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The Mueller Report, the persistence of Russiagate, and the conspiracy theory phenomenon — 48 Comments

  1. Laws; such as laws of physics, not even laws passed by governments, rules, such as rules of evidence, logic and reason, they matter not to a conspiracy theorist. Don’t even think to ask about history, recorded or oral. Traditions and precedent? A Constitution or Bill of Rights? They (conspiracy theorists) are above all those things.

  2. The persecution (and perhaps the prosecution) of thoughtcrime will, in all likelihood, become increasingly prevalent in the brave new world envisioned by leftists, aided and abetted by Big Media and Big Tech.

  3. Belief in conspiracy theories is religious in nature. The belief is not BECAUSE of the evidence, but in SPITE of it. This sort of belief requires faith.

    The concept of Russian/Trump collusion became dogma for the Dems and for most of the MSM. It was a matter of faith that the collusion occurred and that Mueller would find the proof (“…and the truth shall set you free.”) And now the messiah has just come down from the mountain and told them that it was all an elaborate hoax.

    Is it any surprise that they are in mourning? They are clearly exhibiting first stages of grief, Denial and Anger, and are a long way from Acceptance.

  4. Makes you wonder what would have happened with Barr as the AG. They knew he wasn’t going to buy their argument for obstruction so they went this route.

  5. Bugliosi updated:
    “The conspiracy theorists are so outrageously brazen that they tell lies not just about verifiable, documentary evidence, but about clear, photographic evidence, knowing that only one out of a thousand of their readers, if that, ” —
    WILL GO TO THE TROUBLE OF LOOKING FOR THEMSELVES.

    “The point is that brazen lies don’t necessarily have consequences, and they convince many people. And if the truth doesn’t point the way one wants it to, unscrupulous people with a lot invested in their previous stories will turn to lies to bolster their credibility, and sometimes it works. They count on the relative ignorance of the public.” – Neo

    I quit bookmarking the MSM articles (left AND right) which “brazenly” lied or mis-stated what Barr said in his press conference. Some may have been just ignorant (sadly, not without precedent), but a lot was clearly malevolent.

    Quoted by Ace today:
    http://ace.mu.nu/archives/380942.php

    Switch to any channel or grab any paper and you’ll find plenty of cringe-worthy embarrassment to go around, but the icing on the cake has got to be Brian “Commander McBragg” Williams, who was all set to dispatch Trump lawyer Jay Sekulow.

    Williams: “My first question, I’m afraid, is going to verge on plain English. Where did the attorney general get off with that characterization this morning, including four mentions that there was no collusion? What document was he reading, compared to the one we’re left with?”

    Sekulow: “Well, page two of the document says, ‘The investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign coordinated with the Russian government in its election of interference activities.’ So it’s right from the document itself.”

  6. Roy:
    Mixing your metaphors a bit, such as who came down from the mountain. A bit tone deaf on this week. just sayin… 😉

  7. Another nice compendium by Ace, including one directed at the flabbergastering writer, David French.

    http://ace.mu.nu/archives/380948.php
    Chris Buskirk: William Barr Was Right and the Media and Ruling Class Were Wrong About Everything. It’s Time for Them to Admit It.

    He also briefly talks about the NeverTrumpers, always eager to be Useful Idiots for their true political allies, the upper class left.

    Speaking of, let’s check in with another NeverTrump Collusion Truther, deftly mutating his conspiracy theory to avoid previous refutations:

    Sean Davis
    ?
    @seanmdav
    Sorry, but you don’t get to yadda yadda yadda the fact that there was no Russian collusion just so you can get back to your happy place of Orange Man Bad and pretend like the baseless conspiracy theory you pushed didn’t just blow up in your face. https://twitter.com/DavidAFrench/status/1119232249554018304

    David French
    ?
    @DavidAFrench
    When evaluating the Mueller report, there are important questions beyond the existence of a conspiracy. A free people should ask what kind of man they want at the helm of the world’s greatest nation. It should not be this man: https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/the-mueller-report-should-shock-our-conscience/

    1,348
    11:25 AM – Apr 19, 2019

  8. Conspiracy theorists cling to their theories in the face of knowledge that contradicts those theories.

    neo: I don’t think it’s that simple or it should include the likelihood that anti-conspiracy theorists equally cling to their theories in the face of knowledge that contradicts those theories.

    It’s just good old confirmation basis. People believe stuff in line with what they already believe.

    The ardent JFK anti-conspiracy folks were usually quite fundamentalist: “The Warren Commission said it, I believe it and that settles it,” even when it was clear they were ignoring troubling evidence to the contrary such as the counter-intuitive JFK headsnap or the original Warren timings on bullets fired or Ruby’s freakish success in killing Oswald while surrounded by LEOs and all the questions concerning Oswald’s mysterious associations and motives.

    I don’t want to get into the weeds of the JFK assassination. I was never convinced there was a conspiracy but for a long time it seemed a strong possibility. Bugliosi settled those questions to my satisfaction and I moved on.

    Most Warren Report defenders didn’t even try. They just harrumphed about “conspiracy theories” and “assassination buffs” and ignored contrary evidence. That’s plenty weak thinking as I assess these things. They get no credit from me.

    Conspiracies happen. For instance, I say the current Deep State actors — Comey, McCabe, Strzok, Page et. al. — were colluding and conspiring against Trump. You and most commenters here agree, I think.

    But it is a conspiracy theory, which Democrats don’t buy and harrumph about. Don’t be absurd. After all Mueller and Comey were Republicans.

  9. “If special counsel Mueller believed there was an obstruction offense, he should have had the courage of his convictions and recommended charging the president. Since he wasn’t convinced there was enough evidence to charge, he should have said he wasn’t recommending charges. Period.

    Anything else was — and is — a smear. Worse than that, it flouts the Constitution.” Andrew McCarthy

    What should be the consequence for a lawyer and high government official who purposely flouts the Constitution in a case upon which Constitutional order itself rests?

    Disbarment seems the appropriate consequence.

    And since the N.Y. State Bar Association will not bring disbarment proceedings against Mueller, the consequence for them should be the revocation of their licenses to practice before the bar.

    When the organization responsible for professional ethical oversight abandons its sole purpose, it should be disbanded forthwith. Of course that also applies to Congress.

    Politicians, lawyers, government officials, teachers, professors, etc., all professions that have a public responsibility, must be held to account when they behave in a manner injurious to the public’s welfare. That they are not held to account for their behavior is a large part of why America has devolved into its present circumstances. And they are not held to account because half the American public bases its moral compass upon personal feelings.

    “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” John Adams

    IMO, by “a moral and religious people” Adams meant a people who base their moral standards upon the premise of a deity whose understanding of morality far transcends mankind’s necessarily limited perception. Mankind must believe itself ultimately accountable to a higher ‘court’ or as Dostoevsky pointed out, “If there is no God -then everything is permitted.”

    “Society cannot exist, unless a controlling power upon will and appetite be placed somewhere; and the less of it there is within, the more there must be without.

    It is ordained in the eternal constitution of things, that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters.” Edmund Burke

    Burke placed his finger firmly upon the issue; a people who cannot exercise self-discipline, will inevitably be ‘disciplined’ by those who see themselves as ordained to rule.

  10. Another nice compendium by Ace, including one directed at the flabbergastering writer, David French.

    I’ve gotten the impression that the most intense influence on David French and Jonah Goldberg is ‘in for a dime, in for a dollar’. It seems to trump every other consideration.

  11. The Boston Globe just announced that Elizabeth Warren is calling for an immediate vote on impeachment. Everyone in the clown car is grabbing for the door frames so they won’t get kicked off.

  12. om,

    I meant what I said. If you follow my comments, you will know that I am an Atheist. I view all forms of faith as intellectual weakness.

  13. I had three immediate take-aways yesterday after watching the video of the press conference (about 2 pm), and the media responses to the report, which was released at 11am.

    (1) Man, those pundits read fast! Some even claimed to have “read the whole report” by that afternoon or evening.
    I can’t read a 500-page NOVEL that fast, and I am a very speedy reader. I suspect most did the same thing as my third-grader when he read LOTR: he skipped a lot.

    That is, they looked at the precise parts of the report they were interested in, ignoring long passages of supporting or exonerating evidence, and shoe-horned it into their own theory.

    (2) Man, those anti-Trump & Democrat pundits set a high virtue-bar for President Trump!
    One seldom, if ever, cleared by any president, and that’s just the stuff that we know about.
    Yes, they did different venal and/or corrupt things, but they were still venal and/or corrupt. Those who might NOT have been venal and/or corrupt were accused of it anyhow.

    I can remember hearing reading the taunts “Ma, Ma, where’s my Pa? Gone to the White House ha, ha, ha1” and even George Washington (gasp!) padded his expense accounts (and, oh yeah, he had slaves).

    At least David French didn’t publish his post until 10 pm, so he might even have read some of the report.

    (3) Rod Rosenstein gave the most convincing impersonation of a Madame Tussaud Waxwork evah.

    Footnotes:
    (1) speedreading (a lot of posts don’t give times; some don’t even bother with dates)
    Trump didn’t obstruct justice…because his surrogates wouldn’t do his dirty work
    Jacob Heilbrunn -April 18, 2019 -1:58 PM

    Mueller Report Details Trump’s Attempts to Influence Probe
    By JACK CROWE -April 18, 2019 – 4:29 PM

    The Mueller Report Should Shock Our Conscience
    By DAVID FRENCH -April 18, 2019 -10:14 PM

    (2) virtue-bar — well, just about everybody ojecting to Mueller’s conclusions, or the lack thereof.

    (3) Ramrod Rosenstein – I went looking for someone else who had noticed his circus side-show taxidermic quality, as well as the identity of the Bearded Lady on the other side of Barr, and only got these two hits.

    He is “Edward O’Callaghan, a former assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York, who joined the Department of Justice earlier this month as a principal associate deputy attorney general.”

    FWIW: Reading all of the titles of the FBI, DOJ, XYZ agencies the last couple of years has given me a new respect for Keith Laumer’s CDT.

    (fair warning – Sarah Jones is not a conservative enabler of The Vindicated One, but her posts were kind of snidely amusing)

    https://www.thecut.com/2019/04/rod-rosenstein-william-barr-mueller-press-conference.html

    https://www.thecut.com/2019/04/bearded-man-barr-mueller-press-conference.html

  14. The ardent JFK anti-conspiracy folks were usually quite fundamentalist: “The Warren Commission said it, I believe it and that settles it,” even when it was clear they were ignoring troubling evidence to the contrary such as the counter-intuitive JFK headsnap or the original Warren timings on bullets fired or Ruby’s freakish success in killing Oswald while surrounded by LEOs and all the questions concerning Oswald’s mysterious associations and motives.

    Who do you have in mind? The subject of Kennedy’s head movements has been addressed again and again, and a casual consumer of magazine articles on the subject is surely familiar with the arguments pro and con. There was nothing ‘freakish’ about Ruby killing Oswald. It was 1963, and the sort of vigilance you’re retrospectively expecting was not common. Metal detectors in the inner city courthouse where I used to work were installed only in 1989, and only after a judge had been stabbed in his chambers. As for Oswald’s ‘associations’ and ‘motives’, try some inductive reasoning.

  15. Impeachment, infanticide, immigration, sound like a trifecta of winning arguments for Democrats in 2020, but probably not.

  16. I’ve gotten the impression that the most intense influence on David French and Jonah Goldberg is ‘in for a dime, in for a dollar’. It seems to trump every other consideration.

    Art Deco: Pray tell, good sir, would you be so kind as to amplify on your (yet another) pronouncement?

    I don’t agree with everything JP or DF say, but I read them as straight-shooters with integrity. In fact it is integrity that is their sore point with Trump, who is clearly not an individual with sterling integrity. Nor are many of those in his orbit.

    I’ve made my peace with Trump’s lack of integrity, at least on the surface. There may be something harder and more solid deeper down. Otherwise, I don’t understand how he would be doing as good a job as POTUS.

    Plus, of course, bragging, exaggerating to the point of deceit, and garden-variety fraud (Trump University) pale in terms of the wholesale lying, fraud and crime from the Obama and Clinton camps which have distorted the entire structure of the federal government.

    That said, I found David French’s latest pearl-clutching over the Mueller Report silly.

  17. I don’t agree with everything JP or DF say, but I read them as straight-shooters with integrity. In fact it is integrity that is their sore point with Trump, who is clearly not an individual with sterling integrity. Nor are many of those in his orbit.

    I read them as soreheads who cannot adjust their conclusions in the face of new data. As for their integrity, I don’t think they’re lying; I think they’re being jerks.

  18. Their current behavior is a huge testimony to the idea that such people really should not be in power, not the opposite as they see or wish it.

    as i have said before, invest in ovens…
    there is no brake on this train

  19. and garden-variety fraud (Trump University)

    The argument contra that project was that they hired people as instructors who were not real estate professionals, but cheesy rope-em-in sales types. This was the contention of the plaintiff’s attorneys, about whose utterances caveat lector. It wouldn’t surprise me if that were true, but since the case was settled out of court, some factual points are not established.

  20. Art Deco & huxley – for you! (JP = JG??)

    https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/but-what-about/
    By CHARLES C. W. COOKE
    April 19, 2019 8:50 AM

    The central question in American politics over the last two years — and, indeed, the central question that the investigation into Russian interference gradually evolved to answer — was not “is Donald Trump a good person?” or “is Donald Trump a liar?” or “is Donald Trump fit to be president?” or even “does Donald Trump behave well when under investigation?” It was “is Donald Trump a traitor who colluded with the Russian government to steal the 2016 election, and if not, did his campaign do so on his behalf?” The answer to that question — to those questions, in fact — is a resounding “No.”

    That matters enormously, especially given that most of the media and pretty much the entire opposition party insisted that the opposite answer was forthcoming. To accept the “No” with a head-tilt and then move on quickly to the reiteration of what we already knew — that Trump is a terrible, dishonest, capricious person — seems churlish at best and illiberal at worst.

    Nothing David writes in his post is untrue per se. Nor, in a broader sense, is it irrelevant; these details are crucial when evaluating Trump in general. But it is not even close to being the point here;

    “That said, I found David French’s latest pearl-clutching over the Mueller Report silly.” – huxley
    Indeed.

  21. On the scale of Never Trumpers Bill Krystol is by far the worst then Jennifer Rubin would be next for me then probably French.

    Krystol because of his shamelessness Rubin for her many sudden total flip flops on numerous issues and French for his unending sanctimony.

    Some of the others like Boot, Frum I had little respect for before so I don’t really care about them.

    Goldberg may be the saddest of the bunch. Really used to enjoy his Friday column.

  22. Apparently “Minority Report” is the most popular movie among Nadler, Warren, and the other Dems. Trump committed pre-crime!

    Nadler, Schiff, et al remind me of the narco cops who get addicted while they’re undercover in the movie (IIRC) “Blow”. They literally tear apart their house to find just one more grain of dope. The Dems are tearing apart the Mueller Report to find just one grain of anti-Trump dope.

  23. A pair of articles that show how much of a circus the “collusion” investigation was from the beginning.
    https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/mueller-report-carter-page/
    Where Does Carter Page Go to Get His Apology?
    By RICH LOWRY
    April 18, 2019 11:25 PM

    Remember when Carter Page was supposed to be a spy, when he was a hot cable-TV get, when he was going to be at the center of Trump-Russia collusion? I expected to learn at least something significant new about him in the Mueller report, but it speaks to what a fizzle the report is on the central question it was supposed to be cataloguing, Trump-Russia collusion, that there was nothing new there. Or on much else. We learned a little more about how Manafort wanted to cash in on his Trump gig, but merely for his selfish purposes. Otherwise, it was the same bit players adding up to nothing much and the same Trump Tower meeting that also came to nothing. It’d be nice if all the people who were obsessed with Russia and always suggested the worst acknowledged how wrong they were, but instead it’s on to obstruction!

    More detail in this one.

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/04/carter-page-is-mr-clean/
    Carter Page Is Mr. Clean
    By ERIC FELTEN
    April 19, 2019 3:09 PM

    However implausible it may seem now, there was a time when Carter Page was treated like a dangerous character. So much so that Special Counsel Robert Mueller was specifically tasked with investigating the one-time foreign-policy adviser to candidate Donald Trump.

    Page was not just tagged as an explicit target of Mueller’s probe; he was first on the list. Given what soon befell Manafort and Papadopoulos, one might have expected Page to be wearing the new black. And yet, not only is Carter Page a free man, Mueller never even managed to get him on an overdue parking ticket. The question isn’t so much what happened as what didn’t.

    There’s no room for presumption of innocence when the FBI is making the accusations needed to get a FISA warrant. The first of the four FISA applications declared that “the FBI believes that the Russian Government’s efforts are being coordinated with Page and perhaps other individuals associated with Candidate #1’s [Donald Trump’s] campaign.” The second warrant to surveil Page was secured in January 2017. The judge was told that “the FBI believes that Page has been collaborating and conspiring with the Russian Government.” The third and fourth warrant applications declared “The target of this application is an agent of a foreign power.” These were big claims. The Mueller report shows, even if grudgingly, that those claims were false.

    RTWT

  24. RoyNathanson:

    And a sensitive atheist too (Nope). Notre Dame burns down, Holy Week is in progress and an atheist shows how smart he isn’t. You do your argument no favors by such tactics. Here is a hint, Moses came down from the mountain, not Jesus. You just sound ignorant of the faiths you mock. Bless your soul.

  25. The comments on the old Kennedy assassination post were (of course) very interesting, particularly this one:
    https://www.thenewneo.com/2011/06/18/the-kennedy-conspiracists-conspiracy/#comment-252132
    Sergey on June 20, 2011 at 4:11 pm at 4:11 pm said:
    Russian secret services never employ anybody with mental instability, in any capacity. This fact was so widely known during Communist epoch, that there was a standard trick (also widely known) to avoid being recruited into these organizations as informant without much fuss about it: play psycho. It worked every time, even if the recruiters knew perfectly well your ploy: they could not take a risk. This was a polite form of rejection of the offer.
    * * *
    That made me think about the US Armed Forces “section 8 discharge” for being mentally unfit for service; that made me think about Corporal Klinger in the M*A*S*H tv show (couldn’t get away with that kind of joke today!), and, well….

    https://imgur.com/gallery/oebo7

  26. AesopFan:

    Were they Babylon Bees?

    There is also the insanity ploy in Catch 22 (by Joseph Heller) that Yosarrian learned about but didn’t save him IIRC.

  27. Nunes reveals: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/devin-nunes-hidden-passage-in-mueller-report-shows-scope-memo-tainted-by-trump-dossier

    **”When you look at what happened today, remember we talked a lot about the scope memo. What were the directions given to the special counsel? Well, we now know hidden on page 11, very thinly, still veiled, but we now know they used the Steele dossier, the Clinton dirt, the Clinton-paid-for dirt as part of the memo for the special counsel that directed the special counsel what to do,” Nunes told host Sean Hannity.**

  28. I’m not a fan of Mark Levin stylistically because he gets so angry about everything that it dilutes things that he should be angry about but his rant on Fox News today was really good.

    Hopefully guys like him and McCarthy will remember this in the future when commenting about the law even when it only involves the little guy. Their old pals are not who they thought they were.

  29. Byron York: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/byron-york-mueller-michael-flynn-was-under-fbi-investigation-before-transition-calls

    **Now comes news that there was an open, Russia-related investigation of Flynn before the Kislyak conversations ever took place. It’s unclear what such an investigation was based on, and what it involved. Were there wiretaps? Some other sort of surveillance? Informants? It’s all unknown, even after Flynn’s guilty plea and long period of cooperation. (Flynn is still awaiting sentencing.)**

  30. om – forgot about Catch-22!
    As for The Babylon Bee, it’s having to yield pride of place to the Associated Press.

    https://www.redstate.com/ameliahamilton/2019/04/19/ap-insults-christians-description-notre-dame/

    Posted at 2:00 pm on April 19, 2019 by Amelia Hamilton

    Just days ago, the Cathedral of Notre Dame in Paris, one of the great cathedrals of the world, burned. It burned during Holy Week, the most sacred week of the Christian calendar.

    How did the Associated Press cover this? Feast your eyes on this headline.

    “Tourist mecca Notre Dame also revered as place of worship.”

    To say Twitter erupted would be too kind.

    “Use of the word mecca, ignorance of history, and worship as an afterthought.”
    “Okay, @TheBabylonBee, let’s see you try and satirize this headline:”
    “Top notch work by @TheOnion right here… what the, WHAT?!”

  31. Sorry — didn’t intend to put so much text in the link. But the edit function wasn’t working, so… Also, make that “its” in my second sentence.

  32. Ann – thanks for high-lighting the lede from the story.

    It has long been a fact of life that the article writers don’t get to choose their own headlines. Still, the subordination of worship to tourism is evident in the factually accurate, but not very well-written, piece.

    I think many people are also reacting to the totally tone-deaf use of “mecca” as a idiom for “popular destination,” which is not totally the headline writer’s fault, as the word is used in the article itself. That particular shorthand is always thoughtless (that’s what make an aphorism a cliche) and generally inappropriate, given that Mecca is a sacred site for Muslims, but under current circumstances in France it is particularly ignorant.

  33. https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1119213535291166720.html

    John Hayward@Doc_0

    Stand by for important thread on how the Mueller report proves collusion by not finding any collusion because it takes collusion to cover up all the collusion I know was happening. I’ve asked Twitter to broadcast this to every single user except my therapist. Tweet 1 of 846.
    Tweet 49 of 846: “Mueller.” Obviously a German name. Which Germany? East Germany probably. A Russian deep cover agent trained by KGB in the 80s, maybe even Putin himself. It was staring us in the face all along.

    Tweet 389 of 846: I hear drums. Drums in the deep. They are coming.

  34. om,

    Religious conservatives chafe at being told that they need to be sensitive to the beliefs of Muslims. Yet you want me to be sensitive to the beliefs of Christians.

    In a recent survey, 23% of Americans identified themselves as “None” when asked for religious affiliation. I think that it is you who should try to be more sensitive to the opinions of such a significant segment of the population. Actually, I am not expecting it… ?

    But, it would be nice not to be called out on such an obvious analogy. Artfldgr found an article saying virtually the same thing as I did.

    Do you refrain from criticism of Ilhan Omar and her overt racism just because it is Ramadan. I would think not. So why should I submerge my deepestly held beliefs simply out of fear that I might possibly offend you?

    Do have a fine day, sir.

  35. Roy Nathanson:

    You have beliefs? An arrogant atheist who is sure he is “intellectually stronger” than non-atheists, a superman, who knew? Was it insensitive of me to question a specific Atheist, a representative of 23% of whatever? Nope. Try not to worry or fear Roy, this isn’t the Handmaids Tale.

    Don’t hide behind the Muslim strawman, it’s not intellectually strong. Hint, don’t drop the racist card either.

    You may have also have insulted Jews also with your “Messiah coming down from the mountain” “wit.” But bless your soul, we are all made in God’s image.

  36. om,

    Actually, it is the reverse. God is made in Man’s image. Every god ever invented by man seems to over represent man’s worst traits.

  37. Roy, this is not a great site for constant agnostic atheistic arguing; hasn’t been; hope it doesn’t degenerate into another one.

    Believers can certainly be non-rational about their beliefs. Whether religious, anti-religious, or belief in some event that never happened.

    Those that believed that the Mueller Report would show that Trump colluded must come to grips with the fact, long “known” (strongly suspected?) to many of us, that there was no evidence of collusion, or of any crime.

    This belief was always known to be falsifiable. Most religious beliefs are not falsifiable, and therefore not subject to the scientific method.

    What is subject to that method, is comparing how extremist believers with different beliefs act, and making probabilistic estimates about future actions. Such estimates can then be checked with the facts, as they occur, or don’t.

    Another fact about humans is that, as they change their beliefs, they can claim to themselves that they were never “really wrong”. I’m sure most Mueller Report believers are in the process of doing some versions of that, now. Also, some of them will just up and say, “They were lied to, they believed the lies by the Dem media and the Dem liars, and now … ?? (some will support Trump?)”

    Mueller’s failure to find evidence against the non-guilty Trump is huge exoneration. The obstruction issues are going to be increasingly seen as distractions from going after the guilty deep state criminals: Comey, Lynch, McCabe; Clinton, Rice, Obama.

    Actually, I’m waiting to find out the names of the 8 criminal referrals Nunes is supposed to be sending.

    I’ll believe in indictments when I read that some of the criminals are indicted. I already believe they should be indicted, including HR Clinton.

  38. Roy Nathanson:

    You may have created a non-God for your mind. Others have considered the question of God at a far deeper and more rigorous level. You may want to read

    “Five Proofs of the Existence of God” by Edward Feser.
    ISBN 978-1-62164-133-9.

    This life is short. God bless your soul.

  39. Tom Grey,

    Please read my first post in this thread. It was not offensive to anyone here and should not have been controversial. Yet, I have been defending myself since.

  40. I request an end to the personal sniping. The question of religion—atheism vs. belief—is often a loaded one, and there’s no need for insults.

  41. Everyone has moved to discussing obstruction; J. E. Dyer takes a long hard look at the allegations of Russian meddling, and how they didn’t make any difference to the election, until we were TOLD about them.

    https://libertyunyielding.com/2019/04/19/mueller-report-the-unexplored-bias-of-the-russian-interference-in-the-election-case/

    bonus article on who knew what and when
    https://libertyunyielding.com/2019/04/18/the-2015-saga-a-weekend-with-john-brennan-and-bill-clinton/

  42. huxley on April 19, 2019 at 5:18 pm at 5:18 pm said:

    A pretty good post on fairness and balanced viewpoints. This sees the positive and negative traits of both pro conspiracy theorists and anti theorists.

    Roy Nathanson I applaud, if only because he was able to elicit several paragraphs and posts in a debate with a christian that almost never makes those longer logical points to others. It was useful seeing the pro and con points made by members here, even if it led nowhere ultimately.

    I am fine with Roy’s beliefs or lack of them. Not a threat to me personally or to my gods or to my Divinity. If I had to be respectful of other people’s beliefs, I would have to write some appalling apology to everyone after writing to them only a few sentences.

    I burn it all down with Krittika, criticism, the sharp cutting blade. If it is pure, it will remain untouched from the Fire.

    Also Neo, I don’t remember the JFK posts of yours that I have read, covering the issue with the SS removing their motor coverage of JFK’s vehicle, front and sides. JFK was out in the open and normal procedure would have the SS as escorts on the side, because they need to be close bodyguards not “far bodyguards” that can’t react in time to say, other vehicles or people ramming JFK.

    This removal of the motor protection escorts provided a clear shot to the sniper(s).

    Also, you have not covered the recent evidence unclassified by President Trum. There were several interesting details unveiled.

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