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Home » So, why have the Democratic leaders defended the Gang of Four?

So, why have the Democratic leaders defended the Gang of Four?

The New Neo Posted on by

They (we’re primarily talking about Pelosi here, but I doubt she was alone in her decision) didn’t have to do it. After all, they started out either ignoring them or belittling them.

But they chose to defend them in response to Trump. Why?

Although Pelosi had earlier pointed out that the Four were only four votes, she had to already have been well aware of how many members of the House were in solidarity with them. It doesn’t seem to have been a majority, as Wednesday’s “impeach Trump” vote failure amply demonstrates. So, what gives?

I’ve heard people say in explanation, “Bernie Sanders changed the party.” No he didn’t. He did well in 2016, much better than expected, but he didn’t change anything except perceptions. What he did do was to move the Overton Window way to the left, and the sky didn’t fall. So it became possible for a candidate to voice leftist beliefs and think that he/she still had a chance of support on a national level.

If Sanders had actually run in the general election of 2016 instead of Hillary, how would he have done? No one knows, although he polled quite well (so did she). It’s too late now for him to win the nomination in 2020, because he’s got fresher leftist competition, but the party is very afraid of losing his enormous bloc of leftist supporters—and that of AOC and the Four—by not defending the Four.

But still, Pelosi’s original calculus about this was different. Not too long ago she didn’t seem to think it was necessary to defend them much, and she seemed to believe that marginalizing them would be good. She must have known (or believed) that siding with the Four might cost the eventual Democratic nominee (and those Democrats running for Congressional seats) dearly in the general. A great many Democratic voters have gotten way more leftist than the general public seems to be ready to tolerate yet, despite decades of the Gramscian march that has helped swell the ranks of the left immeasurably, particularly among young people, so Pelosi knew a candidate must beware of appearing too leftist.

So, what’s going on? One thing I noticed is that a possible turning point occurred when AOC played the race card against Pelosi herself, saying, “the persistent singling out … it got to a point where it was just outright disrespectful … the explicit singling out of newly elected women of color.”

The initial reaction was for many fellow-Democrats to jump to Pelosi’s defense. Why, the very idea of using racism accusations as a tool like that! Shocking! Of course, it’s the favored tool against the right and Democrats have no problem with it when it’s used that way. But against Pelosi? Not done, except by the Four.

Initially it seemed that Pelosi had won that round, too. But it may nevertheless have struck some sort of fear in her (at least, that’s my theory), because it told her that the Four were going to strike back with every weapon at their disposal rather than give in. Pelosi well knows the potency of the race card with the Democratic voters; there is probably no worse charge. So she was wary.

Then, when Trump singled out the Four (without naming them, but he certainly was talking about at least one of them, Ilhan Omar), and did it in terms the left wanted to cast as irredeemably and vilely racist, Pelosi almost had to defend them or risk a racist accusation herself, and risk losing the votes of the racial groups on which the Democrats now depend for victory.

Pelosi may well end up tacking back and forth between supporting the Four and keeping them in check, for the rest of the 2020 election cycle.

[ADDENDUM: In addition, some House members from deep blue districts are probably afraid of being perceived as insufficiently leftist, and of being primaried by younger and more telegenic Justice Democrats. So they may desert Pelosi, as well. Is even Pelosi immune, in her own district, if she decides to run for re-election?]

Comments

So, why <i>have</i> the Democratic leaders defended the Gang of Four? — 106 Comments

  1. Muslim Rep. Rashida Tlaib’s father found himself in a difficult spot to do the right thing. Harbi Elabed, who worked for the Ford Motor Company in Detroit, does not share his daughter’s radicalized leftist agenda. “She lied big time to get elected,” said the 61-year-old.

  3. It’s hard to pinpoint when Talib became radicalized. It is clear George Soros is deeply invested in Tlaib going back to 2016 when she was making her big run to become a U.S. Congresswoman. Tlaib was paid $139,873 by Soros’s group in 2016, tax forms show. Between 2016 and 2017, Tlaib received a total of $225,180 directly from Soros.

  4. Does anyone imagine (on speculation alone, of course) that squirrelled away somewhere in the dark recesses of Pelosi’s reptilian brain lurks a tiny vestige of recognition of political prudence? That, in accord with said (solely hypothetical) political prudence, she realizes the Squadsters are headed for a tumbled destruction wholly of their own making; that therefore she can lay them all the rope they’ll take and leave them to it?

    Just speculation though, for who could possibly believe such a fantastic tale, really?

  5. artfldgr:

    They all may stand for the same thing, but Pelosi stands for hiding it in order to get elected, and the Four stand for making their leftism far more clear.

  6. Pelosi, Schumer and the rest of the establishment dems are caught in the proverbial; “between a rock and a hard place”. They know that alienating the young activist left is political suicide and deeply sense that openly going along with leftist extremism is certain to result in a landslide for Trump.

    But in their silence the democrat party already owns; open non-existent borders, sanctuary cities that release hardened criminals, entitlements for illegal immigrants, restricting guns to criminals & the organs of the State, judicial activism that makes laws, the unaccountable Administrative State, abandonment of Israel, the America-hating United Nations, Venezuelan/Cuban socialism, universal lowest denominator health care, radical environmentalism, forced income equality versus equality of opportunity, identity politics, radical gender ideology, intersectionality, white masculinity declared to be toxic, multiculturalism for all but white cultures, white privilege as the source of all sins, support for matriarchy, reparations without limit, one way cultural appropriation, abortion up to birth and most monstrous of all… INFANTICIDE.

    I imagine that establishment dems tell themselves that if Trump is reelected, they can then point to the now open extremist positions as the reason why they lost and sweep the radicals out of office.

    Not going to happen. The FOUR, the media and the activist left are going to scream that the Pelosi/Schumer wing flubbed it by not going for Trump’s jugular and, no amount of factual rebuttal will make the slightest impact upon them. Fanatics never reexamine their premises because their entire identity is wrapped up in their fanaticism. The Four demonstrate that every day.

    When Pelosi defended the Four, the reaction from the activist left was either silence or scorn. Every candidate raising their hand when asked who supports healthcare for illegals (paid for by US citizens) reveals wherein the momentum lies on the left.

    They are committed to their great cause, the tossing of the American Republic into history’s ash heap.

  7. Can you think of an example where Democrats turned on a fellow Democrat when the primary attack came from Republicans? They’ll knife each other in internal disputes, but will close ranks against outside attack. Remember that AOC’s “threat” to other Democrats is that her supporters will primary them, not that she will vote against their legislation.

    It seems to me that the Democratic party is much better at staying and voting together, than the Republicans are. Consider the 4 liberal members of the Supreme Court. If the case is at all important to the greater Democrat culture, they always vote together. It’s always the Republican members who break ranks.

    It’s not like this is a bad thing. Voting discipline is extremely important to a modern political party. It’s actually something that the Republicans would do better to emulate.

  8. “Then, when Trump singled out the Four (without naming them, but he certainly was talking about at least one of them, Ilhan Omar), and did it in terms the left wanted to cast as irredeemably and vilely racist, Pelosi almost had to defend them or risk a racist accusation herself, and risk losing the votes of the racial groups on which the Democrats now depend for victory.”

    This is exactly the kind of thing that I think Trump is planning on when he does his “stupid” tweets. It is almost as if he planned for Pelosi to come to their defense and that causes her to look like she agrees with their leftism. This will cause the Democrats to loose more middle-of-the-road voters.

    Way to go Donald!

  9. I believe GB is correct.
    The Democratic Party has become the new Bolshevik Party. Pelosi, Schumer, the Gang of Four and the rest of the Democrats are totalitarian in intent. The only difference is in the color of the gloves or hijabs or lipstick (see AOC!) they wear. They have the misundereducated millenial vote, but I doubt that will suffice, thank goodness.

    It is fascinating, though, on another tack, to see that brown aka ‘black’ has become the skin color of superiority, while more black babies are aborted than are born now. Blacks are 22% of the American population but are featured in about 50% of the TV commercials I see when I see TV. They are portrayed as happy nuclear families, usually. And I do see the occasional black/white couple also so portrayed. Clearly the sponsors have concluded in which direction America is headed and are out in front. Schwartz ist die Neue Weiss!!

  10. Right neo
    Pelosi realizes what the people she is tricking will not like and she is old enough to remember the images of Mussolini and ladies

    Your point was covered by me
    And victor Davis Hansen

    We remember the moderate Republican of the French revolution… the more radical part basically took over because they were too slow…too reserved… their smaller but more radical took over

    You forget to weed off the hucksters that pretend socialism but never thought the revolution would happen..

    Each are covered in the chatechism. .

    The moderates aided their radical then were destroyed

    Nancy and others fantasize about what their part is
    And they do not get they are the red Latvian rifle men… they are the liberals of weimar that set the stage… they are the gerondists who were destroyed by their jacobins

    I can give you another half dozen…

    The left soles the problem of being careful who you step on, on the way up… they kill, or neutralize…

    And i would suggest looking at the fund’s from soros…

    Oh is old ex Soviet experts know the fantasy the leftists believe and is a lie… thru think thru will be heroes… but those using the user’s, never trust traitors, even a traitor in their favor..

    It’s their nature to betray when unhappy

  11. I like Neo’s analysis, but see it slightly differently.

    The Speakership can be a precarious position. And congressional politics is a politics of negatives. No one really cares what their accomplishments are (even if we should). It is their gaffs that take them out. So everyone functions on the fear of the negative.

    Pelosi was initially saying that she has more power than the Odd Squad and the congressional Dems don’t have to fear them. But perception is reality, so if a large chunk of Dems do fear the Odd Squad, then Pelosi is in trouble.

    The Republican party was founded (in Lincoln’s time) and formed out of the remnants of the Whigs and the those Dems who would not tolerate the racism in the Democrat party. While probably no one knows this, Dems attacking Dems as racist is still an especially hot button. I used to read the blogger Robin of Berkeley who claimed that she became a “changer” precisely because Obama’s people attacked Hillary as a racist in the 2008 cycle.

    At this point in our political history, the Dems must do everything in their power to maintain the tacit unthinking assumption amongst the citizenry, that Democrats are relentlessly anti-racist and Republicans are soft on racism. I’m sure they are cognizant that the whole racism charge could degenerate into the public seeing it as crass opportunism and manipulation, but the MSM and social media censorship will prevent that.

  12. Pelosi must be happy today about having just delivered the Democrats a 2020 advantage by passing the Raise the Wage bill in the House, since a higher minimum wage has wide appeal across the board among voters.

  13. Blacks are 22% of the American population but are featured in about 50% of the TV commercials I see when I see TV.

    Cicero: The number I usually see is 12-14% blacks. Of course that only strengthens your point.

  14. No way Pelosi can waffle back in forth on The Squad. Essentially Pelosi, Schumer, Biden, Obama, et al are really in the Dust Bin of History, having been overtaken by the Radical Left. Try to imagine if you can just what the RL will be saying in say Sept, 2020. Boggles the mind.

  15. Although the demographic argument for the bold new future of the Democrats beginning with Obama let them down, Democrats have not given up the dream. They believe it’s a matter of time before the increasing numbers of millienials and Hispanics and immigrants voting Democrat will overwhelm white Republicans.

    They may well be right, especially if immigration stays so high. So defending the Squad makes sense in the medium-to-long-term, even if not for 2020.

    I have seen commentary that some party leaders have already written off 2020 to Trump.

  16. What is it that prevents you all from seeing what 68% of Americans saw when they called Trump’s tweets “offensive” in a USA Today poll? It’s a slam dunk for Pelosi. No deep thinking needed. No 3-D chess required. The Squad was in the process of hitting Pelosi with race cards and it was a beautiful thing to watch right up until Trump tees it up perfectly for her to throw a deck of race cards back at him.

    I love his stance on the economy, immigration and court appointments. You can keep trying to rationalize and parse his what-flies-through-his-brain-at-every-perceived-slight tweets at weird hours of the day and night but it’s not working with folks outside his base.

  17. What is it that prevents you all from seeing what 68% of Americans saw when they called Trump’s tweets “offensive” in a USA Today poll?

    DonKeyoti: However some polls show Trump’s numbers going up in this period.

    Everyone knows Trump can be offensive. He won 2016 in spite of it. The real question you raise is whether Trump’s tweets were offensive enough to cause people to vote against him in large enough numbers for him to lose.

    Speaking for myself, I no longer believe Trump’s tweets are as carelessly impulsive as you paint.

  18. DonKeyoti: Here’s an excerpt from a recent Tom Friedman column:

    I’m struck at how many people have come up to me recently and said, “Trump’s going to get re-elected, isn’t he?” And in each case, when I drilled down to ask why, I bumped into the Democratic presidential debates in June. I think a lot of Americans were shocked by some of the things they heard there. I was.

    So if Trump emphasizes Democrats’ radicalism — and the Squad are about the most radical — it is likely a great way to peel away votes from Democrats.

    I think it will work. My bet is we are looking forward to another 1972 rejection of Democratic radicalism. Maybe not the full boat blowout suffered by McGovern’s forces, but enough to keep Trump in the White House, a Rep Senate and a weaker Dem House.

  19. the Raise the Wage bill in the House, since a higher minimum wage has wide appeal across the board among voters.

    yeah… all those legal immigrants trying to start businesses and now cant, they LOVE it…

  20. DonKeyoti What is it that prevents you all from seeing what 68% of Americans saw when they called Trump’s tweets “offensive” in a USA Today poll?

    I got news for you, Don, I find many of Trump’s tweets “offensive.” Most of the people here find many of Trump’s tweets “offensive.” But his accomplishments far, far, outweigh his temper-tantrum tweets. We Normals are so damn tired of the glib, articulate elites who accomplish nothing, or make things worse, that we’re more than willing to put up with a loudmouth asshole who loves this country, wants to make it better, and in spite of the scorched-earth opposition of the Democrats, the MSM, Antifa, the NeverTrumpers, the communists in control of our educational system, etc., etc., etc., is doing a pretty good job of it.

    And say hello to Sancho for me, will you?

  21. But they did have to defend them against Orange Hitler and his Fascist supporters. It was just like a Nazi rally OMG. And you can bet if they don’t impeach him soon those concentration camps at the border won’t be the only ones. Oh, no. And the violence that is coming….ok, I know it’s been falsely predicted for years and years but you can bet it’s coming now. Oh, the children.

  22. Cui Buono

    Wed, 08/22/2018

    The New York Times writes that she was able to defeat her opponent, who greatly outspent her, due to her online presence. In an interview with progressive digital media outlet “The Young Turks,” a member of a Soros-funded network of far-left publications called The Media Consortium, Ocasio-Cortez also admits that their coverage helped her win.

    Members linked to Soros-funded digital media asked Ocasio-Cortez, a former organizer for Bernie Sanders’s presidential campaign, to run for office — guaranteeing favorable coverage by a media network that reaches almost 300 million people monthly.

    One member of the Soros-funded media, Cenk Uygur, also founded one of the two political groups responsible for asking Ocasio-Cortez to run, Justice Democrats — whose goal is to get Sanders-like politicians elected to Congress.

    Incumbent Joseph Crowley — whose footprint in the Democratic establishment led to speculation that he would succeed Nancy Pelosi as Democratic leader of the House — greatly outspent Ocasio-Cortez.

    However, her strong online presence — thanks to the coverage of the Soros-linked digital media — she was able to gain traction and defeat Crowley in the primary June 26. She is expected to win New York’s 14th congressional district handedly, given the district’s Democratic history.

    After Ocasio-Cortez’s website, Ocasio2018.com, was first registered May 3, 2017, it redirected to Ocasio-Cortez’s now-deleted page on BrandNewCongress.Org, according to an Internet archive captured June 29, 2017.

    Brand New Congress is another organization, just like Justice Democrats, that aims to get socialists elected to Congress in the 2018 mid-terms. It has close ties to Justice Democrats.

    So this is more than just a fight, its a fight to see who gets Nans spot..

    Justice Democrats is an American progressive political action committee[3][4] founded on January 23, 2017, by Kyle Kulinski of Secular Talk, Cenk Uygur of The Young Turks, and former leadership from the 2016 Bernie Sanders presidential campaign. Kulinski and Uygur are no longer affiliated with the group, but remain active supporters. Alexandra Rojas became executive director of the organization in May 2018. The organization formed as a result of the 2016 United States presidential election and has a stated goal of reforming the Democratic Party by running “a unified campaign to replace every corporate-backed member of Congress” and rebuilding the Democratic Party from “scratch” starting in the 2018 congressional midterm elections.

    [snip]

    In the 2018 elections, 26 of the 79 candidates endorsed by Justice Democrats won their respective primary elections.

    Seven of these candidates won in the general election: Raúl Grijalva, Ro Khanna, Ayanna Pressley, Rashida Tlaib, Ilhan Omar, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and Pramila Jayapal. Districts won ranged from D+13 to D+34 on the Cook PVI, indicative of a majority Democratic voting population. No swing districts were won.

    So your not paying attention that an internal democrat coupe is going on…
    The guy Alexandria beat was supposed to replace Nancy, but now, who will?

    pass the popcorn…

  24. Huxley and Saunders, appreciate the thoughtful replies. Trump has a lot going for him as the Dems keep spouting the Socialist agenda. To borrow from my previous post, it tees up perfectly…this time for him. For him to win, he must be liked. Not by his base they don’t really care what he says because they love the red meat. He must appeal to those who are not EverTrumpers who by every measure didn’t like the Squad tweets. Yes his numbers are up. All the way up to 48%. So the majority he needs don’t like him…yet. He got 70,000 voters in 5 midwestern counties to win Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. Will those same folks like him enough in 2020 in spite of his attacks? I say he is playing impulsively and narcissistically with matches this time.

  25. sdferr on July 19, 2019 at 8:24 pm said:
    “USA Today poll”
    Heh. Yeah, no one sane is gonna give that a side-eye.

    Sdferr. Show me any poll where he is winning the argument.

  26. I don’t traffic in polls, Don. Don’t trust a one of them owing to extreme uncertainty as to our knowledge of human cognition. Pollsters — and I believe — those who put their trust in them, don’t know what the heck they’re talking about.

  27. The minimum wage bill has some features that Democrats/socialists love
    *) appeals to their base – makes Living Wage jobs which no business owner can afford to staff for the skill/value provided
    *) opposition to it is cruel and heartless (The Rich)
    *) it will tank the entry level low skill jobs and possibly slow the economy
    *) good for Silicon valley (automation/robotics, = more money for Dem. politicians
    *) slowdown in the economy hurts Trump and all evil Republicans.

  28. Will those same folks like him enough in 2020 in spite of his attacks?

    DonKeyoti: I don’t see why not. He was tweeting like this back in 2016 and he still got elected. Why not in 2020? Besides now he has a full term as POTUS under his belt with genuine accomplishments and the economy is much better than 2016. It’s hard to defeat an incumbent president.

    I didn’t vote for Trump before but I will next year.

  29. DonKeyoti ,

    What prevents you from seeing the anti-semitism in Omar’s tweets and the dislike for freedom?

  30. Trump’s fighting to keep his promises, his accomplishments and the greatly improved economy is why he would be reelected even if the democrats fielded a viable candidate. The radicalism of their positions makes it likely that the 2020 election will provide him with a mandate, if not a landslide.

  31. Baklava, of course I see it and think she is despicable. There is nothing I like about her politics. I think she has lied about her marriages. My positions have nothing to do with AOC, Talhib, Omar or Pressley’s socialist anti-American view which vehemently oppose It’s all about Trump inserting himself ineptly in every little squabble. He’s the leader of the free world for god’s sake. What’s he doing down in the gutter with these four losers?

  32. So Don, are “these four losers” a winning proposition for the Democrats? And if not, doesn’t it make sense to see to it that they’re elevated to be the face of the Democrats’ party? Maybe that’s precisely what he’s doing. Y’know, doing politics. The free world, in the meantime, perhaps needs to relearn how to take responsibility and care of itself without leaning on the US quite so often. Or, no?

  33. DonKeyoti: I don’t see why not. He was tweeting like this back in 2016 and he still got elected. Why not in 2020?

    Huxley, just 70,000 votes in 5 counties. 70,000! Pennsylvania already has moved away from him. I’m hoping the Dem/socialists keep opening their mouths. Now if he will just stay out of their way so they keep talking about policies main stream America will not accept.

  34. So Don, are “these four losers” a winning proposition for the Democrats?

    Sdferr, no they are not but the Squad was elevated to unmerited prominence and the MSM and Dem leadership had their panties in a wad about how they now were eating their own. In a heartbeat the narrative changed to Trump’s go home tweets as racist. I don’t think that’s what he meant for a minute but off we go down this rat hole. You can try to put lipstick on this pig but it’s not working.

  35. So you say Don, repeating your asserted line. I just don’t think we know yet. And among the likely outcomes is the distinct possibility that it’s working just fine. Well see. As will Pres. Trump. These are fast moving targets, as Wretchard pointed out yesterday. Could be there’s a new sort of game on, one nobody really knows from experience.

  36. Sdferr, you maybe right and I hope you are. No one, not even you can be sure enough next time Trump is sitting on his bed (being kind here as another place comes to mind) with his phone in his hand and we have to wait for Rush to tell us what we think about Trump’s latest chess move.

  37. Huxley, just 70,000 votes in 5 counties. 70,000! Pennsylvania already has moved away from him.

    DonKeyoti: Hillary led Trump throughout the campaign in Pennsylvania by 1-8 points.

    I don’t know worry much about polls this far out.

  38. Unfortunately I haven’t listened to Rush lately (not that I haven’t heretofore, just not for a few months past) so I’d be shit out of luck were I to depend on his views for information.

    As to Trump’s choices? I haven’t got a clue how he goes about thinking through the permutations. Thus far, it has seemed nothing short of uncanny how adept he’s been (in my view) . . . either crazy lucky or preternaturally sly. (Shrug) Perhaps he knows himself better than people want to give him credit for? Or what else?

  39. Thus far, it has seemed nothing short of uncanny how adept he’s been (in my view) . . . either crazy lucky or preternaturally sly.

    Interesting. You touched on a view that gives some a queasy feeling about his leadership. Churchill was unpredictable (tactically) but a steady leader. Sorry, he gives lots of folks that what will he do next vibe which is not a good trait.

  40. Sorry, he gives lots of folks that what will he do next vibe which is not a good trait.

    Could also be that most of those getting that vibe are women. From three days ago — “Trump campaign launches effort to sway women voters”:

    Suburban women in congressional districts like the one the Trump campaign visited on Tuesday played a key role in ushering in a Democratic wave of victories in U.S. House of Representatives races in the 2018 congressional elections, robbing Republicans of their majority and delivering a rebuke of Trump.

    In Pennsylvania, Democrats won nine congressional seats, the same amount as Republicans, who held a 13-5 advantage before the elections.

    According to the Reuters/Ipsos 2018 Election Day poll, 56% of suburban women voters in Pennsylvania disapproved of Trump’s handling of the country, with 40% saying they approved.

  41. Isn’t is so tiresome when those who consider themselves non-leftist Tone Police for the leftists?

  42. Could also be that most of those getting that vibe are women.

    And Ann, we are celebrating the fact that SDNY will not be indicting anyone else in the Stormy Daniels saga. How far we have come.

  43. “We Normals are so damn tired of the glib, articulate elites who accomplish nothing, or make things worse, that we’re more than willing to put up with a loudmouth asshole who loves this country”

    That is so right. I roll my eyes at Trump sometimes too but I just got so sick and tired of having smoke blown up my butt by the MFM and the “dignified” smooth-talking hustlers like Obama.

  44. Have Ann and manju ever been seen in the same place at the same time? Just wondering.

  45. I just do not get into identity politics Donkeyoti.

    We are given a binary choice in situations.

    There was no way I was going to vote Hillary.
    There is no way I can support anyone who opposed Kavanaugh
    There is no way I can muster enough outrage after Democrats made saints like Mitt Romney into a racist sexist whatever.
    There is no way I can get into this identity politics gutter.

    I’m simply grabbing the popcorn and watching the toilet flush that you all flushed.

    Get on board with actual common sense freedom loving national security and a stick to ideas that keep America safe and prosperous and help conservatives shrink government. Stop with the identity politics that you all created 5 decades ago. Calling every name in the book for anyone with an R.

  46. BTW, I actually wish 2020 was filled with another candidate besides Trump. I didn’t want Trump to win the primaries in 2016 either.

    But when you are given a binary choice I’ll tell you what…. I’ll never vote to saddle an extra 22 trillion on my daughter’s future – post modernism – or more men competing against them in karate – or whatever other silliness that insane leftists want to foist on the country like Omar and other America haters.

    He has got the lack of filters and maybe that is what we needed against the lack of filter Democrats….

  48. Baklava and FOAF I get the sentiment. I really do. I’m not sure if we created Trump or he created us. It’s safe to say that the Libs will have their Trump at some point. Based upon the way things feel today, I don’t think we’re going to like it much. I guess that’s the reason I don’t get as much joy out of watching him poke his finger in people’s eye as others do.

  49. Hold people accountable? Right. Not happening.

    Right. No ones going to jail. As far as I know, the FBI hasn’t even opened an investigation. Ditto for the coup against Trump (unless you include Barr’s little “review”). Ditto for Omar marrying her brother.

    I don’t know how you tolerate this level of incompetence from the Trump Administration. You whine about the Liberal MSM not investigating your errrr totally reasonable and disinterested allegations, but ignore the Elephant in the room doing nothing, other than to blandly accept that he’s doing nothing…as usual.

  50. More competent than the uncaring Obama.

    Let’s keep doing identity politics.

    Not getting anywhere…

    Get back to issues Manju and Don

  51. Let’s tackle the invasion. My daughters and your kids deserve us fighting for our country. A few ugly words will be said in the meantime so buckle up and fight with us

  52. My oh, my.. there is only the imaginary avante guard. The gang are destoyerers. Cheer them on.let millions of idiots blossom.

  54. “the coup against Trump”

    From manju? Bwhahahahaha, you are too funny manju. But don’t give up your sad sack minwage day job that barely keeps you in beefaroni for standup comedy.

  55. “I’m not sure if we created Trump or he created us”

    *I’m* sure that he is responding to sentiments that have been out there a *long* time. One election night the Presidency had been decided and the networks were in the post-mortem phase. The moderator went around the table and asked the correspondents what they had learned covering the election. One of them said,

    “The people in the middle of the country are really angry about the way they are portrayed in the media”.

    It took me a while to put this together with Trump but when I did it did an awful lot to clarify the Trump phenomenon for me.

    The election? No, not 2016. This exchange took place after GW Bush defeated Kerry in 2004. This has been festering for decades.

  56. “Get back to issues Manju”

    Back? When was he ever on them except as a paid troll?

  57. Talk of Pennsylvania and the 70K votes, and polling numbers and wooing women voters is all well and good, I guess. But largely a waste of time.

    It presupposes that the 2020 election isn’t rigged.

    Trump’s victory in ‘16 was questioned from the beginning. And the undermining operation, or at least the foundation for that operation, started quite early too.

    Given the Dossier, and the Mueller Investigation, the paid/volunteer Trolls (Hey Manju,) and the constant MSM information carpet bombing campaign against Deplorable America, we would be naive in the extreme to take a fair election for granted in 2020. How many states and counties in Blue areas have already put plans/“regulations” in motion to insure that their people count the votes, or stack the ballots, or hide the necessary ballots in storage units/car trunks so they may be conveniently found after the usual Leftist calls for recounts. Ask yourself: How many Conservative/GOP presidential wins haven’t been contested in some way since 2000?

    My prediction:

    People talking about whether he can win are going to look back to POTUS Trump’s first term and see none of the polls mattered. Not because they’re untrustworthy (though they are) but because the lefties were busy making sure that only their people could win.

    This is the natural, logical evolution of their “game”.

    2020/2021 are going to be ugly in a way we haven’t seen in decades. Possibly ever.

    Trump’s tweets don’t matter in the scheme of things. No one who hates him already is going to be swayed (Hi Ann!). The people who love him expect it. And all those people will vote the way they vote regardless. And all the while, the lefties with brains (like Soros and his ilk) didn’t waste their time screaming. They were were working on battlefield prep. As Kurt Schlicter has said: “These people hate us and they want to destroy us.”

    Plan accordingly and assume that the enemy is taking steps to ensure their win. History is full of examples: Leftists have never, ever, ‘fought’ fair.

  58. More competent than the uncaring Obama.

    Let’s keep doing identity politics.

    Not getting anywhere…

    Get back to issues Manju and Don

    It would be nice Baklava to get back to the issues and avoid identity politics. However, Trump sets the tone for what is talked about or attacked by the MSM. He’s simply not an issue guy when he takes out his phone to poke at those he perceives that slight him. From Hollywood types, talk show hosts, the mayor of London, he makes it personal. He raises these lowlifes to international prominence and for what reason? What is America to do? I’m just watching the show like everyone else but he just can’t let anything go. I hear it all the time. “I like Trump; he fights.” We get what we ask for.

  60. Here is an excellent analysis from a few years ago, that hits all the high points, and explains why we, here in the U.S., are at the current state we are of cultural and ideological warfare.

    See “Gramscian Damage” at http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=260

  61. it’s not working with folks outside his base.

    Meaning you. Do you have evidence that you are not in a small minority ?

  62. What we asked for: get out of the Paris Accords, don’t play the warming hoax game (done); get out of JCPOA, don’t allow Iran to get nuclear weapons with which to blackmail the world (done); treat allies as allies and adversaries as adversaries, stop stabbing Israel in the back (done); loose the economy, cut the choking regs (done); grow jobs, help people prosper (done); get Europe to start pulling its load (done); make new alliances with those who seek to emulate US success like Brazil does (done); quit coddling socialist assholes like the Castros, Chavezes, Maduros and Ortegas (done); stop treating executive power as if it has no boundaries (done); don’t promote antiAmerican jerks in government (done) . . . this list of items is by no means exhaustive. Not does the administration’s current successes include efforts on potentially more fundamental and salient issues, like spending and debt reduction, an utter end to “continuing resolution expenditure”, or wholesale reversing the welfare/entitlement state.

    But damn . . .

    Maybe ignore the flitting laser pointer for a bit.

  64. it’s not working with folks outside his base.

    Meaning you. Do you have evidence that you are not in a small minority ?

    I could be Mike, I really don’t know but it doesn’t feel that way with all I read and listen to. Look what happened in the Mid Term elections. It’s not the end-all but it tells us something. Many of those who are not following the day to day as you and I do, don’t like the guy. The didn’t like Obama much, thought Bush II was okay but not smart. They are not Libs or Conservative in the sense you and I would define them. They have tuned out (at least until 2020) but we will see.

  65. Good list sdferr. Now just call the White House and tell him to turn off his laser pointer.

  66. I wouldn’t presume to know the political-electoral purposes of the thing: I do presume President Trump (did we notice he actually did win election?) knows far better than I what serves his political interests come Nov. ’20.

  67. Look what happened in the Mid Term elections. It’s not the end-all but it tells us something.

    The Dims got clever, the way Rahm Emmanuel got clever in 2006, and recruited moderate Democrats to run. Do you remember what happened to them in 2010 ?
    Plus ballot harvesting was used to oust 5 GOP Congress members in Orange County, CA. It was also used in Phoenix to beat McSally. In all those cases, the Republican was well ahead on election day and for several days after. “Late votes” kept appearing until the desired result was accomplished.
    I am concerned about cheating next year. Voting by mail is an invitation to fraud.

  68. Look what happened in the Mid Term elections. It’s not the end-all but it tells us something.

    Mid-terms are usually bad news for the incumbent president. Obama got “shellacked” much worse than Trump in 2010. Still re-elected in 2012.

    Furthermore, 2018 was during the peak of the Collusion Delusion that Trump was about to be Watergated out of office.

    I don’t think the 2018 mid-terms tell us much about 2020 that way.

    The Nixon parallels are strong. Nixon barely beat Humphrey in 1968. Nixon was a capable executive but he was loathed by Democrats and not even liked that well by Republicans, though he had the Silent Majority in his pocket. Yet when Democrats went radical against Nixon in 1972, they were annihilated.

    Of course, Nixon was done in by Watergate, which was a murkier business than currently understood, but nonetheless Nixon truly had a hand in obstruction. Democrats were eager to play out the Watergate scenario again, but unfortunately for them Trump wasn’t guilty. Sad.

  70. Don,
    That laser pointer worked.
    The mealy mouthed milk toasts had no counter for the no filter Democrats.

    Funny you don’t mind the no filter Democrats.

    I don’t like either but I’ll discuss solutions while you get distracted like a cat

  73. Yeah, good points Huxley and Mike K about Mid Term elections being tough on the incumbent. Trump though did go out of his way to make it a referendum on himself. That well known bravado kicked in as he predicted a Republican landslide in the House. But your points are valid nonetheless.

    Interesting times. Our Conservative friends have divided into EverTrumpers and those who like his policies but not the character of the man. In the past, we could freely discuss the shortcomings of any Republican but not anymore. You are either for him or you’re a RINO.

  74. You are free to discuss – it doesn’t matter or help. We all know what we got.

    Yes, everyone freely tore apart the racist John McCain, Mitt Romney, George Bush, etc. Finally we have somebody without a filter also (like the Democrats).

    I don’t like it. It doesn’t make me an ever Trumper. It is life. It is real. Every family has a hierarchy and guess what you can focus on the identities or focus on the solutions. DonKeyoti has no solutions. Only utopia thinking.

  75. DonKeyoti said: “Our Conservative friends have divided into EverTrumpers and those who like his policies but not the character of the man.”

    Oh, come now. There are plenty of NeverTrumpers who don’t like his policies either. They don’t like anything he does.

    DonKeyoti said: “In the past, we could freely discuss the shortcomings of any Republican but not anymore. You are either for him or you’re a RINO.”

    What a self-serving little distinction you have constructed here. Or are you just deceiving yourself too?

  77. In the past, we could freely discuss the shortcomings of any Republican but not anymore. You are either for him or you’re a RINO.

    DonKeyoti: I feel free to discuss Trump’s shortcomings here, there and almost everywhere. Seems to happen plenty in this blog, starting with neo.

  78. Recently I learned that the Twitter bluebird logo is a tribute to Larry Bird, which makes me sad. If there’s a man who can stand for the whole country, from white to black, from flyover country to the ghetto, it’s Larry Joe.

    If I were to appoint someone to improve race relations it would be Bird, though he would be too smart to accept.
    ______________________
    Hello, Edit function! Good to see you again.

  79. I learned that too Huxley. But you know darn well what would happen if Larry declared himself a Republican.

  82. Rabbit, sounds like you’ve confused EverTrumpers with NeverTrumpers. None of our friends, including me, are NeverTrumpers. For you and others, it seems easy for you to separate character issues from the policy. As long as he keeps sticking it to the Libs, you ignore the rest. At what point if any would you ever call him on it? Whose lifeboat would I get in if I would ever have such a choice? Charles Krauthammer’s or Trump’s? Reagan’s or Trump’s? I’m with the two former lost souls. I obviously don’t have such a choice but it does create a genuine quandary as he’s our guy and he’s not making me proud. Sorry, if it makes you stomp your feet up and down but it’s genuine and I know there are a lot of people who think the same. I will never vote for any Democrat. Period. Don’t know what I will do in 2020.

  83. Baklava :But my guess is Don and Man likes Michelle even with her racist statements:

    Where do you get off accusing me of that? You are doing precisely what I described. Swear loyalty or I brand you a RINO/NeverTrumper/LIbtard or whatever. It’s not working…just so you know.

  84. Because you set yourself up as the arbiter. The high and mighty chooses his words and you’ve chosen yours.

    Speak about the issues and stop with the identity politics because you are exposed.

  85. “Because you set yourself up as the arbiter.”

    Sounds like I’ve rented space in your head.

    “The high and mighty chooses his words and you’ve chosen yours.”

    Assumes facts not in evidence.

    “Speak about the issues and stop with the identity politics because you are exposed.”

    Attempt to control speech. Saul Alinsky tactic. Not a good look for you.

  86. No – you’ve written here focusing against one person. The binary nature of this shows your position.

    Your priorities can be determined by what you write.

    Your choice to focus on identity not issues and solutions. My choice not to talk to those who focus on identity politics. Later.

  87. DonKeyhoti:

    Our very own concern troll. How virtuous he is. We are truly blessed, or not so much.

  88. January 24, 2016. Donald Trump: ‘I could shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any voters.’ Are we really at this point? Attempting to silence those that are not on this he can say anything he wants train is disturbing. We could sit down and agree on everything else on the (his?) conservative agenda, save for his character flaws which you all know he has. And you give no weight to any of it? It does not give you just the slightest pause? Not buying it.

  90. DonKeyhoti:

    How disconcerting that you have to go back to 2016. Very concerned indeed. No one else noticed that comment by Donald Trump at the time? Nope, many here did, but somehow President Trump didn’t turn out to be what you fear he is. So sad for you to be stuck in 2016.

    But Hillary is still not the POTUS, and we have a few other issues in the nation such as Antifa, Silicon Valley corporations and the suppression of speech; the Foul Four (Suicide Sauad), etc.

    Do you have any other shiny objects to fixate on?

  91. DonKeyhoti:

    When Trump said that, the context had absolutely nothing to do with silencing anyone. He certainly wasn’t speaking of silencing anyone (see this for the video of his words, which were obviously hyperbole about how loyal his supporters are to him).

    Some of these Trump loyalists indeed excuse anything he does (and probably would indeed like Trump critics to shut up). But plenty of people who support Trump certainly aren’t on that particular trip. They see his flaws and criticize what he does when they see things they don’t like. However, they also see the alternatives to him as much much worse. Therefore they stick with him.

    In addition, they see that Trump’s behavior as president has been far better than his behavior as candidate led them to believe it would be. So that’s quite heartening to them.

  92. Is even Pelosi immune, in her own district, if she decides to run for re-election?

    The fellow who ran against Pelosi in the primary in 2018 is Shahid Buttar, a San Francisco attorney. He’s running again in 2020. She beat him by 60 percentage points in 2018, though. Article here about it.

  93. I never bought into trump, the 4 dimensional chess player bit. But he pulled of a masterpiece, against one of the most successful part leaders in years. Before you start flaming, here me out. Its pretty obvious trump was painting the Dem’s as the party of four, and it must have been working because Nancy felt the need to distance the rest of her caucus from them (hence the “their only four votes.” comment) You can bet, it took a lot of her time, the spending of some political capital and a few ruffled feathers get this done and keep everyone in line. I thought she presented a pretty good face, that there really are grownups in the room, we’ll get the kids straightened out after supper. And things were looking up, for about a whole 15 minuet. Then Bam, out came the tweets! Even his backers said he went to far. The dem-verse exploded, the never-trump, inteligencia keepers of the conservative movement howled, he really did go to far this time! They started throwing punches, knowing they were doing real damage! finally!

    I can just imagine the look on the speakers face when she was thinking about how best to make this own goal hurt, but first things first, we got to get these poor women in front of the camera, fast, with as many dems in the background as can get, show the country how we support them unconditionally, against that imbecil’s tweet, . . . the tweet . . that . makes .these. idiots. the face of. the .party . again?

    The timing was perfect, let Nancey waste all that time, effort, capital and good will.

    He knew the dems would want blood. He played them to a tee, forcing them to close ranks around the absolutely worst people they could.

    And the never-trumps bit so hard, they actually thought they were winning!

    When he was elected, I thought he was a complete buffoon. Then a lucky baffone. Then realizing, no bodies that lucky, he must have some talent.
    here. But this is a masterpiece.

  94. Was the atomic bomb Truman’s revenge? No. Brutal as it was, it was a means used to decisively defeat tyranny.

    What some do not seem to get, is that Trump’s opponents promote tyranny … today, the tyranny of the condescending busybody, who believes they know better than you how to run your life … hiding their hubris and arrogance behind a facade of passive-aggressive demeanor that looks “nice” to people, but is easily turned against you to get their way.

    Trump’s demeanor is not rage, or childishness … it is the resolve to not let his opponents hide behind that facade to rob us of our liberty.

    And millions see that, including many beyond the 63 million that put him in office. I have heard of only one or two people who voted for Trump in 2016, who claim they won’t vote for him in 2020 … while there are significantly more who didn’t vote at all, or for another candidate, in 2016 that now will vote for Trump.

    It comes down to this:

    PROGRESSIVES SEEK TO LORD IT OVER US
    PRESIDENT TRUMP DOES NOT
    THATIS THE DIFFERENCE THAT COUNTS

  95. There are now quite a few million African Americans and Hispanics who had trouble finding work for eight years (really 30 years) and who are not gainfully employed and experiencing rising wages. These groups have no voice in the media, but they will vote in 2020.

  96. Trump was not my first choice as Republican POTUS candidate in 2016. He wasn’t even my second choice. However, he’s been so good in office he has made me think he might end up doing even better than the sainted Ronald Reagan. No, I wasn’t enthused about voting for him in 2016, but I’d crawl over broken glass on my hands and knees to do it in 2020.

    We won the Flight 93 election in a near-miraculous way, one reminiscent of David vs. Goliath, or the U.S. Olympic hockey team of 1980 over the Soviets. We MUST NOT throw that incredible stroke of good fortune away. I woke up every morning for eight years under the previous administration scared to death of what that criminal would do next to infringe on America’s freedom. I don’t ever want to experience that again, and the only way to avoid it is to keep the ‘Rats out of power until their repeated losses make them regain some semblance of sanity.

  97. Trump says publicly the kinds of things we all know other Presidents say privately. I find it refreshing.

  98. There are a lot of smart comments on NEO, which is to be expected.

    I wonder why people always argue 3D chess versus (petulant narcissism, etc.). He’s just wizened by experience and a bit clever, with the unique ability to not give a shit what “right thinkers” think of him..

    Trump does not have to be Einstein to understand marketing and predict the behavior people in power, enough to take a bank shot, or game the 2nd order effects of his tweets, in this case putting Nancy and the Dems in a bind, forcing them to commit to the radicals.

    Setting aside the micro-analysis of tactics, i relate most to, and think there are a lot of, people who find him alternately repulsive (narcissism crudity), and endearing. Endearing because he’s having fun manipulating the left and the media, and shows genuine (if unsophisticated, “tut-tut” NRO) love for the US and wants to rack up wins for the country.

    I voted for Chuck Norris in 2016 (Gerry Garcia being unavailable), to be able to say that “I never voted for that pig” (plus I live in Massachusetts, not Ohio so having no impact on the witches chances).

    This time, I will vote for Trump. I think there are a lot of people in the same place, but they are reluctant to broadcast their views.

  99. Trump approval rating jumps, just shy of locking in reelection

    President Trump’s approval rating has been improving and now is at his all-time high and just a few points shy of what’s needed to guarantee him a second term.

    In the latest SurveyMonkey/NBC poll out Friday, Trump is at 48% and he reached 49% in a daily YouGov.com poll this month.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/trump-approval-rating-jumps-just-shy-of-locking-in-reelection

    With the usual disclaimers about polls, I would say it’s arguable Trump’s maneuver against Pelosi and the Squad did him more good than harm.

  101. Why? Because they think there are enough Muslim, black, and Hispanic Jew haters in Michigan and Minnesota to help flip the 2020 presidential election.

  102. Nancy is defending the socialist radicals because in her lizard-brain she knows that to do otherwise would be to commit political suicide. And also, her visceral hatred of Trump does not allow her to do otherwise. The Dems close ranks around them, because they don’t want to be primaried by Saikat Chakrabarti and his minions and sponsors.

  104. “In the past, we could freely discuss the shortcomings of any Republican but not anymore. You are either for him or you’re a RINO.”

    Rome is burning and he is the only one showing any energy to fight the fire. I can get his shortcomings 24/7 from the media, work and family. In fact I cannot escape it. As far as I’m concerned the rinos stabbed me in the back for years. And so many of them proved to be unworthy right after the election. But I will take votes anywhere I can find them. But the dirty Little secret is that most of the republicans in Congress do not really want border security.

  106. Why do less radical Dems support the Gang of Four? I think you have to go back to Marcuse and the concept of “no enemies on the left.”

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