of it a second thought. The hatred physicsguy speaks of is a direct result of the constant propaganda and brainwashing that we in the lead up to this election discovered has been exceedingly successful. The Chinese investment in the media and social media structure of our Republic is a cancer that is killing us. Unless or until that changes I don’t see how we can hope for the rule of law to be unearthed.
Sorry Neo, Trump got himself in this position. GOTV efforts require good cooperation with local party organizations like it or not. Also the Republicans knew that mail in voting would be problematic. Only in California did they move to make it work for them. Trump’s lack of organization and ability to work with others has a cost. Beating on your party via twitter does not endear you to anyone as my experience in business bears out. People remember they were treated badly even if they try to remain professional. He spends far too much time blaming others for his shortcomings. Not very mature and not effective.
Not rolling over to the Rhino’s has a cost, Rhnos don’t care about that. Whigs, the sequel.
dirtyjobsguy:
Care to ‘splain this
https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2021/01/04/maccallum-grills-raffensperger-about-leaking-call-as-he-squirms-n304286
To quote the Rotten Peach Ratsenperger when asked about leaking the call: “it is what it is.” Nothing to see in Georgia, Orange Man Bad!
dirtyjobsguy:
More ‘splainin to do? Is this GOTV?
https://thepostmillennial.com/breaking-trump-georgia-election-eve
I shared this post on my FB page, and I added the caption, “The media in China and the media in America are both full of propaganda. The only difference is the Chinese realize it and Americans don’t.” Someone commented, “this is a joke post, right?”
Not exactly sure what he thinks is so funny about it. How blind do you have to be to not realize that not everything is what the media says it is?
How blind do you have to be to not realize that not everything is what the media says it is?
Natalie S.: Not to be contrary, but if all one consumes is the mainstream media and accepts the contempt in which conservative media is held, it’s not hard to believe that MSM is accurate for the most part and it is conservatives who are the problem.
Throw in group reinforcement and the cancel culture — mission accomplished.
dirtyjobsguy,
You have the cart before the horse. Trump’s tweets are a reaction to GOPe duplicity. The GOPe claims to fully support conservative principles. It then acts in support of opposing those principles. They’ve repeatedly done so. Recent example: limiting help to needful Americans gravely impacted by the lockdowns to an insulting $600… while voting to give hundreds of billions to other countries. A President rightly pointing out duplicity, hypocrisy and corruption by elected officials is not “beating them up” it’s holding them publicly accountable.
The corrupt, deeply hate the exposure of their corruption. And being corrupt, flip the truth labeling good… bad and bad… good.
The entire ( ok maybe a couple not) media is nothing but the Democrats Propaganda ministry
Couple days after election Bad Blue posted link to Pa’s vote tally. I added the negatives that very early came up more negatives to Sundowner but seemed not to have anything to do with Trump votes, but later Trump’s negatives were catching up to what Sundowner had and might have shown Trump votes were switched to Sundowner. American Thinker had a link two days ago that might explain why Sundowner early had negatives. I do not have the numbers any more
(only working from a tablet) but did post them in a comment at Bad Blue if that could be found.
Either way negatives show vote tampering
“The media in China and the media in America are both full of propaganda. The only difference is the Chinese realize it and Americans don’t.” – Natalie
https://thefederalist.com/2021/01/05/the-new-york-times-is-now-officially-chinese-communist-propaganda/
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