Romney wants to be the leader of the NeverTrumpers
Mitt Romney is a strange case for a politician.
He lacks the common touch completely, which is probably the main reason he lost in 2012 and helped us get four more years of Obama. Although Romney was far from my favorite of the rather anemic choices available to the GOP in 2012, once he was nominated I supported him fully against Obama, as I would today if it were to somehow happen all over again.
In that sense – the “consider the alternative” sense – it was an easy thing to do. It was easy in another sense, too, because on a personal level Romney was and still is the kind of guy who doesn’t cheat on his wife or beat his kids. The worst thing Democrats could come up with in that sense was a prank in high school and putting his windshield-equipped dog carrier (with the dog in it) on the roof of his car for a 12-hour road trip.
Romney the politician was another story. It’s not true that he didn’t fight back at least somewhat in 2012 or that he didn’t criticize Obama. He did both, as I detailed in posts at the time. But he did not do so effectively, and not at all at especially critical times (the awful Candy Crowley intervention in debate number two being a prime example). I think Romney would have been a mediocre but okay president and a much better one than Obama (a low bar, to be sure), but he had and still has no big constituency and no large following, although he seems to be aiming to be the leader of the rather small but vocal group of GOP NeverTrumpers.
In addition, I think that Trump fills Romney with personal revulsion to go with the political envy. Trump is the un-Romney: he’s richer than Romney (hard to accomplish, because Romney is plenty rich) but has the common touch, he’s relaxed in front of the camera rather than stiff, he’s cheated on wives, and he fights. He fights and fights and fights, rather than turning the other cheek. Plus, Trump won the election and Romney lost, and then Trump did some public humiliating of Romney.
It’s with that sad background that I’ll (briefly) take up the subject of Romney’s speech criticizing Trump’s decision on Turkey and the Kurds. It’s certainly possible to criticize that decision, and as I’ve said several times we don’t know how this will work out or not work out. But I’ve read the speech, and the fact that Romney calls the Kurds an “ally” and says that we are therefore abandoning that ally to our dishonor and shame, and yet doesn’t mention that it is Turkey that is actually an ally of ours (NATO, for example) in the formal sense, seems to be a major major omission of a vital fact. Talk about simplifying the matter!
If Trump went all-in for the Kurds, they would be screeching about how he was unfit for office for turning on our ally Turkey. Every single thing Trump does is manipulated and presented in the most negative possible light.
Romney is just the sort of guy who could give moderation a bad odor . . . possibly the least erotic public man of our lifetime. I suspect the actual Calvin Coolidge (as opposed to the hagiographic) by comparison would come off as a veritable magnetic Tarzan.
Romney’s circle of influence is other elites. I noticed that in 2012 when he went about cultivating the support of political leaders rather than the voters. Trump’s description of Romney as a “pompous ass” is pretty close to the truth, the pompous part for sure. Will Romney be successful? I doubt it, we are in a time when the elites are in low repute and falling lower all the time. And that applies as much to Pelosi as to Romney. Hillary is a sad relic of failure, Romney is headed the same way.
sdferr:
Romney is not the “least erotic public figure of your lifetime.” That honor goes to so many people I could not begin to list them.
As a woman who has seen Romney up close and personal (I was a few feet away during a speech of his in 2012) I can say that although “erotic” is definitely not a word I’d use to describe him, in the flesh (as it were) he was astoundingly handsome, much more so than in photos, and had a remarkably nice body for his age.
Clothed, of course.
Handsome I wouldn’t quibble with as an appellation. I just don’t see any eros in the man at all, not concerning any human appetite I can imagine. Not for food, music, dance, plastic arts, what have you . . . all to say nothing of the physical pleasures of body. It’s . . . oh wait, maybe he likes to ski? But come on, it is to laugh.
Romney is more a democrat of the old school (i.e., does not hate the USA) than a republican; JFK was probably more conservative than Romney.
That aside, I wish he would just go away.
As president, he would be a go along/get along liberal and fit right in with Pelosi, Schumer and the deep state bureaucrats. His policies would not be too unlike those of Obama.
Recall, he instituted a form of Obama-care in MA., before Obama was president.
I think that Mormons are expected to “donate” some % of their income each year to the Mormon church or some Mormon cause.
Romney would implement policies that mimic this Mormon “generosity” via taxes, regulatory edicts, open borders and sucking up to the EU and NATO as did Obama.
There are allies and there are allies. Some allies are nominal only, and while smiling at us to our face, they stab us in the back at every opportunity. Other allies stick with us through hard times and easy ones. Guess which type Turkey (and Germany, France and several other NATO members) is/are, and which type the Kurds (who did most of the actual fighting against ISIS, while we simply “advised”) were. While the idea of an isolated Fortress America is appealing to some (and probably worked prior to 1930), we are no longer protected by the oceans and haven’t been since Pearl Harbor. The concept of alliances is not a binary one; it covers a wide spectrum of viewpoints and not just “if you don’t do everything we want, you’re the enemy.” Where a particular nation or group falls within that spectrum should determine whether an “alliance” with that nation or group is worthwhile forming or keeping. With that concept in mind, it seems to me that a demonstrated willingness to support our geopolitical views should count favorably for a lot, as should the contrary in a negative manner. With the single exception of allowing us to pay it for occupying, maintaining and using the air force base at Incerlik, I can’t think of a single thing that Turkey has done to justify its claim to be an “ally” of the United States.
After this, who would want to run against the dems in terms of what they do if you might actually win… even more so if your not really a connected insider like romney and trained by whatever forces to all look the other way the same way
Mitt is a “latter day saint”.
I’ll take the sinner Trump – any day.
looking back those flip-flopping you tube videos produced by Obama supporters in 2012 were dead on.
also it would not have been to hard to fight back with these two simple phrases even in the presence of puffy Crawley
1.” Ford didn’t take the money”
2. ” Candy and Mr President, we don’t need an ongoing investigation to find out why YOU didn’t send on relief forces into Benghazi, and why you went to sleep”
Jonah Goldberg said it best in 2012-
: if a German mad scientist synthesized the perfect candidate it would be Romney”
hmonrdick:
The point is not “who is the better ally?”. The point is that Turkey is an ally and member of NATO, and to ignore that fact while discussing the region is an omission of major proportions that makes the person doing the discussing subject to distrust.
Trump’s electoral victory caught almost everyone by surprise, and that included me. But I think Trump’s victory compared to Mitt’s lackluster 2012 campaign makes Romney stew in the juices of his envy. He should have stayed in Utah and enjoyed spending time with his family, but his ego was not prepared to retire to private life.
Turkey is indeed an “ally” in treaty only.
But the Kurds are no saints, and going to war to save them would be extreme foolishness. The PKK is a terrorist organisation. OK, they may have been driven to it by the Turks xenophobia, but that doesn’t not make it a terrorist organisation.
We were all encouraged to forget the ANC’s background when they came to power in South Africa, but the result of letting a party without roots in democracy have control of a country is going to bear evil fruit.
He wants to lead Never Trumpers. I think their numbers are shrinking.
When Trump began his run, I thought he was another NY Republican, a liberal who would not favor conservative policies. If Democrats had tried to work with him instead of going permanently insane, they might have been able to implement some of their policies. As it is, Trump has moved consistently more conservative as his term has progressed and his enemies have gone farther over the edge.
Well, when you start by calling 47% of Americans lazy welfare chiselers and go from there…
Romney just couldn’t stop himself, he had to come out from behind that carefully constructed Dudley do right persona, to show us what he’s really all about.
Just another one of the inside the Beltway Dorian Grays lumbering about, and littering our political landscape.
The Kurds may not be technical allies, but from all I’ve read they are considered brothers in arms by the U.S. special forces they fought along side. The military feels deep shame about this.
“The military feels deep shame about this.”
It’s true. Thanks, Obama!
Just another one of the inside the Beltway Dorian Grays lumbering about
He’s spent his life in Detroit and Boston, with brief periods of residency in France, California, and Utah. Not a sterling example of the Capitol Hill nexus.
He should have stayed in Utah and enjoyed spending time with his family, but his ego was not prepared to retire to private life.
He’s had intermittent periods of residency in Utah since 1968, but his life and work have been in Boston. No clue why he’s doing what he’s doing or why Republican pols and primary voters in Utah didn’t hand him his a** and say that with all due respect we are not represented in Congress by residents of Boston. (There seems to be greater tolerance than there once was for this sort of carpetbagging. Still, Elizabeth Dole had actually grown up in North Carolina and had close family there, even if she hadn’t lived there since 1957).
Mitt is not alone — in the Washington Post today by Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell: “Withdrawing from Syria is a grave mistake”; here’s some of it:
Sorry Ann but no. Not all or even a majority of the soldiers think the Kurds are brothers in arms.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10220193138123634&id=1382260304&sfnsn=mo
I checked out a Cologne newspaper on line, and police are expecting a protest of 10,000 tomorrow and that there will be violence. There weren’t many details, but I suspect that part of it was organized by Turkey-appointed imams. This will probably tick off Germans. There were no reports on TV tonight, but I’ll let you know tomorrow what happens.
I’m not yet convinced Trump is right to pull back; nor convinced that he’s wrong. I am sure it reduces US body bags in the short term.
The Kurds can be fine fighters, but who is their leader? They are disunited, and, divided by themselves, they fall easy prey to regional recognized countries. The comment about S. Africa’s ANC getting power is important — Mandela was a great leader. Those who followed him, also stupid socialists like Mandela was, were tribalists and anti-capitalists, and SA looks about to go down the ex-Rhodesia path from exporter to poor importer. That would be Kurdistan’s path too, with socialists in charge. I don’t hear any Trump-critics calling for Kurdistan, tho. (Maybe?)
It looks like Romney hates Trump’s style — and, despite the fact that vulgar style and incivility was quite strong against him AND against McCain, and very much against Palin (called a c*nt on public TV, Letterman suggested her daughter should be raped on a baseball field); yet the Reps were “above that”. And losers. Romney prefers to be the Good Loser. In the comic books, the good guys win.
In most of real life, the winners start looking like the good guys.
Trump constantly talks about how he’s winning. (A verbal tic I no longer like from his tweets.)
Romney, McConnell, and other Trump critics should be explaining their vision of victory. Since they don’t really have one, vaguely being against the influence expansion of “the brutal Assad regime in Syria and its Iranian backers” — this looks a lot more like Endless War than anything else. 17 years after mediocre US occupation & pacification, Afghanistan remains a mess, ready to get worse as the US leaves.
Romney should follow Carter’s example and build houses with poor folk for poor folk. Or something constructive. On the other hand, maybe it’s better Romney the loser being the Rep who gets on TV (a LOT) to oppose the Rep President, rather than Rubio, Cruz, or some other possible Rep future pick. Getting a lot of free TV is most probably Romney’s semi-addiction, and the easy, sure way to get Publicity is to publicly oppose Trump.
McConnell has been great on judges – but lousy on lots of other stuff. Not sure whether better or worse than Graham, who also opposes the pull out. But I doubt that the Kurds are going to be slaughtered, and I’m pretty sure Trump is setting up his opponents as supporters of Endless War, with never a victory. That’s certainly a loser label.
Trump is a genius at giving labels to losers.
Neo, for what it’s worth, I’m grateful you haven’t seen Romney naked.
The neocons have never seen a foreign military mission that they could resist. Dims, only dim adventures like Libya.
No clear objective no clear unconditional path to annihilation of the enemy, stay home.
Pill up the bodies, make the rubble turn to dust, or stay home.
There is a clear divide in thinking between the veterans and the rest of America. Including using the veterans positions which in the Kurds case is diverse and complicated to reinforce political positions.
It annoys me because if there is one thing I’ve learnt is at least the veterans themselves are willing to openly discuss those diverse opinions among themselves. But we’ve all had to be careful when we publicly express it for fear of it being used as the mono position of the veterans as one group.
The Kurd’s is a perfect example of what I’m talking about. Since Neo herself cannot find consensus by people on the field it should behove the American people to try to talk it out first instead on condemnation.
Pardon the crude analogy but Romney saying, “I am the leader of the NeverTrumpers!” is like saying “I have a two-inch dick!”
Mitt in 2019: protecting Kurds ‘one of our most sacred duties’
Mitt in 2007: ‘Kurdish nationalism could destabilize the border with Turkey’
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/10/mitt_in_2019_protecting_kurds_one_of_our_most_sacred_duties_but_mitt_in_2007_kurdish_nationalism_could_destabilize_the_border_with_turkey.html
Condemning Trump’s removal of the small force in Syria because it’s disloyal to the Kurds is an easy thing to do, if you think we should stay there indefinitely.
Two things to remember:
1. The lands overrun by ISIS were mostly Kurdish areas. The Kurds had no chance against ISIS until we showed up. We did them a huge favor by helping them remove ISIS. In Iraq it was the Kurdish Pesh Merga that fought with us. In Syria it was the Kurdish PKK. The Pesh Merga are a less radical group than the PKK. The PKK and the Turks have long been fighting one another. The new, stronger Kurdish PKK enclave along Turkey’s southeastern border was going to cause unease in Turkey. Thus, the Turks want a buffer zone. I said once before, that such a zone might be diplomatically agreed upon in a different area of the world. In Syria at this time? Not so much. Yet, Trump may have the possibility of doing just that. It depends on how much the two sides want less bloodshed. That remains to be seen.
2. Assad seems to have survived the war of regime change. at least for now. Trump shows no interest in toppling Assad. The problem is that Assad will let Iran move money, men, and weapons to Hezbollah and near the Golan Heights. This puts Israel in more danger. It also strengthens Russia’s toe hold in the ME. The question is, how do we blunt this threat? Leaving a sizable force in Syria is one way, but that invites endless low level conflict. Maybe Trump’s answer is to keep ratcheting up the pressure on Iran while encouraging Israel to take whatever defensive measures they need to keep Iran and Hezbollah at bay. It’s a difficult problem both diplomatically and militarily. I hope Trump can find a way to solve it with less U.S. bloodshed and treasure. I’m willing to give him a chance to do it his way.
. The lands overrun by ISIS were mostly Kurdish areas.
No. Sunni Arab zones.
I can say that although “erotic” is definitely not a word I’d use to describe him, in the flesh (as it were) he was astoundingly handsome,
I met him in 2008 when he was beginning his campaign for 2012. I would describe him as “Mormon Nice.” Not a slur as I know many Mormons and had a accountant and lawyer for many years. It is a sort of characteristic that makes me wonder if there is a course they take.
I have also read that there may be a Romney-Ukraine connection.
Senator Mitt Romney may have a connection to Joe Biden’s alleged corruption scandal in Ukraine. According to a report released on Thursday, Romney’s top aide in the 2012 presidential campaign, J. Cofer Black, has served on the board of Ukrainian energy company Burisma Holdings since 2017.
Maybe Romney switching sides is a tactical move. I have also seen a reference to a Romney son connection.
Hmmm. Cofer Black is a CIA veteran.
Not much reporting on that protest march in Cologne, but it seems like it was more of a protest against Turkey’s invasion of Syria. I haven’t heard of any Turkish or Kurdish counterprotests. The US consulate warned about going to areas in Cologne, but now it seems they were being overcautious.
Art Deco: “No. Sunni Arab zones.”
My bad. In trying to sketch the big picture, I was too general.To be more precise, it was mostly Kurdish territory in Syria. The Kurds are a subset of the Sunnis. At its peak, ISIS controlled nearly all of Syrian Kurdistan, and was on the border of Iraqi Kurdistan and threatening them.
See map:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-27838034
The Pesh Merga was willing to battle ISIS in Mosul and the surrounding areas to keep ISIS out of their territory and help their fellow Sunnis. In Syria it was the PKK Kurds who helped fight to liberate their territory in Syria. It was a symbiotic relationship, and we probably owe them for their help against ISIS. But Trump didn’t want to keep our military there to settle the age old issues between them and the Turks. Now, he’s trying sanctions on Turkey as a way to get the two sides to make a deal. Maybe it will work. We’ll see.
When push comes to shove, Romney will melt like cotton candy in the withering heat of the Trump blast furnace, and he knows it. Low energy Jeb is still in the fetal position and afraid to be noticed. Romney will be just as easily bitch slapped about.
Cannot help but think that if Trump did the opposite and took a hard line against Turkey, to protect the Kurds, Neo (who most often is careful to quote others but not render a definitive opinion on the merits of Trump’s decisions and actions herself) and her followers (who have no such qualms) here would easily flip that coin and be arguing the other side. No doubt if it were a Dem POTUS, oh the howls we’d hear here.
hmonr and Ann made some great points, but, evidently, it amounts to p*ssing into the wind here. I will do the same…
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While the policy choice is very debatable, the real issue is there wasn’t any deliberation, there was no preparation, etc. Further, the US backs out without any real conditions or timeline, nor having won anything in return from Turkey.
What kind of “negotiator” and “leader” does this, and in this way? Should be very troubling, no matter what one may think of Trump otherwise.
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Blind allegiance to everything Trump will/does have a price.
One is loss of credibility and trust for any argument this side wants to make (re-read first paragraph).
“What kind of “negotiator” and “leader” does this, and in this way?”
The kind who every time he proposes something gets endless pushback on everything.
And, just to repeat the old standby, if you think the Kurds are worth protecting then you should pick up a gun and go do it yourself. Or at least lobby Congress to authorize military action to defend them.
Mike
Cannot help but think that if Trump did the opposite
IOW, everyone here has to answer to your imagination. Gee, thanks.
BM:
If I have not argued either side about what Trump has done in this case, how could I flip positions if someone on the left had done it?
I have been quite consistent, actually, in my approach to similar questions, even when a Democrat was in charge (for example, see this I wrote during the Obama administration about Syria and other countries in the area).
Iraq was a different story. By the time Obama withdrew, we had been at war there and lost a lot of people, had a deep commitment and presence there that mounted to nation-building (or an attempt at it), and could have kept things much quieter than they later became if we had kept a relatively small presence there compared to the cost we had already expended there in blood and money. Obama’s withdrawal was something I did have a firm opinion about, and have kept that opinion. And if Trump had done the same thing in Iraq at the same time, I would have felt the same way.
However, I will add that I like Trump’s use of economic pressure on certain countries, and I think that with Turkey, Erdogan knows that the threat of economic pressure remains if he does any funny business with the Kurds after the cease-fire.
Neo, take this article here. Hardly discusses the merits of Romney’s arguments – nor does it really address the headline – his desire to be the leader of the NeverTrumpers. ~80% of it is on completely unrelated matter that seems more of a character hit. Why is that necessary? It is not that folks here are Romney fans to begin with.
The concluding paragraph doesn’t really close on anything about the merits of his argument, but focuses on some semantics. Who is really the “ally” – the country we have a contract with (via NATO) or the group who stepped up with us to fight in Iraq and again in Syria w ISIS? Could it be that both are?
You used to be far better than this.
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Somehow in all the recent articles, pertinent questions get missed or downplayed or brushed aside: How did this decision come about? What was the thinking behind it? How does it fit with an overall ME strategy? Why does it seem that darn few were informed and many found it a surprise and were unprepared? And, is this really a good way (let alone the best way) to deal with the situation?
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Is there not any original thought left here outside of “I don’t know how it will work out” – heck, that can be said of most things we are quick to condemn if it were a Dem POTUS who took the decision, yet we most often seem to be able to find a position.
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A proposal: How about view all new events with the idea that it is still Obama in office – then honestly ask yourself if you would still be making the same case, using the same justifications (or abstaining with an “I don’t know…”), highlighting the same types of quotes?
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Let’s start with hosting G7 at Doral – something not mentioned here, but is now 3 days old. If that were Obama, would it be absent these pages? What would we think about Obama doing this kind of thing?
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Regarding Trump on this issue, is this what we are supposed to expect from “draining the swamp”?
“…the group who stepped up with us to fight in Iraq and again in Syria w ISIS?”
That’s incorrect. “The group” in Iraq is not “the group” selected by Barack Obama to pair up in Syria. “The group” in Syria is the YPG/PKK, a US designated (Marxist) terrorist organization seeking to partition Turkey since 1984. Turkey begged Obama not to do this and was told to be quiet.
“The group” Obama paired up with to retake Iraqi cities from ISIS was primarily PMUs, various Iranian allied Iraqi Shia Militia organizations. The Kurds in Iraq fought ISIS early on attempting to keep ISIS out of northern Iraqi Kurdish regions, but they did not assault the Sunni Iraqi cities ISIS had taken from the pathetic Iraq defense forces (Tikrit, Ramadi, Mosul). So.
The alliance with the PKK/YPG was transactional and temporary from the start. This was made plain to them. They agreed, since they had every reason to fight ISIS in Syria anyway, and would benefit from US training, arming and equipping, to say nothing of the airpower the US brought to the table. Trump merely inherited this shitshow, now stumbling around attempting to extract us from it without doing permanent damage to US-Turkey relations.
BM:
I am honest in saying when I cannot predict or fully understand something, and I have always been that way – so no, I didn’t used to be “better than that.” If you want a definitive answer and prediction about Turkey and the Kurds from the people who are merely repeating something they know nothing about, by all means go to their blogs and their columns for that sort of punditry and see what they have to say.
And the word “ally” is an important one in Romney’s presentation and he means something by it, and my disagreement is not a quibble about semantics. The point – and I believe I made it quite clear – is that Romney completely ignored the fact that Turkey is a NATO member and our ally in that sense and others. He simply doesn’t mention it, which is quite an omission, one that is so important that it makes his remarks almost nonsensical.
This post of mine is not only NOT a “character hit” on Romney, it actually contains a lot of praise about him. Here is a lengthy passage from it that is far from being a character hit [my emphasis]:
For some reason Romney’s “Pierre Delecto” alter ego reminds me of “Carlos Danger.”
Romney can win against 3+ million fake Leftist votes in America? I don’t think so. And it’s not his fault either, much as conservatives like to crab bucket each other…
Getting wrapped around the axle on the word “ally” and its use is a distraction, at best, and avoids dealing with how we got there, and other relevant questions about the decision, the preparation, the strategy (right or wrong).
The overall point is that focus here on this blog, for some time, has been, and is, on things that distract from what would otherwise had been strong criticisms, if it were Obama or some other Dem as POTUS.
Case in point – notice that no article here addressed the issue with Hosting G7 at Doral. Honestly, was there nothing to see there? Were it Obama, no doubt there would have been at least one article here.
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And, on the amount of text devoted to Romney the man and character – well, still irrelevant, and not exactly “a lot of praise” – more about how the Dems treated him unfairly, and how he would have been a “mediocre” POTUS.
IOW, not much to do with correctly or incorrectly classifying Kurds as “allies”.
When Dems do this kind of thing, we often call them out, as this is nothing more than distraction and “signalling” to their audience.
Sadly, used to be better than this.
BM:
I gave you examples of me treating Obama the same way when he did certain things in the Middle East.
And there is no Obama parallel to what the FBI and DOJ have done to Trump (or Hillary Clinton parallel, for that matter). Quite the opposite. It is truly unprecedented and should be alarming even to Trump haters, although of course it is not.
I was never “better” than this. My standards have always been the same. That’s why I was able to give Trump a chance when he became president, because despite my huge reservations and fears I was willing to do that.
So if you liked my writing in the past and not now, my guess is it’s because you used to agree with me more.