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Cloture vote: 51-49 — 55 Comments

  1. I see the other red state Democrats may have given up on their re-election chances, perhaps because the polls showed them losing even before the Kavanaugh brouhaha.

    Per Rothenberg / Gonzalez, the seats of Nelson (Fla), Donnelly (Ind.), and McCaskill (Mo.) could go either way. Manchin retains an advantage, but not an insuperable one. Heitkamp’s opponent also retains an advantage, but not an insuperable one. No clue what they actually want to do or why, but it’s a reasonable wager they’re carefully calculating marginal benefits and losses.

  2. I’m neither optimistic nor pessimistic about the final vote. I have no idea what will happen. Last I looked, Manchin (inexplicably) still has a pretty huge lead in WV, but I suppose there must be internal polling showing that defeating Kavanaugh would be bad for his chances.

    On the other hand, I don’t see what he could hope to accomplish by voting yes on process and no on substance. Unless I’m missing something, it wouldn’t help him in the slightest.

    I’m going to hazard a guess and say Murkowski is a “no.” She seems to have solid backing from Alaska Natives and the governor in opposing Kavanaugh, and given that she’s probably already opposed to him on other grounds, I’d kiss her vote good-bye.

    I have to say, there’s a nagging part of me that wonders if it wouldn’t be better for the republic if Kavanaugh ultimately didn’t make it. It could energize the base so much, and further alienate more Democrats, that the mid-terms could be a wipe-out. It would probably keep a bunch of the NeverTrumpers on-board for a longer time, and maybe give them an excuse to go easier on the Trumpies in the future.

    Basically, I have a suspicion (and it’s nothing more than that) that this could be a Pyrrhic victory for the Dems, should they happen to get it.

    I’m usually not into “4D chess” thinking, and such broad-based conjectures are generally worthless due to the number of variables involved, but the practical logic of the Pyrrhic win for Dems here seems fairly solid.

    Just a thought to keep us warm should Kavanaugh go down.

  3. I like the idea of the reputation of the Democrats swinging slowly in the wind
    .

  4. “This has been one of the most depressing political events in America in my lifetime.”

    I think its been great! The blatant dishonesty, viciousness, and cynicism with which a good man like Kavanaugh has been attacked has pulled back the pretense of civility that prevents people from seeing the Left for who they really are–evil. As much as it pains me to see Kavanaugh and his family go through this kind of hell, I could live in this moment a while longer. The raw hatred and ideological madness propelling the Left needs to be exposed before it’s too late; I wish things weren’t this bad, but they are.

  5. I made donations yesterday to six senate campaigns, and added one to Neo into the mix since she does such a great job. I’ll probably check out a few more websites and continue with the contributions.

    We all need to do our part – donate, work on a campaign, call your Senators & Representatives to tell them your positions (politely, of course). I can’t be there to help with the GOTV efforts, but perhaps my donations can help. However, I am not donating to the state or national parties.

    I want to see more progress in moving the country forward and getting good people into Congress will help. I also don’t want to see such narrow votes again for the next round of judicial votes.

  6. Ace this morning on Daines:

    “As to the nomination, the big-ish news that broke late yesterday was that Montana Senator Steve Daines, who is a confirmed ‘yes’ vote, would miss Saturday’s session to attend his daughter’s wedding. Most if not all of you I’m sure are aware that a) the cloture vote will take place some time today, and the 30-hour clock that will commence immediately after will stop anywhere from say 10PM Saturday night to perhaps in the wee small hours of Sunday morning, b) Daines has assured McConnell that he will indeed be back in time to cast his vote (I saw somewhere that a plane is on standby for his use) and c) McConnell holds the gavel and he can call the vote any time he wants.”

  7. “This has been one of the most depressing political events in America in my lifetime.” [Neo}

    While that may be the case, I suspect that this is just an exaggerated case of “sausage being made” which is politics as usual. True that the Dems are guilty as charged, but beyond that I can’t believe that negotiations were much more civil in the lead-up to the 3/5 compromise.

    IMO what has changed is the public’s ability to be part and parcel of the ongoing nastiness behind the scenes; that is a good thing.

  8. Let me clarify what most of my depression is about. It’s not so much about what the Democrats in Congress did here. That’s not exactly business as usual, but it’s still about what I might have expected from them.

    For me it’s about how so many people seem to have hopped on that bandwagon—and I mean not just leftists but so many rank and file Democrats. Kavanaugh’s support should have been at least 80% or more. It’s not. People seem to have abandoned the idea not just of the rule of law but of logic itself. That depresses me—the extent of the abandonment.

  9. Neo, yes the bandwagoneering at character assassination was very depressing. But, entirely predictable in our hyper polarized environment. In addition, he has certain superficial characteristics which lend themselves to the same:

    1. His first name is associated with the “jock” stereotype.

    2. He went to an all boys prep school.

    3. He played football at this prep school. Up until the Kaeperneck transformation of the NFL into a venue for virtue signalling, football was arguably the most loathed sport for feminists and SJWs.

    4. He clearly drank fairly heavily at the time.

    So, a prep school, football playing, beer drinking boy named Brett. You might as well just tattoo “rapist” on his forehead in the minds of many progressives.

  10. To quote the late, great Yogi Berra, it ain’t over till it’s over.

    I’ll relax if/when Kavanaugh is taking the oath from John Roberts. Until then, I’m going to remain anxious and just slightly pessimistic.

  11. Agree with you on the red state Democrats who have given up on their re-election chances. As of a couple of days ago, Heitkamp was down by double digits to Cramer in North Dakota. It appears that a “no” vote is safe for her since she’s likely gone regardless.

  12. “People seem to have abandoned the idea not just of the rule of law but of logic itself. That depresses me—the extent of the abandonment.”

    Even as a devout (though by no means perfect) Christian, I’m still struggling with the doctrine of human depravity myself. It’s a hard truth.

  13. “People seem to have abandoned the idea not just of the rule of law but of logic itself. That depresses me—the extent of the abandonment.” [Neo]

    I understand and don’t dismiss that. I offer though that we are fundamentally emotional beings and that logic is superimposed on that framework just as civilization is superimposed on the villagers with firebrands and pitchforks running about screaming: “Kill the monster!” The Dems are experts at calling forth this primal state; they should be, they’ve had a century of practice at it. Conversely, that Michael Anton wrote the following should, I hope, give us some comfort in and otherwise volatile world:

    The Democrats are confident that the Republicans will never resort to the same tactic against one of theirs. They are right to be confident. Whether out of principle or pusillanimity, the Republicans do not have it in them to turn the tables in this way. Perhaps that is for the best.

    https://amgreatness.com/2018/09/28/the-gillibrand-standard/

    This is, IMO, why Trump is so despised by the Never-Trump brigade, because he has no problem returning blow for blow. Still, I believe he is precisely the right person in precisely the right place at precisely the right time. That, too, should give us some comfort and hope as we begin our our own long march to reestablish the fundamentals of Western Civilization.

  14. I think Kavanaugh now loses tomorrow. Murkowski’s vote was needed, in opinion, as is Collins. We should know before the end of today where Collins stands, and I think she is going to be a yes-if otherwise, she would not have left Murkowski by herself today. I think Flake has always been a no, and is play acting today so that he can cast the decisive vote tomorrow with a great charade of regret.

    I hope I am wrong, but I think the vote today was allowed to win because the Democrats already know they have 51 votes- they can kill it tomorrow, whereas today’s vote would not have been the end. The Democrats are going to kill here, and Manchin’s vote was to ensure tomorrow’s takes place.

  15. “The Democrats are going to kill here, and Manchin’s vote was to ensure tomorrow’s takes place.” [Yancey Ward @ 2:22 pm]

    That’s an interesting and plausible theory, but do you really think McConnell would have even scheduled the vote if he didn’t have a good hard 50 votes (Pence to break the tie)? What if it’s Steve Daines who, as the hero casts the deciding vote when he returns from his daughter’s wedding? This to point out the importance of a Republican senator in place of Tester in the mid-terms. I don’t think the Republicans would take that chance, but holding the vote open for Daines would certainly give them the chance to see how Collins, Flake, Murkowski and Manchin vote to reduce the possiblity of subterfuge by any one of them.

  16. “I doubt that those three achievements were the Democrats’ goals when Senator Feinstein first dropped Christine Blasey Ford’s letter on the world.”

    * * *
    Law of Unintended Consequences.
    Or Karma, take your pick.
    I hope Yancey is wrong, though!

  17. Meh on October 5, 2018 at 1:06 pm at 1:06 pm said:
    As much as it pains me to see Kavanaugh and his family go through this kind of hell, I could live in this moment a while longer.
    * * *
    This swings too close to the Left side of the pendulum arc for me.

    This part of the Carlson story [earlier post today) is one that chilled me the first time I heard it, and the failure by the Left, Womyn, and the Dems was one of the steps that ennabled the charges against Judge Kavanaugh.

    “Of course, crushing the innocent may also be the point of the exercise and we are seeing that. Last week a feminist called Emily Lindin announced on Twitter that she was quote, “not at all concerned about innocent men losing their jobs in the search for perpetrators of sexual harassment.” Quote, “If some innocent men’s reputation have to take a hit in the process of undoing the patriarchy, that is a price I’m absolutely willing to pay.””

    Think about the kind of pathological mindset that is “willing to pay the price” so long as someone else actually takes the hit. Socialism in a nutshell.

    As Michael Anton said (thanks for the reminder T ): Republicans (and conservatives and lots of other ethical people) are better than that.

    But since Kavanaugh has already paid the price, in full, he should be granted the just reward of his suffering.

  18. T: “This is, IMO, why Trump is so despised by the Never-Trump brigade, because he has no problem returning blow for blow. ”

    Sheepdogs get to take steps that are not possible for the sheep.
    And some herd animals just lick the stuffing out of the wolves on their own.

  19. I hope I am wrong, but I think the vote today was allowed to win because the Democrats already know they have 51 votes- they can kill it tomorrow, whereas today’s vote would not have been the end. The Democrats are going to kill here, and Manchin’s vote was to ensure tomorrow’s takes place.

    No clue, but I’ll offer an alternative hypothesis: Murkowski is straddling and attempting to induce further delay (which attempt did not succeed). She’s going to have to piss or get off the pot, which is not what she wanted to do.

  20. from PowerLine’s picks.

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2018/10/01/we-are-all-ayatollahs-now-2/

    BRENDAN O’NEILL
    EDITOR
    1st October 2018

    “We have just passed the 30th anniversary of the publication of Salman Rushdie’s The Satanic Verses. It would go on to become one of the most famous novels of the 20th century thanks in large part to what happened six months following its publication: Ayatollah Khomeini issued a fatwa against Rushdie and anyone involved in publishing his work. Rushdie and his ‘editors and publishers’ are ‘condemned to death’, said Khomeini on 14 February 1989.

    What is extraordinary 30 years after this allegedly blasphemous book first appeared, and close to 30 years after Khomeini issued his medieval decree, is that Khomeini has won. He is the moral victor in this despicable affair. His backward outlook carries more weight these days than the decent liberalism of secular intellectuals and literary figures like Rushdie.

    No, the Ayatollah’s foul call for the murder of Rushdie was not successful, and we must all remain grateful for that. But his belief that certain words and thoughts are unacceptable, unutterable, unbearable, and that anyone who holds them must be punished, is now the dominant outlook of our times.”

    * * *
    It’s hard not to see some of O’Neill’s complaints about the PC embrace of Islam as analogous to, or at least parallel, with the mobs crying for jihad against Judge Kavanaugh.

    Sometimes literally.

    https://libertyunyielding.com/2018/10/04/irans-ayatollah-khamenei-explains-to-western-women-how-to-solve-their-metoo-problem/

    “[Ed. – You guessed it: wear a hijab. Patrick Goodenough points out that this doesn’t seem to protect Iranian women all that well.”

    Some of the other benefits of the hijab:

    “Earlier U.N. reports noted that under Iran’s Islamic penal code, “a woman’s testimony in a court of law is regarded as half that of a man’s” and that abuses of female prisoners include forced marriages, sexual violence and torture, and the rape of virgins awaiting execution.”

  21. AP: “Think about the kind of pathological mindset that is ‘willing to pay the price’ so long as someone else actually takes the hit. Socialism in a nutshell.”

    I wouldn’t define socialism in this way, but I get your point and agree with it to a certain extent. Also–just to be clear–I would be very upset if Kavanaugh went through all this only to be denied a seat on the Supreme Court; that would be a horrible tragedy.

    T: “This is, IMO, why Trump is so despised by the Never-Trump brigade, because he has no problem returning blow for blow. ”

    I liked how Trump did his Batman thing on the stump a few days ago, basically saying that everyone should come after him because he can take it, and leave his nominee alone.

  22. Not sure what will happen tomorrow, but let’s suppose Kavanaugh is confirmed. If the left went off the rails with Trump’s election, what are they going to do with a confirmation? My guess is that plans are already in the works for some major civil disruptions starting Sunday. Don’t let your guard down even if he is confirmed. It ain’t over by a long shot.

  23. It’s over folks, Collins and Manchin have just announced that they will vote Yes tomorrow.

  24. I am not depressed at all, because I never expected from the majority of people any ability to think logically. This can be expected only from those who were specifically trained in this, like mathematicians, clergy or law school students. This no a coincidence that so many jurists are either Catholics or Jews: these two traditions have long established ways to train students exactly in this ability. Other schools of education barely pay any attention to such skills. It was a shocking experience for me in my early adulthood to acknowledge how illogical the thought processes of the most people, even of university students or even post-grads of humanities, usually are. But after this realization I lowered my expectations on this matter very drastically.

  25. Yes, Collins and Manchin announced their support meaning Flake’s flakiness is irrelevant.

    But no, it’s not over. There still is one day until the vote. The left is entirely unhinged. I hope security is extremely tight on all the Senators and their families. And, on the good judge himself.

    They will stop at nothing.

  26. As painful as this travesty has been to watch, I would like to remind us all that the only people among whom Kavanaugh’s reputation as been sullied are those who never would have been inclined to believe anything good about him anyway. Anyone who has a shred of reason left to them has stood by him and been profoundly troubled with the way our legal system has handled this situation.

  27. neo,

    Re:“I hope that vast swaths of the American public has learned what kind of people the Democrats in Congress are, now that their masks have slipped even more.”

    FDR: “He may be a bastard… but he’s our bastard.”

    Re: “People seem to have abandoned the idea not just of the rule of law but of logic itself. That depresses me—the extent of the abandonment.”

    Once you’ve based your life and world-view upon the rejection of basic aspects of reality and fully invested in an unsustainable collectivist ideology, then support for a ‘selective’ rule of law and rejection of any logic that rests upon acknowledgement of contrary fact(s) becomes necessary to support continued investment in that POV.

    They don’t want to know the truth because they already have it. It’s the secular dogma of our time.

  28. When Lindsey Graham turns macho man should have given the left a clue they went a bridge too far. But, nope, they are going to double down and believe #MeToo will produce the imaginary blue wave.

  29. CNN was on at work, so I was able to watch the tail-end of Susan Collins’ speech. She made a good speech, and that was a great opportunity to show the general public a serious and thoughtful side to these matters. And while she does get a lot of grief from some on the Right, in many important matters Senator Collins always comes through, and the simple reality is that she really is the best that one can hope for in a state like Maine that has gotten more liberal over the years. Besides that, seniority is always helpful for those in a small state, regardless of party affiliation (Collins is around #15 in the Senate, having been elected in 1996).

  30. Senator Feinstein first dropped Christine Blasey Ford’s letter on the world.

    According to the journalist who first reported on the existence of the letter:

    Feinstein’s staff did not leak the letter to The Intercept…Nor did she or her staff leak the existence of the letter to The Intercept. After our story, she turned it over to the FBI, which placed it in his background file, which meant that it became widely available and soon after it was leaked to CNN

  31. Geoffrey, I think you rightly see correlation between leftist ideology and immorality, but are wrong about direction of causation: such large slice of population embraces Socialism and other Neo-Marxist nonsense because they are immoral, to begin with, not the other way round. So they believe in robbing somebody else by a government to provide a free stuff to them, or in defending their perceived “rights” at somebody else expense.

  32. “This is, IMO, why Trump is so despised by the Never-Trump brigade, because he has no problem returning blow for blow.” – T

    I agree. On this “despised” point: I remember the extreme, apoplectic fury of friends of mine over Newt Gingrich being Speaker of the House decades ago. Why? There was an army of pundits and nitwits who demanded vitriol and published books.

    He was fat. He divorced his sick wife. Maybe he cheated on his wife, and so on.

    But they didn’t mention the real reason why citizens were supposed to hate him. Because he had the temerity to “take out” Dem. Speaker of the House, Jim Wright. Wright had written a vanity book and found a slippery way to skim dollars from the distribution of it. Gingrich filed an ethics violation charge against him, and he ultimately resigned from the House.

    If that wasn’t bad enough, he helped engineer a Republican takeover of the House for the first time in decades and became speaker himself. Plus Gingrich was a real conservative. What was the world coming to? Gingrich actually got a law passed that required every congressperson to obey all the laws that govern average citizens. Can you imagine?

    This is why he had to be destroyed.

    Remember these playbooks, because it will all be recycled again, the next time a major power base of the left is threatened.

  33. I still will have to be shown the actual vote. Collins did as I expected (and gave a fine speech in announcing, though she needs to learn the power of brevity). Manchin’s announcement was a surprise, but I think that perhaps his announcement was courtesy to Daines so that Daines can spend the entire weekend with his family- I would do it for a Dem if it were me and Larry Tribe were the nominee.

    As it stands, if Murkowski is no vote and Manchin is yes vote, then, technically Flake has no real power- Daines can always fly back and cast the needed vote. If Murkowski casts no vote at all and Manchin follows through with yes, then a Flake no doesn’t require Daines’ vote.

    Keep that jet warmed up is all I am saying.

  34. Sergey,

    I agree forgive the lack of clarity. I should have said, “Once you’ve based your life and world-view upon the rejection of basic aspects of reality and then, as a result fully invest in an unsustainable collectivist ideology…

    No morality divorced from reality can be valid, either immorality or amorality will result. Collectivist ideologies are both immoral and amoral, which probably accounts for their appeal to those who have already abandoned moral standards aligned with reality.

    “When people reject traditional religious beliefs, they merely go on to create some other faith-based schema to believe in; whether it be money or power or the various religions of the left; socialism, communism, feminism, environmentalism or anthropogenicism (who believe that humans are the sole root of all evil and thus are the cause of all earthly problems, from weather and climate anomalies to earthquakes, floods, volcanoes, tsunamis, hurricanes, and species extinction) etc. human nature demands something larger than itself to believe in.” unknown

  35. So now Lisa Murkowski is saying that although she is a “nay” she will vote “present” tomorrow because it will not change the final vote and Steve Daines need not fly back from his daughter’s wedding to cast the deciding vote.

    Hmmmm! What’s going on here?

    I agree with Yancy Ward, Daines better keep that plane warmed up.

  36. beth on October 5, 2018 at 4:39 pm at 4:39 pm said:
    As painful as this travesty has been to watch, I would like to remind us all that the only people among whom Kavanaugh’s reputation as been sullied are those who never would have been inclined to believe anything good about him anyway. Anyone who has a shred of reason left to them has stood by him and been profoundly troubled with the way our legal system has handled this situation.
    * * *
    Hard to explain Murkowski as anything other than voting with her constituents, but then so is Manchin, so I guess they cancel out.

    “I believe he is a good man,” she said, but “in my view, he’s not the best man for the court at this time.”

    * * *
    If not Kavanaugh, who?
    If not now, when?

  37. TommyJay on October 5, 2018 at 5:35 pm at 5:35 pm said:
    Gingrich actually got a law passed that required every congressperson to obey all the laws that govern average citizens. Can you imagine?
    * * *
    They need to pass one every year at the first session, because that one keeps getting mislaid.

    Remember the bait-and-switch about Obamacare applying to congressional staff, until suddenly it didn’t anymore?

  38. … I never expected from the majority of people any ability to think logically. This can be expected only from those who were specifically trained in this, like mathematicians, clergy or law school students. This no a coincidence that so many jurists are either Catholics or Jews: these two traditions have long established ways to train students exactly in this ability.

    Sergey: Though I hated it, I’m a product of the Catholic school system and I must admit it marked me in beneficial ways — especially that reason mattered and in life the stakes are high.

  39. The current US Supreme Court is five Catholics and three Jews. With Kavanaugh, fingers crossed, it will be six Catholics and three Jews.

    I don’t think this is freak coincidence.

  40. If Kavanaugh is confirmed, this is an epic failure for Democrats and the left. That’s why they fought so hard and dirty.

    Yet it’s made their prospects worse. As I read the polls, the Blue Wave is less than it might have been before Kavanaugh.

  41. “I believe he is a good man,” she said, but “in my view, he’s not the best man for the court at this time.”

    * * *
    “If not Kavanaugh, who?
    If not now, when?”
    AesopFan

    She’d happily vote for another Ginsburg… deceit followed by appeasement is her game.

    “I never expected from the majority of people any ability to think logically. This can be expected only from those who were specifically trained in this, like mathematicians, clergy or law school students.” Sergey

    Recent events disprove that mathematicians, clergy or law school students are definitive criteria for thinking logically. To be valid, objective and dispassionate consideration must be the basis for logical thinking. Logic, in and of itself can be used to support any position.

    Again, logic itself cannot examine the premise from which the ‘logic’ extends. Contrary fact(s) and reasoned examination of the logic’s founding premises are the primary means of dispute a chain of logic’s originating premise(s). To be “illogical” the chain of logic must be either incoherent, inherently self-contradictory or posits a conclusion incompatible with the logic’s originating premise(s).

    Incidentally, I’m neither a mathematician, a member of the clergy or ever a law student. I merely had a father who demonstrated clear, consistently coherent thinking.

  42. Geoffrey, exactly right about logic. Well said. And one of my own hobby-horses.

  43. Recent events disprove that mathematicians, clergy or law school students are definitive criteria for thinking logically.

    The counter-examples mount up and it is sad. Logic is a harsh mistress.

    I recently read a biography of Kurt Godel, the premier logician of the 20th century. He was at the Princeton Institute of Advanced Studies. He took regular walks with Einstein.

    Which was right. Godel was, truly, one of Einstein’s few peers on the planet. Godel had rocked the foundations of mathematics as surely as Einstein had for physics, though far fewer people were aware of Godel’s achievements.

    Godel took it hard when Einstein died and harder when his wife died. He had developed an irrational fear he would be poisoned. Without his wife to prepare his meals, Godel wasted away. He died of malnutrition, weighing 65 lbs.

    I find it hard to understand however smart people may be or seem to be, they can be absolutely bonkers otherwise.

  44. So now the RINOs know that 2 of them have to vote no despite claiming they’d vote yes.
    And they have almost 24 hours to draw straws for who is to take the fall for “the cause”.

  45. Geoffrey, I never asserted that logic in itself is sufficient for clear thinking, only that it is necessary. But this necessary skill is sadly rare in general population. Even the basic difference between the necessary and the sufficient conditions evades the most of the people. Logic is a robotic device inherently incapable for moral and value judgement and also incapable to validate its own premises, which was the very point of Goedel Theorem. These foundations are transcendental and exactly this makes moral and religion absolutely necessary for common sense and valid judgment. You was very lucky to have a father with clear thinking, but 95% of people lacks this advantage. They need a methodical schooling based on valid philosophy, and the present education system lacks it and so it is a pipeline producing self-assured idiots.

  46. Given what has happened with Kavanaugh, who is a moderate, can you imagine what is going to happen when Ginsburg goes, and she’ll be going soon.

    Kavanaugh will not likely make a huge difference in the court’s decisions, but whoever Trump nominates to replace Ginsburg will very likely be a lot more conservative, and will make a much more conservative shift in the court’s decisions.

    Right now, from what I’ve seen, Ginsburg is hanging over the edge of the cliff, just grimly holding on with her nails.

    A recent picture of her at a conference has her so bent over that she is apparently looking at the ground as her normal posture. Moreover, yesterday it was reported that, while she was discussing some issue, she forgot what the 14th Amendment said, until someone in the audience passed up a pocket Constitution for her to read and refresh her memory.

    Time to go.

  47. It appears that the Democrats are not playing a long game.

    Just as with Harry Reid’s disastrous decision to get rid of the 60 vote minimum for judicial confirmations for a short term gain, I think that the Democrats have made another huge mistake here in their tactics, and in the level and intensity of their opposition to Kavanaugh; a decision that they think will benefit them in the short term with their more leftist supporters, but will be a disaster for them in the long term.

    By coming out so hard and violently against Kavanaugh–by pulling out all the stops–they may well have swing several mid-term races they were likely to win toward the Republicans, likely giving Republicans a larger Senate majority, thus making Trump’s next Supreme Court nominee easier to confirm.

    Having done what they’ve done in this instance, where do the Democrats have to go in “resisting” the next nomination? It would seem towards more and more violence, and more towards the kinds of violent and turbulent political scenes we’ve seen in South America and elsewhere.

    If this happens, it then becomes a matter for law enforcement.

    Moreover it appears that the vitriol, lying, and other repugnant, over the top behavior of the Democrats, the MSM, and their violent allies are turning a lot of former Democrats and Independents into more votes for Republicans and more support for Trump.

  48. such large slice of population embraces Socialism and other Neo-Marxist nonsense because they are immoral to begin with, not the other way round. So they believe in robbing somebody else by a government to provide free stuff to them, or in defending their perceived “rights” at somebody else expense –Sergey

    Bingo.

    but 95% of people lacks this advantage. They need a methodical schooling based on valid philosophy, and the present education system lacks it and so it is a pipeline producing self-assured idiots –Sergey

    Double bingo. My experience is that American education began to drop more traditional practices, which included learning many discrete facts and used rote work and repetition, during the 1960s.

    In junior high school, our social studies teacher drilled us on facts and had a clever system of rewards-and-mock-penalties that aided the process. In high school, our youngish American History teacher told us it was much less important to know specific facts but much more important to know the concepts.

    It is easy to make the concepts whatever you want them to be. Teach Howard Zinn, cherry-pick a couple facts to make his concepts sound plausible, and you’re done. Easy and there’s no drill for students to complain about either.

    But concepts can only be reached when starting from the facts. Then you can apply analysis and logic and reach a conclusion. Our public school systems can’t be bothered with that anymore, and that is a huge reason why there are so many people who never developed the capacity to think critically. Few colleges, staffed mostly by lefty fantasists, demand it either; they can’t, it would challenge the ideology.

    In junior high school, we had to learn grammar and then diagram sentences. An exercise in simple analysis. By the time I had children, that whole direction was waved off as boring and unnecessary even by the most competitive magnet school in Philadelphia. Even spelling was optional; it might interfere with the flow of composition writing.

    Last point on this — my experience of these changes occurred in the 1960s, as I said. That was a major financial peak after American society had steadily built prosperity through the 1950s. Prosperity makes a lot of hard work seem unnecessary, certainly undesirable by most, and of course that is how a cycle works; each peak contains the seeds of its own undoing.

    American society is at a far higher peak of prosperity today and all we have to do is look at the three bubbles over the past 20 years in the financial markets, tended so carefully by the Federal Reserve, to see the extreme. That is a long time for excesses to build, socially as well as financially. So beware the downside.

  49. Snow on Pine,

    “By coming out so hard and violently against Kavanaugh–by pulling out all the stops–…

    Having done what they’ve done in this instance, where do the Democrats have to go in “resisting” the next nomination? It would seem towards more and more violence, and more towards the kinds of violent and turbulent political scenes we’ve seen in South America and elsewhere.”

    Yes. Fanaticism abhors compromise. The deeper the fanaticism, the less it can abide pragmatism. A key component of fanaticism is an insatiable lust for the object of its desire.

  50. Kai, I’ll have you know that we, in my one-room school in the fifties, started learning to diagram sentences in 3rd grade! *snooty grin*

    I think it was around 1970 that I started hearing the New Theory of Education being quoted regularly around campus: “You don’t have to know it, you only have to know how to look it up.”

    This is what the Professoriate had come up with as a serious doctrine. I was indignant over such stupidity then, and I’m still indignant about it now.

    You’re quite right. If you ain’t got the facts, you ain’t got zilch.

  51. “In junior high school, we had to learn grammar and then diagram sentences. An exercise in simple analysis. By the time I had children, that whole direction was waved off as boring and unnecessary . . . .” [Kai Acker @ 10:25 am]

    Me too, and I hated it at the time. However it came in very useful in a completely unexpected venue: foreign language study. I found that once I reached the level of simple foreign language sentences, I could mentally diagram a sentence to help me match artlcle and adjectival endings to the gender of the noun (among other uses). I still find it quite useful today when I write.

    Actually, I’m quite surprised by not only how much I still remember from elementary and high school, but by how useful much of that information remains for me to this day.

  52. I loved diagramming sentences. I was very very very good at it.

    I would have no idea how to do it now, though.

    My teachers were very old, even then. I think the majority of them were born in the 1800s.

  53. we, in my one-room school in the fifties, started learning to diagram sentences in 3rd grade! *snooty grin* –Julie near Chicago

    Well, you win that round!

    Another aspect that’s changed for the worse is the study of Latin. I had four years of high school Latin. It wasn’t required, but many students took it, not just Honor Roll types. When my kids went to their Philadelphia magnet school, it was a year of play-Latin. They learned a little bit about Latin, from an ancient teacher on the verge of retirement, but never did serious conjugations or declensions.

    As T says about grammar, above, Latin was a big help to me in understanding other languages and also as a logical exercise in its own right. Logic could unsnarl the different word placements within sentences and turn them into the coherent thought they were expressing. In fact, Latin’s logic has helped me as a tool toward a number of other puzzle-solving functions, including analyzing The Racing Form. I’ll bet students today don’t even read The Racing Form. That’s how bad it’s become, Julie.

  54. FWIW my Henle Latin Grammar from high school sits on my bookshelf right next to my Latin-English dictionary.

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