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What motivates Biden voters

The New Neo Posted on by

I’m going to make some generalizations in this post, of course. But I know a lot of Biden voters, and I’m writing about what I’ve observed.

As commenter “physicsguy” says:

Every Biden voter I know is only motivated by the goal of getting Trump out. That’s it. Harris and Biden’s qualifications, what they will do etc. NEVER enters into their thoughts. They want Trump GONE! In some very strange way that I can’t fathom, Trump represents an existential threat to their psyche.

And as commenter “kolnai” writes:

They’re probably also motivated by their assessment, which they will only admit in hushed tones to fellow partisans, that Biden will be President Potemkin.

I find it difficult to believe that anyone believes Biden will be wearing the pants in the relationship between the left and the American people. His insistence on his own independence from said left – “I beat them” – while proudly adopting the leftiest of them all as his running mate rings hollower than his proverbial foghorn.

I believe the first is the real motivation, the deepest and most basic motivation: get rid of Trump. And I believe the second is the excuse: Biden doesn’t matter because he’s not going to be in charge anyway.

The first is voiced loudly. The second is almost never voiced – perhaps not even in the silent internal voice. But I believe it’s the justification many Biden voters use for attempting to elect an obviously woefully inadequate (at best) Biden.

So, if “Trump represents an existential threat to their psyche” is the real reason, why is that the case? I don’t think it works the same for everyone, but I actually think it is surprisingly similar and that one really can generalize about it.

I was speaking recently with a friend who I think exemplifies this basic reaction. She’s not a leftist. She’s relatively well-informed politically, she’ a lifelong Democrat although not doctrinaire, and she’s intelligent. What she expressed was a personal revulsion that she could not explain adequately – and this is a person who is ordinarily highly articulate and even well-versed in the language of describing thoughts and emotions and how they go together.

But in the case of Trump she was reduced to saying that he disgusts her. When pressed, she added “the way he talks” and seemed to be referring to his insults. And yet this particular woman is not a fragile flower, and is a rather blunt person herself. So it remained mysterious to me.

Finally she added, “He embarrasses me. It embarrasses me that he’s the president of the United States.”

When she said that, I thought “Bingo! That’s the essence of it.” Something about Trump – or perhaps many things about Trump – are simply repugnant to a lot of people. Many are women, but there are plenty of men in the group as well.

Plus, Biden – and Obama as his surrogate (or is it the other way around?) – plays on people’s desire for less discord (these are quotes from Obama’s recent Pennsylvania speech):

And with Joe and Kamala at the helm, you’re not going to have to think about the crazy things they said every day. And that’s worth a lot. You’re not going to have to argue about them every day.

It just won’t be so exhausting. You might be able to have a Thanksgiving dinner without having an argument.

[Trump’s tweets and demeanor] embolden other people to be cruel and divisive and racist, and it frays the fabric of our society, and it affects how our children see things. And it affects the ways that our families get along. It affects how the world looks at America. That behavior matters. Character matters.

See how he touches on the same points that I’ve mentioned – included affecting “how the world looks at America”? For many people, this is on a visceral level.

Comments

What motivates Biden voters — 125 Comments

  1. The most irrational form of TDS continues to derive not from the left, but from the pseudo-right, most egregiously from the odious Lincoln Project, from The Dispatch and The Bulwark (both laughably irrelevant and moronic), as well as from many of the writers at National Review. To his credit, Ben Shapiro has recently announced his support for Trump, but very few former Never-Trumpers have had the courage or the sense to do likewise.

  2. I think you have it right here.

    The other side of this is, those on the other side simply cannot understand why Trump doesn’t bother us (or at least me) to the extent that he bothers them. A friend kept pressing me once: “I don’t understand how you as a moral person [??] could support Trump.” I guess I can’t explain that, either, except to say: “Why SHOULD he bother me so much in the first place?” and “He just doesn’t.” I think part of it may be that I get a little schadenfreudy when someone sticks it to the high and mighty: Good for him! is how I react. And also: Really, hasn’t he made some sigificant accomplishments, like the latest diplomatic successes in the Middle East? Can’t you see the substance?

    (PS: The depth of the irrationality is that the same friend mentioned above, who is heavily invested in the stock market for his retirement and was very happy about the market’s performance pre-Covid, said in the same conversation something like: I would gladly give up all those gains that are supposedly due to Trump’s economy if only he weren’t President. Really?)

  3. Which explains, of course, why IT DOESN’T MATTER that the Obama administration (with Joe Biden as VP) is THE MOST CORRUPT administration in American history.
    …with the enthusiastic approval of those “moral” people—“Now, hold on there, WE DIDN’T KNOW!!” Well they didn’t know then and they sure don’t want to know now….

    The Mainstream Corrupt Media have done THEIR JOB masterfully—like the “PROS” they are….

    It would be only fair if the Biden’s (should Biden win next week) give them all a well-deserved cut.

    Bonus – Just another Obama scandal (replete with cover-up):
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fbi-mueller-received-trump-transition-records-from-gsa-in-secret-senate-report

  4. Embarrassment – Bingo!

    Not only are they embarrassed by Trump as President, they are mortified at the idea of voting for Trump and anybody else finding out, with them feeling:
    HOW EMBARRASSING

    I recall Georgia* in your great Sep. Walkaway post.
    https://www.thenewneo.com/2020/09/29/please-watch-this-great-walkaway-video/

    She mentioned that she became embarrassed to be a Democrat. I thought then that EMBARRASSMENT was the emotional trigger to decide to leave, and all the rest of 45 min was rationalization to justify that decision.

    Yes, the desire, the need to “think for yourself” is important. But I’m sure all of your liberal friends will claim that they do, in fact, think for themselves.

    Embarrassment and disgust are mostly taught.

    It would be so embarrassing to vote for Trump, he’s icky.

    Rather vote for a senile corrupt liar! At least he’s not so icky.

    Glenn Reynolds calls it oikophobia, sort of following Roger Scruton.
    From Urban Dictionary,
    the felt need to denigrate the customs, culture and institutions that are identifiably ‘ours.’

    But I think it’s more like elitism against the common, against the boorish, against the country bumpkin.

    We Trump supporters should be proud to support Trump’s results – and claim results are more important than any human flaws Trump the human has.

    We should also be mentioning how “honest Democrats” should be embarrassed to support near-senile, provably corrupt Biden.

    *Had to look up Georgia’s name, and the Neo part of the post doesn’t give it, but it’s early in vid and in the comments.

  6. The people I know who confirmed that they already voted or will vote for Joe Biden are definitely doing it just to get rid of Trump. They’ve very up front about it. (I’m sort of the opposite – the Democratic party is just so reprehensible to me right now that I’d rather have any Republican, even someone as incoherent and unpredictable as Trump, in the White House.)

    Also, why is it Trump’s fault that people react to him the way they do? Why can’t people be responsible for their own behavior? Why aren’t individual citizens responsible for maintaining civility regardless of who’s President?

  7. t cannot, surely do not, give a hoot about “How the world looks at America”. The rest of the planet is busy burying Western Judeo-Christian civilization as fast as it can in order to sell the entire planet to the rule of the Chinese.
    As Watt observes, we live in a land of hatred for a man who is the anti-Obama in spades (pun intended). Remember good old Michelle saying the achievements of her husband were the first time in her life she, the Princeton alum, felt really good about America. Blackness must conquer. See the NBA and its hugging up to the totalitarian Chinese.

  9. The media have mapped the disgust reaction onto Republicans and especially onto President Trump. See Neo’s article from 2017

    https://www.thenewneo.com/2017/11/16/the-disgust-test/

    You see Trump and Republicans are racist, xenophobes, homophobes, alphabet-phobes, sexists, Handmaids, ignorant, red necks, greedy oppressors of the poor (actually of everyone), …. that kill and eat puppies. All disgusting things to a Democrat or a leftist. Not too sophisticated.

    And of course BLM and Antifa are warriors for justice. Antifa moreover are just middle class suburban young adults according to the Associated Press.

    Disgust is a powerful emotional trigger.

    https://psychology.iresearchnet.com/social-psychology/emotions/disgust/

  10. Imagine for a moment that the Trump was 100% ideologically in accord with Obama. In this case, the media would love him.
    How would they characterize an “Obama” Trump??
    How would they describe his presidential persona, his method of communicating, his Twitters, his jokes, his mocking of his opponents, his loud mouth in your face braggadocio?

    They would say;

    “how refreshing to have a president who speaks his mind;”
    “it’s about time that we have a politician that says it like it is;”
    “finally, a politician who pulls no punches”
    “it’s long past due that we have a new paradigm for political discourse”.
    ” Trump is a working man’s politician;”
    etc. etc.

    And of course EVERY action / policy he took would be praised and commended.
    And those who presently hate the “real” Trump, because they abhor his personality, would love his ass because the media would 24/7/365 be praising everything about Trump.

    I would venture to guess that Neo’s lifelong demokrat friend who hates Trump primarily because of his personality would have an entirely different view if the media were giving Trump the “Obama treatment;” that is, Trump is a present day Christ and Moses and he can do no wrong.

    Like the total idiot I am, I recently had a 20 minute “”discussion” with at Trump hater; he obtains all his news from the NY Times, CNN, etc.
    His ENTIRE hatred of Trump was based on Trump’s personality traits; he knew ZERO about any policies of Trump OR THAT OF BIDEN.
    I would have had a more informative discussion with a pebble.

    He was literally brainwashed from watching the constant berating and criticism of Trump.

    IMHO the root of Trump hatred – why it affects so many folks – is the constant Trump is Hitler propaganda from the mainstream media.

    Why this propaganda affects some folks and not others, I cannot say.

    In my case, I don’t watch the news nor read the newspapers; I just peruse a bunch of websites. I also tend to concentrate on the policies a politician chooses to implement. I really do not care about the personality traits of a politician.

    Yet for other folks, ALL that matters is their perception of that politician – do they like him or not – and the policies that politician wishes to implement are of no consequence.

    A fair and unbiased media would go a long way to having voters look past a politicians public demeanor and also consider the policies the candidate wishes to implement.
    Yep, I know, the chances of that are a big fat zero.

  11. It’s really very simple. It’s policy over personality. I’m not voting for my spiritual leader, I’m voting for my political leader. 47 months of accomplishments versus 47 years of corruption shouldn’t be that difficult to analyze and decide upon.

  12. I see the same thing, that is #1, with my daughters. They just can’t stand him. Yet, I don’t think they know that much about his actual conduct in office, It is mostly superficial. They rely on vignettes and descriptions from legacy and social media.

    The truly baffling phenomenon Neo, are people like your friend who find him intolerable, yet presumably found Clinton tolerable. Or people who accepted Obama apologizing to the world while holding the office. Or people who are now willing to overlook Biden’s obvious cognitive deterioration on top of his history of sleaziness and incompetence.

    Obama’s comments are so ironic; although not surprising. Coming from him, they are meaningless. Respect is earned. Obama projected vacillation and weakness. Those who matter in the world do not respect weakness; they only respect strength which is composed in equal parts of power and resolve.

    As for the second explanation; if Biden isn’t going to be in charge, who is? Apparently people who vote for him don’t think that far ahead, or they just don’t care. I would say to them, “you are willing to sell out the country, in the interest of your personal virtue signaling. What could be worse?”

  14. Obama, Pennsylvania, 2020:

    “You’re not going to have to argue about them [“Joe and Kamala”] every day. It just won’t be so exhausting. You might be able to have a Thanksgiving dinner without having an argument.”

    Hmmmm . . . is that the same Obama . . .

    [does a very quick duckduckgo dot com search]

    Well, sonuvab!tch, it sure is!

    Obama, Nevada, 2008:

    “I need you to go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors. I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican. I want you to argue with them and get in their face.”

    Come on, man . . .

  15. “Embarrassment”… the mind reels. Or my mind does, anyway.

    I can understand a certain level of “embarrassment” about having Donald Trump, with all his foibles, as the public face of America in a sense. However… if I were talking to someone expressing this type of “embarrassment” to which Neo alluded, I would probably feel the need to ask some pointed questions:

    “* So you’d rather have a president who is notorious for feeling up other men’s wives on live television?
    * You’d rather have a president who can’t remember which office he’s running for on any given day?
    * Whose son is a basket case and has apparently pimped out his dad’s office on behalf of a regime that openly attacks the values of the entire (once?-) free world, and is in fact preparing for aggressive war even now?
    * Who will inevitably be a mere figurehead, an empty shell for whoever is really running the show behind the scenes? – and note well, please, that for perhaps the first time in our history, or at least in living memory, we the public (and indeed the world) will have no real idea who is calling the shots in the White House from one day to the next?
    And you don’t consider those things ’embarrassing’?!? You think Trump was ’embarrassing’… ohoho, boy….”

    Never mind the policy stuff – to shackle one’s vote to vague emotional considerations that one can’t even articulate after all this time…. I don’t know. I do have hopes that this election will still be successful. Even if it isn’t, I think maybe life will go on in some fashion. Personally, I expect to encounter some unpleasantness in my own affairs in the near future because of all of this ‘stuff,’ some of which will come irrespective of the election results this time – there are certain things that even The Donald can’t change. 🙂 But I’ve been reading a bit about some of the modern elders of Mt. Athos which, in the form of this gift book that I just got from my priest, has been already quite interesting on a philosophical level. This is the reminder that I needed that politics comes and goes, but truth abides.

    And Cicero, I’ve been reading about your travails in the war. In fact, I just got done reading a paragraph describing the agonies you must have undergone while trying to decide between Pompey and Caesar once it became clear that there was no going back. I sympathize. Would it be too much to see Trump as standing on the bank of the Rubicon in similar fashion? Or is he another Sulla in the making? I wish I could ask you face to face – it would be fascinating to see your reaction.
    You know, – well, he came long after you, of course; but if you could have met our Washington, eighteen hundred years down the road, what would you have made of him? He and his fellow Founders were familiar with your work, and that of your colleague Cato and many others. I think they would have jumped at the chance to discourse with you! In a way, you helped to make this newer Republic. I wonder if some of your counsels on the unmaking of republics might soon find application here as well.

  16. There would appear to be a definite correlation between “moral” voters and support for the most corrupt politicians in America’s history.

    (Certainly helps when a huge percentage of the media is supporting—via promotion, hagiography, selective reporting and cover-ups—those most corrupt politicians in America’s history; though there is a definite “packaging” component, as well.)

    So that the good old adage may have to be updated for post-modern(?) times: “You CAN fool ALL of the “moral” voters ALL of the time”. (Or most of them.)

  17. They would jump out of what for them is a frying pan and drag all of us into the fire.

    Truly, “people who don’t even know that fire is hot”.

  19. Philip Sells:
    I use “Cicero” as a memorial to a remarkable Roman who gave his all in defense of the idea of a rational Republic. I can read a bit of Latin, too!

  22. If you can say anything, the last sixty years of presidents haven’t been moral giants with few exceptions. Kennedy chased women, Johnson was a racist, Nixon (well Nixon), Ford a placeholder, Carter a scolder, Reagan had Iran-Contra, George HW Bush had rumors of affairs, Bill Clinton had the morals of an alley cat, George W Bush was a weak kneed president, Barack Obama legacy will continue to be discovered in future and will not be good.
    At this point, I don’t care about perceived moral issues. I am only concerned about what he gets done. So far so good, with almost no help from Democrats.
    If the opposition feels comfortable electing a man that is incapable of working more than a half day, and knowing that he won’t stay in office for the full term, to be replaced by a primary candidate that couldn’t even get a single delegate in the primaries, we are doomed.

  23. You know, if he presents such an existential crisis to them, I hope he wins and they are so broken they stop being so completely ridiculous. What a detachment from reality, what looney tunes. I cannot fathom being so wrapped up in a person as to lose all grip on reality.

  24. Consider whether TDS results from emotions that cannot be admitted without losing face.
    Wounded pride, that the highest status person in the world (POTUS) is someone so lacking the markers (accent, affect, education, opinions) that define high class membership. Sarah Palin triggered the same reaction among suburban white women in 2008.
    Fear, that the Party may not be able to deliver all the money it has promised if if can’t stay in power. Those blue state government worker pensions aren’t going to pay themselves. When Nancy Pelosi talks about the “middle class,” she means government workers.
    Fear, that if the Party can’t make good on all the post dated checks they have written to the various constituencies of its electoral coalition, the result will be real radicalism. From that standpoint, the value of this summer’s riots is to keep the liberals in line. Don’t imagine that the funder class doesn’t know they are paying protection money.
    And fear of condemnation and blackmail. The women play a crucial role here. Why the wine-drinking suburban women should be so…the only word is hysterical…is worth another post altogether. The dynamics of fear and condemnation suggest specific group dynamics and the presence of powerful taboos.
    If all that is true, can it be any surprise that they cannot explain?

  25. Neo:
    C’mon! You describe your friend as “she’ a lifelong Democrat although not doctrinaire”.
    Not doctrinaire but lifelong. I guess she claims that, being “intelligent”, but it is patent BS. Democrats are nothing if not doctrinaire.

  26. Nobody seems to have mentioned that this is a class war. Black Lives don’t matter to the people funding this. They are billionaires and because they got rich (or inherited it) , they think they know how to run things. Obama was a symbol to many people, white and black. I thought he was an empty suit but he knew the right people. We still don’t know how he got from Occidental college to Columbia where no one remembers him, to Harvard Law, where he was “president” of the Law Review, not Editor. Kamala Harris seems to me to be the one chosen by the dark money to be the nominee but she showed herself shrill and not very attractive.

    Trump is a guy who made his own money and is a salesman personality. He is from Queens, not Manhattan as Tom Wolfe’s charter in “Bonfire” was. In Victorian England, he would be seen as one of those “underbred” manufacturers. American elites have pretended to be English aristocrats for over a century.

    The people who hate Trump see themselves, somehow, as an “elite.” They used to be called “social climbers” but that term has disappeared. Now the elites are defined by colleges and degrees. Except that colleges and degrees have seen an enormous inflation that degrades those same degrees. The Trump haters are desperately clinging to class differences that don’t exist. The class above them is using them to protect themselves. Does anyone think Bill Gates or Eric Schmidt is worried about Joe Biden’s “tax plan?” They are inside the tent, as LBJ used to say.

  27. I have a sanctimonious neighbor, born in Canada, who obtained US citizenship in 2008 so he could vote for Obama. He professes to be deeply concerned about America’s reputation, gravely damaged by Trump, in his studied opinion. I refrain from mentioning the millions upon millions of Americans who could not care less what France and Germany think of the United States. Or what Canada thinks, for that matter.

  28. I felt (and still feel) disgust and revulsion in regard to Obama. Not because of his race, but because of his obvious arrogance and duplicity.

  29. The Hunter Biden shit is starting to hit the fan, and to fly in all directions.

    Take a look at the stories on gatewaypundit.com today.

  30. I have a sanctimonious neighbor, born in Canada, who obtained US citizenship in 2008 so he could vote for Obama. He professes to be deeply concerned about America’s reputation, gravely damaged by Trump, in his studied opinion. I refrain from mentioning the millions upon millions of Americans who could not care less what France and Germany think of the United States. Or what Canada thinks, for that matter.

    Geez. A “caring” Canadian. Unfortunately he is one of many found in an otherwise fine human population, who is obviously proud of being the end product of generations of assortative mating among submissive types.

    Direct him to some of our comments. And if he doesn’t like it, tell him I’ll be glad to “look him up on the battlefield” someday.

  33. “When she said that, I thought “Bingo! That’s the essence of it.” Something about Trump – or perhaps many things about Trump – are simply repugnant to a lot of people.” [Neo]

    I think that the concept of “social styles” also provides some insight. This idea analyzes human behavior across several spectra, one of which is process driven v. goal driven. In short, to some people achieving a goal is most important (Winning isn’t everything . . it’s the only thing), while to others, it’s the process which needs to be correct and proper (Better a graceful loser than an arrogant winner. Hello Republican party). Those like the never Trumpers who claim they “hate Trump” because he embarrasses them are totally ignoring the conservative results he has achieved while denigrating him for his behavior in achieving them.

    Yet many of these same people, our self-described moral and intellectual superiors, will simultaneously throw that same reliance on process out the window and defend a “by any means necessary” approach to rid themselves of this embarrassment. I offer that, to them, Trump is like Martin Crane’s chair in Frasier’s otherwise stylish apartment; yes you can sit in it, yes it can recline, but compared to Frasier’s sofa, a copy of the settee in Coco Chanel’s Paris atelier (as we are constantly reminded) that chair, and that president, are an affront to the civilized senses.

  37. Yes, it’s an embarrassment-phenomenon. A 56 yo modern male academic included the anecdote, that he had in a split-second ‘assumed’ a peer familiarity – flirted, ever so subtly – with a much younger woman. She instantly knew his mortification, and they remained good colleagues, but that he let himself down stuck with him.

    As a young kid in hard-core logging-country, several retiring he-men confided to the tike that they ‘just couldn’t trust themselves anymore’. Like the wildebeest or zebra that now inexplicably stands a quarter mile off from the herd, they didn’t last long. Embarrassment can be a killer.

    It was obvious from 30 to 40 years back. It’s not stable, to downsize and outsource, to force those who played the game by the rules to either go upstairs where they are subject to the Peter Principle, or go downstairs into the upper-lower-classes. The poor, insecure, our African and Hispanic minorities … they are all inherently conservative … and by cultural heritage, too.

    We’ve known long-term that Democrats’ reliance on the African American vote is unstable, and they’ve had over 30 years to address the pickle. The ‘Ivory Tower’ is an ancient metaphor, and who should most quickly recognize it and avoid its liabilities, but those who built it.

    In the Tower, the lower classes are ‘cunning’. Hillbillies are ingenious; rustics are resourceful. You [they] don’t have to scratch deep, to uncover that the superiority of Progressive intelligence and intellect was always a lie, known to be a lie.

    They underestimated their political adversary in ‘the silent majority’, some of whom are as smart as professors, and sometimes smarter. They swigged on the psychic kool-aid to cloud what was easily perceived, and to dull the anxiety.

    Now, even if Trump loses next week, the cat is out of the bag … the ice is broken, it’s all over but the whoopin’ an hollerin’. And since they have nobody to blame but themselves, Trump is the personification of a morbid realization-nightmare.

    London’s To Build a Fire … oops.

  39. P. Trump is from NYC and has that personality and culture.
    We southerners have a term for those people: Damn Yankees

    Has nothing to do with intelligence or competence.

  40. Finally she added, “He embarrasses me. It embarrasses me that he’s the president of the United States.”

    When she said that, I thought “Bingo! That’s the essence of it.” Something about Trump – or perhaps many things about Trump – are simply repugnant to a lot of people. Many are women, but there are plenty of men in the group as well.

    Plus, Biden – and Obama as his surrogate (or is it the other way around?) – plays on people’s desire for less discord (these are quotes from Obama’s recent Pennsylvania speech)…

    Democrats are shocked that, unlike other prominent Republican Presidents or Presidential candidates, Trump doesn’t take the “high road” when insulted, but fights back. Democrats do not apparently realize that Trump’s fighting back endears him to a lot of his voters. Trump wasn’t my first choice, but when he didn’t mutely accept those attacks, I decided that I liked Trump. Enough of mutely accepting “ChimpyBushMcHitler.”

    Democrats also apparently don’t realize that Obama and Hillary made some divisive, partisan statements that at times insulted Republicans. Obama insulting: “bitter clingers to guns or religion.” Obama divisive, partisan: “bring a gun to a knife fight.” Hillary insulting: deplorables.

    In any event, these Democrats who are shocked at Trump’s fighting back would never have voted for him.

  41. That reviling Trump has a connection to feelings of embarrassment tell you that this is indeed a class war we are in. The only reason to feel so, would be because one feels superiority. My challenge would always be: why?

    Regarding Biden as the acceptable anything-but-Trump alternative, simply because it doesn’t really matter because he won’t be there long….

    How can one rationalize that and not follow up immediately with a close look at the heir-to-the-throne? Good Lord, Kamala as Presidente! It’s the Progressive gift-that-keeps-giving. Yes, that’s making it worse, but I can’t think about that now. I’ll go back to Tara and think about it tomorrow…”

  42. Another aspect of this “existential threat” is religious. There are indeed those who mainly have a class-based disgust for Trump. I know several of those and they’ll be quick to tell you that they sometimes vote Republican. Their objection is not truly ideological.

    There is a whole other kind of revulsion which results in the truly frenzied TDS. These are leftists for whom their politics is their religion. For them Trump’s occupation of the White House is a blasphemy and produces the fury which blasphemy naturally does in the believer. Whatever it is that you deeply believe to be sacred, you will be enraged by someone spitting or urinating on it. That’s what’s going on with them. Trump is occupying the place most recently occupied by the Saint-King Obama. And his election represented an intolerable reversal in the supposedly assured movement of history in the right direction.

    These are big, deep, elemental emotions. Combine them with class contempt and you’ve got…well, what we see.

  43. “This also gives me *some* hope that there are other thinking people out there on the left…, who may be part of the “silent” electorate.” – ColoComment

    I kept highlighting parts to paste into this comment and finally gave up.
    Just read the whole thing!
    She speaks to almost every topic we’ve talked about at Neo’s blog regarding the right-left divide, and especially this one.

    “Still, I will admit, I still feel a bit dirty marking my ballot Trump.” – Mercer

    Totally on-board the Trump train, but still embarrassed to be there!

    That sentence links to a YouTube post of another changer who left the Democrats when she learned how much they lied about Trump and other things.

    That seems to be a common factor in the #WalkAway movement, although not exclusively the cause of conversions.

  44. Democrats vote for Democrats. The persuadable ones are the swing/non-aligned/don’t tend to pay too much attention to politics generally voters. Most swing voters appear to hate Trump. A lot of it has to do with the Covid crisis.

  45. Anyone remember the time, years ago now, when hating Kim Kardashian was a badge of honor? People would fall over themselves expressing not just disgust but anger over someone whose only offense was staring in an insipid TV show. It was nothing but a class thing. “Look at sophisticated I am to look down on that trashy girl and her trashy family on her trashy show!”

    Notice how hating Kim Kardashian is no longer a thing? She’s just a regular old celebrity now. That’s because the people who hated her were never about upholding any standard of decency or propriety. They were just Toobin-ing themselves and that gets old after a while.

    The non-rational reaction to Trump has many origins but follows the same dynamic. For some it’s status anxiety. For some, it’s probably that Trump reminds them of the bullies who tormented them as kids. What’s interesting about Trump is how widespread it is.

    I would bet money that Neo’s friend feels as she does about Trump because she’s mirroring the non-rational hatred of Democratic thought-leaders and institutions. That she can’t explain her own reaction is the tell. At minimum, the political/cultural establishment’s demonization of Trump made it easy for her to hate without any thought behind it.

    Mike

  46. I remember somewhat my reaction to the first time I heard Trump in an interview. I’d never paid any attention to him until he started getting into the presidential campaign, really – had heard the name, but I’ve been mostly deaf to pop culture all my life, so I was never conscious of him in any real sense until 2015, as far as I can recall. Thus, when I heard that first interview, I had no point of reference about him; and I remember a feeling of distaste at the sound of his voice at first. Not his diction or accent, but something about how his voice sounded. And in this, I was definitely influenced by the fact that I was a Cruz supporter at the time and this was around the time when the race between Cruz and Trump was starting to get a little nasty. Thus, my initial attitude to Trump was soured by certain factors that I wouldn’t try to defend as objective.

    I don’t know when, but probably as a gradual shading process since the 2016 election, Trump’s voice lost that vaguely unappealing shade for me. I wouldn’t say I’ve come to particularly enjoy hearing him talk, but I’ve certainly heard worse – he’s certainly not fingernails-on-chalkboard.

    But I thought I’d mention it to illustrate that I have a certain sympathy for these types of emotional reactions from others.

    I had the thought yesterday that maybe this election is a sort of national Rorschach test. One could risk distending the analogy somewhat by positing that the administering psychologist (the media) has, unfortunately for the patient, chosen a side. But I put it in those terms because maybe this election is in large part really about non-rational aspects of democracy, more so than has been historically the case in the US. Could we even say that it’s something of an orthogonal test of whether we are really democratic at core? (I mean orthogonal to the rational, policy-based type of motivations or frames of reference that have sometimes played more of a role.)

  47. “Could we even say…”

    Perhaps. But we’re in trouble—deep trouble—because of the “multiplier effect” (previously mentioned in a different post) that forms such a gruesome, insidious aspect of Social Media, encouraging as it does the emotional/hysterical feelings and drowning out if not eliminating entirely the more rational/deliberative aspects of one’s personality.

    One of S-M’s most pernicious “features” is how easily it amplifies the “YUCK FACTOR” such that all the “moral” people can collectively, continually, consistently, confidently and in full self-righteous indignation shout “YUCK” at each and every “feature” and “fact”, meme or thread (whether true, false or partially true or mostly false) that they do not like. If there is an inclination, for whatever reason, towards hysteria, then what happens is that the amplification and REPETITION of distaste leads to ridicule and/or detestation, which in turn can lead to sheer hatred and, finally, demonization.

    The “multiplier effect” means that it is very easy to create a virtual mob of like-minded people who righteously intone “YUCK”, constantly reinforcing one another so that “YUCK” is shouted hysterically from the rooftops at all frequencies and amplitudes; and all the “YUCK”-shouters believe themselves to be “morally superior” because their—unchallenged—“sense of YUCK” is so completely and constantly reinforced by all those other earnest, righteously-indignant, ethically-superior moral geniuses.

    Add the Mainstream Corrupt Media and you have a recipe for mass delusional thinking.

    Which is where we’re at, currently.

    In simpler terms, perhaps, S-M has enabled the monster of “factionalism”, against which Madison warned but at the same time was confident could never attain significant strength or influence, to pervert the socio-political arena and corrupt the body politic.

    By its very nature—assisted by human nature and fallibilities—it can only continue to do so, perhaps even increasingly, unless people can get the impulses and susceptibilities mentioned above under control.

    File under: Cry “YUCK” and let slip the dogs of war”

  48. The source of the sex tapes is an organization called GTV, based in Taiwan and run by a Billionaire Chinese dissident, which claims that the Chinese Communist government has been running a program to entrap influential western leaders, film them in compromising situations involving sex and/or drugs and, then, blackmailing them into selling out their countries.

    This kind of operation is a standard one in intelligence work.

    You might remember mention, here and there, of the surprising fact that, a couple of years ago, a network of clandestine agents the CIA had established in China was, all of a sudden, “rolled up” by the CCP, the whole network–our dozen or so agents–caught and imprisoned or executed.

    GTV is claiming that Joe Biden was involved.

    GTV is also claiming to have gotten access to these compromising videos, and to have millions of such blackmail images.

    This, if true, is a definite “game changer.”

    See https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/10/forget_the_hunter_biden_sex_tapes_the_real_news_is_much_bigger_than_that.html

  49. Great group of comments – I learned a lot but a particular shout out to Ted Clayton. I grew up in an Ivy League household transplanted to a small town of 400 in New Hampshire. That is, with the contrast of educated intelligence and …well…native intelligence. Any I also experienced that ‘elite’ anxiety that the natively intelligent were seeing through a different lens and my more ‘elite’ view was not actually superior. I’m 78 and still working out the differences, but I agree with Ted that a lot of Americans saw through the the progressive dream, turned rather Marxist and totalitarian, recently. I still think the election could go either way and could be stolen too but essentially the establishment have outed themselves and things will never be the same. Thanks President Trump.

  50. “Toobin-ing”
    Interesting word that. (A Shakespearian infinitive? A venerable German university?)

    In any event, compare and contrast:
    https://www.breitbart.com/the-media/2020/10/23/jeffrey-toobin-proves-hating-trump-means-you-can-do-no-wrong/
    H/T Instapundit
    https://nypost.com/2020/10/24/biden-corruption-claims-all-but-confirmed-with-hunter-emails/
    H/T Powerline blog

    IOW, what would be happening were Toobin a Conservative law professor/media commentator or were Biden a Republican…? (Yes, That’s a tough one alright; but no doubt some fearless reader will take up the challenge…)

    Now multiply these instances by hundreds (thousands?) of others.

    …as Michael Flynn continues to languish—a de facto political prisoner of the Obama administration and its corrupt lackeys in the Justice system.

    Indeed, something is very, very rotten. Corruption, thy name is…

  51. Pingback:Sorta Blogless Sunday Pinup » Pirate's Cove

  52. More “motivation”:
    “Tech CEO emails 10 million customers, tells them a vote against Biden is ‘a vote against democracy'”
    https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/tech-ceo-emails-10-million-customers-tells-them-vote-against-biden-vote-against

    Nothing to see here. (Just another tech cult ‘twould seem.)

    Ah, but is such eager and enthusiastic promotion of democracy—and democratic values—in fact lawful? One wonders….

    File under: Not so subtle psychopathologies

  53. I have a sanctimonious neighbor, born in Canada, who obtained US citizenship in 2008 so he could vote for Obama. He professes to be deeply concerned about America’s reputation, gravely damaged by Trump, in his studied opinion. I refrain from mentioning the millions upon millions of Americans who could not care less what France and Germany think of the United States. Or what Canada thinks, for that matter.

    The current prime minister of Canada had two occupations before entering electoral politics. (1) High school drama teacher (1995-2002), and (2) serial grad-school dropout (2002-07). What are his ‘concerns’ about Canada’s ‘reputation’?

  54. The most irrational form of TDS continues to derive not from the left, but from the pseudo-right, most egregiously from the odious Lincoln Project, from The Dispatch and The Bulwark (both laughably irrelevant and moronic),

    My wager is that they’re not irrational, they’re on the payroll. (Well, Jennifer Rubin’s likely irrational and on the payroll).

  55. I think that what makes all this possible is the unrelenting viciousness of the lies and attacks on Trump that have been told, almost universally, by the mass media since even before he was elected. In talking to my elderly half-sister, I told her that everything she “knew” about Trump was a lie told by CNN and a host of other media outlets. But why should she believe me over the supposedly respectable cultural institutions of the mass media? She would have to do some research or read my research and it is a hell of a lot easier just to believe CNN. Will American civilization fall simply because of mass laziness? Now there is a depressing thought!

  56. “Toobin-ing” is a new version of to much information, it’s a race to the bottom in the comments. Sad.

    Will “T-ing” become a new version of Godwin’s Law; eventually someone always mentions an Austrian corporal as a last resort to buttress an opinion.

    Maybe the use of “T-ing” it will pass as just another internet fad when the shock has worn off. One can hope for better things.

  57. “The current prime minister of Canada…”

    …happens to be an Obama wannabe. Obama light, as it were. Inspired by the great man. Taking Canada down the same enlightened path, etc. (though to be fair, Canada has had a significant head start).

    Same sense of entitlement. Just as full of himself. Trying hard to be just as corrupt (but of course not succeeding—who could?) On the other hand, the jury’s not yet all in as he likely has several years to go, his minority government, such as it is, being currently propped up by the extreme Left (Canada-style) NDP, which is itself generally too extreme for most Labour Party voters—if useful, certainly for stifling the myriad scandals that have, somehow, occurred on his watch…. So there you have it…

    Regarding his concerns, it would appear that he is 1) seriously “concerned” that Canada is not quite woke enough, and 2) concerned that he shows up wearing the right socks.

    FWIW, here’s David Solway, a rare Canadian voice in the wilderness, who provides some “balance” (but then one may assume that there aren’t too many of his ilk….).
    https://pjmedia.com/columns/david-solway-2/2020/10/19/confessions-of-a-disaffected-canadian-and-why-i-love-america-n1070405

  58. What motivates Biden voters?

    Here is what our future will be like if enough Biden voters vote, via Robert Reich on Twitter–

    “When this nightmare is over, we need a Truth and Reconciliation Commission. It would erase Trump’s lies, comfort those who have been harmed by his hatefulness, and name every official, politician, executive, and media mogul whose greed and cowardice enabled this catastrophe.”

    See https://twitter.com/rbreich/status/1317614803704115200

    I think we’ve seen this movie before, and how it turns out.

    P.S,–If Trump won, and Republicans were gearing up for such an effort as Reich wants, Republicans would be charged with creating a STASI type network of informers, trying to set up a dictatorship, star chambers, show trials, and Gulags.

  59. This blog has sadly devolved . Used to be there was opportunity for good debate, but now it suffers from Democrat Derangement Syndrome.

    Y’all don’t get it, especially Neo. In a democracy, such as we have it, it is about convincing.

    If all we have to say is about how (put your favorite derisive pejorative here) those Dem voters / supporters are or how (pejorative) their arguments are, then all this is simply self-pleasuring twaddle.

    Trump embodies almost everything you don’t want as a spokesperson and leader for your ideals. He hardly ever makes the case for anything, and has lost all credibility with his vast mendacity. Surely, y’all see that by now.

    People have been repulsed by him after four years – well articulated or not.

    You bet on the wrong horse, ignoring the obvious, hardly ever feeling the need to hold him accountable, and now the conservative and GOP brand is so sullied, you have to wonder if the GOP can even keep the Senate, and wonder about the implications for future elections.

    So what will you have? What are you “fighting” for?

    If it is about some notion of “freedom” and/or other “conservative” principles you hold dear, then you better act like you respect other people’s freedom to choose and work to convince them why your ideals are better for them.

    Or, you can continue with the orgiastic pile-on about how bad those people who vote Dem and/or for Biden are (and, by implication, how superior you are). It may make you feel better, but it is not healthy.

    Just know that YOU are then part of the problem – you are moving the ball backwards.

    If the Dems take the Senate too, and especially if the aged Biden passes away early, then all the precedent and norm breaking you either ignored or cheered w Trump will have opened the door for them to carry out far bigger changes in the opposite direction you supposedly all don’t want – court packing anyone?

    Trump was an escalation. Don’t cry me a river when the Dems kick it up a notch on top of that.

  60. Truth and reconciliation commissions. Robert Reich is taking direction from that intellectual giant Keith Olderman (sic probably). Mental infirmity and insanity, what a pair. But crazy people can be very dangerous to themselves and others.

  62. “It is about convincing”.

    Oh, so THAT’S it.

    Well, Obama certainly convinced (until he didn’t).

    Alas, Hillary didn’t quite convince, did she?

    And so she started a civil war, with the Mainstream Corrupt Media riding shotgun.

    But this is all Trump’s fault. Along with his supporters.

    And Neo’s for pointing it out.

    Somehow, amidst all the scandals and all the lies and all the threats and all the violence emanating from the Democratic Party, many on this site remain UNCONVINCED regarding Trump’s political opponents.

    (I know it may be hard to believe…)

    What am I missing here?

    Oh, right: Trump obviously has failed to convince you. Therefore, Trump has utterly FAILED to convince, period.
    Q.E.D.

  63. “Trump was an escalation.” Of course he was. So was Obama. That’s the way wars go. Don’t pretend that only one side is waging it.

  64. “Or, you can continue with the orgiastic pile-on about how bad those people who vote Dem and/or for Biden are (and, by implication, how superior you are). It may make you feel better, but it is not healthy.”

    Big Maq has obviously never indulged in bashing any opinion deviating from the left orthodoxy as exhibited on Facebook or on college campuses. Oh right, he now is exhibiting superiority. Silly me.

  65. Big Maq,

    While I agree with you that this blog has changed I have yet to determine exactly how. It’s one of the reasons that I comment less now than in the past, but perhaps it has to do with the proximity of a very divisive election.

    You write: “. . . you better act like you respect other people’s freedom to choose and work to convince them why your ideals are better for them.” First, this is not a civilized debate, it is a war. You are criticizing the process (see my post above @10/24 8:58 pm) as though we should be toasting our opponents for a good fight, but they have no intention of mounting a “good fight”. They are working for the obliteration of their opposition. They have no intention of being graceful winners and I have no intention of being a graceful loser, so I applaud this newfound spine and this vocal and procedural resistance.

    Furthermore, I am convinced that debates of any form rarely change anyone’s mind even under the best of circumstances, and this election is not the best of circumstances.. I believe that most people entertain debates looking for confirmation bias not new information. It’s no less than simply rooting for your own team to win in yet another skirmish of a larger war. In this particular election I offer that that positions are even more ossified than normally and because of that your plea is way off the mark.

    You say such belligerence is unhealthy. Perhaps so, but that does not make it unnecessary. If this election is as important as many credited thinkers believe (e.g., Victor Davis Hanson, Michael Anton, et. al.), if this is to be a Bastogne moment for western civilization, then damn the niceties and damn the debate. If the leftists win the election and take the senate, too, as you pose, resistance has not moved the ball backwards because the left will not reciprocate for a good but fair fight by limiting their “bigger changes”. Their intent has been made clear, their masks have been removed and this election could well be a last stand for conservative principles.

  66. Trump was an escalation.

    Only to people who are shallow or malevolent. Trump’s signature issue is enforcing the immigration laws, which is a perfectly reasonable stance to take. His opposition mixes political gamesmanship with sentimentality.

    Don’t cry me a river when the Dems kick it up a notch on top of that.

    Trump wasn’t the one who weaponized federal agencies. Trump isn’t the one who refuses to prosecute rioters for political reasons (but, instead, prosecutes people defending their homes). Trump isn’t the one launching politically-motivated prosecutions of police officers. Trump isn’t the one who has turned educational institutions into sandboxes for political propagandists. You are the one who countenances this. If the institutions of state are turned into weapons, they cease to be legitimate, and abused publics defend themselves with guns.

  67. I think your “revulsion” point is a huge factor. I was on a fishing trip 3 weeks ago with a group of cousins and got into a discussion on our last evening at a bar (and after a few drinks…I don’t think I would have broached the subject otherwise). This cousin in particular claimed to NEVER have voted anything other than Republican and refused to vote for Trump.

    When I pressed him for reasons, he broke out the “military are suckers and losers line” which had been fairly well debunked by that point. I pointed out that, as a Marine, I didn’t believe it for a second. He then mumbled loudly something about Vindman. To which I let out a groan and asked if he was kidding.

    After that he shut down and would only say that he would not be voting for Trump. Nothing else mattered to him. It was irrational and bizarre. No policy argument mattered. Nothing Biden or Harris could possibly do would matter more to him than removing Trump. I walked away from the conversation to engage with others as I just could not continue without getting angry.

  68. “After that he shut down and would only say that he would not be voting for Trump. Nothing else mattered to him. It was irrational and bizarre. No policy argument mattered. Nothing Biden or Harris could possibly do would matter more to him than removing Trump.” [Chris+J @ 12:27 pm]

    “I believe that most people entertain debates looking for confirmation bias not new information. It’s no less than simply rooting for your own team to win in yet another skirmish of a larger war. In this particular election I offer that that positions are even more ossified than normally. . .” [T @ 12:16 pm]

  69. “You bet on the wrong horse, ignoring the obvious, hardly ever feeling the need to hold him accountable”

    And the response to that has been hysteria, the Russia collusion hoax, people ranting about changing the Constitution to get rid of the Electoral College, talk of “Truth and Reconciliation” hearings for Trump supporters, and nominating for President a 78-year-old man who shows clear signs of physical and mental decline.

    Big Maq gives the game away when he calls Trump an “escalation.” An “escalation” in what? In response to what?

    It is a publicly established and acknowledged FACT that the Obama-era IRS targeted conservative activists groups for harassment. Again, THIS IS A FACT.

    https://www.npr.org/2017/10/27/560308997/irs-apologizes-for-aggressive-scrutiny-of-conservative-groups

    In all of Trump’s first term, what is in any way equivalent to that?

    Mike

  70. “Big Maq on October 25, 2020 at 11:34 am said:
    This blog has sadly devolved . Used to be there was opportunity for good debate, but now it suffers from Democrat Derangement Syndrome.”

    Huh. A lot of “Macs” big and otherwise have come and gone from Neo’s commenter class.

    I’m wondering if this “Big Maq” is the same “Maq” who appeared the summer and fall before the last presidential election and generally argued along the same lines as Bill-the-semsitive-conservative, in the Flight 93 Election thread, and others.

    That “Mac” or “Maq” as the case might have been, was the fellow who was arguing that Trump would not only be vulgar, but …. well those interested in exactly what was said can review the extensive postings and exchanges from that period, and see how his predictions panned out, and evaluate for themselves whether we would have been better off today with Hillary, or weepy, petulant, Gary Johnson, in office.

    http://www.thenewneo.com/2016/09/17/on-the-flight-93-election-article/

  71. “It’s no less than simply rooting for your own team to win in yet another skirmish of a larger war.”

    Perhaps as far as the dynamic goes; but as far as the actual outcome I think it’s far, far more important—and consequential—than that.

    And this because for me, it’s not merely a “both sides have their good sides and both sides have their bad sides” contest.

    For me, the actions and words of the Democratic Party and the almost solid support of those actions and words by the media, combined with total politicization of the media in support of the Democratic Party and the resulting almost wall-to-wall misrepresentation by that same media (and party) of their opponents makes this election a no brainer, no matter what I think of Donald Trump (and I happen to be pleasantly surprised by him and what he was able to accomplish given the total subversion of his presidency).

    Clearly, other people have come to the opposite conclusion.

    Obviously a lot will depend on what one reads and concludes, and on what one bases his or her conclusions.

    The way the Democrats and their fellow travelers in the media and academia (and other places) have been behaving has CONVINCED me—there’s that word again—that the only responsible act is to prevent them from gaining any position of power until there is a serious and substantial change of heart on their part, which I really don’t see happening simply because they seem to believe that it’s their way or the highway and that power—in their case—can and should be taken by any means necessary.

    As mentioned earlier on this blog, the two sides have for all intents and purposes a mirror image view of their opponent. I’d like to think that mine is more accurate because it’s based on what I believe is more truthful evidence (much of which the media has consistently and successfully tried to hide, misrepresent, obfuscate and/or distort.

    Others will believe the exact opposite.

  72. DNW,

    Thanks for raising the point about Big Maq/Mac. I assumed that this was the same commenter, but in an environment where pseudonyms can change several times within an hour, that is hardly a safe assumption.

  73. Barry Meislin,

    I don’t disagree. My comment about rooting for your team was specifically addressed to the classic debate; i.e., that is does little to change pre-concieved opinions.

    As to the importance of this election, or cultural war, I especially agree. That is what inspired my use of the term “Bastogne moment” rather than repeating again “Flight 93 Election.” They mean the same thing, but I am dating myself.

  74. For the record, this Mac has no connection with any other of same or similar name. There are no comments from me in that F93 post.

  75. This!

    Posted today at ace.mu.nu by Colorado Alex in Exile:
    “They threaten us, degrade us, gaslight us, tell us that we can’t survive without them, constantly demand that we accommodate their ever-changing whims. It’s an abusive relationship. If this were happening to a friend we’d tell him to leave her.”

  76. MBunge

    Big Maq gives the game away when he calls Trump an “escalation.” An “escalation” in what? In response to what?

    The “escalation” is that, in contrast to other Republican Presidents or Presidential candidates in recent years, Trump didn’t supinely accept the repeated insults from Demos or the press, but replied in kind. Trump fought back: that is his “escalation.” (yes, the Venn diagram shows an almost complete intersection between the 2). Yellow dog Democrats may not like like Trump fighting back, but had Trump been as polite as Dubya or Mitts,they still wouldn’t have voted for Trump.

    Big Maq

    Or, you can continue with the orgiastic pile-on about how bad those people who vote Dem and/or for Biden are (and, by implication, how superior you are). It may make you feel better, but it is not healthy.

    Where were you when Obama insulted those living in rural areas with his dismissive “bitter clingers to guns and religion?” Where were you when Hillary labeled half of Republican voters as “deplorables?” Apparently your position is that it is fine for Democrats to insult Republicans, but vice-versa is verboten.

  77. I wonder if some part of ostensibly intelligent people’s support for Biden comes from cognitive dissonance, which makes them so vehement. An objective look at both candidates has to favor Trump, unless one is a Leftist True Believer, and/or benefiting from Leftist scams.

  78. “An objective look at both candidates has to favor Trump, unless one is a Leftist True Believer, and/or benefiting from Leftist scams.” [Oliver T @ 3:51 pm]

    One would think, but as attributed to Jonathan Swift, you cannot reason people out of a position that they did not reason themselves into.

  79. @Maq: Thank you for that clinic on psychological projection. A textbook example is always helpful.

  80. This is a really well-put and -framed problem.

    Embarrassment — a fascinating clue indeed.

    Here’s my complex, multifaceted guess, in the most general terms: There’s certainly a bit of Trump’s “way of talking” in the most embarrassed — those who haven’t come to terms with their inner, quite suppressed, Trumpian view of the world — among the TDS crowd. Wow, what indifference, dishonesty, and a lack of self-reflection! Such people seem afraid — that’s what I think they mean by “embarrassed,” to look inside and inquire of themselves! They shouldn’t be.

    I get a sense of the inanity, maybe the infantile shallowness of the basic, “I just hate Trump,” no reason given, sentiment. Add to this the fact that there’s a general skip over the possible Biden-Harris, electoral consequence of their unqualified repugnance toward Trump or his “way” and you have a completely irresponsible, highly reckless and immature electorate saying just “No me gusta!” As if that’s enough for adults entrusted membership in We the People.

    All too miserably malformed for me.

    Our constitutional republic, or “democracy,” as its often misidentified, dies in the ignorance posing as an excuse not to self-inquire, analyze, understand, sort out, and settle with oneself comfortably. Such tax-paying residents are useless to the free, independent and autonomous nation-state we are, for they do not fit the form and the function of an active, reliable American citizen.

  81. Thanks, BigMaq for coming by.
    You’re correct that Neo’s blog has changed.
    But I’m sad you wrongly used a phrase I employ: Democrat Derangement Syndrome. Which means irrational hatred against Republicans, like Trump, Kavanaugh, Romney (a bit), Palin, Bush (for whom Bush DS was coined), Reagan, and Nixon. And even Goldwater in ’64.

    The reason it’s changed, and more strongly against Dems/ trolls like yourself and Montage, is that your critiques of Trump are so intellectually flabby. You insult without providing reasons or examples. And your post is also missing them, tho it does have some truth:
    Trump embodies almost everything you don’t want as a spokesperson and leader for your ideals. He hardly ever makes the case for anything, and has lost all credibility with his vast mendacity. Surely, y’all see that by now.

    People have been repulsed by him after four years – well articulated or not.

    His biggest 2016 issue was immigration. What I want in a leader is somebody who reduces illegal immigration. Trump took actions – illegal immigration is reduced. It’s hardly even an issue now. How big was it in the debates?

    He claims to put America First, and to want to Make America Great Again. His re-negotiation of trade deals has had the the effect of massive job relocations by American companies, to come back to America and reduce outsourcing.

    He’s pro-life, not pro-abortion (at least not anymore). After being the first President to give a video presentation at the annual Roe v Wade “March for Life”, almost always with little publicity from Dem media, he became the first President to join it.

    Now that I’m thinking of this, being pro-abortion is a good reason to support Biden, and quite a few Dems will come up with it. But few will start with that reason, despite abortion being the single biggest cultural war issue since the “Roe (neo) Amendment” in ’72. As AC Barret said, in contrast with non-controversial Brown to end segregation, Roe remains controversial and thus NOT a super-precedent.

    Where is Trump’s mendacity? He wasn’t dishonest with “You can keep your doctor”. Nor did he blame a terrorist attack on some video. On Trump being wire-tapped, Trump was truthful and Obama’s Dems lied.
    See how easy examples are?

    But you, like most Trump critics, don’t actually have examples. Famous folk like David Brooks and Francis Fukuyama are similarly fast to insult Trump without examples.
    So instead of losing credibility, I’d say that most folk find Trump more credible.

    You are absolutely, certainly, possibly tragically right that
    People have been repulsed by him after [ & for] four years

    As we can assume you are repulsed. Without actual examples.

    Truly, I would really appreciate it if you could articulate clearly what he has done, or his policy, which repulses you, or embarrasses you. Or what he said – if you can link to him saying it, not to some Dem media splicing of two half-cut phrases to be out of context. Like the “very fine people” who were against statues being torn down, not the white supremacists whom the media & Biden have dishonestly claimed he called “fine”.

    The thing is, it’s hard to have wounded pride, and accept that you’re wrong. There used to be folk here in 2015-2016 who talked about how terrible Trump would be, including Neo talking about her fears of Trump (I was less worried, tho still somewhat. At that time I was NeverHillary.)

    How many times does Trump have to tell the truth while the Dems & media lie before we notice that it’s usually Trump with the important truth.

    And I don’t like Trump exaggerating in order to create controversy about something that’s good. Yet it doesn’t bother me much when it means more publicity about the actual good result, rather than Dem media silence.

    Silence like they’re trying to enforce, but increasingly failing to do, on Joe Biden’s corruption thru his son. (Not so different from Hillary’s Bribery Foundation, but the Dem FBI allowed her to delete all her email evidence.)

    Please come back and tell us what you hate about Trump most – this is a Why Vote Biden post, after all.

  82. <bSnow on Pine (above) links to Andrea Widburg’s piece on the CCPs use of blackmail against the Biden Crime family syndicate to jeopardise US National Security through Veep Joe and a New President Biden.

    On the first two days of this scandal, the lawyerly Rudy Giuliani made this claim and warned us about it. Successive posts deepening the breadth and depth of these claims at thegatewaypundit are beginning to outline the case — via the Chinese-American billionaire’s media outlets out of Taiwan, named Guo, suggest that Democrat Deep State treason to China may be epic and highly dangerous.

    If so, as I’ve stated before here, President Biden will impeached by 2021, whether or not Dems retain control of the House or gain it in the Senate.

    US leadership in a world where peace is breaking out will go into eclipse. Does no one observing all this mayhem care?

    The “corrupt Biden revealed as traitor” meme should make some supporters stay home, at the least. At best, the entire war to root out Deep State evil, championed by Trump and his supporters, goes into hyperdrive.

    I expect this election turnout changing story to emerge this week, and re-shape the 2020 November 3rds final days.

  83. I think it’s important to make clear there’s nothing wrong with being put off or displeased with how Trump talks, his general demeanor, or his overall persona. It’s entirely reasonable to be annoyed and aggravated with Trump as a public figure.

    But when that reaction so overwhelms all other emotion and thought to where a person can’t even acknowledge any pro-Trump facts or arguments without losing their cool, that’s NOT normal. We didn’t see that to this extent with conservatives and Bill Clinton or Obama. We didn’t see that to this extent with liberals and Reagan or George W. Bush. Even Nixon got re-elected in 1972 with nearly 61 percent of the vote.

    Mike

  84. I think you are absolutely correct that POTUS embarrasses them. Living overseas, they are not kind to Trump, but they are not kind to most leaders, even their own. At least they have a sense of humour.

  85. The last President I could stand to listen to was Reagan, and for good reason: he knew what he was doing.

    I completely get the whole Trump-rubs-me-the-wrong-way thing, but, as others have said, I’m voting for a President, not a pastor/moral authority/drinking buddy/best friend.

  86. Listening to the Trump-Embarrassing crowd, all I can hear are the mean girls in High School talking about the class president vote: nothing but a shallow popularity contest for the ‘coolest’ kid.

    And Big Maq, sell your agitprop elsewhere because it doesn’t look like anyone’s buying.

  87. Said it before and I’m saying it again, this time with Big Maq added to reliable Montage:

    Contributions by Montage and Big Maq enhance our conversations here. We get to read points of view that have meaning, as contrasted with “Trump is icky and all good people detest him.” I personally find myself in general disagreement with Montage and Big Maq, but I appreciate the opportunity to

    – read their perspective and compare it with my own, and
    – read other commenters’ perspectives as to how they counter those guys’ claims.

    It’s more interesting that way, to me, at least. (And others are welcome to disagree.)

  88. Tom Gray:

    Big Maq posted volumes of anti-Trump opinions in 2016. I posted many as well. He hasn’t learned or changed his opinions since then. I (so it must be significant, not) have been very pleased to find that I was wrong about Trump. You welcome him? What does that say about you? There will be significant detrimental consequences if the Democrats expand their power IMO. You good with that?

  89. I don’t want to see Big Maq chased away. I want to see him follow up on some very specific predictions he made in 2016 regarding Trump’s supposed closet leftism emerging, regarding Trump’s predicted descent into tyrannical or at least authoritarian lawlessness, regarding an economy which crashes due to the Trump administration’s incompetent economic policy decisions; and then what Hillary was likely to have done tolerably better.

    But Maq,

    Instead of your predictions coming true, we had record employment among minorities, peace agreements and normalized relations breaking out in the Middle East; no wars; renegotiated trade deals; a systematic and progressive rescinding of Obama generated executive orders; the hamstringing of the damnable Obamacare individual mandate; conservative rule of law affirming federal judicial appointments; and better SC nominations than anyone could have reasonably hoped for.

    So other than the outraged feelings of a bunch of neurotic church ladies of both sexes, in government and out, and who are hysterical at his “cruel tone”, and over the wounding of their vanity or the diminishment of their insider status by his disregard ( if you can come to terms with the fact that people that pathetic are even ennobled with the franchise) what have you got to actually point to?

    Others have asked. And I am now asking too.

    What would Hillary have done better to make us more free and safer: and list those Trump administration successes which you would have willingly foregone in order to realize it.

  90. Big Maq won’t be chased away. But doubtful that he will answer any of DNW’s questions. Concern trolls are hard to pin down IMO.

  91. When I think of the appeal of a candidate, I usually think of three things: policy, person, and rhetoric. My sense is that many Biden voters are less motivated by Biden’s appeal in these three categories, as they are motivated to vote for Biden because they are repelled by Trump in the categories of person and rhetoric. Who he is, his personal style, and what he says are what drive voters away from Trump to “anyone but…” But that’s your two candidate race for you. We are often voting for who we deem to be the second worst.

  92. Neo – “Finally she added, “He embarrasses me. It embarrasses me that he’s the president of the United States.”
    When she said that, I thought “Bingo! That’s the essence of it.” Something about Trump – or perhaps many things about Trump – are simply repugnant to a lot of people. Many are women, but there are plenty of men in the group as well.”

    So how do we answer someone who is embarrassed to have Trump as their president? All the responses touch on this. Here is how I propose to handle it. Use the Socratic method of questioning to first disarm and dig down to the base reason. They just don’t like his style and provide a counter narrative.

    Here is some of the questions that I have used. You ask a calm manner and not a hectoring tone. Have a sense of curiosity about their viewpoint so it is not an attack on them but of their assumptions. In this case the “personal is not the political” as stated by the left.

    • So you are embarrassed by Middle East Peace treaties Trump brokered between Israel and now 4 Moslem countries?
    • You are embarrassed by his peace deal between Serbia and Kosovo?
    • You are embarrassed by his 4 nominations for the Nobel Peace prize because of these actions. The Nobel Peace prize are just meaningless publicity awards?
    • You are embarrassed by his ending the ISIS Caliphate that enslaved women?
    After a couple of questions follow up with an added sentence. “so that embarrasses you”.
    • You are embarrassed by Second Chance Act that released non-violent minorities for drug crimes for disproportionate prison terms as championed by Biden?
    • You are embarrassed by the record low unemployment rate of black men, women and Latinos before COVID?
    • You are embarrassed that Trump has put in long term funding for Historically Black Colleges instead of having them come back from year after year to beg for funds?
    • You are embarrassed that Trump doesn’t support free health care for illegal aliens?
    • You are embarrassed that he has stopped illegal immigration but not legal immigration?
    o So to you, laws are “suggestions” and not absolute. Thus if someone in power determines that they can spy on someone you don’t like it is okay…..just like the FBI did on Martin Luther King?
    o That enforcing laws that Congress passed are not important?
    • You are embarrassed that he met with Kim Jung Il who has not performed a single nuclear or missile test since meeting with him after conducting 4 tests during Obama’s term?
    • You are embarrassed that he is stopping Chinese technology theft through spying?
    • You are embarrassed that he put tariffs on dumped Chinese goods that forced them to agree to buy more US products?
    • You are embarrassed that he scrapped NAFTA for USMC and stopped the export of US jobs?
    o What would be super powerful to this question is if you lost your job to China or Mexico like I lost my job of 35 years. Or someone that both of you know.
    • You are embarrassed by the US having energy independence while reducing its carbon emissions? Something no other country can claim.
    o That embarrasses you?
    • You are embarrassed that he withdrew from the Paris Accords that doesn’t have China or India doing any carbon mitigation until after 2035 when global climate change experts say is too late?
    • You are embarrassed that he gave Ukraine weapons that stopped Russia from overrunning the country? That Obama/Biden policy of providing non-lethal aid like blankets and food was the proper response to an armed invasion?
    • You are embarrassed that Germany and France now have to pay more for their defense which makes them very angry?
    • You are embarrassed that his administration has made more arrests for human trafficking in the last few years than Bush and Obama did in 16 years?
    o That he has set-up a task force to combat human trafficking which the wall is an integral part. You are embarrassed about this?

    Moving to COVID response. That has to be handled very carefully based on a person’s frame of reference. Some good people are VERY safety minded.
    • You are embarrassed that Trump put on a travel ban from China than Europe that all the Democrats condemned particularly Biden?
    • That he put into place OPERATION WARP SPEED to develop a vaccine?
    • That he followed the scientists when Fauci said masks don’t work in March?
    o You are embarrassed by that?
    • You are embarrassed he still says wear a mask even when the WHO says they are ineffective?
    • You are embarrassed that Trump is now moving production of Pharmaceutical precursor chemicals from China back to the US that happened under Bush and Obama?
    o That embarrasses you?
    Please add more “you are embarrassed comments” to this post.

    Now you can move to a “So you support”.
    • Spying on a political opponent?
    • That people private conversations, emails and financial records can be unmasked by law enforcement, the IRS and spy agencies without consequence to the people who did it?
    • So you support unleashing the power of the state to make up crimes and prosecute people you don’t like?
    • So you support an urbane measured smooth talking teleprompter reader who assures you that “if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. Period.” In other an ineffectual “No Drama Obama” that incompetently implemented OBAMACARE and destroyed many people’s healthcare plans. But he sure gives a good speech….period.
    • That you support involving the military in overseas adventures that don’t end.
    • That you support the political class being able enrich themselves by selling their ability to impact policy including outside influences.

    I always say that Trump is the Andrew Jackson of our age. That he overthrew the established “polite, urbane society” set and opened up the west for settlement.

    Conclude with what is more important to you: style or substance? Do you like being politely lied to about what someone intends to do vs. someone who gets something done. How Trump has done more in 47 months then Biden did in 47 years.

    You don’t have to change their mind at that point. Just have them examine their assumptions. Change is a process and not a moment. Hopefully this helps in your conversations about Trump and his temperament.

    I welcome other suggestions.

  94. I am Spartacus.

    I think DNW (@ 8:06 pm) poses an excellent challenge: “. . . list those Trump administration successes which you would have willingly foregone . . .”

  95. Spartacus. Lots of work there. But it’s useless. The folks you talk about/to don’t know from policy or reality.
    They hate. First, they hated. Then they made up or bought nonsense about Trump. Since abandoning the nonsense means abandoning the hate which makes them feel so good, they can’t afford to entertain your questions.
    I’ve tried. Second or third of your questions and it’s either barely controlled hysteria or some physical manifestation of an impending seizure.
    On one level, they know where you’re going and they can’t afford to go there.
    If you could publish an article listing the questions in, say, the WaPo or NYT, you wouldn’t be getting many accolades for a calm, dispassionate discussion.
    As an example, I know several people who still pitch Hands up, don’t shoot while, in conversation I find they know better. They’re not deliberately lying. On one level they know better and on another….they don’t. Really weird. I’m sure there are folks with a two-track mind as regards most of the other themes you address.

  96. Richard Aubry;

    That is really sad about those folks. Disgust is a potent emotion when cultivated by a political party and fanned by the media. It is the tool of genocide.

  97. Richard – it is tough and I recommend that you don’t spend much extended time with them at one time. Just a couple of questions and state okay we will disagree on this and part in amenity not enmity. Then if you engage again bring up other points. Short exchanges with no emotional involvement from you. If it is a family member that can be tough.

    Each seed of doubt you plant has the potential to grow like Luke 8:4-15. At some point you may hit good soil but without trying you will never achieve it.

    I firmly believe that there are more damning revelations coming out this week that will cause many people to re-examine their assumptions about “good old Joe”. You may end up getting results. In the end, you tried, so you will not be counted among the cold timid souls that know neither victory or defeat like those in Theodore Roosevelt’s “Man in the Arena” speech.

  98. They hate Trump because they’re embarrassed he’s their President? Aren’t these the same people who think America Is a the world’s bully, filled with rampant inequality and a history of racism and imperialism? That doesn’t make any sense.

  99. There is a visceral hatred for Trump and for his supporters.

    If you have the stomach for it; read this Fox News Report and watch the twitter videos embedded throughout it.

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/anti-protesters-attack-jews-trump-vehicle-convoy-new-york

    Rocks, eggs, and other items are thrown at the cars of supporters of Trump. Flags are ripped off their cars.

    Some of it done in front of cops. I think the cops are too outnumbered to do anything except keep the traffic moving.

    How sad that we have come to this – violence against others because of their political viewpoint. And this violence is coming from the left without left-of-center politicians condemning it.
    Lord, how I hope Trump wins big and these haters go away.

  100. Charles, the haters will not go away. They are now part of the leftist resistance to be called up when needed. However there is a problem. They can only function in areas that allow it. That means places with Democratic governors, mayors and district attorneys. In other words they can only destroy in their own power base.

    Detroit will not let it happen. Texas will not let it happen in Houston and Austin. Eugene Oregon will not let it happen. The suburbs will not let it happen. My guess that NYC, Miami, Chicago and Minneapolis will not let it happen because:
    1) the election is over
    2) the government has seen the gapping budget holes they face because of it.

    Seattle and Portland probably will. But as I tell people who complain about it. Remember the citizens voted for it.

  103. “Embarrassment” points to a deeper cause: shame.
    There is shame.
    There is fear.
    There is the shame of being fearful.
    There is the fear of being shamed.
    Underneath it all are material anxieties, particularly the fear of losing money.
    How do people react to such a witch’s brew of negative emotions? With anger and arrogance and a desire for vengeance.

  104. Sarah Hoyt posted a link to this “Walkaway” article on Instapundit:

    https://archive.vn/cDYRy

    She credits Jonathan Haidt with giving her a glimpse into the minds of conservatives. She also mentions Jordan P.

  105. Nancy+P:

    The author of the article you cited has commented in Neo’s current post about Biden’s vote fraud comment, has a Latin title. In senectas veritas …

  106. Om: Thanks, I missed the late-night additions to that thread. Marissa — great article.

  107. A little off-topic, but another “walkaway” story FWIW (H/T Sarah Hoyt @ Instapundit). When an essay about voting anti-Progressive begins with this what does it imply for next week’s election?

    My first reaction after the 2016 election, after I stopped crying — the tears lasted awhile — was to convene an emotional support group that excluded cis straight white men. Because, of course. Safety first.

    The link:

    https://archive.vn/cDYRy

  108. Yes, that link is getting a whole lot of traction.
    (And deservedly so. It’s a phenomenal “change” story.)

  109. Sarah Hoyt posted a link to this “Walkaway” article on Instapundit:

    https://archive.vn/cDYRy

    She credits Jonathan Haidt with giving her a glimpse into the minds of conservatives. She also mentions Jordan P.”

    I read the entire essay. As it did not include a precisely delineated timeline it was impossible for me to properly weigh the factors which furthered her transformation into a reluctant Trump voter. My guess is that it had as much to do with homeless encampments proposed or dumped on her front yard and back as with anything else. And the subsequently shockingly (at least to her) unsympathetic and gimlet-eyed response she got from the local social credit commissars when she did dare to seek what she imagined was morally deserved relief for a good progressive soldier.

    Her description of living in the nightmarish psychological world of a morally unbalanced leftism is striking: as the experience spiraled down from the once comforting progressive social bubble she relished, into a hellscape of drug infested homeless camps, and Maoist struggle sessions.

    One of the things about the presentation itself that I did find interesting enough to note, but which I cannot properly label as a phenomenon psychological, social, or psycho-social, is the “frame” you might call it, in which all these events are placed; or maybe the “voice” which announces them.

    It is a to me peculiar – if not never before encountered – contextualizing of the issue in terms of a kind of overall long term personal drama of identity, righteous struggle, and credentialing.

    This woman’s points with regard to what she has observed are interesting and valid. But, the repeated references to, and recitation of her bona fides as integral to her “social credit” and therefore by implcation, her human value as one of the “good” people is telling.

    It fits in with what seems to be a psychological trait of people who identify as “left”: which manifests as an unusually deep desire for acceptance and inclusion, (at least for those morally credentialed enough to obtain it) and the elevation of those two phenomena to the pinnacle of human virtues.

    Of course, although being entitled to or deserving of the longed for place in the “circle dance” may require credentials and.social credit, that credit may itself come in different forms.: as the expert, or as the benign director for instance, or as say, a deserving victim, or as a social cooperator and loyal drone. As she describes it, she ostensibly qualified in both of the latter categories.

    In the case of the instant author, some of these recitations are merely meant to highlight the irony involved in her own marginalization.

    But the original and underlying social credentializing dogma “speaks loudly” as they themselves say, even during her evolving rejection of some of the quotidian details.

    This, trait, or whatever a professional psychologist might call it, seems on reflection to me, to be a pretty interesting aspect of, or addendum to, those moral outlines developed by Haidt, Peterson, and others.

  111. It’s come to this–https://thepostmillennial.com/rifle-carrying-trans-muslim-antifa-arrested-at-riot-in-phoenix

    We are truly stuck in the midst of Heinlein’s “Crazy Years.”

  112. Anti trump girls have daddy issues, men insecurities, and other traumas to work through.

    Om, did you know you write more than ymar here, now?

  113. Big Maq:

    Or, you can continue with the orgiastic pile-on about how bad those people who vote Dem and/or for Biden are (and, by implication, how superior you are). It may make you feel better, but it is not healthy.

    Snow on Pine

    Here are some new gems from a recent interview with Hillary, about how most Republicans are “spineless cowards” and “enablers.”

    Big Maq pot, meet kettle. That was not surprising, given Hillary’s calling Republicans “deplorables” four years ago.

    As it’s been 24 hours since Big Maq has commented, and hasn’t commented since, I suspect Big Maq isn’t coming back.

  115. I note that at one of his few rallies, a day or two ago in the key state of Pennsylvania, Biden labeled Trump supporters there as “chumps.”

    Why do the Democrats insist on calling people who oppose them–people who they could potentially win over to their side–by insulting, demeaning, nasty names?

    Now I see that Biden has reportedly decided–or rather his wife and his other handlers have decided–that he will no longer do any in person campaigning, but will retreat back into his basement, and will not reemerge until the election day on November 3rd.

    We’ve got a candidate for President in Biden who might as well be an slow, old, lumbering, blinking Turtle, who’s just pulled in his head, and closed his shell tight.

  116. I hope both Big Maq, and Montage, and other Trump haters come back. As M J R answered “it’s more interesting” to the question OM was about to ask:
    You welcome him? What does that say about you?

    It IS more interesting to hear thoughts I disagree with, or that I haven’t thought, or new ideas.

    These hundred comment threads are verging on, if not achieving, an Echo Chamber effect. And I’m comfy here with a hundred other comments expressing why those who vote Biden are wrong, sharing my own conclusions and thought processes.

    But the hundred different ways of basically saying what I’m already thinking are not as interesting as a dozen comments about the alternative, why Trump is so bad, or Biden is better.
    OK, not a single comment on Biden being better, but a couple on why Trump is still worse.

    Without examples of actions, but with various insults that have meaning, tho it’s not clear how much more than a continuation of embarrassment: Trump is so icky. Yech.

    The link to Candace Mercer in WA of a progressive who is voting Trump was quite interesting. As DNW noted, the circle dance inclusionism (not yet a spell check word, inclusionism) is prominent.

    Spartacus has a nice list of possible conversation gambits with Liberal/ Dem friends.

    The one I’m now planning to use is based solely on embarrassment:

    “As the evidence comes out that Joe Biden is both corrupt and senile, aren’t you going to be embarrassed to vote for him?” … Such voters should be embarrassed.

  117. Looking though Lee Harris interesting and, unfortunately, all too relevant 2004 book, “Civilization and It’s Enemies: The Next Stage of History “ and immediately found a couple of quotes that seem to be very applicable to our situation today.

    Re—today’s college populations, triggering, safe spaces, microaggressions, and panic rooms.

    # 1 “…history is strewn with the wrecks of nations which have gained a little progressiveness at the cost of a great deal of hard manliness, and have thus prepared themselves for destruction as soon at the movements of the world give a chance for it.”

    Walter Bagehot, “Physics and Politics.”

    #2 Re—how our several generations of relative peace and plenty here in the U.S. have created in most of us a “great forgetfulness” about the usual condition of humans over the course of our 6,000 years of history, far too little appreciation for how extraordinarily fortunate we are to be living here in the U.S. at this moment in history, and about both the rarity and the fragility of “civilization”–

    “Forgetfulness occurs when those who have been long accustomed to civilized order can no longer remember a time in which they had to wonder whether their crops would grow to maturity without being stolen or whether their children would be sold into slavery by a victorious foe. Even then it is necessary for the parents and even grandparents, to have forgotten as well, so that there is no living link between the tranquility of the present generation and those dismal periods in which the world behaved very much in accordance with the rules governing Thomas Hobbes’s state of nature where human life was “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.”

    Preface, pp. xi-xii.

  118. Tom Gray:

    You appear not to have any experience with Big Maq and his comment style. Do you know the difference between an argument and gainsay? Do you know what a concern troll is?

    I get all the progressive leftist cant from the media every day. Intelligent conservative views and opinions have to be sought out; Neo and most of her followers provide a respite from that progressive and leftist bilge.

    Maybe Big Maq will surprise everyone who has interacted with him and find him reformed, his lastest comments seem much like those from 4 years ago.

    “Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.”

  119. Fractal Rabbit, with whom I more often agree wrt Trump, also says Big Maq is not welcome. I get too angry at most Dem media to watch too much of it — and Slovak news (in Slovak) is not yet nearly so PC.

    On the question “what motivates Biden voters”, I put a lot more emphasis on what is said by those who seem to be Biden voters, or NeverTrump folk (as I was NeverHillary).

    In the great WA Candy Mercer link, I was struck by how much she had to personally suffer with terrible Left (Dem!) policy on homelessness before she saw how terrible it was.

    I’d guess neither Montage nor Big Maq has had their own neighborhood invaded by homeless drug addicts demanding special gov’t allowance to violate laws of property and norms of decent behavior.

    Reminds me that most everybody can learn from their own mistakes, but wise folk learn from the mistakes of others. Wise, not necessarily highly credentialed college professors who hate all Republicans but are willing to claim:
    “Real Socialism hasn’t been tried.”
    Candace from WA shows that antifa is acting like an alt-Nazi party. Candace is great, but for this post she’s important on a few things:
    a) “fighting the good fight” << her PC causes seem mostly wrong to me, but she thinks of herself as always on the good side
    b) the need for love and acceptance and actual tolerance. Which she has been getting more from conservatives than from her former peers.

    Most folk here with Neo are mostly tolerant.

    Tho there is a tendency of a couple of commenters to act like trolls in replacing discussions of disagreements with insults. Sometimes without even being able to correctly read the name of the person they're insulting, G R E Y in my case. My real name (chosen, not born with). Tho I'm now safe from being fired for my real thoughts.

    I recall "Demosthenes" and "Locke" as the "net" names in the 1985 book Ender’s Game, by Orson Scott Card — even before most folk knew of the internet & email. He was an early target of anti-Christian cancel culture because he’s a Mormon.

  120. Tom Grey:

    I apologize for misspelling your name as “Gray.” If you took that as an insult, well my surname has an embarrassing and common mis-spelling. Life can be tough (or not) in that way.

  121. om on October 26, 2020 at 1:17 pm said:

    My point is that you are becoming a type of Ymar. Ymar is what Ymar will be. What is your point?

    I apologize for misspelling your name as “Gray.”

    It’s like you are flipping between different channels. The old Toxic Om vs the mirror that will be Ymar, and the current you that has positive emotins. So strange.

    I get all the progressive leftist cant from the media every day.

    No wonder your emotions are contaminated.

    Maybe Big Maq will surprise everyone who has interacted with him and find him reformed, his lastest comments seem much like those from 4 years ago.

    When I brought up your behavior from 4 years ago, Om, you reacted negatively to it. Why are you engaging in behaviors you dislike?

    Used to be there was opportunity for good debate, but now it suffers from Democrat Derangement Syndrome.

    Been Ymarized.

  124. om, your insult, which is similar to arrogant snide insults from many college indoctrinated grads, was “Do you know the difference between an argument and gainsay? Do you know what a concern troll is?”

    So, technically you’re not saying I’m too stupid / ignorant to know, but actually you sort of are saying that, by asking the question.

    My note on the name spelling is a small counter-insult that you’re not even being careful enough with those you want to insult to get their names correct. It’s also likely true – if you’re not careful with the name, are you really careful with the thought the commenter is trying to express?

    If you thought I was insulted by your small, and all too common mistake (I have lots of experience with it), you’re wrong, I wasn’t. I was amused in a superiority way. If you deliberately were doing so, that would be an insult, but how would I know?

    Since I don’t spend much time with Dem news or Dem sites, or any politicians on TV, I avoid most of the Dem/ Leftist cant, their crap, so it’s understandable you want to be among thinking folk who haven’t drunk that Kool-Aid yet. (Spellcheck capitalized it).

    But for me, I’d like more thinking people to be here trying to give their views on why they support the Dems, or hate Trump. I often read Althouse for such reasons, but her commenters don’t impress me much.
    Powerline, Instapundit, and Marginal Revolution all generally have too many comments.

    Arnold Kling of ASKBLOG also has fine insights, and good commenters (esp. Handle). Often with a POV from his book, Three Languages of Politics. One of which is the dominant “Oppressor-Oppressed” axis. He’s much less political, and more economic.

  125. Tom Grey:

    Occams razor, on your name Grey, consider that I have very poor typing skills. You can build upon that and refuse the apology. But in any case I am glad to have given you amusement in your “superiority way” (not really familiar with such high concepts). Such is life.

    Did you consider that Big Maq uses those methods IMO? I’m asking a question, you may be offended or even insulted. But enough about me, tell me more about yourself as you tend to do. I’ll try to just scroll by your tomes in the future.

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