Who killed Khashoggi?
[Go to end of post for UPDATE]
I’ve been avoiding writing about the Khashoggi story for the simple reason that the truth—which is often elusive—seems even more elusive than usual in this matter.
From moment I first read about it, my gut told me the story just didn’t hang together.
But that doesn’t mean I have a clue as to what really happened to Khashoggi. It’s even possible it was exactly as the Turks have stated—Saudis came to the Saudi embassy in Istanbul and murdered Khashoggi and then dismembered and hid or destroyed the body.
But the problem is that no actor in this story is believable, and no one seems laudable. It’s like an Agatha Christie novel in which too many people have motives to either kill the alleged victim, to accuse others of killing him, or even to pretend that he’s been murdered when he has not. They all have suspect histories and motives.
Turkey’s motive would be to hurt the Saudis and especially to damage the relatively good Saudi relationship with the US (at least, that’s the motive that immediately occurred to me; there may be plenty of others). The Saudi motive would be obvious—Khashoggi has criticized their regime (although there are also additional possibilities).
But the Saudis are not stupid. Why would they murder him in their embassy in Turkey, where they can assume the Turks have cameras and everything is recorded? That makes no sense to me.
At first I thought I might be alone in my skepticism about the story, but as time has gone by I’ve seen more and more people sharing that skepticism. If you want to read some of the better articles expressing doubt, see this at PJ and this at American Thinker, as well as this especially good one at the Federalist.
The latter asks a very relevant question about Khashoggi, whom the MSM is often portraying as a journalist, and a pro-reform one at that:
Khashoggi writes a column for the Washington Post and worked at a number of Saudi media organizations, print and broadcast. Broadly speaking, he is a journalist, as the U.S. press is describing him—with the caveat that most Arab journalists primarily serve the political masters who pay and protect them, and often represent the interests of intelligence services.
Khashoggi was an adviser to former Saudi intelligence chief Turki al-Faisal when he was ambassador to London, then Washington. Khashoggi reportedly joined the Muslim Brotherhood in the 1970s and continues to advocate for political Islam. He called the late Saudi dissident Osama Bin Laden a friend and mourned his death. It appears that Khasshogi may have been something like Riyadh’s back channel to al-Qaeda, at least prior to 9/11.
So how did a former Saudi official with ties to intelligence services, connections to the Muslim Brotherhood, and a long history with a terrorist responsible for nearly 3,000 deaths on U.S. soil obtain permanent resident status?
More here from Foreign Policy:
Twitter was alight with frightened and outraged fellow journalists, analysts recounting a litany of alleged Saudi crimes, politicians demanding accountability, activists with maudlin paeans to a now apparently martyred critic, Saudis arguing that Khashoggi disappeared because he got cold feet over his impending marriage to a Turkish woman, and a few voices cautioning that the declarations of known Justice and Development Party (AKP) provocateurs and unnamed “Turkish security sources” should be taken with a grain of salt.
The Turks say they have lots of recorded documentation of Khashoggi’s murder, but so far have released absolutely nothing. And so this (from that Foreign Policy piece) is relevant:
Everything that everyone has said about Jamal Khashoggi to date remains speculation.
More:
It is surprising that there are so many who seem all too willing to accept the version of events that are attributed to Turkish security sources. These claims were uncorroborated—and remain so—but were quickly accepted as fact. This does not mean that they are untrue, but Turkey is a country with a poor record of press freedom, and its leaders and their supporters have embraced disinformation as a political strategy and a tool of foreign policy.
My sentiments exactly, except for the “surprising” part. It is actually unsurprising, because the US press has become completely untrustworthy itself. The MSM is probably embracing these stories for a reason, and my guess is the reason is that they ultimately think it will hurt Trump. Also, sensational stories of murder and dismemberment sell papers and draw clicks. So why wait till we know more?
It isn’t often that I agree with anything in the New Republic, but I certainly agree with this:
Yet there are also two head-scratching aspects of this thesis. First: Why kill Khashoggi in the Saudi consulate? Surely anyone involved would have realized that if he disappeared in such circumstances fingers would point to [Saudi head] bin Salman…
Which brings us to the second puzzling aspect of this case: Khashoggi was not a militant. He led no mass movement. According to some on Twitter who say they knew him well, Khashoggi did not even like to describe himself as a dissident. How exactly was he a threat to the Saudi state or to its main man?
And here’s an article from the Atlantic making some points with which I also agree:
The nations that gain from this affair are two regional enemies of Saudi Arabia: Qatar and Turkey. Officials from the latter have leaked virtually all the graphic details of the killing: that Khashoggi was dragged from one room to another; that the moment of his death was videotaped; that his corpse was hewn with a bone saw brought for the occasion. These details suggest a plan conceived and executed by professional slaughterers. But the details of this operation raise macabre practical questions. Why the bone saw, a piece of specialized surgical equipment?…I can assure you that a saw from Home Depot will hack apart a mammal just as effectively, and is cheaper and much easier to explain. These official sources all portray the killing as cold-blooded (“like Pulp Fiction,” said one cinephile source), with every detail planned, to maximum psychopathic effect. Khashoggi had long-standing sympathies with the Muslim Brotherhood, which now finds its greatest support from Qatar and Turkey. Now those two governments have an effective wedge issue to divide the United States from Saudi Arabia, and extraordinary evidence that MbS is as sinister, and perhaps also as buffoonish, as Qaddafi or Saddam. This is the best week for Qatar and Turkey in some time.
That is part of what puzzled me from the start, and I have one thing to add about why this grisly dismembership scenario might possibly be fabricated. Not only does it make the Saudis seem barbaric, but it provides the Turks with a perfect excuse to not produce a body and thus prove that Khashoggi is dead.
The writer of that Atlantic piece thinks Khashoggi’s death may have been the result of a botched abduction. There’s no way to know at this point, and no way to know that he is even dead. In an admittedly far-fetched scenario, Khashoggi might be faking his death to get Saudi Arabia’s leaders in trouble. He certainly doesn’t lack the motivation for that. And he wouldn’t have to stay in hiding forever, either; he could assume another identity.
From France, about Turkey:
As alarm over Khashoggi’s wellbeing and whereabouts mounts, Turkey – the world’s biggest jailer of journalists – has been put in the peculiar position of championing the cause of a dissident commentator and former newspaper editor.
But the Turkish allegations are being released via a series of leaks and statements by unelected officials followed by an apparent downplaying of the accusations by Turkey’s President Recep Tayyip Erdogan – a man not known for his measured discourse…
The contradictory claims have sparked a diplomatic spat between the two Sunni powerhouses that could shake up the way business is done in one of the world’s most volatile regions. It also threatens to pit a seasoned, irascible politician against a brash young prince who has little experience encountering dissent…
But Khashoggi is also a well-connected Saudi insider and one-time advisor to the kingdom’s former intelligence chief. So while his disappearance shocked, but did not surprise Saudi dissidents and experts, Aktay’s revelations about his murder by a hit-squad chilled them to the bone.
Hours later though, after news alerts of the alleged killing went out across the world, Erdogan appeared to downplay the murder allegations. Expressing a hope that Khashoggi would emerge unharmed, the Turkish president told reporters, “I still have good expectations. We hope not to come across an undesirable situation about missing Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi.”…
On Monday, Erdogan appeared to up the discourse during a visit to Hungary, but he stopped short of providing evidence into any of the Turkish official or non-official claims, calling instead for patience until an investigation was concluded. “We have to get an outcome from this investigation as soon as possible. The consulate officials cannot save themselves by simply saying ‘he has left’,” Erdogan told a news conference in Budapest. “If he left, you have to prove it with footage. Those who ask Turkish authorities where he is should ask what happened.”
Meanwhile unnamed Turkish officials continued to provide leaks and statements to the press…
The tensions between Turkey and Saudi Arabia go back to an ideological rift in the Sunni Muslim world between the Muslim Brotherhood, an Islamist movement that participates in the democratic process and calls for the political representation of all believers. Saudi Arabia’s ruling House of Saud however considers the group a terrorist organisation and views the Brotherhood as a threat to the official Wahabism espoused by the kingdom.
When I first read the allegations about Khashoggi’s alleged murder, an old nursery rhyme floated around in my head. Remember “Who Killed Cock Robin?” I have revised it just a tiny bit (and shortened it a lot) to express the sense of mystery about what’s going on here:
Who killed Khashoggi?
Not I, said the Saudis,
with my 15 assassins,
I didn’t kill Khashoggi.
Who saw him die?
I, said the camera-Spy,
with my little eye,
I saw him die.
Who’ll dig his grave?
No need, say the Turks;
no body, no work.
No need for a grave.
Who’ll be the clerk?
I, said the WaPo,
although we’re in the dark,
We’ll be the clerk.
UPDATE 5:20 PM: Now CNN reports that the Saudis are getting ready to announce that Khashoggi was accidentally killed (or accidentally died) in the course of an interrogation and/or attempted abduction by rogue players who were not acting on behalf of the Saudi government.
Time will tell whether this announcement is ever made by the Saudis. I no longer trust CNN’s reports that someone is about to do something; they have too often proven wrong, although of course sometimes they are correct. We don’t have the names of the people supposedly telling CNN it will happen. And even if such an announcement is made, it doesn’t mean the Saudis are telling the truth.
I wonder whether we will ever learn what actually happened. I tend to doubt it.
This story provides yet further proof of the media’s obsession with stories about the media (much as Hollywood loves movies about the film industry), since no rational person could argue that the curious tale of a murdered (and not especially admirable) Saudi journalist deserves more attention from the MSM than the Saudi atrocities being committed in Yemen.
I’m guessing the dude really is dead, and really did die in the Saudi embassy.
Everyone’s forgetting a very important person: King Salman of Saudi Arabia. Sure, he lets his son Mohammed bin-Salman run the government, and play at reform, but Salman himself is still the actual king.
My guess is that while the Prince understands the need to take a few hits from the press to show how enlightened you are, his father does not. Something Kashoggi said or wrote pissed off the King, and he decided to have the guy whacked, old-school.
Either that, or they hauled him in to rough him up a little, and things got out of hand and he died of a heart attack or stroke, so they decided to dispose of the body.
What doesn’t seem likely is that Prince Mohammed, who is notoriously not an idiot, decided to do something which could not benefit him or the Kingdom in any way.
The above by you, Neo, is actually the first I’ve read about this business, and I don’t feel like I know any more now than before. It’s a story I’ve avoided and now will go back to avoiding unless and until something is definitively known… or if Saudi Arabia and Turkey go to war.
Lee Smith has a pretty comprehensive rundown of the questions about this at ‘The Federalist’.
No time to find link right now.
“The MSM is probably embracing these stories for a reason, and my guess is the reason is that they ultimately think it will hurt Trump.” neo
I share that guess.
I’ve been disturbed by the calls for Trump to do something. And IF Trump was sincere when he said that “severe punishment” would result if it was determined that the Saudi’s murdered Khashoggi, then I think such action by Trump would prove to be counter-productive for America. Not to mention that Khashoggi is/was not an American citizen and if murdered, it happened in another sovereign nation.
I’m not a big fan of realpolitik but I do think there are times when it makes sense. This is IMO one of those times. Just some forethought as to possible consequences demonstrates why;
Say hard evidence emerges that the Saudi Prince ordered the murder.
Say Trump imposes “severe punishment” on the Saudis.
Say that punishment leads to the fall of the Saudi gov…
What would replace it?
In M.E. Islamic societies, the sole choice is between a “strongman” ruler and a ‘religious’ theocracy…
Strongmen may wear the iron fist within a velvet glove but when push comes to shove, the iron reveals itself… for confirmation, just ask restive Palestinians in Jordan.
Islam’s two ‘holiest’ sites, Mecca and Medina lie within Saudi Arabia and there is a strong fundamentalist contingent in Saudi Arabian society. So, it’s certainly possible that a Sunni theocracy could replace a Saudi strongman toppled through US interference.
Just what we need, a new Sunni version of Iran…
Welcome to the real word where actions often have unintended consequences and, where the often burned learn to be careful for what they wish…
Yes, the Prince is ruthless but at least so far, he’s not acting ruthlessly toward us. And in Islamic societies, ruthlessness toward your enemies is a survival mechanism.
There’s nothing for us to gain here by interjecting ourselves and lots to potentially lose.
Griffin:
I already gave the link in my post.
The only thing that makes sense in this strange and sordid tale is that a man who considered himself a “friend” of Osama bin-Laden, and who “mourned his death”, writes for the WAPO.
Neo.
Whoops, sorry didn’t see that was just scanning your article right after reading his.
On a side note on the new site the color contrast for me anyway is not much different for the embedded links and sometimes I don’t even notice some of them.
A breaking headline, just out on Lucianne, says that the Saudi government is about to admit that Khashoggi was killed in an “interrogation gone bad,” but claim that this interrogation was not “cleared,” and presumably some sort of rogue, out of control action.
I’ve just added an UPDATE at the end of the post. It goes like this:
Now CNN reports that the Saudis are getting ready to announce that Khashoggi was accidentally killed (or accidentally died) in the course of an interrogation and/or attempted abduction by rogue players who were not acting on behalf of the Saudi government.
Time will tell whether this announcement is ever made by the Saudis. I no longer trust CNN’s reports that someone is about to do something; they have too often proven wrong, although of course sometimes they are correct. We don’t have the names of the people supposedly telling CNN it will happen. And even if such an announcement is made, it doesn’t mean the Saudis are telling the truth.
I wonder whether we will ever learn what actually happened. I tend to doubt it.
Snow on Pine, it’s a CNN report, so I’ll wait.
I can’t get excited by someone as sleazy as Khashoggi even if he is a sometime WaPo employee. The story does appear to have legitimate geopolitical ramifications.
The slightly similar story that caught my interest was the brutal rape and murder of journalist Viktoria Marinova in Bulgaria. Her body was found in a public park. For some reason the German gov. was all over the story within several hours, claiming they were certain the crime had nothing to do with her work. Days later they claim to have caught the perp in Germany.
Her work was exposing the corruption of EU officials, and her TV show only got one episode out before her murder. Some believe two other eastern European journalists were murdered for similar reasons within the last year.
This smells of Erdogan.
A couple of other things to note:
He met his much younger, Turkish fiancee in May.
One rumor I read was that he had apparently wanted to go to the US to the Saudi consulate/embassy there but was recommended by someone in Turkey to just go to the consulate there.
Goldman/Spengler says he was a spy and member of the Muslim Brotherhood. https://pjmedia.com/spengler/german-press-reveals-saudi-spook-saga-behind-khashoggi-disappearance/
CNN has a editorial “exposing” Trump as a Saudi puppet because he reported that King Salman told him that the Saudis had nothing to do with the hit. Trump did not say anything to indicate that he accepted Salman’s story, but repeated that he had sent Mike Pompeo to investigate the matter. No matter how low CNN gets, I am always amazed when it descends even lower.
P.S. How can Trump be a Saudi puppet when he’s a Russian puppet? Is dual puppetry allowed?
Didn’t we just have a journalist fake his own death in May of this year?
Why yes, we did.
People say the internet is forever, but our chattering classes can’t remember earlier than last month.
Thanks for the very complete picture of the story as we know it today – which is: we still know nothing about what happened to Khashoggi except what Turkey tells us — and we are expected to #BelieveTurks, for some cryptic reason; and people who read the MSM know nothing about Khashoggi himself except that he is missing and presumed dead — by people who have a vested interest in embarrassing MbS and Trump.
Staying tuned, but we may not see the ending episode of this cliff-hanger until after the season break.
Because he says things like…
…I don’t he needs any help in embarrassing himself.
Thankfully SecDef Mattis is still there to disregard Trump order’s.
The WSJ has a report this morning similar to the CNN report, presumably with some of the same sources.
I just realised my Bosch 12 volt sawzall type tool has more uses that I had previously considered. 😉
I thought the Khashoggi name sounded familiar. Jamal’s uncle was Adnan Khashoggi. Here’s a Wiki thumbnail on him,
Manju: So Trump puts forth a possible explanation which others on this very blog comments section have suggested, and you think that’s proof he’s a puppet? I think you have a bad case of conclusion first, evidence after.
Since embassies and consultates are virtually public spaces, it strains the brain that the Saudis would perform any nasty deen in such a location.
The breadcrumbs would obviously lead straight to Riyadh.
Yet deniability is of the essence for such wet ops.
Trimegistus:
Don’t blame poor Manju. He/she is an apparatchik who suffers from an inability to write anything other than the party line.
Let remember the sotry of
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/04/AR2010110407989_2.html?sid=ST2010110407718&noredirect=on
Also the BIG Lie
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/04/AR2010110407989_2.html?sid=ST2010110407718&noredirect=on
Manju if Trump is so stupid then what does that make Hillary who had nearly all the media on her side, many Republicans opposed to Trump and outspent him 2 or 3 to 1 but still lost to him? Or you who are trolling him here for minwage?
What surprise(s|d) me is that Turkey admits to not only surveilling the KSA embassy but also bugging said embassy. It happens most everywhere against everyone’s embassy, but that is kept quiet, as openly acknowledging such could viewed as an act of war by the host country.
Thankfully SecDef Mattis is still there to disregard Trump order’s.
That sort of sh!t gets you a letter of resignation on your desk.
I R A Darth Aggie on October 16, 2018 at 4:39 pm at 4:39 pm said:
What surprise(s|d) me is that Turkey admits to not only surveilling the KSA embassy but also bugging said embassy. It happens most everywhere against everyone’s embassy, but that is kept quiet, as openly acknowledging such could viewed as an act of war by the host country.
* * *
Indeed.
Remember this dust-up?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-usa-spying/german-paper-says-obama-aware-of-spying-on-merkel-since-2010-idUSBRE99Q09F20131027
Nice to know that Stephen reads my comments …
AesopFan on October 16, 2018 at 1:07 am at 1:07 am said:
Thanks for the very complete picture of the story as we know it today – which is: we still know nothing about what happened to Khashoggi except what Turkey tells us — and we are expected to #BelieveTurks, for some cryptic reason; and people who read the MSM know nothing about Khashoggi himself except that he is missing and presumed dead — by people who have a vested interest in embarrassing MbS and Trump.
* * *
OCTOBER 16, 2018
HMM: What the media aren’t telling you about Jamal Khashoggi….
It seems possible that Khashoggi was murdered in order to embarrass Crown Prince bin Salman rather than to protect him.
Posted by Stephen Green at 2:35 pm
Another conspiracy theory Americans want to talk about, I see. And as usual, there are more than 2 factions fighting over it.
This isn’t something the MSM or its American drones and slaves that read the MSM as their bible scriptural gospel, is capable of resolving. That is because those who cannot tell the difference between light and shadow in the conspiracy world, will hit the same bottleneck on this conspiracy.