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Some questions about the caravan — 20 Comments

1. Just think of where we would be on this if the people who were against totalitarianism, decided to wake up over 10 years ago, and not wait for this kind of thing..

   this kind of thing started over a decade ago
   with operations in south america…
   send cubans over, and voila, destabilization
   this creates refugees

   now, the bad part is that somehow, some way, this mass of mostly MEN, have to be stopped… if not. you can bet, the 28,000 caravan from EACH country will start the week after

   now… anyone want to reference the origins of this?
   if it wasnt our demographic collapse, for listening to the left (feminists?)
   most of this would not have happened given that the numbers would not have collapsed to the point the left is chanigng sides again (ingratiating themselves to the REPLACEMENTS)…

   if you study them in any real detail, you would have noticed a trend of following racists when racists look like they are winning… then the opposite… then now, with their constituency dying out on their own advice, they spend 20 years building a reputation and importing replacements

   its in the medical books
   the state books
   the finance books
   but until neo agrees, its not happening

   following the advice of a world famous eugenicist, friends with Ernst Rudin, and more… and you think your NOT going to get eugenics?

   thats like wanting socialism and not getting communism and state slavery

   I WORK IN A MEDICAL LIBRARY AND BEEN READING FOR DECADES ABOUT THE COLLAPSE AS DETAILED IN MEDICAL JOURNALS

   Low Fertility at the Turn of the Twenty-First Century
   Is low fertility a twenty-first-century demographic crisis? – NCBI
   How the World Survived the Population Bomb: Lessons … – NCBI
   The Effect of Fertility Reduction on Economic Growth – NCBI – NIH

   America’s looming fertility collapse [The Boston Globe]
   Profiting From America’s Demographic Collapse | Seeking Alpha [Investing]
   The US will become ‘minority white’ in 2045, Census projects [Brookings]
   Death Spiral Demographics: The Countries Shrinking The Fastest [Forbes]
   

   What’s Driving the Decline in U.S. Population Growth? – Population

   The drop in immigration levels means that a smaller share of U.S. population growth is directly attributable to immigration, as opposed to natural increase (the excess of births over deaths). In the early 2000s, immigration accounted for roughly 40 percent of U.S. population growth

   ok… and with reduction in immigration… then what?
   what you fail to realize is that they can survive the influx and gaming, but they cant survive if their VICTIMS find out their advice Democided the population and without the influx, we will collapse and not be able to do what?

   The decline in immigration has been linked to job losses in construction, manufacturing, and other occupations that are often filled by recent immigrants, as well as stricter enforcement of immigration laws. Net immigration levels from Mexico are estimated to have reached zero in recent years as an equal number of people entering the United States from Mexico are now returning to their home country

   this has been in policy papers since the 1980s
   THATS when you should have been woke up and said, hey thats bad
   but you cant even tell how they gamed the german numbers let alone your OWN

   here, I DARE you to look at this graphic and realize what it MEANS
   https://i0.wp.com/www.prb.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/slower-latino-asian-growth.gif?w=570&crop=0%2C0px%2C100%2C300px&ssl=1

   Less immigration therefore reduces the potential number of young people in the population. But even if immigrant levels had held steady during the recession, the U.S. population would still be growing older as the large cohort of baby boomers starts to reach retirement age

   yes.. the oldsters think that as long as they are alive
   we are fertile, healthy and so on
   no, our kids are not marrying
   our kids are not even dating
   our kids are staying away from each other in droves

   they are dying out hating each other thanks to feminism!!!

   A decade ago, children under age 18 made up a significant component of annual population growth and exceeded the growth of those ages 65 and older (see Figure 2). But by 2011, these patterns had reversed: The number of people under age 18 declined by 190,000 between 2010 and 2011, while the number of elderly increased by 917,000. Growth in the number of working-age adults, including those in prime childbearing ages, is also down sharply.

   AND

   U.S. fertility rates have also declined in recent years, reducing levels of natural increase in the population. There were an estimated 4 million births between 2010 and 2011, down from 4.2 million at the recent peak of U.S. population growth between 2005 and 2006. The total fertility rate (TFR) stood at 2.0 births per woman in 2009—down from 2.1 a few years ago—but preliminary data from the National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) suggest that the TFR could drop below 2 births per woman in 2010.

   and its down down down more…
   FOR EACH WOMAN THAT DOES NOT HAVE A CHILD ANOTHER WOMAN HAS TO HAVE 5 FOR A STABLE POPULATION

   Latinos currently account for more than one-fourth of all births in the United States. Yet the Latina general fertility rate (births per 1,000 Latinas ages 15 to 44) dropped

   yes, as they get educated they become feminista and so do note mate.. so you need to import more..

   next part II

2. AND you need to import people from countries that are NOT FEMINIST
   because those are the only people having babies…

   every state with feminism has a declining below replacement birthrate… so the only people you can import from are the undeveloped, otherwise, they wont come here have babies…

   this means religious south america, muslim Africa, etc.

   where else?

   Sub-replacement fertility is a total fertility rate (TFR) that (if sustained) leads to each new generation being less populous than the older, previous one in a given area. In developed countries sub-replacement fertility is any rate below approximately 2.1 children born per woman

   As of 2010, about 48% (3.3 billion people) of the world population lives in nations with sub-replacement fertility

   most of these countries still have growing populations due to immigration, population momentum and increase of the life expectancy. This includes most nations of Europe, Canada, Australia, Brazil, Russia, Iran, Tunisia, China, the United States and many others.

   we cant import from europe..
   In 2015, all European Union countries had a sub-replacement fertility rate

   we cant import from asia except for china
   The countries or areas that have the lowest fertility are in developed parts of East and Southeast Asia: Singapore, Macau, Taiwan, Hong Kong and South Korea

   As of 2016, the total fertility rate varied from 0.82 in Singapore to 6.62 in Niger

   kicking a literal dead horse..
   but dont worry
   we arent having babies

   feminists are not the future
   unless dinosaurs showed the way

3. How convenient, the deplorables are trying to bomb elitist leftists just as the midterms are near. Then there is the convenient caravan of latino women and children needing mercy and succor, but the crucial deplorables want to turn them away to die in the desert. The two are definitely connected. Round up the usual suspects.

4. I remember reading The Camp of the Saints back in the 70’s and feeling the chill run up my spine, wondering who and how such a thing could be stopped. It’s really a slow-motion invasion. How does a country respond? Is it possible without force, and at what cost? I’m not aware of parallels from history, surely there must be some. Tibet has seen its population overwhelmed by — the largely Han, I believe — Chinese. And the country simply doesn’t exist as it did 20 years ago. But this was directed by the PRC leadership.

   I suppose the answer lies in directed action against support being provided along the way. It may be too late for that.

5. I favor a non-lethal but unforgettable ‘layered’ barrier.

   Dowsing the mob with Israeli “Skunk Water” would be an appropriate first disincentive.

   “Invented by Israeli firm Odortec, skunk water was first used by the Israeli military against demonstrators in the occupied West Bank in 2008. Since then armoured vehicles equipped with water cannon spraying jets of the stinky liquid have become a regular sight.”

   Any who got through that, would then encounter
   “The Active Denial System, or ADS, works like an open-air microwave oven, projecting a focused beam of electromagnetic radiation to heat the skin of its targets to 130 degrees. This creates an intolerable burning sensation forcing those in its path to instinctively flee (a response the Air Force dubs the “goodbye effect”).”

   For the very few, if any… who got through the horrific smell and intense burning sensation would then be met with troops armed with “the Taser X12, a 12-gauge shotgun that instead of firing lethal bullet rounds, is designed to fire Taser projectile rounds. Known as Extended Range Electronic Projectiles (XREP), the XREP cartridge, as defined by the Taser website, is a “self-contained, wireless projectile that delivers the same neuro-muscular incapacitation bio-effect [a fancy way of saying electric shock] as the handheld Taser, but up to 100 feet.”

   Those very few would be arrested, tried and imprisoned with deportation at the end of their incarceration.

6. The all-important “how?” question has not been answered, however.

   M4 Active Denial System…

   shoots millimeter waves that do no harm but are painful

   Non Lethal Weapons Program
   Active Denial System FAQs
   https://jnlwp.defense.gov/About/Frequently-Asked-Questions/Active-Denial-System-FAQs/

   Since ya never talk military ya really don’t have any ideas about what we have “in the drawer” that is public…

   [do note that things like non lethal weapons and green food, and so on are really luxuries and without extra cash – you dont get that… ]

   The Active Denial System will support a full spectrum of operations ranging from non-lethal methods of crowd control, crowd dispersal, convoy and patrol protection, checkpoint security, perimeter security, area denial, and port protection, as well as other defensive and offensive operations from both fixed-site or mobile platforms. The Active Denial System is an advanced, long-range non-lethal, directed energy, counter-personnel capability that projects a man-sized (1.5 m) beam of millimeter waves (not microwaves) at a range up to 1,000 meters. It will have the same compelling non-lethal effect on all human targets, regardless of size, age and gender.

   The Air Force has conducted research on the effects and enabling technologies since the late 1980s

7. like Geoffrey idea better..

8. The Mexican government seems to be processing requests for asylum quickly, but most in the caravan are declining Mexico. I’d rather be in the US than Mexico myself, but that is evidence that asylum is not the only thing they are seeking.

9. J E Dyer connects lots and lots of dots, especially the Venezuela-Iran connection.

   https://libertyunyielding.com/2018/10/23/vp-pences-clue-to-whos-behind-migrant-caravan-suggests-major-implications-media-silent/

10. There is a video here that I didn’t watch, but the headline is priceless.

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/the-committee-to-re-elect-the-president-breaks-through-into-mexico/

    The Committee to Re-Elect the President Breaks Through Into Mexico
    STEVE SAILER • OCTOBER 19, 2018 •

11. Overnight reading

    http://thefederalist.com/2018/10/24/im-immigrant-trump-represents-views-immigration-way-better-democrats/

    “On the subject of compassion, there is much to say. Of course, we should be compassionate toward all human beings, and, of course, we should have humane policies toward both legal immigrants and those who illegally cross our border.

    Personally (and truthfully), as one who jumped through all the bureaucratic hoops, did tons of paperwork, and stood in long lines at 5 a.m. outside the American consulate in India to legally immigrate here with my husband, I don’t feel especially compassionate toward the roughly 42 percent of all illegal immigrants who fly to the United States on a tourist visa, deliberately overstay their visa, and stay in the shadows here hoping to get amnesty in the next round of legalization. ”

    https://hotair.com/archives/2018/10/23/democrats-making-mistake-response-caravan/
    “Frum concludes: “If liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders, then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals will not do.” That’s overstating it a bit but I think he’s basically right. ”

    Also from that HA post:
    “That apparently started from this story at Judicial Watch which made its way to other sites and eventually was mentioned on Fox and Friends. Is it possible terrorists could infiltrate a large wave of migrants? Sure, it’s possible. Is there any evidence there are ISIS members in the caravan now? Not that I’ve seen.”

    https://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2018/10/100-isis-terrorists-caught-in-guatemala-as-central-american-caravan-heads-to-u-s/

    I’ve seen several pundits claiming that JW’s warning is wrong, but “No evidence that I’ve seen” to support their own contention, and JW is usually a very reputable reporter.
    I guess we will have to see what kind of “extreme vetting” we can get; in the meantime, look at Dyer’s post I linked earlier.

12. https://hotair.com/archives/2018/10/24/another-caravan-el-salvador/

    “Did you hear about the migrant caravan? No… not that one. The current Honduran caravan is still weeks away from the United States and is causing more headline hysteria than any actual threat to our borders thus far. I’m talking about the new caravan. According to NBC News, this one is forming up in El Salvador and planning to leave next week. And it may make the Honduran group look like small potatoes.
    …
    Before anyone on the left begins cheering this next army of migrants on, at what point are you going to admit that there’s a limit to how many incoming waves like this we can brace for before the system is entirely overloaded? The fact is, our immigration system at the border is already overloaded. We can’t process the asylum requests of the people showing up now in any reasonable amount of time. The Honduran flood of humanity would have us backed up for months. If we add another 7,000 on top of that we may as well just throw in the towel.

    This is why we need a secure border with controlled access points. In other words, build the damn wall.”

13. Sarah Hoyt (legal immigrant from Portugal) is always very up-front about discussing the elephants in the room. As a survivor of socialism, she also has a lot to say about Leftist operations.

    https://accordingtohoyt.com/2018/10/24/the-elephants/

    “But more importantly, and no one is covering this: Why don’t the journalists and leftists understand that this concocted crisis and concocted narrative makes no sense?
    Do they think refugees just materialize out of nowhere, for no reason? What do they think these people are running from and why?

    I know they keep interviewing people who say they’re running from “oppression” and “economic hardship” and “intolerable conditions” but are they out of their mind to believe this would spontaneously form a caravan?

    We actually KNOW what causes caravans (more like columns) of migrants and refugees.

    Sudden invasions. Total and SUDDEN economic collapse (and for this, Venezuela counts as sudden.) Real and sudden intolerable conditions. Natural disasters.

    When it’s impossible to remain where you are — and consider how far it has to go to make people think it’s impossible. Think Venezuela — people grab essentials and families and GO.

    Post World War Two, during (mostly) the Soviet “liberation”, people leaving Germany. During World War Two, refugees leaving places the Germans invaded. Jews leaving Germany (the reason my mom calls a 30s design of overcoat a “refugee coat.”) under the Nazis. People escaping the East when the wall fell.

    Refugees form columns not on purpose, but because they’re all headed the same way, starting at about the same time because that’s when they couldn’t delay anymore. They carry the absolute minimum. They do not cover 100 miles in a day (which, yes, this “caravan” has done.) And they do not — repeat NOT, not even under the German invasion or while escaping Eastern Europe — carry the flag of the country they’re escaping, or burn the flag of the country towards which they’re traveling.

    I don’t know if the left is confused by their own insistence on calling Muslim immigrants “refugees.” BUT caravans are not normal ways to run away from anything, and if you get help it’s usually a hunk of stale bread from a nearby person, not trucks to convey you during the night.

    This bizarre sham is a leftist pilgrimage, complete with the hagiography of Marxist icons, like flags of third world countries and people spouting Marxism for the cameras, and Marxist rituals like burning the American flag.

    Let’s call it what it is: a Marxist crusade. And let’s treat it accordingly. Your freedom of religion doesn’t give you the right to violate US laws.

    Also, while at it, and I’m putting this here AND in PJ because I want my marker down ahead of time: if they get to the border and there’s ANY confrontation, a pregnant woman will get shot.

    How do I know that? Aren’t there way more men than women, and aren’t only some women pregnant? Aren’t the odds staggeringly against it?

    I know it because EVERY TIME there’s a big confrontation staged by communists (and the left are ultimately that) a pregnant woman gets shot. Since it’s so against the odds, I think that if needed the left shoots the pregnant woman themselves. But I learned this through countless incidents. EVERY TIME. And then there’s hagiography built around this woman and the left advances a bit more.

    My advance condolences to the family of the woman who’ll get shot, and remember you read it here first and it’s not an accident and not anyone’s fault but the communists who need blood sacrifice to advance the sacred “cause.

    Perhaps instead we should take their sacrifice of a symbol of the future for a measure of their true intentions for the world.”

14. An article linked by a Hoyt commenter.

    https://bigleaguepolitics.com/photos-usaid-bags-carried-by-caravan-of-illegals-taxpayers-on-the-hook/

    PHOTOS: USAID Bags Carried By Caravan of Illegals, US Taxpayers On The Hook
    “It’s clear at this point that the migrant caravan that is making its way through Mexico, is funded by a far-left group, more than likely billionaire globalist George Soros is backing the entire operation and now there may be photographic evidence linking him to the migrants.

    Overnight, reports were showing that funding behind the enormous gang of mainly young men coming to the United States border was being funded, at least in part, by a group tied to USAID.
    …
    The same Twitter user follows with another tweet including an article by Judicial Watch that includes 49 pages of newly obtained documents from the State Department regarding the USAID, and being funded by……..drumroll……..

    George Soros’s left-wing nonprofit organizations in the nation of Albania.”

15. More support for the presence of non-Hondurans etc. in the Caravan.

    https://bigleaguepolitics.com/breaking-governor-abbott-confirms-terrorists-from-malaysia-and-other-countries-among-migrant-caravan/

    “The Governor of Texas made a shocking revelation on Glenn Beck’s radio show on Tuesday morning.

    “I’ve had the opportunity to speak with both the Secretary of Homeland Security as well as the President about this, and I’ll tell you what I can tell you publicly,” said Gov. Greg Abbott (R-Texas.). “Very importantly, in this caravan are not just people from Honduras and Guatemala. We know that some of the people in it are from countries across the entire globe. There are what we use in the lingo “SIA’s” – special interest aliens – who pose a very real dangerous threat to the security of the United States of America.”

    Beck mentioned reports people with terrorist ties from Malaysia being part of the caravan. Abbott confirmed the report.

    “And I’ve heard the same thing with regard to terrorists coming from countries other than Malaysia,” Abbott said.”

16. For some financial perspective, because most people don’t do big-group logistics:
    I’m on a planning committee for a youth activity next summer, which involves renting three buses for 4 days, for 150 people, and feeding them as well (lodging is minimal because of the camping venue).

    We are budgeting $30,000 and up = $2k per person = $500 per day.

    14,000 = 7,000,000 PER DAY at comfy US prices.
    Cut it by a factor of 3-5 for third-world, and it’s still a chunk of change.
    * * *

    Again from Hoyt’s commenters:
    Somewhat related, the Catholic diocese down that way say there are 14,000 Hondurans in the caravan:
    https://www.eluniversal.com.mx/english/14000-hondurans-caravan

    So, two brigades?

    30 per Platoon. (1st, 2nd , 3rd. Weapons platoon)
    = 120 per Company (Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, H&S Company)
    = 600 per Battalion.
    That’s for Marine infantry, TOE on paper, reality is usually 85% of that, from my time in the 90s.

    14,000 is a full division (anywhere from 10k to 25k).
    By current TO, I think.

    14,000 was the size of some army corps in Civil War days, and the group of people marching up the road waving flags in close order march resembles the march of such armies

    * * *
    So, yeah, invasion pretty much sums it up.

17. Edit isn’t working, I was off by a factor of 10, but $700,000 per day is still a lot of cash money.

18. I am curious how they will be stopped? Does that mean that they will be arrested once in the states, released and given court dates that will ignored just as is the rule now? Or perhaps they will spread out and infiltrate over hundreds of different points through the deserts while only the women and children are directed towards those points with media cameras waiting.
    My prediction: they will succeed by various means (ignoring court dates, successful evasion, sanctuary cities) and the next caravans will be more than 14,000.

19. I am curious how they will be stopped?

    Guns & Ammo.

20. Bob From Virginia on October 25, 2018 at 9:30 am at 9:30 am said:
    I am curious how they will be stopped? Does that mean that they will be arrested once in the states, released and given court dates that will ignored just as is the rule now?
    * * *
    Your prediction is correct (what you reward, you get more of), and I hope it doesn’t come to that or we will be looking at a situation just like Europe’s (and probably with some of the same players).
    To forestall that, Pompeo doesn’t intend for them to reach the border, because of the legal problems you cite. I suspect that Trump is doing what he said: making it clear that foreign aid to the transit countries depends on them stopping the caravan themselves. Whether or not they will is up in the air, but betting against Trump has been a bad gamble to date.

    A couple if ideas gleaned from other reading last night:
    (1) notice how focusing on the destination of the caravan distracts from other areas of the border, which can be targeted by the drug cartels and “legitimate” smugglers?
    (2) Progressives & Left expect conservatives & independents to be swayed by the “compassion” factor, but are discounting that a more likely reaction is fear and indignation. That is, they are running the same playbook as always, which usually gets them political points, but over-doing it (as with Kavanaugh) and tipping things the other way.
    (3) a really fun conspiracy idea, worthy of a commenter on a fiction writer’s blog, and evoking shades of Pallywood (which we undoubtedly will see at any border confrontation):

    c taylor | October 25, 2018 at 7:08 am | Reply
    “Let me ask a tin-foil hat question:

    Do we know this refugee “caravan” actually exists?

    Sarah said they’ve covered 100 miles in a day. I know they averaged over 30 miles/day across Guatemala. The Roman Legions were expected to travel 20/day (and Roman miles at that). Jackson’s foot cavalry is still renown for being able to cover 30miles/day through shrewd use of terrain and incredible endurance of his troops. And this rabble is doing 100miles/day and averaging 30/day over long periods of time? No. That cannot be. So clearly these people are being bussed to photo-ops and then unloaded to be marched in front of (probably cooperative) photographers and news crews.

    But if you’re just bussing people in for staged photo-ops, does it have to be the same people? Maybe a cadre of leaders and organizers who are in front each time, but it might be easier to just get a bunch of locals to do it instead of bussing 1000s of Hondurans all the way up into northern Mexico. That would explain how the caravan was able to cross the Honduran/Guatemalan and Guatemalan/Mexican borders without problems. It didn’t (not in quantity anyway, perhaps a few staged photos).”

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